War is necessary

[Booty]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Nelta @ Oct. 02 2002,1:19)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Another aspect of the war question.  I don't believe any of us think it is wrong for the civil government to go to war.  God gave it authority to take care of the unruly.

Did He give the Christian that duty?  Did He not say, "Ye are the light of the world...the salt of the earth?"  He didn't say that to the civil government.  He gave different positions to the government than to  His children.  His children are to take on the character of Jesus and shine His light that they might find the Lord.  He didn't tell the civil government to bring the sinners to Him.  Two different enities...two different purposes.

Thanks,

Nelta

nib
Nelta Brock
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Excuse me Nelta, but please do not include me in your presumptions. I truly and wholly believe it is wrong before God for the civil government to engage in warfare.

[Nelta]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (david johnson @ Oct. 03 2002,00:22)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]nelta:

are you going to converse with the posters here, or just provide us with opinions?

dj[/quote]
dj, I would like to converse if I could get a word in edge-way.  I think it was Booty who said he did not believe in war...period.  All I can say is Rom. 13 gives such a right to the civil government.

Nelta

[david johnson]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Nelta @ Oct. 03 2002,06:03)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--][!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]nelta:

are you going to converse with the posters here, or just provide us with opinions?

dj[/quote]
dj, I would like to converse if I could get a word in edge-way.  I think it was Booty who said he did not believe in war...period.  All I can say is Rom. 13 gives such a right to the civil government.

Nelta[/quote]
fire away nelta.

dj

[david johnson]

nelta:

how did you define the 'Christ living in the heart' idea, i.e., philosophical, spiritual, or ...?

why would you limit Christ's power by saying it must not exist in government leaders?  i suppose He existis where ever he darn well pleases without consulting either of us.

dj

[Nelta]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (JerryBrooke @ Oct. 03 2002,4:31)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I don't see in the New Testament where anyone has the authority to go to the bathroom.[/quote]
Jerry, this doesn't sound like something you would say.  I don't get your drift.

Nelta

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[david johnson]

nelta:

yes, i know things that have more emotion connected to them than christians going to war.

i was asking how you presented the 'Christ in you' concept, not saying i didn't believe something.

repeating a thought---the Lord will dwell and dominate where He pleases.  do you know a power that can prevent that?

dj

[Lacy]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Nelta,

It is your opinion that:

War by civil government is in keeping with the teachings of Jesus because,
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]The civil government was given authority to run the business of the world....as far as taking care of the unruly.  Rom. 13.[/quote]

I most definitely do not share your opinion.[/quote]
C.S.Lewis was not pleased with war or trying to justify it, but he said that when a man has to engage in a just attemp to destroy his enemies for the good of all, he should get his opponent in his sight and say, "Sorry brother to have to do this but I must (not his exact words, but expresses his idea about a Christians attitude and war)."

Lacy

[Booty]

Lacy,

CS Lewis was headed in the right direction, I just feel he and we should go further.

I believe it is indeed "Turn the other cheek". Christ who was and is all powerful chose to turn the other cheek and mount the Cross voluntarily. I only hope and pray that should it ever come to that, I will have the courage to follow him. Possibly I do, I have medals from two nations attesting to my service, but somehow I feel I am yet to demonstrate true courage.

Perhaps I will find out soon, it seems we are soon to cry havok and let slip the dog's of war. May God have mercy on our souls.

[Nelta]

Another aspect of the war question.  I don't believe any of us think it is wrong for the civil government to go to war.  God gave it authority to take care of the unruly.

Did He give the Christian that duty?  Did He not say, "Ye are the light of the world...the salt of the earth?"  He didn't say that to the civil government.  He gave different positions to the government than to  His children.  His children are to take on the character of Jesus and shine His light that they might find the Lord.  He didn't tell the civil government to bring the sinners to Him.  Two different enities...two different purposes.

Thanks,

Nelta

nib
Nelta Brock
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[david johnson]

nelta:

are you going to converse with the posters here, or just provide us with opinions?

dj

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Nelta @ Oct. 02 2002,1:19)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Another aspect of the war question.  I don't believe any of us think it is wrong for the civil government to go to war.  God gave it authority to take care of the unruly.

Did He give the Christian that duty?  Did He not say, "Ye are the light of the world...the salt of the earth?"  He didn't say that to the civil government.  He gave different positions to the government than to  His children.  His children are to take on the character of Jesus and shine His light that they might find the Lord.  He didn't tell the civil government to bring the sinners to Him.  Two different enities...two different purposes.

