Spank Me Please Mommy and Daddy!

[Bon Voyage]

son of god
believe me, my children have suffered, but not at my hands. You make it sound as if they are like horses that have to be broken. My children needed firm boundariies and guidance, and they got that, but not by being spanked/beaten. They have beautiful spirits and havent had to be 'broken' to have those. They are caring and thoughtful.
Just as God uses the 'rod' in the 23rd psalm that the shepherd used, not to beat the sheep, but to nudge them and guide them and make sure they didnt stray off the track. God disciplines us but even if he could he wouldnt beat or hit us, but he uses other forms of discipline to do that. He doesnt have to break us, but to draw us close to Him and show us the right way to go.He shows us by example, by allowing us to reap what we have sown, by teaching and correction, through other people, and the church.
I just think that if we can bring up good kids without hitting them,then why do we need to hit them?

I have been waiting a long time for you to supply scriptural support for your position.  I believe your position is born out of the views of your culture and not scripture.  Please provide your scripture that invalidates scriptures about physical discipline.

[lightshineon]

 I think it depends on the child. My middle daughter is different, more submissive than , oldest and youngest. If your baby is going to touch a hot stove, you do hit their bottom, or hand. I think a child would much rather have a spanking than verbal abuse. My husband explains to the girls, before a rare spanking, and turns them over his knee, then talks to them about discipline after. He never spanks in out of control anger, but if he does it is controlled discipline. I was hit with the belt many times, it really just made me secretly hate, and be angry, because it was not done for discipline reasons, but out of anger.

[son of God]

I agree.  If a child is going to get hurt badly, you really don't let them experience it!  If they will get hurt just a little, and are at the point where that would be quite profitable, you let it occur, for it is minor and poses no threat to the wellbeing of the child.  The same is absolutely true regarding discipline, I think.

[lightshineon]

I agree.  If a child is going to get hurt badly, you really don't let them experience it!  If they will get hurt just a little, and are at the point where that would be quite profitable, you let it occur, for it is minor and poses no threat to the wellbeing of the child.  The same is absolutely true regarding discipline, I think.

Truth.

[chosenone]

son of god
believe me, my children have suffered, but not at my hands. You make it sound as if they are like horses that have to be broken. My children needed firm boundariies and guidance, and they got that, but not by being spanked/beaten. They have beautiful spirits and havent had to be 'broken' to have those. They are caring and thoughtful.
Just as God uses the 'rod' in the 23rd psalm that the shepherd used, not to beat the sheep, but to nudge them and guide them and make sure they didnt stray off the track. God disciplines us but even if he could he wouldnt beat or hit us, but he uses other forms of discipline to do that. He doesnt have to break us, but to draw us close to Him and show us the right way to go.He shows us by example, by allowing us to reap what we have sown, by teaching and correction, through other people, and the church.
I just think that if we can bring up good kids without hitting them,then why do we need to hit them?

I have been waiting a long time for you to supply scriptural support for your position.  I believe your position is born out of the views of your culture and not scripture.  Please provide your scripture that invalidates scriptures about physical discipline.

  They are not the views of my culture, they are the views that I have come to after bringing up my own three children, and by babysitting for  countless children over the last 12 years for about 20 different families.
I have mentioned the 'rod' used in the 23rd psalm. The same word that is used for disciplining the child. It doesnt mean a rod to beat the  sheep or the  child, but one used to nudge, steer and guide the sheep in the right path.
The children who I know that are the nicest, most well behaved and kindest are ones that arent smacked or beated or hit.

[Bon Voyage]

son of god
believe me, my children have suffered, but not at my hands. You make it sound as if they are like horses that have to be broken. My children needed firm boundariies and guidance, and they got that, but not by being spanked/beaten. They have beautiful spirits and havent had to be 'broken' to have those. They are caring and thoughtful.
Just as God uses the 'rod' in the 23rd psalm that the shepherd used, not to beat the sheep, but to nudge them and guide them and make sure they didnt stray off the track. God disciplines us but even if he could he wouldnt beat or hit us, but he uses other forms of discipline to do that. He doesnt have to break us, but to draw us close to Him and show us the right way to go.He shows us by example, by allowing us to reap what we have sown, by teaching and correction, through other people, and the church.
I just think that if we can bring up good kids without hitting them,then why do we need to hit them?

I have been waiting a long time for you to supply scriptural support for your position.  I believe your position is born out of the views of your culture and not scripture.  Please provide your scripture that invalidates scriptures about physical discipline.

  They are not the views of my culture, they are the views that I have come to after bringing up my own three children, and by babysitting for  countless children over the last 12 years for about 20 different families.
I have mentioned the 'rod' used in the 23rd psalm. The same word that is used for disciplining the child. It doesnt mean a rod to beat the  sheep or the  child, but one used to nudge, steer and guide the sheep in the right path.
The children who I know that are the nicest, most well behaved and kindest are ones that arent smacked or beated or hit.

Please give scriptural basis for your views.

[chosenone]

son of god
believe me, my children have suffered, but not at my hands. You make it sound as if they are like horses that have to be broken. My children needed firm boundariies and guidance, and they got that, but not by being spanked/beaten. They have beautiful spirits and havent had to be 'broken' to have those. They are caring and thoughtful.
Just as God uses the 'rod' in the 23rd psalm that the shepherd used, not to beat the sheep, but to nudge them and guide them and make sure they didnt stray off the track. God disciplines us but even if he could he wouldnt beat or hit us, but he uses other forms of discipline to do that. He doesnt have to break us, but to draw us close to Him and show us the right way to go.He shows us by example, by allowing us to reap what we have sown, by teaching and correction, through other people, and the church.
I just think that if we can bring up good kids without hitting them,then why do we need to hit them?

