What does a Christian do concerning immigrants, and obeying the law of the land?

[Hobie]

This is a valid and current concern which was raised up by a poster, which is not as easy to answer as one might think. We had a church close to Washington DC which had many immigrants illegally coming in and staying, as they saw the capital of the US as a good point to strive for. We tried to help all those we could with the resources available, but there was one that I remember who had mental health issues and unbalanced mind, which was beyond our capacity to help. If we revealed him to any health or medical professional, they were duty bound to report him which would subject him to expulsion. It really was the classical 'do you reveal the Jewish refugee hiding in your cellar to the police in Nazi Germany'? What is a Christian to do in such situations?

[Amo]

This is a valid and current concern which was raised up by a poster, which is not as easy to answer as one might think. We had a church close to Washington DC which had many immigrants illegally coming in and staying, as they saw the capital of the US as a good point to strive for. We tried to help all those we could with the resources available, but there was one that I remember who had mental health issues and unbalanced mind, which was beyond our capacity to help. If we revealed him to any health or medical professional, they were duty bound to report him which would subject him to expulsion. It really was the classical 'do you reveal the Jewish refugee hiding in your cellar to the police in Nazi Germany'? What is a Christian to do in such situations?

The situation has nothing to do with anything like Jews hiding in your cellar being turned over to the Nazi's in Germany. This comparison reveals the non reality or forced fed false narrative attached to the immigration situation or debate. Our government enforcing immigration laws, is not Nazi Germans exterminating Jews.

Nor is taking in every immigrant from countries which have abusive governments or one's unable to protect their citizens, a healthy ingredient for our nation. This is not to mention that other more corrupt nations might just purposely send their more problematic populations here for us to deal with. Relieving themselves of the costs and negative effects of dealing with such, while burdening us with both, thereby effectively attacking us through means of asymmetrical warfare.

Hoping by these means to help overthrow us from within by financially breaking our nations back. Not to mention diluting our population with voters who do not, nor have ever shared the vision of the fathers of our nation. Unto the Communistic, Socialistic, or globalist elitist systems of government they prefer. As rulers of nations who do not now, nor perhaps ever shared the vision of government for the people and by the people our fathers envisioned. These tactics having already being successfully employed through mass immigrations into our nation many times over already. Placing us upon the ever increasingly dangerous precipice we are just about to fall off of.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The whore of the above prophecies uses the unelected kings or elitists of the world, and their peoples to persecute or go to war with the woman or church of Christ, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Not authentically biblically based or inspired Christian governments of, by, and for the people. The latter are relentlessly attacked by the whore and her authoritarian lovers and or minions. Until they succeed in overthrowing government for and by the people unto true freedom and liberty, and reinstall totalitarian liberty destroying tyrannical government of and by the few living upon the backs of all. Under the moral guidance of the whore who rides this final political beast of biblical prophecy. Unto the end of earth. Come Lord Jesus.

[4WD]

This is a valid and current concern which was raised up by a poster, which is not as easy to answer as one might think. We had a church close to Washington DC which had many immigrants illegally coming in and staying, as they saw the capital of the US as a good point to strive for. We tried to help all those we could with the resources available, but there was one that I remember who had mental health issues and unbalanced mind, which was beyond our capacity to help. If we revealed him to any health or medical professional, they were duty bound to report him which would subject him to expulsion. It really was the classical 'do you reveal the Jewish refugee hiding in your cellar to the police in Nazi Germany'? What is a Christian to do in such situations?

The nation's immigration laws are not inconsistent with God's law.  Therefore, as citizens we are obligated to conduct ourselves accordingly.  I do not know if the law requires us to reveal or identify any we know to be illegal immigrants, but I am sure that it is illegal to employ illegal immigrants. Helping illegal immigrants in any way for them to avoid being identified is probably against the law.  A judge (in Michigan?) was recently charged and convicted for helping an illegal immigrant avoid ICE agents.

So whether or not we are required to identify such illegal immigrants, our emphasis should be to help them abide by the nation's laws, even if that leads to deportation.

[The Barbarian]

The nation's immigration laws are not inconsistent with God's law.  Therefore, as citizens we are obligated to conduct ourselves accordingly.  I do not know if the law requires us to reveal or identify any we know to be illegal immigrants, but I am sure that it is illegal to employ illegal immigrants.

It is.  It didn't use to be like that.  In high school and college I worked track gangs, replacing railroad ties and sometimes rail.   It was hard, dirty work, but it paid really well.   Most of the men on those gangs were Mexicans.   I'm sure the vast majority of them were not legal.   No one cared.   They were good people, the great majority of them, hard-working and grateful for the opportunity.  They liked the job, because they could earn enough in a few months to support a family in Mexico for the year.  A few Anglos applied for the jobs, but most of them didn't last very long.  Mostly young guys like me, who liked the money.

