Spank Me Please Mommy and Daddy!

[bliz]

This thread was started in the fall of 2006... since that time we've learned a whole lot more about CEOs. The argument that spanking helped make them who they are takes on a whole new meaning now that we have a more accurate look at major corporations atitudes and practices.

Our children are young adults on their own now.  We reserved spanking for being in-your-face defiant and safety matters and I sill wish I had spanked less.

[admin]

This thread was started in the fall of 2006... since that time we've learned a whole lot more about CEOs. The argument that spanking helped make them who they are takes on a whole new meaning now that we have a more accurate look at major corporations atitudes and practices.

Our children are young adults on their own now.  We reserved spanking for being in-your-face defiant and safety matters and I sill wish I had spanked less.

It would be illogical to lump all CEO's into the category of a few. I'm a CEO, does that make me bad with money, overpaid or wasteful? Sometimes companies don't make good hires. People make mistakes. If a company thinks one CEO is worth millions, that's their right. If the stockholders disagree, they can vote for something different. As of now, our society and market is still mostly free. The corruption and wastefulness in government make corporate America look like ancient monks! Value and protect your freedom to incorporate with others into a business and to work to achieve your dreams. Government taking over business is a communist's dream but a nightmare come true for those who appreciate their freedom.

[bbn4kids]

I think many people spank too often, and it is no longer effective. But I also believe that a swat once in awhile is needed to drive a point home and "wake them up." It should not leave bruises (and certainly nothing worse!). A spanking is a far cry from a beating, and can be done with love. I remember a country song, about "Daddy's Hands." She talks of how sometimes they were gentle, sometimes they were hard, but there was always love in daddy's hands. Very true. I, by the way, was never spanked. Time outs were enough for me--I hated them!

[OneLung]

I remember a country song, about "Daddy's Hands." She talks of how sometimes they were gentle, sometimes they were hard, but there was always love in daddy's hands.

According to left-wing Liberal Sociologists, that's a symptom of Stockholm Syndrome and should be probable cause to have Child Protective Services dig deeper. 

[bbn4kids]

Yes, just an example of how I never agree with any left-wing liberal groups. Or right-wing ones, for that matter. They always take everything to an extreme. Back in the "good old days", not only parents disciplined their children, but the entire community could. There were fewer teen pregnancies, fewer drugs in our schools, fewer bullies on the playgrounds...Now, I would never, ever, consider using an implement for a spanking. And it should be a last resort. But sometimes they just happen as a knee jerk reaction to a dangerous situation. Say, your nephew in his walker takes some metal keys and goes up to an open outlet...yes, I slapped the keys from his hand. I suppose I should have been taken in to the police, or investigated by social services? For some kids, just a look is enough. For others, more is needed. One of my brothers-in-law spanked his boys far too much, and they stopped caring about it. So it was pointless. He is not one of my favorite people, and actually kept my sister from taking the kids to church.

All I'm saying is, if something is deadly serious (like running into traffic) and time outs and talks don't work, a swat (NOT a beating) may help. The alternative, a dead child, would be much worse.

[bbn4kids]

Oh, and as far as social services go, in my opinion they are a joke. My step grand-niece is physically and mentally abused by her mother, to the point of using the trash can in her room for a toilet as she is yelled at if she pops her nose out the door to use the bathroom. And social services could care less. All they care about is pushing the paperwork through (and that statement is direct from a social worker who quit social services for that very reason.) And said step-niece would NEVER have ended up in the system. My husband and I would have taken her (and still would) in a heart-beat. My nephew (working on a divorce from this woman) would call and call, and was just told to keep calling. That is the best advice he got.

[OneLung]

Back in the "good old days", not only parents disciplined their children, but the entire community could. 

Yep, my butt was on the receiving end of the Principal's paddle more than a few times and I turned out to be perfectly stable.     

[Bon Voyage]

This thread was started in the fall of 2006... since that time we've learned a whole lot more about CEOs. The argument that spanking helped make them who they are takes on a whole new meaning now that we have a more accurate look at major corporations atitudes and practices.

