Why Won't Obama Release His Birth Certificate?

[ElijahRev113]

I'm very sorry, but isn't this Lawyer who tired to bring the suit
an ardent Clinton supporter, and isn't he one of the 911 conspiracy
crowd who also brought a lawsuit against Bush for 911
http://www.public-action.com/911/suit.html

Consider the sources you unwisely link your own credibility to Admin.
If you buy into this type of person's stories, your won threads will be
disregarded as rubbish too.

Oh, and Jerome Corsi does not add substance to any case seeking to
be thought credible.

[Mere Nick]

Elijah,

Obama could settle it by producing the required documents. 

[admin]

I'm very sorry, but isn't this Lawyer who tired to bring the suit
an ardent Clinton supporter, and isn't he one of the 911 conspiracy
crowd who also brought a lawsuit against Bush for 911
http://www.public-action.com/911/suit.html

Consider the sources you unwisely link your own credibility to Admin.
If you buy into this type of person's stories, your won threads will be
disregarded as rubbish too.

Oh, and Jerome Corsi does not add substance to any case seeking to
be thought credible.

Elijah, as I and others have said, I don't purposefully buy into conspiracy theories and smear attempts. What gives this legs is that Obama doesn't want to provide those documents to the judge. All he has to do is give him his birth certificate. Yet he objects. Secondly, how do you know and Obama supporters know this is untrue? As stated in the video, this guy checked out McCain as well and McCain gave all the records asked of him for legal review.

If Obama has nothing to hide, he'd simply give his birth certificate to the judge. It's disturbing that he hasn't and should be to you as well. Unless Democrats, for the sake of electing one of their own, want to violate our national laws and potentially elect a man who is not only ineligible but also unethical for knowing it and trying to trick the system.

Just produce your birth certificate to the judge Barack. McCain did.

[kmv]

I'm very sorry, but isn't this Lawyer who tired to bring the suit
an ardent Clinton supporter, and isn't he one of the 911 conspiracy
crowd who also brought a lawsuit against Bush for 911
http://www.public-action.com/911/suit.html

Consider the sources you unwisely link your own credibility to Admin.
If you buy into this type of person's stories, your won threads will be
disregarded as rubbish too.

Oh, and Jerome Corsi does not add substance to any case seeking to
be thought credible.

Elijah, as I and others have said, I don't purposefully buy into conspiracy theories and smear attempts. What gives this legs is that Obama doesn't want to provide those documents to the judge. All he has to do is give him his birth certificate. Yet he objects. Secondly, how do you know and Obama supporters know this is untrue? As stated in the video, this guy checked out McCain as well and McCain gave all the records asked of him for legal review.

If Obama has nothing to hide, he'd simply give his birth certificate to the judge. It's disturbing that he hasn't and should be to you as well. Unless Democrats, for the sake of electing one of their own, want to violate our national laws and potentially elect a man who is not only ineligible but also unethical for knowing it and trying to trick the system.

Just produce your birth certificate to the judge Barack. McCain did.

Do you have any link to an actual court order, or a legitimate report of a judge's ruling?

All I can find is an exhibit apparently filed by the plaintiff - a 'suggested' court order, if you will.

Can you prove that this judge's order actually exists?

[Bon Voyage]

I'm very sorry, but isn't this Lawyer who tired to bring the suit
an ardent Clinton supporter, and isn't he one of the 911 conspiracy
crowd who also brought a lawsuit against Bush for 911
http://www.public-action.com/911/suit.html

Consider the sources you unwisely link your own credibility to Admin.
If you buy into this type of person's stories, your won threads will be
disregarded as rubbish too.

Oh, and Jerome Corsi does not add substance to any case seeking to
be thought credible.

Elijah, as I and others have said, I don't purposefully buy into conspiracy theories and smear attempts. What gives this legs is that Obama doesn't want to provide those documents to the judge. All he has to do is give him his birth certificate. Yet he objects. Secondly, how do you know and Obama supporters know this is untrue? As stated in the video, this guy checked out McCain as well and McCain gave all the records asked of him for legal review.

If Obama has nothing to hide, he'd simply give his birth certificate to the judge. It's disturbing that he hasn't and should be to you as well. Unless Democrats, for the sake of electing one of their own, want to violate our national laws and potentially elect a man who is not only ineligible but also unethical for knowing it and trying to trick the system.

