John 20:22

[yogi bear]

21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Okay here is my question Could this be where the Apostles got the indwelling Spirit?

Here is my line of thought. We are pretty sure they were baptized with the baptism of John which could not give the indwelling Spirit because Jesus had not yet dies and arose again but now he has .We know that Acts 2:1-4 was the outpouring that Joel prophesied as evident by Acts 2:16-21 and was promised the power of witness to the Apostles Acts 1:5&8

So could this be the Apostles getting the indwelling in John 20:22

[pppp]

Matthew 3;13-17,
 
The Baptism of Jesus
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?"

15 Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented.

16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."



John 20;20-23
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21 Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Acts 1;5, 8-11,
  5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

Acts 2;1-8,
The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost
2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: "Aren't all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?

[pppp]

Acts 2;25-33,
25 David said about him:

"'I saw the Lord always before me.
    Because he is at my right hand,
    I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
    my body also will rest in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
    you will not let your holy one see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
    you will fill me with joy in your presence.'

29 "Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

[pppp]

38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.


Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2 Corinthians 3:17 

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever.
John 14:16 
 
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
John 14:26

Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst?
1 Corinthians 3:16
 
And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
Ezekiel 36:27

May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 15:13

May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
2 Corinthians 13:14

[yogi bear]

ppp Thank you for your response but can you elaborate on what the scriptures mean to you? I know what I understand them to say but would like to see what others think reveal so I don't have to assume what is you thoughts.

[Dave...]

21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Okay here is my question Could this be where the Apostles got the indwelling Spirit?

Here is my line of thought. We are pretty sure they were baptized with the baptism of John which could not give the indwelling Spirit because Jesus had not yet dies and arose again but now he has .We know that Acts 2:1-4 was the outpouring that Joel prophesied as evident by Acts 2:16-21 and was promised the power of witness to the Apostles Acts 1:5&8

So could this be the Apostles getting the indwelling in John 20:22


16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

The ongoing debate. John 20:22 was after the death and resurrection, but before the ascension. So it's not as big of a problem as some make it out to be. Acts 1:4, which points back to John prophesy about the baptism with the Holy Spirit, is speaking to those same disciples. Jesus told them to wait for it.

Dave

[yogi bear]

The ongoing debate. John 20:22 was after the death and resurrection, but before the ascension. So it's not as big of a problem as some make it out to be. Acts 1:4, which points back to John prophesy about the baptism with the Holy Spirit, is speaking to those same disciples. Jesus told them to wait for it.

Dave

Yes that is what I am tying to discuss but I see you added Acts 8:16 to my quote may I ask why and what you imply

[pppp]

Thank you yogi bear for your reply.

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is when the third Person of the Trinity takes up permanent residence within every believer at the moment of salvation.
 That is when a believer/believers begin to believe in Christ, the indwelling of The Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence within a person/people.

In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit came upon specific people for temporary service.
Exodus 31;1-6
31 Then the Lord said to Moses, 2 "See, I have chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills— 4 to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, 5 to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts. 6 Moreover, I have appointed Oholiab son of Ahisamak, of the tribe of Dan, to help him. Also I have given ability to all the skilled workers to make everything I have commanded you:

But in the New Testament, the indwelling of The Holy Spirit is permanent.
In
John 21, it is given,
''21 Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.''
Jesus breathed on them & said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.''
This shows that they receiced the Holy Spirit.

Then it given ....
Acts 1;5, 8-11,
 '' 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

But in Acts 2;1-8, it is given '' 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.''

This again shows that All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit so that they would be empowered for the ministry work & for performing miracles.

[pppp]

 When a believer/believers begin to believe in Christ, the indwelling of The Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence within a person/people.

But in Acts 2;1-8, it is given '' 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.''

This again shows that all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit, so that they would be empowered for the ministry work & for performing miracles.

There is a clear distinction between receiving The Holy Spirit & being empowered by The Holy Spirit.

When Every
believer/believers begins to believe in Christ, the indwelling of The Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence within that person/people.
But when a person/people, submits or surrenders their souls by their
own will, walks by their souls, & are ready to be guided by God,
& walk on the path chosen for them by God,
then they become  empowered by The Holy Spirit,
in order to perform healings, miracles & illuminate people with the light of God,
which they themselves receive from God.