Our children are young adults on their own now.  We reserved spanking for being in-your-face defiant and safety matters and I sill wish I had spanked less.

Let's go by what God's Word says, not by what happens to CEO's.

[Syyd Seven]

I don't believe in spanking... just beatings and hangings."
There is never a need to "spank" a child.  Spanking teaches association.  Someone does something wrong, they deserve physical violence.  Not a good connection, IMO.  The furthest I come to "spanking" is when they are trying to sick things in light sockets... "Sticking a toy in a light socket = pain." Good association.
Spanking is not always "evil" per se, and certainly isn't a "gateway" to abuse, but I believe it's more for a parent to act out his/ her frustration.  My parents, whom I love dearly, spanked me until I was a teenager.  It's more tramatic than anything.  I would never dream of hitting my kids in anger. 
Bottom line: Spanking is not necessarily horrific, just horrifically unnecessary.   

[Bon Voyage]

I don't believe in spanking... just beatings and hangings."
There is never a need to "spank" a child.  Spanking teaches association.  Someone does something wrong, they deserve physical violence.  Not a good connection, IMO.  The furthest I come to "spanking" is when they are trying to sick things in light sockets... "Sticking a toy in a light socket = pain." Good association.
Spanking is not always "evil" per se, and certainly isn't a "gateway" to abuse, but I believe it's more for a parent to act out his/ her frustration.  My parents, whom I love dearly, spanked me until I was a teenager.  It's more tramatic than anything.  I would never dream of hitting my kids in anger. 
Bottom line: Spanking is not necessarily horrific, just horrifically unnecessary.   

Throw out the bible then.

[IloveJesus]

I'm 17 so I don't get spanked anymore. But my dad would give me a spanking for fighting with my sister over the tv. My sister's daughter just turned 2..terrible two. I didn't read every part in this thread but...when can spanking get out of control???How hard is too hard??Cause I'm concerned for my niece. She's so tiny.I'm not saying I agree or disagree with spanking.I just wanna know how much is too much.

[son of God]

The frustrated child psychologists wince at such a finding and warn that spanking "slows mental development and hinders achievement.

[son of God]

The smaller they are, the smaller is needed for correction.  The smaller the bad trait/behaviour, the smaller the correction needed.

Hence the term "nip it in the bud".  Jump on the little things IMMEDIATELY, with just a little correction.  Yes, you can play catch up, but that is unpleasant and hard on everyone around.  Get it early, and get it light, and get it easily.  It's really just that simple.

[JohnDB]

I have one son...and from time to time (about once every nine months or so) he got a spanking for something.

His behavior became so erratic and non-compliant that it was as if he was wanting the spanking for willful defiance. (the main and only reason a spanking is usually merited in my house)

He was given three swats with the palm of my hand on the part of his body made for recieving just such swats.

The thing about it though is that I usually hit him harder when showing him love and affection...giving him a hug at the same time...and a kiss.

But the spanking is more about ceremony than severity...and he would cry like I had killed him and beat him half to death...

To this day my 11yo is pretty well behaved...yeah he gets into trouble from time to time but nothing that deserves a spanking...grounding yes, spanking no. He is unusually honest with his answers as well...deceit isn't a strong suit of his at all...kinda strange too considering most kids (including myself) aren't that honest. He will tell on himself in a heartbeat...weird...but OK.


His mother though doesn't get respect from him unless I tell him to give it to her. She regularly hollers and screams and jumps up and down and he might sleepily say, "What??" after a tantrum of fifteen minutes is thrown by her. I do tell him often to respect his mother...but it is difficult when she refuses to give respect to anyone including herself.

Discipline is not just punishment...it is a system of both rewards for good, positive behavior as well as punishment for poor behavior. And it doesn't neccesarily involve large sums of cash either....just a personal investment.

