Antichrist, Babylon of Rev.13,17-18 explain most history & 9/11

[godislove85]

Mystery Babylon of Revelation 17-18, Isaiah 13-14, 47-48; Jeremiah 50-51; etc. is America & New York City, and there are many cities & nations which God made fit the description of Babylon to foreshadow the fall of America & NYC.

Astoundingly, there are approximately forty cities on "seven hills" (Rev. 17:9), & many of them exceedingly resemble "Babylon the great whore" of Revelation 17-18 of whose wine all the nations drink, which is described as both a "woman" & "the great city," and who commits adultery against God, as opposed to the bride of Christ mentioned immediately afterward in Rev. 19! No wonder 17:9 calls special attention to the fact that Babylon is on seven hills by saying "here is the mind that has wisdom." These many cities on seven hills include (which are all discussed thoroughly on my website):

-the source & headquarters of the anti-Christ world religions including but not limited to Judaism, Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Islam, Buddhism, & Hinduism: Jerusalem, Rome where Vatican City is located and which ruled the Roman Empire before it fell, Constantinople/Byzantium/Istanbul which ruled the Byzantine Empire before it fell & Moscow which ruled the Soviet Union before it fell, Mecca in Saudi Arabia the pilgrimage city of Islam, Macau in China where about 93% of the population is Buddhist & which is the home of the Chinese Buddhist Communities Project "to make an important contribution to the cause of interreligious dialogue worldwide" & of the "Centre of Buddhist Studies," and Tirumala in India which is home to a Hindu temple "visited by about 60,000 people daily, making it the second most visited holy place after the Vatican in Rome"
---Catholicism & Orthodoxy have a "woman" associated with them: Virgin Mary also called "the Queen of Heaven" & "Madonna," who exceedingly resembles the "Queen of Heaven" & Queen of Babylon Semiramis who too was worshipped together with her son Tammuz who resembles Jesus in many uncommon ways

-Hollywood (sometimes called "Hollywood Babylon"), whose "Hollywood Hills" has seven hills, and which is home to many women like Madonna & Britney Spears who resemble the great harlot of whose wine "all the nations drink"
-Seattle the most irreligious city in the U.S., San Francisco (called "Babylon by the Bay") where the Church of Satan was founded in 1966, & Melbourne in Australia

New York City (a.k.a. "Gotham" or "town of fools": the city where Batman [open in new window Part Three of Table of Contents] a type of the Antichrist "king of Babylon" [Is. 14:14] rules & who originally roamed NYC): Manhattan means "island of many hills" (due to its many hills such as "Murray Hill") as well as "whiskey" (& Babylon the great whore is said in 17:2 to make the nations "drunk"!)
---apparently only town in the world officially called Babylon is in Long Island, New York, in the suburbs of New York City, which is the home of the Amityville Horror, the most famous of all haunted places as Babylon the Great which is "the habitation of devils" [Rev. 18:2](Interview with Amityville House owner)AmityvilleHorrorTruth!!!)
---the headquarters of the worldwide Church of Satan from 2001-present, formerly centered in San Francisco "the city on seven hills"!!! and of the United Nations which "reigneth over the kings of the Earth" (17:18)
---There are only seven neighborhoods with the word "hill" in EACH of these boroughs of New York City: Manhattan, Staten Island, Queens, Brooklyn, as Mystery Babylon sits on "seven hills"
---Furthermore, there are many echoes of 9/11 in the Bible in connection with Babylon: for instance, all the merchants of the world weep in Revelation 18 (which is 9x2) beginning in verse 11 because Babylon the/a center of world trade has "fallen"; and the destruction of the Tower of Babylon at a time when there is a global language like English is today is mentioned only in the first 9 verses of Genesis 11.
---Furthermore, there are many uncommon resemblances between the Statue of "Liberty Enlightening the World" & both Jesus "the light of the world" (as Satan says "I will be like the most High" in Is. 14:14) and the whore of Babylon. (for much more on 9/11 in the Bible, see below, the end of the Table of Contents, & Part Three; this website argues that NYC is Babylon the Great)

[sopranette]

Vilifying Catholics is the one thing that saddens me most about this board in general.

love,

Sopranette

[broach972]

Vilifying Catholics is the one thing that saddens me most about this board in general.

love,

Sopranette

I am actually getting use to it.  As a Catholic, I just have to ignore or overlook the rubbish and ignorance that seems to dominate some of the threads.

[godislove85]

Friends, Catholic Vatican City (along with the many other cities on seven hills which Rev. 17-18 also refers to) PERFECTLY fits every detail of Rev. 17-18, especially in the anti-christ doctrine it teaches which conflicts with the Bible and is exceedingly deceptive because mixed with truth.    As Satan says "I will be like the Most High" (Is. 14:14), so has the Virgin Mary been presented to be a replicate of Jesus, for the Catholic & Orthodox churches declare her to have been like Jesus "immaculately conceived" without sin (although she says in Luke 1:47 that she needs Jesus as her "savior" just like all other humans), to have been a "perpetual virgin" (although it says in the Bible in Matt. 13:55 for instance that she had sex with Joseph & had other children after Jesus was born), and to be the means by which "the whole human race was saved" although God says "I will not share My glory with another".  FURTHERMORE, JESUS TELLS US IN LUKE 18 TO PRAY TO GOD "THE JUDGE" "AT ALL TIMES," WHICH A PERSON CANNOT DO IF HE IS PRAYING TO MARY.  WE NEED TO SEE GOD ALONE AS THE SOURCE OF ALL GOOD IN ORDER TO FULFILL THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT OF LOVING HIM WITH ALL OF OUR HEART & MIND.  God shows great indignation in Jeremiah 44 when people expect good to come from the "Queen of Heaven" (paganized Mary's & the ancient Queen of Babylon [who resembles her]'s title) rather than God.  I show on my website that throughout world history, Satan "who deceiveth the whole world" (Rev. 12:9) has diverted worship from Jesus by causing people to resemble Jesus in extremely numerous & uncommon ways, such as "virgin-born" Buddha, the hindu god Krishna (Crishna) who is the incarnation of the second person of the Hindu "trinity", Achilles the son of a god-dess & Odysseus, Quetzacoatl the Mormon Jesus, Julius Caesar, etc. ad nauseam.  PLEASE BEWARE "SATAN, WHO DECEIVETH THE WHOLE WORLD." (Rev. 12:9)

Love,
George

[N8te720]

The seven hills are the same as the seven heads which 17:9 makes clear. They go from 7 heads, to 7 hills to show us more thoroughly that the 7 heads are kingdoms. hills rise above everything else, and kingdoms do also. Babylon is called the "mother of harlots" because all false religion has stemmed from her. The Antichrist will bring a false religion with him in his rise to power. Then when he has taken full control, he will say "I'm God".     

