Damaging Manhood or Pride? Help me Brothers and Sisters, pleease

[angeleyes]

First of praise God from whom all blessings flow and Howdy to all.

As some of you may know I have been dating this young man for a little over a month now. Everything was going smoothly until he loaned me money and I paid him back.

It all started a couple of weeks ago when I kindly asked him if I could borrow some money. I didn't ask for a certain amount, but told hikm that whatever he could give me would be helpful. So he gave me what I thought was a loan in the amount of $50.00.

So last Thursday I gave him a thank you card with $50.00 in the card thinking that he would like it and appreciate it, but then all of the sudden he stopped calling me for two days after I gave him the card.

He finally calls me on Sunday and explains to me that he felt that it was very disrespectful to give him money back and that he was really disappointed that I did this. 

So you could imagine how confused I became and I ended up apologizing to him for offending him(or may be his manhood).

I personally have never come across a man like this one before and am not used to this. Usually a man would be happy to know that the woman he is dating is not a gold-digger, but not in this case. Is this a man thing or is it a prideful thing? Please help me to figure this out because since then things haven't been the same between us.

[Mere Nick]

Just remind him you asked for a loan and you think he deserves a better girlfriend than a deadbeat.  However, it does seem strange that he would say anything at all.

Pride?  Well, if had Charlie's Pride and Johnny's Cash, I wouldn't have a Buck Owens.

[angeleyes]

Thanks Mere Nick. I'm just just trying to get a better understanding of where he is coming from. Till this day I am still baffled about the whole situation.

[janine]

I guess he was thinking, in his head, that it was not a loan.

Perhaps he wants to be your Sugar Daddy.

In which case, always get receipts.  Sugar Daddies go sour.

[janine]

And I'm not sure why you'd be borrowing money from a guy you've been dating a month.

If you picked up a new girl friend on your job, and you two worked together in the same office one month and got on well -- would you borrow money from her?

[angeleyes]

And I'm not sure why you'd be borrowing money from a guy you've been dating a month.

If you picked up a new girl friend on your job, and you two worked together in the same office one month and got on well -- would you borrow money from her?

Well, I was in a really tough bind and no one else could lend me any money. So I asked him since we are good friends with the intent that I would pay him back.

I guess he was thinking, in his head, that it was not a loan.

Perhaps he wants to be your Sugar Daddy.

In which case, always get receipts.  Sugar Daddies go sour.

I hope that he doesn't want to be my Sugar Daddy because that is not what I am looking for. He did make a good point though when he told me that we shouldn't really pay too much attention to what the other gives the other and if we were to break up expect to get back what we gave to each other,I.E., a car for me.

[Brian Millar]

He's an oddball, this behavior is not a guy thing, it's not anybody's thing.  I'd take it as a warning of what's to come.  If he's offended by this, think about how offended he would be if he had something "real" to take offense with.  Dating, gotta love it, at least you got him to reveal his true nature before you got too emotionally attached.

You aren't the same AngelEyes from the PI board are you?

Take care, Brian

[angeleyes]

Hi Brian, exactly what is the PI board? I don't consider his reaction to be bad just different than what I expected it to be and I just think that this is part of what makes him unique in his own way. I still like him very much, can't you tell, but I'm just going to have to watch him very closely and test his spirit out a lot.

Any advice on how to test his spirit, anyone?

[Brian Millar]

Angel, since you don't know what the PI board is, obviously you aren't from there, there is someone else that has that screen name there.  It's not a place I reccomend people to go to and will simply leave it at that.

Along testing his spirit, I think that's something only God can do, all you can do is test his character, of which, the current dilema is letting it come forth.  I gotta ask, how many dates do you normally have in a year?  How many boyfriends have you had?  I know, it's nosy, but there may be some pattern you are following where you are getting involved with these less then stable individuals and alot of people think they gotta keep playing the dating game to make them feel whole and they can't live without having someone in their lives.  I can say being single rocks if you can apprieciate it for what it is, freedom in all areas if you like your present company, ie. yourself.

Take care, Brian

[angeleyes]

Angel, since you don't know what the PI board is, obviously you aren't from there, there is someone else that has that screen name there.  It's not a place I reccomend people to go to and will simply leave it at that.

Along testing his spirit, I think that's something only God can do, all you can do is test his character, of which, the current dilema is letting it come forth.  I gotta ask, how many dates do you normally have in a year?  How many boyfriends have you had?  I know, it's nosy, but there may be some pattern you are following where you are getting involved with these less then stable individuals and alot of people think they gotta keep playing the dating game to make them feel whole and they can't live without having someone in their lives.  I can say being single rocks if you can apprieciate it for what it is, freedom in all areas if you like your present company, ie. yourself.

