One Entrance into the One Kingdom

[da525382]

As for leaping upon an insult with my Moderator boots on, I tend to do that more often when I actually see the insult.  Was only skimming the thread.  Perhaps Lee F, OD and Wiley will see it better than I did.

Well, it's pretty obviously staring at you in post 332.  Do you need me to draw you a picture, too?

And, by the way, here's another choice addition from Mr. Pate(post 346):

So heavenly minded that you are of no earthly good

Do you "actually see" an insult here as well, Janine?

[Robert Pate]

James
Rondon

I am God's free man, I am not bound by laws, or scripture.  You don't understand this.  I am not religious, nor am I striving to be Holy.  I decided a long time ago that I have nothing, and I mean nothing, to offer a Holy God. I believe that Christ is my righteousness because I don't have any.

I also believe like Paul that I am a sinner, saved by the grace of God.  Now please don't pull words and lines out of this post so that you can make it sound like I am saying something that I am not.

[kamakaz]

Kamakaz

What is that saying?  So heavenly minded that you are of no earthly good.

do you read what people write? Or just make up your own conclusions without reading what has been written. Of course I have said the exact opposite, and you twisted it. I said just because we do not label ourselfs 'sinner' does not mean we can not relate to people (on Earth) just like you 'sinners' can. I associate with everyday people just as you do, people on drugs, people who go clubbing, etc. I do not have an holier than now attitude, but quite the opposite, i make it a purpose not to judge anyone, including you so i will not say no more on it.

[kamakaz]

the bible is very clear on sinning (for Gods true children)

Quote from: Robert Pate on Yesterday at 03:20:41 PM
Why does 1st John say, "that if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us?"

Why does it say, just 3 verses later, "these things I write unto you, that ye sin not"?

sin not means just that! Another time Jesus told a woman, 'Go and sin no more. quote. Did Jesus tell her to do something that was impossible? Of course not! Again Jesus did not suggest, but command, ' Be ye perfect, as I am perfect." So is there perfection in sin? Still did not get an answer....waiting....

[Robert Pate]

Kamakaz

Are you perfect?  God only accepts perfection.  If you are not perfect then you are a sinner. If you are a sinner trying to please God by keeping the law and scripture, then you are under judgement and condemnation.

This is why I am not trying to please God by living by law or scripture.  It will put you under the law.  The Old Covenant and the law have been done away with for the Christian.  The new way to live is by the Spirit of Christ, and not by the letter of the law. There is no condemnation to those that are in Christ.

[kamakaz]

Kamakaz

Are you perfect?  God only accepts perfection.  If you are not perfect then you are a sinner. If you are a sinner trying to please God by keeping the law and scripture, then you are under judgement and condemnation.

This is why I am not trying to please God by living by law or scripture.  It will put you under the law.  The Old Covenant and the law have been done away with for the Christian.  The new way to live is by the Spirit of Christ, and not by the letter of the law. There is no condemnation to those that are in Christ.

Will you be inperfect in heaven? and a sinner? what are you being transformed to? to a sinner? or from a sinner? Jesus clearly told us to 'sin not' and 'sin no more' so if He said it, it is not only possible but it was a command. are we going to get thier over night? no of course not, it is a long process, one of which i have a long ways to go, but it is the mark we are to aim for, how can you follow Jesus example and not expect to follow Jesus example? did He sin? No, so...

[Robert Pate]

Kamakaz

There will be no sin in heaven.  Why?  Because all that Christ is and all that he has done will become ours.  But not yet, we are not in heaven yet.  In the mean time.  Romans 8:18-24  "For I reckon that the sufferings of this PRESENT TIME are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. verse 22. For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain until now.  And not only they but we ourselves also, which have the FIRST FRUITS of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING FOR THE ADOPTION, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: For what a man sees why would he hope for it?"