[son of God]

After my children receive physical discipline, they come with an outpouring of love for me.  Then we have a great time of just closeness and talking about all sorts of things.  I love it.  So do they.  If your heart is wrong in giving it, they will see this.  If it is wrong, it won't be received correctly.  Teach the heart in all things, not the actions, because the actions follow the heart.  I don't discipline for acitons or deeds.  Never have, and never will.  I discipline the heart, and tell them this, and we discuss the heart in it all.  I also tell them when I see growth in their heart in an area in which I had to discipline them in the past.  Do not flatter, but speak the truth in encouragement, exhorting them to continue on growing in it.  It's a blast.  Physical discipline after about 5 or 6 years old is virtually non existant at our place, as the heart should have the foundations laid by that time, as my wife and I see it.

[RemainUnshaken]

<< link deleted, newbie post >>


Please come back and tell us about the content to the place you posted a link to -- you cannot post links until you've been around a while and had some conversations and other posts.  Sorry 'bout that.

[walker starr]

     I remember coming home to my then wife after a long hard day.  Only to be met at the door by an announcement.
     Very shrill voice "You have to beat _____(name hidden to protect the guilty).  I took off my belt.  Took the boy into
      the bedroom.  Used my belt to strike the bed  about six or eight times.  The boy ,my son, cried as if I had really hit him.
      That sort of thing was the biggest reason for our marriage dissolution.  The next t two wives were really wonderful.
       made up for the first one.  Sorry(not very) to digress.  GOD Bless you all.     
     

[lightshineon]

 Do not spank much, but when I have had enough, I get the belt go nuts, and whoever is standing there gets it. All three fighting, after awhile I just snap sometimes. Rarely though. Boy can they run fast. I think it is good your kids think you are crazy just once in awhile. It keeps them wondering if they should push you or not.

[son of God]

Do not spank much, but when I have had enough, I get the belt go nuts, and whoever is standing there gets it. All three fighting, after awhile I just snap sometimes. Rarely though. Boy can they run fast. I think it is good your kids think you are crazy just once in awhile. It keeps them wondering if they should push you or not.

I can just picture them scattering like cockroaches when a light is turned on!

[Bon Voyage]

I'm 17 so I don't get spanked anymore. But my dad would give me a spanking for fighting with my sister over the tv. My sister's daughter just turned 2..terrible two. I didn't read every part in this thread but...when can spanking get out of control???How hard is too hard??Cause I'm concerned for my niece. She's so tiny.I'm not saying I agree or disagree with spanking.I just wanna know how much is too much.

They need it the most at 2 through 5.

[lightshineon]

Do not spank much, but when I have had enough, I get the belt go nuts, and whoever is standing there gets it. All three fighting, after awhile I just snap sometimes. Rarely though. Boy can they run fast. I think it is good your kids think you are crazy just once in awhile. It keeps them wondering if they should push you or not.

I can just picture them scattering like cockroaches when a light is turned on!

The funniest thing that happened when I used a dust pan, now that sounds abusive but, it was a dollar store plastic, and cracked. I am very patient, but it was in the summer, and home air conditoner was broken, then the toliet over flowed. It was about 100 degrees outside, the girls were cranky, I was beyond cranky. The middle daughter was in my bedroom. kind of being out of it. The oldest Amity, and youngest Emily, are the two most stubbron, stong willed ones. Emily was in Amity's room, and spilled her sippy cup on. on Amity's bed. Amity hit Emily, screamed, and hit her back. There is seven years apart in age between oldest, and youngest. The started screaming at each other, my hair was plaster with sweat. I had plunger in my hand, trying to help T-bowl problems, clean the floor ( gross). I at that time decided, my Charity had ended. I found the broken dust pan, and went on a crazy. I went to Amitys room, and she fell on the bed, doingthe defensive hand, arm mode,  the dust pan coud not have hurt her, then I took off after Emily, she was running as fast as her little legs would go. I was chasing her down the hallway, she would turn her head, and say " No mama! no please no!" Allof the sudden, it reminded me of a slasher film, and I started laughing so hard. My little one look scared because I was just laughing like a nut case.  "She said " mama you ok?" I guess she really thought I had lost my mind. I then put them in the van with air conditoner, and we went to some garage sales. I laughed even in the van.  Maybe I did have a break  down of some kind, but the look on Emily's face running down the hallway was so funny, it still makes me laugh.