I have been waiting a long time for you to supply scriptural support for your position.  I believe your position is born out of the views of your culture and not scripture.  Please provide your scripture that invalidates scriptures about physical discipline.

  They are not the views of my culture, they are the views that I have come to after bringing up my own three children, and by babysitting for  countless children over the last 12 years for about 20 different families.
I have mentioned the 'rod' used in the 23rd psalm. The same word that is used for disciplining the child. It doesnt mean a rod to beat the  sheep or the  child, but one used to nudge, steer and guide the sheep in the right path.
The children who I know that are the nicest, most well behaved and kindest are ones that arent smacked or beated or hit.

Please give scriptural basis for your views.

Isnt the 23rd psalm scripture? The same word is used in both verses about sheep and children. I hardly think that God wants us to beat children if he doesnt want us to beat sheep who go off the path..

[Bon Voyage]

son of god
believe me, my children have suffered, but not at my hands. You make it sound as if they are like horses that have to be broken. My children needed firm boundariies and guidance, and they got that, but not by being spanked/beaten. They have beautiful spirits and havent had to be 'broken' to have those. They are caring and thoughtful.
Just as God uses the 'rod' in the 23rd psalm that the shepherd used, not to beat the sheep, but to nudge them and guide them and make sure they didnt stray off the track. God disciplines us but even if he could he wouldnt beat or hit us, but he uses other forms of discipline to do that. He doesnt have to break us, but to draw us close to Him and show us the right way to go.He shows us by example, by allowing us to reap what we have sown, by teaching and correction, through other people, and the church.
I just think that if we can bring up good kids without hitting them,then why do we need to hit them?

I have been waiting a long time for you to supply scriptural support for your position.  I believe your position is born out of the views of your culture and not scripture.  Please provide your scripture that invalidates scriptures about physical discipline.

  They are not the views of my culture, they are the views that I have come to after bringing up my own three children, and by babysitting for  countless children over the last 12 years for about 20 different families.
I have mentioned the 'rod' used in the 23rd psalm. The same word that is used for disciplining the child. It doesnt mean a rod to beat the  sheep or the  child, but one used to nudge, steer and guide the sheep in the right path.
The children who I know that are the nicest, most well behaved and kindest are ones that arent smacked or beated or hit.

Please give scriptural basis for your views.

Isnt the 23rd psalm scripture? The same word is used in both verses about sheep and children. I hardly think that God wants us to beat children if he doesnt want us to beat sheep who go off the path..

Without scripture that says corporal punishment is wrong, your argument is without merit, and is against scripture.

[lightshineon]

 HAVE YOU BEAT YOUR KID TODAY? (LOL) almost.

[phoebe]

My kids are too big/old for spankings now, but I made rules for myself re: discipline that worked well for me.

1) Never spank when angry.
Anger makes it about you, and not about their infraction. Wait out your anger in a locked bathroom.

2) Never more than 3 spanks.
The fewer the better.

3) Never on any place other than a covered bottom.
You only want their attention. 

4) Never with anything other than my bare hand.
You don't want to hurt them.

5) Always be sure to communicate clearly why the spanking, no matter the age.
If they don't understand, the spank is wasted and will have to be repeated often.

6) Always reassure them afterward that I love them with words and a real hug.
Love your kids unconditionally. This is how they learn about the love of God-from you.

7) Apologize when I fail to live up to these.
No one is a perfect parent.  Teach your children to apologize by example, not by force.



My husband and I married when my son was two.  He came home from work not long after we'd been married greeted by an ecstatic two year-old little boy.  It seemed to not set well with him, as he proceeded to lay him on the couch, lift a leg, and wail away at his lightly padded bottom and bare thigh.  There was no reason whatsoever for any part of that.  My reaction was immediate and strong.  It was the last time he spanked him.  His inexperience at parenting was glaringly and painfully obvious.  My first responsibility was to protect my son.  He's learned a lot about parenting over the years.  He turned out to be a top-notch dad.

I highly recommend Barbara Colorosso's parenting materials, esp. "Winning at Parenting... Without Beating Your Kids".

That toddler is now 21.  Not spanked since kindergarten when he wouldn't get dressed for school.  A fine young man.  Godly.  Intelligent.  Self-controlled.  We are so very proud of him.

Our daughter will be 18 this Sunday.  She was a different child.  Strong-willed.  DrJekyll/MrHyde kind of kid.  She was a challenge in the womb.  Made us work hard at parenting.  Colorosso saved her, I believe, because we followed her techniques.  She had a strong spirit, one that we wanted her to learn to channel and control, not break.  Took her to church twice in her jammies.  (Highly recommend this technique.  Wish we had known about it during the kindergarten episode with my son.)  Nothing is sadder than a child with a broken spirit.  At about the age of 10, she got her act together.  She is a fine young woman.  Godly.  Intelligent.  Self-controlled.  We are so very proud of her.

We are not to provoke our children to anger.  We are to teach and guide our children.  "Spare the rod" is a teaching and guiding tool, not a discipline tool for beating.  If we spend more time teaching and guiding, we will have to spend less time disciplining and punishing.

That's my sermon for today... 

