Kitchens

[Charles Sloan]

Didn't Priscilla and Aquila have a church in their house? (Romans 16:3-5)

Wouldn't they have had a kitchen area in their house?

Now Charles, don't go using any deductions!

Well now lets get that E, N and I right outta CENI...

[HRoberson]

Didn't Priscilla and Aquila have a church in their house? (Romans 16:3-5)

Wouldn't they have had a kitchen area in their house?

Now Charles, don't go using any deductions!

Well now lets get that E, N and I right outta CENI...

[DCR]

Because kitchens are not authorized, we can necessarily infer that Aquila and Priscilla did not have a kitchen in their house, if they hosted worship services there.

That's courtesy of the CENICR hermeneutic (commands, examples, necessary inferences, and circular reasoning). 

[stevehut]

Wouldn't they have had a kitchen area in their house?

No, they ate at Shecky's Deli, down the street.  Killer pastrami.

[stevehut]

Now Charles, don't go using any deductions!

They can write it off on their taxes?   

[stevehut]

That's courtesy of the CENICR hermeneutic

I oughta start up threads more often.

[marc]

Once Aquila and Priscilla moved the couch and chairs out of their living room and installed pews, a podium, and a communion table, they were forced to remove the now-unauthorized kitchen.

You should have seen the building where the Ethiopian Eunuch worshipped, though.

[blituri]

I have heard that if you shake a twig over the head of a rattlesnake he will go into a writhing fit.
Mockery is NOT a good sign.

[Charles Sloan]

I have heard that if you shake a twig over the head of a rattlesnake he will go into a writhing fit.

I don't suggest you try it to see if its true.

[blituri]

My bushhog is safer!

[blituri]

Again, the issue is not kitchens, but do I have the authority to intimidate you to give me money which I then give away to my favorite institution.  History has shown that "investing" in jointly-held kitchens is more dangerous than Wall Streed.  The same people who need a kitchen to make their institute grow and the cash flow will be the same people guided beyond the sacred page to "infiltrate and divert your Safe House into a 'theater for holy entertainment'."

I suspect that in any non-institutional church if YOU own a kitchen and YOU invite everyone over to a potluck then YOU will still be in FELLERSHIP.

It is by no means certain that they had a kitchen in their rented house: they probably spent lots of time in the marketplace (where you find people to teach) and much if not most food was prepared by the public kitchens (public baths etc).  That is the POINT in Romans 14 where disciples would get upset over others eating their meat where the pagan "churches" dedicated the sacrifices but ate and sold the meat THEMSELVES.

Hos 8:4 They have set up kings, but not by me: [ceni]
       they have made princes, and I knew it not: [ceni]
       of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off.

I wrote for them the many things of my law, but they regarded them as something alien. Hosea 8:12

They offer sacrifices given to me and they eat the meat, but the LORD is not pleased with them.
      Now he will remember their wickedness and punish their sins: They will return to Egypt. Hosea 8:13

Hos 8:14 For Israel hath forgotten his Maker,
       and buildeth temples; and
      Judah hath multiplied fenced cities: but I will send a fire upon his cities,
      and it shall devour the palaces thereof.

    Quasten notes that "It was the same with regard to music at the meal of the dead. [Amos]
    When at the end of the meal the funeral guests would resort to their own pleasures,
    to playing and dancing, it was because music was originally
    supposed to have offered comfort to the dead."

If you use the Law of Giving (meaning legalistic) to extort money to build a kitchen to suck in the seekers RATHER than GO OUT as directly commanded, then it seems to me that God has a message for you. While I don't get upset over expensive kitchens in which things are rarely cooked, IF you make a profession out of spreading hate against those who insist that you don't take the LORD'S MONEY to feed your own face I pity you.

Why do you crown the gravestone there and anoint it? Others also erect a funeral pile before the grave, dig a hole and burn these costly means and seem to pour out wine and a mixture of honey into the hole.

    Hermes replies:

    I do not know, ferryman, how this benefits the one who is in Hades. Nonetheless, they are convinced that the smoke and incense swirl about the souls that are below and that as many as possible of them eat of it and drink the mixture of honey from out of the hole.. Charon 22, 219 (See Homer's Hymn to Hermes)

[notofmyown]

Having grown up in churches that teach this I can give you a deeper perspective on this, There is a mindset that floats down this river firstly, you are not to do things that "please" yourself ok......Kitchens are for pleasing yourself or indulgence and therefore have no place in God's house....which leads to another deep seated mindset the idea that the meeting building is somehow sanctified....we were not allowed to eat or drink in the building (it didn't matter whether or not it had a kitchen).....that is except for moms giving their kids treats which was fround on as well.  Perhaps it goes back to the Puritanism......those that do have kitchens are liberal and have turned away from he guide of the scriptures and are subject to sure hellfire........I love my brethren in that movement but they need some Grace :)

[Nevertheless]

I think I'll go to my liberal church now for a liberal serving of baked potatoes and salad, prepared in our liberally furnished kitchen! [Not just one stove, but two!]

As far as I know, the Ind. Christian Churches have never had a problem with kitchens. In fact, if this discussion was brought up to most of them they'd probably give you a puzzled look and say something like, "You're kidding!" or "Hunh??"