[son of God]

I got a good laugh reading that!  Thanks.  Real life is stranger than fiction, right?

[son of God]

At a family reunion years ago, when my oldest about about 7, I think, we were going through the line of food at the table, cafeteria style.  I was waiting while the kids/ladies when through, just stiing on the couch.  When my oldest was going to really load his plate up with creamy jello stuff, he looked up at me, stopped dead in his tracks, and placed the serving spoon back.  A few other dads saw this, and commented on it.  They were surprised that I hadn't frowned or anything, yet my son knew that I didn't want him to have more than he had already taken.  They asked how he knew, when I was looking no differently than at the men I was talking to.  I said that he didn't see me smiling, and that was enough.  I smile a whole lot at my kids, they are such blessings.  We have a pile of fun and gut busting laughter together, so if I'm not having a happy look, they tend to think twice about what is afoot.  Frowning or other unpleasant facial expressions are a fairly rare critter around our place.  Thankfully!

[lightshineon]

 LOL Son truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.  I like your post about your positive reinforcement with kids, and facial expression. That makes sense, and it really made me think.

[son of God]

Be careful, though, LSO: I'm one of those bible thumpers, and because God isn't sufficient, and I haven't had official training, I don't know how to apply the bible to real life.  Don't say that I never warned you!   

[lightshineon]

Be careful, though, LSO: I'm one of those bible thumpers, and because God isn't sufficient, and I haven't had official training, I don't know how to apply the bible to real life.  Don't say that I never warned you!   

No son you are a good guy, who loves Jesus, your wife and kids.

[chosenone]

     I remember coming home to my then wife after a long hard day.  Only to be met at the door by an announcement.
     Very shrill voice "You have to beat _____(name hidden to protect the guilty).  I took off my belt.  Took the boy into
      the bedroom.  Used my belt to strike the bed  about six or eight times.  The boy ,my son, cried as if I had really hit him.
      That sort of thing was the biggest reason for our marriage dissolution.  The next t two wives were really wonderful.
       made up for the first one.  Sorry(not very) to digress.  GOD Bless you all.     
     

I agree walker starr. My husband used to be beaten with a belt by his mother for quite small things sometimes, and as he was a very sensitive little boy it affected him very deeply. The thought of it makes my blood run cold. The thought of beating my kids with an impliment makes my blood run cold. Hearing people talk about beating their kids with an impliment makes my blood run cold.

My three adult kids are great and lovely and caring people, and they only ever got the smallest number of smacks and that wasnt becuase I though it would do them good but it was when I had had enough. They didnt need that sort of punishment, there were better ways to discipline them without beating /hitting. Children need discipline and they need to know where they are, and I was quite firm with them, but hitting just ISNT necesary in my experience.

[lightshineon]

     I remember coming home to my then wife after a long hard day.  Only to be met at the door by an announcement.
     Very shrill voice "You have to beat _____(name hidden to protect the guilty).  I took off my belt.  Took the boy into
      the bedroom.  Used my belt to strike the bed  about six or eight times.  The boy ,my son, cried as if I had really hit him.
      That sort of thing was the biggest reason for our marriage dissolution.  The next t two wives were really wonderful.
       made up for the first one.  Sorry(not very) to digress.  GOD Bless you all.     
     

I agree walker starr. My husband used to be beaten with a belt by his mother for quite small things sometimes, and as he was a very sensitive little boy it affected him very deeply. The thought of it makes my blood run cold. The thought of beating my kids with an impliment makes my blood run cold. Hearing people talk about beating their kids with an impliment makes my blood run cold.

My three adult kids are great and lovely and caring people, and they only ever got the smallest number of smacks and that wasnt becuase I though it would do them good but it was when I had had enough. They didnt need that sort of punishment, there were better ways to discipline them without beating /hitting. Children need discipline and they need to know where they are, and I was quite firm with them, but hitting just ISNT necesary in my experience.

The dust Pan was just a psycho moment, and I do not spank, maybe once every two years.