[chosenone]

Try reading this article
www.kidglue.com/2009/07/10/what-every-parent-should-know-about-spanking/

[chosenone]

Or this article
Corporal punishment of children has unfortunately been a misguided form of disciplining children advocated by many Christians and many churches. However, the hitting of any child to resolve behavior difficulties has been proven ineffectual and harmful. Studies have shown that children who are hit in the name of discipline can suffer some of the following effects

1. increased agression
2. depression/anxiety
3. fear of parents
4. A distorted sexuality where the child's (and later adult's) sexual thoughts and feelings revolve around fantasies of being hit, spanked, and humiliated.
5. Lower IQ scores
6. Failure to internalize self-control
7. resentment

All these negitive effects run counter to what we know about Jesus Christ. Jesus would surely agree that children need to have discipline, but discipline is simply another term for teaching. Discipline involves teaching a child moral and approprite behaviors. This is accomplished when the parent models approprite behavior, provides repeated gentle instruction untill the child internalizes the correct response, offers plenty of unconditional love, and provides lots of Grace and forgiveness when mistakes and offences have been made. There is no place where hitting, spanking, and other forms of punishment that involve humiliation are approprite; especially if such treatment results in sexual problems, depression, and other such difficulties already mentioned. Such treatment may change outward behavior in the short term, but it does not lead to a change of heart, which is the purpose of a biblical view of discipline.

Jesus loved little children along with other vulnerable members of society and he would never advocate a form of supposed discipline that could harm physically and emotionally. Unfortunately few churches take a stand against this lie that has been passed down for generations. Only the United Methodist Church and some Catholic chruches have taken a unified stance against the corporal punishment of children. Our country has also failed to respond to the most vulnerable in our society. Corporal Punishment still remains legal in all homes, and in many midwest and southern schools (private and public).

[Bon Voyage]

Or this article
Corporal punishment of children has unfortunately been a misguided form of disciplining children advocated by many Christians and many churches. However, the hitting of any child to resolve behavior difficulties has been proven ineffectual and harmful. Studies have shown that children who are hit in the name of discipline can suffer some of the following effects

1. increased agression
2. depression/anxiety
3. fear of parents
4. A distorted sexuality where the child's (and later adult's) sexual thoughts and feelings revolve around fantasies of being hit, spanked, and humiliated.
5. Lower IQ scores
6. Failure to internalize self-control
7. resentment

All these negitive effects run counter to what we know about Jesus Christ. Jesus would surely agree that children need to have discipline, but discipline is simply another term for teaching. Discipline involves teaching a child moral and approprite behaviors. This is accomplished when the parent models approprite behavior, provides repeated gentle instruction untill the child internalizes the correct response, offers plenty of unconditional love, and provides lots of Grace and forgiveness when mistakes and offences have been made. There is no place where hitting, spanking, and other forms of punishment that involve humiliation are approprite; especially if such treatment results in sexual problems, depression, and other such difficulties already mentioned. Such treatment may change outward behavior in the short term, but it does not lead to a change of heart, which is the purpose of a biblical view of discipline.

Jesus loved little children along with other vulnerable members of society and he would never advocate a form of supposed discipline that could harm physically and emotionally. Unfortunately few churches take a stand against this lie that has been passed down for generations. Only the United Methodist Church and some Catholic chruches have taken a unified stance against the corporal punishment of children. Our country has also failed to respond to the most vulnerable in our society. Corporal Punishment still remains legal in all homes, and in many midwest and southern schools (private and public).

Please back up your ideas with scripture.  You have said you would earlier in the thread, and so far I haven't seen it.  If you can't back up your ideas with scripture you need to get new ideas.  I don't care what studies you post or anything else.  Back it up with scripture.  This is a Christian forum, not a psychology forum.

For the record, I was disciplined with corporal punishment.  I have none of the negative effects.

Once again, back it up with scripture.   If you just have articles by man, and no words of God, and appears to contradict God's Word, your belief is contrary to God's Word.

[son of God]

Or this article
Corporal punishment of children has unfortunately been a misguided form of disciplining children advocated by many Christians and many churches. However, the hitting of any child to resolve behavior difficulties has been proven ineffectual and harmful. Studies have shown that children who are hit in the name of discipline can suffer some of the following effects

1. increased agression
2. depression/anxiety
3. fear of parents
4. A distorted sexuality where the child's (and later adult's) sexual thoughts and feelings revolve around fantasies of being hit, spanked, and humiliated.
5. Lower IQ scores
6. Failure to internalize self-control
7. resentment

All these negitive effects run counter to what we know about Jesus Christ. Jesus would surely agree that children need to have discipline, but discipline is simply another term for teaching. Discipline involves teaching a child moral and approprite behaviors. This is accomplished when the parent models approprite behavior, provides repeated gentle instruction untill the child internalizes the correct response, offers plenty of unconditional love, and provides lots of Grace and forgiveness when mistakes and offences have been made. There is no place where hitting, spanking, and other forms of punishment that involve humiliation are approprite; especially if such treatment results in sexual problems, depression, and other such difficulties already mentioned. Such treatment may change outward behavior in the short term, but it does not lead to a change of heart, which is the purpose of a biblical view of discipline.

Jesus loved little children along with other vulnerable members of society and he would never advocate a form of supposed discipline that could harm physically and emotionally. Unfortunately few churches take a stand against this lie that has been passed down for generations. Only the United Methodist Church and some Catholic chruches have taken a unified stance against the corporal punishment of children. Our country has also failed to respond to the most vulnerable in our society. Corporal Punishment still remains legal in all homes, and in many midwest and southern schools (private and public).

