Is anybody else confused??

[EruditeJoy]

I was talking to a couple of my single Christian girlfriends and the topic of dating (or lack thereof) came up...of course.

There seems to be a trend that is frustrating many single Christian women (and I suppose men).  The time span that they have between dates can be measured in months...or, frequently, YEARS.  I know this is true for me.

There were many reasons cited for this situation but the prevelant reason that I keep hearing is:  Single Christian men just aren't stepping up to the plate and assuming the leadership role.

I have found this to be very true in my situation but, I can't help but ask:  Who says that we are supposed to wait?  Can or should a woman ask a man out if she wants?  Haven't times changed?

It seems like this should be a simple "yes" or "no" answer, but I find it more complicated than that.  Many men are turned off or intimidated by a woman who would be so forward as to initiate an official date.  Yet, it seems that in today's single Christian culture, if Christian women were to wait around for someone to ask them out...they would NEVER go out.

I personally don't have a problem with women asking men out.  I have done it.  If I had my druthers, however, I would prefer not to do so....at leat not ALL the darn time!  I like the idea of a man stepping into that leadership role from day 1.  It seems to me, however, (and apparently to many other women) that the men just aren't willing to do it.  Perhaps they are simply apathetic.  Perhaps they are just too shy.  Too passive.  I don't know.  But I do know this:  there are PLENTY of non-Christian men more than willing to step up to the plate and ask a woman out.  After months and months, or years, of not being on a single date...this can be a very tempting prospect...even if we would never actually accept.

Is this a problem in your church?
Do Christian men need to be more proactive about initiating dating? 
Are women today too agressive and therefore intimidating to Christian men?

Your thoughts?

[Triad 1028]

Who cares who asks who first?

If you like them then just go ahead and ask.

There doesn't need to be any sort of leadership role. Neither gender is dominant in the matter of asking the other on a date.

[spurly]

I'm old fashioned.  The gentleman should initiate the asking for a date.  Now the girl can use all her charms to get him to ask, but the question should come from him.  I don't know that there is any doctrine that backs this up, but it's just what I prefer.  I wouldn't know how to handle it if a lady asked me out.

[Triad 1028]

How would you not know how to handle it?

The same way the woman would if you were to ask her. A simple yes or no.

[marc]

Hey, I'm confused too. 

But that doesn't have anything to do with this topic.... 

[Bon Voyage]

As long as the lady doesn't look like a dude, you should be all good, spurly.

[janine]

AH... Spurly?  Has no female person ever asked you over for dinner or invited you to a party or asked you to join her for a movie?

[Lee Freeman]

I would personally love it if a girl asked me out. I'd still wanna pay, but I don't mind at all if a girl asks me out.

My problem is that I can't find any single women who are interested in a relationship.

Pax.

[EruditeJoy]

I would personally love it if a girl asked me out. I'd still wanna pay, but I don't mind at all if a girl asks me out.

Oh my gosh!  I forgot about that!  Who is supposed to pay? Man?? Woman??  Go Dutch???

Oye...I have a headache.

[WileyClarkson]

While i have been married for 32.5 years and I don't have these problems (my wife usually takes me out to eat!), common sense says the person who does the asking is responsible for the expenses.  Something to think about.

And BTW, having raised three daughters, two of whom are 28 and still single, I have absolutely no idea what is the proper way to do things in that age group, but since I take the view Gal 3:28 view of men and women being equal in the church and sharing the responsibilities in the church, then I guess if both are Christians, it doesn't really matter who does the asking.  When I was single, I would have fallen all over myself if a woman had thought enough of me to ask me out on a date!

A side bar here:  Our rent house renter married a few months ago.  When they first went out it was because he asked her out.  However, she asked him to marry her by having a special dinner and mood setting atmosphere and a special proposal moment during the dinner.  They are not Christians.

When I see my youngest daughter in a little while (she's home to be a counselor for a week for Royal Family Kid's Camp--a camp that works with kids under the control of the Texas CPS), I'll try to get her to get on this group and start posting.  She is a member of the forum.

[spurly]

AH... Spurly?  Has no female person ever asked you over for dinner or invited you to a party or asked you to join her for a movie?

Yes, they have.  But none that I was interested in going out with.  And I definitely did not know how to tell them no.  I just wish they wouldn't ask and would wait for me to ask them out.  If I were interested, I would ask them out.

[janine]

Just say no, spurly.  Sheesh.

Under what conditions, in what venue, do you get to spend enough time around people to know if you might like to ask them out?

[EruditeJoy]

You know, the more I think about it, the more practical an arranged marriage is starting to sound. LOL    Love is as much a matter of the will as it is of emotion, no??   

Does anyone have a catalogue for mail-order husbands they'd be willing to pass on?   