[godislove85]

Yes, the 7 hills represent 7 kingdoms but they also represent literal hills, as is clearly seen from the fact that Rev. 17-18 is a fitting description of many cities on 7 hills including NYC, Ancient Athens, Rome & Vatican City, Constantinople/Byzantium/Istanbul, Moscow, Mecca, San Francisco, Seattle, & Hollywood, among others.  You need to realize that Rev. 17-18 has more meanings than the one you gave which do not contradict the one you gave, for one Bible passage often has many meanings (ex. the Exodus is God's deliverance of His people from Pharaoh before they enter Jerusalem & God's deliverance of His people from the Antichrist before they enter the New Jerusalem)

[sopranette]

Okay, first the USA is not a city, but a country.  Second, the seven hills refers to Jerusalem.  The hills are listed as follows:

Hill one-Scopus
Hill two-Nob
Hill three-Mount of Corruption or Mount of Offence
Hill four-Mount Zion
Hill five-Ophel Mount
Hill six-Fort Antonia
Hill seven-New Mount Zion

Jerusalem is the city built on seven hills.

The seven kingdoms are as follows:
Egypt, Syria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and then two more that have not fallen yet, the two kingdoms of the Beast.

No mention of Hollywood, NYC, etc.

The seven churches are as follows, and still exist today:

The church that has forsaken its first love, Epheus
The church that would suffer persecution, Smyrna
The church that needs to repent, Pergamum
The church that has a false prophetess, Thyatira
The church that has fallen asleep, Sardis
The church that has endured patiently, Philadelphia
The church with the lukewarm faith, Laodecia.

love,

Sopranette

[sopranette]

What will be the ultimate fate of the USA, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it won't be pretty.  We as a nation have put God on the back burner for too long, and I believe 2 Timothy 3:2 accurately describes the general attitude of Americans today.

love,

Sopranette

[blituri]

Jerusalem which is identified as SODOM is a city set on seven hills.

Nashville is a city set on seven hills: it even has its temple to Athene or Athena

You will notice how many of those churches stolen to become "theaters for holy entertainment" by lying about all of the "music" passages are set on HILLS.  You can probably find seven of those.

The number 666 never appears in Scripture:  In Greek it is χξϛ

[rezar]

Okay, first the USA is not a city, but a country.  Second, the seven hills refers to Jerusalem.  The hills are listed as follows:

Hill one-Scopus
Hill two-Nob
Hill three-Mount of Corruption or Mount of Offence
Hill four-Mount Zion
Hill five-Ophel Mount
Hill six-Fort Antonia
Hill seven-New Mount Zion

Jerusalem is the city built on seven hills.

The seven kingdoms are as follows:
Egypt, Syria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and then two more that have not fallen yet, the two kingdoms of the Beast.

No mention of Hollywood, NYC, etc.

The seven churches are as follows, and still exist today:

The church that has forsaken its first love, Epheus
The church that would suffer persecution, Smyrna
The church that needs to repent, Pergamum
The church that has a false prophetess, Thyatira
The church that has fallen asleep, Sardis
The church that has endured patiently, Philadelphia
The church with the lukewarm faith, Laodecia.

love,

Sopranette

You are correct not to identify the mountains in Rev 17 with the city of Rome.
However, the problem arises with your exegesis in that Daniel 7 describes only 4 Beasts. Pagan Rome being the 4th - AND LAST. These were the kingdoms & the heads were the kings or emperors. Revelation is a fulfillment of Daniel. There would be no more kingdoms, except the kingdom of Christ (spiritual) at & after the reign of the 4th Beast/kingdom. Daniel 7 makes it clear that during the reign of the 11th horn from the 4 kingdom/Beast (Vespasian) that the Ancient of Days would come, the thrones would be in place- & thus, the Resurrection & Judgment would take place- AND the KINGDOM would be given to the saints of the Most High!

In prophecy, mountains & hills generally represent nation, peoples, & governments. (Ps.68:15,16; Isa. 41:15,16; Jer.3:23; 51:25)
Isaiah writes of a coming day of the Lord upon "all the high mountains, & upon the hills that are lifted up." (Isa.2:12-16).
In Rev.17:1, the woman is said to sit upon many waters. In Rev 17:15, the waters are interpreted as "Peoples, multitudes, and nations and tongues." This speaks of the pervasiveness of the woman's seat among the provinces- the Jews having dwelt in many cities throughout the empire. (For this reason is where I agree with you) that the mountains represent specific cities or political centers where the woman had a seat through the synagogue & a significant population of Jews who acted to persecute the church.
Rather than interpret the mountains geographically, the better view is to interpret them demographically, as pointing to population centers of the ancient world, not the topography of the land. Hence, rather than the hills of Rome, the better view is that the 7 mts. signify cities or political centers in Asia- & probably the cities of the 7 churches of Revelation. So, that is where we come to the same conclusion about the mountains.
But here's where I leave the futurists. There is no doubt with most scholars today that the woman in Rev.17, the great Harlot of mystery Babylon was the apostate Jews of the 1st century. Jerusalem was mystery Babylon.

Now, also in Rev.17:12, we read: 12 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour (or at one hour/short time- contemporaneously) as kings with the beast.

