Hitler and Christianity

[Mere Nick]

I sometimes listen to Live365 at work.  One of the channels is radio broadcasts from WW2.  I noticed a broadcast where it was stated that Hitler was wanting Christianity out of Germany because of the Hebraic origins and he didn't want any competition for control over people.  I'll try to get more details the next time it is played.  The broadcasts are chronological, beginning from the late 1930s through the war crimes hearings.

[Lee Freeman]

I sometimes listen to Live365 at work.  One of the channels is radio broadcasts from WW2.  I noticed a broadcast where it was stated that Hitler was wanting Christianity out of Germany because of the Hebraic origins and he didn't want any competition for control over people.  I'll try to get more details the next time it is played.  The broadcasts are chronological, beginning from the late 1930s through the war crimes hearings.

Richard Steigmann-Gall's written an excellent book entitled Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity, 1919-1945. Steigmann-Gall argues that what Hitler was actually trying to do was to Arianize Christianity. That meant getting rid of the Jewish origins of Christianity and re-casting it in a Germanic mold, while still keeping much that was/is familiar. Hitler was definitely no fan of traditional Catholicism or traditional Lutheranism. He wanted to coopt the church and make it Arian, while still keeping enough that people were familiar with. Erwin Lutzer also writes about this in his book Hitler's Church. Lutzer has photos of the inside of Nazi churches, in which the crucifixes and sacred images have been replaced with Nazi iconography, and Swastikas are draped over the altars as altar cloths.

Pax.

[archaeologist]

i have heard many accusations from atheists who claim Hitler was a christian, no matter what you do or explain they  fail to implement the sophistication needed to differentiate between what is or isn't a christian.

also, i read lutzer's, i believe it is called, 'the cross and the swastika'  andi wasn't impressed withit at all.  i felt it was too light in material and not enough investigation was put into the work.

there was something lacking, i thought, when i read it and felt it was too evangelical in tone and not enough historical.

[Jimbob]

Those who think Hitler was a Christian have no better grasp of reality than Ahmadinejad.

[marc]

I don't think Hitler was a Christian, but I also admit I don't have much of a grasp of Ahmadinejad. I do think I have a better grasp of reality than I have of him. 

[Jimbob]

Early in his political ambition, Hitler made "positive" comments about God, about faith.  But the further into his career, the closer to his "final solution", the deeper his megalomania, the more vitriolic his views of Christianity became.  Try these on for size...

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941

      "National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
      "The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is  Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....
      "Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)


10th October, 1941, midday

      "Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43)


14th October, 1941, midday

      "The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity....
      "Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....
      "...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little....
      "Christianity <is> the liar....
      "We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." (p 49-52)


19th October, 1941, night

      "The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."


21st October, 1941, midday

      "Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer....
      "The decisive falsification of Jesus' <who he asserts many times was never a Jew> doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation....
      "Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea."  (p 63-65)


13th December, 1941, midnight

      "Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... <here insults people who believe transubstantiation>....
      "When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease."  (p 118-119)


14th December, 1941, midday

      "Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself....
      "Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics."  (p 119 & 120)


9th April, 1942, dinner

      "There is something very unhealthy about Christianity." (p 339)


27th February, 1942, midday

      "It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie."
      "Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold <its demise>." (p 278)

Hitler's Table Talk (Adolf Hitler, London, Weidenfeld & Nicholson, 1953)

[archaeologist]

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
      "The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is  Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....

my view is that Hitler said certain things to get the church on his side and that he did not communicate his true feelings till later when he had absolute power.

[Jimbob]

Seems it might well have been that way. 

[princessofgod]

First: Really, Hitler wasn't a Christian!!!
Seconds: You all know about Bonhoeffer, rigth? He was a german christian/pastor who was a short time in the USA and then felt a calling to go back to Germany; he didn't do what Hitler wanted. After a while Hitler killed him. So that happened with Christians while the Hitler-time in Germany!
Other pastors, who where manipulated by Hitler, i don't know, but for me it seems to be awkward to think, that they are really faithful christians, but you still can't see in their hearts.
Sorry, i dont want to sound rude with first and second ^^...

Anonther thing is, that this christians said, that the bible says, that you have to submit to the government:
In romans 13:1 it says:
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

The thing is, that they didn't read the second half of this verse I think...

But christians here in Germany think, that Hitler was more an anti-christian, satanist; not his whole life, but since he was in Germany. His father i guess was a jews (or his mother, but i think it was his father.) And i think he hated his father, because he left him and his mother...and then he hated the jews more and more...sth like that...

