Catholic's only about praying

[Penelope]

Who do you pray to, I always pray to the Father (God). Thanks.

[stevehut]

?

In English, please?

[Elaine]

Hi Penelope,

Welcome.   I have not been around here for weeks it seems bec I have in fact been over at a Catholic Forum.   I love this place though -but just got caught up in discussions there.

Prayer is one of my personal interests and I have studied it quite a bit.
"Study about prayer?" You may ask?  :)   There is sooo much instruction in the Bible regarding prayer.  Let's see I think there are 6 or 7 types of prayer. I never knew that, did you? Very exciting stuff. :)

Prayer of agreement- Mt 18:19
prayer of faith-- Mark 11:24,
prayer of consecration and dedication--Luke 22:41-2
prayer of praise and worship ex. Lk 18:43
prayer of intercession - Phil 1:3-4
prayer of binding and loosing that one's Matt 18:18-19.

I hesitated  giving you my source only bec sometimes Catholics don't venture out and read other Christian books -only Catholic writings.

But, the Bible is the Bible I think. If someone has their study of scripture down I hope you'r ok with that if they are not Catholic, I am.

I'm all about learning more and more.

I'll leave you now because that is alot to look up - write again with questions I love it.

Btw, Did you know that we pray to Jesus in praise and gratitude and worship ---but we ask the Father for "things"  in the Name of Jesus? We don't ask Jesus for things or help?   I have so much more to tell you.

( I've only had one prayer my whole life unanswered or not given and I see I kind of asked too late for it to even be possible to happen. Doesn't mean it won't later though in a different way...   :)

God bless,
Elaine

[Penelope]

Elaine,

Thank you for the Bible verses. I just wondered about what other Catholics do as reading some of the posts on this board some people don't pray to the Father. I'm Catholic too.

Yes I think prayer is an interesting topic too, as there are so many different views on it, that I never knew about before- so it has got me to thinking.

I am glad your prayers are being answered , I am blessed too, although I have one problem that I'm trying to get an answere and I don't know if I'm asking wrong, so if its just not his will at this time.

God Bless

PS: Elaine when you pray for healing do you ask the Father in the name of Jesus for it?

[Elaine]

Oh, now you're talkin' my language...asking about healing.

Very humbly I am a healer. Amoung other things - an Intercessor, etc.

Healings are very special. If the person knows you are praying for them -say, you're present with them and perhaps you're even touching them...
their own doubts can cancel your prayers. ( That is a short, in a nutshell description.)

If you are praying for a person long distance and they don't know you are - you actually have more success because they don't have their doubts all over the place.

My preference is to be with them, but not tell them I'm praying for them.  And you also talk to the cancer, the virus, the sore back muscle.
( We can have many of these talks to explain.)

Also, very important - you must say the prayer.( Even in a whisper)
God didn't think Let there be light, did He? 
Jesus didn't say - Ask the Father and hope or pray or think about moving this mountain - if it be His Will ---did He?   This is a crucial point. Very profound.

I have more examples, but you get my point. If need be I can give you more when I have time.

Also, healing is God's Will, period.   You must know this and have no doubt in any way.

You pray and believe it has been done - period.  Because it is His Will and you've just asked Him and you know He heard you and in knowing He's heard you - you have the confidence of knowing you have already received what you have asked for.    Now what is that Phil 4:6 Ha :)   Wrong
Read: 1 John 5:14-15   Ha, I mix 'em all up. :)

If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. Mt 21:22

It can't be to rob a bank successfully, ha - it must always be according to His Will.   Health is according to His Will.   And always remember never ever have any doubt - just because it takes a week -continually thank Him for having answered your prayer.   It takes awhile to come from the unseen realm to the seen, sometimes. ( Though it only took 24 hrs for the fig tree to wither.)   No need to ask twice -that shows doubt -He's already answered your prayer -keep thanking Him - with total and complete confidance.

Another tip - get the word "unbelievable " out of your vocabulary. ;) Never slip in any way.

