Revelation On The "I AM" Delusion

[Squeakybro]

                         THE  I AM DELUSION
John 7:39-43
39   (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
40   Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
41   Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
42   Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
43   So there was a division among the people because of him.
John 7:51-52
51   Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?
52   They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.
John 8:1-2
1   Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2   And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
John 8:12
12   Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 8:16-18
16   And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17   It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18   I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John 8:21
21   Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
John 8:23-24
23   And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24   I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:28-29
28   Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29   And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
John 8:58-59
58   Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59   Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
(KJV)
  xxx Jesus was teaching in the temple and they were questioning Him on whether or not He was the Christ. Then they all went home and came back the next day to question Him some more. When Jesus told them: you will die in your sins if you do not believe that I am He. Then in verse 58 Jesus was telling them that even before Abraham that I am . But they picked up stones to throw at Him so they cut Jesus off in the middle of His sentance and Jesus got out of there. Jesus was claiming that" I AM He" the Christ. Jesus was not claiming He was God.
verse 24 and 28 Jesus said it, I am he. Jesus was saying He was the Christ that they were speaking of in John 7-41. But in is obvious why they didnt understand from John 7-39 they havent received the Holy Spirit yet. And even today many do not know the Spirit and get deceived in the verses.

[twd]

Sorry, John doesn't say that Jesus was cut off in mid speech, nor does he say that they picked up stones to do so.  Why would the Jewish leaders have so suddenly switch from ridicule to anger, ready to stone him?  It's because they understood him to be claiming to be "I Am".   Your explaination doesn't fit the mood of the passage, nor does it fit the actions of the Jews.

[marc]

Same thing happened to Neil Diamond once. 

[twd]

Same thing happened to Neil Diamond once. 

Yeah, but it was to no one there.

[Lee Freeman]

Squeaky, Jesus' use of "I am" in John, particularly in chapter 7 is no accident or quirk of the translators.


In John 6:35 Jesus says "I am the bread of life."

In 8:12 he says "I am the light of the world."

In 10:9 he says "I am the door."

In John 10:11, 14 he says "I am the Good Shepherd."

In 11:25 he says "I am the resurrection and the life."

In 14:6 he says "I am the way, the truth and the life."

In John 15:1 he says "I am the true vine."


Jesus' light metaphor is steeped in Old Testament allusions. The Shekinah Glory of God led the Hebrews in the wilderness as a cloud in Exodus 13:21-22, protecting them from their enemies (14:19-25). The Israelites were trained to sing "The LORD is my light and my salvation" (Psalm 27:1). The word of God, the law of God is a light to guide the path of those who cherish instruction (Psalm 119:105; Proverbs 6:23); God's light is shed abroad in revelation (Ezekiel 1:4, 13, 26-28) and salvation (Habbakuk 3:3-4). According to Psalm 44:3 "Light is Yahweh in action." So again, Jesus' use of "I am the light of the world" is him referring to himself in the role reserved for God in the Old Testament, thus Jesus is calling himself God. And the Jews knew exactly what he was saying, which is why they tried to stone him-because in their understanding Jesus was blaspheming by calling himself God. Which is just what John tells us in John 5: 18: "For this reason the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because he was not only breaking the sabbath, but was also calling God his father, thereby making himself equal to God."

Psalm 23:1; 78:52; 80:1; 95:7; 100:3;  Isaiah 40:11; Ezekiel 34:11-ff all refer to Yahweh as a shepherd. Thus when Jesus claims to be the Good Shepherd he is claiming a role reserved for God in the Old Testament. Notice Jesus didn't say "I am like the Good Shepherd"-he said I am the Good Shepherd."

These verses MUST be read and interpreted in light of the Old Testament. "I AM" is nothing less than "the style of deity," for in the Old Testament the declaration "I am" is the signature of Yahweh, the God of Israel. In Exodus 3:13 God revealed himself to Moses as "I am who I am." Thus God was saying that he is the self-existent deity who can be to his people all that he chooses and all that they need.

When Jesus uses "I am" it is a direct allusion to YHWH-Jesus is in essence calling himself God. When he says that "before Abraham was born I am" Jesus is pointing out his divine preexistence.

