What Marriage is

[HRoberson]

Is it unlawful to marry without a State Marriage License?
Is marrying an unlawful activity?
If not, why do people need a License from the State?
And very important, Can the State license an unlawful activity?

I would just skip the State License and have a religious ceremoney. Maybe a legal name change if I want the surname changed.

Separation of Church and State.

If your state requires a license to be married, rather than acknowledging common-law marriages, then it would be unlawful and unChristian to "be married" without a license. Not because you would be shaking up, but because the law requires a license, and there is nothing immoral with the state requiring a license.

[Sherman Nobles]

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness2 Tim 2:15-16

Of course, being able to "shun profane and vain babblings" is dependant upon applying oneself to correctly understanding the word of truth.  I encourage you to broaden your studies a little, well, a lot, and maybe even take a course or study a book on basic hermeneutics.  Also, the key to being like the Bereans is to be both diligent to study scripture and open minded (humble and willing to embrace "new-to-me" information). 

[elijah_101]

I've said it so many times now I feel like a stuck record. Jesus said that IF our spouses are unfaithful was ARE allowed to divorce. IF we divorce for that reaosn we do NOT committ adultery if we remarry. You never answer this.


You have twisted many verses and passages such as the women at the well, even though Jesus recognised ALL of her six marriages,

[/quote]

Posted by: chosenone) You Said That if you Get Divorced and You Remarried, you Do NOT Commit Adultery

Jesus Says

and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Matt 5:32

Jesus Told the Women She had 5 Husbands, and the Husband that she has Now, IS NOT HER HUSBAND VERSE 18

Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. John 4:16-18

Jesus Says Agin

and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Matt 19:9

Jesus Said Agin

And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. Mark 10:11


Jesus Said Agin

and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband [/b] committeth adultery. Luke 16:18

The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
1 Cor 7:39

So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress
Romans 7:3

Jesus Spoke the Word, and the Word Came From God, And the Word is God, And All things were made by God

yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written
Romans 3:4

[Tantor]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Explain to me what you consider scripture and why..

Also explain to me why you feel you can interpret scripture within a vacuum (void of historical witnesses and without the oversight of a council of elders to keep you from straying.).

Then we might be able to talk intelligently.

[Sherman Nobles]

And one more thing, Give me a Scripture saying you Can Remarrie, When the Son of God says you Cannot[/b]

First, Jesus did not say that a person cannot remarry; you have interpreted what He said to mean that.  The Greek word "apoluo" translated "put away" in the KJV, actually can be translated as either "separation" or "divorce" depending on the context.  In the Aramaic text there are actually two words used to convey Jesus' meaning, nishry and nishbook, one meaning separation and the other divorce.  Of course, in the Jewish context of the 1st century, a woman who was expelled by her husband but not given a bill of divorce was still "bound by law" to her husband.  

But you know, I've covered this and much more in the other thread.  
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php/topic,20182.0.html
You're welcome to read it if you wish; or of course, you're welcome to assert the errant traditional interpretation of what Jesus said.

Also, concerning scripture that says a person may remarry, actually the bill of divorce was given so that a woman could marry another man and not fear being reclaimed by her 1st husband.  Deut.24:1-4 notes that if a man expelled his wife he is to give her a bill of divorce.  If she marries another man, her 1st husband could never again remarry her even if her 2nd husband divorced her too or died.  What was forbidden was remarriage of the divorced couple; and the divorced woman being free to remarry is assumed.

In fact, the purpose of the bill of divorce was to mitigate the oppression of women, to stop men from expelling them and yet retaining legal rights over them; the bill of divorce was given so that women could marry again.

And as you noted, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine...."

[chosenone]

if we remarry after our spouse has committed adultery we do NOT commit adultery and whoever marries us also does NOT  committ adultery, if we do not committ adultery than the person who marries us does NOT committ adultery either. Whether the person who divorces their spouse without any Biblical reason can remarry I dont know, but the innocent party can remarry.

The woman at the well had been married 6 times and she was living with the man she was with at that time.She was NOT married to him otherwise Jesus would have said that she had been married 7 times and not 6. Jesus RECOGNISED ALL of her marriages, otherwise he would have said that she had ony been married once and she had lived with 7 other men. he said YOU HAVE HAD 6 HUSBANDS. HE SAID IT, it IS THERE IS BLACK AND WHITE.

I would love to know if you are married or not and if so are you happily married. of course you may not answer this,  but it does have some bearing on why you are stuck on this idea.
I am very happily married to a man whose wife committed adultery. my ex also committed sexual immorality, thus we are BOTH free to remarry.This is what The Bible says.