That list is the typical kid raised in an ungodly way.  Just look at the stats, and the schools, and such.  The same kids that so many on this forum say need medications and professional counseling.  Interesting.  I fully back Gary: how is it that we are wiser than God in His
Word?  SHOW ME THE MONEY.

[phoebe]

What is the Scriptural support FOR physical punishment of our children, please?

[Bon Voyage]

What is the Scriptural support FOR physical punishment of our children, please?

Reply #10 is a good start.  I would prefer to call it discipline rather than punishment. 

[phoebe]

What is the Scriptural support FOR physical punishment of our children, please?

Reply #10 is a good start.  I would prefer to call it discipline rather than punishment. 

OK, so you are basing your parenting on Proverbs?  The book written by Solomon? "Wise" Solomon who had how many wives and how many concubines?  Have you actually read ALL of Proverbs, slowly, so as to absorb some of the things that are being said?  (Also notice that not all the Proverbs are words of Solomon.)  Proverbs is not the rule book that replaced the 10 commandments.

Re: Proverbs:

    1) proverbs are parabolic and figurative
    2) proverbs is practical, not theological
    3) proverbs are worded to be memorable, not precise
    4) proverbs are not guarantees from God

Use Proverbs very carefully, with much discretion.  One ex. is the "Proverbs 31 Woman".  That isn't written about one woman.  It's an ideal, the epitome of woman, written as an acrostic poem.  How about 31:8, just above the ideal woman - "Give liquor to a person who is dying and wine to one who feels resentful."   Do you do that?

What one might learn from these two verses from post #10 is that there may be times when a spanking is appropriate, but what one must learn is that the purpose of the "rod" being spoken of is that of guiding, instructing, teaching and learning.  The "rod" is a tool for hogs.  Beat them all day long and all they will do is squeal.  Beat them enough and they will turn on you and devour you.  Touch or tap them on the sides with the rod and they will go in the direction you want them to go.  That is the rod being spoken of.  If all one does is hit, slap, and beat a child, they will grow up without learning God's way - which is the purpose, to teach them GOD'S way - and simply grow up to be another who hits, slaps and beats.  Slapping, hitting and beating does not teach God's way.

Understand, there are times when a spanking is appropriate, but it should be the exception and not the norm.  One does not learn much from a spanking, except there will be pain inflicted by the ones who are supposed to love them the most.  Teaching is the priority.  That seems to be lost by parents who depend heavily on spanking.  The essence of the parenting proverbs are simply saying to teach your children, to raise them to be good, godly people, not to let them raise themselves and go wild.  It is disciplined vs. undisciplined.

Then, one must ask, 'What does Jesus say about children?'

Matthew 18:6-10  My paraphrase - Be very careful with My children.  If you do anything that causes them to lose faith in Me, there will be dire and eternal consequences.

And then Paul speaks to discipline in Eph. 6:4 - "Fathers, don't make your children bitter about life.  Instead, bring them up in Christian discipline and instruction." - GWT; or "Parents, do not exasperate your children but provide them with education and instruction about the Lord." - TSNT

The word is paidea, and mean teach, educate, instruct, rearing a child, but it does not mean "chasten" or "discipline".

Learn to spank appropriately.


Sorry I couldn't say it in 50 words or less.

[Bon Voyage]

What is the Scriptural support FOR physical punishment of our children, please?

Reply #10 is a good start.  I would prefer to call it discipline rather than punishment.  

OK, so you are basing your parenting on Proverbs?  The book written by Solomon? "Wise" Solomon who had how many wives and how many concubines?  Have you actually read ALL of Proverbs, slowly, so as to absorb some of the things that are being said?  (Also notice that not all the Proverbs are words of Solomon.)  Proverbs is not the rule book that replaced the 10 commandments.

Re: Proverbs:

   1) proverbs are parabolic and figurative
   2) proverbs is practical, not theological
   3) proverbs are worded to be memorable, not precise
   4) proverbs are not guarantees from God

Use Proverbs very carefully, with much discretion.  One ex. is the "Proverbs 31 Woman".  That isn't written about one woman.  It's an ideal, the epitome of woman, written as an acrostic poem.  How about 31:8, just above the ideal woman - "Give liquor to a person who is dying and wine to one who feels resentful."   Do you do that?

What one might learn from these two verses from post #10 is that there may be times when a spanking is appropriate, but what one must learn is that the purpose of the "rod" being spoken of is that of guiding, instructing, teaching and learning.  The "rod" is a tool for hogs.  Beat them all day long and all they will do is squeal.  Beat them enough and they will turn on you and devour you.  Touch or tap them on the sides with the rod and they will go in the direction you want them to go.  That is the rod being spoken of.  If all one does is hit, slap, and beat a child, they will grow up without learning God's way - which is the purpose, to teach them GOD'S way - and simply grow up to be another who hits, slaps and beats.  Slapping, hitting and beating does not teach God's way.

Understand, there are times when a spanking is appropriate, but it should be the exception and not the norm.  One does not learn much from a spanking, except there will be pain inflicted by the ones who are supposed to love them the most.  Teaching is the priority.  That seems to be lost by parents who depend heavily on spanking.  The essence of the parenting proverbs are simply saying to teach your children, to raise them to be good, godly people, not to let them raise themselves and go wild.  It is disciplined vs. undisciplined.

