Help! Did I make a mistake?

[Rainbows4me]

   I am confused and I need some advice!  I married in 2006, but we didn't move in together until 2007.  We didn't get a legal license, but made a "covenant with God" in front of an African pastor and his wife.  We have no certificate, or proof that we ever married.  My "husband" didn't want us to have a license, because he doesn't believe it is biblical.  I went along with it...but then got upset when my family was accusing me of sinning against God because I wasn't legally married.  I called the pastor that married us, and he said we were really "married".  I still don't know for sure if I am or not.

Why didn't I move in with him right away?  He had a bad temper and no job.  I told him, I would not let him move in with me, until he had a job and learned to control his temper.  Also, I had a son that I did not want him around.  My son could not stand this man.  My son moved out in July and my husband moved in in August. 

He is and has been verbally abusive to me on several occasions--please forgive me if this is inappropriate to put on the forum, but I want to be real--saying things like..."your a f--- peice of ---- meat." "Why don't you lose weight you f--- fat b----".   He screams and yells at me, dominating the conversation at times...attacking me with lists of things that are wrong with me.   He also has hit me and punched me.  But only a couple of times.

We met with our new pastor and his wife this past week and they laid down the law.  No yelling, no cussing, no name calling...no fighting.  They told me not to "mother" him anymore.  So I haven't...haven't done anything to be mothering.   Used to help him with everything.  He is looking for a job (out of work again as of Dec 15th)  and I usually would find things and apply for him...but I am not doing that anymore.  I am working now...and still doing most of the chores...like fixing all the food for us...although he helps some...like last night he actually went to the grocery store.  So far, the pastor's advice is working, and it has been more peaceful...

But I am STRUGGLING!  Our pastor told him that not providing for your family is worse than being an infidel...yet he is doing nothing to look for a job.  He sits in front of the TV and laptop all day.  What do I do?  I have no feelings for him right now.  Just disgust.  I want to say..."Get a job!"

I used to tell him all the time, "I think I made a mistake.  We shouldn't have married...and I want a divorce."  But the pastor and his wife, in this recent meeting, said I shouldn't say that anymore.  That the bottom line is, I am married.  And that God can help us have a great marriage. 

I am full of fear and doubt.  Before I married him, people told me not to...but I thought God told me to.  I thought God wanted me to love him...and God would use the love I showed him, to change him...like seeds being planted, that would eventually create a harvest.  That I would lay down my life for this man...but now...I am not so sure.

I DO NOT want to live like this!  He cannot get anywhere on time.  He is not dependable.  He has no initiative...unless it has to do with sports.  He says he loves the Lord...but, where's the fruit?

Right now, we have money in the bank.  His mother, who enables him ALL the time, sent him a check to pay off the car she co-signed with him and he put it in the bank instead, that is what we are living off for now.   My job is commission only...and I am not making much at it yet.  I have a house, that was mine when he moved in...I have lived here since '93 and I am worried we will lose it, unless one of us starts making some money.  I am tired!  I raised my son alone and never got child support...so thinking of supporting a husband really causes me to have a lot of anxiety. 

He isn't always bad...or mean...he does try to be nice...and he is loving, sometimes giving more than I do.l..but the irresponsibility is driving me crazy.

I hope this is ok, and not too long of a post!  I just need some encouragement, wisdom, discernment and prayer. 

Thank you!

[Mac]

Rainbows4me,


  First let me say that you are doing the right thing by getting counseling through your pastor...However, the issue of the legality of the marriage is iffy....I do not know where you are located, but it is possible that you would be considered common law husband and wife...The laws about that differ from state to state. But I can say with out a doubt, no license-no marriage....I am a bit concerned that a pastor said you are married, when it is not officially recognized...

The abuse side of things is cut and dry...If he abuses you, put him out...No ifs, ands or buts. He doesn't need to put his hands on you, ever...Do not try to minimize the issue of abuse by saying it has only "happened a few times"..That must stop...The mental abuse is just as bad and will take a toll on your emotional state if it continues....

You said that you thought your love would change him...Well, you are the next in a long line to figure out that the only thing you can change about a man is his diaper when he was a babe...Only Jesus Christ will change him, his life and your relationship...

You made an interesting statement-----Where is his fruit???Well, good point...God instructed us to be discerning about such things....If he shows bad fruit.....Well, good trees do not grow bad fruit...

