THE STATE OF THE DEAD - WHERE ARE THEY?

[Reformer]

The State Of The Dead - Where Are They?
[Disembodied Spirits]

Lately, I have been rehashing and researching this subject. Having submitted a great deal of written material on this topic in years past, and considering how current the theme is in many quarters, I thought it time to review and revisit the topic again. So let us begin by inquiring, "Where are the dead?" Are disembodied spirits—that part of man that separates from the body at death—"asleep" or alert in the unseen world?

To address these questions, we should evaluate the Greek term "Hades," as used eleven times in the new covenant Scriptures, although not always translated "Hades." The passages are found in Matthew 11:23, 16:18, Luke 10:15, 16:23, Acts 2:27 & 31, Revelation 1:18, 6:8, & 20:13-14.

During my research, I relied heavily on biblical scholars, all of whom are well versed in the Greek New Testament. Scholarly Campbell says, "Hades should never have been translated 'hell,' as is the case in the common versions." He describes "Hades" as "the receptacle of all the dead, [where] there are rewards and punishments." He goes on to say, "Jesus and the converted thief were together in Hades, while they were together in Paradise." As you recall, Jesus told the thief that "today you will be with me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43).

Where did Jesus' spirit go that day? We know His body was placed inside a tomb, but what about His spirit, the real Jesus? To locate the place, we need only to turn to Acts 2:27 and 31. Peter, quoting from David, says, "...because you will not abandon me to Hades." Many versions employ "grave," but that is a translational mistake. In Psalm 16:8-11, from where the quotation is lifted, "grave" is used and it comes from the Hebrew "sheol." However, "sheol" carries a number of renderings, according to scholarly Adam Clarke in his commentary on Job 7:9, and includes grave, state of the dead, Hades, Hell, and sometimes a deep pit.

The Greek "Hades," on the other hand, carries one basic meaning, namely, the unseen abode of departed spirits, both good and evil. This is precisely how Campbell uses the term. He writes, "For 'Hades' is represented as the receptacle of separated spirits—whether good or evil—whether happy or tormented; in which there is a Paradise, an 'Abraham's bosom,' and in which there is a 'tartarus,' separated from it by an impassable gulf" ("Hades," Millennial Harbinger, pgs. 703-7, 1856).

It is interesting that Campbell, to support his view that Hades contains both good and evil spirits, refers to Samuel who told wicked King Saul when he (Samuel) was called out of Hades, "Tomorrow you and your sons will be with me" (I Samuel 28:19). "With me?" Where? In Hades, the unseen abode of departed spirits. Samuel was not speaking of the common grave.

Briefly, let's return to Acts, chapter two, verse 31. "Seeing what was ahead, he [David] spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he [Jesus] was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his body see decay." Again, some versions render "grave" in the place of "Hades," but that is incorrect. Now note: The real Jesus, His spirit, was not left in the unseen abode of departed spirits, nor did His body see decay—two parts, body and spirit. This is easily understood when we recall that Jesus, at the point of death, surrendered His spirit to the Father. James says, "The body without the spirit is dead"—two parts (2:26). Jesus' spirit returned to His Father. God the Father delivered His Son's spirit to the Paradise side of Hades, and there it remained until it was reunited with His body.

But what about "soul?" Paul names three parts of man—spirit, soul, and body (I Thess. 5:23). In the Greek, "soul" refers to "life" or the biological/physical entity of man. Although "spirit" and "soul" are occasionally used interchangeably, the core translation of "soul" is "a living being." The NIV says "man became a living being"—a "soul," in other words. (Gen. 2:7). When Jesus died on the cross, He committed His spirit to His Father. Nothing is said about His committing His soul. So, yes, it seems "breath of life" may be substituted in the place of "soul" (Gen. 2:7).

The Scriptures seem to confirm there's an intermediate state for the dead, both good and evil. And we're talking about active, alert, and live spirits, not "sleeping spirits." At the resurrection of the righteous, the real us will be reunited with our transformed bodies and taken to Heaven where we will reign with God throughout eternity (Phil. 3:21). The wicked will be cast out of God's presence and annihilated/lost forever.

