Some contend that "baptism" in 1 Pt. 3:21 is "suffering" and not "water"

[OkiMar]

1 Peter 3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (NASB)

This verse unequivocally states the role of baptism in our salvation.  There are 4 points that should be noticed:

1) Baptism saves
Not baptism alone.  Not as a meritorious work.  Not because in submitting to baptism we have someone earned our salvation.  Baptism is the mechanism whereby God has chosen to forgive man of his sins through the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. 
Baptism is the antitype...i.e. it is the reality.  To use an analogy, our shadow is a type (the tupos) of our physical body (the antitupos).  The events surrounding the Flood and the salvation of 8 pax was a type of baptism.  Just as the flood waters saved Noah's family from God's condemnation and judgement by separating them from the surrounding destruction, baptism saves us by God's forgiveness and the resulting spiritual separation. 

2) Appeal to God
Appeal is from the Greek word eperotema and means an earnest seeking, an appeal, a request.  This is the only occurrence in the NT.  In baptism, sinful man is appealing to God for His gift of a good conscience.

3) Good Conscience
We are appealing or praying for a good conscience.  We are appealing for God's gift of salvation.  When God extends his grace and forgives us of our sins when we are baptized, the condemnation for those sins is also been removed.  As a result, our conscience can be clear.  He has forgiven us, thus there is no need to dwell on our past failures. 
Baptism is not a bath.  It's significance is spiritual rather than physical. 

4) Through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ
Without Christ's resurrection, there could be no forgiveness of sins.  Without Christ, all would be hopeless.  Also, since Christ has been resurrected and has ascended to heaven, we can be assured that He will keep His word.

[mdd344]

James,
I haven't yet responded to your whole point. However, let me ask this question about it and the verse:

1. From what does baptism save us now?

[BrianInChrist]

The question isn't "does baptism save".  The question is: which baptism saves?  Clearly, according to 1 Peter 3:20-21, it is Spiritual baptism.

[mdd344]

Brian,
You told me some time back that you knew Spirit baptism was never commanded. Have you changed your view on that?

[BrianInChrist]

No, not at all.  Spiritual baptism can't be commanded because we don't baptize in the Spirit.  Only the Spirit does.

[mdd344]

Brian,
What is the baptism in Mat. 28:18=20 that is commanded, and what does the Bible say it is for?

[BrianInChrist]

Jesus told the disciples to baptize new believers in water in Mat. 28:18-20.  That isn't a command to be baptized, it is a command to baptize others.  Christ didn't say in that passage what baptism in water is for.

[mdd344]

Brian,
Good. But, one thing. I said what does the Bible say baptism in water is for. Not just that passage. What does the Bible say about it?

[BrianInChrist]

The Bible never states that we get something in return for being baptized in water.

[mdd344]

Brian
Who said it did? Really, all I am asking is what does the Bible say the water baptism of Mat. 28:18-20 is for. What do you say that the Bible says of it?

[BrianInChrist]

Mike,

When you ask me what water baptism is for, I think you are asking me what we get in return for being baptized in water.  If that's not what you mean, please rephrase the question.

[mdd344]

Brian,
I just want you to tell me what the Bible says water baptism is for. You can probably do a search with terms such as that and find it. I just want to know what you say that the Bible says.

[BrianInChrist]

Like I said, the Bible never says that we get something in return for being baptized in water.

[mdd344]

Brian,
Does the Bible, in anyplace, ever say what water baptism is for?

[BrianInChrist]

Mike,

The Bible never says that we get something in return for being baptized in water.

[mdd344]

Thanks Brian. I'll take that as you answering "no." Is that okay with you? That means in all the Bible God never once says what a command He gave is for, or gave its purpose, etc.

[BrianInChrist]

What is the purpose of being baptized in water?  It is a symbolic identification with the DBR of Christ, through which we publically confess faith in Christ.

[mdd344]

Brian,
Where did you get that in the Bible? And, what are doing those things you noted "for"? As in for what purpose, or what end result.

[BrianInChrist]

Romans 6:3-5, Col. 2:12, Ga 3:27, Mat 28:19

[mdd344]

Thanks. I think though that I can find where the Bible says what the water immersion of Mat. 28:18-20 is for. Isn't it strange when it is a direct quote once, and strongly implied another time, that others cannot seem to find it? Perhaps not. Have a good weekend.