[elijah_101]

Posted by: chosenone  we remarry after our spouse has committed adultery we do NOT commit adultery and whoever marries us also does NOT  committ adultery

But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;

12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
1 Tim 5:11-13

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings,

and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past,

that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:19-21

[Tantor]

Posted by: chosenone  we remarry after our spouse has committed adultery we do NOT commit adultery and whoever marries us also does NOT  committ adultery

But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;

12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
1 Tim 5:11-13

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings,

and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past,

that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:19-21

It's unfortunate that you haven't listened to single biblical clarrification that has been presented here.. you are locked in a non-biblical crusade of self righteousness that totally forgets the fact that we are human.. and forgiven.

Do you by chance feel you are locked in a horrible marriage and feel everyone should be as miserable as you?

[chosenone]

Posted by: chosenone  we remarry after our spouse has committed adultery we do NOT commit adultery and whoever marries us also does NOT  committ adultery

But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;

12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
1 Tim 5:11-13

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings,

and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past,

that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:19-21

If our spouse committs adultery we are allowed by jesus to divorce our spouses and do NOT committ adultery by remarrying. The Bible says it and I believe it. Fpr whatever reason, you cvan not or will not see this.
You still havent answered my question about your own marriage (if you have one) I have a feeling that you are in a bad marriage and would really like to leave and that is why you are so attacking those who dissagree with you. You may be jealous of those who are in such blessed and happy and Godly second marriages, becuase you havent got one. Thers is a definate reason why your thoughts are so distorted in this area.

[elijah_101]

Posted by: chosenoneIf our spouse committs adultery we are allowed by jesus to divorce our spouses and do NOT committ adultery by remarrying. The Bible says it and I believe it

Were does Jesus say this at, Give me Scripture, and verse

[chosenone]

Posted by: chosenoneIf our spouse committs adultery we are allowed by jesus to divorce our spouses and do NOT committ adultery by remarrying. The Bible says it and I believe it

Were does Jesus say this at, Give me Scripture, and verse

matthew 5 v 32
EXCEPT FOR MARITAL UNFAITHFULLNESS. If we divorce and remarry for other reasons than this we are committing adutery, but if we divorce and remarry because our spouse was unfaithful, we DO NOT commit adultery, This what Jesus himself said. EXCEPT FOR MARITAL UNFAUTHFULLNESS, This is what has become known as the 'get out'clause because it is the one reason that Jesus gives for divorce and thus remarriage. Many peeople such as yourself wish this verse wasnt there, but it is and that is that.

Please could you answer the question about your own marriage.  You come accross as very bitter and angry, and there must be a reason for this. I think that maybe you are in an unhappy marriage which you secretly wish you could be free from, and that you resent the fact that some of us are in good, Godly and blessed second marriages . It would be really good if you did respond in a more human way,( instead of a legalistic and angry way), like the rest of us do. its hard to relate to someone who just keeps responding in a harsh and judgemental way. Maybe have a think about this and why it is sooooooo important to you that you have to preach at us about this subject. If you really believe this then that is fine but why do you feel the need to dogmatically order others about as to what YOU say they should be doing.   
It would be good to relate to you as a human being and then maybe we would get somewhere  I am sure that there is a real person behind these posts somewhere, maybe you could show yourself?

[elijah_101]

Posted by: chosenone matthew 5 v 32
EXCEPT FOR MARITAL UNFAITHFULLNESS. If we divorce and remarry for other reasons than this we are committing adutery, but if we divorce and remarry because our spouse was unfaithful, we DO NOT commit adultery Posted by: chosenone

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Matt 5:32

Jesus said for the Cause of Fornaction, and The Husband Divorces His Wife, Causes Her to Go out and Marry another Man And she Commits Adultery , So The Man That Marries the Divorced Women Commits Adultery

Matt 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication,

and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Just as Jesus said, it does not Matter who Broke the Marriage, Jesus Said if the Husband Marries another he Commits Adultery,

And who Ever Marries His Wife, Commits Adultery, Because She is Bound by the LAW So Long as he Husband Is ALIVE Marriage is till DEATH DO YOU PART

God is a Unchangeing God, and his Words as Not VOID

Acording to the Scripture if the Husband is DEAD she is Free to Marry. 1 Corinthians 7:39

But if her Husband Liveth and she be married to another Man, She shall be called an Adulteress - Romans 7:3

[Sherman Nobles]

Mt. 5:29
If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Mt. 18:19
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

Mk. 9:47
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire—

[chay chay]

Hmmm....I do know some people who have experienced divorced once in the past and remarried and they are walking with the Lord and being used by Him mightily.  I'm also confused because in Mark 10:11 it is written ..."Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

[Sherman Nobles]

Hmmm....I do know some people who have experienced divorced once in the past and remarried and they are walking with the Lord and being used by Him mightily.  I'm also confused because in Mark 10:11 it is written ..."Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

Sadly, what you quoted above is a poor translation of the passage.  Note that both apoluo (put away) and gameo (marries) are in the subjunctive mood in the the Greek text; and thus another viable (best I believe) translation is;

"Anyone who divorces his wife in order to marry another commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband in order to marry another, she commits adultery." 

