I WANT MY HUSBAND BACK! BUT HE'S MARRIED!

[janine]

Well... there are some folks who would consider that they weren't divorced, not really.  There are some folks who'd figure it was the good and right thing for them to be back together, in the same household.  No matter what kind of abuse the guy dished out.

Re: comment elsewhere -- I think it was 4Christ on the MDR thread du jour --

I don't think the matter, the dynamic,  is that most people are out there waving the Grace flag and jumping up and down on the Grace bandwagon to excuse their infidelities and their repeated M-D-R's.

MOST people don't give a rip.

Most people aren't Christians.

And most of the ones who lay claim to that label do not pay as much attention to the plain reading of the Scriptures by every man, not as much as we do.

But -- but -- among those of us who hold the Word precious and who try to incorporate Scripture into our decision-making processes, there are a growing number who have been tripped and tackled and Damascus-road blinded by the tidal wave effect of grace.

This happens when you finally realize how very much you, yourself, needed that grace from the beginning, and how much you need it still.

It's difficult to work up a properly condemning head of steam against others' blatant sins when you realize that yours, while maybe not so blatant all the time, have hurt Jesus just as much.

[4Christ]

Well... there are some folks who would consider that they weren't divorced, not really.  There are some folks who'd figure it was the good and right thing for them to be back together, in the same household.  No matter what kind of abuse the guy dished out.

Re: comment elsewhere -- I think it was 4Christ on the MDR thread du jour --

I don't think the matter, the dynamic,  is that most people are out there waving the Grace flag and jumping up and down on the Grace bandwagon to excuse their infidelities and their repeated M-D-R's.

MOST people don't give a rip.

Most people aren't Christians.

And most of the ones who lay claim to that label do not pay as much attention to the plain reading of the Scriptures by every man, not as much as we do.

But -- but -- among those of us who hold the Word precious and who try to incorporate Scripture into our decision-making processes, there are a growing number who have been tripped and tackled and Damascus-road blinded by the tidal wave effect of grace.

This happens when you finally realize how very much you, yourself, needed that grace from the beginning, and how much you need it still.

It's difficult to work up a properly condemning head of steam against others' blatant sins when you realize that yours, while maybe not so blatant all the time, have hurt Jesus just as much.

Janine,

Quite frankly I question how you are called a "moderator".  You intentionally find those things that might inflame in a post, and make them the focus of your own barbs.  A moderator is to facilitate discussion in an objective manner.  You have made your position about me very plain.  I am a certified group facilitator and I've never seen such a poor example of facilitation or moderation.  I am here as a poster.  My opinions, emotional state, etc. will sometimes be intensified based upon many factors.  Although I will try not to break forum rules, I may say something that "pushes someone's buttons".  As a moderator, YOU should be stoic and non-judging in your approach to posters in these forums.  I can tell you, you are anything but non-judging.   

My stance on MDR and abuse is that an abused spouse should leave an abusive environment with no questions asked.  God has not called any of us to be punching bags for another person. What I support is 1Co 7:10  And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:  1Co 7:11  But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
I do believe that many christians today "presume" upon the grace of our Lord Jesus.  Living life as they want to and disregarding that we are to be obedient to his Word; not because we are trying to become worthy through works; but because we are worthy based upon His wonderful sacrifice for us in the shedding of His precious blood.   I don't need to be reminded by you of what I wretch I am.  Because Jesus is my Lord and Savior, I already know and I have accepted His sacrafice for my sins. 

I would prefer that you not respond to any further posts of mine.  I ask this of you because I don't like your method of moderation.  Is that allowed at GC? 

[HRoberson]

I'm thinking I'm in the same boat with Janine.

The 'church discipline' texts have to do with behaving in love, with a view toward brining people back to the fellowship (and at the same time protecting the fellowship from perverse practices).

Those texts are not intended as weapons to make others hurt, or to gain feelings of satisfaction for me.

Since those of us who have been around awhile have already gone around this bush more than a few times, I will simply suggest that Jesus' words do not stand in a vacuum. Rather, their import must be determined from an understanding of the context in which they were uttered. The specific application of text is not always as clear cut as we would like it to be.

In the texts that we have, the Jewish men were dumping their wives so that they could chase and bed the next sweet thing that came along. It is in this context that Jesus limits the purpose of divorce to unfaithfulness of the spouse. In this case, divorce is "acceptable." But, these guys weren't getting divorced because of some infidelity, but due to their lust, thinking that they were just fine in doing so - having met the letter of the law. But what they had actually done was commit adultery already - they weren't as clean as they thought they were.

