Christians ....on Probation

[BornToReign]

For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is no his own.
Otherwise He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
And inasmuch as it is appointed to men to die once and after comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. Heb.9:24-28

By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God.

For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, "This is the covenant I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws on their heart, and on their mind I will write them, He then says, "And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."

Now where there is forgiveness of these things there is no longer any offering for sin. Rom.10

[Corbley]

But there is no probation paper on us in any way and the word of God does not imply that there is.

Have you ever studied what Jesus Christ is doing right now, today....according to the OT Sanctuary services ?

3am  You can NEVER be good enough...You can not be rightous.  We will always fall short.
We do the best we can do and when we do sin...repent and try to avoid that sin again.

SO...you're telling me to reject what Jesus Christ said ?

Sorry, can't do that.

No cling to what Christ said:
No one come to the Father but by me
There is None Rightious, no not one

For God So loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever, believes in him, Shall not perish but have everlasting life.

he does not add....And you have to do good things, to be saved.
The good works we do are only evidence of Christ with-in us...They are not part of salvation

[3AM]

[For God So loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever, believes in him, Shall not perish but have everlasting life.

he does not add....And you have to do good things, to be saved.
The good works we do are only evidence of Christ with-in us...They are not part of salvation

Works, only are the proof that one has Salvation.

Just as the keeping of ALL God's commandments are proof, that a person has Jesus Christ working in their lives.

We don't keep the commandments to be saved....we keep them because we are Saved.

[Corbley]

[For God So loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever, believes in him, Shall not perish but have everlasting life.

he does not add....And you have to do good things, to be saved.
The good works we do are only evidence of Christ with-in us...They are not part of salvation

Works, only are the proof that one has Salvation.

Just as the keeping of ALL God's commandments are proof, that a person has Jesus Christ working in their lives.

We don't keep the commandments to be saved....we keep them because we are Saved.

That is exactly what I have been saying

[3AM]

[For God So loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever, believes in him, Shall not perish but have everlasting life.

he does not add....And you have to do good things, to be saved.
The good works we do are only evidence of Christ with-in us...They are not part of salvation

Works, only are the proof that one has Salvation.

Just as the keeping of ALL God's commandments are proof, that a person has Jesus Christ working in their lives.

We don't keep the commandments to be saved....we keep them because we are Saved.

That is exactly what I have been saying

I'm glad we are on the same page, my friend.

[3AM]

Christians, on probation....Adam & Eve....were given another chance.

Isn't that what probation is....to be given another chance, to do better ?

[3AM]

Christians, on probation....Adam & Eve....were given another chance.

Isn't that what probation is....to be given another chance, to do better ?

Does anyone disagree with that ?

[fanuvmxpx]

Christians, on probation....Adam & Eve....were given another chance.

Isn't that what probation is....to be given another chance, to do better ?

Does anyone disagree with that ?

Only slightly. Probation is to be given another chance to "not fail"...not suggesting that you "do the opposite of fail". Would someone on probation for theft be obligated to give money to people, or simply not to take it from others?

[HRoberson]

The entire legal argument is a tool used by Paul and other writers to discourse in language understood by their audience.

No one has ever been separated from God solely or primarily from breaking a law.

Anyone who has been separated from God has had that happen because they didn't live like they were made to live. Essentially, the lived Me-centered rather than Other-centered.

You know you have sinned because there is an objective law by which you can tell you've blown it. But it isn't and has never been the breaking of the law that messed you up. You were messed up first, and then broke the law.

Therefore, no one is a criminal (unless you just want to beat yourself up), and no one is on probation. The sacrifice of Jesus speaks for all people, and our God, being an Other-centered God, can live with our messing up because He loves us. We either seek God (imperfectly) or we don't. We're either in relationship with God or we don't. God, the Son, and the Spirit either abide with us or they don't.

There is no question, no probation, no parole, no command to never break another rule, or consistently have pure thoughts.

We are to grow in the direction of pure thoughts and right behavior, but we need not perfect either of them because Jesus and God already accept us if we open ourselves to them.

[3AM]

The entire legal argument is a tool used by Paul and other writers to discourse in language understood by their audience.