Jesus spoke prophetically against the negative motives of the heart; He did not disagree with Moses much less intend to change the law of Moses including the bill of divorce.

[chosenone]

Hmmm....I do know some people who have experienced divorced once in the past and remarried and they are walking with the Lord and being used by Him mightily.  I'm also confused because in Mark 10:11 it is written ..."Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

Hi Chay chay
It also says that if your spouse has committed adultery you do not committ adultery by divorcing and remarrying. This what I keep saying to elijah but he wont take any notice.  maybe someone else can try

I am in a marriage where we are both dvorced and both our previous spouses committed sexual imorality. Thus we are free to remarry. We have been given amazing words from God through people who hardly know us or our circumstances about how our mariage will be so blessed etc, and our lives have been transformed, God has used our marriage in amazing ways, not least to help my children who have no contact with their own father.
I also know other remarried people who God is blessing mightily. if they were committing sdultery, He would never do this.

I just wish elijah would show us the real person behind the angry posts, so that we can have a proper Christian interaction and not one that is like this.
he will not answer my questions, unfortunately, so I may never know of my theory of him being trapped in an unhappy marriage is right, but I suspect that it is as something is causing this attitude in him..  

[chosenone]

Hmmm....I do know some people who have experienced divorced once in the past and remarried and they are walking with the Lord and being used by Him mightily.  I'm also confused because in Mark 10:11 it is written ..."Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

Sadly, what you quoted above is a poor translation of the passage.  Note that both apoluo (put away) and gameo (marries) are in the subjunctive mood in the the Greek text; and thus another viable (best I believe) translation is;

"Anyone who divorces his wife in order to marry another commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband in order to marry another, she commits adultery." 

Jesus spoke prophetically against the negative motives of the heart; He did not disagree with Moses much less intend to change the law of Moses including the bill of divorce.

that is interesting sherman. That puts a whole new slant on it doesnt it. Does this mean that my husbands ex wife, who divorced my husband after meeting someone else, as she wanted to marry him, isnt allowed to remarry, even if she broke up with that particuler man?

[Sherman Nobles]

Sadly, what you quoted above is a poor translation of the passage.  Note that both apoluo (put away) and gameo (marries) are in the subjunctive mood in the the Greek text; and thus another viable (best I believe) translation is;

"Anyone who divorces his wife in order to marry another commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband in order to marry another, she commits adultery." 

Jesus spoke prophetically against the negative motives of the heart; He did not disagree with Moses much less intend to change the law of Moses including the bill of divorce.

that is interesting sherman. That puts a whole new slant on it doesnt it. Does this mean that my husbands ex wife, who divorced my husband after meeting someone else, as she wanted to marry him, isnt allowed to remarry, even if she broke up with that particuler man?

The problem is divorce, not remarriage, regardless of the reason for the divorce.  There are moral (selfless) and immoral (selfish) reasons for divorce, but divorce breaks/ends the marriage covenant.  Thus both are subsequently single and able to marry again. 

Only if the couple is not legally divorced is there a problem with them marrying someone else.  In the 1st century Jewish culture, though a man expelled his wife, if he did not give her a bill of divorce she was still bound by law to him; thus if she married another man, she was committing adultery and the man that married her was committing adultery.

An example of this is the twisted relationship of Herod, Herodias, and Phillip.  Herodias was Phillip's wife, but left Phillip to marry Herod.  However, Herodias wrote Phillip an illegal bill of divorce.  According to Jewish Law, only the man could write the bill of divorce; women could not write a bill of divorce.  Thus when Herodias left Phillip giving him a bill of divorce, it was not legal.  John the Baptist was correct in denouncing that relationship because Herodias was still legally married to Phillip, though she was illegally married to Herod his brother.

Sadly, because the early Gentile church did not understand the Jewish culture, what Jesus said has been misinterpreted and mistranslated in almost all English translations. 

For example, the "any-matter" question of Mt.19:3 does not reference acceptable reasons for divorce; it actually references a rabbinical debate concerning divorce philosophy, law, and procedures called the "Any-matter" divorce debate.  It is similar to the No-fault divorce debate in the American culture.  Does "No-fault" mean that no one is at fault for the divorce?  Of course not!  It references a debate over divorce philosophy, law, and procedures.  The "Any-matter" divorce debate centered on two different interpretations of "any-matter" in Deut. 24:1.