Just produce your birth certificate to the judge Barack. McCain did.

Do you have any link to an actual court order, or a legitimate report of a judge's ruling?

All I can find is an exhibit apparently filed by the plaintiff - a 'suggested' court order, if you will.

Can you prove that this judge's order actually exists?

I don't believe there is an order of a judge, but that the suit wants said documents to be given to the judge.

[kmv]

I'm very sorry, but isn't this Lawyer who tired to bring the suit
an ardent Clinton supporter, and isn't he one of the 911 conspiracy
crowd who also brought a lawsuit against Bush for 911
http://www.public-action.com/911/suit.html

Consider the sources you unwisely link your own credibility to Admin.
If you buy into this type of person's stories, your won threads will be
disregarded as rubbish too.

Oh, and Jerome Corsi does not add substance to any case seeking to
be thought credible.

Elijah, as I and others have said, I don't purposefully buy into conspiracy theories and smear attempts. What gives this legs is that Obama doesn't want to provide those documents to the judge. All he has to do is give him his birth certificate. Yet he objects. Secondly, how do you know and Obama supporters know this is untrue? As stated in the video, this guy checked out McCain as well and McCain gave all the records asked of him for legal review.

If Obama has nothing to hide, he'd simply give his birth certificate to the judge. It's disturbing that he hasn't and should be to you as well. Unless Democrats, for the sake of electing one of their own, want to violate our national laws and potentially elect a man who is not only ineligible but also unethical for knowing it and trying to trick the system.

Just produce your birth certificate to the judge Barack. McCain did.

Do you have any link to an actual court order, or a legitimate report of a judge's ruling?

All I can find is an exhibit apparently filed by the plaintiff - a 'suggested' court order, if you will.

Can you prove that this judge's order actually exists?

I don't believe there is an order of a judge, but that the suit wants said documents to be given to the judge.

Then the whole discussion is pointless and the implication that Obama has something to hide is less than honest, isn't it?

[OneTruth]

Can we put this to bed... and then focus on real facts that really matter...





These birth announcements come straight from the State Records.  The Hillary Clinton camp already tried to dig this dirt up to disqualify him, and don't you know that if there was any truth to this Hillary would have capitalized on it!  I mean, who has the most at stake here -- she did and does!  And I am sure with all the resources that the Clinton's have at their ready, if there was any merit at all to it, Hillary's team would have played that card a long time ago.

Let us sell the true story of John McCain and forget about the dirt of Barack Obama. 

[Mere Nick]

Thanks OneTruth.  If this is the real deal, then it seems settled.  As for selling the true story of John McCain, all I can say for him is that he isn't Barack Obama.  Maybe you saw the thread where I asked those here who voted in the Republican primaries voted for McCain.  I didn't and don't know anyone who did.

[Bon Voyage]

I'm very sorry, but isn't this Lawyer who tired to bring the suit
an ardent Clinton supporter, and isn't he one of the 911 conspiracy
crowd who also brought a lawsuit against Bush for 911
http://www.public-action.com/911/suit.html

Consider the sources you unwisely link your own credibility to Admin.
If you buy into this type of person's stories, your won threads will be
disregarded as rubbish too.

Oh, and Jerome Corsi does not add substance to any case seeking to
be thought credible.

Elijah, as I and others have said, I don't purposefully buy into conspiracy theories and smear attempts. What gives this legs is that Obama doesn't want to provide those documents to the judge. All he has to do is give him his birth certificate. Yet he objects. Secondly, how do you know and Obama supporters know this is untrue? As stated in the video, this guy checked out McCain as well and McCain gave all the records asked of him for legal review.

If Obama has nothing to hide, he'd simply give his birth certificate to the judge. It's disturbing that he hasn't and should be to you as well. Unless Democrats, for the sake of electing one of their own, want to violate our national laws and potentially elect a man who is not only ineligible but also unethical for knowing it and trying to trick the system.

Just produce your birth certificate to the judge Barack. McCain did.

Do you have any link to an actual court order, or a legitimate report of a judge's ruling?

All I can find is an exhibit apparently filed by the plaintiff - a 'suggested' court order, if you will.

