I don't get it.

[yogi bear]

James I agree with you but that wont fly with the doubtful. I was just trying to make a point. It all boils down to faith.

[Volkmar]

Seein' as how I don't eat no manna anyhows....

"We walk by faith, not by sight."

Some people believe because God gives them faith.  (Eph. 2:8-10)  well duh.


V

[Shadow]

One thing that I have heard numerous times is that there is no empirical evidence that can show them that God is real.  Those who have said this are usually of a modern scientific thinking on everything and demand hard evidence on just about everything. 

To these kind of people I always ask one question:  who created "the big bang?"  and when they say "it was just there" I reply, "so was God". ;)

People (some people anyway) do not believe, or rather choose not to believe because it is easier for them.  They do not want to have to "follow any rules or moral code of conduct" that would infringe on their carefree way of life.  They like their alcoholism, drug abuse, violence, sexual immorality, lust and greed and God does not fit in with their life styles...hence why there is a "god" tailor made for everyone, even if that "god" is science.
Some choose to not believe for the fear of "hell".  The world at large has deluted its self into thinking that everyone goes to Heaven when they die and that is not only a ridiculous frame of mind, but also a completly unrealistic one.  We are all sooooo sure that Grandma and Grandpa are in Heaven....well, what about Ted Bundy, Hitler, or Jeffery Dolhmer?  Are they in Heaven or are they in Hell?  Who's to say that Grandma and Grandpa are in Heaven either?  Just because *I* loved them dearly and think they are the two greatest, most wonderful people on the planet, doesn't mean that God agrees with me.  So what if Grandma and Grandpa were excellent grandparents to *me*, what if they were abusive to my parents?  What if Grandpa was a pedaphile and Grandma knew it but chose to look the other way? 
Ok, I'm starting to ramble off topic here...sorry :D
Anyway, the reasons people choose to not believe are as numerous as the people themselves.

[JackinGA]

Why do some people not believe? 

Because they see no reason why they should.

/

Is it therefore unreasonable to believe in God?

[spurly]

Why would anyone not believe in the might Creator and the Lord of Heaven and Earth who sent his son to die for us?

[FFC]

Why would anyone not believe in the might Creator and the Lord of Heaven and Earth who sent his son to die for us?

Because it's not something that a person can see or feel or wrap their minds completely around in a rational way. Those things might, on a good day, take you so far, but It eventually boils down to faith.

We are all born selfish and proud and many have a hard time thinking that there is someone out there that we will have to answer to, or even if we can accept that there is a God we think that we're really not so bad that we deserve hell. These are all legitimate rational thoughts aren't they? It's almost like somebody is whispering these things in our ears.  Oh wait, yeah, there is.

[Dagan]

Why would anyone not believe in the might Creator and the Lord of Heaven and Earth who sent his son to die for us?

     Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.


       It seems, at many times, the problem is not belief in God, or that this God is a mighty Creator and that he has interacted with his creation in many ways. But it seems to be the habit of man to conform God to a palatable image for oneself, and not the image of God given us from the Biblical account, which is true.

[spurly]

And for that my friend, you deserve manna.

[Dagan]

And for that my friend, you deserve manna.

Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

And for that you get some manna as well. I know I might be taking that verse out of context, but you get the idea.

[Petey]

Why do some people not believe? 

God like santa claus is fun to believe in until you grow up and know better.  As a species we need to grow up.  The world would be a better place.

[unionstcoc]

Why do some people not believe? 

God like santa claus is fun to believe in until you grow up and know better.  As a species we need to grow up.  The world would be a better place.

Dear Petey,

I gather you don't believe in God.

God Bless
Ken

[Petey]

Why do some people not believe? 

God like santa claus is fun to believe in until you grow up and know better.  As a species we need to grow up.  The world would be a better place.

Dear Petey,

I gather you don't believe in God.

God Bless
Ken

Dear Ken,
No I don't.  I hope that's not a problem.  I'd like to understand why people do believe.  I'm quite open minded and hope to find like minded people here.
Petey

[unionstcoc]

Would you be so kind as to tell me why you do not believe in God.

God Bless
Ken Mathews

[Petey]

Would you be so kind as to tell me why you do not believe in God.