[Bon Voyage]

While i have been married for 32.5 years and I don't have these problems (my wife usually takes me out to eat!), common sense says the person who does the asking is responsible for the expenses.  Something to think about.

And BTW, having raised three daughters, two of whom are 28 and still single, I have absolutely no idea what is the proper way to do things in that age group, but since I take the view Gal 3:28 view of men and women being equal in the church and sharing the responsibilities in the church, then I guess if both are Christians, it doesn't really matter who does the asking.  When I was single, I would have fallen all over myself if a woman had thought enough of me to ask me out on a date!

A side bar here:  Our rent house renter married a few months ago.  When they first went out it was because he asked her out.  However, she asked him to marry her by having a special dinner and mood setting atmosphere and a special proposal moment during the dinner.  They are not Christians.

When I see my youngest daughter in a little while (she's home to be a counselor for a week for Royal Family Kid's Camp--a camp that works with kids under the control of the Texas CPS), I'll try to get her to get on this group and start posting.  She is a member of the forum.

You know, the more I think about it, the more practical an arranged marriage is starting to sound. LOL    Love is as much a matter of the will as it is of emotion, no??   

Does anyone have a catalogue for mail-order husbands they'd be willing to pass on?   

Wiley can get his daughters posting on this forum, no need for a mail order husband catalog, and someone who is single can petition Lee (admin) for a GCM Singles Poster Get Together. 

[EruditeJoy]

My problem is that I can't find any single women who are interested in a relationship.

I feel your pain, Lee.

[msbradley]

I'm new, so I don't know anyone, but EruditeJoy, if your picture is anywhere near current, all the single women need to get on their knees and pray, pray and pray some more for our situations! Why do you end up dateless for more than a year?
I'm older, I've been divorced for 16 years, a Christian for 13, stopped dating 12 years ago. My situation was that I realized AFTER I became a Christian that the "bad boys" I was always drawn to were not what I needed. So, I put me on hold until I understood what I needed and would not settle for anything less.  I had always had a boyfriend, or dates or a husband or someone pursuing me. I now wonder if I was so totally wrong for the last 12 years. I find myself not interested in any of the men who show interest in me. I want what I want and I guess I am willing to  have nothing if I can't get what I want. Am I really supposed to be that way? I've wondered many a lonely night if I should just give in and quit saying no. Maybe I should just make sure they are an active Christian and just say yes.

[spurly]

Mrsbradley,

I can totally identify with the statement you made that said:

want what I want and I guess I am willing to  have nothing if I can't get what I want.

But I have not yet decided to lower my standards, and the ones that did fit my standards didn't want me - thus I am still single.  Maybe some day.

[EruditeJoy]

I'm new, so I don't know anyone, but EruditeJoy, if your picture is anywhere near current, all the single women need to get on their knees and pray, pray and pray some more for our situations! Why do you end up dateless for more than a year?
I'm older, I've been divorced for 16 years, a Christian for 13, stopped dating 12 years ago. My situation was that I realized AFTER I became a Christian that the "bad boys" I was always drawn to were not what I needed. So, I put me on hold until I understood what I needed and would not settle for anything less.  I had always had a boyfriend, or dates or a husband or someone pursuing me. I now wonder if I was so totally wrong for the last 12 years. I find myself not interested in any of the men who show interest in me. I want what I want and I guess I am willing to  have nothing if I can't get what I want. Am I really supposed to be that way? I've wondered many a lonely night if I should just give in and quit saying no. Maybe I should just make sure they are an active Christian and just say yes.

Welcome, Msbradley!!  So happy to have you here!

You know, I really do think that there is a trend among Christian singles.  That's me in the picture (what you see is what you get) and while, I don't consider myself to be terribly unattractive, I have girlfriends who are sold out for God, absolutely stunningly beautiful, AND pretty well emotionally balanced......and they can't get a date!!!

I've been thinking of possible reasons for my datless delimma:

1.  I actually do get asked out fairly regularly....by non-christian men!  What kinda good does that do me???  Seriously, man.

2.  My chuch is largely made up of married or engaged couples.  The majority of singles are quite young.....in college or just out of college.  It seems that, in my churh, people are already married by the time they are my age (32).  And if they aren't they are already pursing a relationship with someone else.  So, the dating pool is about 2 inches deep.


3.  I wonder if more Christians than I realize are uncomfortable with interracial dating.  In addition to being largely married, my church is also largely White and if there are several single men who feel that they would not be comfortable in an interracial dating relationship (cultural differences, perhaps??   ), or simply are not attracted to women of color, then that leaves me out, too. 