Helping illegal immigrants in any way for them to avoid being identified is probably against the law.

It is. 

So whether or not we are required to identify such illegal immigrants, our emphasis should be to help them abide by the nation's laws, even if that leads to deportation.

Once we quit obeying the laws, the nation drifts off into anarchy or despotism.   And we see a little of both right now.  We have to follow the laws.  Problem is, immigration laws are hurting America now.  If all the illegal immigrants went home, it would produce a recession. 

Irony is, in the 1960s, the right was interested in having more immigrant workers.   Ronald Reagan, in his farewell address, argued that anyone who was willing to come and help build America should be allowed in.

"I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still."


Reagan was an incurable optimist.   He believed in America and in the transforming power of the American dream.   We need more of that today.

[Amo]

The effects of unbridled mass illegal or legal immigration can and will inevitably be the same as that of an invasion by foreign military forces. The purpose of the latter being to take over and pillage the wealth of the nation being attacked. Many have been, and are actually using mass migration for this very purpose around the globe, and most obviously in these once United States. Nevertheless, the effect of unbridled mass immigration even by those not intending a military take over is much the same as one in the end.

What are they coming for, but to do better for themselves. How many millions can one nation facilitate unto a better life, without eventually seriously effecting the lives of those whose jobs and or businesses they take over. This is not to mention the countless millions or billions of dollars leaving this country back to that of the homes of the immigrants in their countries of actual citizenship every year. This is apart from displacing countless millions of jobs once occupied by citizens of this nation, and or the stagnation of wages a never ending supply of cheaper workers causes.

These are realities I have been eye witnessing and living as one working in construction for decades now. I have watched one construction trade or contracting field of citizen workers after another be completely replaced with Latino workers. To the tune of anywhere from 75 to 90 percent of the workers on any given job today, being Latino. English speaking construction workers are now a total minority on most job sites I have worked for many years now. Extrapolate that over the entire nation, and you have countless job displacements, which unquestionably alters the landscape of any nation. This is of course not even to address many other negative effects upon the actual citizens of nations, mass immigration or invasion by armed or unarmed legal or illegals causes.

When I worked for myself for a few years, I realized that there was no way that I could compete with the ever increasing numbers of Latinos vying for the work I did. Giving one a ride home from the job I was working on one day, I learned in conversation that he lived with the twelve others that worked together in one house. They shared the cost of all the bills and food, and sent as much was possible home. There was no way that I could compete with those willing to work for less, who had no roots or even family here to worry about taking care of, and in many ways were outside of the system which costs me and all other citizens of this country so much to be a part of. I also understood and do understand, that while all of this was a great disadvantage to me, it was a great money making machine for companies who would make use of much cheaper labor and costs concerning those they employed.

Still, this is only addressing one aspect of the many problems involved with unbridled mass migration. Which involves the many religious, societal, cultural, and political changes that mass migration brings about. All of which will naturally change a nation from within, introducing foreign aspects of all of the above, which do not align with the original intent of our founding fathers. This is how mass migration becomes a political tool of asymmetrical warfare in the hands of those who intend to change or overthrow our nation from within. Nor is this a new concept at all. The devil himself and his minions have and do employ this method throughout history.

He finally diluted and conquered authentic Christianity itself, by inundating it with unconverted pagans by the millions. When "Christianity" became the officially established religion of the Roman empire, by the command of the Roman Pontifex Maximus, Constantine. Mandating the "conversion" of all in the empire by decree, compulsory "Christianity". Which in reality has never and will never exist. Being completely outside the realm of authentic biblical Christianity. Apart from this, the bible describes the devil's use of the masses of unbelievers of this world, to destroy authentic biblically grounded religions, governments, or societies.

Rev 12:7  And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8  And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12  Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13  And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14  And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15  And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16  And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

What largely wilderness nation became a home for persecuted Christians in the past? Which nation ended up forming a Christ like government establishing freedom, liberty, and justice for all? And what are the waters which the devil casts out ion his mouth to carry the true church of Christ away? Who controls or sits upon them?

Rev 17:1  And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2  With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3  So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4  And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5  And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH......................................
15  And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues 16  And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17  For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18  And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Our nations Declaration of Independence and Constitution cannot be overthrown from without. As we have an outstanding military, backed up by an armed population. It must therefore be conquered from within by a majority of people whose vision and purpose is opposed to that of our founding fathers. Who built this nation upon biblical notions of freedom, liberty, equality, and justice for all. Flawed though they themselves were. Equality of opportunity, not government enforced equality of outcome for all. Which places way too much power in the hands of a few who will ultimately abuse such power. As the history of the governments of the world has demonstrated over and again ad nauseam.

The Declaration of Independence
 
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

.....................................................

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.–Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.