These kings have the following characteristics:
1. They are satellites or tributaries of the beast (i.e subject to Rome)
2. They are confederate with the beast against Jerusalem.
3. They are hostile to Christianity.
4. They are hostile to the harlot, & active agents in her destruction.
5. When the apostle wrote, these kings were not yet invested with power.
6. Their power was to be contemporaneous with that of the beast.

On the whole, the symbol signifies the auxillary princes & chiefs who were allies of Rome & received commands in the Roman army during the Jewish war.
We know this from Tacitus & Josephus that several kings of neighboring nations followed Vespasian & Titus to the war.
"They shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put into their heart to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled." (Rev17:16-17).
Tacitus speaks of the bitter animosity with which the Arab auxilaries of Titus were filled against the Jews- the intense hatred felt towards the Jews by the neighboring nations in the wholesale massacres of that unhappy people perpetrated in many great cities at the outbreak of the war. The whole Jewish population of Caesarea were massacred in 1 day In Syria every city was divided into 2 camps, Jews & Syrians. In Scythopolis upwards of 13,000 Jews were butchered. In Ascalon, Ptolemais, & Tyre, similar atrocities took place. But in Alexandria the carnage of the Jewish inhabitants exceeded all other massacres, etc (Josephus, Jewish wars. bk2, ch.18)
"The ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore"

So to understand the prophecy, one must consult the OT language & parallel verses- AND you must surely consult ancient history so one doesn't have an expectation or assumption for events that already took place in the Bible from history & try to ignore their fulfillment & place them erroneously in the future!

[blituri]

There is NO 666 in the Bible!

The BEAST:

Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    5578.  pseudoprophetes, psyoo-dop-rof-ay´-tace; from 5571 and 4396; a spurious prophet, i.e. pretended foreteller or religious impostor: -- false prophet.

The BEAST has to do with the "massed multitudes" and their deceivers which point directly to the performing ARTISTS:

Therion Trag. only in Satyric drama, dog, Theoc.25.79 making poetyr, Pandion=pappas, pater, pan
Dogs, leeches. III. as a term of reproach, beast, creature hê mousikê aeiti kainon thêrion tiktei
IV. Astron., the constellation Lupus, Gr. lukos to be struck dumb, of treacherous or unnatural love, i. e. live by rapine, phrear choreuei, of those engaged in vain pursuits, VI. nickname of paiderastai,

You can recognized them by their "new style worship" which comes from old style Babylon says John 17 identifying the "lusted after fruits" performing the hypocritic arts of rhetoric, singing and playing instruments.

    Kainos ,  A.new, fresh, esp. of new dramas, representation of the new tragedies, new style of drama,
    II.newly-invented, novel, innovations, without precedent,
    sophis-tês , A.master of one's craft, adept, expert, of diviners, Hdt.2.49; of poets,
    meletan sophistais prosbalon Pi.I.5(4).28 , cf. Cratin.2; of musicians

[sopranette]

Blituri, then how do you explain this verse, that does not mention musical styles, and clearly says the number is the number of one man:

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom.  Let him that hath understanding count the number of the Beast: for it is the number of a man: and his number is six hundred three score and six.

love,

Sopranette

[Corbley]

Astoundingly, there are approximately forty cities on "seven hills" (Rev. 17:9), & all or almost every one of them exceedingly resemble "Babylon the great wh*re" of Revelation 17-18 of whose wine all the nations drink, which is described as both a "woman" & "the great city," and who commits adultery against God, as opposed to the bride of Christ mentioned immediately afterward in Rev. 19! No wonder 17:9 calls special attention to the fact that Babylon is on seven hills by saying "here is the mind that has wisdom." These many cities on seven hills include (which are all discussed thoroughly on my website):



-the source & headquarters of the anti-Christ world religions including but not limited to Judaism, Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Islam, Buddhism, & Hinduism: Jerusalem, Rome where Vatican City is located, Constantinople/Byzantium/Istanbul & Moscow, Mecca in Saudi Arabia & Tehran in Iran (where the Ayatollah Khomeini ruled as a religious & political leader), Macau in China where about 93% of the population is Buddhist & which is the home of the Chinese Buddhist Communities Project "to make an important contribution to the cause of interreligious dialogue worldwide" & of the "Centre of Buddhist Studies," and Tirumala in India which is home to a Hindu temple "visited by about 60,000 people daily, making it the second most visited holy place after the Vatican in Rome"

---Catholicism & Orthodoxy have a "woman" associated with them: Virgin Mary also called "the Queen of Heaven" & "Madonna," who exceedingly resembles the "Queen of Heaven" & Queen of Babylon Semiramis who too was worshipped together with her son Tammuz who resembles Jesus in many uncommon ways 



-Hollywood (sometimes called "Hollywood Babylon"), whose "Hollywood Hills" has seven hills, and which is home to many women like Madonna & Britney Spears who resemble the great harlot of whose wine "all the nations drink"

-Seattle the most irreligious city in the U.S., San Francisco (called "Babylon by the Bay") where the Church of Satan was founded in 1966, & Melbourne in Australia



-New York City: Manhattan means "island of many hills" (due to its many hills such as "Murray Hill") as well as "whiskey" (& Babylon the great whore is said in 17:2 to make the nations "drunk"!);
---There are only seven neighborhoods with the word "hill" in EACH of these boroughs of New York City: Manhattan, Staten Island, Queens, Brooklyn;
---apparently the only town in the world officially called Babylon is in Long Island, New York, in the suburbs of New York City, which is the home of the Amityville Horror, the most famous of all haunted places as Babylon the Great which is "the habitation of devils" [Rev. 18:2];
---the headquarters of the worldwide Church of Satan from 2001-present, formerly centered in San Francisco "the city on seven hills"!!!
---Furthermore, there are many echoes of 9/11 in the Bible in connection with Babylon: for instance, all the merchants of the world weep in Revelation 18 (which is 9x2) beginning in verse 11 because Babylon the/a center of world trade has "fallen"; and the destruction of the Tower of Babylon at a time when there is a global language like English is today is mentioned only in the first 9 verses of Genesis 11.
---Furthermore, there are many uncommon resemblances between the Statue of "Liberty Enlightening the World" & both Jesus "the light of the world" (as Satan says "I will be like the most High" in Is. 14:14) and the whore of Babylon.

there is more about NYC Babylon on my site

Actually, the study I have been looking into is the seven hills that are around the Vatican City.....I personally believe that the Catholic Church is the Woman riding the beast in Revelation.
Beasts in prophecy are nations   and many times, the woman is in reference to the church.