Daniel 4-9
9 I said, "Belteshazzar, chief of the wise men, I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in you, and no mystery is too difficult for you. Here is my dream; interpret it for me.
Then Daniel (also called Belteshazzar), interpreted the dream.

Luke 1:67-70
Zechariah's Song
67 His father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied:

68 "Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel,
    because he has come to his people and redeemed them.
69 He has raised up a horn of salvation for us
    in the house of his servant David
70 (as he said through his holy prophets of long ago),

2 Peter 1:21
21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

[yogi bear]

When a believer/believers begin to believe in Christ, the indwelling of The Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence within a person/people.

But in Acts 2;1-8, it is given '' 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.''

This again shows that all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit, so that they would be empowered for the ministry work & for performing miracles.

There is a clear distinction between receiving The Holy Spirit & being empowered by The Holy Spirit.

When Every
believer/believers begins to believe in Christ, the indwelling of The Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence within that person/people.
But when a person/people, submits or surrenders their souls by their
own will, walks by their souls, & are ready to be guided by God,
& walk on the path chosen for them by God,
then they become  empowered by The Holy Spirit,
in order to perform healings, miracles & illuminate people with the light of God,
which they themselves receive from God.

Daniel 4-9
9 I said, "Belteshazzar, chief of the wise men, I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in you, and no mystery is too difficult for you. Here is my dream; interpret it for me.
Then Daniel (also called Belteshazzar), interpreted the dream.

Luke 1:67-70
Zechariah's Song
67 His father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied:

68 "Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel,
    because he has come to his people and redeemed them.
69 He has raised up a horn of salvation for us
    in the house of his servant David
70 (as he said through his holy prophets of long ago),

2 Peter 1:21
21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

There is quite a few thoughts in that I have to question as how you came to that inference but don't want discourage either of use if I debate our difference of inference so have to ask if you would be up to questions regarding you response.

[pppp]

Thank you yogi bear for your reply.
You asked ..''if you would be up to questions regarding you response.''

The Holy Bible has always got got something beautiful to discuss & may this discussion help believers to love Christ & Scripture more..


The Indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the OT.

1 Samuel 16
....."The Lord has not chosen these." 11 So he asked Jesse, "Are these all the sons you have?"

"There is still the youngest," Jesse answered. "He is tending the sheep."

Samuel said, "Send for him; we will not sit down until he arrives."

12 So he sent for him and had him brought in. He was glowing with health and had a fine appearance and handsome features.

Then the Lord said, "Rise and anoint him; this is the one."

13 So Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the presence of his brothers, and from that day on the Spirit of the Lord came powerfully upon David. Samuel then went to Ramah.



Numbers 11;23-30,
 
23 The Lord answered Moses, "Is the Lord's arm too short? Now you will see whether or not what I say will come true for you."

24 So Moses went out and told the people what the Lord had said. He brought together seventy of their elders and had them stand around the tent. 25 Then the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke with him, and he took some of the power of the Spirit that was on him and put it on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied—but did not do so again.

26 However, two men, whose names were Eldad and Medad, had remained in the camp. They were listed among the elders, but did not go out to the tent. Yet the Spirit also rested on them, and they prophesied in the camp. 27 A young man ran and told Moses, "Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp."

28 Joshua son of Nun, who had been Moses' aide since youth, spoke up and said, "Moses, my lord, stop them!"

29 But Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the Lord's people were prophets and that the Lord would put his Spirit on them!" 30 Then Moses and the elders of Israel returned to the camp.



Acts 9:17-18
 
New International Version
17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized,

[pppp]

Acts 8;14-17,
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.


Acts 10:44-47,
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
Then Peter said, 47 "Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.



Ephesians 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

To God's holy people in Ephesus,[a] the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Praise for Spiritual Blessings in Christ
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
11 In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

[pppp]

Acts 8:5-8
5 Philip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed the Messiah there. 6 When the crowds heard Philip and saw the signs he performed, they all paid close attention to what he said. 7 For with shrieks, impure spirits came out of many, and many who were paralyzed or lame were healed. 8 So there was great joy in that city.