[Lee Freeman]

A pacifist for religious reasons, pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer for a long time refused to espouse violence but finally became convinced that Hitler was so evil that violence was justified in this case. Bonhoeffer had earlier left the Lutheran Church and joined the underground Confessing Church (founded in 1933), which stood in opposition to the German Lutheran Church, which had caved in and sold out to the Nazis. In 1940 he began to act as an agent for Military Intelligence, secretly making contacts and carrying intelligence for the German resistance. His brother-in-law Hans Dohnanyi was a member of the German Military Intelligence Office and secretly a member of the resistance who was vehemently opposed to Hitler, and persuaded Bonhoeffer to work for them. That's how Bonhoeffer became involved in the Abwehr (German Military Intelligence Office) plot to assassinate Hitler, joining in 1939, and was imprisoned in March of 1943, and after being shunted to several different prison camps, ending at Flossenburg, was eventually hanged on April 9, 1945, a mere weeks before the German surrender. There's a movie about his martyrdom which is really good.


A lot of people think Hitler was a practicing Catholic, when in reality he had nothing but contempt for the Catholic Church. He only played at being conventionally religious when it suited him. Hitler's aim was actually to Arianize the German Lutheran Church-which he did, removing any and all Jewish references entirely.

Hitler martyred hundreds, possibly thousands of religious dissenters-Catholic priests, Protestant pastors, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. But the Catholic Church was always his biggest opponent. He actually seriously considered at one point kidnapping Pope Pius XII, who despite popular urban legends acted heroically to save as many Jews as possible. And both Pius and the Church were thanked in person and by letter after the war by many Jewish rabbis, as well as by no less personages than Dr. Alfred Einstein and Israeli premiere Golda Meir.

Pax.

[princessofgod]

A lot of people think Hitler was a practicing Catholic,

I never heard before, that people would think that 

[Tu Es Petrus]

A lot of people think Hitler was a practicing Catholic,

I never heard before, that people would think that 

People say that because he was baptised Catholic as an infant. But his Catholicism ended at the crib's edge.

I always understood that he was basically an occultist.

[sopranette]

That's true.  The swastika is actually a symbol used in places like India and other Eastern countries meaning life and good luck.  Many door steps have the symbol on them there.  He simply took the symbol and reversed it.

love.

Sopranette

[princessofgod]

A lot of people think Hitler was a practicing Catholic,

I never heard before, that people would think that 

People say that because he was baptised Catholic as an infant. But his Catholicism ended at the crib's edge.

I always understood that he was basically an occultist.

Yes, maybe, I only knew that his dad was a Jew...

[ole Jake]

A lot of people think Hitler was a practicing Catholic,

I never heard before, that people would think that 

People say that because he was baptised Catholic as an infant. But his Catholicism ended at the crib's edge.

I always understood that he was basically an occultist.

I don't know if it ended that early, but young Hitler was a clear product of the successes of the Prussian kulturkampf: he saw a united Germany (including Austria) as something sacred and above the Catholic church, in all matters. Certainly by his time in Vienna as an aspirting artist, Hitler was a devotee of irreligion and espeically anti-Catholicism.

[Lee Freeman]

Hitler seems to have believed in some kind of ill-defined "providence" but was not anything like an orthodox Christian of any stripe. Richard Steigmann-Gall argues that what Hitler was actually trying to do was to Arianize Christianity. That meant getting rid of the Jewish origins of Christianity and re-casting it in a Germanic mold, while still keeping much that was/is familiar. For all practical purposes Hitler seems to have been an atheist. He used religion as a unifying force but didn't really believe in anything definite or concrete.

Pax.

[lismore]

Jesus is a Jew, so goodness knows what Chrstianity Hitler was following.

[marc]

Jesus is a Jew, so goodness knows what Chrstianity Hitler was following.

While that's true, I've known plenty of antisemitic Christians.

[Mere Nick]

Jesus is a Jew, so goodness knows what Chrstianity Hitler was following.

While that's true, I've known plenty of antisemitic Christians.

And I've never understood why.  It seems more reasonable to be against the Italians.

[Jaime]

Jesus is a Jew, so goodness knows what Chrstianity Hitler was following.

While that's true, I've known plenty of antisemitic Christians.

Replacement Theology breeds that sometimes in Christians. Replacement theology has fostered and justified anti-Semitism throughout the centuries.

[Arkstfan]

Trivia regarding the swastika. It is also found in Native American culture and was used as a unit symbol on some US aircraft in The War to End All Wars.

[ollie]

Jesus is a Jew, so goodness knows what Christianity Hitler was following.

Their is neither Jew nor Greek in the Christ. Galatians 3:28 How does that make the risen Christ, who fulfilled all the law given to the Jews by paying the price for their transgressions and is now head over the ekklesia of believers, a Jew?      Matthew 5:17, Hebrews 9:14-15, Ephesians 5:23

He was born a Jew under the law given to Moses. Does he maintain Judaism as a Jew, today, since his ascension, to the right side of God with all power in heaven and earth?



ollie

[Jaime]

Jesus is a Jew, so goodness knows what Christianity Hitler was following.