[kamakaz]

Kamakaz

There will be no sin in heaven.  Why?  Because all that Christ is and all that he has done will become ours.  But not yet, we are not in heaven yet.  In the mean time.  Romans 8:18-24  "For I reckon that the sufferings of this PRESENT TIME are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. verse 22. For we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain until now.  And not only they but we ourselves also, which have the FIRST FRUITS of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING FOR THE ADOPTION, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: For what a man sees why would he hope for it?"

these verses say nothing of sin, have you answered my questions yet? from my last reply and several other replies?

[Brian Kelley]

Of course we aren't being transformed into sinners.  However, while we continue to sin, what are we?  We certainly aren't perfect.  You can't answer "Are you perfect?" with "I was told to be."  Name one person besides our Lord who is perfect in their lives, even after being saved.  I cannot.  Therefore, all sin, and if all sin, all are sinners, not in the sense that our lives are ruled by sin, but in that we have not yet attained perfection in our actions, only in the actions of Christ.

[kamakaz]

Of course we aren't being transformed into sinners.  However, while we continue to sin, what are we?  We certainly aren't perfect.  You can't answer "Are you perfect?" with "I was told to be."  Name one person besides our Lord who is perfect in their lives, even after being saved.  I cannot.  Therefore, all sin, and if all sin, all are sinners, not in the sense that our lives are ruled by sin, but in that we have not yet attained perfection in our actions, only in the actions of Christ.

i believe there are people who get to that level, if Jesus commanded people to do that very thing, then it is difinitily within our grasp. but not within ourselves, only with the Lord guiding and directing us, only when we cruisify the flesh, were sin lives at, sin does not live within the spirit, and what spirit do we have in us, Gods spirit, so yes we can achieve perfection, even in this lifetime.

[Brian Kelley]

Of course we aren't being transformed into sinners.  However, while we continue to sin, what are we?  We certainly aren't perfect.  You can't answer "Are you perfect?" with "I was told to be."  Name one person besides our Lord who is perfect in their lives, even after being saved.  I cannot.  Therefore, all sin, and if all sin, all are sinners, not in the sense that our lives are ruled by sin, but in that we have not yet attained perfection in our actions, only in the actions of Christ.

i believe there are people who get to that level, if Jesus commanded people to do that very thing, then it is difinitily within our grasp. but not within ourselves, only with the Lord guiding and directing us, only when we cruisify the flesh, were sin lives at, sin does not live within the spirit, and what spirit do we have in us, Gods spirit, so yes we can achieve perfection, even in this lifetime.

That's a good goal, but until we reach perfection if it is possible, we still commit sins against God now and then, correct?  The vast majority of disciples haven't attained perfection, correct?

[kamakaz]

correct and i think i know where u are going but ok.....correct

[Jaime]

Of course we aren't being transformed into sinners.  However, while we continue to sin, what are we?  We certainly aren't perfect.  You can't answer "Are you perfect?" with "I was told to be."  Name one person besides our Lord who is perfect in their lives, even after being saved.  I cannot.  Therefore, all sin, and if all sin, all are sinners, not in the sense that our lives are ruled by sin, but in that we have not yet attained perfection in our actions, only in the actions of Christ.

i believe there are people who get to that level, if Jesus commanded people to do that very thing, then it is difinitily within our grasp. but not within ourselves, only with the Lord guiding and directing us, only when we cruisify the flesh, were sin lives at, sin does not live within the spirit, and what spirit do we have in us, Gods spirit, so yes we can achieve perfection, even in this lifetime.

That's a good goal, but until we reach perfection if it is possible, we still commit sins against God now and then, correct?  The vast majority of disciples haven't attained perfection, correct?

I would say with assurance that it is 100% not vast majority.

[kamakaz]

what makes you think that, you know the hearts and minds of every believer alive, past present and future?

[Jaime]

what makes you think that, you know the hearts and minds of every believer alive, past present and future?

There was only one perfect human being, Jesus. Is that not the case?

[kamakaz]

what makes you think that, you know the hearts and minds of every believer alive, past present and future?