The Vatican City is a nation by itself and the Church is in fact the nation.....So, the Woman riding the Beast would fit 

[Corbley]

Vilifying Catholics is the one thing that saddens me most about this board in general.

love,

Sopranette

It would not be done if the Catholic Church would get rid of all the idol worship and ritualistic prayer,  Hailing Mary, Calling the Pope HOLY FATHER and so on.......God is our Holy Father  not any earthly man.

[fanuvmxpx]

It would not be done if the Catholic Church would get rid of all the idol worship and ritualistic prayer,  Hailing Mary, Calling the Pope HOLY FATHER and so on.......God is our Holy Father  not any earthly man.

I worry more for those who confess sins to a man, and receive penance from a man, and never bring their sins to the cross.

[blituri]

The Mother has many daughters: here is the definition of a BEAST and the MARK so you can identify HER. Pointing only to Rome is a slick trick to remove the suspicion to most of what we laughingly call "church."

Here is the quote.

Rev. 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding
      count the number of the beast:
      for it is the number of a man;
      and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The beast is not A man but has the number of A man.

Six hundred threescore and six is not 666 in Greek.  In Arabic it is:

hexakosioi hexêkonta hex

I am working on Revelation 13 but it has grown so much that I will post it on the web.

As these words are spelled out ἑξακόσιοι ἑξήκοντα ἑξ each one of the words points to ways the words are used in the Greek literature.  I will post what I have found later.

Without CHEATING I can find the literature which identifies EXACTLY what is happening in most Bible based churches even those traditionally instrumental music.

I will rest my case on that because no one can find any exception. The Beast includes the MUSES of Revelation 18:22 as well as the LUKOS or the Wolves of Acts 20.  The Muses are:

Kainos ,  A.new, fresh, esp. of new style dramas, representation of the new tragedies of Aphrodisias  dedicated to Aphrodite. 

    Homer: To Aphrodite

    [1] Muse, tell me the deeds of golden Aphrodite the Cyprian,
           who stirs up sweet passion in the gods
           and subdues the tribes of mortal men and birds that fly in air and
           all the many creatures [5] that the dry land rears, and all that the sea:
           all these love the deeds of rich-crowned Cytherea . 
           Aphrodite Genetrix who is also calleld ZOE.

THE NEW STYLE MUSIC IS DEFINED AS:

    Aeido  New style of singing replacing the
    palaia old style singing which in good sense, venerable, held in esteem, like Lat. antiquus,
    Kreisson as a stronger, superior to the influence of money,
    putting oneself above, more powerful.

II.newly-invented, novel, innovations, without precedent, sophis-tês , A.master of one's craft, adept, expert, of diviners, Hdt.2.49; of poets, meletan sophistais prosbalon Pi.I.5(4).28 , cf. Cratin.2; of musicians

PROBABLY THE LOUDEST SOUND HEARD AROUND THE WORLD AT THE SAME TIME IN MOST CHURCHES IS

WE GONNA INTRODUCE A NEW STYLE OF WORSHIP MUSIC. That was a driven purpose of Jubilee

sophis-tês A. master of one's craft, adept, expert, of diviners, of musicians II. from late v B.C., a Sophist, i.e. one who gave lessons in grammar, rhetoric, politics, mathematics, for money, from the ill repute of the professed sophists at Athens. Selling learning at retail is what Paul called "corrupting the Word.".

AN EXAMPLE:

Pindar, Ishmian 5 If Aegina turns her steps to the clear road of god-given deeds,
      then do not grudge [25] to mix for her in song a boast that is fitting recompense for toils.
      In heroic times, too, fine warriors gained fame,
      and they are celebrated with lyres and flutes in full-voiced harmonies
      [28] for time beyond reckoning. Heroes who are honored by the grace of Zeus
      provide a theme for skilled poets:

This is what musicians do: Psallo or melody had the only true meaning of to STRIKE as in HURT.

prosballô , A strike, dash against golen horn having a goledn mouthpiece affixed. A lyre

Is. 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters,
        and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair:
        I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

    5221. nakah, naw-kaw´; a primitive root; to strike (lightly or severely, literally or figuratively)
      -beat, cast forth, clap, give (wounds), stricken

    There must be a message that ALL playing of instruments is the same word for violence

    Percutio To strike through and through, to thrust or pierce through.
        To strike, beat, hit, smite, shoot b. To strike, play a musical instrument

I take it as a given that almost no one believes that.

[godislove85]

Yes, Jerusalem, Vatican City in Rome, & Imperial Rome represent Mystery Babylon.  HOWEVER, that interpretation is FAR FAR too narrow.  As I showed in part in my first post, Mystery Babylon represents:
1) "great cities" which have fallen like Ancient Athens on seven hills & imperial Rome on seven hills; and ones which still exist like NYC & Hollywood on seven hills & many more
2) "great nations" ("polis" can refer to more than one city, as in the words megapolis, decapolis [10 cities], etc.; its root meaning is "many [people united]") which have fallen like the Soviet Union & the Roman Empire; and ones which stand like the United States & Iraq (where Babylon was found).
3) the great ships which "sit on many waters" & have fallen, including the Titanic, the Olympic, & the Brittanic (originally "the Gigantic"); and the Lusitania whose sinking by a German submarine helped spark World War I & which resembled the Titanic. God hinted at this fact by causing Titanic to gross almost $2,000,000,000 among all the nations of the world, more than any other movie in history.
4) great women who are associated with Rome, Athens, NYC, Hollywood (ex. Britney Spears, Madonna the "Queen of Pop" [the name of the paganized Virgin Mary "Queen of Heaven"]) who have fornicated with types of the Antichrist including many actors who have played God &/or Satan (ex. Willem Dafoe who fornicated with Madonna)