I often wonder if they don't ask because they assume that I wouldn't be interested because I'm waiting on my IBM (ideal black man).   Yet, oddly enough, black men tend not to ask me out AT ALL!  The majority of men I have dated have been white.  Frankly, I don't give a flying fig one way or another about race.  It's rather funny to me that people of other races might not ask out someone of a different race because they assume they wouldn't be interested.      

4.  Perhaps single is just the way God wants me to be right now.  I'm starting a 30-day juice fast soon....perhaps I'll hear more from God on this subject.    Maybe he has something for me sometime in the future that marriage would hinder. 

So....I'm just waiting.    and waiting.    and waiting.   and waiting.

[EruditeJoy]

But I have not yet decided to lower my standards, and the ones that did fit my standards didn't want me - thus I am still single.  Maybe some day.

Spurly, I thought you were married!  LOL 

[Bon Voyage]

3.  I wonder if more Christians than I realize are uncomfortable with interracial dating.  In addition to being largely married, my church is also largely White and if there are several single men who feel that they would not be comfortable in an interracial dating relationship (cultural differences, perhaps??   I don't know, what do you think?), or simply are not attracted to women of color, then that leaves me out, too.

I often wonder if they don't ask because they assume that I wouldn't be interested because I'm waiting on my IBM (ideal black man).   Yet, oddly enough, black men tend not to ask me out AT ALL!  The majority of men I have dated have been white.  Frankly, I don't give a flying fig one way or another about race.  It's rather funny to me that people of other races might not ask out someone of a different race because they assume they wouldn't be interested.     Rolling on floor laughing 

For me it all comes down to the ugly.  A woman who is attractive on the outside is what gets ya looking.  Being that they are not a witch with a capital B is the next step.  Of course they need to be a Christian.

That is the only thing I worry about with my bro, who is marrying someone who is black in a few weeks.  She is SDA, and some of their doctrine is way out there.

[EruditeJoy]

That is the only thing I worry about with my bro, who is marrying someone who is black in a few weeks.  She is SDA, and some of their doctrine is way out there.

Boy, that's an understatement!

[spurly]

But I have not yet decided to lower my standards, and the ones that did fit my standards didn't want me - thus I am still single.  Maybe some day.

Spurly, I thought you were married!  LOL 

Nope.  Always been single.

[msbradley]

Since I am new, I spend a lot of my time reading old stuff on you guys to see what letters you like to touch on the keyboard.

This is the first time I have ever stepped finger into a message board. As a matter of fact, I didn't even know what a message board was until I got in to this one. I thought this was what a chatroom was and I've never been in one of them also. I guess a chatroom must mean you're in there at the same time as whom you are typing to, and a message board is here is me, whenever you see this, add if you want.

I ended up here because I have a teenage son. I rarely get on the computer, but thought I might see if there was something that would enlighten me and refresh me regarding my son. I had prayed and prayed about our situation, got on the computer, and it felt like without me even thinking, I was lead to type in grace. I saw grace centered, then a message board. And here I am.

As soon as I figure out how to take quotes and post them in my reply, I have some questions for spurly and others. One I read last night from him kind of struck an emotion with me that I'd like to discuss.

EruditeJoy, I wonder if it is the way single people present themselves. The church I attend seems to be too small (probably 150 in attendance) to feed singles anything but the Word. Which is why I attend, but I don't go there expecting to find a date.

I have dated men I met at the credit union, the grocery store, the man who came over to fix my heat and air, at the fair, my insurance man, but not from work or church. Those are 2 places I don't want to end up feeling uncomfortable in. Oh my gosh, there he is, I can't look over that way!!!! Or focus so much on him that I can't hear the message or get my work finished.

I'm in my 40's and 40 something single women that I have had to have experiences with (from church) are downright desperate. Maybe not in all directions of their life, but when it comes to men, watch out, they are not only jealous but envious of you.

I type too slow and think too fast to do this! I will type more later. Give me your experiences and thoughts on older single women.

[spurly]

Msbradley, quoting is easy.  Above each post you will see a button that says quote.  Click on that button and wait for the text to appear in the reply box at the bottom of the page.  Then scroll down to the end of what is in the reply box and start typing.

[EruditeJoy]

EruditeJoy, I wonder if it is the way single people present themselves. The church I attend seems to be too small (probably 150 in attendance) to feed singles anything but the Word. Which is why I attend, but I don't go there expecting to find a date.

MrsBradley, I REALLY agree with you, here.  I have a decided aversion to church singles-type groups.  Actually, one of the reasons I enjoy my church so much is the purposeful LACK of singles groups where the unmarried Christians are expected to congregate and wallow in their datelessness.

I once visited a church that had a singles group, to which I was promptly invited when the man I was talking to noticed that I wasn't wearing a weddiing ring. 