However, a second marriage is not adultery, nor is having sex with someone to whom you are married. It also seems that if God does hate divorce, He wouldn't want to create another one simply to solve an earlier problem of adultery.

All of this is about our hearts, not our behavior (except as our behaviors reveal our hearts); what kind of people we are.

And so, while you are rightly hurt, if you want to be righteous, your care for his new wife must improve. You cannot treat her or him as though they are your enemies. This does not mean that they didn't do anything "wrong" or that you aren't hurt. It does mean that your focus in life is not to be on you, but on others.

To quickly address your question about congregational behavior toward divorced people, I offer the following.

People get divorced; it happens. As a congregation, we want everyone to be saved and reconciled. That does not mean that we don't counsel with divorcing/divorced people, trying to get them to remain together and care for one another. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. We perceive the sin, however, in the breaking of the commitment, not in sexual behavior. Once the commitment has been trashed, the sin has been done. It is now time to help both parties move on, learn from the event, and grow closer to God. We would be happy to have both members of the couple, and their [future] partners remain in the congregation - monied or not.

[dallasapple]

Hey!

I think that he would have to have been forgiven for his initial adultry if he asked..and so maybe his new marriage is in fact new..God hates divorce also would be forgiven(even though he's a soundrel) if he has asked..

Im just thinking... I dont really know anything...accept if God hates divorce and his new marriage is in fact a marriage in His eyes that he would hate it if he did it again..How can you repent of a sin if you keep doing it...?

Also on a more "secular" note...its sounds as if your husband has lived out an "infatuation" with his affair..and now sees the value of what ya'll had...and his regret is evident...He may be starting to see this "o.w" now his wife is quite a bit of work too...Not as easy as he thought...Not all for him...

Now he's gone and gotten himself in a mess and doesnt know what to do...Maybe he thought he knew more than God and now he realizes he was wrong.....

What a pickle!!!!

Also 4Christ I respect your feelings...I think its healthy...you were with your husband for 25 years...your one and only husband to this day...I respect that you asked this question...

I might myself ask or feel the same way  you do  if I were  in your same boat...

Love Ya!!!

Blessings

Dallas

[janine]

I am extra-glad that you are a certified group facilitator, 4Christ.  Undoubtedly I have much to learn from you.  Maybe you could give me stoic lessons.

My only training along any similar lines has been as a rape crisis counselor.  I.E., I was the one who'd get the call to sit in the emergency room with the 16-year-old rape survivor, to hold her hand and advocate for her with the police photograper and the physician doing the evidence collection kit, to help her unhelpfully freaked-out relatives to calm down for her sake, etc.

If you feel I was hard on you... then maybe I am not perceiving you as enough of a helpless victim for my training to kick in.  Sorry about that.

And since I am a moderator, particularly of this section, I'm afraid you cannot completely avoid having me reply to you.  I will try to ignore you as much as possible if it makes you feel better.

Any further complaints, take it to Lee Admin.

[4Christ]

I am extra-glad that you are a certified group facilitator, 4Christ.  Undoubtedly I have much to learn from you.  Maybe you could give me stoic lessons.

My only training along any similar lines has been as a rape crisis counselor.  I.E., I was the one who'd get the call to sit in the emergency room with the 16-year-old rape survivor, to hold her hand and advocate for her with the police photograper and the physician doing the evidence collection kit, to help her unhelpfully freaked-out relatives to calm down for her sake, etc.

If you feel I was hard on you... then maybe I am not perceiving you as enough of a helpless victim for my training to kick in.  Sorry about that.

And since I am a moderator, particularly of this section, I'm afraid you cannot completely avoid having me reply to you.  I will try to ignore you as much as possible if it makes you feel better.

Any further complaints, take it to Lee Admin.

Last time Ms. Moderator,

I too was a rape crisis counselor.  It is indeed an extremely difficult job, and the thing I most remember about it is to protect the one raped from ANY and ALL behaviors that show condemnation against HER.  You flunked with me!

You see, just as with a rape victim; I and my children were the ones violated when my husband decided not to work on his marriage and go to be with someone else.  I was the one who lay broken, bruised, abandoned, and forsaken.  My children were the ones left to see a father who no longer wanted to be with them (he divorced them too).  Yet, you didn't take me (the broken one) and shelter me from harm from others who would be less accepting of my violation.  Instead you proceeded to be the one who judged and attacked the one "raped".  Just as a rape victim is sometimes made by others to feel that "she" caused the rape; you made me feel that my "attitude" was unforgiving and "holier-than-thou".  Would you ask a "rape" victim to forgive her rapist at the time when she is most hurting and vunerable?  At some point, the victim may come to a place of forgiveness, but it is usually a long process to get there.  I've forgiven my "rapist" (ex-husband) and his accomplice (new woman).  But I have not healed from the hurt of the rape.  It takes time. 