All of these people & societies are "harlots" because they have not been faithful to God like the "bride of Christ" (all true Christians) who is mentioned immediately afterwards in Revelation 19 & is also described as a "woman" "clothed in fine linen" and therefore they have all fallen or will fall before Jesus' Second Coming

[godislove85]

Iraq is another "Mystery Babylon," and its current destruction is God's warning that Revelation 17-18 will indeed be fulfilled and Jesus' Second Coming is soon to come, just as the destruction of the Twin Towers on 9/11 in NYC Babylon was, as I show on this page (Amos 3:6: shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?)! Resemblances betwen Iraq & "Mystery Babylon the Great":

1. ancient Babylon is located in Iraq, about 55 miles south of Baghdad!

2. There are 10 "kings" (the leaders of the 10 coalition forces) which invaded Iraq! This is a fulfillment of 17:12,16: "And THE TEN HORNS which thou sawest are ten kings...And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the wh*re, and shall make her desolate." The number of invading forces could have been 3, or 8, or 15, or many other numbers, but there were only 10 which invaded! No coincidence!

3. Ancient Babylon, the extremely wealthy city where The Hanging Gardens of Babylon were, imported the items of Revelation 18 before it was made desolate. Furthermore, Modern Babylon (Iraq) might become like Ancient Babylon in this respect.

4. According to the CIA, Iraq exports 1.5 million barrels of oil per day! Rev. 17:2: the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine [i.e. oil] of her fornication.

The following argument makes clear that "wine" can symbolize "oil":

-BLOOD SYMBOLIZES THE LIFE-GIVING HOLY SPIRIT: "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:5) "Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh." (Deut. 12:23) "there are three that bear witness [that Jesus is the Son of God] in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 John 5:8)

-WINE SYMBOLIZES BLOOD: Matt. 26:28-29: this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

-BUT BLOOD SYMBOLIZES THE HOLY SPIRIT WHICH CLEANSES FROM SIN: Rev. 1:5: Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood. 1 Cor. 6:11: ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

-AND OIL TOO SYMBOLIZES THE HOLY SPIRIT: Psalms 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings...

-THEREFORE, OIL & WINE ARE BOTH SYMBOLS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. After all, both the Holy Spirit & wine have strong influence over a person's actions. The connection between oil & wine is made clearer by the fact that in the approximately 50-60 times "wine" & "oil" are found in a list in the Bible, they apparently always appear next to each other!

5. The "king" of Iraq & Baghdad, Saddam ("powerful commander") Hussein ("beautiful one"), strongly resembles even in name Satan "the king of Babylon" (Isaiah 14:14) & the Antichrist: A witness testified Wednesday at Saddam Hussein's trial that the deposed leader's regime killed and tortured people by administering electric shocks and ripping off their skin after pouring molten plastic on it...

[Corbley]

Iraq is another "Mystery Babylon," and its current destruction is God's warning that Revelation 17-18 will indeed be fulfilled and Jesus' Second Coming is soon to come, just as the destruction of the Twin Towers on 9/11 in NYC Babylon was, as I show on this page (Amos 3:6: shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?)! Resemblances betwen Iraq & "Mystery Babylon the Great":

1. ancient Babylon is located in Iraq, about 55 miles south of Baghdad!

2. There are 10 "kings" (the leaders of the 10 coalition forces) which invaded Iraq! This is a fulfillment of 17:12,16: "And THE TEN HORNS which thou sawest are ten kings...And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the wh*re, and shall make her desolate." The number of invading forces could have been 3, or 8, or 15, or many other numbers, but there were only 10 which invaded! No coincidence!

3. Ancient Babylon, the extremely wealthy city where The Hanging Gardens of Babylon were, imported the items of Revelation 18 before it was made desolate. Furthermore, Modern Babylon (Iraq) might become like Ancient Babylon in this respect.

4. According to the CIA, Iraq exports 1.5 million barrels of oil per day! Rev. 17:2: the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine [i.e. oil] of her fornication.

The following argument makes clear that "wine" can symbolize "oil":

-BLOOD SYMBOLIZES THE LIFE-GIVING HOLY SPIRIT: "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:5) "Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh." (Deut. 12:23) "there are three that bear witness [that Jesus is the Son of God] in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 John 5:8)

-WINE SYMBOLIZES BLOOD: Matt. 26:28-29: this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

-BUT BLOOD SYMBOLIZES THE HOLY SPIRIT WHICH CLEANSES FROM SIN: Rev. 1:5: Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood. 1 Cor. 6:11: ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

-AND OIL TOO SYMBOLIZES THE HOLY SPIRIT: Psalms 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings...

-THEREFORE, OIL & WINE ARE BOTH SYMBOLS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. After all, both the Holy Spirit & wine have strong influence over a person's actions. The connection between oil & wine is made clearer by the fact that in the approximately 50-60 times "wine" & "oil" are found in a list in the Bible, they apparently always appear next to each other!

5. The "king" of Iraq & Baghdad, Saddam ("powerful commander") Hussein ("beautiful one"), strongly resembles even in name Satan "the king of Babylon" (Isaiah 14:14) & the Antichrist: A witness testified Wednesday at Saddam Hussein's trial that the deposed leader's regime killed and tortured people by administering electric shocks and ripping off their skin after pouring molten plastic on it...