Acts 3:1-10
Peter Heals a Lame Beggar
3 One day Peter and John were going up to the temple at the time of prayer—at three in the afternoon. 2 Now a man who was lame from birth was being carried to the temple gate called Beautiful, where he was put every day to beg from those going into the temple courts. 3 When he saw Peter and John about to enter, he asked them for money. 4 Peter looked straight at him, as did John. Then Peter said, "Look at us!" 5 So the man gave them his attention, expecting to get something from them.

6 Then Peter said, "Silver or gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk." 7 Taking him by the right hand, he helped him up, and instantly the man's feet and ankles became strong. 8 He jumped to his feet and began to walk. Then he went with them into the temple courts, walking and jumping, and praising God. 9 When all the people saw him walking and praising God, 10 they recognized him as the same man who used to sit begging at the temple gate called Beautiful, and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him.



Acts 4:8-12
8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people! 9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed, 10 then know this, ....: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, .... whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is

"'the stone ...,
    which has become the cornerstone.'

12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved."

[pppp]

The above Verses in no. 10, 11, 12, show the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers
& when miracles & healings took place because of the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit .

[yogi bear]

Okay I admit I have not read through you resent replies and will do so shortly and then ask any questions that I may have but fist just want to expand my thought process a little.


Okay let me advance my thought process a little. We know that John and Jesus was preaching a water baptism into a rented stance with the command to be baptized for the remission of sins. We also know that it was not a completed version that Jesus was to fulfill it later but was the way to remit sin until the kingdom comes. John said that Jesus was to baptize with the Holy Ghost. that being because the Spirit could not be given before the cross. John 7:39

Now we have Jesus risen from the grave in John 20 and talking with his disciples and sends them on to further his words. He breaths on them and tells them to receive the spirit. It was the only thing lacking the baptism that he was to baptize with and he could do it in person while he was still on earth. I must have been the indwelling because he has not poured it out on all flesh yet but is soon to do just that.

Now in Acts 1:5 we see he tell the same Apostles that they will be baptized with the Holy Ghost and in verse 8 we that it is to be with power after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.". Notice the order both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.". because that will be shown later how it plays out.

Now we see that that happened on the day of Pentecost Acts 2:1-4 and it appears that it only came upon the 12 Apostles by what Peter said in verse 14

Now according to Peter this was the original outpouring of the Spirit as Joel prophesied about. See Acts 2:16-21

Then Peter said that from that point on that the Spirit is given though the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the emission of sin and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.That being the baptism that Jesus was to baptize with it is the one he commands this Apostle to do it is by his authority the only one he authorizes after he was raised from the grave it is the one that has the power of the Cross as to where God is doing his spiritual wok of transforming use from dead in our sins to alive in Christ we were born again.

So with all that information given me I ask is it possible that in John 20:22 the spirit given the Apostles on that day might have been the indwelling Spirit? After all it was after the cross and before they we commissioned to their journey.

[yogi bear]

The above Verses in no. 10, 11, 12, show the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers
& when miracles & healings took place because of the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit .

Brother I think you have mistaken the function of the Spirit in the passages you posted. According to scripture the indwelling Spirit produces fruit not the power gifts for witness. The indwelling is promised to all and all receive the indwelling through the baptism in Christ name, but the power gifts were only given to a select few, and other than the Apostles, and the house of Cornelius it was only given by the laying on of hands it is separate from the indwelling with a special purpose as the bible says it is for witness of the word.

The difference it the Spirit within and the Spirit upon is a whole different study and will need it more in depth study so we have a lot to go through here.

[pppp]

Thanks for your reply yogi bear.
What I meant was that  when a believer/believers begins to believe in Christ, the indwelling of The Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence within that person/people.

But when a person/people, submits or surrenders their souls by their
own will, walks by their souls, & are ready to be guided by God,
& walk on the path chosen for them by God,
then they become  empowered by The Holy Spirit,
in order to perform healings, miracles & illuminate people with the light of God,
which they themselves receive from God.


So, the above Verses in No. 10, 11, 12, show the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit in all the believers.
And also show, that when the the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit took place in God's chosen people like the Apostles, (who had willingly surrendered their soul to God),
then miracles & healings that took place.