God bless, must run for now,
Elaine

[kensington]

?

In English, please?

OH STOP     ... why pretend that you don't understand she is asking about Praying to Mary and Saints... 

Lets all be adults here...  or try.   

Penelope... I pray to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.  They are three in one.  My prayers are to them, heard by them, answered by them.  HTH.

But, I am not Catholic...

[Elaine]

?

In English, please?

OH STOP     ... why pretend that you don't understand she is asking about Praying to Mary and Saints.
 

Lets all be adults here...  or try.   

Penelope... I pray to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.  They are three in one.  My prayers are to them, heard by them, answered by them.  HTH.

But, I am not Catholic...

Oh come on ---why did the conversation stop?
We are talking about prayers and answered prayers.    Is the talk too non-intellectual for some? 
This is the nitty gritty of it all, isn't it.....

Let's put our cards on the table ...

Elaine

[papist1]

Catholics do not "pray" to Mary or the saints as an end, as we do with God.

Just as I do not pray to you for prayers for me(intercession), so I do not pray to Mary and the saints as I do to God. Only God do we worship.

It would be heresy to do otherwise and then teach others to do the same.

If I ask those who are in heaven to pray for me and with me to God, then it is no different han asking you or someone on this earth in the Body of Christ to pray with me and for me to God.

I actually find it more powerful because they are there, perfected and glorified in the presence of God Himself, actually.

[Elaine]

I don't really care too much about how other people pray - if you know what I mean, it's just not my business, in all humility - I  find that praying to an angel - or Mary - or a saint is ok  -  but, it's like picking up the phone from a better connection ----I can feel it is more intimate, more direct when speaking to the Father.
Why, even Donald Trump teaches -go to the top -don't expect a decision to be made by a floor person - ask right away to talk to the manager. Funny example, but inherently true. 
Hope that makes sense to people.   But, you know -praying to a middle person (saint) is ok -they are taking care of business, too, on God's behalf ---or is that a goofy way to say it? I dunno. Just my opinion from doing alot of praying.

Delight in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. Ps 37:4
Not to argue or anything - it's just that it isn't written - Delight in the saints and angels and God will... you see what I mean -with all due respect.
I like opening to His Presence and feeling, praising,and talking to Him - He's my Father. He's the One that wants an intimate relationship with me, and I Him.

But if it works and feels comfortable to someone to have a "middle man" - I think that's cool.
You know, some people might feel shy. They might feel more of a connection with a past human - Mary or a saint.
Tangential poster, Elaine :)

[N8te720]

We are to pray to the father in Jesus name. Mary is a human. Jesus came in the flesh that he might destroy the works of the devil, and he did. She is just the lucky one to have God in her womb. Shes not the actual mother of Jesus (in terms of his soul not being created until she conceived). Hes always existed. she was created like the rest of us.

When I pray its what ever I feel. The ways on how to pray in the bible, are prayer formats to use when you pray. You don't have to say them like the bible says them. You pray them in words you choose. As long as its from the heart. We are to have a personal relationship with the lord. Pray what you feel.     

[broach972]

We are to pray to the father in Jesus name. Mary is a human. Jesus came in the flesh that he might destroy the works of the devil, and he did. She is just the lucky one to have God in her womb. Shes not the actual mother of Jesus (in terms of his soul not being created until she conceived). Hes always existed. she was created like the rest of us.   

Hmmmm...interesting.

Mary was human...absolutely.

Was she created like the rest of us?...yep.

She was "lucky?"  I doubt that God intended the birth of Jesus to be part of a lottery.  She wasn't "lucky."  She was chosen and given a choice.

Mary WAS the mother of Jesus.  To deny this point is to deny the human nature of Christ.  If this is the case, then we have a big problem here.

[N8te720]

We are to pray to the father in Jesus name. Mary is a human. Jesus came in the flesh that he might destroy the works of the devil, and he did. She is just the lucky one to have God in her womb. Shes not the actual mother of Jesus (in terms of his soul not being created until she conceived). Hes always existed. she was created like the rest of us.   