But Jesus refused to get sucked into a meaningless debate; rather, He challenged the Pharisees to refocus on empowering people to have lasting loving marriages instead of pointless unending arguing over divorce procedures.... Is the divorce effective when the bill of divorce is written or not until the document is put in the wife's hand and she is expelled from the house.  Does the wife have to be expelled first or handed the document first?  Can the man commission someone to hand the bill of divorce to her, or must he do it personally?  yada yada yada. 

The Pharisees had neglected and even countered the Spirit of the Law.  The law of the bill of divorce was given to mitigate, significantly lessen the oppression of women.  If a man was going to refuse to fulfill his obligations as a husband, even expelling his wife completely from his care, the least he could do was to give her a bill of divorce a legally free her to marry another man.  However, many men did not do so because if he did so for selfish reasons, he had to pay the dowry, approximately 10-15 years worth of salary.

So Jesus, in Mt. 19 is explaining why Moses was inspired to give the bill of divorce, challenging immoral selfish reasons, and reaffirming the divine ideal of marriage.  Why did Moses enact the bill of divorce? 1) Because, sadly, people often harden their hearts against one another making divorce a necessary lesser of two evils. And 2) to free expelled women to legally marry again and not fear their previous husband either reclaiming them or accusing them of adultery.

An example in the OT of a man who abandoned his wife and subsequently reclaimed her though she had married another man was David and Michal.  David left Michal his first wife. She was subsequently given to Peltiel by her father Saul.  And some 15 or so years later David reclaimed her, breaking up a loving monogomous relationship and adding her to his heirom.

Anyhow, I encourage you to read the other thread I mentioned.  You'll find it very helpful.

Jesus affirmed the divine ideal of marriage as a loving monogamous life-long union of a man and woman in an interdependent healthy family relationship.  He denounced divorces for selfish immoral reasons.  He affirmed the Mosaic bill of divorce explaining both the universal and culturally specific reasons for Moses being inspired to legislate such. 

Marriage is not only a family issue under personal/domestic authority, but it is also a legal issue under civil authority.  To be "bound by law" means to be legally married.  Couples that are not legally married (fornication) do not need a bill of divorce to break the relationship for it is illegal and immoral to begin with.  Fornication = immoral/illegal relationships like that of Herod and Herodias, and the woman at the well who was living with a man but not married to him. 

Remarriage is not the problem; hardness of heart is the primary issue that we need to guard against, fight, and overcome. 

[elijah_101]

Sherman Nobles 

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness[/b], and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. Jude 1:4 2 Peter 2:18

No were in the Bible Does God says, that Man Marries you, When you Come one God Joins you Togather, God Marries you Not man,

Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.


Marriage is Only Death do you Part, as Long as Your Wife or Husband is Alive and you Marrie Another, You Commit Adultery - Matt 5:32 - Matt 19:9 - Mark 10:11 - Luke 16:18

Jesus except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Even for Fornication, and He goes out And Marries another, He Commits Adultery

And who ever Marries his Wife he Put Away Commits Adultery

And if his Wife Marries another she Commits Adultery Mark 10:12-

Jesus Fixed it so there is No Way OUT

So there is No Terms , For Remarriage except Death. You cannot Break Gods Law, This is Why Jesus said what God Joined Togather let not man Put asunder - Matt 19:6

Romans 7:2 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress:

but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

[chosenone]

I wish that you would answer any questions put to you rather than keep coming back with the same verses over and over again. Why can you not engage in some sort of conversation?
I cant understand why you cannot see that iF YOUR SPOUSE COMMITTS ADULTERY YOU CAN DIVORCE AND REMARRY. jESUS SAYS THAT YOU COMMITT ADULTERY BY REMARRYING .........EXCEPT IT BE FOR FORNICATION. it is so clear, and everyone agrees that this is the reason Jesus gives which enables anyone to divorce and remarry.
Unless you can be human and stop acting like a stuck record, theres no point in having any sort of further answers really. I really feel that you have a problem with this, and I also think that what is causing it is what is in your own life. By refusing to answer any questions you only confirm this to my mind. I think it is very sad that you are so blind on this one subject that you feel that you must keep on and on saying the same thing over and over, just to make some here feel frustrated with you. Keep these views to yourself. you can live by them if you choose not to see what Jesus was saying but dont try to inflict your predjuces on to others. 