Take care, Brian

First off, I think that you are jumping to conclusions and judging and assassinating someone that you don't even know and that is absolutely absurd. I haven't known him that long and still need to get to know him better before I can make any decisions about whether to be with him or not. As for testing spirits Paul advises believers to test the spirits of others and Jesus says that we will know the true believers by their fruits.
For all I know it could be a part of his culture because he is not American, he is from Haiti. I really like him  a lot and I believe that he could honestly be the one for me.

As for boyfriends, know this that I have not had a string of boyfriends and don't appreciate what you are insinuating and it is really none of your business. Most of my relationships have been healthy ones with a few exceptions. When I was single I enjoyed being single for the most part, but being single isn't for everyone.

I don't believe that he is unstable because nothing else that he has done or said has indicated this. Why he got offended puzzles me, but you don't just break up with someone because they do something that you don't understand. So far he is the best man that I have ever met and an excellent Christian. He is the perfect gentleman and respects me. Who knows he might be more of a man than a lot of men that I know or have met.

[Brian Millar]

You left out an important element to your story, he's not from here, so, yeah, there is a cultural thing going on most likely.  If you mentioned that from the beginning, I wouldn't have wasted my time trying to help you.

Along judging, didn't you just judge me with your statement?  Also, who are you to determin someone's soul?

Along the relationship end, too many young people jump from one to another in a never ending pattern when they really should be growing up instead.  It sounds like you gotta work on that element since you so boldy blasted me here without thinking about my perspective, this is the reason I take young people's advice about relationships with a grain of salt, they simply need to mature before they know who they are, and knowing who they are is going to decide who is going to be optimal to be with them.

At the same time, these young people that bounce from one relationship to another are accumulating baggage that will tarnish future relationships.  The fact that you are sharing your baggage here with the present situation prompted me to ask some key questions. I'm very conservative about the spiritual implications in general, I am not a fundementalist, I remain quite grounded in my approach to all of this, and yes I still maintain a personal relationship with God, at the same time, I see things for what they are and much of what we experience that can be explained through logic  and rational thought should and not go off on the deep end thinking there is a supernatural reason.

If I was that guy and I read what you were saying here, I'd run, and do so quickly.

[angeleyes]

I apologize if i came off as trying to blast you, but that wasn't the case. As for what you just said, I can already see where your mind is at. You stereotype people based on their age and you may or may not know my age, but that's all fine and good. I was just telling you how I you made me feel and as far as running from me, you don't know me and I don't know you. So I am willing to hear any good advice that you are willing to give if you still want to and if not then I understand that as well.

[Brian Millar]

That's fine, I am sorry if I came off too strong with you as well.  My point of view I have discussed this on another thread is where I've seen so many of the people I grew up with getting married too young, they end up in divorce or in an unhappy marriage because you really define who you are and your priorities during your 20's.   This is because we as a society are changing, and the past generations tell us one ideal, one way of thinking, only to find in the real world, it doesn't work becaue the real world has changed.  If you look back at the middle ages, the age bracket for maturity was much lower then it is today, the same thing with life span, so I'm seeing a correlation between the two, even in the past century, if you looked at the age, say, in the 50's, people matured more quickly.  At the same time, what we deem acceptable by today's standards would be abhorent 50 years ago, which is why there are so many people with so many problems.

I remember 10 years ago I decided to start dating again, I have an endless series of horror stories I could share with you in that area.  So many of these women had so much baggage, I'm going, it's no wonder they are single.  At the same time, I simply cannot find common ground if show ever I'm dating thinks it's ok to have an endless string of relationships, it's about just the quality of the one that matters, the rest, they can continue playing the field, for me, no thank you, I have no desire to.  So you see, I'm looking at it in general, from an older person's point of view, having seen the end results and see the same mistakes being made by the next generations and when I can, I tell them where they are headed.  I can even back it up further and go biblical and talk about where Jesus discusses sin being in ones heart, that you are committing adultery when you are lusting after someone that is not your mate, but I won't go there because I don't know it apply's to you, but someone else may find that point valid in general.

These threads are good for teaching everybody, not just you, and I will generalize things to make a point for them to learn from, so please, don't take things so personally, I'm not against you, nor judging you, or him for that matter.