Matthew 7; 16-18
16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

or

Matthew 12; 32-34
33"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.


The lord may be speaking to you already...I will pray for you...But most importantly, you need to pray for your relationship and seek wisdom....Hang in there....

[janine]

The matter of whether or not you are "legally" married, and whether or not you are "spiritually" married, and whether or not you are "Biblically" married, and whether or not you pastor or your church or any other human organization would recognize you as really bound in marriage --

All of that might take a while to study out.  You need to get in your Bible and stay in it.  You need to make sure you own a translation that you can really assimilate and understand.  If you were taught that only one translation was the real, true, acceptable translation -- that was a lie straight from Satan.

The only Word Who is true is Jesus, and the best Bible to read would be the original parchments or scrolls written down by the scribes who took an Apostle's dictation.

Since you can't get your hands on those -- let me know if you do, you'll be rich and famous! -- Since you can't get your hands on those, the absolute best translation for you will be the one that you will actually comfortably read and understand every single day.

Then after you get into that habit, you can use study tools, like dictionaries of the original languages, and like the contrasts between two or three other translations compared to your main one.  This, along with prayer and along with being in relationship with Jesus in the first place, will give you all the understanding you need "for life, and Godliness, in the knowledge of Him Who called us, for His own glory and goodness".

All of that needs to happen, before you can ever answer all the questions and put them, to bed regarding whether or not you are "married".

But, for right now, get your bee-hind out of that church and away from that crazy pastor who supposedly married you to an abusive creep.

And if there is abuse going on at all, the abuser needs to GO.

There, that's my advice.  It was free, so that may be all it's worth!  But you have at least 3 real problems to handle here, and all are vitally important.

[Rainbows4me]

Thanks for the advice about studying it out.  I read the Bible daily and will study it out.  I know that no one in the bible has a marriage license...and they were still married, and that a covenant with God, is more powerful than any laws of the land...but I also know that we are to obey the laws of the land...as long as they don't go against God's laws.

My husband believes this is what they do.  It is a contract between the state and the two of you...allowing the state to have rulership in your marriage.   Also, gays can get licenses now... so are 2 gay men more married, if they have a license than a male and female couple who has made a covenant with God--without a license?

Let me clarify.  Another pastor, besides the one that is counseling us now, married us.  I have not told the new pastor this yet. 

He has not hit me in a while...and with the new rules of no yelling, cussing...etc.  I don't think it will come to that.   I will promise you, that if it happens again, I will put him out.   I just feel bad about it, like I am the reason it usually happens.   He has not lost his temper either, since our meeting with the pastor...and I am not "mothering" him...so nothing should make him mad.

I just can't stand seeing someone be so irresponsible...unmotivated...slothful...and not feel bad about it.

Also, just so you know.  Other people told us, before we were married, that God WAS putting us together for marriage...people even prophecied that to us.

Thanks for your encouragement!!!

[Sherman Nobles]

Actually, in Jewish culture marriage was a legal coveanant with a legal document.  Dr. David Instone-Brewer goes so far as to say the biblical Jewish understanding of marriage is best understood like a legal contract.  There were specified expectations of both the man and the woman.  If either failed to consistently meet common marital obligations, like provision, divorce was an option, for the man anyhow; and even women could ask for a divorce, though such was the perogative of the men only. 

Are you married? Where do you live?  It's possible that you are legally married because of civil laws.  Apart from civil government overstepping it's reasonable boundaries, I believe that the Lord recognized the role of civil government over MDR.  Thus, if you're not legally married, you're not married, as a general rule.  It very much depends upon where you live.   Some good books:

Boundaries in Marriage
Divorce and Remarriage in the Bible
God Is A Divorce' Too!
Surviving an Affair

I pray that God will give you wisdom.

Blessings,
Sherman

[Rainbows4me]

Thank you for your comments...
We live in NC, and just searched online...here is a website that says what is legal and not legal:
http://www.montylaw.com/04_04_marriage.php

This is some of the comments from the website...

On a more fundamental level, marriage is also a legal contract governed by state law.
Marriage is governed by state law because of the long-held belief that the state has a strong public interest in promoting and protecting marriage and families. In that pursuit, state law defines not only what constitutes a valid legal marriage, but also the obligations and rights that arise from the marriage contract.  .... A religious ceremony can be performed by a person in any particular religious group who is authorized to solemnize marriages. A marriage, whether conducted in a religious or civil ceremony, must have two witnesses.