[chosenone]

     I remember coming home to my then wife after a long hard day.  Only to be met at the door by an announcement.
     Very shrill voice "You have to beat _____(name hidden to protect the guilty).  I took off my belt.  Took the boy into
      the bedroom.  Used my belt to strike the bed  about six or eight times.  The boy ,my son, cried as if I had really hit him.
      That sort of thing was the biggest reason for our marriage dissolution.  The next t two wives were really wonderful.
       made up for the first one.  Sorry(not very) to digress.  GOD Bless you all.     
     

I agree walker Starr. My husband used to be beaten with a belt by his mother for quite small things sometimes, and as he was a very sensitive little boy it affected him very deeply. The thought of it makes my blood run cold. The thought of beating my kids with an implement makes my blood run cold. Hearing people talk about beating their kids with an implement makes my blood run cold.

My three adult kids are great and lovely and caring people, and they only ever got the smallest number of smacks and that wasn't because I though it would do them good but it was when I had had enough. They didn't need that sort of punishment, there were better ways to discipline them without beating /hitting. Children need discipline and they need to know where they are, and I was quite firm with them, but hitting just ISNT necessary in my experience.

The dust Pan was just a psycho moment, and I do not spank, maybe once every two years.

good for you lightshineon. My husbands ex wife made him occasionally spank their kids with a light wooden thing shaped into a whale.It was named wally whale. I jokingly told him that you have probably given them an obsessional  and unnatural fear of whales . He never wanted to do it though preferring better methods of discipline of which there are many to choose from. My husbands mothers told them that they should be beating them with a belt like she did with her 2 boys, but fortunately they didn't take any notice of her. She, (his mother) was treated like this when she was young and she is a mess totally.

[chosenone]

After my children receive physical discipline, they come with an outpouring of love for me.  Then we have a great time of just closeness and talking about all sorts of things.  I love it.  So do they.  If your heart is wrong in giving it, they will see this.  If it is wrong, it won't be received correctly.  Teach the heart in all things, not the actions, because the actions follow the heart.  I don't discipline for acitons or deeds.  Never have, and never will.  I discipline the heart, and tell them this, and we discuss the heart in it all.  I also tell them when I see growth in their heart in an area in which I had to discipline them in the past.  Do not flatter, but speak the truth in encouragement, exhorting them to continue on growing in it.  It's a blast.  Physical discipline after about 5 or 6 years old is virtually non existant at our place, as the heart should have the foundations laid by that time, as my wife and I see it.

so you have close times after you have beaten them.
You can actually have very close times with children without beating them.
I babysat for a family last night with three kids ages 11,9 and nearly 5. They are extreemly lovely and well behaved children, among the best that I have known. When they misbehave their parents send them to sit on the 'naughty' step for a set time and it really works.They dont need to be hit/beaten to be really nice kids.

[JohnDB]

     I remember coming home to my then wife after a long hard day.  Only to be met at the door by an announcement.
     Very shrill voice "You have to beat _____(name hidden to protect the guilty).  I took off my belt.  Took the boy into
      the bedroom.  Used my belt to strike the bed  about six or eight times.  The boy ,my son, cried as if I had really hit him.
      That sort of thing was the biggest reason for our marriage dissolution.  The next t two wives were really wonderful.
       made up for the first one.  Sorry(not very) to digress.  GOD Bless you all.     
     

I agree walker starr. My husband used to be beaten with a belt by his mother for quite small things sometimes, and as he was a very sensitive little boy it affected him very deeply. The thought of it makes my blood run cold. The thought of beating my kids with an impliment makes my blood run cold. Hearing people talk about beating their kids with an impliment makes my blood run cold.

My three adult kids are great and lovely and caring people, and they only ever got the smallest number of smacks and that wasnt becuase I though it would do them good but it was when I had had enough. They didnt need that sort of punishment, there were better ways to discipline them without beating /hitting. Children need discipline and they need to know where they are, and I was quite firm with them, but hitting just ISNT necesary in my experience.