Can you prove that this judge's order actually exists?

I don't believe there is an order of a judge, but that the suit wants said documents to be given to the judge.

Then the whole discussion is pointless and the implication that Obama has something to hide is less than honest, isn't it?

If the Democrat who filed suit honestly believes Obama has something to hide, it doesn't make it less than honest.  If the judge was provided those documents and ruled against the Democrat who filed, it would make said Democrat wrong.

[kmv]

I'm very sorry, but isn't this Lawyer who tired to bring the suit
an ardent Clinton supporter, and isn't he one of the 911 conspiracy
crowd who also brought a lawsuit against Bush for 911
http://www.public-action.com/911/suit.html

Consider the sources you unwisely link your own credibility to Admin.
If you buy into this type of person's stories, your won threads will be
disregarded as rubbish too.

Oh, and Jerome Corsi does not add substance to any case seeking to
be thought credible.

Elijah, as I and others have said, I don't purposefully buy into conspiracy theories and smear attempts. What gives this legs is that Obama doesn't want to provide those documents to the judge. All he has to do is give him his birth certificate. Yet he objects. Secondly, how do you know and Obama supporters know this is untrue? As stated in the video, this guy checked out McCain as well and McCain gave all the records asked of him for legal review.

If Obama has nothing to hide, he'd simply give his birth certificate to the judge. It's disturbing that he hasn't and should be to you as well. Unless Democrats, for the sake of electing one of their own, want to violate our national laws and potentially elect a man who is not only ineligible but also unethical for knowing it and trying to trick the system.

Just produce your birth certificate to the judge Barack. McCain did.

Do you have any link to an actual court order, or a legitimate report of a judge's ruling?

All I can find is an exhibit apparently filed by the plaintiff - a 'suggested' court order, if you will.

Can you prove that this judge's order actually exists?

I don't believe there is an order of a judge, but that the suit wants said documents to be given to the judge.

Then the whole discussion is pointless and the implication that Obama has something to hide is less than honest, isn't it?

If the Democrat who filed suit honestly believes Obama has something to hide, it doesn't make it less than honest.  If the judge was provided those documents and ruled against the Democrat who filed, it would make said Democrat wrong.

It is less than honest to give the impression that Obama has refused to release documents when no judge has asked for them.

[admin]

Well again, that's an easily forged document. It would be very simple for me to make it look like I was born in Hawaii in 1961 as well with a basic scanner and photo-shop type software. Some graphic on a computer doesn't tell us anything.

The bottom line is, why won't Obama give it to the judge as John McCain did immediately upon being asked?

You can keep up with the suit at http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/. As of right now, The DNC and Obama have filed a motion to delay discovery until after the defendant's (Barack Obama and the DNC) motion to dismiss is decided. So again, this just digs Obama in deeper. Why won't he allow the judge to take a look at the birth certificate (discovery) if Obama has one proving his natural-born citizenship? If there's no problem, why won't he give him the certificate?!

And by the way, I first heard about this when he was running against Hillary. I thought it was bunk and I'm betting that Hillary and Co. figured Obama would tie it up in court and she would just look desperate or something. This guy doesn't care what he looks like, he just wants Obama to provide the dang piece of paper. He requested that of McCain and Obama and McCain wasted no time giving all the documents to prove his citizenship. But not Obama. What does he have to hide?

I can derive from his absolute refusal to show the certificate that he is not a natural citizen. What other reason can there be? This could be one of the most historic events in American history.

If you want to keep up with the case also see http://www.obamacrimes.com

[admin]

KMV said

It is less than honest to give the impression that Obama has refused to release documents when no judge has asked for them.

Not true. See http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/

The judge asked and Obama filed a motion to delay discovery (on October 6) until after defendants motion to dismiss is decided.

Plus, the Democrat who is suing Obama also investigated McCain. McCain complied immediately and was 100 percent forthcoming. But apparently Obama has something to hide. I would also think in this amount of time that he could have someone working on forgeries. But not one person has given me a good reason why Obama would not simply present the documents necessary if he's really a natural-born citizen. McCain did. And it would save Barack time, money and dismiss this issue. What is he hiding?

[kmv]

KMV said

It is less than honest to give the impression that Obama has refused to release documents when no judge has asked for them.