Whether you are having a civil or religious ceremony, you must obtain a marriage license from the register of deeds of the county in which the marriage is to take place.
Certain marriages between a man and woman licensed and solemnized according to the law or mode of solemnization of an Indian tribe or nation recognized by our federal or state government will be recognized as a valid legal marriage without a marriage license issued by a register of deeds.

After the marriage, the person performing the marriage is required to give the newlyweds a marriage certificate.

Common law marriages or marriages by consent that arise in our state are not recognized in North Carolina as valid legal marriages.

I am not sure what to do in light of this article...maybe tell my new pastor and his wife?
From this website, if we get married, legally, then I will be legally bound...and 1/2 of all that I own will become his.  I have a house that I have been making payments on for 15 years...and he will get half of it...if we don't make it?

[janine]

Oh boy, here comes more Opinion From Janine.  It may even make you grumpy with me.  Sorry, if so, but you deserve honest opinion.

Whether or not he gets half of what you own upon marriage depends upon how North Carolina law handles stuff like that, and upon what you have done regarding some sort of prenuptial agreement.  You need a lawyer to answer that one.

And it is not your fault if he hits you.

You may be the most aggravating creature ever.  You may be a real she-devil.  But -- if you do not take it to a physical level, and he does, that is still a line crossed.  Of course I would hope you were not going around provoking him.  But still, there is no place for either physical or mental abuse from either of you toward the other.

(Anyone who wants to jump up defending men in domestic abuse situations, please see and re-read the previous line.)

You can only get so much advice in an anonymous online setting, sugar.  Get you some good counsel from some good counselors.

And I don't care if three gay guys and a rhinocerous want to get married to a lesbian giraffe and a pig named Melvin -- that does not devalue the legal, state-based, paperwork side of a marriage.  All that legal government-produced paperwork ever was, was a contract.  Anything holy in a marriage comes from God and the two joining together within Him. 

If I am married, if I have a covenant, before God, with my man -- with no license from my state -- then, good, I am married, so far as I am concerned.

But -- if I want the legal protections the state can provide me -- if I want the civil status and the property and inheritance rights and so forth, that my state will provide me if I am married according to the state's license laws -- then I'd better get the heck over to the courthouse, get the paperwork, and haul my bee-hind to the Justice of the Peace, or any agreeable preacher (-- or my sister.  She "co-pastors" with her husband at a Foursquare church and can marry folks.  Anyone can, who obtains a license to do so from their state.)

I cannot get over that "husband" of yours not wanting to get a license because it allows the state/government to have some kind of power over you.  What kind of fruitcake is he?  (Yes, I said fruitcake.)  He reminds me of some White Supremacist Militia Nuts I know.

Does he also not pay his Federal and State income taxes?  Does he not purchase stuff at  the store with government-produced bills and coins?  Does he not have a bank account?  That's government-regulated.  Does he drive without a driver's license? Is he totally off the grid as far as paying into Social Security, having no Social Security number?

Does he own a home?  (I guess not, if you're worried about him getting half of yours...)

How does he plan to buy a home or land, or to own half of yours?  What paperwork proves ownership of the land a home stands on, if not from the government?  And does he not want to pay property taxes on his property, if that applies where he lives?  If it does apply, and he doesn't pay up, he will soon find out that he did not actually ever own the land anyway, but was renting it from the government -- because they sure as heck will evict him for non-payment of taxes.

Ooooh, don't get me wrong, I am certainly against big intrusive government.  So much so that I do things in my own life to make myself less dependent upon government.  But when I hear some "wanna-be" anti-government person like your man... eeeew.  Makes me want to shake him by the collar.  Unless he is also chasing after many other ways of freedom from the government's interference, if the only hobbyhorse he rides about government interference is when he talks about not marrying you legally -- why, that surely does make him sound like a wanna-be.  And an opportunist.

[janine]

And a cad.

[janine]

And as unbalanced as the round end of an egg.

[Rainbows4me]

 I really appreciate your frankness...and everyone's comments.  I know my husband is off kilter.  He was abused as a child by his father, a minister and bible teacher...he has some authority issues.

But just being able to put this out there and hear back from some other Christians...it is helping!