Then, one must ask, 'What does Jesus say about children?'

Matthew 18:6-10  My paraphrase - Be very careful with My children.  If you do anything that causes them to lose faith in Me, there will be dire and eternal consequences.

And then Paul speaks to discipline in Eph. 6:4 - "Fathers, don't make your children bitter about life.  Instead, bring them up in Christian discipline and instruction." - GWT; or "Parents, do not exasperate your children but provide them with education and instruction about the Lord." - TSNT

The word is paidea, and mean teach, educate, instruct, rearing a child, but it does not mean "chasten" or "discipline".

Learn to spank appropriately.


Sorry I couldn't say it in 50 words or less.

Now that you've got that all out, who said anything about proverbs replacing the ten commandments or any such thing?

[phoebe]

Don't treat Proverbs like it is a book of rules, which it how it seems when it is used as Scriptural support for a way of living as Christ-followers.

[Bon Voyage]

Don't treat Proverbs like it is a book of rules, which it how it seems when it is used as Scriptural support for a way of living as Christ-followers.

Seems is often in the eye of the beholder.  Scriptural support and rule keeping are not always the same thing.  My argument has been against those who say spanking is wrong entirely.

[phoebe]

Don't treat Proverbs like it is a book of rules, which it how it seems when it is used as Scriptural support for a way of living as Christ-followers.

Seems is often in the eye of the beholder.  Scriptural support and rule keeping are not always the same thing.  My argument has been against those who say spanking is wrong entirely.

That's obviously not me.  I can't fathom a child never needing something of a spat.  IMO and IME, they all turn a deaf ear to us from time to time, refusing any teachable moments, and boldly defy us.  I never spanked to hurt or because I was angry, but to get their attention and let them know I meant business.  I believe spanking is to be a last resort, and self-imposed guidelines keep it about the child and not the parent's anger.  I don't believe our role in parenting is to "break their spirit".  God gave them that spirit.  Our role is to teach them how to use  it.

[chosenone]

Or this article
Corporal punishment of children has unfortunately been a misguided form of disciplining children advocated by many Christians and many churches. However, the hitting of any child to resolve behavior difficulties has been proven ineffectual and harmful. Studies have shown that children who are hit in the name of discipline can suffer some of the following effects

1. increased agression
2. depression/anxiety
3. fear of parents
4. A distorted sexuality where the child's (and later adult's) sexual thoughts and feelings revolve around fantasies of being hit, spanked, and humiliated.
5. Lower IQ scores
6. Failure to internalize self-control
7. resentment

All these negitive effects run counter to what we know about Jesus Christ. Jesus would surely agree that children need to have discipline, but discipline is simply another term for teaching. Discipline involves teaching a child moral and approprite behaviors. This is accomplished when the parent models approprite behavior, provides repeated gentle instruction untill the child internalizes the correct response, offers plenty of unconditional love, and provides lots of Grace and forgiveness when mistakes and offences have been made. There is no place where hitting, spanking, and other forms of punishment that involve humiliation are approprite; especially if such treatment results in sexual problems, depression, and other such difficulties already mentioned. Such treatment may change outward behavior in the short term, but it does not lead to a change of heart, which is the purpose of a biblical view of discipline.

Jesus loved little children along with other vulnerable members of society and he would never advocate a form of supposed discipline that could harm physically and emotionally. Unfortunately few churches take a stand against this lie that has been passed down for generations. Only the United Methodist Church and some Catholic chruches have taken a unified stance against the corporal punishment of children. Our country has also failed to respond to the most vulnerable in our society. Corporal Punishment still remains legal in all homes, and in many midwest and southern schools (private and public).

That list is the typical kid raised in an ungodly way.  Just look at the stats, and the schools, and such.  The same kids that so many on this forum say need medications and professional counseling.  Interesting.  I fully back Gary: how is it that we are wiser than God in His
Word?  SHOW ME THE MONEY.

The most well behaved and good kids that I know are ones that dont get hit/spanked/beaten.

[chosenone]

Or this article
Corporal punishment of children has unfortunately been a misguided form of disciplining children advocated by many Christians and many churches. However, the hitting of any child to resolve behavior difficulties has been proven ineffectual and harmful. Studies have shown that children who are hit in the name of discipline can suffer some of the following effects

1. increased agression
2. depression/anxiety
3. fear of parents
4. A distorted sexuality where the child's (and later adult's) sexual thoughts and feelings revolve around fantasies of being hit, spanked, and humiliated.
5. Lower IQ scores
6. Failure to internalize self-control
7. resentment

All these negitive effects run counter to what we know about Jesus Christ. Jesus would surely agree that children need to have discipline, but discipline is simply another term for teaching. Discipline involves teaching a child moral and approprite behaviors. This is accomplished when the parent models approprite behavior, provides repeated gentle instruction untill the child internalizes the correct response, offers plenty of unconditional love, and provides lots of Grace and forgiveness when mistakes and offences have been made. There is no place where hitting, spanking, and other forms of punishment that involve humiliation are approprite; especially if such treatment results in sexual problems, depression, and other such difficulties already mentioned. Such treatment may change outward behavior in the short term, but it does not lead to a change of heart, which is the purpose of a biblical view of discipline.

Jesus loved little children along with other vulnerable members of society and he would never advocate a form of supposed discipline that could harm physically and emotionally. Unfortunately few churches take a stand against this lie that has been passed down for generations. Only the United Methodist Church and some Catholic chruches have taken a unified stance against the corporal punishment of children. Our country has also failed to respond to the most vulnerable in our society. Corporal Punishment still remains legal in all homes, and in many midwest and southern schools (private and public).