I have threatened my son with "the belt"...heh heh heh...even snapped it several times...and the first time he looked at me with wide eyed fear in his eyes. (ex wife was always a $!@#$ )...nowadays when I threaten him with "the belt" he starts laughing and wants to snap it back at me...heh heh heh...he gets the fact that it is just a joke..

his spankings always were with the palm of my hands...and he knows it...and his mother is full of baloney...and consequently she has the hardest time getting him to behave.

[k-pappy]

After my children receive physical discipline, they come with an outpouring of love for me.  Then we have a great time of just closeness and talking about all sorts of things.  I love it.  So do they.  If your heart is wrong in giving it, they will see this.  If it is wrong, it won't be received correctly.  Teach the heart in all things, not the actions, because the actions follow the heart.  I don't discipline for acitons or deeds.  Never have, and never will.  I discipline the heart, and tell them this, and we discuss the heart in it all.  I also tell them when I see growth in their heart in an area in which I had to discipline them in the past.  Do not flatter, but speak the truth in encouragement, exhorting them to continue on growing in it.  It's a blast.  Physical discipline after about 5 or 6 years old is virtually non existant at our place, as the heart should have the foundations laid by that time, as my wife and I see it.

so you have close times after you have beaten them.
You can actually have very close times with children without beating them.
I babysat for a family last night with three kids ages 11,9 and nearly 5. They are extreemly lovely and well behaved children, among the best that I have known. When they misbehave their parents send them to sit on the 'naughty' step for a set time and it really works.They dont need to be hit/beaten to be really nice kids.

As the article in the original post shows, a spanking can be good for kids.  There is a fine line between spanking and abuse, but so long as you stay on the right side of the line, your kids will be better off.  Sometimes a "time out" will work, but some times a spanking is needed.  A good parent knows what level of discipline will work for his or her kid for any given infraction, IMHO.

In Christ,
KP

[Bon Voyage]

Some kids need it.  If you think all spanking is wrong, you are disagreeing with scripture and not me or this thread.

[son of God]

After my children receive physical discipline, they come with an outpouring of love for me.  Then we have a great time of just closeness and talking about all sorts of things.  I love it.  So do they.  If your heart is wrong in giving it, they will see this.  If it is wrong, it won't be received correctly.  Teach the heart in all things, not the actions, because the actions follow the heart.  I don't discipline for acitons or deeds.  Never have, and never will.  I discipline the heart, and tell them this, and we discuss the heart in it all.  I also tell them when I see growth in their heart in an area in which I had to discipline them in the past.  Do not flatter, but speak the truth in encouragement, exhorting them to continue on growing in it.  It's a blast.  Physical discipline after about 5 or 6 years old is virtually non existant at our place, as the heart should have the foundations laid by that time, as my wife and I see it.

so you have close times after you have beaten them.
You can actually have very close times with children without beating them.
I babysat for a family last night with three kids ages 11,9 and nearly 5. They are extreemly lovely and well behaved children, among the best that I have known. When they misbehave their parents send them to sit on the 'naughty' step for a set time and it really works.They dont need to be hit/beaten to be really nice kids.

Beaten is different than spanked, by conotation at the very least.

And yes, if you think that I think that one can't have close times without first having physical discipline, you've missed the content of some of my posts here.  So based upon your assumption regarding my posts, if I don't beat my 18 year old, I don't have any close, great times of sharing.  Your assumption in this thread topic led you to an unsubstantiated leap of conclusion, I think.

What I also see is that if a child doesn't receive corporal discipline, they may still be well behaved for the few parents that know how to manage their kids this way, yet the child comes to adulthood well behaved and a descent person but still having a brash disposition -- a non contrite heart.  They don't know/have never been broken by God, even as they profess Him.  The word says that it is good for a youth to suffer.  A person must have a broken and contrite spirit.  The parent isn't to break the spirit: God is.  Yet they for the most part don't have a clue about this, having never been "shamed" to the extent that physical punishment does.  The heart, the spirit of a person must be taught contriteness and humility, just as God taught Moses and others this.  Then God doesn't have to smack them dowm to do it, or use something like Paul's miraculous event conversion, for few indeed have ever had that!  The tragedy is that we now have second generation believers that are raised this way, not knowing this spiritually, and it shows in the church: rebellion and all sorts of sin -- just read the bulletin or the news or listen to the grapevine of the church!  The proof is in the pudding.  And most don't like to look at all that is in the petri dish called the church.  That is why there are now studies that show that adults that have never been spanked are far more stubborn when adults, no matter how nice and descent/upright citizens they are, no matter their relitigious beliefs.