In conclusion, let us clearly understand the central part of a person is his/her spirit. Do you recall what occurred when Jesus said to the child who had died? His said, "Child, arise!" Then the passage reads, "And her spirit returned, and she got up at once" (Luke 8:54-55). Her spirit was the authentic child.

[dpr]

Amazing... a LEAD quickly to MEN'S DOCTRINES instead of what The Word of God actually teaches about our makeup God created us with, and what happens when our flesh body dies.

1. Hebrews 4:12 reveals God created man born in the flesh with 3 parts, a spirit, a soul, and flesh.

2. In Matthew 10:28, Lord Jesus said for us to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but NOT our SOUL, but to fear Him Who can destroy both our body and soul in the future "lake of fire" (rendered geena there which is put for the lake of fire at the end of Rev.20).

3. What Lord Jesus said in Matthew 10:28 means simply, is that our SOUL is NOT MADE UP OF MATERIAL MATTER. The doctrine that our soul part is a part of living material matter is an old Jewish doctrine of the Orthodox Jews. They believe Genesis 2:7 when God breathed the Breath of Life into Adam's flesh nostrils, and Adam became a material earthly matter living soul. Thus they wrongly believe that when our flesh dies, our Soul dies with our flesh, and both... must be raised at the future resurrection. That's NOT what God's Word teaches though.

4. In 2 Corinthians 5, Apostle Paul taught that if our flesh body were suddenly dissolved, we STILL HAVE ANOTHER BODY, not made with hands (meaning non-material-matter), from God, eternal in the Heavens. Paul said that in the present tense, like we already have that spirit body dwelling inside us.

5. In Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, Solomon revealed there is an invisible "silver cord" that attaches our spirit with our flesh body, and if that silver cord is loosed (i.e., severed), then our flesh body goes back to the earthly material elements of matter where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. That spirit old Jewish tradition tries to argue simply means a spirit force that goes back to God, and has nothing to do with the individual person. No, that spirit is the spirit of the actual person who goes back to God at flesh death, appearing in the Heavenly dimension.

6. In 1 Corinthians 15, Apostle Paul revealed there exists TWO separate dimensions of existence, this earthly dimension, and the Heavenly dimension. Paul was specific that a body of corruption (flesh) cannot inherit that dimension of the Heavenly. And Paul said that as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

7. In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul specifically DEFINED that "image of the heavenly" as a "spiritual body". That is the "spirit" idea that Ecclesiastes 12 was pointing to which goes back to God when our flesh body dies. Paul taught that when Jesus comes on the "last trump", all still alive on earth will be suddenly 'changed'... to that "spiritual body" at the twinkling of an eye.

8. The resurrection is NOT to a new flesh body. It is to the "spiritual body", which is the body type of the world to come, according to Paul.

9. The "spirits in prison" of 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4 are NOT demons. They are the spirits of dead people that lived back to the time of Noah like that Scripture states. And per mention of them in 1 Peter 4, it shows The Gospel was preached to those dead also, so they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but LIVE according to God in the spirit, meaning in the Heavenly dimension. Jesus fulfilled this at His resurrection when He preached The Gospel to those "spirits in prison", which was prophecy in Isaiah 42:7 that He would lead the prisoners out of the darkness of Satan's prison house.

[4WD]

The State Of The Dead - Where Are They?
[Disembodied Spirits]

Lately, I have been rehashing and researching this subject. Having submitted a great deal of written material on this topic in years past, and considering how current the theme is in many quarters, I thought it time to review and revisit the topic again. So let us begin by inquiring, "Where are the dead?" Are disembodied spirits—that part of man that separates from the body at death—"asleep" or alert in the unseen world?

To address these questions, we should evaluate the Greek term "Hades," as used eleven times in the new covenant Scriptures, although not always translated "Hades." The passages are found in Matthew 11:23, 16:18, Luke 10:15, 16:23, Acts 2:27 & 31, Revelation 1:18, 6:8, & 20:13-14.