Please back up your ideas with scripture.  You have said you would earlier in the thread, and so far I haven't seen it.  If you can't back up your ideas with scripture you need to get new ideas.  I don't care what studies you post or anything else.  Back it up with scripture.  This is a Christian forum, not a psychology forum.

For the record, I was disciplined with corporal punishment.  I have none of the negative effects.

Once again, back it up with scripture.   If you just have articles by man, and no words of God, and appears to contradict God's Word, your belief is contrary to God's Word.

The article on the website that I posted on the last page speaks about the Biblical verses that are often misinterpreted by many Christians. It gives the meaing of the words etc.
Seems plain to me. Why hit kids if we dont need to?

[Bon Voyage]

Or this article
Corporal punishment of children has unfortunately been a misguided form of disciplining children advocated by many Christians and many churches. However, the hitting of any child to resolve behavior difficulties has been proven ineffectual and harmful. Studies have shown that children who are hit in the name of discipline can suffer some of the following effects

1. increased agression
2. depression/anxiety
3. fear of parents
4. A distorted sexuality where the child's (and later adult's) sexual thoughts and feelings revolve around fantasies of being hit, spanked, and humiliated.
5. Lower IQ scores
6. Failure to internalize self-control
7. resentment

All these negitive effects run counter to what we know about Jesus Christ. Jesus would surely agree that children need to have discipline, but discipline is simply another term for teaching. Discipline involves teaching a child moral and approprite behaviors. This is accomplished when the parent models approprite behavior, provides repeated gentle instruction untill the child internalizes the correct response, offers plenty of unconditional love, and provides lots of Grace and forgiveness when mistakes and offences have been made. There is no place where hitting, spanking, and other forms of punishment that involve humiliation are approprite; especially if such treatment results in sexual problems, depression, and other such difficulties already mentioned. Such treatment may change outward behavior in the short term, but it does not lead to a change of heart, which is the purpose of a biblical view of discipline.

Jesus loved little children along with other vulnerable members of society and he would never advocate a form of supposed discipline that could harm physically and emotionally. Unfortunately few churches take a stand against this lie that has been passed down for generations. Only the United Methodist Church and some Catholic chruches have taken a unified stance against the corporal punishment of children. Our country has also failed to respond to the most vulnerable in our society. Corporal Punishment still remains legal in all homes, and in many midwest and southern schools (private and public).

Please back up your ideas with scripture.  You have said you would earlier in the thread, and so far I haven't seen it.  If you can't back up your ideas with scripture you need to get new ideas.  I don't care what studies you post or anything else.  Back it up with scripture.  This is a Christian forum, not a psychology forum.

For the record, I was disciplined with corporal punishment.  I have none of the negative effects.

Once again, back it up with scripture.   If you just have articles by man, and no words of God, and appears to contradict God's Word, your belief is contrary to God's Word.

The article on the website that I posted on the last page speaks about the Biblical verses that are often misinterpreted by many Christians. It gives the meaing of the words etc.
Seems plain to me. Why hit kids if we dont need to?

A big goose-egg on the scriptural backup for your position again?  Prove that spanking is wrong from scripture.  If you can't your position is false.

[chosenone]

Or this article
Corporal punishment of children has unfortunately been a misguided form of disciplining children advocated by many Christians and many churches. However, the hitting of any child to resolve behavior difficulties has been proven ineffectual and harmful. Studies have shown that children who are hit in the name of discipline can suffer some of the following effects

1. increased agression
2. depression/anxiety
3. fear of parents
4. A distorted sexuality where the child's (and later adult's) sexual thoughts and feelings revolve around fantasies of being hit, spanked, and humiliated.
5. Lower IQ scores
6. Failure to internalize
7. resentment

All these negative effects run counter to what we know about Jesus Christ. Jesus would surely agree that children need to have discipline, but discipline is simply another term for teaching. Discipline involves teaching a child moral and appropriate behaviors. This is accomplished when the parent models appropriate behavior, provides repeated gentle instruction until the child internalizes the correct response, offers plenty of unconditional love, and provides lots of Grace and forgiveness when mistakes and offences have been made. There is no place where hitting, spanking, and other forms of punishment that involve humiliation are appropriate; especially if such treatment results in sexual problems, depression, and other such difficulties already mentioned. Such treatment may change outward behavior in the short term, but it does not lead to a change of heart, which is the purpose of a biblical view of discipline.

Jesus loved little children along with other vulnerable members of society and he would never advocate a form of supposed discipline that could harm physically and emotionally. Unfortunately few churches take a stand against this lie that has been passed down for generations. Only the United Methodist Church and some Catholic Churches have taken a unified stance against the corporal punishment of children. Our country has also failed to respond to the most vulnerable in our society. Corporal Punishment still remains legal in all homes, and in many midwest and southern schools (private and public).

That list is the typical kid raised in an ungodly way. Just look at the stats, and the schools, and such. The same kids that so many on this forum say need medications and professional counseling. Interesting.  I fully back Gary: how is it that we are wiser than God in His
Word?  SHOW ME THE MONEY.

Your opinion is that the list is for those who are raised in an ungodly way, seems that isn't true from the research. maybe read the first article on the website that I posted.
God never meant for children to have their spirits broken or to be beaten for every misdemeanour, as some are. The rod used in the psalm by the shepherd, was NEVER meant to beat the sheep, (nor our children). It is s rod of correction and guiding and leading and not a rod of pain.God guides leads and corrects us but NOT through inflicting physical beatings on us.