Thanks,

Nelta

nib
Nelta Brock
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Who is the civil government, i.e., how is it manned, if not by people?  Might many of those people be Christians.

[Nelta]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Guest @ Oct. 03 2002,06:58)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]

Another aspect of the war question.  I don't believe any of us think it is wrong for the civil government to go to war.  God gave it authority to take care of the unruly.

Did He give the Christian that duty?  Did He not say, "Ye are the light of the world...the salt of the earth?"  He didn't say that to the civil government.  He gave different positions to the government than to  His children.  His children are to take on the character of Jesus and shine His light that they might find the Lord.  He didn't tell the civil government to bring the sinners to Him.  Two different enities...two different purposes.

Thanks,

Nelta


Who is the civil government, i.e., how is it manned, if not by people?  Might many of those people be Christians.

The civil government was given authority to run the business of the world....as far as taking care of the unruly.  Rom. 13.

Of course, men run the civil government.....men of the world.  Can Christians be the men that run that government? No!  They have a different calling.  They have the mind of Christ.  Christ is living through them.  I just finished a written debate on this subject on the ReligiousDebate list.  One person wanted to know why Christ wouldn't live in a Christian as he went to war and killed.  My question was:  Does Christ live in the heart of a Christian over here who goes to war and kills another Christian....while Christ was also living in the heart of the one killed?

This is just one aspect of killing for the government.  I realize this should be on the subject of Christians killing Christians but I tried to reply on that one and it didn't work.  I will readily admit I am not that familar with how to work within this  forum. Also, I do not see a spell-checker.

Nelta

[Bon Voyage]

I don't see in the New Testament where anyone has the authority to go to the bathroom.

[Nelta]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (david johnson @ Oct. 03 2002,1:07)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]nelta:

how did you define the 'Christ living in the heart' idea, i.e., philosophical, spiritual, or ...?

why would you limit Christ's power by saying it must not exist in government leaders?  i suppose He existis where ever he darn well pleases without consulting either of us.

dj[/quote]
Do you not believe that spiritually Christ dwells in our hearts?  For instance,  "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.....Christ working in us."  Of course, He lives in us spiritually since He is a Spirit.

But to carry it further.....Jesus' teaching while on earth molded the disciples character as they/we took on his teaching.

Do you believe Christ dwells in those of the world?

BTW do you know of ANYTHING that has more emotion connected to it than Christians going to war?

Nelta

Nelta Brock
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[Bon Voyage]

My point was we don't have scriptural authority for a lot of things we do but we seem to bring up needing scriptural authority for the things we don't like.

[Booty]

Nelta,

It is your opinion that:

War by civil government is in keeping with the teachings of Jesus because,
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]The civil government was given authority to run the business of the world....as far as taking care of the unruly.  Rom. 13.[/quote]

I most definitely do not share your opinion.

[janine]

"BTW do you know of ANYTHING that has more emotion connected to it than Christians going to war?" -- Nelta

Possibly abortion.  Government-funded, paid-from-my-tax-pocket abortions.  Performed on babies old enough to be viable outside the womb.  In uninspected, not-handled-like-medical-facilities "abortuaries".  Performed for what most thinking people would consider to be stupid reasons.

Other than that, I can't think of much more incendiary than your Christians-in-war topic.


" Does Christ live in the heart of a Christian over here who goes to war and kills another Christian....while Christ was also living in the heart of the one killed?" -- Nelta

Why not?  Do you know with pinpoint soapbox accuracy at what point the Lord, and thus the salvation, leaves any one man?

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Lacy @ Oct. 04 2002,02:36)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--][!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Nelta,

It is your opinion that:

War by civil government is in keeping with the teachings of Jesus because,
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]The civil government was given authority to run the business of the world....as far as taking care of the unruly.  Rom. 13.[/quote]

I most definitely do not share your opinion.[/quote]
C.S.Lewis was not pleased with war or trying to justify it, but he said that when a man has to engage in a just attemp to destroy his enemies for the good of all, he should get his opponent in his sight and say, "Sorry brother to have to do this but I must (not his exact words, but expresses his idea about a Christians attitude and war)."

Lacy[/quote]
Right on Lacy.   If Christians are supposed to be a flock of defenseless sheep, it follows that there must be shepherds to protect them.  In the animal kingdom the wolves prevail over the sheep, but we're supposed to have a higher calling in life than wild animals.  Wolves kill for food, and the sheep survive by prolific breeding.  Guess we could just become cannibals, feast on each other, and then breed like heck to make up the shortfall in the food supply.  Doesn't sound like what Jesus had in mind to me?