During my research, I relied heavily on biblical scholars, all of whom are well versed in the Greek New Testament. Scholarly Campbell says, "Hades should never have been translated 'hell,' as is the case in the common versions." He describes "Hades" as "the receptacle of all the dead, [where] there are rewards and punishments." He goes on to say, "Jesus and the converted thief were together in Hades, while they were together in Paradise." As you recall, Jesus told the thief that "today you will be with me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43).

Where did Jesus' spirit go that day? We know His body was placed inside a tomb, but what about His spirit, the real Jesus? To locate the place, we need only to turn to Acts 2:27 and 31. Peter, quoting from David, says, "...because you will not abandon me to Hades." Many versions employ "grave," but that is a translational mistake. In Psalm 16:8-11, from where the quotation is lifted, "grave" is used and it comes from the Hebrew "sheol." However, "sheol" carries a number of renderings, according to scholarly Adam Clarke in his commentary on Job 7:9, and includes grave, state of the dead, Hades, Hell, and sometimes a deep pit.

The Greek "Hades," on the other hand, carries one basic meaning, namely, the unseen abode of departed spirits, both good and evil. This is precisely how Campbell uses the term. He writes, "For 'Hades' is represented as the receptacle of separated spirits—whether good or evil—whether happy or tormented; in which there is a Paradise, an 'Abraham's bosom,' and in which there is a 'tartarus,' separated from it by an impassable gulf" ("Hades," Millennial Harbinger, pgs. 703-7, 1856).

It is interesting that Campbell, to support his view that Hades contains both good and evil spirits, refers to Samuel who told wicked King Saul when he (Samuel) was called out of Hades, "Tomorrow you and your sons will be with me" (I Samuel 28:19). "With me?" Where? In Hades, the unseen abode of departed spirits. Samuel was not speaking of the common grave.

Briefly, let's return to Acts, chapter two, verse 31. "Seeing what was ahead, he [David] spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he [Jesus] was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his body see decay." Again, some versions render "grave" in the place of "Hades," but that is incorrect. Now note: The real Jesus, His spirit, was not left in the unseen abode of departed spirits, nor did His body see decay—two parts, body and spirit. This is easily understood when we recall that Jesus, at the point of death, surrendered His spirit to the Father. James says, "The body without the spirit is dead"—two parts (2:26). Jesus' spirit returned to His Father. God the Father delivered His Son's spirit to the Paradise side of Hades, and there it remained until it was reunited with His body.

But what about "soul?" Paul names three parts of man—spirit, soul, and body (I Thess. 5:23). In the Greek, "soul" refers to "life" or the biological/physical entity of man. Although "spirit" and "soul" are occasionally used interchangeably, the core translation of "soul" is "a living being." The NIV says "man became a living being"—a "soul," in other words. (Gen. 2:7). When Jesus died on the cross, He committed His spirit to His Father. Nothing is said about His committing His soul. So, yes, it seems "breath of life" may be substituted in the place of "soul" (Gen. 2:7).

The Scriptures seem to confirm there's an intermediate state for the dead, both good and evil. And we're talking about active, alert, and live spirits, not "sleeping spirits." At the resurrection of the righteous, the real us will be reunited with our transformed bodies and taken to Heaven where we will reign with God throughout eternity (Phil. 3:21). The wicked will be cast out of God's presence and annihilated/lost forever.

In conclusion, let us clearly understand the central part of a person is his/her spirit. Do you recall what occurred when Jesus said to the child who had died? His said, "Child, arise!" Then the passage reads, "And her spirit returned, and she got up at once" (Luke 8:54-55). Her spirit was the authentic child.

A very good synopsis.  I would only point you to the chapter, The Intermediate State, chapter 20 in the book, The Faith Once for All, by Jack Cottrell.

[garee]

A very good synopsis.  I would only point you to the chapter, The Intermediate State, chapter 20 in the book, The Faith Once for All, by Jack Cottrell.