[Bon Voyage]

Or this article
Corporal punishment of children has unfortunately been a misguided form of disciplining children advocated by many Christians and many churches. However, the hitting of any child to resolve behavior difficulties has been proven ineffectual and harmful. Studies have shown that children who are hit in the name of discipline can suffer some of the following effects

1. increased agression
2. depression/anxiety
3. fear of parents
4. A distorted sexuality where the child's (and later adult's) sexual thoughts and feelings revolve around fantasies of being hit, spanked, and humiliated.
5. Lower IQ scores
6. Failure to internalize
7. resentment

All these negative effects run counter to what we know about Jesus Christ. Jesus would surely agree that children need to have discipline, but discipline is simply another term for teaching. Discipline involves teaching a child moral and appropriate behaviors. This is accomplished when the parent models appropriate behavior, provides repeated gentle instruction until the child internalizes the correct response, offers plenty of unconditional love, and provides lots of Grace and forgiveness when mistakes and offences have been made. There is no place where hitting, spanking, and other forms of punishment that involve humiliation are appropriate; especially if such treatment results in sexual problems, depression, and other such difficulties already mentioned. Such treatment may change outward behavior in the short term, but it does not lead to a change of heart, which is the purpose of a biblical view of discipline.

Jesus loved little children along with other vulnerable members of society and he would never advocate a form of supposed discipline that could harm physically and emotionally. Unfortunately few churches take a stand against this lie that has been passed down for generations. Only the United Methodist Church and some Catholic Churches have taken a unified stance against the corporal punishment of children. Our country has also failed to respond to the most vulnerable in our society. Corporal Punishment still remains legal in all homes, and in many midwest and southern schools (private and public).

That list is the typical kid raised in an ungodly way. Just look at the stats, and the schools, and such. The same kids that so many on this forum say need medications and professional counseling. Interesting.  I fully back Gary: how is it that we are wiser than God in His
Word?  SHOW ME THE MONEY.

Your opinion is that the list is for those who are raised in an ungodly way, seems that isn't true from the research. maybe read the first article on the website that I posted.
God never meant for children to have their spirits broken or to be beaten for every misdemeanour, as some are. The rod used in the psalm by the shepherd, was NEVER meant to beat the sheep, (nor our children). It is s rod of correction and guiding and leading and not a rod of pain.God guides leads and corrects us but NOT through inflicting physical beatings on us.

Lack of scripture and an assumption that spanking = physical beating will lead to unsound doctrine.

[samurkai]

I'm 19, so probably a bit young to be posting on here, but in any case, my parents definitely spanked me. By most standards, I've turned out pretty well; I'm not promiscuous, I don't do drugs, I'm studying biology to go premed at an Ivy League school.
But I think the damage that spanking did to my relationship with my parents is impressive. My choice of school says enough: I refused to apply to any schools within 6 hours driving distance from my house. I'm currently 3,000 miles and 3 time zones away from home. I love my parents, but I don't miss them. I feel more at home walking into my dorm room than I ever did in my real house back home. To be honest, I'm afraid of them, and have been for as long as I can remember. I think it's easy to look back on childhood memories fondly and say it all worked out in the end, but for me it's recent enough that I can look back and remember times that I honestly thought my dad was going to literally kill me. I'm sure there are situations in which spanking works, but for my family, the spanking was escalated by the tempers of my parents to the point where I wasn't just getting hit with wooden spoons or whatever but instead with pairs of skis.
I wasn't abused- I usually had done something wrong, and they weren't taking out their own issues on me or anything. Being hit or pinched or swatted didn't happen that often, but when it did it usually made quite the impression.
So my main point here is just that while punishment is really important, I think spanking is wrong. I know plenty of wonderful people who have never been hit by their parents, and I think they're also closer; I don't believe the emotional damage is worth it.

[Bon Voyage]

I'm 19, so probably a bit young to be posting on here, but in any case, my parents definitely spanked me. By most standards, I've turned out pretty well; I'm not promiscuous, I don't do drugs, I'm studying biology to go premed at an Ivy League school.
But I think the damage that spanking did to my relationship with my parents is impressive. My choice of school says enough: I refused to apply to any schools within 6 hours driving distance from my house. I'm currently 3,000 miles and 3 time zones away from home. I love my parents, but I don't miss them. I feel more at home walking into my dorm room than I ever did in my real house back home. To be honest, I'm afraid of them, and have been for as long as I can remember. I think it's easy to look back on childhood memories fondly and say it all worked out in the end, but for me it's recent enough that I can look back and remember times that I honestly thought my dad was going to literally kill me. I'm sure there are situations in which spanking works, but for my family, the spanking was escalated by the tempers of my parents to the point where I wasn't just getting hit with wooden spoons or whatever but instead with pairs of skis.
I wasn't abused- I usually had done something wrong, and they weren't taking out their own issues on me or anything. Being hit or pinched or swatted didn't happen that often, but when it did it usually made quite the impression.
So my main point here is just that while punishment is really important, I think spanking is wrong. I know plenty of wonderful people who have never been hit by their parents, and I think they're also closer; I don't believe the emotional damage is worth it.

Your situation was full of anger and abuse.  You are confusing abuse with proper spanking, much like Chosenone has done.

