Organized Religion and the Gospel

[Robert Pate]

See my recent post, "Do You Believe the Gospel?"

How are we accepted in him.  Ephesians 1:6 says, To the praise of his glory of his grace, wherein he has MADE US acceptable in the beloved (Christ)

Paul said, "That I might be found IN HIM not having my own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ.  Philippians 3:9.

It is implied in Romans 5 & 6.

[Charles Sloan]

First of all it wasn't my list. There is no need to do any leg work. They have been discussed on this forum many times.

I don't think you are being open and honest with us on this forum. You hide what you really believe.

Richard,

I have been a member of this forum for years. Everyone here knows what I believe, I make my beliefs no secret to anyone. Go and read my past posts captain scarecrow, and show me an example of my dishonesty and how I have hidden my beliefs.

But if you would like to know what I believe, I believe the list is concealing antinomian doctrines, and utter depravity that rejects true repentance. But I noticed neither you or Robert has made any attempt to defend this creed with a single verse of Scripture, which I also believe is very telling.

[James Rondon]

I believe the list is concealing antinomian doctrines, and utter depravity that rejects true repentance.

Especially since there is absolutely no mention of sin in the list, which seems to be a very telling omission.

[RichardBurger]

First of all it wasn't my list. There is no need to do any leg work. They have been discussed on this forum many times.

I don't think you are being open and honest with us on this forum. You hide what you really believe.

Richard,

I have been a member of this forum for years. Everyone here knows what I believe, I make my beliefs no secret to anyone. Go and read my past posts captain scarecrow, and show me an example of my dishonesty and how I have hidden my beliefs.

But if you would like to know what I believe, I believe the list is concealing antinomian doctrines, and utter depravity that rejects true repentance. But I noticed neither you or Robert has made any attempt to defend this creed with a single verse of Scripture, which I also believe is very telling.

I haven't been on this forum for years, only for about 2 months. So, NO, I don't know you by all of your past posts. But I do know you have not given any opinion of the list. All you have done is railed against it as if most of it is untrue.

But the way, thanks for the name, "captain scarecrow." A scarecrow is used to drive off predators of the crops. I am driving off false ideas.

[Charles Sloan]

I haven't been on this forum for years, only for about 2 months. So, NO, I don't know you by all of your past posts. But I do know you have not given any opinion of the list. All you have done is railed against it as if most of it is untrue.

But the way, thanks for the name, "captain scarecrow." A scarecrow is used to drive off predators of the crops. I am driving off false ideas.

Yup, I do rail on your list because you fail to support it with Scripture. So I will treat it just like "The Watchtower" or "Awake!" or other things people have used inplace of Scripture. But I did give you my opinion on the list, go back and read.

But what false ideas are you really driving off here on your crusade for truth? Give me some examples.

[RichardBurger]

I haven't been on this forum for years, only for about 2 months. So, NO, I don't know you by all of your past posts. But I do know you have not given any opinion of the list. All you have done is railed against it as if most of it is untrue.

But the way, thanks for the name, "captain scarecrow." A scarecrow is used to drive off predators of the crops. I am driving off false ideas.

Yup, I do rail on your list because you fail to support it with Scripture. So I will treat it just like "The Watchtower" or "Awake!" or other things people have used inplace of Scripture. But I did give you my opinion on the list, go back and read.

But what false ideas are you really driving off here on your crusade for truth? Give me some examples.

As I said before, the list is NOT my list, Robert posted it.

Since you can't remember who wrote the list I doubt if you will remember anything I say. Why should I waste my time giving you examples? You didn't believe them when I posted them and you won't believe them if I said them a thousand times.

Man, aren't we having fun!!!!!

[Charles Sloan]

As I said before, the list is NOT my list, Robert posted it.

Since you can't remember who wrote the list I doubt if you will remember anything I say. Why should I waste my time giving you examples? You didn't believe them when I posted them and you won't believe them if I said them a thousand times.

Man, aren't we having fun!!!!!

Sorry, you just seem so avid to defend the list I thought you wouldn't mind being affiliated with it.

But humor me, show me some examples of this false doctrines you are defending the truth from. I am very interested to hear what these are, since the only real issue has been whether or not to go to church. Which you stood against at first only to admit in the end that you go to church, yeah that made alot of sense.

Please, I would love to see some examples.

[RichardBurger]

As I said before, the list is NOT my list, Robert posted it.

Since you can't remember who wrote the list I doubt if you will remember anything I say. Why should I waste my time giving you examples? You didn't believe them when I posted them and you won't believe them if I said them a thousand times.

Man, aren't we having fun!!!!!

Sorry, you just seem so avid to defend the list I thought you wouldn't mind being affiliated with it.