There simply is no other way to interpret these verses-save chopping them up or twisting them into saying that a day passed between the verses in the same passage-which is a GIANT stretch because the text nowhere says, or even hints, this. The only way these verses make sense is the way I just showed you above. You cannot drive a wedge between the Old and New Testaments; if you misunderstand or ignore the OT you will not understand the NT. They're two parts of a connected whole.

Pax.

[david johnson]

you're saying Jesus was deluded?
oh, my.  doesn't that make you kin to those guys who said He cast out demons by the power of satan? 
fine company there, skweeker.

dj

[Cliftyman]

58   Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Thats one of the single most powerful statements in the bible.  It tells us instantly who Jesus Christ thought and said he was.

He is I AM.

[Squeakybro]

Sorry, John doesn't say that Jesus was cut off in mid speech, nor does he say that they picked up stones to do so.  Why would the Jewish leaders have so suddenly switch from ridicule to anger, ready to stone him?  It's because they understood him to be claiming to be "I Am".   Your explaination doesn't fit the mood of the passage, nor does it fit the actions of the Jews.

I said
I think you should look again.

John 8:59
59   Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
(NKJ)

[Squeakybro]

you said

When Jesus uses "I am" it is a direct allusion to YHWH-Jesus is in essence calling himself God. When he says that "before Abraham was born I am" Jesus is pointing out his divine preexistence.

I said
Although that is a popular opinion, it is just that an opinion.  And because of my revelation from the Holy Spirit I think I'll go with Him.

[Lee Freeman]

you said

When Jesus uses "I am" it is a direct allusion to YHWH-Jesus is in essence calling himself God. When he says that "before Abraham was born I am" Jesus is pointing out his divine preexistence.

I said
Although that is a popular opinion, it is just that an opinion.  And because of my revelation from the Holy Spirit I think I'll go with Him.

Squeaky, do you agree that YHWH referred to himself as "I am" to Moses in Exodus? If so, then what else can Jesus mean when he refers to himself as "I am" in John 8:58? No, the only opinion here is the one you seem to have that you can make scripture mean whatever you subjectively feel like it should mean. Because you don't like the idea of Jesus's using "I am"  as a reference to his Godhood, then it simply doesn't mean that. You can make scripture say whatever you like and claim inspiration from the Holy Spirit. False teachers have been doing this for centuries.

If you can prove to me from the Greek and Hebrew that my interpretation is merely opinion, I'll believe you. I won't believe you simply because you say "Because I said so." Who are you that we should bow down to your views? Scripture tells us to test the spirits. So again, if you can furnish textual or exegetical proof that I'm wrong I'll listen. Until then, saying "I said so" won't cut it. Can you understand why I can't simply take your word for it?


Are these verses opinions?

God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (II Timothy 3:16 KJV)


He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. (Colossians 1:15-20 NIV)

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself. . . (Phillippians 2:5-7 NIV)

Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours. . . (II Pet. 1:1 NIV)


God became flesh. Jesus is our God and Savior. Jesus was in very nature God. Jesus is the image of the invisible God. These verses seem pretty simple and straightforward to me.

The only "opinion" to me it would seem, is whether or not we will let what the Bible says dictate our beliefs or whether we will let our preconceived ideas dictate what the Bible says.

Pax.

[Cliftyman]

Hey Squeaky, what is it that doesn't fit with you theology that you would want to make "I AM" mean something else?

The popular opinion is that Jesus saying he was "I AM" meant he was saying that he was God. (and is BTW).

If this were the only place in the bible where Jesus made this claim it may be possible that it didn't mean that, but Jesus made the claim that he was God many times.

31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"  33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." (John 10:31-33

No Jew would ever place themselves in such close proximity to God unless they beleived they were one and the same.  Obviously the Jews who heard Jesus had no doubt what he meant by such statements "you, a mere man, claim to be God"....

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)

Jesus proclaimed knowing him was synonomous to knowing God the Father...

57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"  58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds. (John 8:57-29)

Jesus proclaimed he existed before Abraham, but he used the name of God "I AM"

18"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.

Jesus was not saying he wasn't good... he was stating matter of factly why the rich young ruler was calling him, good.... because God is good and Jesus was God.

Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ,[f] the Son of the Blessed One?"  62"I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."  63The high priest tore his clothes. "Why do we need any more witnesses?" he asked. 64"You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?"
(Mark 14: 62-64)

[marc]

you said

When Jesus uses "I am" it is a direct allusion to YHWH-Jesus is in essence calling himself God. When he says that "before Abraham was born I am" Jesus is pointing out his divine preexistence.

I said
Although that is a popular opinion, it is just that an opinion.  And because of my revelation from the Holy Spirit I think I'll go with Him.

You may want to consider whether the Spirit you are dealing with is really acknowledging Jesus. 

1 John 4:

1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

[twd]

you said

When Jesus uses "I am" it is a direct allusion to YHWH-Jesus is in essence calling himself God. When he says that "before Abraham was born I am" Jesus is pointing out his divine preexistence.

I said
Although that is a popular opinion, it is just that an opinion.  And because of my revelation from the Holy Spirit I think I'll go with Him.

Well, it doesn't matter what any of us say, or how much we reference scripture, you got a direct revelation, Squeaky.  Very convenient for winning arguments.

Ironically, the revelation you claim you got from the Holy Spirit that you claim only quotes scripture seems to go against the scripture that several of us have quoted here.

[Squeakybro]

you said

When Jesus uses "I am" it is a direct allusion to YHWH-Jesus is in essence calling himself God. When he says that "before Abraham was born I am" Jesus is pointing out his divine preexistence.

I said
Although that is a popular opinion, it is just that an opinion.  And because of my revelation from the Holy Spirit I think I'll go with Him.

Squeaky, do you agree that YHWH referred to himself as "I am" to Moses in Exodus? If so, then what else can Jesus mean when he refers to himself as "I am" in John 8:58? No, the only opinion here is the one you seem to have that you can make scripture mean whatever you subjectively feel like it should mean. Because you don't like the idea of Jesus's using "I am"  as a reference to his Godhood, then it simply doesn't mean that. You can make scripture say whatever you like and claim inspiration from the Holy Spirit. False teachers have been doing this for centuries.

If you can prove to me from the Greek and Hebrew that my interpretation is merely opinion, I'll believe you. I won't believe you simply because you say "Because I said so." Who are you that we should bow down to your views? Scripture tells us to test the spirits. So again, if you can furnish textual or exegetical proof that I'm wrong I'll listen. Until then, saying "I said so" won't cut it. Can you understand why I can't simply take your word for it?


Are these verses opinions?

God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (II Timothy 3:16 KJV)


He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. (Colossians 1:15-20 NIV)

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself. . . (Phillippians 2:5-7 NIV)

Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours. . . (II Pet. 1:1 NIV)


God became flesh. Jesus is our God and Savior. Jesus was in very nature God. Jesus is the image of the invisible God. These verses seem pretty simple and straightforward to me.

The only "opinion" to me it would seem, is whether or not we will let what the Bible says dictate our beliefs or whether we will let our preconceived ideas dictate what the Bible says.

Pax.

I said
Have you ever compared the definition of words in the old testament with the same word in the new testament?

[Squeakybro]

you said

When Jesus uses "I am" it is a direct allusion to YHWH-Jesus is in essence calling himself God. When he says that "before Abraham was born I am" Jesus is pointing out his divine preexistence.

I said
Although that is a popular opinion, it is just that an opinion.  And because of my revelation from the Holy Spirit I think I'll go with Him.

You may want to consider whether the Spirit you are dealing with is really acknowledging Jesus. 

1 John 4:

1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

I said
I posted a whole revelation on how to know the Holy Spirit on the other board. And its a revelation not just an opinion. Yes I know Him. Do you?

[Squeakybro]

you said

When Jesus uses "I am" it is a direct allusion to YHWH-Jesus is in essence calling himself God. When he says that "before Abraham was born I am" Jesus is pointing out his divine preexistence.

I said
Although that is a popular opinion, it is just that an opinion.  And because of my revelation from the Holy Spirit I think I'll go with Him.

Well, it doesn't matter what any of us say, or how much we reference scripture, you got a direct revelation, Squeaky.  Very convenient for winning arguments.