[JohnDB]

For the longest time it seemed (during the days I actually watched the news and what have you on television) the reporters doing any story on some kind of deranged maniac that attacked police with a meat fork or murdered a dozen people would always get the murderer's parents on camera with one general statement...they kinda seemed to pull it out of all of them...

"I don't understand how this coulda happened...He was always such a good boy..."

so there ya go...the guy who chopped up his neighbor into little bits and ate him barbequed every friday night for a special treat was a "good boy" according to his parents...

[k-pappy]

son of god
believe me, my children have suffered, but not at my hands. You make it sound as if they are like horses that have to be broken. My children needed firm boundariies and guidance, and they got that, but not by being spanked/beaten. They have beautiful spirits and havent had to be 'broken' to have those. They are caring and thoughtful.
Just as God uses the 'rod' in the 23rd psalm that the shepherd used, not to beat the sheep, but to nudge them and guide them and make sure they didnt stray off the track. God disciplines us but even if he could he wouldnt beat or hit us, but he uses other forms of discipline to do that. He doesnt have to break us, but to draw us close to Him and show us the right way to go.He shows us by example, by allowing us to reap what we have sown, by teaching and correction, through other people, and the church.
I just think that if we can bring up good kids without hitting them,then why do we need to hit them?

I have been waiting a long time for you to supply scriptural support for your position.  I believe your position is born out of the views of your culture and not scripture.  Please provide your scripture that invalidates scriptures about physical discipline.

  They are not the views of my culture, they are the views that I have come to after bringing up my own three children, and by babysitting for  countless children over the last 12 years for about 20 different families.
I have mentioned the 'rod' used in the 23rd psalm. The same word that is used for disciplining the child. It doesnt mean a rod to beat the  sheep or the  child, but one used to nudge, steer and guide the sheep in the right path.
The children who I know that are the nicest, most well behaved and kindest are ones that arent smacked or beated or hit.

No offense, but I will take what the Bible says over your personal experiences any day.

If you provide scripture to support your position, I may change my mind, but you never do.

In Christ,
KP

[phoebe]

I agree with the 'smacked or beaten or hit',  but I think that there is appropriate spanking.

My daughter and I shared mother-daughter friends in TX where the mother would, not infrequently, slap her daughter hard across the face.  Inappropriate.  And I lost a lot of respect for my friend.

Small children are often smacked, slapped and hit so much that it has absolutely no affect on them.  Inappropriate.

Angry parents physically releasing their anger on the children.  Inappropriate.  It is not a release for a parent's anger.


Learn the how's and why's of appropriate spanking.


The "rod" of Scripture is a tool for guiding and teaching, not a weapon for discipline or punishment.  Best we stop trying to use Scripture inappropriately, as well. 

[janine]

Nobody said you have to spank your child.
I don't care if you do or don't.  (That's generic "you", not just you, phoebe :) .)

What I care about is results.

I don't care if you take your barely-walking toddler gently by the hand and try to explain all sorts of logical reasons to him, why he should not run into the street or jab a fork into an electrical outlet.  Rather than swatting his well-padded, diapered butt, I mean.

I don't care, so long as it produces a toddler that will actually think twice before he pulls a trick like that again.  And, so doing, live.

I don't care if your discipline methods include no punishment at all, of any sort.  So long as you produce a well-rounded, confident, sociable, presentable child.

Unfortunately, going by what I've seen, neither the never-spank parents nor the always-whacking-away parents have much success.

But that's just what I've witnessed.

[son of God]

Nobody said you have to spank your child.
I don't care if you do or don't.  (That's generic "you", not just you, phoebe :) .)

What I care about is results.

I don't care if you take your barely-walking toddler gently by the hand and try to explain all sorts of logical reasons to him, why he should not run into the street or jab a fork into an electrical outlet.  Rather than swatting his well-padded, diapered butt, I mean.

I don't care, so long as it produces a toddler that will actually think twice before he pulls a trick like that again.  And, so doing, live.

I don't care if your discipline methods include no punishment at all, of any sort.  So long as you produce a well-rounded, confident, sociable, presentable child.

Unfortunately, going by what I've seen, neither the never-spank parents nor the always-whacking-away parents have much success.

But that's just what I've witnessed.

spot on: teach the heart.

[BAH-BLAH]

hit/spanked/beaten


Thats like saying the smartest kids are the ones who get good grades/eat well/sleep on their stomachs

These three shouldnt be together like that.

[chosenone]

Nobody said you have to spank your child.
I don't care if you do or don't.  (That's generic "you", not just you, phoebe :) .)

What I care about is results.

I don't care if you take your barely-walking toddler gently by the hand and try to explain all sorts of logical reasons to him, why he should not run into the street or jab a fork into an electrical outlet.  Rather than swatting his well-padded, diapered butt, I mean.

I don't care, so long as it produces a toddler that will actually think twice before he pulls a trick like that again.  And, so doing, live.

I don't care if your discipline methods include no punishment at all, of any sort.  So long as you produce a well-rounded, confident, sociable, presentable child.

Unfortunately, going by what I've seen, neither the never-spank parents nor the always-whacking-away parents have much success.

But that's just what I've witnessed.

I agree Janine, and I have actually seen some lovely kids who are rarely if ever hit or  spanked.I have babysat for about 20 different families in the last 15 years or so as well as bought up three of my own so have seen lots of different forms of discipline used and the results. Kids whose parents are consistant, loving, firm but not violent (ie dont hit their kids) have great and lovely kids generally.