Hmmmm...interesting.

Mary was human...absolutely.

Was she created like the rest of us?...yep.

She was "lucky?"  I doubt that God intended the birth of Jesus to be part of a lottery.  She wasn't "lucky."  She was chosen and given a choice.

Mary WAS the mother of Jesus.  To deny this point is to deny the human nature of Christ.  If this is the case, then we have a big problem here.

The worldly mother of God the son yes. Not the mother of God all together. If that was so, she would have to be God. I agree 100% that she was chosen, and her obedience to God had something to do with that. It doesn't mean she wasn't lucky to be the one. Maybe luck is not the word, but it was a true gift to be the one chosen for such a position.

[kensington]

We are to pray to the father in Jesus name. Mary is a human. Jesus came in the flesh that he might destroy the works of the devil, and he did. She is just the lucky one to have God in her womb. Shes not the actual mother of Jesus (in terms of his soul not being created until she conceived). Hes always existed. she was created like the rest of us.   

Hmmmm...interesting.

Mary was human...absolutely.

Was she created like the rest of us?...yep.

She was "lucky?"  I doubt that God intended the birth of Jesus to be part of a lottery.  She wasn't "lucky."  She was chosen and given a choice.

Mary WAS the mother of Jesus.  To deny this point is to deny the human nature of Christ.  If this is the case, then we have a big problem here.

The worldly mother of God the son yes. Not the mother of God all together. If that was so, she would have to be God. I agree 100% that she was chosen, and her obedience to God had something to do with that. It doesn't mean she wasn't lucky to be the one. Maybe luck is not the word, but it was a true gift to be the one chosen for such a position.

I think the word you are looking for rather than lucky is Blessed... she was blessed to have been chosen.  She even said so. Does that make her part of the Godhead? No... should we be praying to her? No... can she answer prayer or do anything for us... No. 

You are VERY correct when you say she was not the Mother of GOD all together, she is not diety... she was and is human. 

[CDHealy]

If you all think that Catholics (and Eastern Orthodox) believe Mary to be a deity to whom we pray you either aren't listening to a thing we say or you're spreading falsehoods.

[N8te720]

We are to pray to the father in Jesus name. Mary is a human. Jesus came in the flesh that he might destroy the works of the devil, and he did. She is just the lucky one to have God in her womb. Shes not the actual mother of Jesus (in terms of his soul not being created until she conceived). Hes always existed. she was created like the rest of us.   

Hmmmm...interesting.

Mary was human...absolutely.

Was she created like the rest of us?...yep.

She was "lucky?"  I doubt that God intended the birth of Jesus to be part of a lottery.  She wasn't "lucky."  She was chosen and given a choice.

Mary WAS the mother of Jesus.  To deny this point is to deny the human nature of Christ.  If this is the case, then we have a big problem here.

The worldly mother of God the son yes. Not the mother of God all together. If that was so, she would have to be God. I agree 100% that she was chosen, and her obedience to God had something to do with that. It doesn't mean she wasn't lucky to be the one. Maybe luck is not the word, but it was a true gift to be the one chosen for such a position.

I think the word you are looking for rather than lucky is Blessed... she was blessed to have been chosen.  She even said so. Does that make her part of the Godhead? No... should we be praying to her? No... can she answer prayer or do anything for us... No. 

You are VERY correct when you say she was not the Mother of GOD all together, she is not diety... she was and is human. 

Thank you for clarifying that Kensington  .

If you all think that Catholics (and Eastern Orthodox) believe Mary to be a deity to whom we pray you either aren't listening to a thing we say or you're spreading falsehoods.

I don't want to be false in what I say. What do Catholics believe on this matter?

[kensington]

CD cannot speak for ALL Catholics ... He can ONLY speak for himself... for I know Catholics personally, who do pray to Mary, they admit it, they worship her, and they believe she is part of the Godhead and redemption.  Whether CD likes it or not. 

