On visiting Otter Creek Church of Christ

[Phil Wilson]

The "rap" video is called "That's My King" and it's on one of the Igniter Videos. I've also got a link somewhere that has the whole sermon, but can't get to my Otter Creek email account right now. Once I do, I'll put it here.

btw, I'd encourage anyone who can make it to come out next Sunday night at 6. We're doing an Easter Celebration at the building with chorus and band and it's going to be really good. I'll be up in the tech booth, where Peck found me, but I'd love to meet any of you that can make it out.

[tidbit]

Lonely People was sung by America, I believe.

I was thinking about Eleanor Rigby, by the Fab Four.

[twd]

Lonely People was sung by America, I believe.

I was thinking about Eleanor Rigby, by the Fab Four.

"Ah, look at all the lonely people."

[Phil Wilson]

Here's the That's My King sermon.

http://www.theiowaharvest.com/harvestholler/archives/000085.html

[melissaroyster]

 Thank you so much Mr. Wilson

[Phil Wilson]

"Mr."?

[melissaroyster]

Is it DR.?  Reverend?  Capt.?  Sgt.?   

Just joking with you.  You see, I turned 33 yesterday, and there is just something about addressing someone as "Mr." that makes me at least feel young. 
Sorry it was at your expense!  Thanks again for the website.  Maybe me and my family will meet you sometime at OC. 

Melissa

[Phil Wilson]

That's ok. I'm turning 35 this year, so we're not that far from each other. Look forward to meeting you at some point.

[PEGGY JOYCE]

peck     you thrill my heart.   I agree with memmy, someone your age that can accept change is so refreshing.  My brother-in-law was like that before he died at age 73.

You'll never know how much your post meant to me.   God bless you richly, brother!

Peggy

[ollie]

Seems like the reformation continues.

Since, when, the 1500s? It moves on, ever changing as men are born, institute their ideas, die and new ones come along with other ideas.

As the song started playing, the guy I had just met turned to me and said, "You never know what to expect here" (or something to that

Seems very reminiscent of the "Jesus freaks" during our historical hippy era.

"Do your own thing"

ollie

[Jimbob]

It's interesting.  I keep hearing that sermon, word for word, but by different people.  Don't know who actually wrote it, but I wonder if credit's ever given?  It's very similar to one on an Acappells cd as well.

[peck]

Peggy and Memmy,

Thank you so much for your kind words...

God bless,Peck

[Lee Freeman]

That's ok. I'm turning 35 this year, so we're not that far from each other. Look forward to meeting you at some point.

I'm 36. Ahh, to be 33 again!

Pax.

[WileyClarkson]

Melissa,


appreciate the efforts.  BTW, I'm 57 and love the positive changes I'm seeing in various congregations.  Some change is slowly occuring in our congregation.  However, where women are concerned about 2/3rds oc the men would freak if a woman was allowed to say anything at all except sing    We have do have a praise team (although it is called different to avoid problems with those that can't handle the phrase praise team   ) that is composed of 1 male and 3 females  BTW, my oldest daughter is 30 years old so you are not much off my own kids ages.  The other two will be 28 on May 11 and post here once in a while as Kristie and Kat (Kathie).  My oldest, Shannon, is the Children's Minister at the Kingwood CoC in Kingwood, TX, on the n.e. boundary of Houston.


Phil,

thanks for the link.  I'm getting ready to look at it!

[ollie]

"Everything old is new again".

What goes around comes around.

Change that is.

[melissaroyster]

Hey Wiley,

So I guess there is no chance the church you attend would purchase the videos for you?     Maybe you could trickle them in slowly, say, for a men's prayer breakfast or retreat, or get your wife to use one at a ladies retreat/class.  I better stop.  I am beginning to sound like a "change agent".  My husband just laughed out loud.     You have yourself a nice night there in Texas!  Alabama was just beautiful today. 

Melissa Royster

[Nevertheless]

That's ok. I'm turning 35 this year, so we're not that far from each other. Look forward to meeting you at some point.

I'm 36. Ahh, to be 33 again!

Pax.

Hubby turned 48 on the first of this month.  Interesting the different outlooks on that.  Daughter asked how old Dad would be this year and responded, "48!?!?  That's OLD!!"  A friend called to wish him a happy birthday and asked how old he was.  His response: "Oooo 48!  .  .  .   Oh to be 48 again!"

[melissaroyster]

My Husband is 46-not far from 48!  But me, just a mere 33 can't imagine what the forties will be like!  Is that when you have to start looking into dentures?
well the ambien cr is kicking in and I am slowly fading.  peace out.