[4Christ]

Hey!

I think that he would have to have been forgiven for his initial adultry if he asked..and so maybe his new marriage is in fact new..God hates divorce also would be forgiven(even though he's a soundrel) if he has asked..

Im just thinking... I dont really know anything...accept if God hates divorce and his new marriage is in fact a marriage in His eyes that he would hate it if he did it again..How can you repent of a sin if you keep doing it...?

Also on a more "secular" note...its sounds as if your husband has lived out an "infatuation" with his affair..and now sees the value of what ya'll had...and his regret is evident...He may be starting to see this "o.w" now his wife is quite a bit of work too...Not as easy as he thought...Not all for him...

Now he's gone and gotten himself in a mess and doesnt know what to do...Maybe he thought he knew more than God and now he realizes he was wrong.....

What a pickle!!!!

Also 4Christ I respect your feelings...I think its healthy...you were with your husband for 25 years...your one and only husband to this day...I respect that you asked this question...

I might myself ask or feel the same way  you do  if I were  in your same boat...

Love Ya!!!

Blessings

Dallas

Dallas my sister, thank you for trying to understand.  I asked the question about adultery if I remarried my husband because I so regret the demise of my 25 year marriage and I do wonder if trying to "fix" the mistake is something I MUST do.  My ex committed adultery by remarrying.  I know he is forgiven for the sin if he truly repented of it.  But how does one repent from something that he/she wanted and still remain in it?  This is something I don't understand.  Repentence means to turn away from.  What has he turned away from in his repentence?  Oh well, I guess it is not my place to answer this, but is between him and the Lord.  But you know what, the Lord also tells us in His word in James 5:20  Let him know that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death and shall hide a multitude of sins.    

[dallasapple]

Your welcome sister 4Christ....

I think what trips me up is trying to understand if his "new" wife is not really his wife.I mean is his marriage not recognized by God...

That one throws me for  loop...If he is married in Gods eyes to the other woman then how could he be in the right to divorce again...

Obviously if his marriage is still nothing but an adultess realtionship outside of his "real" marriage to you then he is living in sin and so is she.....Byt living in sin I mean specifically ongoing adultry day in and day out..Every minute of their relationship woudl be in fact sin against God and you his wife....

Or I guess another way to look at it is the "divorce" was not "legal" in a spritual way..so you were never divorced in Gods eyes to begin with therefore he could never have possibly re-maried.He's just shackin up for lack of a better term.....

Boing!

Yo-yo!

Just thinking out loud and pondering with ya girl.....

Blessings

Dallas

[dallasapple]

Divorce and remarriage is not a "sin" that one slips and falls into.  It is a deliberate, well-thought out action in which there is plenty of time to seek the Lord for Godly direction.  Therefore, it truly is willful sinning IMO.

Here is another thought kinda just popped in my head...A lot of sins and in fact most are not somethign we just 'slipped" and fell into.... I mean deliberately lying,murdering,stealing,being harsh and hateful ON PURPOUS just to hurt someone and on and on and on ....Even ignoring needs of others deliberately..there are many many puposely acted out and pre-planned sins.....Same with adultry/divorce........

But how  I'm  thinking of divorce right this second is like a death..Like your husband delieberately pre-planned and "killed " your marriage...the same as if I go out right now and kill someone ....they are dead.They cant come back..right....even  if I repent..never 'kill again" am remorseful the person is STILL dead...Am I livign in "perpetual murder"? Because  I can not "undo" the death of another person.....

Maybe thats why God "hates divorce" becuase he views it as a death of something sacred that he loves and wants for us just like life...and once its done it can not be "undone"....Even people who divorce and remarry each other have a "new" marriage...Its not considered the old marrriage survived...there is a "new' marriage....

Blessings

Dallas

[4Christ]

Divorce and remarriage is not a "sin" that one slips and falls into.  It is a deliberate, well-thought out action in which there is plenty of time to seek the Lord for Godly direction.  Therefore, it truly is willful sinning IMO.