The Catholic Church has been divided on this for some time, those who think she should be worshipped and those who don't.  But, the fact remains that CD can ONLY speak for himself.

What really worries me is not so much who isn't as much as WHY aren't those who don't, teaching and telling the Catholics who do, the truth. If my brother or sister in the LORD was so far off from Biblical truth, I would try to warn them... to help them, to call them to repentance. 

So, I don't get why 1/2 of the religion stands by while the other 1/2 walk in Idolatry...      Shouldn't they care enough to make it a mission to teach those who are lost and gone astray? 

See info below...

"There is a movement underway in the Catholic Church to have Pope John Paul II declare Mary the Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate of humanity as the fifth official Marian dogma (article of faith) for Catholics. Dr. Mark Miravalle of the Franciscan University of Steubenville, organizer of the "Vox Populi Mariae Mediatrici" movement, has promoted May 31st as the appropriate date for the promulgation of the dogma, which was formerly the liturgical feast of Mediatrix of All Graces, established by Pope Benedict XV.

For more information see the article Marian Feasts in the EWTN library.

If proclaimed, the five Marian dogmas would then be:

    1.   that Mary is the "Mother of God"
    2.   that Mary was "Ever-Virgin"
    3.   that Mary was herself "immaculately conceived" (without sin)
    4.   that Mary was assumed into Heaven and crowned "Queen of Heaven and Earth"
    5.   that Mary is "Mediatrix of all Graces, Co-redemptrix and Advocate"

The August 25, 1997 edition of Newsweek magazine has a feature article on the petition drive to have the Pope make the formal definition of the fifth dogma.

As an article of faith, the Catholic would be bound to believe an ex-cathedra declaration, and would risk loss of their salvation should they choose to reject the dogma. This would be because by doubting or rejecting the ex-cathedra pronouncements of the Pope, they would according to Catholic teaching, be rejecting the infallibly declared word of God, that has the same authority as if God himself had declared it in person.

By the titles of Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, the Roman Catholic Church means that salvation for everyone would be obtained through Mary, and not directly from Jesus Christ. While this is in fact already taught by the Catholic Church, and has been for many years, it is not yet formally defined as binding dogma, though some Catholics feel it has already achieved that status.

[kensington]

Here are examples of this teaching, the first two are papal encyclicals:

    5. If in all this series of Mysteries, Venerable Brethren, are developed the counsels of God in regard to us -- "counsels of wisdom and of tenderness" (St. Bernard) -- not less apparent is the greatness of the benefits for which we are debtors to the Virgin Mother. No man can meditate upon these without feeling a new awakening in his heart of confidence that he will certainly obtain through Mary the fullness of the mercies of God. And to this end vocal prayer chimes well with the Mysteries. First, as is meet and right, comes the Lord's Prayer, addressed to Our Father in Heaven: and having, with the elect petitions dictated by Our Divine Master, called upon the Father, from the throne of His Majesty we turn our prayerful voices to Mary. Thus is confirmed that law of merciful meditation of which We have spoken, and which St. Bernardine of Siena thus expresses: "Every grace granted to man has three degrees in order; for by God it is communicated to Christ, from Christ it passes to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us."

Source: IUCUNDA SEMPER EXPECTATIONE (ON THE ROSARY) Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII promulgated on September 8, 1894.

    21. ... At Cana in Galilee there is shown only one concrete aspect of human need, apparently a small one of little importance ("They have no wine"). But it has a symbolic value: this coming to the aid of human needs means, at the same time, bringing those needs within the radius of Christ's messianic mission and salvific power. Thus there is a mediation: Mary places herself between her Son and mankind in the reality of their wants, needs and sufferings. She puts herself "in the middle," that is to say she acts as a mediatrix not as an outsider, but in her position as mother. She knows that as such she can point out to her Son the needs of mankind, and in fact, she "has the right" to do so. Her mediation is thus in the nature of intercession: Mary "intercedes" for mankind.