But humor me, show me some examples of this false doctrines you are defending the truth from. I am very interested to hear what these are, since the only real issue has been whether or not to go to church. Which you stood against at first only to admit in the end that you go to church, yeah that made alot of sense.

Please, I would love to see some examples.

And because I go to these Bible Study groups you have me championing the man ran organized physical church, which you know from my posts I do not support, right?

By the way, did I mention that one of these Bible Study groups meets in the homes of those in the class? Next month it is meeting at my house.

This is written to teach the truth about the church. But I am sure you will not agree. But there are others reading what is posted on this forum and this is for them.

Physical and Spiritual churches defined:

*****
church:
In the early centuries of Christianity, "church

[Harold]

I don't consider the building we meet in to be the church, but I do consider the people that meet there to be the Church.

FTL

[zoonance]

I don't consider the building we in to be the church, but I do consider the people that meet there to be the Church.

FTL

Thus richards basic inherent weakness in all of his posts.   He assumes that we don't recognize the difference or he doesn't?   He is arguing a point from a premise most of us don't even have.

[Robert Pate]

RichardBurger

I don't see organized religion as a church.  It is a business.  Most of the people going to the organized church are afraid to stop going and giving their money.  They think that God will not bless them if they stop going and giving their money.  TV preachers know how to extort money from their congregations.  I remember when Oral Roberts use to teach "Seed faith giving" If you sent in $100 you would get back $1000.  He should have been arrested. Preachers know how to keep the bucks coming in.  They do it with the law.

[zoonance]

RichardBurger

I don't see organized religion as a church.  It is a business.  Most of the people going to the organized church are afraid to stop going and giving their money.  They think that God will not bless them if they stop going and giving their money.  TV preachers know how to extort money from their congregations.  I remember when Oral Roberts use to teach "Seed faith giving" If you sent in $100 you would get back $1000.  He should have been arrested. Preachers know how to keep the bucks coming in.  They do it with the law.

Your ability to accurately reflect all of us (except your "group") is absolutely amazing.  You are brilliant in your analysis and astonishingly flawless in your observation.   Can I send you some money?

[Charles Sloan]

I don't consider the building we in to be the church, but I do consider the people that meet there to be the Church.

FTL

Thus richards basic inherent weakness in all of his posts.   He assumes that we don't recognize the difference or he doesn't?   He is arguing a point from a premise most of us don't even have.

That is called the strawman tactic, something Richard has perfected to an ugly artform.

[Robert Pate]

zoonance

Yes, send me some money.  If you don't God will get it some other way.  I guarantee that for every dollar you send, you will get two dollars back. Of course if you sin you may not get anything back. 

[Charles Sloan]

In care of: http://www.thefalseapostlesdoctrine.com/anothergospel/robthetruechurch.htm

[RichardBurger]

I don't consider the building we in to be the church, but I do consider the people that meet there to be the Church.

FTL

Thus richards basic inherent weakness in all of his posts.   He assumes that we don't recognize the difference or he doesn't?   He is arguing a point from a premise most of us don't even have.

That is called the strawman tactic, something Richard has perfected to an ugly artform.

And you say absolutely nothing about what I sent you. You asked for scriptures and I gave them to you. But obviously you would rather attack me than read and comment on what I wrote. Perhaps you are really not able to carry on an intelligent conversation about the ideas of others.  -- A gadfly comes to mind.

But you are not the only one on this forum and what I write I don't write to you. In fact, what I wrote should be on a separate topic.

[RichardBurger]

I don't consider the building we in to be the church, but I do consider the people that meet there to be the Church.

FTL

Thus richards basic inherent weakness in all of his posts.   He assumes that we don't recognize the difference or he doesn't?   He is arguing a point from a premise most of us don't even have.

Really??? I didn't know I was ARGUING with anyone. I just posted what I believe.

[Charles Sloan]

And you say absolutely nothing about what I sent you. You asked for scriptures and I gave them to you. But obviously you would rather attack me than read and comment on what I wrote. Perhaps you are really not able to carry on an intelligent conversation about the ideas of others.  -- A gadfly comes to mind.

But you are not the only one on this forum and what I write I don't write to you. In fact, what I wrote should be on a separate topic.

The Scriptures you gave have nothing to do with the 7 point list I asked you to support. But I did intend to comment on your diversion, but that will take some time to do and I'm at work right now, so forgive me if you don't rank in my highest priority at the moment. But you don't need to insult me to try and prove your intellectual prowess, I think your propaganda tactics demonstrate that quite enough...