[elijah_101]

Jesus does not say you can Remarrie, Jesus Said what God Joined togather let not Man Put Asunder Matt 19:6

That is not Scripture nor the Word of God, You cannot Change Gods Word, Jesus spoke the Word, and the Word is God

Jesus Clearly Says that

Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication-Matt 19:9

and shall marry another, committeth adultery:-Matt 19:9

Now No were  does Jesus say you Can Remarrie , He says if you Marrie Another YOU commit ADULTERY

And who Ever Marries them that is Put Away Commits Adultery


Mark 10:11-And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her

And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Luke 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery

whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

ONLY DEATH CAN DO YOU PART, GOD JOINES YOU TOGATHER, AND YOU CANNOT BREAK THE BOND, ONLY DEATH

Romans 7:2 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress:

but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

[chosenone]

Its pointless carrying on with this when you are so stuck on exactly the same groove and wont even answer anything you are asked.
How come you are the only person I have ever heard about who says that you cannot divorce and remarry even if your partner is unfaithful? Most others, even if they are against divorce agree that it is always allowed if adultery is involved. Why can you not see this?
Anyway it is pointless you carrying on typing the very same verses out over and over and over again, when your interpretation of them is wrong. I am very sorry of you are stuck in a bad marriage as I suspect you are but please dont take your bitterness out on the rest of us.  Maybe you should Praise God for those of us who do have wonderful blessed Godly marriages  and not try to make them seem sinful when they are not. I feel sorry for you I really do.

[Hehealedme]

I would appreciate some explanations for these verses...










King James Version
Romans Chapter 7

No law has power over a man after his death
1  Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Yet the law is not sin
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.













Romans 7 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

   

Romans 7
An Illustration From Marriage
1Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.
4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Struggling With Sin
7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." 8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
      So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

[Sherman Nobles]

Sherman Nobles 

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness[/b], and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. Jude 1:4 2 Peter 2:18

elijah_101, if you intend to personally attack me by quoting such verses, apparently in reference to me, please do so openly, not just implying such.  If you did not intend for such to reference me, please clear that up.  I've found that people who attack others in such a manner do so because their character is weak and their argument is weak.  

No were in the Bible Does God says, that Man Marries you, When you Come one God Joins you Togather, God Marries you Not man,

Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Gen. 2:25 refers to creation, not marriage.  The first "law" of marriage is,  2:24 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."  Notice that the active agent in marriage is the man.  He chooses to leave his father and mother and marry a wife creating a new family.  It does not say that God married them, but that the man married the woman.  Furthermore, the phrase "one flesh" was an idiomatic phrase simply referencing "family"; it does not in any way imply that when a couple marries they are some how metaphysically melded into one new being.  When a couple marries, they create a new "family", "become one flesh".  Over-spiritualizing marriage doesn't do anyone any good.  

Of course, Jesus said "What God has joined together let not man put assunder."  What does "what God join together" mean except that there are relationships that God has not joined together.  In fact, there are relationships that God has forbidden through Moses, for example, homosexual relationships, a man marrying a woman and her daughter, a man marrying two sisters, the marriage of brother and sister, or brother and half sister, an uncle or an aunt, etc.  

Also note that the command to not separate unions recognized by God implies that even those run the risk of being broken apart by man's effort.  Why did God command us to not murder?  Because murder is possible, not impossible.  Why did Jesus command us not to separate what God has joined together?  Because divorce is possible, not impossible, even marriages recognized by God run the risk of being torn apart by man's effort.

As for the rest of your post, you're welcome to make all the assertions you desire; but your interpretation of scripture, imo, does not line up with the context of those passages.  For example, Rom.7.2 speaks of being "bound by law" for life.  The passage is not about marriage, but is about covenants.  Marriage in that passage is a metaphor explaining that covenants end at death.  Interpreting the passage to say more than that is to misinterpret the passage.  Also note that it says, "bound by law".  The word "law" is a general term refering to the customs and laws of that culture.  And of course, in that culture, as in ours marriages were breakable.

Which does one treat with more honor and respect, a priceless solid gold ancient artifact, or a priceless ancient Fragile China vase?  The China vase of course!  Why?  Because it is "fragile"!  In like manner, we need to recognize that marriage is breakable through man's effort and protect it accordingly.  The errant doctrine that marriage is indissoluble is, well, illusionary and doesn't help anyone have a healthy lasting marriage.

[elijah_101]

I am Not personally attack you

These are not my Words, but the Word of God, In Stead of Talking Your Self, You Shold Use Scripture to Back up what you Say

Mans Law , And Gods Law, Are not the Same, Can Man Save you?

God Said if you put away your Wife or Husband and Marrie Another you Commit Adultery. Matt 19:9 -  Mark 10:11 - Luke 16:18 - Romans 7:2


Marriage is Death do Part. Not Divorce and Remarry

You Cannot seek to Justify your Selves in the Eyes of God.

And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Gen 2:22-25

God Married them, Not man, were is the Man, Were did God Ordain Man? When you come One God Marries you

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 1:20-21

[Sherman Nobles]

I am Not personally attack you

Good. That's why I asked.

These are not my Words, but the Word of God, In Stead of Talking Your Self, You Shold Use Scripture to Back up what you Say

If you'll notice, I'm speaking of the same scriptures you are, I just understand them differently based on my understanding of the context (literary, historical, cultural, social, and authorial).  On the other hand, you quote them out of context, interpreting them to mean something that is contrary to what they mean in context.