Here is another thought kinda just popped in my head...A lot of sins and in fact most are not somethign we just 'slipped" and fell into.... I mean deliberately lying,murdering,stealing,being harsh and hateful ON PURPOUS just to hurt someone and on and on and on ....Even ignoring needs of others deliberately..there are many many puposely acted out and pre-planned sins.....Same with adultry/divorce........

But how  I'm  thinking of divorce right this second is like a death..Like your husband delieberately pre-planned and "killed " your marriage...the same as if I go out right now and kill someone ....they are dead.They cant come back..right....even  if I repent..never 'kill again" am remorseful the person is STILL dead...Am I livign in "perpetual murder"? Because  I can not "undo" the death of another person.....

Maybe thats why God "hates divorce" becuase he views it as a death of something sacred that he loves and wants for us just like life...and once its done it can not be "undone"....Even people who divorce and remarry each other have a "new" marriage...Its not considered the old marrriage survived...there is a "new' marriage....

Blessings

Dallas

Dallas, I think you are right about the "death" of my marriage.  I believe that in my heart I will always be his "wife".  In my own heart.  Therefore I will choose to remain single and celibate in service to the Lord no matter what he has done.  I will honor my vows even if he didn't.  In some situations, divorce does happen.  But the real problems occur IMO in the remarriage.  Jesus doesn't call divorce "adultery", he calls the remarriage after the divorce adultery.  I believe that this is because the remarriage closes ALL doors to reconciliation.  The spouses can never, ever become "one flesh" again.  The relationship is truly dead.

In this thread I think I was expressing what I truly want, but in my heart I knew it couldn't happen.  I am starting to face the fact that he put our marriage asunder because he didn't want ME anymore.  It's just that simple.  25 years and so much sharing of life down the drain.     At least I have my two beautiful children to be thankful for and I am.  It's been a great mother's day!     ::smile::How about yours Dallas?  Happy Mother's Day sister! 

And thanks for not making me feel like a silly, whimpy, sniveling fool!   

[4Christ]

Dallas, one other thing....the reason I think "divorce" is a sin that kind of sits apart from others is that it takes a full year in most states to even get one.  Even the laws of the land recognize that marriage is sacred and not to be sundered frivously or easily.  During the waiting time for the divorce; I believe that if a christian spouse is wanting to work on the marriage and does not want the divorce under any circumstances and the other spouse goes ahead with it - then it has become something far greater than stealing one time, or deliberately saying a hateful word to someone. 

Unforgiveness, lack of trust in God, and maybe even rebellion are terms that come to mind.  This is also the time I think the Matthew 18 church restoration process can and should be used.  But that is a topic for the theology forum...I have started a topic on this there.   

[dallasapple]

In this thread I think I was expressing what I truly want, but in my heart I knew it couldn't happen.  I am starting to face the fact that he put our marriage asunder because he didn't want ME anymore.  It's just that simple.  25 years and so much sharing of life down the drain.     At least I have my two beautiful children to be thankful for and I am.  It's been a great mother's day!     ::smile::How about yours Dallas?  Happy Mother's Day sister!

And thanks for not making me feel like a silly, whimpy, sniveling fool!   

Never would I make you feel like that... you are not...you are a sweet lovign and adored child of our Lord who died for you and me...We are the same even though we are diferent...

And I cry for your pain...  I hate it that you hurt  I  soo doo.......If your silly then Im silly...then we are all silly...

OH and CRYING IS GOOD FOR YOU!!!  JESUS CRIED!!! so dont call it sniveling...lest I be a snivleler myself...and we can all snivel with Christ!!! LOL!!!

And you areant a wimp either...Lest I be one!(yet again)..You are strong and tender...No wimp in there ....

I contemplate myself in your place...together we would snivel and "wimp" around to try to make sense..Just like all the unfair things in life that we do....

Its O.K .....We see and we know...There He is in the smallest of things...There He is in the biggest..He is here..and He is there...He is everywhere no matter how afraid we are...

And we have each other in the meantime...an awesome thing...LOVE!!!   Ya know today at church our pastor told us we can see the face of Jesus in one another...

Thy Kindom come thy will be done...on Earth as it is in Heaven......Kindom come is us where His will is seeking to be done..We are on Earth as it is in Heaven...

Blessings

Dallas

[OldDad]

I would prefer that you not respond to any further posts of mine.  I ask this of you because I don't like your method of moderation.  Is that allowed at GC? 

Actually, no...  This is an open forum and discussion.  You can report bad behavior and ill manners, you disagree vehemently as long as you stay within the rules, and you are free to ignore anything/anyone you want to (though prepared to be called out on it)...