Not true. See http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/

The judge asked and Obama filed a motion to delay discovery (on October 6) until after defendants motion to dismiss is decided.

Plus, the Democrat who is suing Obama also investigated McCain. McCain complied immediately and was 100 percent forthcoming. But apparently Obama has something to hide. I would also think in this amount of time that he could have someone working on forgeries. But not one person has given me a good reason why Obama would not simply present the documents necessary if he's really a natural-born citizen. McCain did. And it would save Barack time, money and dismiss this issue. What is he hiding?

I'm not clear on this.  Which of the linked documents is the judge's order, or request, for the birth certificate?

If you're going to say the final document, I don't think so.  It appears to be just a form filed by the loon plaintiff 'recommending' that the judge rule that way. 

The document isn't dated, and it isn't signed.  I know zip about the law, but I would sure expect that a legitimate court order, or judge's request, would have, you know - a date or something.  Also, a signature.

As to why Obama doesn't answer every random loon who demands paperwork from him?  How about this - I demand that you send me copies of your tax return.  After all, it would save you time and money and dismiss the issue, right?

This is a non starter, and unworthy of legitimization by reasonable thinkers.

[admin]

KMV,

I was referring to the link to the Federal District Court Filings & Dockets at http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/

There you'll see the chain of events. As to the "every random loon" question, how many of those loons are lawyers who happen to be lifetime Democrats and a former Attorney General of the state of Pennsylvania? The DNC has even gotten involved in this. You act like this is just someone emailing Obama requesting the information.

Obama and the DNC have filed motions to dismiss and then a motion to delay discovery. Your implication that this is just some "loon" is dishonest. If it were just some loon the DNC would not have stepped in. This is one of the DNC's own folks! I think you'd better take this seriously or else you might feel pretty silly in the near future.

Since you consider yourself an honest person though, why not allow yourself to be unbiased and nonpartisan for a few minutes and read what the former attorney general of Pennsylvania is presenting as the plantiff to the judge. He's a Democrat like you, so we all know he's honest: http://obamacrimes.com/index.php/component/content/article/1-main/28-phil-j-berg-files-amended-complaint-in-berg-v-obama

[kmv]

KMV,

I was referring to the link to the Federal District Court Filings & Dockets at http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/

There you'll see the chain of events. As to the "every random loon" question, how many of those loons are lawyers who happen to be lifetime Democrats and a former Attorney General of the state of Pennsylvania? The DNC has even gotten involved in this. You act like this is just someone emailing Obama requesting the information.

Obama and the DNC have filed motions to dismiss and then a motion to delay discovery. Your implication that this is just some "loon" is dishonest. If it were just some loon the DNC would not have stepped in. This is one of the DNC's own folks! I think you'd better take this seriously or else you might feel pretty silly in the near future.

Since you consider yourself an honest person though, why not allow yourself to be unbiased and nonpartisan for a few minutes and read what the former attorney general of Pennsylvania is presenting as the plantiff to the judge. He's a Democrat like you, so we all know he's honest: http://obamacrimes.com/index.php/component/content/article/1-main/28-phil-j-berg-files-amended-complaint-in-berg-v-obama

Yes, I got that it was a filing.  But I don't see any document at all from the judge.  If I'm missing it, please tell me which document it is.  Use the document number 1-18 if you would.

I simply don't see anything at all from the judge requiring, or requesting, that Obama release his birth certificate.  Nothing signed by the judge; nothing dated.

Can anyone point to any evidence that a/the judge has asked Obama to produce his birth certificate?


If I'm missing it, please show me where.  But it seems dishonest to me to continue to imply that the court, or judge, has in some way required or requested or 'asked' for the birth certificate.

****
As to the question of how many random loons are attorneys?  Lots. 

How many random loons are Democrats?  Lots.

How many random loons are former Attornies General of the state of Pennsylvania?  Looks like at least one.

[OneTruth]

And by the way, I first heard about this when he was running against Hillary. I thought it was bunk and I'm betting that Hillary and Co. figured Obama would tie it up in court and she would just look desperate or something. This guy doesn't care what he looks like, he just wants Obama to provide the dang piece of paper. He requested that of McCain and Obama and McCain wasted no time giving all the documents to prove his citizenship. But not Obama. What does he have to hide?