On this topic, like many others, it is seen by many that the ways of the world are mixed with Christianity and the bible, often to the point of taking presidence over the bible.  And when things go OK that way, it is used as proof that we don't need to/shouldn't do what the Bible might very clearly say is a good thing.  So no matter the topic, and this propensity of Christians is seen on many of these threads, it is sin, making God to be a liar, and man to be the perveyor of truth and wisdom.  It is rebellion.  It is witchcraft.  Hence, there are those who when they see these thiings on this forum, and elsewhere, say that the fear of God is not before most posters eyes, and they they draw near to God with their lips, but not with their heart, really.  Even though every poster will vehemently avow otherwise.

But then again, both the honest man and the thief will say that they are innocent, right?

And many kids are so totally different.  My 16 year old daughter hasn't had to be even rebuked since she was about 8, except once about a year ago, and that was about her attitude on something.  It shocked everyone.  Friends couldn't believe it when I said that she had to be rebuked.  She is the paragon of a "perfect" child: litterally never does anything wrong.  Period.  And her attitude is one of joy and happiness all the time.  All adults and kids alike who know her have never seen her do something wrong, or have an unpleasant attitude.  It blows the mind.  I would never have thought that possible, but we have seen it for years in her.  It's just amazing.  And it isn't a result of Dad and Mom, but of God.

My 18 year old son, when about 12, when we went to a certain church for the first time, upon walking through the doors, was told by one person there that as soon as they saw him, a verse came to mind: "in whom there is no guile".  We sat down, and the people in front of us said the same thing, that it just blew them away when they saw him, and they just had to tell us this.  Another person came up to us after the service, and told my wife and I the same thing.  Indeed, he is yet known as a guy in whom there is no guile: it just exudes from him.

it is not that my wife and I are great parents.  far from it.  I have blown it so many times, it's pathetic.  But we teach the heart.  Always.  And we use different things at different times, for the heart needs different things.  To spank when they've had a bad attitude and deliberately done something wrong is foolish, unless it is needed.  To not spank in that instance is foolihs, unless it is not needed.  What does their heart need at each instance?  Look to the heart only, and deal with the heart only, and that will be done the same way that you walk with God.  This is why a smile or the lack of a smile can guide your children.  That's no different than our reading the word and seeing if something makes God smile or not.  Or if it even is called that which He hates, or an abomination to Him.  We are to have the mind of Christ, having been blessed with all spiritual blessings in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, that we be complete and lacking nothing, doing the good works which He before ordained for us, that we should just walk in them.  So get the heart always.  If a parent or one in authority is dealing with the actions, they are missing the point, and will have problems in their flock.  Just look at the church.  Most pastors don't have a clue how to lead the flock, shown by the fruit.  Anyhow, I'm rambling on now.  Sorry.

[chosenone]

son of god
believe me, my children have suffered, but not at my hands. You make it sound as if they are like horses that have to be broken. My children needed firm boundariies and guidance, and they got that, but not by being spanked/beaten. They have beautiful spirits and havent had to be 'broken' to have those. They are caring and thoughtful.
Just as God uses the 'rod' in the 23rd psalm that the shepherd used, not to beat the sheep, but to nudge them and guide them and make sure they didnt stray off the track. God disciplines us but even if he could he wouldnt beat or hit us, but he uses other forms of discipline to do that. He doesnt have to break us, but to draw us close to Him and show us the right way to go.He shows us by example, by allowing us to reap what we have sown, by teaching and correction, through other people, and the church.
I just think that if we can bring up good kids without hitting them,then why do we need to hit them?