But although you are free to request that a person not reply to you, there's no way to prevent them from ignoring your request.

Also, here at GCM the "way things are" is that moderators are also full and free participants in any and all discussions.   We let topics live or die on their own, as long as everyone plays by the rules, and our role is helping folks play nice.

Hope this helps.

[4Christ]

I would prefer that you not respond to any further posts of mine.  I ask this of you because I don't like your method of moderation.  Is that allowed at GC? 

Actually, no...  This is an open forum and discussion.  You can report bad behavior and ill manners, you disagree vehemently as long as you stay within the rules, and you are free to ignore anything/anyone you want to (though prepared to be called out on it)...

But although you are free to request that a person not reply to you, there's no way to prevent them from ignoring your request.

Also, here at GCM the "way things are" is that moderators are also full and free participants in any and all discussions.   We let topics live or die on their own, as long as everyone plays by the rules, and our role is helping folks play nice.

Hope this helps.

Thank you kindly for your response.  I am mature enough to respond to people in a respectful manner.  The only thing I ask is that I am responded to "in kind".  Have a blessed day OldDad (I like that name).   

[FoC]

4Christ....
We're praying for you sister.

We all know my views on MDR, so theres no need to preach them in this thread. But I did want to tell you that we love you and are always keeping you in our prayers....

[4Christ]

4Christ....
We're praying for you sister.

We all know my views on MDR, so theres no need to preach them in this thread. But I did want to tell you that we love you and are always keeping you in our prayers....

FOC,

Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart.  When I wrote this post; I was in the pitts of hell.  I was confused, angry, sad (all the same emotions came back like it was yesterday). 

I truly don't want my ex to leave his wife and return to me.  It would never work between us again anyway.  I am over him and the marriage.  It is truly DONE in my heart, spirit, and mind. 

I really appreciate my dear friends like you and Dallas being there when I couldn't see anything but despair.  Thank God the sun is shining again!     I feel like praising the Lord again!   

[zoonance]

One thing we call agree with ... Divorce sucks.  It hurts deep - horizontally and vertically.  The sun will shine again!

[WileyClarkson]

4Christ

I believe that in my heart I will always be his "wife".  In my own heart.  Therefore I will choose to remain single and celibate in service to the Lord no matter what he has done.  I will honor my vows even if he didn't.   

I truly don't want my ex to leave his wife and return to me.  It would never work between us again anyway.  I am over him and the marriage.  It is truly DONE in my heart, spirit, and mind.

Whether you wish to admit it or not, your statements above indicate a considerable amount of movement in your thinking and your feelings so posting here has indeed helped you.  Even your discussions with Janine, who is very good at sayings things in a way that DO make one think!

I have spent alot of time on several topics of study over the last few years that for many Christians, especially for those in the churches of Christ, are very controversial to say the least, and for many, have been sources of extreme pain, especially from those in our congregations who have not studied but taken only the traditional views on these subjects.  Divorce is one of those topics.  Gender equality is another.

While I believe divorce is wrong (been married for 33 years), it is not an unforgivable sin as is taught by the traditionalists and what is more, it is not a continueing sin.  It is a one time sin.  It is the breaking of a covenant and once a covenant is broken, it is no longer a covenant that is in effect.  When your ex divorce you, that was the sin.   You are no longer married to him. Not in the eyes of the world or in the eyes of God.  Yes, God hates divorce but what I suspect he hates much more is when the traditionlists, through their teaching  that divorce is an on-going sin, causes more marriages to break up so that the old marriage which was "never done away with" in their views can become whole again.  Sin added to sin, added to more sin, and the traditionlists can not see that!  You said you will honor your vows then said "I am over him and the marriage. It is truly DONE in my heart, spirit, and mind."   You are free of the vows of your marriage.  The covenant is broken, the vows have been broken and are no longer in affect.  Go on with your life.  Totally forgive your ex and realize that God may just have a much better life planned for you with a new spouse who will exceed all of your wildest dreams! 

[janine]

Not to mention that, even if you never remarry, you just might be better off without a man who would toss you and your kids over the side for another.

[4Christ]

Not to mention that, even if you never remarry, you just might be better off without a man who would toss you and your kids over the side for another.

Thanks again to those of you who wanted to help me when I was in such despair.  You know, I believe there are some "truths" to both sides of the MDR debate.  The hatred I believe God has for divorce has to do with those divorces that occur for frivolous purposes (I want this person instead of you).  The fact is, divorce is allowed for reasons of fornication in the words of Jesus.  I believe that divorce outside of that is the sin of adultery if someone remarries.