I have one more question, why has not one; one respected newspaper or news agency anywhere in the world carrying this story.  None in the U.S., None in England, none in Canada, None in France, Italy, Germany, or Japan, etc.  How come, the only people talking about this are on blogs, and forums?  Because it is not worth the salt in bread for the world press to look at.

You are forcing me to defend a man I do not support, but I cannot allow this silliness to perpetuate.  The best I could do was find this from Our beloved Foxnews, which says,

Candidates meet 'natural-born' test despite rumors
Friday, October 10, 2008
By ANN SANNER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON —  As John McCain and Barack Obama vie to become president, certain fevered voices persist in saying they should not even be allowed to try.

In an argument popular on the Internet and taken seriously practically nowhere else, critics of the candidates argue that each does not qualify to run for the White House because he's not a "natural-born citizen" as the Constitution requires."

I keep going back to this, but I will do this one more time, with all the resources, connections, security clearances of Hillary Clinton and John McCain, then all the International Press (Time, U.S. News & World Report, Newsweek, Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Fox News, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, CNSnews, BBC, etc.), none,  absolutely none of them thinks this is worth their time, and you can be 100% assure that they had their best people look into this, because it would be the biggest, most money making, reputation building story they could produce.

This is clearly backfiring onto John.  You want John to win don't you?  and I know you do, so why are we continuing to do things, to say things, to perpetuate thing that are doing nothing more than hurting him!!!

It appears you have a great deal of resources at your disposal, why are you not using them to promote the positive of John!  That is what we need to do and to sell it, and it is needed more now than ever!

[Jimbob]

A website is not legal proof of anything.  This needs to be establish true or false in a court of law since it is a legal matter.

[AndreainArkansas]

"I don't understand why he wouldn't simply release his birth certificate"

He was hatched?   

I have had one rotten day.  Thank you SO much for the giggle!   

[admin]

Two things.

One, KMV, I looked through that stuff and even contacted a lawyer friend because I don't understand the legal jargon. My lawyer friend said that it isn't clear if the judge denied a certain motion. It would take more digging and she didn't seem interested in doing it. If he did not deny the motion of discovery as asked early on when he did deny the restraining order and one other item, then he might have let it stand. It doesn't say.

But my honest, unpartisan question is, with a suit on him, why would Obama simply not present his birth certificate to the judge and end this? Obviously McCain doesn't have to answer every "loon" either but he complied when he was approached by the former attorney general of Pennsylvania and then was cleared.

Now that it's gone this far and a suit has been filed, I'm just baffled as to why Obama would not simply present it to the judge. He would have nothing to lose and at least some to gain if he was indeed a natural born citizen. Then he would have more to go on than just a picture on a website. He could say that it was confirmed by a judge.

So why does Obama object? Do you not think that's a fair question? If John McCain had objected would it be fair to ask why he wouldn't simply present his birth certificate to the judge?

[admin]

Is this not profoundly odd to anyone else? Clinton released his. Gore, Dukkasis, McGovern. This is just weird.

It's not "profoundly odd."  It's plain stupid.  What's profoundly odd is that you even bring it up.  That's what's "weird".

Yes, why should I care if Obama is eligible to be President? I just need to sit back and stop thinking. If I did that...I'd become a liberal. ::Admin quickly snaps back before the spell of mind numbness overtakes him::

[kmv]

... If John McCain had objected would it be fair to ask why he wouldn't simply present his birth certificate to the judge?

No, admin.  If John McCain objected to releasing ANY information to some nutjob without a judge's request, legal requirement, or valid reason, it would NOT be fair to ask why he didn't.

[phoebe]

... If John McCain had objected would it be fair to ask why he wouldn't simply present his birth certificate to the judge?

No, admin.  If John McCain objected to releasing ANY information to some nutjob without a judge's request, legal requirement, or valid reason, it would NOT be fair to ask why he didn't.

There is a "right to know" (the exact name of that "right" escapes me for the moment) re: any and all presidential candidates. Obama refuses information and documentation re: his college years, as well. One must ask why he won't release requested information, must ask what is he hiding from the American people.