Ironically, the revelation you claim you got from the Holy Spirit that you claim only quotes scripture seems to go against the scripture that several of us have quoted here.

I said
Well maybe you got something there. I got a revelation(many, many, scriptures ) and your disputing them with your own opinion and a scripture. I can see a big difference there.

[twd]

So, we're all supposed to accept what you say because the Holy Spirit, who only quotes New Testament scripture, told you so?  And, when all the rest of us quote scripture, that's only our opinion?
Do you see that there is no basis for rational discussion here?  :-\

[Squeakybro]

 Oh I suppose you think it would be better for me to give up the Holy Spirit and the revelations He has given me because twd got one verse.
Do you see alittle arrogance in your opinion?

[twd]

The arrogance I see is in the one who claims to have special revelations that are counter to two millinea of Christian orthodoxy, without any more proof than simple assertion.

[Cliftyman]

Its very simple, Jesus himself said he was God, the Jews recognized that and thats why they sought to crucify him.

If that same being (Jesus) who is God and the Holy Spirit was truly giving you revelations they wouldn't be contradictory to what he already told us in the past.

The revelations you are receiving are not from the Holy Spirit. 

And if you truly had the Holy Spirit you would understand the verse James posted and be more careful about testing the spirits.

I would recommend to you to give yourself to intense prayer and call on the name of God, it seems you are undergoing some intense spiritual warfare..... and personally I don't want to see the wrong side win this fight.

[Arkstfan]

Oh I suppose you think it would be better for me to give up the Holy Spirit and the revelations He has given me because twd got one verse.
Do you see alittle arrogance in your opinion?

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
Galatians 1:8-9

[Squeakybro]

The arrogance I see is in the one who claims to have special revelations that are counter to two millinea of Christian orthodoxy, without any more proof than simple assertion.

I'm sure they said the same thing to Paul and all the other apostles.
There is nothing special about these revelations. They have always been there. You can check every verse they are word for word. The orthodox or many will always be wrong. Its the few that really know the Holy Spirit that will receive these kind of revelations.

Luke 13:24
24   "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
(NKJ)

Matt 7:13-14
13   "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14   "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
(NKJ)

[Squeakybro]

Its very simple, Jesus himself said he was God, the Jews recognized that and thats why they sought to crucify him.

If that same being (Jesus) who is God and the Holy Spirit was truly giving you revelations they wouldn't be contradictory to what he already told us in the past.

The revelations you are receiving are not from the Holy Spirit. 

And if you truly had the Holy Spirit you would understand the verse James posted and be more careful about testing the spirits.

I would recommend to you to give yourself to intense prayer and call on the name of God, it seems you are undergoing some intense spiritual warfare..... and personally I don't want to see the wrong side win this fight.

I said
And it is with your own opinion that you claim Jesus said He was God. What Jesus said was this. That the Father is the only true God. And that Him and I have the very same God and the very same Father.

John 17:1-3

1   Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2   "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3   "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

John 20:17
17   Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

[Squeakybro]

Oh I suppose you think it would be better for me to give up the Holy Spirit and the revelations He has given me because twd got one verse.
Do you see alittle arrogance in your opinion?

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
Galatians 1:8-9

I said
I agree.

Gal 1:8-12
8   But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9   As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
10   For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.
11   But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12   For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
(NKJ)

[twd]

Squeaky,
You are being deluded by some spirit that is speaking words contradictory to the teaching of Christ.  Listen to what Cliftyman and Arkstfan and Lee and others have said.  Their wise words are not those of the way that leads to destruction.

[Arkstfan]

Squeaky you are claiming to have revealed knowledge that conflicts the words of Jesus and the teachings of his apostles.

When you deny Christ being God you are speaking contrary to the apostle John who not only recorded Jesus's claims of divinity but taught them. He declared that anyone who denied Christ's position was an antichrist.

You are proclaiming a false Gospel and teaching heresey. You blaspheme the Holy Spirit by claiming that the Holy Spirit has revealed to you that Christ and his apostles are liars.

[Lee Freeman]

Squeaky, you cannot ignore or twist verses that do fit your narrow views. If what the Bible plainly says contradicts Squeaky's views, then Sequaky's view are wrong and not the Bible.

You haven't dealt with these verses yet.