Source: REDEMPTORIS MATER (ON THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY IN THE LIFE OF THE PILGRIM CHURCH), Encyclical of Pope John Paul II promulgated on March 25, 1987.

    Mary's work was to be our co-redemptress, and to mediate for us together with Christ, but of course in subordination to Him. He is the one principle Mediator to whom we owe all. Do not be disturbed by this association of Mary with the redemptive work of Christ. If all Christians are members of Christ, and are called upon, as St. Paul says, to fill up what is wanting to the suffering of Christ, then you can be sure that as Mary, His Mother, was more closely associated with Christ than we are, so she is more closely associated with His redemptive work. By a special title, therefore, we call her co-redemptress. We call her "Our life, or sweetness, and our hope." For, in bringing forth Christ she brought forth us to life, she is the model of every virtue, and above all should be the glory of all women; and she is our hope as Eve was our despair. All this tells us what she is for. She is our spiritual Mother in heaven, and she fulfills the duties of a Mother, winning for us by her intercession that grace of Christ which is life to our souls and which, please God, will mean eternal life in the end.


Yuck and more Yuck...    

[CDHealy]

CD cannot speak for ALL Catholics ... He can ONLY speak for himself... for I know Catholics personally, who do pray to Mary, they admit it, they worship her, and they believe she is part of the Godhead and redemption.  Whether CD likes it or not. 

I never claimed to speak for all Catholics.  I claimed to promulgate the true teaching of the Catholic Church, and that is in fact what I've done.

That there are Catholics who worship Mary as God--which I highly doubt you truly know any that do that; you're so obsessed with misunderstanding what people are actually saying so you can judge them and condemn them that I don't really believe that the people you refer to are actually doing what you claim--does not disprove what the true teaching and practice of the Catholic Church is.  It only proves that, if they are doing what you say they are doing, they are in sin, need to go to confession and repent first before God and then before their Roman Catholic priest, who will tell them they shouldn't be worshipping Mary as God.

The Catholic Church has been divided on this for some time, those who think she should be worshipped and those who don't.  But, the fact remains that CD can ONLY speak for himself.

Actually, the Catholic Church hasn't been divided over whether Mary should be worshsipped--the Catholic Church is of one mind: Mary is not to be worshipped as God. You are absolutely ignorant on the matter of the title of Mediatrix and what's at issue in the Church.

See info below...

"There is a movement underway in the Catholic Church to have Pope John Paul II declare Mary the Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate of humanity as the fifth official Marian dogma (article of faith) for Catholics. Dr. Mark Miravalle of the Franciscan University of Steubenville, organizer of the "Vox Populi Mariae Mediatrici" movement, has promoted May 31st as the appropriate date for the promulgation of the dogma, which was formerly the liturgical feast of Mediatrix of All Graces, established by Pope Benedict XV.

This has nothing to do with worshipping Mary.  You're just wrong on what this is about.  It has to do with Mary's role, as the mother of Jesus, in human salvation and what is appropriate to say about that.  It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with worshipping Mary.

You are so ill-informed of what Catholics truly teach and practice that I'm beginning to wonder if you know anything about Catholics at all.

If proclaimed, the five Marian dogmas would then be:

    1.   that Mary is the "Mother of God"

If Jesus is God, and Mary is his mother, then she is the Mother  of God.  This has nothing to do with worshipping Mary but everything to do with who Christ is (if Mary isn't the mother of God, then Jesus isn't God).

2.   that Mary was "Ever-Virgin"

Mary's ever-virginity was proclaimed without exception throughout all Christian history, from the earliest days until today.  Not even Luther or Calvin questioned Mary's ever-virginity.  Mary's ever-virginity only began to be questioned under the radical reformation (with all it's problems of messianism, sexual promiscuity, killing and so forth).

3.   that Mary was herself "immaculately conceived" (without sin)

Not "without sin" but without original sin.  Big, big difference.  But again, this has nothing to do with worshipping Mary.  You're deeply, deeply mistaken.