There was only one perfect human being, Jesus. Is that not the case?

up to that point yes, but if Jesus told us, rather commanded us, to as well, as well as at least twice commanding someone to sin no more, then yes it is possible, not easy, but possible.

[Jaime]

what makes you think that, you know the hearts and minds of every believer alive, past present and future?

There was only one perfect human being, Jesus. Is that not the case?

up to that point yes, but if Jesus told us, rather commanded us, to as well, as well as at least twice commanding someone to sin no more, then yes it is possible, not easy, but possible.

Well then I stand corrected. 

[Robert Pate]

Kamakaz

You are teaching Holiness doctrine.  Christ crucified our flesh, this is not something that we do. 

[kamakaz]

Kamakaz

You are teaching Holiness doctrine.  Christ crucified our flesh, this is not something that we do. 

no i was quoting scripture. which you appearently do not want to talk about.

besides are we not to be holy? 'Present your bodies a living sacrifice HOLY and acceptable to the Lord.

do you just ignore scriptures? i really do not get that...

[Jaime]

The adultress he kept from getting stoned that he told to go and sin no more, I believe she didn't commit the sin of adultry again. Did she sin in some way the rest of her life? Of course she did.

[Brian Kelley]

Since we're agreed that the vast majority, if not all, have not attained perfection and therefore still commit sin now and again, even if that sin is later repented of, I'll continue.

I say that I am a sinner (and by saying this I say that all less-than-perfect people are sinners) because I slip up now and again and sin against God.  This is not something I'm proud of, but it would be a lie to say otherwise.  Why must we hide from this by getting defensive at the mention of our imperfection?  We should not be defensive, but encouraging others to strive for that perfection Jesus wishes for us.  I am a sinner, and you are a sinner, because we commit sin.  That's all the word means, and that's what we use it to mean.  If you're worried about what an onlooker would think, I would say it is better for the onlooker to understand that we are not perfect.

There are more than just "One who is unsaved" and "One who never ever sins against God".  These are not the only two types of people.

[kamakaz]

The adultress he kept from getting stoned that he told to go and sin no more, I believe she didn't commit the sin of adultry again. Did she sin in some way the rest of her life? Of course she did.

but that is not what He said, He did not say, go and commit adultry no more, He said sin no more, there was another instance as well, where it says do not sin, i quoted in in one of my previous replies.

[kamakaz]

Since we're agreed that the vast majority, if not all, have not attained perfection and therefore still commit sin now and again, even if that sin is later repented of, I'll continue.

I say that I am a sinner (and by saying this I say that all less-than-perfect people are sinners) because I slip up now and again and sin against God.  This is not something I'm proud of, but it would be a lie to say otherwise.  Why must we hide from this by getting defensive at the mention of our imperfection?  We should not be defensive, but encouraging others to strive for that perfection Jesus wishes for us.  I am a sinner, and you are a sinner, because we commit sin.  That's all the word means, and that's what we use it to mean.  If you're worried about what an onlooker would think, I would say it is better for the onlooker to understand that we are not perfect.

There are more than just "One who is unsaved" and "One who never ever sins against God".  These are not the only two types of people.

and you get defensive when someone brings up holyness. and i still do not claim the title of 'sinner' but rather Son of God who is not yet perfected. to each their own though.

[Brian Kelley]

I don't get defensive when people bring up holiness.  When did that happen?

[Jaime]

The adultress he kept from getting stoned that he told to go and sin no more, I believe she didn't commit the sin of adultry again. Did she sin in some way the rest of her life? Of course she did.

but that is not what He said, He did not say, go and commit adultry no more, He said sin no more, there was another instance as well, where it says do not sin, i quoted in in one of my previous replies.

I know that's what it says, she was certainly capable of not committing adultry as all of us are. But she was not capable of not sinning anymore. Jesus's comment was directed at her sin of adultry by the context of his statement.

She was still cowering on the ground because of the angry crowd's reaction to her being caught in adultry, an offense punishable by stoning. After Jesus skillfully handled the accusers, He said:

Joh 8:10  And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee?
Joh 8:11  And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more.