I believe you are confusing Babylon with New Babylon or Mystery Babylon.
By choosing a couple of verses and pointing to Iraq....You could do the same and point to most every nation.....But when reading Isaiah.....There is only one nation, that will fit into ALL the descriptions of the New Babylon and that is the USA

[godislove85]

i'm pretty sure that you're correct about the USA being the Mystery Babylon THE NATION, as I support by showing how many U.S. cities like NYC, Hollywood, & San Francisco fit the criteria in Rev. 17-18 as well.  However, how then do you explain the many uncommon resemblances between Iraq & Mystery Babylon mentioned here & on my site? 

[Corbley]

i'm pretty sure that you're correct about the USA being the Mystery Babylon THE NATION, as I support by showing how many U.S. cities like NYC, Hollywood, & San Francisco fit the criteria in Rev. 17-18 as well.  However, how then do you explain the many uncommon resemblances between Iraq & Mystery Babylon mentioned here & on my site? 

I should have been a little more clear. The Mystery Babylon is not America...More it is the system of economic strength that America has created. And now America leads the way spreading like a web across the globe.
But even deeper than that, the system gets its strength from the individuals greed. We are all a part of this economical system and it feeds off our own personal greed and lust fro things of this world. It ties our daily life to it and our time on earth is literally consumed by the system of govenrment America has created.
As Christians, we have found the answer in Christ, to redeem our sins of this world.  But for the mass of society, they feed the beast...with their lust for earthly comforts and treasures.

[rezar]

There was only one Mystery Babylon in the Bible with absolutely no revisions to make up to flatter silly suppositions in the future.

Mystery Babylon was fulfilled. It was 1st century Jerusalem (apostate Israel).

If you can show(& I know you can't) that America or any other country was guilty of shedding the blood of the prophets & apostles, as written about in the gospels & Revelation's Babylon- only then could you have credibility with your view.

So, show me a nation TODAY that was guilty of shedding the blood of the saints & apostles, as it is written- or else it's just your fantasy & shows immaturity in a couple of ways.

PS- I think saying America is Babylon is saying you hate yourself in so many words.

Don't include me in the negativity spewed. I will always be praying for this country.

It's the nations in general- or even a city that do not come up to "Jerusalem" to worship the King that have to worry more about God's favor or curse.

[Corbley]

There was only one Mystery Babylon in the Bible with absolutely no revisions to make up to flatter silly suppositions in the future.

Mystery Babylon was fulfilled. It was 1st century Jerusalem (apostate Israel).

If you can show(& I know you can't) that America or any other country was guilty of shedding the blood of the prophets & apostles, as written about in the gospels & Revelation's Babylon- only then could you have credibility with your view.

So, show me a nation TODAY that was guilty of shedding the blood of the saints & apostles, as it is written- or else it's just your fantasy & shows immaturity in a couple of ways.

PS- I think saying America is Babylon is saying you hate yourself in so many words.

Don't include me in the negativity spewed. I will always be praying for this country.

It's the nations in general- or even a city that do not come up to "Jerusalem" to worship the King that have to worry more about God's favor or curse.

The Prophecies have not been fulfilled....By believing they have,  you are simply setting yourself up to be deceived.
You still have yet to reply about the unfullfilled prophecies I spelled out in other posts.......And you can not
An Army of 200 million   Has not marched along the Euphraties river....  In fact, there wasnt even 200 million people in the whole world in 70AD
There was not 2 witnesses laying in the street for 3 days...for the whole world to see.....If they were in the streets,  only those standing on the same street could have seen them.
A world government has never been
Wormwood is hurling towards earth now.......It didnt strike in 70AD or we would not be typing now.
And the biggest on you can not (or will not responde to)   Is the fact that there has never been a time of peace on earth

No brother,  your theory has too many holes  and that is all it is ....A theory.  And your theory moves to cast doubt on all Christians faith. Because, Christians believe in the second coming of our Lord and savior.
Christ told us when  he returns, it will be in all his glory and Satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

There is far too much evil in the world, for that to be so.  No brother, Satan is in full force and he is corrupting the heart of Man.  And most of mankind has been deceived by him.  By theories such as the one you believe in.

America is far more sin in it, than Soldomn....And God will be passing judgement on her........Pagan symbols throughout
Condones sin that is an Abomination to God,  raises up false witnesses and gives them earthly treasures.
And America is spreading like a desease around the globe......We claim that democracy must be spread "In the name of Peace"  we wage war.
OH wait a minute....The bible says the beast will do that   HMMMMMMM

[fanuvmxpx]

OH wait a minute....The bible says the beast will do that   HMMMMMMM

I believe there are several prophecies yet to be fulfilled as well. However, regardless of different theologies, please no one accept a computer chip in your hand or forehead.

[BornToReign]

I believe there are many things yet to be fulfilled as well. but I don't by into much of the speculations and left behind stories either. I am more leaning towards this ending to be spiritual. "First the physical then the spiritual." I'm still working it out, its like a jar on the edge of a high shelf.

Corbley, She is a sister. brother.     

[godislove85]

Jerusalem is not THE Mystery Babylon.  Was Jerusalem "the glory [beauty] of kingdoms" (Is. 13:19) as Babylon is & as the US is envied worldwide (it was to a much lesser extent than the US)?  Was Jerusalem "the hammer of the nations" (Jeremiah 50:23) as Babylon & the US is (it was to a much lesser extent than the US)?  Do "all the nations stream to" (Jer. 51:44) Jerusalem as they do to NYC where the United Nations & worldwide Church of Satan is based? 

Mystery Babylon of Revelation 17-18, Isaiah 13-14, 47-48; Jeremiah 50-51; etc. is America & New York City, and there are many cities & nations which God made fit the description of Babylon to FORESHADOW the fall of America & NYC. Nineveh the capital of the Assyrian Empire, Jerusalem, Ancient Athens which ruled the Athenian Empire before it fell in the Peloponnesian War, Rome where Vatican City is located and which ruled the Roman Empire before it fell, Constantinople/Byzantium/Istanbul which ruled the Byzantine Empire before it fell & Moscow which ruled the Soviet Union before it fell, etc. 