[angeleyes]

Thank you sharing these things with me and I appreciate hearing the wisdom of older people, especially from older Christians. You were right about how my generation does at times go from one relationship to the next and I am guilty of doing that at one point in my life. Most people say that I am very mature for my age. therefore I learned things about relationships in my late teens and early twenties. This was the time span when I wasn't quite together yet, which is why I want to hold out as long as I can to get married because I like many other do have some baggage, but I learn from my mistakes and i let the past pass.

Like the guy that I am dating right now, I do my best not to compare him with others and not to drag my past into our present relationship. He is a really good man and I know that I am a good woman, but sometimes we(meaning all people) don't trust and know ourselves and yes do try to run away from our past, but we must learn from it and grow and mature from it. Unfortunately a lot of people old and young are getting divorced and I believe that it is because they are not allowing God to be the center of their lives. The bible declares that when I was a child I spoke as a child, but when I became a man I put away childish things and that is what I have done and what I believe that all believers should be doing.

When you put God as #1 in your life u can't go wrong. This is why the bible says not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, for what fellowship has light with darkness and etc........ I honestly believe that the main reason why marriages fail is because Christians don't wait on God's approval on whom they should marry. They ask everyone under the sun's opinion excpet for God's and end up marrying the wrong person. If you can't be loyal and committed to God while you are single then chances are you won't be loyal and faithful to your spouse. What people fail to realize is that a relationship with god is more than just going to church on Sundays. It's about give and give and if you can have a healthy relationship with the Creator, then the rest will fall into suite and you will have healthy relationships with the creations.

[Brian Millar]

I agree with you.  I had a freind from Haiti, we discussed many things, there is a very clear difference in cultures they hold, what I'd do is learn more about it so that you can be prepared in the future when facing similar situations.  You should also look at the current society there in general, what the people hold dear to them and what they face in their daily lives.  It's a very different country and society over there compared to the states, you will learn more about him in this manner which should help with the relationship.

[janine]

Never blame some guy acting weird on his being from another culture.

If he is perceptive enough and intelligent enough to come here to make a life for himself, then he should be perceptive and intelligent enough to not get offended when you do something that fits in just fine with:

a) your culture, and
b) the very culture the both of you are living in here and now.

He chose to come here.  Let him adapt a little bit to that "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" thing that is going on here.  Or that used to go on... righteous people, here, attempt to pay back their debts.

That can be a hard pattern to overcome, when it comes time to think about what Jesus did for us -- but it's not a bad pattern to live by and can be perfectly Biblical if you apply it right. 

[Brian Millar]

Janine, this literal subject came up with me and him, that's why I explained it to her in that manner specifically, i'ts a quirk, but not a bad one IMHO, a more healthy point of view on his end, he's simply happy to help and giving him only the exact same in return takes away from what he really gets keeing it in the context as to what he's thinking and not saying anything from her directly or indirectly. Trying not to elaborate on it too much, I also agree that  you can't smply blame it all on culture as well big time!! You are awsome btw !!!

[angeleyes]

The more that I think about it, I don't think that it has anything to do withhis culture at all because I know others from his same culture and they have no problem with taking money from people.

[Brian Millar]

I gave a friend of mine some rc plane goodies, I had no use for them, they are so poor, they had no way of buying them themselves.  I was kind of mentoring them with the hobby and wanted them to be able to keep enjoying the hobby but knew they couldn't any more because they lacked the proper gear.

I shipped them out, it costed me a little to pay for the shipping element.  I make decent money, to me, not a big deal at all, the $6.00 it costed to ship meant absolutely nothing to me at all and I was very happy watching them have fun with the hobby due to my generosity, it's not like I would ever use the gear myself as well, so no big deal.  Well, the individual caught wind that I paid for it and felt guilty and paypaled me the money to cover it.  I of course sent it right back along with a snapshot of my paypal account, just to show them, I'm not lacking in the money department at all and that they could use the money themselves.  The person really was in a bad spot financially, so even 6.00 was a struggle.  I'd feel guilty to take the money, I already received my reward in simply being able to help another hobbiest with it.  It's the same scenereo it sounds like here.

My friend though, he was from a rather well off, educated family, that is not the norm there, so his perspective may be different then the ones you have known.  You can look at your home country and ask one question to different people from diferent walks of life living in different conditions.  They will give you different answers to the same question, all based upon who they are with the formentioned categories.