No one has ever been separated from God solely or primarily from breaking a law.

Too bad Adam  & Eve didn't know that.

Too bad Jesus Christ didn't know that either, ohter wise Jesus would not have said: "My God, My God, Why has thou forsaken me"?

Because the Bible has this to say:

Isaiah   59:2   But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear. 

[Bonnie]

The entire legal argument is a tool used by Paul and other writers to discourse in language understood by their audience.

No one has ever been separated from God solely or primarily from breaking a law.

Too bad Adam  & Eve didn't know that.

Too bad Jesus Christ didn't know that either, ohter wise Jesus would not have said: "My God, My God, Why has thou forsaken me"?

Because the Bible has this to say:

Isaiah   59:2   But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear. 

[HRoberson]

The entire legal argument is a tool used by Paul and other writers to discourse in language understood by their audience.

No one has ever been separated from God solely or primarily from breaking a law.

Too bad Adam  & Eve didn't know that.

Too bad Jesus Christ didn't know that either, ohter wise Jesus would not have said: "My God, My God, Why has thou forsaken me"?

Because the Bible has this to say:

Isaiah   59:2   But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear. 

I didn't say you couldn't sin.

I said the law was a tool to illustrate that you had.

Jesus said something like "the guy that hates in his heart is guilty of murder."

Why would he say that?

Because, it is our hearts, the way we see others, the way we live - in our beings - that matters; the murder is simply an expression of what is in our hearts. We are not separated from God because of some overt behavior, but because we do not live as He made us to live.

[Serenity432001]

The entire legal argument is a tool used by Paul and other writers to discourse in language understood by their audience.

No one has ever been separated from God solely or primarily from breaking a law.

Too bad Adam  & Eve didn't know that.

Too bad Jesus Christ didn't know that either, ohter wise Jesus would not have said: "My God, My God, Why has thou forsaken me"?

Because the Bible has this to say:

Isaiah   59:2   But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear. 

I didn't say you couldn't sin.

I said the law was a tool to illustrate that you had.

Jesus said something like "the guy that hates in his heart is guilty of murder."

Why would he say that?

Because, it is our hearts, the way we see others, the way we live - in our beings - that matters; the murder is simply an expression of what is in our hearts.

Good point HR.   Its why when folks are so tied to the 10 commandments I feel they are missing the point.  It is a heart condition.  Some feel they are just fine as long as one of the 10 aren't broken but seem to forget Jesus said if you hate or lust you are just as guilty. 

[HRoberson]

Christians, on probation....Adam & Eve....were given another chance.

Isn't that what probation is....to be given another chance, to do better ?

Does anyone disagree with that ?

As someone has said, slightly.

The premise though, that there is "a second chance," is itself a limited concept. The Gospel is not that you have a second chance, but that God wants you to live with Him and is willing to overlook not only your past living for self, but also your future living for self (intermittently) through the sacrifice of Jesus who demonstrated perfect fidelity to God.

[HRoberson]

Perhaps this is part of my problem.....

....probation also means you're still under judgment.

Which is incorrect from a Christian perspective.

[Bonnie]

Perhaps this is part of my problem.....

....probation also means you're still under judgment.

Which is incorrect from a Christian perspective.

Judgment hasn't come to us yet, HB, but in a sense we are judged every day.  Am I right that you believe in OSAS?
God bless

[Bonnie]

The entire legal argument is a tool used by Paul and other writers to discourse in language understood by their audience.

No one has ever been separated from God solely or primarily from breaking a law.

Too bad Adam  & Eve didn't know that.

Too bad Jesus Christ didn't know that either, ohter wise Jesus would not have said: "My God, My God, Why has thou forsaken me"?

Because the Bible has this to say:

Isaiah   59:2   But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear. 

I didn't say you couldn't sin.

I said the law was a tool to illustrate that you had.

Jesus said something like "the guy that hates in his heart is guilty of murder."

Why would he say that?

Because, it is our hearts, the way we see others, the way we live - in our beings - that matters; the murder is simply an expression of what is in our hearts.