"Hades should have been translated 'hell---A great sufferings unto death not dead never to rise to new born again spirit life   

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The idea of suffering after one takes there last breath Began with the Pharisees with Sadaucesss two witnesses  It was passed down to Roman Catholics with Greek orthodox both queen mother of heaven worshipers.   Hell to them limbo or purgatory depending on age.  Creating an illusion of angels invisible gods in the likeness of dying mankind called patron saint .
 
The Greek word angelous simply meaning messenger of Christ who works in apostles sent ones, errand boys, UPS, Fed X, Pony Express etc .The apostles how beautiful are their feet the true angels messengers not the patron saints

Hell our sufferings living in bodies of death  death the let of the the law "thou shall not or you are deader than fried chicken  Both the sufferings and the cause (letter)  will be cast into the judgment fire never to rise and condemn another whole creation

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Second death the death of death

[DaveW]

The problem I see with this is the assumption that the dead experience the passage of time the same as we do.  IOW, those who died in the first century have been waiting (either conscious or asleep) for about 2000 years for events to take place.  Waiting and bored.

Since GOD exists outside of time, and the dead are in HIS "time zone," there may be no delay for anyone.

[Reformer]

Note: The comments from all of you who have responded are appreciated and indeed welcome. We may not agree on all of the aspects of this topic, but that does not change the truth that we are God's children and fellow believers.

[Jaime]

The problem I see with this is the assumption that the dead experience the passage of time the same as we do.  IOW, those who died in the first century have been waiting (either conscious or asleep) for about 2000 years for events to take place.  Waiting and bored.

Since GOD exists outside of time, and the dead are in HIS "time zone," there may be no delay for anyone.

That's kinda my view too Dave.

[4WD]

The problem I see with this is the assumption that the dead experience the passage of time the same as we do.  IOW, those who died in the first century have been waiting (either conscious or asleep) for about 2000 years for events to take place.  Waiting and bored.

Since GOD exists outside of time, and the dead are in HIS "time zone," there may be no delay for anyone.

Ah yes!  It is a conundrum.  We have no cognition, no intellection, of an existence outside of time.  When you say "no delay" that is a characterization of time.

The simply truth is that it is only when Jesus returns and all are resurrected and the final judgement is accomplished that the rewards of heaven or hell are rendered.  In the meantime, at least relative to time as we know it, the dead remain in an intermediate state, a state in which the spirit is alive and conscious.

[Hobie]

The State Of The Dead - Where Are They?
[Disembodied Spirits]

Lately, I have been rehashing and researching this subject. Having submitted a great deal of written material on this topic in years past, and considering how current the theme is in many quarters, I thought it time to review and revisit the topic again. So let us begin by inquiring, "Where are the dead?" Are disembodied spirits—that part of man that separates from the body at death—"asleep" or alert in the unseen world?

To address these questions, we should evaluate the Greek term "Hades," as used eleven times in the new covenant Scriptures, although not always translated "Hades." The passages are found in Matthew 11:23, 16:18, Luke 10:15, 16:23, Acts 2:27 & 31, Revelation 1:18, 6:8, & 20:13-14.

During my research, I relied heavily on biblical scholars, all of whom are well versed in the Greek New Testament. Scholarly Campbell says, "Hades should never have been translated 'hell,' as is the case in the common versions." He describes "Hades" as "the receptacle of all the dead, [where] there are rewards and punishments." He goes on to say, "Jesus and the converted thief were together in Hades, while they were together in Paradise." As you recall, Jesus told the thief that "today you will be with me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43).

Where did Jesus' spirit go that day? We know His body was placed inside a tomb, but what about His spirit, the real Jesus? To locate the place, we need only to turn to Acts 2:27 and 31. Peter, quoting from David, says, "...because you will not abandon me to Hades." Many versions employ "grave," but that is a translational mistake. In Psalm 16:8-11, from where the quotation is lifted, "grave" is used and it comes from the Hebrew "sheol." However, "sheol" carries a number of renderings, according to scholarly Adam Clarke in his commentary on Job 7:9, and includes grave, state of the dead, Hades, Hell, and sometimes a deep pit.