Have a blessed evening everyone.

Melissa

[peck]

Hehe...You folks are barely out of the diaper stage...Life is just beginning for you...

When I was your age,an elderly man was riding with me as I was delivering some furniture to his vacation house on the lake..Boy,was I impressed...retired,wealthy,a place to fish,a place in town,free to get up and do what he wanted...But,as I gloated over those things...He said to me...Son,don't wait to enjoy life when you are old like me...Enjoy life each day,while your health is good..Then I realized that his health was keeping him from enjoying the pleasures that was tempting me..It stuck in my mind..While it's nice to have those things he had,the most important advice was to make time to be with the kids..with the wife..with friends..doing pleasant things together..and then when you're old..You have precious memories..A mind full of precious memories is a wise mind...

Sorry for my long posts,I just like to pass along the advice old people gave to me..

God bless,Peck

[WileyClarkson]

Melissa,

"change agent" 

Hey, I wear that label proudly.  Take a look at my web site page called "where the Spirit Leads" and you will see why 

I got the video clip with the audio just fine off the link.  I'm going to pass it on to our preaching minister.  He will love it.  A couple of our elders saw it last year at Stream in the Desert.  They plus two or three other elders) would have no objections to showing it in the morning assemblies.  However, the other 9 or ten would object.  We are slowly moving forward.  However, it is slow because of the reluctance among the majority of our elders to challenge comfort zones.  They are afraid of loosing members or causing discomfort in regards to changes that push people out of ther boxes. 

Our congregation is pretty unique in its makeup.  Presently, we are around 900 members with wide ranging views and positions from ultra traditional (prefer the 70's patternistic thinking/NI format) to very progressive (willing to restudy and resthink any issue and prefer a contemporary format).  We have very few members who have been around more than 10 years with the average now around 6 to 7 years, and about 50% over 60 years old.  Lots of move into Granbury because of job or retirement, then move out back out style of living in our area.  Some of the most progressive of our members are the retiree's and some of the most traditional/conservative are some of the younger father's who have been raised in small country congregations that are basically a mix of ultra-traditional and NI views and they have come to Granbury CoC looking for classes and activities for their kids, which are basically non-existant in many of the smaller congregations in our area.  It's an interesting congregation to be a part of!

[DCR]

Wiley,

I think what you describe can be said of many (most?) large mainstream CofCs nowadays.  In many cases, a spectrum of views and comfort zones exists even within the same congregation.  For church leaders, it becomes a balancing act between appealing to the conservatives versus the progressives in the congregation.

[kalen]

DCR, thanks for your initial "low down" of Otter Creek.  It sounds a great deal like the way we worship at Woodmont.  My husband and I have talked about visiting Otter Creek, just to say "howdy" to our family there, and it looks like we'll be met with a very uplifting experience.  Thanks for sharing.  :-)

[Jimbob]

Wiley,

I think what you describe can be said of many (most?) large mainstream CofCs nowadays.  In many cases, a spectrum of views and comfort zones exists even within the same congregation.  For church leaders, it becomes a balancing act between appealing to the conservatives versus the progressives in the congregation.

Ours is not a problem of "appealing" to the different groups, but of keeping the peace between them.  It gets so tiring.  We're small, but have the entire spectrum from Wiley to the guys worked up a tizzy over jtw.   

[DCR]

What's "jtw"?

[boringoldguy]

John T. Wayne
The Duke
a/ka/ ahnog
You know -
the former NI cofC preacher who had a revelation and published a book about how everything he used to think was wrong and challenged some guy to a debate in some midwestern city and put up a website and asked for people to buy autographed copies of his book and 35 preachers from different NI churches wailed on him and he quit his preaching job?
That guy.

[DCR]

Oh ok.  I knew that was short for JohnTWayne. 

But, I thought maybe it was an abbreviation for something else in the context of jmg's post... maybe some issue that people in jmg's church get worked up over.

You know...

IM = instrumental music
MDR = Marriage, Divorce, Remarriage
SOF = Sign out front
NI = Non-institutional
JTW = ?

But, I see now that he probably meant that there are those in his church that have the same thinking as those who got worked up over JohnTWayne.

All these abbreviations.

[WileyClarkson]

DCR,

out of curiosity, in your view, which group is the most non-traditional in these broad based churches:  the young parents or the senior citizens?  At GCOC, the senior citizens are the most non-traditional, willing to push the envelope, bust out of the box, rethink the old views group.  The young parents who have typically graduated from Christian universities and are coming into our congregation are by far the most legalistic, and paternistic group in our congregation.  That has been a real surprise to our eldership this year as they have been looking at a number of issues.