God Bless
Ken Mathews

Hi Ken,
Certainly.  There are thousands of reasons I don't believe but the short answer, and one you may be able to identify with, is that I don't believe in God for the same reasons I don't believe in Santa Claus.  Santa was fun to believe in as a child but as I grew up I realized that he doesn't exist - can't exist.  I can easily see how humans would need to create answers (gods & religions) to all the unknowns when we were young as a species.  Today we understand so much more about this universe and our place in it.  Simply put, I don't need a god.  Why do you believe/need?
Petey

[unionstcoc]

Would you be so kind as to tell me why you do not believe in God.

God Bless
Ken Mathews

Hi Ken,
Certainly.  There are thousands of reasons I don't believe but the short answer, and one you may be able to identify with, is that I don't believe in God for the same reasons I don't believe in Santa Claus.  Santa was fun to believe in as a child but as I grew up I realized that he doesn't exist - can't exist.  I can easily see how humans would need to create answers (gods & religions) to all the unknowns when we were young as a species.  Today we understand so much more about this universe and our place in it.  Simply put, I don't need a god.  Why do you believe/need?
Petey

Petey,

If I were to prove to you that there is a God that does exist and created all mankind with proof that you likely never heard.  Would that begin to change your thinking about whether there is a God.

It would also answer the question you asked me-"Why do you believe/need?"

Fair enough.

I don't want to push that is why I am asking.

God Bless
Ken Mathews

[Petey]

Petey,

If I were to prove to you that there is a God that does exist and created all mankind with proof that you likely never heard.  Would that begin to change your thinking about whether there is a God.

It would also answer the question you asked me-"Why do you believe/need?"

I don't want to push that is why I am asking.

God Bless
Ken Mathews

Fair enough.  I'm here to learn.

[unionstcoc]

Petey,

Your more than gracious, I thank you for that.  So here goes.

There are a few truths that exist within the soul and heart of every human being. They are so simple that most people miss the simple truth behind them.

I will deal with one, less I muddy the water (and I tend to do that sometimes).

I am assuming for sake of argument that because  you do not believe there is one all consuming God, the creator of everything in the known universe you do not believe the Bible is the inspired word of God.

I am guessing that most believers have tried to prove to you that God exist by using external facts. I will only use internal facts. That is the internal truths that are in you as a person.

A truth that resides in every human being is the fact the people want to love and be loved. People need love. As they grow to adulthood the way they find love changes. But at the outset all human beings want to be loved and love.

Granted love means different things to you then it does to me or anyone else. How we feel loved is like a kaleidoscope, it changes as we turn the time of our life as we grow and mature.

In Genesis 1:26 we read - Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

You may be saying, "But I don't believe in the bible so this verse means nothing to me.

[Petey]

Ken,
I believe the bible is a very interesting book written by men, edited by men, compiled by men and interpreted by men.  Are you saying that the capacity for love inside me is evidence that God exists?  You feel that we could not have love without a loving creator?  We are created in his image so we have love?  What about hate, rage, insecurity, anxiety, depression, etc.  Do we have those emotions because the creator has them too?  I don't understand.
Thanks,
Petey

[James Rondon]

Petey, if you came to believe that God existed, what would be the consequences?

[Petey]

Petey, if you came to believe that God existed, what would be the consequences?

Hi James,
If I believed God existed it wouldn't change anything in the way I live my life.  I'm a good person in any sense of the word.  I'm a good person because it's the right thing to do.  I suppose if I believed in God I'd be a good person going to heaven instead of a good person going to hell.  That's a consequence I suppose.  When you asked your question what did you think my answer was going to be?  If you don't mind me asking, what would the consequences be in your life if you knew that God did not exist?  I imagine it would be quite traumatic for you but I don't want to make any assumptions.

[normfromga]

Petey, if you came to believe that God existed, what would be the consequences?

Hi James,
If I believed God existed it wouldn't change anything in the way I live my life.  I'm a good person in any sense of the word.  I'm a good person because it's the right thing to do.  I suppose if I believed in God I'd be a good person going to heaven instead of a good person going to hell.  That's a consequence I suppose.  When you asked your question what did you think my answer was going to be?  If you don't mind me asking, what would the consequences be in your life if you knew that God did not exist?  I imagine it would be quite traumatic for you but I don't want to make any assumptions.

But what is the good of doing/being good?

