Love, Marriage, Adultery? Am I supposed to be with my first?

[eveink]

Brothers and Sisters, I need your help.

Since my husband and I started dating I have felt uneasy about our relationship. When we met he was in the process of divorcing his wife for, what I realized later, unbiblical reasons. I have always felt like the other woman, his mistress. At first I thought it was my jealousy about his being with someone else. We have been together for about a year and a half and married for 7 months. I still feel like my husband did something wrong and worse, I feel like we are commiting adultery. Before I married my husband I prayed and asked God if he is the man I am supposed to marry and I never received a yes, my unease remained. I brushed off all these feelings of doubt because I felt I was still emotionally recovering from a broken engagement. I didn't listen to my gut instinct and felt obligated to marry my husband because we had discussed it from the beginning of our relationship.

My problem is further complicated. When I was 16 I had sex with someone that I loved very much. We remained friends, but until very recently, I lived overseas. I never stopped loving him and have always felt like I've cheated on him by being with other people. I know that he still loves me as much as I love him. I know that we live in modern times of "legal" marriage and that "God as our witness" isn't considered a valid marriage nowadays... but isn't it still true?

Am I right to even dare to think that the man I love and had sex with when I was 16 (8 years ago) was/is my husband? In John 4:1-42 Jesus talked to the woman at the well and mentioned her 5 husbands, I have often related her situation to mine.  And if I am correct in believing that that man from my past is my first husband and the man I am legally married to now is commiting adultery with me, and God has not recognized our union, that I too am commiting adultery and should actually be with my teenage love?

I should probably add the fact that the front my husband put on in order to seduce me into marriage quickly dissolved after the court ceremony. He is unattentive, thoughtless, we live basically separate lives and he forgets about his empty promises before he can even think about fulfilling them. I am very unhappy with him, though that is not the reason I posted this. If I believed that my marriage is true and right I would soldier through and try to love him, but honestly the love I had for him is completely gone after all that he has done.

[kensington]

No.. the man you took vows with before the LORD and legally is your husband.  You are being haunted by something you cannot change.  We have all had "first loves"... some of us married them, and some of us, have walked out life growing on.  What counts is that you are saved and you are married and your spouse, your husband can be won by your witness and the walk you have with the LORD now.  Do not compound sin with sin.   He was getting a divorce...  that may have happened regardless and probably would have.  People who file seldom go back, unless there is something big that happens.  Sex is for marriage and I think probably you feel that since you know this, your first experience is the LOVE of your life.  This is fairy tale stuff and is not true once the LORD touches your life.  You need to seek the LORD to deliver you from this "mind game" that the enemy of your soul is trying to play on you.

Satan loves it when he can get a Christian to double think, doubt and go backwards in life rather than seeking to go forward and seeking healing from the things of the past we cannot change.  You cannot change that you had sex before you met your husband.  But it does not have to ruin your marriage.  You married this man, he married you.   Jesus when speaking to the woman who had 5 husbands and was living with a man not married to... DID NOT say to her, you are bound to the first husband... he noted she had moved on, more than once... and even mentioned 5 times.  He told her that she was living with a man she was not married to, and to go and sin no more...  Thus..  She could not return to a fornication relationship but, to sin no more, she would need to marry him, or remain single with no man.  The BIBLE doesn't say what she did...  But...  we know those are the choices she had once forgiven because that is what the rest of the word says concerning marriage, divorce and fornication. 

As to being together a year and a half, and married 7 months...  you had plenty of time to seek answers as to the man's character.  If you were really looking I don't believe he could have pulled the wool over your eyes.  We are responsible to know who we marry, what kind of person they are, and if they are the kind of person we want to be married to BEFORE we go down the isle.  If someone gets us down the isle and we didn't know them... it's due to the fact that we had blinders on, that were placed there by us. 

Do not compound sin by seeking to divorce and marry another... you will be going on to adultery.  But, seek to have the LORD give you the path you need to see your husband saved.  To pray for you and he, to get in a Bible teaching church and to have a Godly family now.  Let go of his past, it's gone, but walk openly with God now and receive the grace he has for you both.  If he has sinned... what sin has he committed that is worse than any sin you have committed?  You need to stop seeking an out, and start seeking healing... if you are asking if you now have BIBLICAL grounds for divorce... the answer is NO. 