The question for me is not if my marriage is over, but can I really remarry?  Didn't Jesus say that whosoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.  Why would I want to abet sin of adultery by marriage to me?  Either way, I am alone for the rest of my days whether I want to be or not.  Right?

[OpDagger]

I just read this whole thread, and it's left me with the same question.  Although, as far as I can tell, it isn't much of a question at all, the Bible seems pretty clear.  For some reason, the one who has been wrongly divorced seems to also be banned from future marriage.  Although, after typing that and reading the passage several times, I got to thinking: When this was written, I am assuming that the difference between women and men from society's point of view was totally different from today's.  It sounds as though the man is the one with the right to divorce and marry, and the woman(from a legal standpoint, I'm sure she had a choice in the matter :P) does not have that right.  It even attributes adultery to the man who marries this divorced woman(is the woman in question here the one who was wrongly divorced?), not the woman herself.  There are other passages that speak of a woman being called an adulteress(someone in here mentioned that earlier), so this shows that obviously adultery itself isn't only attributed to a man(this is God's law, not the law of the land, which was heavily man-centered in those days AFAIK)  So, all that being said, I'm left with this question: First, if the woman who has been wrongly divorced marries, does she not commit adultery?  I mean, I wouldn't think that she would, but then it says that the guy who is now marrying her does, which certainly suggests this is a wrong action.  I guess it doesn't ultimately matter, the important thing is that the Bible is clear on remarriage being wrong.
So that's it for my take on this thing.  I also wanted to say that I think(maybe I'm wrong) that I know exactly where you're coming from when you talk about everyone siding with the cheating husband and other woman in these kinds of situations.  It seems to be the same in every other aspect of life as well, (many people fight for years to the protect the rights of a murderer, and end up twisting it so badly that the victim is the evil one, and this murderer is only a poor victim).  But I digress, I had better not get off on a tangent there, as it'd be easy, haha.  Most importantly, I wanted to say to you 4Christ: You are not alone for the rest of your days, not by a long shot.  You have a best friend/confidant/provider/father/savior who will never leave you or forsake you.  God is the only One in this world or the next that you can ever rely on 100%, but you can do just that.  He is the greatest companion any human could ever dream of; it's the whole reason He created us, after all!  I'll be praying for you, big sister!

[janine]

One thing is for sure -- you study out them Scriptures and you figure it the heck out for yourself.

Sure, get some Godly advice.  Sure, ask scholarly people what they have found in study.

But if you feel like you could be walking through a minefield of sinful choices about being single or not -- and before you condemn yourself to a lifetime avoiding men, and before you brush it all off and marry again no matter what, either extreme  --

Base your decision on your own prayerful study.  We have the Holy Spirit prodding us along and we have the written Word.  We are foolish to lean on our own understanding apart from those things -- or on anyone else's own understanding.

[WileyClarkson]

The question for me is not if my marriage is over, but can I really remarry?  Didn't Jesus say that whosoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.  Why would I want to abet sin of adultery by marriage to me?  Either way, I am alone for the rest of my days whether I want to be or not.  Right?

Before you make the decision to subject yourself to a life of lonliness because of poorly translated Greek, why not do your own research into the particulars.  A good place to start is with Deryl's booklet "Marriage is God's Plan".  Another good place to get more information is "Down but Not Out" by Al Maxey.  There are others.  The point is that modern translations, by and large, do not do a very good job with the Greek to English when it comes to divorce and that results in a lot of misunderstanding.

You are free of your marriage vows because of your ex-husband's infidelity/adultry.  Your are not comitting adultry to marry again.  And you definitly don't have to take the ex-husband back to be in a non-sinful state (as many traditionlists will tell you!).  There is only one requirement that I can find that would apply in your case.  Look in
1st Corinthians.  See if you can find it 

[OkiMar]

Unless your divorce was a result of adultery on your part (and I don't think that is the case), then your husband is not REALLY married to the women of which you speak.  Thus he is the one committing adultery.  You may put him away since he has engaged in sexual immorality as a result of this current "marriage", but he is still bound to you.  If you are willing to forgive him, then he may end the adulterous relationship that he is now in and return to you.  You would not be committing adultery, since he is not really married to this woman in the first place. 

[4Christ]

Unless your divorce was a result of adultery on your part (and I don't think that is the case), then your husband is not REALLY married to the women of which you speak.  Thus he is the one committing adultery.  You may put him away since he has engaged in sexual immorality as a result of this current "marriage", but he is still bound to you.  If you are willing to forgive him, then he may end the adulterous relationship that he is now in and return to you.  You would not be committing adultery, since he is not really married to this woman in the first place. 