[admin]

It's getting more and more fascinating and historical:

==================================

Philip Berg (D-Pennsylvania) Says He Has a Recording of Barack Obama's Grandmother Claiming Kenyan Birth for Obama

The Pennsylvania Democrat who has sued Sen. Barack Obama demanding he prove his American citizenship – and therefore qualification to run for  president – has confirmed he has a recording of a telephone call from the senator's paternal grandmother confirming his birth in Kenya.

But Philip J. Berg, a former deputy attorney general for Pennsylvania, told the Michael Savage talk radio program tonight that the document is forged and that he has a tape recording he will soon release.

"This has been a real sham he's pulled off for the last 20 months," Berg told Savage. "I'll release it [the tape] in a day or two, affidavits from her talking to a certain person. I heard the tape. She was speaking [to someone] here in the United States."

He said the telephone call was from Obama's paternal grandmother affirming she "was in the delivery room in Kenya when he was born Aug. 4, 1961." For that story, click here.

=========================================

Obama Legally 'Admits' to Being Born in Kenya

Pennsylvania Democrat Philip J. Berg, who filed a lawsuit demanding Sen. Barack Obama present proof of his American citizenship, now says that by failing to respond Obama has legally "admitted" to the lawsuit's accusations, including the charge that the Democratic candidate was born in Mombosa, Kenya.

As WND reported, Berg filed suit in U.S. District Court in August, alleging Obama is not a natural-born citizen and is thus ineligible to serve as president of the United States. Though Obama has posted an image of a Hawaii birth certificate online, Berg demands that the court verify the original document, which the Obama campaign has not provided.

Now Berg cites Rule 36 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, which states that unless the accused party provides written answer or objection to charges within 30 days, the accused legally admits the matter.

Since Obama has only filed motions to dismiss and has not actually answered the charges in the lawsuit, Berg claims, according to Rule 36, Obama has legally admitted he is not a natural-born citizen. Read story.

=====================================

Obama: Most Secretive Democratic Candidate Ever

Sen. Barack Obama's campaign says his campaign will bring a new level of honesty and transparency to the White House. Obama proudly touts that he and Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla, passed a law requiring more transparency via a public database of all federal spending.

But when it comes to offering the public documents about his own public and private activities, Obama's record for openness gets an "F" grade.

During the heated Democratic primary, Obama complained of the Bush White House being "one of the most secretive administrations in our history

[admin]

The plot thickens as a sample of an actual Hawaiin Certificate of Live Birth from that time differs greatly from what Obama put on his website. He still hasn't presented certificate to the judge: http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html

[poptart]

There is something funky about this whole B.O. birth certificate deal, not to mention a LOT of murky things about his past.

Myself, I found his departure from the campaign trail to visit his ailing grandma in Hawaii this past week to be ... curious.

Just my gut feeling, but I think this thing explodes next week and becomes the true 'October Surprise' that folks have been waiting for.

Guess we just wait and see.

[kensington]

The plot thickens as a sample of an actual Hawaiin Certificate of Live Birth from that time differs greatly from what Obama put on his website. He still hasn't presented certificate to the judge: http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html

See, I told you that it was a fake... just like when he prays...  like in that posed picture in the article!  No one who lies as good as he does, can be saved.  He isn't. Who is he praying to? Allah?  I don't trust him... not one bit. I don't think he knows who God is.  I wonder how much scripture he can even test to ever reading?

His "visiting gramma"... reeks of a Bill Clinton move.  Strickly for looks.  But, I do hope that she is OK. I don't wish pain or suffering on her in the least.  I'm just convinced she is ailing... it seems to me she has been pretty shut in since he threw her under the bus...  You'd think he would have visited her before, or we would have seen her.  I think she has been put in her place and kept there for his political means that justify and end. IMHO.

[kensington]

BTW... BEFORE anyone jumps on me to say or ask how much Scripture I think Mc Cain knows...  The answer is, I have no idea, but he doesn't set himself up to appear as though he does know much either.   He comes off more humble than that.   

[sanctusivo]

The plot thickens as a sample of an actual Hawaiin Certificate of Live Birth from that time differs greatly from what Obama put on his website. He still hasn't presented certificate to the judge: http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html

See, I told you that it was a fake... just like when he prays...  like in that posed picture in the article!  No one who lies as good as he does, can be saved.  He isn't. Who is he praying to? Allah?  I don't trust him... not one bit. I don't think he knows who God is.  I wonder how much scripture he can even test to ever reading?