[BrianInChrist]

I think you are thinking of a verse that says what Spiritual baptism is for.

[spurly]

Thanks. I think though that I can find where the Bible says what the water immersion of Mat. 28:18-20 is for. Isn't it strange when it is a direct quote once, and strongly implied another time, that others cannot seem to find it? Perhaps not. Have a good weekend.

Mike, I'm sure you know there are many, many different verses that talk about the blessings of baptism and many of those don't even mention "remission of sins"?  Why do you stick with that one verse and not focus as well on the other aspects of baptism?

[Jimbob]

And why do others seek the equal and opposite reaction of sanitizing passages of baptism's blessings?

[spurly]

And why do others seek the equal and opposite reaction of sanitizing passages of baptism's blessings?

I don't know, but both of those positions are wrong.  When we don't see the entire picture and instead focus on one corner of the picture we err.  When we avoid the picture all together, we err. 

[BrianInChrist]

And why do others seek the equal and opposite reaction of sanitizing passages of baptism's blessings?

Like I said before, the question is:  which baptism?

[Bon Voyage]

And why do others seek the equal and opposite reaction of sanitizing passages of baptism's blessings?

I don't know why we don't just GIT R' DONE and move on from milk to meat.

[spurly]

Brian, I readily admit I may be wrong, but from what I understand there is one baptism today and when we are immersed into Christ we are also plunged into the Holy Spirit.  I know our charismatic brothers and sisters (among others) will disagree with me.

[spurly]

And why do others seek the equal and opposite reaction of sanitizing passages of baptism's blessings?

I don't know why we don't just GIT R' DONE and move on from milk to meat.

That was the attitude of the early leaders of the restoration movement.

[BrianInChrist]

Brian, I readily admit I may be wrong, but from what I understand there is one baptism today and when we are immersed into Christ we are also plunged into the Holy Spirit.  I know our charismatic brothers and sisters (among others) will disagree with me.

I'm not referring to the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" that our charismatic brothers and sisters refer to.  I'm referring to the spiritual rebirth that Christ speaks of in John 3:1-8.

[OkiMar]

And why do others seek the equal and opposite reaction of sanitizing passages of baptism's blessings?

I don't know why we don't just GIT R' DONE and move on from milk to meat.

If baptism is essential (and it is) then the subject is meat. 

[James Rondon]

And why do others seek the equal and opposite reaction of sanitizing passages of baptism's blessings?

I don't know why we don't just GIT R' DONE and move on from milk to meat.

If baptism is essential (and it is) then the subject is meat. 

Not according to the writer of the epistle to the Hebrews.

[Bon Voyage]

And why do others seek the equal and opposite reaction of sanitizing passages of baptism's blessings?

I don't know why we don't just GIT R' DONE and move on from milk to meat.

If baptism is essential (and it is) then the subject is meat. 

Most of us have a lot of living past baptism, instead a lot of folks are subsisting on baptism far after they are immersed.

[Serenity432001]

And why do others seek the equal and opposite reaction of sanitizing passages of baptism's blessings?

I don't know why we don't just GIT R' DONE and move on from milk to meat.

I agree Gary.  I felt like we were getting closer to that in another thread.  There is always HOPE, Thank God!!

[James Rondon]

James,
I haven't yet responded to your whole point. However, let me ask this question about it and the verse:

1. From what does baptism save us now?

I have already stated it, Mike. Suffering for the sake of Christ is what is under view. And you don't have to take my word for it; just look at the context. In fact, you don't even have to go back that far. Instead of starting with the word "water", in verse 20, go back to verse 13, and read straight through. After you have done that, compare it with the rest of the epistle, particularly 1 Pet 1:6, 7, 11; 2:19, 20, 21-24; 3:9, and as I already mentioned, 13-22; then 4:1, 12, 13, 14-16, 17, 18, 19; 5:1, 8-9, and 10. I hope that helps.

[spurly]

And why do others seek the equal and opposite reaction of sanitizing passages of baptism's blessings?

I don't know why we don't just GIT R' DONE and move on from milk to meat.

If baptism is essential (and it is) then the subject is meat. 

Not according to the writer of the epistle to the Hebrews.

"Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.  And this we will do, if God permits."  (Hebrews 6:1-3, NASB)

"So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don't need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God.  You don't need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.  And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding."  (Hebrews 6:1-3, NLT)