[Dave...]

Yes that is what I am tying to discuss but I see you added Acts 8:16 to my quote may I ask why and what you imply

I'm not sure where Acts 8:16 came from, I remember wondering why it was there when I quoted you, but it was after the quote end. I thought that maybe the quote-end was in the wrong place, so I moved the end quote down. It really wasn't part of my reply anyways, but sorry. 

I guess my point was that we know what the disciples were waiting for in Acts because in Acts 1:4-6 Jesus tells us. They waited for the baptism with the Holy Spirit that John prophesied about (Matthew 3:11), which is literally the indwelling Holy Spirit that places us in Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). It's for this reason that I disagree with R.C. Sproul and others that they *may have* received that indwelling Holy Spirit in John 20:22. 

I think it's more likely that in John 20:22 the Holy Spirit being upon the them to keep them guarded in answer to Jesus' prayer. They needed that protection until the indwelling, which was ten days after the ascension, a ten day gap. Jesus said that He was with them and would be in them and that He would not leave them orphans but would come to them. My best guess would be that what happened in John 20:22 was they were given the Holy Spirit upon them, perhaps even filled, OT style, to protect them in between when Jesus ascended (with them) and the Holy Spirit was given (in them), thus not leaving them orphans.

I know some if not all of you are not even going to give this a second thought because it contrasts what you believe, but I'll post it anyways.

I do believe that exploring the reason that the Holy Spirit could not be given until Pentecost may be revealing, as there may be more to it than a glance would reveal. Especially with regards to Jesus sitting at the right hand of the Father, glorified. Thus, the High Priest, the Mediator is in place. While Jesus was here in His incarnation, perhaps the Holy Spirit was limited for that reason and others and could not be given. Jesus, being glorified and sitting at the right hand of the Father, maybe, only then does He actually become the Mediator attached to the Holy Spirit indwelling. This difference in the Holy Spirit from before and after, is not a difference in character, but in accomplishment. The Holy Spirit with all Christs accomplishments, the atonement, the righteousness that is imputed to us established, the death and resurrection by which we're born again, all needed to happen, **and then**, the sitting at the right hand of the Father, is perhaps where Jesus literally becomes the Mediator. And perhaps the Holy Spirit was absent that Mediator and the ingredients that save us until Jesus is literally sitting at the right hand of the Father, as our High Priest, Mediating. We then receive the Holy Spirit with the Mediator Mediating. So in short, Jesus being glorified matters just as much as the rest, the righteousness, the life, the sinlessness, the cross. 

Hebrews talks about this a lot. Hebrews 9:23-28 10:12-21. Consider, that until Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father, there is no Mediator, there is no atonement, or righteousness of God imputed, even though the sinless, perfectly righteous incarnate life and cross already happened. The Mediator must be in place, only then Holy Spirit ready to deliver all saving ingredients to anyone indwelt by faith which places them in Christ.

John 7:38-39 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

[yogi bear]

I'm not sure where Acts 8:16 came from, I remember wondering why it was there when I quoted you, but it was after the quote end. I thought that maybe the quote-end was in the wrong place, so I moved the end quote down. It really wasn't part of my reply anyways, but sorry. 

I guess my point was that we know what the disciples were waiting for in Acts because in Acts 1:4-6 Jesus tells us. They waited for the baptism with the Holy Spirit that John prophesied about (Matthew 3:11), which is literally the indwelling Holy Spirit that places us in Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). It's for this reason that I disagree with R.C. Sproul and others that they *may have* received that indwelling Holy Spirit in John 20:22. 

I think it's more likely that in John 20:22 the Holy Spirit being upon the them to keep them guarded in answer to Jesus' prayer. They needed that protection until the indwelling, which was ten days after the ascension, a ten day gap. Jesus said that He was with them and would be in them and that He would not leave them orphans but would come to them. My best guess would be that what happened in John 20:22 was they were given the Holy Spirit upon them, perhaps even filled, OT style, to protect them in between when Jesus ascended (with them) and the Holy Spirit was given (in them), thus not leaving them orphans.

I know some if not all of you are not even going to give this a second thought because it contrasts what you believe, but I'll post it anyways.