Thank you OkiMar for taking the time to respond to my situation.  This is an area that is quite confusing to me.

I know others who believe as you and up until very recently; I believed the same.  That a marriage is not over except through death or when fornication has occurred.  I worried about my ex's salvation when I believed in this way.

After my own study of the scriptures, I believe now that a marriage is over when one of the spouses obtains a divorce.  I don't believe that adultery voids a marriage; but I do believe that the act of divorce does.

IMHO, God tells us not to put asunder; but He does not tell us that we can't "put asunder".  A person who obtains a divorce then, for reason other than fornication, IMO sins.

If he/she remarries after that divorce (not obtained because of fornication/adultery), he/she commits adultery.

I am not convinced that the remarriage is on-going adultery, but feel it is a one-time act of adultery which can be forgiven. 

I believe this because God is the God of marriage.  If a man or woman has put asunder the marriage - God hates it - but He recognizes that the sundering took place.  A new marriage, IMO, is just as valid as the one left and a divorce undertaken to return to a previous spouse is just as "hated" by God. 

I often feel "tossed by every wind and doctrine" in issues surrounding MDR.  How will anyone ever know the truth about it? 

[zoonance]

Dallas, one other thing....the reason I think "divorce" is a sin that kind of sits apart from others is that it takes a full year in most states to even get one.  Even the laws of the land recognize that marriage is sacred and not to be sundered frivously or easily.  During the waiting time for the divorce; I believe that if a christian spouse is wanting to work on the marriage and does not want the divorce under any circumstances and the other spouse goes ahead with it - then it has become something far greater than stealing one time, or deliberately saying a hateful word to someone. 

Unforgiveness, lack of trust in God, and maybe even rebellion are terms that come to mind.  This is also the time I think the Matthew 18 church restoration process can and should be used.  But that is a topic for the theology forum...I have started a topic on this there.   

I am not sure our culture considers it 'sacred' anymore.  I suspect it all has something to do with money.  sacred institutions still considered sacred would be handled sacredly.  The divorce rate or the 'forget marriage altogether' craze has more momentum than the sacred vow.

[OkiMar]

Unless your divorce was a result of adultery on your part (and I don't think that is the case), then your husband is not REALLY married to the women of which you speak.  Thus he is the one committing adultery.  You may put him away since he has engaged in sexual immorality as a result of this current "marriage", but he is still bound to you.  If you are willing to forgive him, then he may end the adulterous relationship that he is now in and return to you.  You would not be committing adultery, since he is not really married to this woman in the first place. 

Thank you OkiMar for taking the time to respond to my situation.  This is an area that is quite confusing to me.

I know others who believe as you and up until very recently; I believed the same.  That a marriage is not over except through death or when fornication has occurred.  I worried about my ex's salvation when I believed in this way.

After my own study of the scriptures, I believe now that a marriage is over when one of the spouses obtains a divorce.  I don't believe that adultery voids a marriage; but I do believe that the act of divorce does.

IMHO, God tells us not to put asunder; but He does not tell us that we can't "put asunder".  A person who obtains a divorce then, for reason other than fornication, IMO sins.

If he/she remarries after that divorce (not obtained because of fornication/adultery), he/she commits adultery.

I am not convinced that the remarriage is on-going adultery, but feel it is a one-time act of adultery which can be forgiven. 

I believe this because God is the God of marriage.  If a man or woman has put asunder the marriage - God hates it - but He recognizes that the sundering took place.  A new marriage, IMO, is just as valid as the one left and a divorce undertaken to return to a previous spouse is just as "hated" by God. 

I often feel "tossed by every wind and doctrine" in issues surrounding MDR.  How will anyone ever know the truth about it? 

4Christ,

You are quite welcome.  Clearly I disagree that your ex-husband is a proper candidate for remarriage. You did mention one thing that I found interesting. You wrote, "IMHO, God tells us not to put asunder; but He does not tell us that we can't "put asunder"." This is 100% correct; God does not tell us that we can't put asunder.  In fact, he provides us with one exception in which he will allow us to severe the marriage bond..."except it be for fornication" - Mt 19:9.  So we see that God indeed has granted mankind the authorization to put asunder in cases of marital infidelity.  Fortunately or unfortunately, God's authorization to put asunder stops with this lone exception. 

Thanks.