[eveink]

Thank you for your response, Kensington.  I understand what you are trying to say. My husband claims to be a Christian and did a fairly good job of pretending right up until we got married. At that point he refused to go to church with me anymore. He rushed me into marriage because his next military assignment would be in another country. Our marriage may be legal, but we never took vows before the Lord, as you state it. I don't value legal marriage much considering they let homosexuals marry as well.

I agree that sex is for marriage, but I also believe that it consumates a marriage - which is what I think happened when I was 16. The thing is, the relationship was heading towards marriage until I had to move overseas when I was 17. At some point we lost contact, I gave up on ever seeing him again and continued to mourn him for 6 years. Then I met my now husband and married because I thought that was all that was left for me and I felt some kind of love for him, not because I was in love with him.

Now that I am back in the States I was reunited with my long lost love and we are devastated about this situation. 

[chosenone]

I agree with Kensington, you are married to your present husband. Even if your marriage wasnt in a Chrurch, you are still married in Gods eyes becuase He is everywhere. I know that you are probably wanting someone to give you the go ahead to leave your husband and marry this aother guy,but I dont think you will find that here beacuse it isnt what The bible teaches. You didnt 'marry' the other guy, you committed fornication with him becuase you werent married. Sorry.

[chosenone]

Just to add a few things, you really need to cut off any contact with the other man. I am assuming that you have had some contact because you said that you are both devastated that you are now married.
Also, to be discontent with someone is an awful way to be. I woud hate if my husband was discontent with me and was looking for a way out of our marriage.
If you really want to leave and be with this other man then you will justify that by what you say eg that you married him when you had sex a 16 etc but it isnt true. You are married to another man and you have no bibical reason for a divorce.
You were only 16 when you were with this guy and you said that you were on the way to being married. !6 is VERY young to be thinking about marrying anyone and things can seem very rosy then at that age

The more that you think about this other person the more unhappy that you will be with your husband,and you wil always be thinking that the grass is greener, so my advice would be to forget him, to be real with your self and your situation, and to get on with loving your own husband and working at your own marriage. 

[kensington]

"Now that I am back in the States I was reunited with my long lost love and we are devastated about this situation."

I wondered if this had happened.  You are walking close to sin....  Your husband did nothing wrong to want to marry you before going to a duty station.  I know many many many military wives.  They marry fast for the same reason. I myself have been a NAVY wife for 22+ years.  I do not see this as a reason for divorce.  It is certainly not BIBLICAL reasoning. 

You did not commit marriage with whom it was you had a sexual encounter at the age of 16.  It was headed to marriage you belive... but you did not marry him.  You married your husband.  God instructed us through JESUS that we are to submit to the LAWS of the LAND... and you did that in marriage.  God honors that.  You cannot sit here and tell me that legal marriages are not before God...  as there are so many sound, good marriages that began that way.  Our law is, you got a license, you went to someone who had the authority to marry, and you got married.  You are married.  You are really going a long way around the block to dismiss your marriage vows.  And trying to dismiss the marriages of millions of other Christians who are legally married and walk in faith with God.  It's sad to see you do that. For you to say your marriage by law is not marriage, is to say that none of theirs is either.  That reveals the selfishness that sin can bring on us when we let it in our minds. 

People stop attending church for many reasons... but that is not a reason for divorce.  Stop walking in the temptation of this first guy you slept with.  He is not your husband.  You are treading very close to danger and trying to talk yourself into it being God's will. IT IS NOT.   

You are not in love with your husband?  That is what everyone says once the honeymoon wears off.  God can help you.  God can restore your feelings for him.  God can change him.  To talk this way, and to consider that you will have the right marriage if you leave and go to another man is not right.  It shows no faith in God... no faith at all.  When we walk contrary to the word of God in this life, the we are saying God is not the God of all for us... and we know more than He does about what is right for us and that His word is not true. 

I've been saved for almost 30 years,  married 22+.... you are not going to convince me that what you are thinking is the right and Godly way to go... you will be the one committing adultery.  And you will be dragging your friend from the past into it with you.  You have the truth, you have been given the truth, and you are accountable for that truth.  Past reading this, you won't ever be able to not KNOW the right thing to do.  Stay in your marriage and draw close to God for your healing.  The other man does not belong to you, He belongs to someone else, God has someone planned for him, and God knows who that is, and it's not an already married woman.  If you come to him, you come to him SHORT of the will of God, in sin and compounding it for you, drawing him in.  Is that the kind of marriage you wish on him?  One that dishonors God? 