The following Sunday after the service, I gathered my nerve and walked through the doors where they "corral" the singles together.  As soon as I walked through the door, it seemed like EVERY head turned to stare.  I felt as though I was being sized-up and categorized as potential or non-potential marriage material.  It was VERY uncomfortable.   None of the women in the group made an effort to welcome me...only the men.  Which made it all the more uncomfortable.

I had been hoping for fellowship with like-minded people of both genders. What I encountered was a Meet Market.  And the desperation was so thick, you could cut it with a knife.  That was the last singles group I ever attended.

I'd like to be married as much as the next guy, but what's the deal with all the PRESSURE??

[spurly]

Singles groups only work if the purpose for them is to enable singles to pursue undivided devotion to God during their season of singleness.

[EruditeJoy]

Exactly, Spurly.  It seems to me that, because of the unique freedom that many singles have, singles groups are an excellent opportunity for singles to commit to serve together.

I was unaware, however, that the purpose of many singles groups is, unfortunately, to work HARD at no longer being single.  It's unfortunate.

[msbradley]

I tried to participate in a singles Bible study. The Bible lessons were so good!!! Whether a study of Books from the Bible, a carry on of that weeks Sunday sermon, Bible history, we even tried to do a study on singleness. No matter what our subject lessen was,  mostly Sunday School answers or someone's answer was to cut you down while they were trying to raise themselves up (off the ground). They were all trying to be so perfect, the real them gushed out every chance it got (against their will, of course). I never knew what to expect from them. Sometimes they'd be fake nice and other times down right nasty. That group is defunct now. I refer to that old group as the Desperado's. Fitting though not nice.

[spurly]

Msbradley you are way too nice a lady, to have had such a terrible experience.  Maybe God will use you to reach out to those desperados  who were in our group.  (I was the leader of the group she was talking about when I was still in OKC).  As she says, it was really bad - many women were there for the wrong reason and she defintely did become extremely frustrated about it.

I'm glad you found us here at GCM.  Pull up a chair and get to know us better, and you will find a lot of love, encouragement and laughter.

By the way, stop in on the Introduction forum and introduce yourself to the group - that way they know a little bit more about you and it always makes for better community and discussion.

(And by the way folks, if you don't treat her right, the boogeyman will get you!)

[DCR]

Good to know that y'all know each other, Spurly.  I thought she was taking a somewhat familiar tone with you when she put you in your place in the hymn game thread! 

[Cross-titled]

Guys,

I've been where you guys are with the singles thing and have survived it.  I really haven't talked much about it, vocally with very few and never on this board.  Maybe one of these days.  God worked on me, in me, through me, massaged me, molded me and just kinda threw me out there.  I've landed on my feet in more ways than one since then.  Just know He loves you and will provide for you.

[msbradley]

Cross, as soon as He's finished with me, I'm giving you a manna. Ok, I'll give it to you now. Even though I don't want to yet. I'm tired of not having someone special! I have a friend (married) that tells me to get out, he's not going to come knocking on your door. Well, I'm tired of getting out, ABM (all by myself)!

To DCR, I say (type) things like that even if I am not familiar with you.

Watch out!!!

[EruditeJoy]

Guys,

I've been where you guys are with the singles thing and have survived it.  I really haven't talked much about it, vocally with very few and never on this board.  Maybe one of these days.  God worked on me, in me, through me, massaged me, molded me and just kinda threw me out there.  I've landed on my feet in more ways than one since then.  Just know He loves you and will provide for you.

Thank you so much for the encouragement, Cross-titled. 

I believe that my Heavenly Father knows my heart and all its desires....and fears.  In this area, as in all areas of my life, it's a matter of taking up my cross daily and saying "Lord, Your will, not mine, be done."  I don't always succeed, but God's tender mercies are new every morning, and I wake up and try it again.

I have always struggled to patiently wait on God's timing.  Perhaps, now, He is teaching me what it truly means to abide in Him.  For some reason, I always believed that abiding wasn't supposed to hurt.  But, sometimes,  it does. 

Silly me.

[msbradley]

Hey EJ, I relate with the patience thing. I tend to ask Him why, hmmm I guess I whine to Him too. I've even found myself asking Him how long do you expect me to be patient? That probably restarts His clock back to  zero for me. I understand His will is the best and only. It's so hard to assure myself I'm listening to Him. I made a decision about a month ago not to get into a relationship with someone. I see him now with a girlfriend and I find myself wondering if I really went the way I was supposed to , or am I playing myself the fool with Satan. It's really scary for me to know what is right. 

[janine]

Speaking from the other end of a 25-year marriage --

It ain't all it's cracked up to be.  Of course that's easy to say with a spouse in the house and kids behind me.

Even in a happy marriage you'll occasionally find yourself looking back wistfully at those days when it was only you, and you alone under God, who made all the decisions for your life.