I mean, if you could take something that didn't belong to you, but that you wanted/needed, knowing that it would not be missed and that you would never be caught, would you do it?

If not, why not?  If so, is that "good" by your definition?

[Petey]

Petey, if you came to believe that God existed, what would be the consequences?

Hi James,
If I believed God existed it wouldn't change anything in the way I live my life.  I'm a good person in any sense of the word.  I'm a good person because it's the right thing to do.  I suppose if I believed in God I'd be a good person going to heaven instead of a good person going to hell.  That's a consequence I suppose.  When you asked your question what did you think my answer was going to be?  If you don't mind me asking, what would the consequences be in your life if you knew that God did not exist?  I imagine it would be quite traumatic for you but I don't want to make any assumptions.

But what is the good of doing/being good?

I mean, if you could take something that didn't belong to you, but that you wanted/needed, knowing that it would not be missed and that you would never be caught, would you do it?

If not, why not?  If so, is that "good" by your definition?

Hello again,
I treat people the way I want to be treated.  Since I want people to treat me well I treat people well.  I don't want people to steal from me so I don't steal from people.  I live my life by these rules because they make sense to me.
Petey

[unionstcoc]

Are you saying that the capacity for love inside me is evidence that God exists?  You feel that we could not have love without a loving creator?  We are created in his image so we have love? 

Dear Petey,

Think about it.  A loving God creates man and every man/woman has a great need to love and be loved.  An evil man or good man both have this very need in them.

What about hate, rage, insecurity, anxiety, depression, etc.  Do we have those emotions because the creator has them too?  I don't understand.

I was hoping you would ask this very thing.

Man's need for love and a few other soul motivated things come from man's very center being his soul or spirit, which ever term you care to use.  The negative emotions you mentioned are a result of man's physical self trying to find love, happiness and peace not realizing those needs come from his very soul.

So man spends his life trying to find those things in physical things such as people, places or things.  But they are always short lived.  The fact all men are created this way shows that the one true God is real.

God Bless
Ken Mathews

[Petey]

I was hoping you would ask this very thing.

Man's need for love and a few other soul motivated things come from man's very center being his soul or spirit, which ever term you care to use.  The negative emotions you mentioned are a result of man's physical self trying to find love, happiness and peace not realizing those needs come from his very soul.

So man spends his life trying to find those things in physical things such as people, places or things.  But they are always short lived.  The fact all men are created this way shows that the one true God is real.

God Bless
Ken Mathews

Hi Ken,

So we are made up of a soul and a physical body.  The physical self tries to satisfy the souls cravings with things in the physical world which results in negative emotions because the physical world will always let us down.  These cravings will only be satisfied fully in the spiritual world by accepting the never ending love of God.

Sounds good but I know God does not exist.  I know that when my brain ceases functioning my soul does not continue on.  I know these things and yet I am at peace with the world, I am happy, I am loved and accepted.  I want for nothing.  If as you say all men are created the way you describe how do you explain me?

I believe gods were invented by men for many reasons but one of the main reasons was to have the equivalent of a childs invisible friend.  Someone to understand us and accept us and love us.  After all, we are a very resourceful species.  If we need something and don't have it we will invent it.

[DCR]

Sounds good but I know God does not exist. 

How do you know God does not exist?

[Petey]

Sounds good but I know God does not exist. 

How do you know God does not exist?

For the same reasons you know Santa Claus does not exist.  If I was to start a list it would take me weeks to complete.
Petey

[Jaime]

Hi Petey,

I have been following this thread for a while and I appreciate your openness and willingness to share. I understand that you don't believe in God. I would like to ask you a question, "Do you believe in the existence of the wind?" If so, why?  I hope you don't think I am being facetious.

Blessings,
Jaime

[Petey]

Hi Petey,

I have been following this thread for a while and I appreciate your openness and willingness to share. I understand that you don't believe in God. I would like to ask you a question, "Do you believe in the existence of the wind?" If so, why?  I hope you don't think I am being facetious.

Blessings,
Jaime

Hi Jaime,
I know the wind exists for a hundred reasons but simply put it can be measured.  This is a trick question right?
Petey

PS Just noticed you're from Midland.  I got my EE from Texas Tech in the early 80s.