   

[kensington]

BTW... you say your husband claims to be a Christian... 

Being married to an nonbeliever is NOT grounds for divorce.  READ THE WORD.  "If you are married to a nonbeliever who is content to stay with you, do not leave, your witness may be the reason they get saved. "   You are not the first Christian to be married to someone who may not be saved.  God is not changing the rules of marriage for you. 

[eveink]

Well, thank you for your responses. I made a mistake signing up for this forum - not because what you said is wrong, just the unfriendly and unloving way you have of expressing yourself.

[HRoberson]

In response to your question about your liaison at 16 being a marriage, the answer is no, it was not. But of course, I don't know all the details. On the face of it, it looks like teenage passion that got out of control. Happens all the time, really.

In response to your unasked question, "would it be OK if I dumped my current husband, and lived with my liaison?" the answer is again, no.

You seem to have three justifications for dumping your current husband:

1. You were really married to your liaison at 16
2. Your husband divorced his previous wife for un-Scriptural reasons and therefore wasn't really available to marry you.
3. Your husband isn't maintaining the level of interest and affection that you enjoyed while dating him.

We've addressed number 1, and the answer is that you were not married.

Whether you husband was available to marry you (2) is largely irrelevant. You married him, so you're married.

As to item 3, your husband is acting like a husband - or a wife. The courtship is normally full of attention and affection. We wouldn't hang around them if it wasn't. All marriages include a period of adjustment that includes a reduction in attention and affection. This is normal and is not indicative of the idea that yo should not have married him or that he has somehow been deceitful. This adjustment period is why many marriages don't last past the one year mark - we find out that we really aren't the center of the universe for our spouses, and we don't like it.

So, what to do......go see a Christian marriage or relationship counselor. Not your pastor, not your bartender (although both of those may have some wise things to offer), but a licensed marriage counselor who also has some theological training. Take your husband with you.

[His Princess]

I think that kensington and chosenone have answered you beautifully and completely.I don't think they were unkind in their answers either. I agree with all they said. When you were talking. At the beginning of your post about how you didn't really feel married because of how you and your husband got together, that's a lie of the enemy.there is grace and forgiveness there even if he divorced for wrong reasons.why don't you try loving him wholeheartedly and sweetly without expecting necessarily anmything in return. God will richly bless your marriage in ways you can't even imagine right now. 

[kensington]

Well, thank you for your responses. I made a mistake signing up for this forum - not because what you said is wrong, just the unfriendly and unloving way you have of expressing yourself.

We get that when we speak the truth rather than what people want to hear. But, If we tell you what you want, it goes against the GOD of Heaven and Earth who we swore our hearts to when He redeemed us from sin and saved our souls.  You are asking us to lie, and I can't do that for you, not for anyone.  If you read the word, you will find our answers line up with it...   you can't ask us to speak what is not true.  I'm sorry you feel we are unkind.  The reality is we cared enough about you to tell you the truth, we care for your soul and your husband's soul and the soul of the man you met at 16.  And we haven't even met you face to face...  you can't ask for more love than that.  PEACE.

[chosenone]

I agree with kensington, it is far more loving to tell the truth than it is to be all sympathetic and tell you that it is ok that you are wanting to leave your husband and be with someone else.It is clear to us that you are desperately wanting to find a reason to do this, and there isnt one.
I know that wasnt what you wanted to hear and I am also sorry if you felt we were being unloving but what did you want us to say?

I know a lady who wanted to divorce her husband for no Biblical reason and she told friends that she did, and made them think that her husband was this horrible person  just so that they would be all sympathetic and be on her 'side', and guess what, they were, and they encouraged her to seperate from him and to feel that it was ok to do this and to divorce him when she met someone else. This was totally against the Bibles instructions that a)wives should not seperate from their husbands and b)they shoudlnt divorce them for no reason, but no one told her these things. It all ended badly for her because the man who she wanted to marry never asked her, she committed adultery with him, and she is now still alone nearly 4 years later. Her ex husband however, it now hapily remarried (to me) and is the lovliest man ever who she has lied about and tried to discredit just becuase she wanted to get rid of him.
Just a bit of a warning from this story that if you do the right thing by God and your husband you will be blessed and if you dont , you wont be.
I hope that you are able to do the right thing and put all of your attentions back on to your marriage, and away from another man who can never be yours.
We do have to live with our decisions, and make the best of them and God can and will be there to help you to make this marriage work if you really want to.