God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (II Timothy 3:16 KJV)

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. (Colossians 1:15-20 NIV)

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself. . . (Phillippians 2:5-7 NIV)

Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours. . . (II Pet. 1:1 NIV)


Pax.

[Squeakybro]

Squeaky,
You are being deluded by some spirit that is speaking words contradictory to the teaching of Christ.  Listen to what Cliftyman and Arkstfan and Lee and others have said.  Their wise words are not those of the way that leads to destruction.

I said
Are you sure???

Matt 11:25
25   At that time Jesus answered and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 1:19-21
19   For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
20   Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21   For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 1:26
26   For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
(NKJ)

[Arkstfan]

So Squeaky you are actually making the same argument as Mohammed, the Bible is in error or corrupt when Jesus is acknowledged as divine.

[Squeakybro]

 Not so I'm agreeing with the bible. Jesus is divine. And we can have the same divine nature that Jesus has and it won't make us God either.

Acts 17:29-30
29   "Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.
30   "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
(NKJ)

2 Pet 1:4
4   by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
(NKJ)

[Lee Freeman]

Not so I'm agreeing with the bible. Jesus is divine. And we can have the same divine nature that Jesus has and it won't make us God either.

Acts 17:29-30
29   "Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.
30   "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
(NKJ)

2 Pet 1:4
4   by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
(NKJ)

So you agree with the Bible? Then you agree with Peter that Jesus was God:

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ . . . (II Pet. 1:1 NKJV)


Pax.

[Cliftyman]

Squeaky the very verses you are posting should convict you that the Holy Spirit has not given you this revelation...

29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."

We cannot be divine as Christ was and is divine.  If we put our faith in him and obey him we will be given incorruptible bodies.... but they will still be creations of God and of a totally different nature than his physical manifestation in Jesus Christ.

We are not equal to Christ, neither are the Angels.  We should emulate Jesus in all things, but our nature cannot be his, no one can claim his place because unlike him, everything, mankind and angels are all "created".

He simply is I AM.  Without beginning or end.

[Squeakybro]

Not so I'm agreeing with the bible. Jesus is divine. And we can have the same divine nature that Jesus has and it won't make us God either.

Acts 17:29-30
29   "Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.
30   "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
(NKJ)

2 Pet 1:4
4   by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
(NKJ)

So you agree with the Bible? Then you agree with Peter that Jesus was God:

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ . . . (II Pet. 1:1 NKJV)


Pax.

I said
I cant believe you said that. Have you even read the verse you posted.

2 Pet 1:1-2

1   Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
2   Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,
(NKJ)

The second verse defines the first verse. Knowledge of God "and" of Jesus our Lord.
If your going to try and pervert a verse dont use that one. And if your going to make a claim of such exaggeration dont look at what Jesus said.

John 17:1-3

1   Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2   "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3   "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

John 20:17
17   Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

And dont look at what Paul said. One God the Father.

1 Cor 8:6
6   yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

Eph 4:6
6   one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
(NKJ)

Dont you know the difference between circumstantial verses and factual verses??

[Squeakybro]

Squeaky the very verses you are posting should convict you that the Holy Spirit has not given you this revelation...

29"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill. 30In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."

We cannot be divine as Christ was and is divine.  If we put our faith in him and obey him we will be given incorruptible bodies.... but they will still be creations of God and of a totally different nature than his physical manifestation in Jesus Christ.

We are not equal to Christ, neither are the Angels.  We should emulate Jesus in all things, but our nature cannot be his, no one can claim his place because unlike him, everything, mankind and angels are all "created".

He simply is I AM.  Without beginning or end.

I said
What I cant do is sit and listen to you blaspheme the Word of God. You say I cant be a part of the divine and the Word of God say I can. Well duh

2 Pet 1:4
4   by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
(NKJ)

[Cliftyman]

Thats hardly blasphemy Squeaky (defaming the name of God).... and I think there is a quite a difference between partaking in the divine nature of God through faith in Jesus Christ (which no one would doubt, and I believe that in our eternal life we are partaking in his divine nature, but that doesn't mean we are divine).

You can drink pure water and be a "partaking in the pure nature of the water", but that does not make you pure water.

Understand?