Good point HR.   Its why when folks are so tied to the 10 commandments I feel they are missing the point.  It is a heart condition.  Some feel they are just fine as long as one of the 10 aren't broken but seem to forget Jesus said if you hate or lust you are just as guilty. 

I wonder who feels that way, Lisa.  The ten are the easy part.

[HRoberson]

Perhaps this is part of my problem.....

....probation also means you're still under judgment.

Which is incorrect from a Christian perspective.

Judgment hasn't come to us yet,

Then the whole idea of probation is erroneous from the get go.

Am I right that you believe in OSAS?
God bless

You would be incorrect.

[llewksgood]

I have read what has been said, thought about the title of this discussion, and come to the conclusion that it is incorrect. Children that are born into a family cannot be put on probation. Now, what I am trying to understand is what the poster was trying to say.

[3AM]

Its why when folks are so tied to the 10 commandments I feel they are missing the point.  It is a heart condition.  Some feel they are just fine as long as one of the 10 aren't broken but seem to forget Jesus said if you hate or lust you are just as guilty. 

The 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) are there to check your progress, as a Christian.

How else would a person know where are in their Christian walk with Christ, if they had no measuring guild ?

Faith, can only be measured by a person's works.

As the Bible says: "By their fruits shall you know them".

[Tantor]

Its why when folks are so tied to the 10 commandments I feel they are missing the point.  It is a heart condition.  Some feel they are just fine as long as one of the 10 aren't broken but seem to forget Jesus said if you hate or lust you are just as guilty. 

The 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) are there to check your progress, as a Christian.

How else would a person know where are in their Christian walk with Christ, if they had no measuring guild ?

Faith, can only be measured by a person's works.

As the Bible says: "By their fruits shall you know them".

Yet for some odd reason.. Christ decided to not reiterate the 10 commandments and summarize them instead.

Curious...

[3AM]

Yet for some odd reason.. Christ decided to not reiterate the 10 commandments and summarize them instead.

Curious...

God expects that a Christian will study the OT also, as it also is the word of God.

[Tantor]

Yet for some odd reason.. Christ decided to not reiterate the 10 commandments and summarize them instead.

Curious...

God expects that a Christian will study the OT also, as it also is the word of God.

The Word of God is Jesus.. he supersedes all.

Besides, a non gentile trying to study the OT without the correct background is futile... I was raised reading the bible and had a lot of preconceived ideas that I thought were correct about the Old Testament until I went to college and had a converted Jewish professor that taught the Old Testament..  what I learned is that most of Christendom had absolutely no clue at all what the Old Testament is all about.

I would recommend reading this book before you even pick up the Bible and try and read the Old Testament because it sets the cultural, economic and political stage so well.

http://www.amazon.com/History-Israel-John-Bright/dp/0664220681

[fanuvmxpx]

Its why when folks are so tied to the 10 commandments I feel they are missing the point.  It is a heart condition.  Some feel they are just fine as long as one of the 10 aren't broken but seem to forget Jesus said if you hate or lust you are just as guilty. 

The 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) are there to check your progress, as a Christian.

How else would a person know where are in their Christian walk with Christ, if they had no measuring guild ?

Faith, can only be measured by a person's works.

As the Bible says: "By their fruits shall you know them".

After Christ died, the Holy Spirit is our excellent measuring guide. I believe the OT & NT are both relevant for study, but I also believe the following principles:

1. The Law of the OT & NT will judge the non-believer, as they are not covered by the blood
2. The Law of the OT & NT are both relevant as guides to the born-again believer
3. Jesus became the "New Law" when I became a born-again believer. He died for me and now I am under His Law, which does encompass, yet supersedes, the laws of the OT & NT. God is the final Judge, not the Bible.
4. Abiding by the Laws of the OT & NT cannot save men, only Christ can
5. Those who are born-again, will naturally move forward (past) the Laws of Old, towards Jesus their New Law.

Whether or not I can sin a little, sin a lot, or not sin at all...I will strive daily to not sin. If, by striving daily to not sin, I am judged for eternity...I deserve no less...it is only by God's grace that we have a Hope. If I am to be judged for eternity, I will continue to help others in need, as this is the heart of Christ. He deserves All of me.