His "visiting gramma"... reeks of a Bill Clinton move.  Strickly for looks.  But, I do hope that she is OK. I don't wish pain or suffering on her in the least.  I'm just convinced she is ailing... it seems to me she has been pretty shut in since he threw her under the bus...  You'd think he would have visited her before, or we would have seen her.  I think she has been put in her place and kept there for his political means that justify and end. IMHO.

(1) Even World Net Daily concedes the birth certificate is legitimate. The state of Hawaii has confirmed that Obama was born there.  His birth announcement in the local paper has been located.  Berg is going to wind up paying Obama's attorneys' costs when the case is dismissed.

(2) McCain puts his mom on the stage at campaign events or Meet The Press, and it's America and apple pie.  Obama makes an expressly private visit to see his sick grandmother, and it's cynical political manipulation.

(3) Even Ken Adelman, let alone Colin Powell, has endorsed Obama; Adelman, one of the chief architects of the strategy of going into Iraq, believes that Obama can manage the war on terror better than McCain.

Just as Somalia is a failed state, the GOP is a failed political party. Just like the Whigs.

In 1848, Zachary Taylor was the last Whig candidate to win the Presidency. In the House 0f 1849 (the 31st Congress), the Whigs had 108 of 233 members, but were only five down from the Democrats.  In the Senate of 1849, the Whigs had 25 senators out of 62.

(The Whig platform was pretty simple for its day: Congressional supremacy in reaction to Andrew Jackson, economic modernization (increased industrialization), a growth-oriented monetary policy, and federal funding of internal improvements like roads and canals.)

Taylor died in 1850, succeeded by his vice-president, Millard Fillmore, who - unlike John Taylor when the Whig President William Henry Harrison died in 1841 - remained consistently Whig. In the 1850 elections for the 32nd Congress, the Whigs dropped to 85 members out of 233 for the 32nd Congress and drop slightly to 23 senators out of 62.

What happens in 1852? The southern agenda of extending slavery into the territories splits the party.  The southern Whigs prevent the nomination of the incumbent, Fillmore, for the Presidency; the party ultimately nominates Winfield Scott.  The Democrat Franklin Pierce trounces Scott.  At this point, even Lincoln, who had served in the House in the 30th Congress of 1847-49 and is leader of the Whigs in Illinois, stops his political career and concentrates on his law practice.

For the 33rd Congress (1853-55): 71 House Whigs out of 234; 22 senators out of 62.
For the 34th Congress (1855-57): the Whigs cease to function as an organized party. There are 100 members of the House in unorganized opposition to the Democrats, 22 senators out of 62.

The GOP was founded in 1854 as a mid-Western party, with any potential Southern obstructionists sheared off and takes the role of the opposition in both chambers of the 35th and 36th Congresses.

The 37th Congress? That's the election that brings Lincoln to the Presidency. Eight years from schism to completed oblivion.

2008 is shaping up to be the 1852 of the GOP unless it takes the necessary steps to become a national party once again.  The Democrats, despite the mantra of "Obama's the most liberal senator ever" - which is disputable and based on a rather flawed survey of Senate votes - were, coming into this election cycle, a Center-Left party.  Somehow, they're able to attract some impressive GOP endorsements like Powell and Adelman. If the Democratic Party can become a true centrist party - and they're a whole lot closer to that than the GOP will be anytime soon, then there is no role in the center for the GOP to fill.

And they're done.  They're just the biggest of the marginal parties with no chance whatsoever of ever winning the Presidency.

At that point, they're the Whigs of 1852, dying from their own internal divisions and the movement of society as a whole from their social priorities. 

Back to 2008. What will happen in eight years?

R.I.P.?

(My guess: regardless of whether McCain wins or loses, the party has to move to the center to live. Otherwise, they're the "Southern Republican Party".)

[poptart]

Somehow, they're able to attract some impressive GOP endorsements like Powell and Adelman.

Those are impressive GOP endorsements??


I laffed.

[Howdyboyalan]

Somehow, they're able to attract some impressive GOP endorsements like Powell and Adelman.

Those are impressive GOP endorsements??


I laffed.