Hollywood ("Hollywood Babylon"), San Francisco ("Babylon by the Bay"), & Seattle all exceedingly resemble Mystery Babylon as well (though probably less than NYC) to show all the more that USA is Mystery Babylon the nation. 

(NOTE: Mystery Babylon is called "the great city" in Rev. 17:18, but the Greek word "polis" simply means any large group of people and can apply to many cities joined together, as is the case with the words megapolis, pentapolis, decapolis, etc.  Babylon is in fact called a "nation" in Habbakuk 1:6)

[fanuvmxpx]

(NOTE: Mystery Babylon is called "the great city" in Rev. 17:18, but the Greek word "polis" simply means any large group of people and can apply to many cities joined together, as is the case with the words megapolis, pentapolis, decapolis, etc.  Babylon is in fact called a "nation" in Habbakuk 1:6)

It makes sense to me too. America, the "beacon of light" to the world, the leaders of the free world, the president as THE leader of the free world, the protector of the free world, the currency of the free world. Is it theory? Sure, but it really seems like its headed that way.

[rezar]

You're deceived by dispensationalism.


Prove to me there is a country or anyone who shed the blood of the prophets & saints as Jesus said about Jerusalem.

If not,  you're just trolls 

[godislove85]

You're deceived by dispensationalism.


Prove to me there is a country or anyone who shed the blood of the prophets & saints as Jesus said about Jerusalem.

If not,  you're just trolls 

Prophecy is a gift of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12) that is still in effect today.  I know several people who have this gift.  The U.S. & many types of Mystery Babylon (ex.Rome/Roman Empire, Istanbul/Ottoman Empire, Moscow/Soviet Union) have shed the blood of many such people.  Thus, the death of these people is due to the U.S. and all types of Mystery Babylon, including Jerusalem.  Furthermore, the U.S. is metaphorically responsible for "killing" people insofar as the books/movies/music etc. it has exported have turned people away from Christ and thereby led them into Hell.

[rezar]

You're deceived by dispensationalism.


Prove to me there is a country or anyone who shed the blood of the prophets & saints as Jesus said about Jerusalem.

If not,  you're just trolls 

Prophecy is a gift of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12) that is still in effect today.  I know several people who have this gift.  The U.S. & many types of Mystery Babylon (ex.Rome/Roman Empire, Istanbul/Ottoman Empire, Moscow/Soviet Union) have shed the blood of many such people.  Thus, the death of these people is due to the U.S. and all types of Mystery Babylon, including Jerusalem.  Furthermore, the U.S. is metaphorically responsible for "killing" people insofar as the books/movies/music etc. it has exported have turned people away from Christ and thereby led them into Hell.

I do not believe the gift of prophecy is has been in effect since Christ's Parousia. What is in effect is a word of knowledge or wisdom. Even these predictions by well meaning Christians have been failed prophecies. Can you provide a source that isn't a psychic (for they are mostly wrong also) but something that can be verified?

The U.S. is not responsible (it's not communist) & doesn't force anyone to engage in sinful behaviors. In fact our laws advocate moral behavior. People (individuals) have a choice- we are all born with free will. One can't blame Hollywood if they choose to watch or read x-rated or evil material. We are ultimately personally responsible for our own salvation through the choices that we make.

Mystery Babylon was exclusive to the Jews in Jesus' day. No other race or nation lost the voice of "the bridegroom & bride" but the apostate Israelites. This is confirmed by in the parable (one of many) of the Wedding Feast (Mt. 22).
I'll have to elaborate at another time on that.  But if you want to discuss politics or world affairs- do so-but don't drag fake prophecy into it. In fact everything you talk about is nowhere related to anything Biblical.

[godislove85]

Friend, Revelation 1 makes clear that Revelation is about the end-times, especially the Great Tribulation or last 7 years before Jesus' Second Coming, even though many of its events have been foreshadowed in Jerusalem for instance.  Furthermore, I quote many Biblical passages above in support of my opinion and ground myself in the Bible constantly.

[sopranette]

So does everybody else here.  But I can't find "Britney Spears" anywhere in scripture. 

love,

Sopranette

[rezar]

Friend, Revelation 1 makes clear that Revelation is about the end-times, especially the Great Tribulation or last 7 years before Jesus' Second Coming, even though many of its events have been foreshadowed in Jerusalem for instance.  Furthermore, I quote many Biblical passages above in support of my opinion and ground myself in the Bible constantly.

That's all well & fine sister & I'm sure you're not alone. But we preterists for sure do not share what the orthodox (future coming of Christ) believe. In fact, their interpretation of the Bible astounded me when I began to have a pov on end-times & subsequently studied Eschatology 3 yrs. ago.

What does the very 1st verse of Revelation say?
Rev1:1,
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place.

First note the origin of the prophecy. "which God gave Him."  We can be sure that God knew the hour & the day- no nonsense about "Oh, but no one knows the hour or the day but God!"
Well, it's here in plain English that Jesus was sitting at the right hand of the Father since His resurrection, & was giving this prophecy via His angel to His servant John.

Next, look at the rest of the verse. "The things which must shortly take place!"

Can that be any more clear?

The appearing (epiphaneia) of the Lord mentioned by Paul in 1Tim 6:14-16 corresponds with his revelation (apokalupsis); the terms are used interchangeably. (2Thess.1:7; 1Pet 1:7)
The appearing & revelation of Christ also correspond with his coming. In the context of the events described in Revelation, all three terms refer to the same end-time events.