My head hurts...
This is a mess I am in!  A big one!  This is a small microcosm of what I live with....daily:

I just asked my husband if he wanted to seek God with me and he said..."Why do you wait until I am doing something else (watching sports on TV) to ask me a question like that?"  I didn't say anything...I just came in here and looked to see if anyone had written me back.  I started thinking about what he said...Today, I worked all day, we went and walked, came home and made dinner, watched American Idol...I took a shower and then asked him, " do you want to seek God with me?"  Because that was what I wanted to do...and I thought he might enjoy seeking Him with me.  There was no kindov evil intent or meniacal plot to disturb him during his "sacred" TV sports time.   But do you see what I mean?

As far as your comments, I shared them with my son and he was laughing.  I was on the phone with him when I opened my email.  He sooooo wants me to leave this man.    It breaks my heart to think what I have put my son through.  At times I feel like I must have temporarly gone insane.

Just so you know about me.  I had my son out of wedlock.  I raised him in the fear and love of the Lord.  When I got pregnant with him...I got RADICALLY saved.  I mean 180 degrees.  My family thought I was nuts...but now...they all love JESUS!!!  Haleluiah!  Praise God.

My son knows me...and knows how much I love Jesus.  He has seen my walk...for years.  My son has seen God use me to heal the sick...and do other miracles...BEFORE I met this man.  I used to stay in the presence of God--Pray all the time...walking in the gift of discernment.  I would pray for people and hear God singing songs over them...sing them to them and they would weep.  AND I was set apart for God.  I didn't play around with any sin.  I was celibate for 14 years...I couldn't even hardly watch a Disney movie...I had to pray through the whole thing...for the kids that were being decieved with all the witchcraft and stuff in them.   It literally greived the Holy Spirit in me.  I was serious about being a vessel that God could pour Himself through...and use for His Glory.  Because I LOVED Him and I LOVED seeing Him connect with people!  I had soooo much compassion for others.   It was beautiful!

Then I met this man.  And I feel like something inside of me has died. 

The man that married us, told me God had put us together for marriage and to be sent into the harvest field.  Then others, at a conf. came up to us, and told us that we would be married.  One lady even told me the months for engagement and the wedding.  Weird.  Then on the way home, we got a number. 129
So that started being a "sign" to us...So we married on Jan 29th.
Anyway...there is sooooo much, I could fill up this blog space with all the stories...
Good bad and ugly.

I thought I heard God tell me...this was His choice for me...that I was to marry him and love him.  That it would be hard.  That I would get no glory for it...but that God was going to use him mightly.   So I did.  I married him (or at least, I think I did)...but it is and has been hard!  A daily struggle.  Wondering...WHY GOD, DID YOU DO THIS TO ME!???  I waited, and I wanted your choice for me...and this is what I got.  It is confusing.  But I know God's ways are not my ways...and He specializes in the impossible...and He works all things to good...

During the time he and I were moving toward marriage...others came and said..."Get away from him...you deserve better."  "This is not God"  "you're co-dependant"  One man (a friend only) paid my way to a Benny Hinn crusade...and got me a seat on the 5th row.  He paid for my hotel and dinners...etc.  My husband (we weren't married yet), wasn't invited...but he came to Atlanta anyway and kept calling me...trying to get together with us.   This man was trying to get me to leave him.  To realize that God had a call on my life and that this man (that I am married to now) was getting in the way.  He even talked about helping me go to a special school for women who are called to ministry...and paying for it.   But I wouldn't listen.  So one day he said.  I have to show you now what you have to do.  And he left...saying he would never speak to me again.

Around that time...God was sending women to where I worked and having me pray for them and minister to them...prophecying to them.  They were all going through horrible things with their husbands.   And the words God was telling me to share with them...they were so beautiful.  Words of love and affirmation.  They had been so destroyed by these men that had abused them.  I felt like maybe God was doing that to show me what I was in for...to warn me and get me away from this man...but I was just so confused!!!!

Still am...in case you can't tell

Bottom line...I want to be doing the will of God.  I want to please HIM more than anything!!!!!!!!   I need the wisdom and discernment of God.  I do not want to hurt this man...but I also do not want to stay somewhere I am not supposed to be.   So, please pray, and if you think God wants you to share something with me...please do! 
Blessings in the Name of Jesus!