4.   that Mary was assumed into Heaven and crowned "Queen of Heaven and Earth"

The assumption of Mary has to do with the Resurrection.  Her being queen is again something that has to do with Jesus.  If Jesus is king of heaven and earth, and if Mary is his mother, then, just as Bathsheba, she is the queen mother/geburah, and therefore, because of her Son, queen of heaven and earth.

5.   that Mary is "Mediatrix of all Graces, Co-redemptrix and Advocate"

Again, this has nothing, zero, zip, nada, to do with worshipping Mary.  It is, once again, about Jesus.  Is Jesus the mediator, the redeemer, the advocate?  Is Mary is his mother?  Did Mary give to Jesus his humanity?  Yes and yes.  Therefore, she has a role in Christ's mediation, redepmtion and advocacy of us.  He is her Savior, and her unique and unrepeatable role is a part of how he saves her and us.

You are so ignorant and uniformed on these matters, I wonder that someone hasn't thought to sue you for slander.

The August 25, 1997 edition of Newsweek magazine has a feature article on the petition drive to have the Pope make the formal definition of the fifth dogma.

As an article of faith, the Catholic would be bound to believe an ex-cathedra declaration, and would risk loss of their salvation should they choose to reject the dogma. This would be because by doubting or rejecting the ex-cathedra pronouncements of the Pope, they would according to Catholic teaching, be rejecting the infallibly declared word of God, that has the same authority as if God himself had declared it in person.

No question about such obligations.  And we would do well to note that it is now 2008 and eleven years have passed since that article was written--with no ex cathedra pronouncement.  If the Vatican makes such a pronouncement it will only do so after much careful consideration and prayer.

By the titles of Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, the Roman Catholic Church means that salvation for everyone would be obtained through Mary, and not directly from Jesus Christ. While this is in fact already taught by the Catholic Church, and has been for many years, it is not yet formally defined as binding dogma, though some Catholics feel it has already achieved that status.

This is NOT what Rome teaches about Mary, nor will this new title, if it is ever formally defined, say what you claim is being said of it.

You're just flat out wrong.  I don't know how else to put it.

[CDHealy]

Here are examples of this teaching, the first two are papal encyclicals:

    5. If in all this series of Mysteries, Venerable Brethren, are developed the counsels of God in regard to us -- "counsels of wisdom and of tenderness" (St. Bernard) -- not less apparent is the greatness of the benefits for which we are debtors to the Virgin Mother. No man can meditate upon these without feeling a new awakening in his heart of confidence that he will certainly obtain through Mary the fullness of the mercies of God. And to this end vocal prayer chimes well with the Mysteries. First, as is meet and right, comes the Lord's Prayer, addressed to Our Father in Heaven: and having, with the elect petitions dictated by Our Divine Master, called upon the Father, from the throne of His Majesty we turn our prayerful voices to Mary. Thus is confirmed that law of merciful meditation of which We have spoken, and which St. Bernardine of Siena thus expresses: "Every grace granted to man has three degrees in order; for by God it is communicated to Christ, from Christ it passes to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us."

Source: IUCUNDA SEMPER EXPECTATIONE (ON THE ROSARY) Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII promulgated on September 8, 1894.

    21. ... At Cana in Galilee there is shown only one concrete aspect of human need, apparently a small one of little importance ("They have no wine"). But it has a symbolic value: this coming to the aid of human needs means, at the same time, bringing those needs within the radius of Christ's messianic mission and salvific power. Thus there is a mediation: Mary places herself between her Son and mankind in the reality of their wants, needs and sufferings. She puts herself "in the middle," that is to say she acts as a mediatrix not as an outsider, but in her position as mother. She knows that as such she can point out to her Son the needs of mankind, and in fact, she "has the right" to do so. Her mediation is thus in the nature of intercession: Mary "intercedes" for mankind.

Source: REDEMPTORIS MATER (ON THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY IN THE LIFE OF THE PILGRIM CHURCH), Encyclical of Pope John Paul II promulgated on March 25, 1987.