Food plays a large part in many of our gatherings. One Wed. night not too long ago I sat listening to the pleasant roar of the dinner conversations going on all around me and thought, "This is why so many people go to coffee shops and bars." We need each other. Sharing food and drink bonds us in a way that doesn't happen without it. I'm not sure why, but it just works that way.

[DCR]

NTL,

The way you describe in your church experience is also mine in every CofC I've ever been a part of.  In fact, that's a joke we sometimes say that whenever Church of Christ people get together, we eat.  

Apparently not all CofC people are like this (as in NOMO's case)... though the "non-Kitchen" sentiment is a minority view in CofCs, as far as I can tell.

[stevehut]

Again, the issue is not kitchens, but do I have the authority to intimidate you to give me money which I then give away to my favorite institution.  History has shown that "investing" in jointly-held kitchens is more dangerous than Wall Streed.  The same people who need a kitchen to make their institute grow and the cash flow will be the same people guided beyond the sacred page to "infiltrate and divert your Safe House into a 'theater for holy entertainment'."

I suspect that in any non-institutional church if YOU own a kitchen and YOU invite everyone over to a potluck then YOU will still be in FELLERSHIP.

I don't understand a word of this, blituri.   

[notofmyown]

I think I'll go to my liberal church now for a liberal serving of baked potatoes and salad, prepared in our liberally furnished kitchen! [Not just one stove, but two!]

As far as I know, the Ind. Christian Churches have never had a problem with kitchens. In fact, if this discussion was brought up to most of them they'd probably give you a puzzled look and say something like, "You're kidding!" or "Hunh??"

Food plays a large part in many of our gatherings. One Wed. night not too long ago I sat listening to the pleasant roar of the dinner conversations going on all around me and thought, "This is why so many people go to coffee shops and bars." We need each other. Sharing food and drink bonds us in a way that doesn't happen without it. I'm not sure why, but it just works that way.

thats where I am a "member" now...the independent christian church.

[stevehut]

"This is why so many people go to coffee shops and bars." We need each other. Sharing food and drink bonds us in a way that doesn't happen without it.

Excellent point!   Making me hungry now. 

[Jimbob]

Food plays a large part in many of our gatherings. One Wed. night not too long ago I sat listening to the pleasant roar of the dinner conversations going on all around me and thought, "This is why so many people go to coffee shops and bars." We need each other. Sharing food and drink bonds us in a way that doesn't happen without it. I'm not sure why, but it just works that way.

Reminds me of The Gospel According to Starbucks by Leonard Sweet.

[Imabear]

Again, the issue is not kitchens, but do I have the authority to intimidate you to give me money which I then give away to my favorite institution.  History has shown that "investing" in jointly-held kitchens is more dangerous than Wall Streed.  The same people who need a kitchen to make their institute grow and the cash flow will be the same people guided beyond the sacred page to "infiltrate and divert your Safe House into a 'theater for holy entertainment'."

I suspect that in any non-institutional church if YOU own a kitchen and YOU invite everyone over to a potluck then YOU will still be in FELLERSHIP.

I don't understand a word of this, blituri.   

Unfortunately I think I do. 
If your church invests in a kitchen to attract people... for financial gain, Then you might be among the same misguided group that thinks that entertainment  (instrumental music) has a place in church.  His last line loses me though.

[stevehut]

If your church invests in a kitchen to attract people... for financial gain

  And my church can't scam money from people without a stove and a pantry? 

[Johnb]

Steve said
Greetings, all:

Someone in here told me recently that COC congregations sometimes split over various issues, including a fight over whether it is sinful to have a kitchen in the building.

I find this fascinating,   and at the same time very petty. 

What could the reason possibly be?  Do you agree?

Actually Steve it is kind of humorous (if not so serious)  The same group that insisted that the church is the people not a building went to I Cor 11 and the statement "have you not houses to eat in?"  They used this to condemn having a kitchen in the church.  G  Brewer at the height of this controversy had someone tell him a certain congregation had a kitchen in the church.  He ask who baptized it? 

I once preached at a congregation in AR where they built an educationcenter/fellowship hall.  It was separated from the "church building" bu a walk way.  That way they satisfied those who thought it was wrong to eat in the church building.   

[stevehut]

"have you not houses to eat in?"  They used this to condemn having a kitchen in the church. 

So did this cause them to discontinue the practice of observing the Eucharist?     The bread and wine (juice) need to be prepared somewhere, no?

[HRoberson]

"have you not houses to eat in?"  They used this to condemn having a kitchen in the church. 

So did this cause them to discontinue the practice of observing the Eucharist?     The bread and wine (juice) need to be prepared somewhere, no?

No; now it's delivered.

[Johnb]

Oh no! That is partaking of the Lord's supper not eating in the church.  

You have to have lived through the divisions to really understand the legalism of some in the CoC.  There was also a split over congregations supporting orphan homes.  They referred to themselves as non institutional churches the slang was anti cooperation churches,  They believe that the only way we can support the orphan children is to take them into our individual home. ( They normally did not pratice this in great numbers but that was the belief)  Then there was the anti located preacher split, the premillinal split and on and on.  In the 50s some even went to court over which group should get the church building.  Of course they all believe they are the one true church.  Just a little of our stellar history.  

[stevehut]

1-

2- They believe that the only way we can support the orphan children is to take them into our individual home. ( They normally did not pratice this in great numbers but that was the belief)  

1- Hey, does your preacher know yer doing that?   

2- Gee, how convenient.