[DCR]

Wiley, if I were to make a guess, I would say... the baby boomer generation (40s-50s).  Those over 60 are still very conservative over all for the most part, from what I can tell.  I imagine that this might depend on the area you're talking about.  I can only speak for how things appear to be where I live.

I know what you mean about some younger generations possibly being a little more conservative than their parents' generation on some things.  I was talking to a 25-year-old recently.  The church where he grew up has become very progressive, and he is not comfortable going there with some of the changes that have taken place.  So, he now attends where I do.  Ironically, his uncle is an elder at that particular congregation.  I asked him if he thought he was more conservative than his parents and aunt and uncle, and he said he was.

Here's my possible theory on that... I suspect that the generation raised in a much more legalistic CofC (baby boomers) are seeking the freedom of breaking the bounds of legalism, whereas their children (not having been raised in such a legalistic environment) feel insecure and uncomfortable about some of the changes occurring in the churches where they grew up.  So, maybe the pendulum swings back the other way a little with some of the younger ones.

Just a possibility, for what it's worth.

It's not true in every case.  I would have to say that some of the boldest about change tend to be in their 20s and 30s.  So, it's a mix. 

[normfromga]

A lot of us Boomers rebelled against our parents' values, and now our kids are rebelling against ours.  It is quite natural.

After all, don't kids often relate with grandparents better than their parents?

Another thing is that I am thinking that most of our "change agents" will be found among the boomers, not the gen-x-ers or whatever they are called.

Liberal or conservative, I think today's kids will seek a Bible believing church that fits their style, regardless of the SOF, and not try to rock anybody else's boat, or faith.

IMO...

[DCR]

A lot of us Boomers rebelled against our parents' values, and now our kids are rebelling against ours.  It is quite natural.

After all, don't kids often relate with grandparents better than their parents?

That same idea has also crossed my mind.

[peck]

My thoughts are that your generation will be facing the most difficult transitions in the fellowship of the CoC that has been before...taking the role of women as spectators to involvement...and whether to accept baptism as a divine command without the necessity of understanding ...

Just my thoughts...

God bless,Peck

[memmy]

A lot of us Boomers rebelled against our parents' values, and now our kids are rebelling against ours.  It is quite natural.

That may be the case for some, but for me, I would have much rather been able to have felt as if I didn't need to "move" my family at all.

I would have loved to have not been made out to be as someone rocking the boat, and it would have made it much easier if I didn't feel God said there is more, and you are missing out.

I never set out to be rebellious in my moving away from the traditional "norm", and I seriously doubt those truly seeking God who have left where they were "comfy" but with a feeling there is more to this whole think called life. Most who are truly seeking God more, are doing so for Him, not as a rebellion .

I guess I should just speak for myself, but those are my thoughts.

Memmy

[Skip]

A lot of us Boomers rebelled against our parents' values, and now our kids are rebelling against ours.  It is quite natural.

After all, don't kids often relate with grandparents better than their parents?

That same idea has also crossed my mind.

I also concur.
The pattern is obvious and widespread.

The boomer generation is now a strong majority within the eldership age bracket. And now they have the opportunity to shape the church into what they thought it should've been back in the 60s and 70s.

So autonomy rears its head -- the elderships go off in every direction. And those on the outside looking in are seeing the obvious -- a reemergence of the radical 60s and 70s spirit, a sort of midlife crisis among the elderships.

And since the congregations are autonomous, and elderships are often reflective of culture, what happens?
Worship gets hip.

Meanwhile, the younger generation is horrified by the excesses of the elderships.
Strange, isn't it?

[normfromga]

My thoughts are that your generation will be facing the most difficult transitions in the fellowship of the CoC that has been before...taking the role of women as spectators to involvement...and whether to accept baptism as a divine command without the necessity of understanding ...

Just my thoughts...

God bless,Peck

I guess our congregation has been blessed.

I don't think it ever preached non-involvement of women nor baptism without understanding.

God Bless,

Norm

[tidbit]

Wiley,

I think what you describe can be said of many (most?) large mainstream CofCs nowadays.  In many cases, a spectrum of views and comfort zones exists even within the same congregation.  For church leaders, it becomes a balancing act between appealing to the conservatives versus the progressives in the congregation.

I find it amuzing that the CoC, whose primary objective is to restore the first century church, feels the need for evolving worship styles.  It's an admission that maybe we never got back to the first century, and we don't intend to go back to the first century any time soon.