    Mary's work was to be our co-redemptress, and to mediate for us together with Christ, but of course in subordination to Him. He is the one principle Mediator to whom we owe all. Do not be disturbed by this association of Mary with the redemptive work of Christ. If all Christians are members of Christ, and are called upon, as St. Paul says, to fill up what is wanting to the suffering of Christ, then you can be sure that as Mary, His Mother, was more closely associated with Christ than we are, so she is more closely associated with His redemptive work. By a special title, therefore, we call her co-redemptress. We call her "Our life, or sweetness, and our hope." For, in bringing forth Christ she brought forth us to life, she is the model of every virtue, and above all should be the glory of all women; and she is our hope as Eve was our despair. All this tells us what she is for. She is our spiritual Mother in heaven, and she fulfills the duties of a Mother, winning for us by her intercession that grace of Christ which is life to our souls and which, please God, will mean eternal life in the end.

These citations absolutely and unequivocally demonstrate the falsehoods you are making about the  Catholic Church--and by the way confirm that what I'm saying about Rome is true.

You either can't read properly or are so blinded by your prejudice that you can't see the truth when it's right in front of you.

[Elaine]

Oh, Brother, I have just had it.

[kensington]

You either can't read properly or are so blinded by your prejudice that you can't see the truth when it's right in front of you.

Yeah, that's it... the fact that it reads just as I said it does, isn't important.  However, I was praying about this forum tonight while I was out Christmas shopping with my grandkids...  and something just jumps out at me...

Not big deal really, just another truth you will ignore.  But, when it comes to these discussions, everyone else seems to discuss and post what they believe and the scriptures, even citing sources, while you sit here and get down on a personal level insulting those who post in here.  It's constant and consistently your posting style.  You revile people for not agreeing with you.

Just something to think about  "Brother".  (you did say people outside of the Catholic church can still be "the church" ... ).   

[kensington]

Oh, Brother, I have just had it.

Then you might want to duck sister...  cause if that is the way you feel about this...  perhaps you shouldn't be in here.   

[Elaine]

Oh, Brother, I have just had it.

Then you might want to duck sister...  cause if that is the way you feel about this...  perhaps you shouldn't be in here.   ::tippinghat::

You are absolutely right. K  :) ----I came here to apologize though --I should never let my fingers do the walking when I feel discouraged.

It's just "my thing" - and you carry on...you'll see my post under Purgatory.
I'm over it now.

Thank you and it's spelled sista, my sista  ;)
Elaine

[sopranette]

Gosh, Elaine.  Bless you for your wonderful attitude!

love,

Sopranette

[sopranette]

Yuck and more Yuck...    

Really, that's just going too far.......

love,

Sopranette

[kensington]

Yuck and more Yuck...    

Really, that's just going too far.......

love,

Sopranette

Oh?  And when did you get promoted to moderator?

[Elaine]

Yuck and more Yuck...    

Really, that's just going too far.......

love,

Sopranette

Oh?  And when did you get promoted to moderator?

Kensington,

Step away from the coffee cup.   

Kidding,
Elaine

[kensington]

Why Elaine?   Besides, it's 3:30 pm here... coffee time ended hours and hours ago.   

[Elaine]

Why Elaine?   Besides, it's 3:30 pm here... coffee time ended hours and hours ago.   

Hey,
I would shoot the stuff in my veins - it's for the world around me I don't.
:) Elaine

[sopranette]

Yuck and more Yuck...    

Really, that's just going too far.......

love,

Sopranette

Oh?  And when did you get promoted to moderator?

That's no way to do a comeback.  Tsk, tsk:

"You are simply a shiver looking for a spine to crawl up"

or:

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others....whenever."

or:

"You are not only dull yourself, you are the cause of dullness in others."

You're welcome.

love,

Sopranette 

[kensington]

Well, I'd just have to care Sopranette to put effort into it... now wouldn't I?