[zoonance]

zoonance

Yes, send me some money.  If you don't God will get it some other way.  I guarantee that for every dollar you send, you will get two dollars back. Of course if you sin you may not get anything back. 

some church in Tulsa sent me a paper prayer rug promising results.  It had a picture of Jesus on it that if you stared at it long enough, you can see his eyes looking back at you.  (like those scribbly pictures you stare at and see a 3D picture.  Anybody else get one of these mass mailings?

[zoonance]

I don't consider the building we in to be the church, but I do consider the people that meet there to be the Church.

FTL

Thus richards basic inherent weakness in all of his posts.   He assumes that we don't recognize the difference or he doesn't?   He is arguing a point from a premise most of us don't even have.

Really??? I didn't know I was ARGUING with anyone. I just posted what I believe.

for what purpose?    Ok you were APOLOGIZING a point...

[Robert Pate]

zoonance

I got some holy water a while back, It was in a sealed plastic envelope. They said it came from a spring outside of Jerusalem that Jesus might have drank from. I think that it was tap water from NY. (yuk!)

[Harold]

zoonance

I got some holy water a while back, It was in a sealed plastic envelope. They said it came from a spring outside of Jerusalem that Jesus might have drank from. I think that it was tap water from NY. (yuk!)

Hey Robert I am waiting on you to elaborate on your seven point salvation plan.

For The Lord

[Robert Pate]

Harold

See my recent post "Do You Believe the Gospel?" I came up with it just for you and Charles.

[Charles Sloan]

Harold

See my recent post "Do You Believe the Gospel?" I came up with it just for you and Charles.

And I made a response just for you.

[Robert Pate]

I don't think Paul could have made it today as a preacher of the gospel.

1st Corinthians 9:18  "What is my reward then?  Verily that, when I preach the gospel,  I make the gospel of Christ WITHOUT CHARGE, that I abuse not my power in the gospel."

I don't think that Paul took up an offering for preaching the gospel.  Paul said that it is an abuse to take money for preaching the gospel.

Why don't you all show this scripture to your pastors and see whether their ears turn red or pink.

[Charles Sloan]

Robert, you should get a whole Bible.

[Robert Pate]

Charles Sloan

Everytime some one shines light in your face you retaliate with a smart remark.

[Charles Sloan]

Charles Sloan

Everytime some one shines light in your face you retaliate with a smart remark.

You aren't shining anything. All you are doing is divorcing passages from the whole of Scripture to justify your pet doctrines. These practices might help boost your book sales, but it does nothing for me.

[Robert Pate]

Charles Sloan

The scripture speaks for its self.  You just don't like what it says, so you attack the messenger.

[James Rondon]

I don't think Paul could have made it today as a preacher of the gospel.

1st Corinthians 9:18  "What is my reward then?  Verily that, when I preach the gospel,  I make the gospel of Christ WITHOUT CHARGE, that I abuse not my power in the gospel."

I don't think that Paul took up an offering for preaching the gospel.  Paul said that it is an abuse to take money for preaching the gospel.

Why don't you all show this scripture to your pastors and see whether their ears turn red or pink.

Probably because it is taken out of context. Go back to the same chapter, and start reading this time from at least verse 7. Be careful, however, it may make your ears turn red or pink...

[Charles Sloan]

Charles Sloan

The scripture speaks for its self.  You just don't like what it says, so you attack the messenger.

Why wouldn't I like what it says Robert, I am not a pastor nor do I get paid from the Church. Neither does my pastor accept a salary even if we could afford one. So I do even remotely see how your post relates to me personally. But since the Scripture speaks for itself and people like pastors shouldn't get paid for teaching, why are you selling your book? Shouldn't you make the gospel of Christ available WITHOUT CHARGE?

[Robert Pate]

Charles Sloan

By the time I pay for all of the cost on the books I go in the hole every time I sell one.

[Charles Sloan]

Sounds to me like you aren't following the apostlesdoctrine.

[Bonnie]

I am left with not knowing what to believe after reading this entire thread of posts.
Do most of the people here believe that Paul advocates a sinful lifestyle? No one ever explains Romans 7. What does it mean to you?
I'm not saying that we can live a sinless life while being in the flesh but I do believe that we are to strive to.
dayspring08

[Robert Pate]

dayspring8

What is so wonderful about the gospel is that you can remain a sinner and still be saved.  Simply because this salvation that God has provided for us is completely outside of us.  It is a past historical event.  It is not based upon your performance but is based upon Christ performance.

Paul lived his life before the Lord as a sinner, he struggled with sin just like we do, as you can see in Romans 7.  It is the Holy Spirit working in our lives that convicts us of sin.  The gospel calls for Holy living and repentance which the Spirit is constantly working in our life.