However, used in the larger context of Biblical eschatology & God's redemptive purpose, the scriptures speak of 2 appearances of Christ. The first to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself (Heb. 9:26,27); the second to vanquish his enemies, receive his bride, & enter upon his eternal kingdom & reign. (Mt. 16:27,28; 2Tim. 4:1; Heb. 9:28) It is the latter that is the subject of Revelation.
The vision given to John pertained to the things that were shortly come to pass. The 1st century AD church was taught to watch for the coming of the Lord; it was in earnest expectation of the Lord's imminent return.
Jesus told the apostles they would not have the opportunity to preach in all the cities of Israel before he had come (Mt 10:23), & that some would not taste death before he returned (Mt. 16:27,28 cf. John 21:22) Paul wrote that the time that remained was short (1Cor. 7:29)
James said, "the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." (Jm. 5:8)
Peter wrote, "the end of all things is at hand." (1Pet.4:7) The clear import of these & similar passages places the second coming of Christ in that generation (Mt. 24:30,34; cf. Mk 13:26,30; Luke 21:31)

This has proved a fertile source for liberals & skeptics who point to Christ's asserted failure to return when promised as proof the Bible is not inspired. Most expositors weakly respond that the apostles were either simply mistaken or that a "thousand years with the Lord is as a day," & that the imminence of Christ's return cannot, therefore, be considered according to human time-frame.

We cannot object too strongly. Saying that the apostles were mistaken all but denies the inspiration & inerrancy of the scriptures. If we cannot trust them in something as important as Christ's second coming, how are we to trust them at all?
Neither will it do to change the meaning of the language.

God is not so limited in his choice of words in communicating with man that he must make do with terms that inadequately express his mind. Human vocabulary is not so deficient that God must use short when he really means long, near when he means far, quickly instead of slowly, & at hand when he really means distant future. If we cannot take God's word at face value, trusting him to use words according to their accepted meaning, how can you have confidence in the word of God at all?
What happens to the promises of God if they are written in double-talk where everything means just the opposite of what it says?

Anyone who denies the apostles & the 1st Christians their honor is selfish imo- no other word describes what the liberals & immature Christians WANT. They WANT Christ to come for them in their generation- but they in no way WHO the Bible was written TO.
It was written FOR us, but not TO us.
So, it's selfish to make those claims, even if one has grown up with them & finds them acceptable- that is only bc tradition finds them ok, but tradition is blatantly wrong & wrong to perpetuate such toxic doctrines about Christ's second advent.

Ask yourself, does the Lord approve of selfishness?

Well, this is a start. There are many preterists books I can recommend once you look at that 1st verse & realize God made it clear- it was all to come to pass shortly. The bookends contain in Rev 1 & 22 the clear language that those things would shortly be done.

Have a blessed day.

[godislove85]

Yes, many of the things in Revelation did take place "shortly" (Rev. 1) after Jesus spoke them, for Jerusalem "the great city" (Rev. 11:8) which fell in 70 AD is a type of Babylon "the great city" of Rev. 17-18 (but MERELY a type).  However, I see a number of problems with a preterist understanding of Revelation:
-Babylon of Rev. 17-18 is also "the hindermost of nations" (Jer. 50:12), as the US appears to be; other nations arose after Jerusalem, so Rev. 17-18 could not have been completely fulfilled in the first century
-although, as I show at great length on my website, there have been many foreshadowings of the image of the beast created by the two-horned false prophet which causes the whole world to worship the first beast (for instance, the dual-antennae tv which causes everyone to worship tv stars and heroes like Batman & Superman who are types of the Antichrist), has everyone who didn't worship this image been "killed" as Revelation 13 requires??? 
-has everyone been required to take the mark of the beast in their forehead or hand or else be killed and not be able to buy or sell, as Rev. 13 requires???
-surely there has been greater tribulation in the 20th century with the two world wars & the holocaust than there was in the 1st century, wasn't there??? if so, THE Great Tribulation could not have been in the first century, or else you must call Jesus a liar (Matt. 24:21) Titus' & Hitler's destruction of the Jews were mere TYPES or FORESHADOWINGS of the tribulation to come

Therefore, I must still contend that the USA is THE Mystery Babylon.

God bless,
George

[Lee Freeman]

Friend, Revelation 1 makes clear that Revelation is about the end-times, especially the Great Tribulation or last 7 years before Jesus' Second Coming, even though many of its events have been foreshadowed in Jerusalem for instance.  Furthermore, I quote many Biblical passages above in support of my opinion and ground myself in the Bible constantly.

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. . . . Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near. . . .

John,
      To the seven churches in the province of Asia. . . (Revelation 1:1;3;4)

John says the things he was writing about "must soon take place" because "the time is near." Then he says that was writing to "the seven churches in the  province of Asia."

How could 9/11/2001 be "soon" or "near" to these Asian Christians of ca. the 60s AD?

Revelation, or Apokalypse to use its original NT Greek name is Jewish apocalyptic literature, which used figurative language (beasts, numbers, lambs, angels, etc.). It gets its name from the Greek for "to unveil' or "reveal," as in a bride being unveiled.

Revelation was originally written to those seven historic asian churches to give them hope and comfort during a time of Roman persecution. The message of Revelation isn't a secret code that smart people can figure out to predict the end-times. The message of Revelation was/is for Christians not to lose heart and give up under persecution, but to hang in there because ultimately God wins.

The common fundamentalist Protestant Dispensational Premillennialist interpretation of Revelation is a Johhny-come-lately interpretation. It isn't old at all, only dating back to the 1830s. For over 1800 years nobody in Christianity interpreted Revelation this way.

Besides, every end-times prophet to date-Darby, Miller, Smith, Russell, Lindsay, Van Impe, LaHaye, etc., had/have a 100% failure rate. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence that these men really understood Revelation.

IMHO too many Christians spend too much time looking for secret codes revealing the end-times and not enough time actually preaching the gospel and making a difference in the lives of people. Many of the Thessalonians had quit working and participating in society and were just sitting around waiting for Christ to return. Paul told them to stop being idle, that Christ would return in his own good time, but in the meantime, their job was to be salt and light to a lost world, which they couldn't be if they stopped living and working and just sat around waiting for the end.

Continual speculation about the end-times is a distraction the church and the world cannot afford. How much time has already been wasted/lost scaring people to death into wondering whether they're about to be raptured, or left behind? Real people are out there struggling with real problems in the real world, and drilling secret apocalyptic codes into them won't help them put food on the table, pay off their second mortgage, kick their addiction, or encounter the resurrected Christ who can help them with all these things.

Pax.