I do believe that exploring the reason that the Holy Spirit could not be given until Pentecost may be revealing, as there may be more to it than a glance would reveal. Especially with regards to Jesus sitting at the right hand of the Father, glorified. Thus, the High Priest, the Mediator is in place. While Jesus was here in His incarnation, perhaps the Holy Spirit was limited for that reason and others and could not be given. Jesus, being glorified and sitting at the right hand of the Father, maybe, only then does He actually become the Mediator attached to the Holy Spirit indwelling. This difference in the Holy Spirit from before and after, is not a difference in character, but in accomplishment. The Holy Spirit with all Christs accomplishments, the atonement, the righteousness that is imputed to us established, the death and resurrection by which we're born again, all needed to happen, **and then**, the sitting at the right hand of the Father, is perhaps where Jesus literally becomes the Mediator. And perhaps the Holy Spirit was absent that Mediator and the ingredients that save us until Jesus is literally sitting at the right hand of the Father, as our High Priest, Mediating. We then receive the Holy Spirit with the Mediator Mediating. So in short, Jesus being glorified matters just as much as the rest, the righteousness, the life, the sinlessness, the cross. 

Hebrews talks about this a lot. Hebrews 9:23-28 10:12-21. Consider, that until Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father, there is no Mediator, there is no atonement, or righteousness of God imputed, even though the sinless, perfectly righteous incarnate life and cross already happened. The Mediator must be in place, only then Holy Spirit ready to deliver all saving ingredients to anyone indwelt by faith which places them in Christ.

John 7:38-39 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

That is a lot to think about I will have to study it cause Jesus did say it is imperative that he leaves so he can send the Spirit so now I have to fit that in my study thank you for your response.

[pppp]

yogi bear, you had asked ...
''So with all that information given me I ask is it possible that in John 20:22 the spirit given the Apostles on that day might have been the indwelling Spirit? After all it was after the cross and before they we commissioned to their journey.''

Yes, in John 20:22 the spirit given to the Apostles on that day was the
the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

[yogi bear]

Thanks for your reply yogi bear.
What I meant was that  when a believer/believers begins to believe in Christ, the indwelling of The Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence within that person/people.

But when a person/people, submits or surrenders their souls by their
own will, walks by their souls, & are ready to be guided by God,
& walk on the path chosen for them by God,
then they become  empowered by The Holy Spirit,
in order to perform healings, miracles & illuminate people with the light of God,
which they themselves receive from God.


So, the above Verses in No. 10, 11, 12, show the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit in all the believers.
And also show, that when the the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit took place in God's chosen people like the Apostles, (who had willingly surrendered their soul to God),
then miracles & healings that took place.

ppp you said

"What I meant was that  when a believer/believers begins to believe in Christ, the indwelling of The Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence within that person/people."

Where do you find this in scripture and how does it harmonize with Acts 2:38?

[yogi bear]

I was hoping to hear from 4WD and Wycliffes_Shillelagh to see what there thoughts were on this subject also.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I was hoping to hear from 4WD and Wycliffes_Shillelagh to see what there thoughts were on this subject also.

I'm not sure.  I tend towards the idea that the indwelling didn't happen until Pentecost, but again... I'm not sure.

[yogi bear]

I'm not sure.  I tend towards the idea that the indwelling didn't happen until Pentecost, but again... I'm not sure.

I understand that and can see why but I also think there is a message there that we might be over looking. It seems that the Spirit had a reason for it to be recorded and maybe we just over look the message there.Why would it be recorded if it wasn't a tidbit of revelation for our understanding?

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I understand that and can see why but I also think there is a message there that we might be over looking. It seems that the Spirit had a reason for it to be recorded and maybe we just over look the message there.Why would it be recorded if it wasn't a tidbit of revelation for our understanding?

I'm sure there must be a reason for that, but I've always looked at that bit and not understood it.

I lean towards later, because of...

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

[yogi bear]

Yes that is where I always went but then someone brought up that it was Jesus giving the indwelling Spirit but I think Dave might have a good thought about it being more as empowerment but that really don't follow the pattern very well either being the gifts didn't follow but could be more like him working as he did before the cross as a sign that Jesus was the Messiah.