Mans Law , And Gods Law, Are not the Same, Can Man Save you?

Of course, man's law is not God's law, and yet God has given civil authority its place and role. To deny such is unrealistic.  Can man save you, of course not.

God Said if you put away your Wife or Husband and Marrie Another you Commit Adultery. Matt 19:9 -  Mark 10:11 - Luke 16:18 - Romans 7:2

If you'll study a little you'll find that the word "apoluo" ("put away" KJV) can mean either "divorce" or "seperation" with seperation meaning the couple is still legally married by Jewish law.  According to Jewish Law if a man expells his wife without giving her a bill of divorce, she was still legally married to him and if she did marry another man or was given in marriage to another man, she and the man she married committed adultery and their marriage was not legal.  A biblical example of such is David and Michal.   

Marriage is Death do Part. Not Divorce and Remarry

First, your statement doesn't make sence.  I think you're trying to say that you believe Death breaks a marriage union, but divorce doesn't.  If that's what you believe, then you completely disregard what scripture says.  Jesus said, "Let not man tear apart what God has joined together."  The "let not" in that statement in the Greek (an even in the English) is not an absolute denial as in "cannot" but is a directive as in "should not".   Thus, Jesus himself recognize that even marriages joined together by God ran the risk of being broken apart by man's effort.  Building your doctrine around the illusion of marriage being unbreakable is living in fantacy.  Divorce breaks the marriage union.  In fact, Deut.24:1-4 forbids a man remarrying a woman he has previously divorced if she has married another man.  In fact, the purpose of the bill of divorce was to enable an expelled woman to marry again without fear of her ex-husband later reclaiming her.  Studying the OT can really help one understand the NT especially considering Jesus specifically said he fully endorsed the Law and the Prophets. 

You Cannot seek to Justify your Selves in the Eyes of God.

Who's seeking to "Justify" themselves; I've never been divorced, and neither has my wife.  We are happily married and plan to grow old and die together should the Lord tarry.  I'm simply explaining to you and others on this board why I've come to believe the traditional doctrine that you espouse is a doctrine of men which is contrary to the biblical text.  You're more than welcome to continue espousing the traditional doctrine if you wish to, but I encourage you to do some research into basic principles of how to interpret the bible correctly. 
[/quote]

And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Gen 2:22-25

God Married them, Not man, were is the Man, Were did God Ordain Man? When you come One God Marries you

"a man shall leave...."  The man was/is the active agent in marriage, not God.  God created, but man marries. 

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 1:20-21

Yes, very true, and so I encourage you to study scripture so that you can correctly interpret it and not make it say either more, less, or even something completely different than what the author meant.   

[elijah_101]

By the TIme you get Done with Gods Word, Giving all the definitions, To Change it around to make it fit what you feel right.

Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Mark 7:13

Jesus says you cant Marrie Agin after you are Divorced, You say you can

When God Married Adam and Eve, You think Man did it. What God Joined Togather let not Man Put asunder ,

Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Mark 7:13


You Think God Ordaned Man to Marrie you

No were in the Bible, Does God Ordain Man , to marrie You.

God said, if the WOmen Marries wile her Husband is Alive, she will be Called an Adulteress, Romans 7:2


You say it dont Mean that, its not So

God Says , If you Marrie Agin wile the other is alive you commit Adultery,Matt 19:9 -  Mark 10:11 - Luke 16:18

Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Mark 7:13

Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:

of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:19-21

So Tell me Who is True, You or God?

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written
Romans 3:4

[chosenone]

Thats quite funny eljah as YOU are the one who twists scripture trying to make it mean what you want it to mean to meet your own private feelings on this matter, but you miss bits out like "except fot sexual immorality", and totally twist the stroy of the women at the well.
Even I am amazed as to how you managed to take what Jesus said in that story as to mean something that is clearly isnt saying, that took the biscuit it really did.  It has shown me that some will never be able to TRULY be open to what God is actually saying and will ALWAYS have a closed off mind to the truth.
Are you ever ever ever going to actually answer any questions that are asked of you, or are you going to carry on coming accross with angry sounding words and the seeming innability to see the full teaching and not only the parts that you choose to see. It would be nice to know the REAL you that must surely be out there somewhere, the thinking feeling laughing waking talking you, and not just a  narrow slightly angry part of you, who feels that they must not only feel very bitter about the subject of anyone divorcing and remarrying themselves but has to inflict their narrow mindedness onto the rest of us. maybe you could and should keep it to yourself in future and allow us access to the you behind all of this.
There must be someone there, why come on these forums if you are going to hide behind all of these constant spouting of the same old verses all over again., thinking that by doing this you will convince us of what you think you are saying when we wont because you are wrong on much of what you say.

hello is the REAL Elijah there, cos I would really like to meet him and understand what makes him tick!!!!!!!i

Hey I have just had another thought, maybe it was your parents who got divorced and not my original serario that hasl left you biased and slightly bitter.