[janine]

Yeah, I would say this is God's reason for divorce.

Unfortunately we are not at the mercy only of our God, but of man too.

I think the passages that make people think a person who falls to sin and commits adultery is somehow forever still married to you and thus ineligible for marriage, for that reason, are misunderstood.

If he is still married to you, then fine, he's a bigamist if he remarries.

But I contend he's not still married to you if, under the laws of the land where you live, your marriage has been dissolved.

The "real" marriage, the heart of the marriage, was the agreement between the two of you to me married.  A covenant between the two of you, if you like.  Which he has broken.  Then to top it off the civil legalities that recognized that were broken apart as well, with the divorce.

You obviously will find a whole spectrum of folks here, some who think you are eternally married to the man, pretty much a Mormon idea -- some who think you may be free to marry but he somehow still eternally married to you, and can't ever remarry because you or your broken promises or something is still hanging around his neck like some sort of albatross.

Frankly, you can find folks who will agree with you, almost no matter what you come here asking -- we are an eclectic bunch.

The point you need to take away is this -- what do you think?

Or more importantly, looking into the Scriptures prayerfully, what are you learning?

You are the one who has to make life decisions based on what you think God wants from you.

Are you content with what you believe at this point, or are you still studying it out?

And will your study be a refreshing time for you, drawing closer to God, or will it be picking at a scab of resentment, or will it be nothing more than an effort to find out exactly how, Scripturally speaking, your ex-husband and his new wife have sinned?

I hope it's the first one.

[OkiMar]

Janine,

If he is still married to you, then fine, he's a bigamist if he remarries.

Not if God doesn't recognize the 2nd, unscriptural marriage as being valid.

But I contend he's not still married to you if, under the laws of the land where you live, your marriage has been dissolved.

The law of the land in many, many countries condones and/or approves of abortion. Such laws do not supercede God's law against murder. (Of course, if you are pro-choice other example can be used to illustrate this principle.) The state does not dictate the will of the Father. We should only yield to the State to the extent that it is in congruence with the Father.

I do agree with Janine on one point: regardless of whether this man is committing adultery or not, the important thing is that you are not. Additionally, I don't know why you would want to return to a man who abandoned you for another woman. I know it hurts, but I advise you to let him go.

[janine]

Killing a human being (abortion) and "unwriting" a legal agreement (divorce) are two different things, Okimar.

[OkiMar]

The principle is the same. You suggest that the law of the land can dissolve a marriage despite what God has written. By the same logic, one could defer to the law of the land IRT abortion..."civil law assures me that it's all good."

[charlie]

Janine,

If he is still married to you, then fine, he's a bigamist if he remarries.

Not if God doesn't recognize the 2nd, unscriptural marriage as being valid.

He's just as married to his new wife as Jacob was to Rachel after he had already married Leah.

Janine's right. At best, he's a bigamist. At worst, he divorced his wife and married someone else. If it's impossible to get a "real" divorce for something besides fornication, then Jesus is forbidding something that is impossible to do.

[ConnieLard]

Every time I read the title of this thread I want to say, "Don't you mean you want your EX-husband back?"  He's not your husband any more.  He's someone else's.
(I've been there, btw.  It's hard to stop thinking of him as your husband, but, to me, that's a key to moving on.)

[OkiMar]

Janine,

If he is still married to you, then fine, he's a bigamist if he remarries.

Not if God doesn't recognize the 2nd, unscriptural marriage as being valid.

He's just as married to his new wife as Jacob was to Rachel after he had already married Leah.

Janine's right. At best, he's a bigamist. At worst, he divorced his wife and married someone else. If it's impossible to get a "real" divorce for something besides fornication, then Jesus is forbidding something that is impossible to do.

Not so. At worst he is living in an adulterous relationship with a woman that is not his "wife" as per Matt 19:3-9.

[charlie]

Janine,

If he is still married to you, then fine, he's a bigamist if he remarries.

Not if God doesn't recognize the 2nd, unscriptural marriage as being valid.

He's just as married to his new wife as Jacob was to Rachel after he had already married Leah.

Janine's right. At best, he's a bigamist. At worst, he divorced his wife and married someone else. If it's impossible to get a "real" divorce for something besides fornication, then Jesus is forbidding something that is impossible to do.

Not so. At worst he is living in an adulterous relationship with a woman that is not his "wife" as per Matt 19:3-9.

So when Jesus said he divorces one woman and marries another, he actually meant he didn't divorce one woman nor did he marry another. He was, in fact, just cheating on the first one.

I see.