Their is neither Jew nor Greek in the Christ. Galatians 3:28 How does that make the risen Christ, who fulfilled all the law given to the Jews by paying the price for their transgressions and is now head over the ekklesia of believers, a Jew?      Matthew 5:17, Hebrews 9:14-15, Ephesians 5:23

He was born a Jew under the law given to Moses. Does he maintain Judaism as a Jew, today, since his ascension, to the right side of God with all power in heaven and earth?



ollie

In Zechariah chapter 14, it describes Jesus coming back and setting foot on the Mount of Olives and reigning from Jeruselum. And.........
Zec 14:16  Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

[Jimbob]

Dr. Alfred Einstein

Albert's lesser known brother.

[Jimbob]

Jesus is a Jew, so goodness knows what Chrstianity Hitler was following.

While that's true, I've known plenty of antisemitic Christians.

Replacement Theology breeds that sometimes in Christians. Replacement theology has fostered and justified anti-Semitism throughout the centuries.

Yep, I've seen that.  Though, to be fair, I don't actually think it's the theology (at least as I've heard it presented) as much as it is that people who already have such an inclination are further entrenched in their views (this has far more often than not been the case in what I've observed).

[marc]

Dr. Alfred Einstein

Albert's lesser known brother.

I thought that was Bob "Super Dave" Einstein.  Or is that a different Albert Einstein?

[Bon Voyage]

Jesus is a Jew, so goodness knows what Chrstianity Hitler was following.

While that's true, I've known plenty of antisemitic Christians.

Replacement Theology breeds that sometimes in Christians. Replacement theology has fostered and justified anti-Semitism throughout the centuries.

And here I thought it was because of Protestantism.

[OneLung]

Dr. Alfred Einstein

Albert's lesser known brother.

Isaac Newton also had a famous sibling.

[Bon Voyage]

Dr. Alfred Einstein

Albert's lesser known brother.

Isaac Newton also had a famous sibling.

A brother Fig, and two sisters, Rasberry and Strawberry. 

[Jaime]

Jesus is a Jew, so goodness knows what Chrstianity Hitler was following.

While that's true, I've known plenty of antisemitic Christians.

Replacement Theology breeds that sometimes in Christians. Replacement theology has fostered and justified anti-Semitism throughout the centuries.

Yep, I've seen that.  Though, to be fair, I don't actually think it's the theology (at least as I've heard it presented) as much as it is that people who already have such an inclination are further entrenched in their views (this has far more often than not been the case in what I've observed).

I should have said "Replacement Theology HAS bred............" Currently it is not contributing much, but the damage was done in the Centuries around and following Constantine"s era.

[Lee Freeman]

Jesus is a Jew, so goodness knows what Christianity Hitler was following.

Their is neither Jew nor Greek in the Christ. Galatians 3:28 How does that make the risen Christ, who fulfilled all the law given to the Jews by paying the price for their transgressions and is now head over the ekklesia of believers, a Jew?      Matthew 5:17, Hebrews 9:14-15, Ephesians 5:23

He was born a Jew under the law given to Moses. Does he maintain Judaism as a Jew, today, since his ascension, to the right side of God with all power in heaven and earth?



ollie

NT Christianity had a decidedly Jewish cast to it. The NT authors, esp. Paul, write from a throughly Jewish theological perspective-though one that believed Messiah had come in the person of Yeshua of Nazareth. So though its true that we're not under the law and salvation is open to all, the NT authors nevertheless think and write in Hebrew terms. Until the fall of Jerusalem, Christianity regarded itself as a Jewish sect-the fulfillment of Judaism. I don't believe Jesus came to found a new religion, but to fulfill the expectations of Judaism. Nor do I believe he shed his humanity at his ascension. As Ben Witherington III says, he's a "forever person."

Pax.

[ex cathedra]

I think Adolf Hitler picked and choosed what he wanted to believe out of the bible .

Much like many people do today both Jews and Christians and many others  seem to like to point accusing  fingers at Hitler.

Forgetting about the much greater holocaust of infant babys of all races religions and countrys do to abortion being so accepted  all over the world .

TIS STRANGE How  one finds Hitler so ghastly  and yet pa poo the amount of abortions being done right here and all over the world . to the  much more helpless . Littlest of infants. A death count  so vastly superior that makes the death rate in second world war and all the wars of the world combined  seem hardly worth mentioning .

[ex cathedra]

A lot of people think Hitler was a practicing Catholic,

I never heard before, that people would think that 

i wonder How much  his indulgencies cost?

[ex cathedra]

Jesus is a Jew, so goodness knows what Chrstianity Hitler was following.

While that's true, I've known plenty of antisemitic Christians.

Replacement Theology breeds that sometimes in Christians. Replacement theology has fostered and justified anti-Semitism throughout the centuries.

Um then dispensation theology   breeds Antisemitism all of the time.
Because it forbids Jesus as the one and only way to be saved for the Jews and teaches Jesus is not so important after all because there will be a second chance for those Jews who reject him.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

A lot of people think Hitler was a practicing Catholic,

I never heard before, that people would think that 

i wonder How much  his indulgencies cost?

The last time the catholic church published a chart of costs for indulgences in English, you could be absolved of all sins for 12 pounds.