[unionstcoc]

Hi Petey,

I have been following this thread for a while and I appreciate your openness and willingness to share. I understand that you don't believe in God. I would like to ask you a question, "Do you believe in the existence of the wind?" If so, why?  I hope you don't think I am being facetious.

Blessings,
Jaime

Hi Jaime,
I know the wind exists for a hundred reasons but simply put it can be measured.  This is a trick question right?
Petey

PS Just noticed you're from Midland.  I got my EE from Texas Tech in the early 80s.

Petey,

Your a literal thinker, yes.

I am at work, so can't post like I can at home.  I will continue our line of reasoning. 

You see I have worked with athiest.  After a few years I discovered what I call inner evidence for God as opposed to outer evidence.  I discovered this truth for proving God's existence has never really been used per say.  And it had a big impact not only with athiest but many others.

Again, you have a great spirit about you that I fine very refreshing.

God Bless
Ken Mathews

[Jaime]

Petey,

It is a question that Billy Graham asked in one of his sermons. You can't see the wind, but you can see the effects of the wind. You know it exists because you see the results of the wind. I am a very analytical person, an engineer specifically. I believe there is a God because his creation screams the evidence of his hand.

I apologize at my effort of throwing 2nd hand snippets at you; however, I would like to recommend a book to you that really helped quell any of my persistant doubts:

        A Case for a Creator - by Lee Strobel

Mr. Stroebel was an atheist and wanted to systematically prove that God does not exist. I'll leave the rest to your reading if that interests you. You are a very articulate guy and the fact that you are here on this board says to me that you are open to giving the opposing view a chance.

Thank you for your cordial responses,

Jaime

PS, yes I am a Red Raider (Class of 1975) Construction Engineering Technology. I have lived in Midland for 22 years. Grew up in Shallowater 8 miles NW of Lubbock.

[unionstcoc]

Petey,

It is a question that Billy Graham asked in one of his sermons. You can't see the wind, but you can see the effects of the wind. You know it exists because you see the results of the wind. I am a very analytical person, an engineer specifically. I believe there is a God because his creation screams the evidence of his hand.

I apologize at the my effort of throwing 2nd hand snippets at you; however, I would like to recommend a book to you that really helped quell any of my persistant doubts:

        A Case for a Creator - by Lee Stroebel

Mr. Stroebel was an atheist and wanted to systematically prove that God does not exist. I'll leave the rest to your reading if that interests you. You are a very articulate guy and the fact that you are here on this board says to me that you are open to giving the opposing view a chance.

Thank you for cordial responses,

Jaime

PS, yes I am a Red Raider (Class of 1975) Construction Engineering Technology. I have lived in Midland for 22 years. Grew up in Shallowater 8 miles NW of Lubbock.

Dear Jaime,

Very good post.  I think Petey will like it very much.

Your right, Petey is a very cordial person, I am enjoying these two threads.

God Bless
Ken Mathews

[Jaime]

Thank you Ken, I too am enjoying this thread.

Blessings,
Jaime

[Petey]

Petey,

It is a question that Billy Graham asked in one of his sermons. You can't see the wind, but you can see the effects of the wind. You know it exists because you see the results of the wind. I am a very analytical person, an engineer specifically. I believe there is a God because his creation screams the evidence of his hand.

I apologize at the my effort of throwing 2nd hand snippets at you; however, I would like to recommend a book to you that really helped quell any of my persistant doubts:

        A Case for a Creator - by Lee Strobel

Mr. Stroebel was an atheist and wanted to systematically prove that God does not exist. I'll leave the rest to your reading if that interests you. You are a very articulate guy and the fact that you are here on this board says to me that you are open to giving the opposing view a chance.

Thank you for your cordial responses,

Jaime

PS, yes I am a Red Raider (Class of 1975) Construction Engineering Technology. I have lived in Midland for 22 years. Grew up in Shallowater 8 miles NW of Lubbock.

Thanks Jaime I'll read the book.
Petey

[Petey]

PS, yes I am a Red Raider (Class of 1975) Construction Engineering Technology. I have lived in Midland for 22 years. Grew up in Shallowater 8 miles NW of Lubbock.

Small world isn't it? 

[Petey]

Your right, Petey is a very cordial person, I am enjoying these two threads.

Thanks guys.  Like I said in an earlier post, I try to treat people the way I'd like to be treated myself.
Chat with you later Ken.
Petey