The Greek "Hades," on the other hand, carries one basic meaning, namely, the unseen abode of departed spirits, both good and evil. This is precisely how Campbell uses the term. He writes, "For 'Hades' is represented as the receptacle of separated spirits—whether good or evil—whether happy or tormented; in which there is a Paradise, an 'Abraham's bosom,' and in which there is a 'tartarus,' separated from it by an impassable gulf" ("Hades," Millennial Harbinger, pgs. 703-7, 1856).

It is interesting that Campbell, to support his view that Hades contains both good and evil spirits, refers to Samuel who told wicked King Saul when he (Samuel) was called out of Hades, "Tomorrow you and your sons will be with me" (I Samuel 28:19). "With me?" Where? In Hades, the unseen abode of departed spirits. Samuel was not speaking of the common grave.

Briefly, let's return to Acts, chapter two, verse 31. "Seeing what was ahead, he [David] spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he [Jesus] was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his body see decay." Again, some versions render "grave" in the place of "Hades," but that is incorrect. Now note: The real Jesus, His spirit, was not left in the unseen abode of departed spirits, nor did His body see decay—two parts, body and spirit. This is easily understood when we recall that Jesus, at the point of death, surrendered His spirit to the Father. James says, "The body without the spirit is dead"—two parts (2:26). Jesus' spirit returned to His Father. God the Father delivered His Son's spirit to the Paradise side of Hades, and there it remained until it was reunited with His body.

But what about "soul?" Paul names three parts of man—spirit, soul, and body (I Thess. 5:23). In the Greek, "soul" refers to "life" or the biological/physical entity of man. Although "spirit" and "soul" are occasionally used interchangeably, the core translation of "soul" is "a living being." The NIV says "man became a living being"—a "soul," in other words. (Gen. 2:7). When Jesus died on the cross, He committed His spirit to His Father. Nothing is said about His committing His soul. So, yes, it seems "breath of life" may be substituted in the place of "soul" (Gen. 2:7).

The Scriptures seem to confirm there's an intermediate state for the dead, both good and evil. And we're talking about active, alert, and live spirits, not "sleeping spirits." At the resurrection of the righteous, the real us will be reunited with our transformed bodies and taken to Heaven where we will reign with God throughout eternity (Phil. 3:21). The wicked will be cast out of God's presence and annihilated/lost forever.

In conclusion, let us clearly understand the central part of a person is his/her spirit. Do you recall what occurred when Jesus said to the child who had died? His said, "Child, arise!" Then the passage reads, "And her spirit returned, and she got up at once" (Luke 8:54-55). Her spirit was the authentic child.

The body turns to dust in the grave and awaits the resurrection, as all have to wait for the gift from Christ. No one has immortality of their own self, they await Christ..

[4WD]

The body turns to dust in the grave and awaits the resurrection, as all have to wait for the gift from Christ. No one has immortality of their own self, they await Christ..

No Hobie, the body does not await the resurrection.  In most cases the body no longer exists. It has decayed to the chemicals from which it was composed when alive. It the resurrection it is not the dead body that is resurrected. The spirit which did not die is raised up in a "spiritual body" whatever that might be.

[Amo]

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Nevertheless, accepting Enoch, Elijah, Moses, and those of the special resurrection at our Lord's resurrection, everyone has died. Death is of course the opposite of life, and immortality belongs to God alone, who gives such to the saved alone.

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; 18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

We receive eternal life when our Lord returns unto our resurrection. Until then -

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. 7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.8 Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment. 9 Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun. 10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

The dead know not anything.

Psa 146:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul. 2 While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. 3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. 4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Seems pretty simple to me. Nevertheless, as always, people will choose to believe whatever they wish.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

[Reformer]

RESPONDERS: Thanks, readers, for the responses. They're all interesting, but they do not always coincide with each other's views - which is fine, for we can agree to disagree.

[garee]

The problem I see with this is the assumption that the dead experience the passage of time the same as we do.  IOW, those who died in the first century have been waiting (either conscious or asleep) for about 2000 years for events to take place.  Waiting and bored.

Since GOD exists outside of time, and the dead are in HIS "time zone," there may be no delay for anyone.

Dead asleep in the twinkling of the eye last day under sun.