[Sherman Nobles]

By the TIme you get Done with Gods Word, Giving all the definitions, To Change it around to make it fit what you feel right.

Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Mark 7:13

I'm curious, does speaking/writing in Old English (ye) help you fill more spiritual?    

Like I've noted before, you're more than welcome to disregard any information that I present and continue to espouse the traditional doctrine.  But of course, the traditional doctrine is based on ignorance of both the Jewish culture of the first century and the literary context of the passages often quoted.

Jesus says you cant Marrie Agin after you are Divorced, You say you can

When God Married Adam and Eve, You think Man did it. What God Joined Togather let not Man Put asunder ,

Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Mark 7:13

You Think God Ordaned Man to Marrie you

No were in the Bible, Does God Ordain Man , to marrie You.

God said, if the WOmen Marries wile her Husband is Alive, she will be Called an Adulteress, Romans 7:2

You say it dont Mean that, its not So

God Says , If you Marrie Agin wile the other is alive you commit Adultery,Matt 19:9 -  Mark 10:11 - Luke 16:18

Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Mark 7:13

Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:

of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:19-21

So Tell me Who is True, You or God?

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written
Romans 3:4

Well elijah_101, it seems as if we've come to the end of our discussion.  You're welcome to continue believing the errant traditional doctrine if you wish, though scripture does not support such.  Or you're welcome to check out the information I and others present and rethink your beliefs.  

If you'll notice, Paul also quotes Jesus in 1 Cor. 7:10-11.  He quotes Jesus telling a woman separated "chorizo" from her husband to either remain living single or be restored to her husband.  However, the man who is divorced "aphiemi" from his wife is not told to remain unmarried or be restored to his wife.  Have you ever wondered why Jesus told the woman to remain single, but not the man?  It's because according to Jewish civil law a woman who was only separated from her husband could not legally marry another man; if she did, she and the man that married her were committing adultery.  On the other hand, considering polygamy was legal, a man could expell one wife without giving her a bill of divorce and still legally marry another woman.

Actually, this is still a problem in Jewish communities of faith.  A woman who is "separated" from her husband but who has not been given a bill of divorce is called an agunah, a bound woman.  You're more than welcome to check out what I've written, or continue to ignore what I've shared and continue espousing the errant traditional doctrine.  

[Sherman Nobles]

chosenone,

Don't be discouraged or upset.  Traditions that are based on misinterpretations of scripture are very had to break in most people.  Tradition is like the hard ground in the parable of the sower.  The hard ground are paths that are trampled down to where the ground is so hardened it will not recieve any seed.  When we hear things that are different than what we've been taught to believe, we quickly reject/disregard such information. 

Most people who espouse the traditional doctrine of marriage do so because that's what they've been taught and no amount of information to the contrary will challenge their beliefs.  And sadly to say, we all have traditions that are contrary to scripture but we don't realize that they are errant traditions. 

Thankfully, if we'll seek the Lord in humility, He'll bust up the hard ground of our hearts through prayer and worship, prepping our hearts so that we can recieve His Word of Truth.  It also helps to interact with believers who understand scripture very differently than we do.  We are exposed to information and interpretations of scripture that we would otherwise miss out on. 

Anyhow, be encouraged and remember, it's best to first seek to understand and then to be understood!

Blessings,
Sherman

[chosenone]

chosenone,

Don't be discouraged or upset.  Traditions that are based on misinterpretations of scripture are very had to break in most people.  Tradition is like the hard ground in the parable of the sower.  The hard ground are paths that are trampled down to where the ground is so hardened it will not recieve any seed.  When we hear things that are different than what we've been taught to believe, we quickly reject/disregard such information. 

Most people who espouse the traditional doctrine of marriage do so because that's what they've been taught and no amount of information to the contrary will challenge their beliefs.  And sadly to say, we all have traditions that are contrary to scripture but we don't realize that they are errant traditions. 

Thankfully, if we'll seek the Lord in humility, He'll bust up the hard ground of our hearts through prayer and worship, prepping our hearts so that we can recieve His Word of Truth.  It also helps to interact with believers who understand scripture very differently than we do.  We are exposed to information and interpretations of scripture that we would otherwise miss out on. 

Anyhow, be encouraged and remember, it's best to first seek to understand and then to be understood!