Your right....no one in the GOP is impressive

[Howdyboyalan]

The plot thickens as a sample of an actual Hawaiin Certificate of Live Birth from that time differs greatly from what Obama put on his website. He still hasn't presented certificate to the judge: http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_birth_certificate/2008/10/24/143882.html

See, I told you that it was a fake... just like when he prays...  like in that posed picture in the article!  No one who lies as good as he does, can be saved.  He isn't. Who is he praying to? Allah?  I don't trust him... not one bit. I don't think he knows who God is.  I wonder how much scripture he can even test to ever reading?

His "visiting gramma"... reeks of a Bill Clinton move.  Strickly for looks.  But, I do hope that she is OK. I don't wish pain or suffering on her in the least.  I'm just convinced she is ailing... it seems to me she has been pretty shut in since he threw her under the bus...  You'd think he would have visited her before, or we would have seen her.  I think she has been put in her place and kept there for his political means that justify and end. IMHO.

How the heck did Obama throw her under the bus? In his race speech? He probably told the absolute truth. A lot of my older relatives can be racist, they are a product of their times. If he didn't go to visit her you would call him uncaring. Sometimes I think people need to step back and think about what they are saying before they say it.

How is visiting ones grandma on her potential deathbed remotely curious? You are putting ghosts and devils in the most innocent of events.  If anyone thinks its wierd to go and visit ones dying relative then you all need to start patching up with your families

[Jimmy]

(My guess: regardless of whether McCain wins or loses, the party has to move to the center to live. Otherwise, they're the "Southern Republican Party".)

The party is already left of center. The entire political spectrum has moved so far left since the 60's that the center as it existed then is nearly unrecognizable.

[admin]

sancobamalover,

World Net Daily has NOT said that the birth certificate pictures on Obama's website are legit. You're pulling a Joe Biden here and LYING. That's probably why you didn't cite a source. The links I just posted were from World Net Daily and they are questioning his citizenship status strongly. Though reality usually doesn't interest Obama supporters, here are actual sources from yesterday from World Net Daily strongly attacking Obama not releasing his birth certificate and stating that Obama's grandmother said he was born in Kenya.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78931
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78671

[admin]

... If John McCain had objected would it be fair to ask why he wouldn't simply present his birth certificate to the judge?

No, admin.  If John McCain objected to releasing ANY information to some nutjob without a judge's request, legal requirement, or valid reason, it would NOT be fair to ask why he didn't.

Ah yes KMV, thank you for reminding me that anyone who questions His Highness Barack Hussein Obama is a nutjob. Funny though, that when this "nutjob" who happens to be a Democrat and former Attorney General for the state of Pennsylvania also approached John McCain, McCain turned over his birth certificate and all requested information. And yet Obama fights doing that and keeps hiding his citizenship information. People hide when they have something to HIDE. But we are just to take Obama's word for it, right? We're just supposed to know. Yeah, that makes all the sense in the world because liberals always take conservatives word for it.

But I'm not even thinking that you or most of the others who support Obama will even care if it comes out that he is not a natural born citizen as the Constitution requires of a President. And even though, if that turns out to be the case, that he knew that and had been frauding the system this whole time, it won't matter because he's Obama and his supporters change their views to his rather than choosing a candidate based on issues. So if it comes out that he presented a fake certificate on his website and had been frauding the system by running despite being ineligible, Obama supporters will still want him to be allowed to be President I'm sure. But the Supreme Court will uphold the Constitution and a certain Mr. Howard Dean will be in deep excrement.

[sanctusivo]

sancobamalover,

World Net Daily has NOT said that the birth certificate pictures on Obama's website are legit. You're pulling a Joe Biden here and LYING. That's probably why you didn't cite a source. The links I just posted were from World Net Daily and they are questioning his citizenship status strongly. Though reality usually doesn't interest Obama supporters, here are actual sources from yesterday from World Net Daily strongly attacking Obama not releasing his birth certificate and stating that Obama's grandmother said he was born in Kenya.

adminmycandidateisgoingdowninloserflamesbigtimewaawaawaa (sorry about that, that wasn't appropriate):

I can play WND, too.  See Drew Zahn on August 23, 2008:

A separate WND investigation into Obama's birth certificate utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren't originally there.