To me this obviously means that Jesus didn't condemn her for adultry, but he insisted she go and not commit adultry any more. If she could remain totallly sinless from that time forward, we didn't need Jesus to save us, we could save ourselves all we would need was his command. Not true, we need his blood. This in no way minimizes the good goal to strive for bettering our selves.

[kamakaz]

that was not directed at anyone in particular (except robert who does seem to be quite defensive) along with others who have posted.

[Brian Kelley]

Fair enough.  My apologies.

[kamakaz]

The adultress he kept from getting stoned that he told to go and sin no more, I believe she didn't commit the sin of adultry again. Did she sin in some way the rest of her life? Of course she did.

but that is not what He said, He did not say, go and commit adultry no more, He said sin no more, there was another instance as well, where it says do not sin, i quoted in in one of my previous replies.

I know that's what it says, she was certainly capable of not committing adultry as all of us are. But she was not capable of not sinning anymore. Jesus's comment was directed at her sin of adultry by the context of his statement.

no i disagree, He would have been specific if He meant to be specific, He charged her with a great command, go and Sin no more! period. and is that really unreasonable, she should have been dead right their on the spot, but He saved her life, so that seems like a hard but reasonable command.

[Jaime]

The adultress he kept from getting stoned that he told to go and sin no more, I believe she didn't commit the sin of adultry again. Did she sin in some way the rest of her life? Of course she did.

but that is not what He said, He did not say, go and commit adultry no more, He said sin no more, there was another instance as well, where it says do not sin, i quoted in in one of my previous replies.

I know that's what it says, she was certainly capable of not committing adultry as all of us are. But she was not capable of not sinning anymore. Jesus's comment was directed at her sin of adultry by the context of his statement.

no i disagree, He would have been specific if He meant to be specific, He charged her with a great command, go and Sin no more! period. and is that really unreasonable, she should have been dead right their on the spot, but He saved her life, so that seems like a hard but reasonable command.

Sorry Kamakaz, I don't see it that way. But more power to ya bro.

[kamakaz]

that is not the only scripture that says do not sin. not to mention the command, to be perfect as Jesus (and God in another scripture) is perfect.

so again i ask, where is sin in perfection?

[Brian Kelley]

Jesus has graciously accepted the punishment for all my sin.

Kamakaz, are you saying that if I am not completely perfect, I am damned?

[kamakaz]

Jesus has graciously accepted the punishment for all my sin.

Kamakaz, are you saying that if I am not completely perfect, I am damned?

no i am not, when we do sin, we repent and ask forgiveness. however sin should not be part of our regular lives, nor shall we accept sin as just the way it is, but rather we should hate it as God hates it. Grace covers us when we slip back into the flesh.

[Brian Kelley]

Jesus has graciously accepted the punishment for all my sin.

Kamakaz, are you saying that if I am not completely perfect, I am damned?

no i am not, when we do sin, we repent and ask forgiveness. however sin should not be part of our regular lives, nor shall we accept sin as just the way it is, but rather we should hate it as God hates it. Grace covers us when we slip back into the flesh.

Completely agreed

[Jaime]

Jesus has graciously accepted the punishment for all my sin.

Kamakaz, are you saying that if I am not completely perfect, I am damned?

no i am not, when we do sin, we repent and ask forgiveness. however sin should not be part of our regular lives, nor shall we accept sin as just the way it is, but rather we should hate it as God hates it. Grace covers us when we slip back into the flesh.

No argument here.

[Sherman Nobles]

Actually, I believe, sin is far more a part of our lives than we realize.  In fact, everything we do, everything we say, every thought we take is tragically polluted with our sinful nature.  We are far more wicked than we realize.  The closer we get to the Lord, the more we realize just how twisted we are in attitudes and actions.  We humans are so far from the perfection of Christ that the absolute best of us are wicked and evil and completely dependent upon the mercy and grace of God.

Of course, the closer we get to the Lord, the more his presence purifies and cleanses us, so we run to Him and not from Him.