Blessings,
Sherman

Thank you Sherman
I am not discouraged in a personal way, becuase I know that i am following Gods path for my life and that I am in a very blessed and  Godly marriage, but I feel frustrated that some people just cannot see what is in front of their eyes due to their own life problems and hurts and their own predjuces. I actually feel SORRY for this guy, he is so bound up and does not sound like a happy person at all and that is very sad. I woud love to reach the real him, and get him to open up but that may never happen.
Also sometimes I am like a terrier with a bone, ie I dont want to give it up (must be cos I am English and have the British bulldog spirit of never giving up even against impossible odds)


However I think I will now unless Elijah comes back on a different tack entirely.
God Bless

[Sherman Nobles]

I've found that trying to analyze people's motives for believing as they do is almost impossible.  Shoot, I don't even understand my motives fully.  Who can know the heart of a person except the Lord! 

The traditional doctrine has been so hammered into people that it's almost impossible for them to understand scripture differently than what they've been taught.  The traditional doctrine really is a web of deceit with multiple interconnecting and reinforcing errant concepts and false beliefs.  The traditional doctrine itself is the result of various factors in the Gentile branch of the church including 1) a misunderstanding of what Jesus said, 2) a general disinterest and even disrespect for the OT and Jewish culture of the 1st Century (anti-Semitism), 3) Platonic philosophy endeavoring to suppress emotions/passion and elevate reason, and 4) Gnostic and especially Manichean dualism that believed everything physical was evil and everything spiritual was good (the highest evil being procreation, taking what is spiritual (good) and clothing it in flesh (evil)). 

Anyhow, few who embrace the traditional doctrine will even attempt to understand what Jesus said through the lens of a 1st Century Jew.  Rather, they take the uninformed approach of just quoting out of context what Jesus said, interpreting it to mean something that would have been completely foolish to a 1st Century Jew.  They don't take into consideration the "No-fault" (Any-matter) divorce debate of the Pharisees.  They don't even consider why Moses was inspired by God to legislate the bill of divorce.  They even errantly believe that Jesus disagreed with Moses intending to repudiate the bill of divorce even though He specifically said that He fully endorsed the Mosaic Law, every letter of it! 

Frankly, the traditional doctrine is the result of ignorance and arrogance, ignorance of the Jewish culture and arrogance thinking we Gentiles have a better understanding of God than the Jews ever did. 

[chosenone]

I've found that trying to analyze people's motives for believing as they do is almost impossible.  Shoot, I don't even understand my motives fully.  Who can know the heart of a person except the Lord! 

The traditional doctrine has been so hammered into people that it's almost impossible for them to understand scripture differently than what they've been taught.  The traditional doctrine really is a web of deceit with multiple interconnecting and reinforcing errant concepts and false beliefs.  The traditional doctrine itself is the result of various factors in the Gentile branch of the church including 1) a misunderstanding of what Jesus said, 2) a general disinterest and even disrespect for the OT and Jewish culture of the 1st Century (anti-Semitism), 3) Platonic philosophy endeavoring to suppress emotions/passion and elevate reason, and 4) Gnostic and especially Manichean dualism that believed everything physical was evil and everything spiritual was good (the highest evil being procreation, taking what is spiritual (good) and clothing it in flesh (evil)). 

Anyhow, few who embrace the traditional doctrine will even attempt to understand what Jesus said through the lens of a 1st Century Jew.  Rather, they take the uninformed approach of just quoting out of context what Jesus said, interpreting it to mean something that would have been completely foolish to a 1st Century Jew.  They don't take into consideration the "No-fault" (Any-matter) divorce debate of the Pharisees.  They don't even consider why Moses was inspired by God to legislate the bill of divorce.  They even errantly believe that Jesus disagreed with Moses intending to repudiate the bill of divorce even though He specifically said that He fully endorsed the Mosaic Law, every letter of it! 

Frankly, the traditional doctrine is the result of ignorance and arrogance, ignorance of the Jewish culture and arrogance thinking we Gentiles have a better understanding of God than the Jews ever did. 

Thanks Sherman
I do agree although even those who believe similar things to elijah, do actually agree that Jesus gave us an exclusion clause for adultery to enable anyone who cannot remain married to someone who does this to be free. however he cannt even see this so there is no where to go now.
I am quite an intuituve person and can pick things up about people even just from these forums, but of course I may be wrong in this case but I dont think so.
I would still like to get to know elijah the person though(I do like a challenge), just to be able to get to know him as he really is, the person behind the posts so to speak.So theres a challenge to you elijah, will you respond?please not by quoting verses but by being REAL, and maybe a little vulnerable.?

[elijah_101]

For do I now persuade men, or God?

or do I seek to please men?

for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

And my speech and my preaching

was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

By the word of truth by the power of God by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,

In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight, Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus
Gal 1:10-1Cor2:4-Col1:28

[chosenone]

For do I now persuade men, or God?

or do I seek to please men?

for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

And my speech and my preaching

was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

By the word of truth by the power of God by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,

In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight, Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus
Gal 1:10-1Cor2:4-Col1:28