I'll take another example, I finally get through a long line at the store, upon checking out, I get hounded by the clerk to go to the back of the store to get something similar, or some other deal so that I could save a buck or two.  This dialog goes on for quite some time, my point of view, I am just here to purchase my wares and move on with my life, I have a business to run and this person is wasting my time, the amount of time lost chasing that buck is putting me behind schedule, yet to the clerk that makes very little, that's going to be there working ignorant of being productive, only there to get the time outof the way and take home their meager paycheck considers the buck to be relavent to them because their time is not worth a whole lot.  That if it was they who was standing in line, they'd welcome the savings since they are watching every single dime they spend because they are on a very tight budget.  So you see, two scenereo's, same situation, in my case, I'm insulted for  having my time wasted, with the other, just the opposite.

[janine]

Yes, I know, there could be many reasons for the guy reacting the way he did.

He could simply be a nut case.

[John 1:1]

With my 2 cents, I guess he feels cheapened, that putting such an emphasis on only $50.00 makes him feel like he's scrounging up every last buck and that's all he's about, that he lives on these meager little means and is a small person that needs to rely upon thinking and living that way, when in reality, it's very much beneath him.

If he raises the issue again, tell him you want it back and that you understand that you hurt his pride, putting him into the context that he's a poor man that really needs the money, that is not what you meant by it in the first place at all, you were being honorable and it's the principal of the matter that you honor replying the debt, not matter how small it is if that makes him feel better.

Janine, you can also be right, he could simply be nuts and his perspective has nothing to do with anything that was discussed earlier, it's hard to say, all we can do is work with the information given to us in the first place and only here, so it's simply logical deduction and speculation.

[janine]

Well... if the $50 is not a hardship for him, good for him.  He did her a disservice, though, by not allowing her to have the blessing she gets from paying back a debt.

[John 1:1]

I agree Janine,

That makes for a powerful argument here and should help open the gates of understanding so they can reconcile in a new light, hopefully laughing about the situation and talking more rather then simply reacting to get to the bottom of things before emotions take over. 

[angeleyes]

I finally found out the answer to this mind-blowing question that I had in my heart. I swh last night about it and it was a pride issue. He sees me giving him the money back as an insult to hiks manhood. So we discussed it and resolved the issue.

[janine]

Well, good.

I say he's got a puny little manhood if $50 can wipe it out...

[janine]

And you guys ain't known each other all that long.  It's not like you are "his" to provide for.

[Truefreedom]

First of praise God from whom all blessings flow and Howdy to all.

As some of you may know I have been dating this young man for a little over a month now. Everything was going smoothly until he loaned me money and I paid him back.

It all started a couple of weeks ago when I kindly asked him if I could borrow some money. I didn't ask for a certain amount, but told hikm that whatever he could give me would be helpful. So he gave me what I thought was a loan in the amount of $50.00.

So last Thursday I gave him a thank you card with $50.00 in the card thinking that he would like it and appreciate it, but then all of the sudden he stopped calling me for two days after I gave him the card.

He finally calls me on Sunday and explains to me that he felt that it was very disrespectful to give him money back and that he was really disappointed that I did this. 

So you could imagine how confused I became and I ended up apologizing to him for offending him(or may be his manhood).

I personally have never come across a man like this one before and am not used to this. Usually a man would be happy to know that the woman he is dating is not a gold-digger, but not in this case. Is this a man thing or is it a prideful thing? Please help me to figure this out because since then things haven't been the same between us.

Borrowing money is not a good practice, especially with someone you just met. If we are handling our finances wisely, we shouldn't have to borrow money.  I can understand his feelings.

[seekr]

Borrowing money is not a good practice, especially with someone you just met. If we are handling our finances wisely, we shouldn't have to borrow money.  I can understand his feelings.

That sounds a little harsh. If love is the law and it is, it is about helping those who are struggling. God puts us in different places and arrogance can come from even being ABLE to handle our finances wisely (sorry but I hate that). if you do not know everything about someone then that is an extremely judgmental statement. i wonder if people didn't like how Jesus handled his finances or Paul who went hungry and homeless and still was wise? Jesus said he came for the poor and the oppressed.

[janine]

Sometimes being a good steward of the money God has equipped you to earn may mean doing foolish things with it -- like giving it to a beggar or sending it to an orphanage or something.  Even when you don't really have it to spare.  There's more than just the black ink on the white page in God's budget.

But, yes, in general, it's not always a good thing to borrow or to lend money, especially dealing with people you have not known long.  You have to be willing to lose the friend over money matters, if you plan to borrow or lend with a friend.

[angeleyes]

Hey, what about the righteous showing mercy and lending and borrowing and repaying
Psalms 37:21

[janine]

Hey, what about the righteous showing mercy and lending and borrowing and repaying
Psalms 37:21

Sure, but none of those guidelines say anything about your friendship still being just the same after it's all over.

[seekr]

If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back.