[eveink]

This is supposed to be a Christian forum, so I find it kind of disturbing that no one mentioned a single Bible verse to support anything they said. I have done quite a bit of research and learning on the subject of marriage since my worries became more serious. I am unhappy with the responses that I received not because I am waiting for someone to bow down to my supposed desires to hear lies that go against the Bible, and I am upset that you would even assume such a thing. And I am not desperately searching for a reason to divorce my husband. Judgemental assumptions that others' intentions are so evil is also of the devil.

I didn't want to type up the whole miserable story for the world to read about why my marriage has fallen apart (or never existed) and I suppose that is why the responses I received were on the note that they were. I thought I should take my issue to the greater body since I just moved overseas and don't have a church yet and my husband refuses counseling - but apparently this wasn't a good idea.

I find it odd for someone to tell me that divorcing my husband in order to marry someone else would be a curse, insomuch as a remarriage would not be blessed. That's what my husband did in order to be with me, but according to you all is good and well, right? Wrong. So God's grace extends to him marrying me, but not in the case if I were to remarry? That is very contradictive, something that God's Word is not.

There's no need to respond further. I went to God myself and I have my answers.

[chosenone]

This is supposed to be a Christian forum, so I find it kind of disturbing that no one mentioned a single Bible verse to support anything they said. I have done quite a bit of research and learning on the subject of marriage since my worries became more serious. I am unhappy with the responses that I received not because I am waiting for someone to bow down to my supposed desires to hear lies that go against the Bible, and I am upset that you would even assume such a thing. And I am not desperately searching for a reason to divorce my husband. Judgemental assumptions that others' intentions are so evil is also of the devil.

I didn't want to type up the whole miserable story for the world to read about why my marriage has fallen apart (or never existed) and I suppose that is why the responses I received were on the note that they were. I thought I should take my issue to the greater body since I just moved overseas and don't have a church yet and my husband refuses counseling - but apparently this wasn't a good idea.

I find it odd for someone to tell me that divorcing my husband in order to marry someone else would be a curse, insomuch as a remarriage would not be blessed. That's what my husband did in order to be with me, but according to you all is good and well, right? Wrong. So God's grace extends to him marrying me, but not in the case if I were to remarry? That is very contradictive, something that God's Word is not.

There's no need to respond further. I went to God myself and I have my answers.

I dont think it is very helpful for you to say that we are saying things that may be of the devil! We were only giving advice that is in the Bible in many many places. As for verses, there are loads of them about committing adultery or fornication. Also about divorce for non Biblical reasons. Look in a good concordance .
As for your husbands marriage and divorce , that is past. he is responsible for this before God but you were asking about your own situation and what you should do.
I am glad that you have asked God, as that is what you need to do,but remember He will never contradict what He has said in the Bible.I have heard some people say that God has told them to do things that are totally the opposite to what the bible says, and he never does this, so as well as listening to him, also read what he has already said to us through His written word and the two will always agree if what you have heard is from God.

[chosenone]

This is supposed to be a Christian forum, so I find it kind of disturbing that no one mentioned a single Bible verse to support anything they said. I have done quite a bit of research and learning on the subject of marriage since my worries became more serious. I am unhappy with the responses that I received not because I am waiting for someone to bow down to my supposed desires to hear lies that go against the Bible, and I am upset that you would even assume such a thing. And I am not desperately searching for a reason to divorce my husband. Judgemental assumptions that others' intentions are so evil is also of the devil.

I didn't want to type up the whole miserable story for the world to read about why my marriage has fallen apart (or never existed) and I suppose that is why the responses I received were on the note that they were. I thought I should take my issue to the greater body since I just moved overseas and don't have a church yet and my husband refuses counseling - but apparently this wasn't a good idea.

I find it odd for someone to tell me that divorcing my husband in order to marry someone else would be a curse, insomuch as a remarriage would not be blessed. That's what my husband did in order to be with me, but according to you all is good and well, right? Wrong. So God's grace extends to him marrying me, but not in the case if I were to remarry? That is very contradictive, something that God's Word is not.

There's no need to respond further. I went to God myself and I have my answers.

i never said it would be a curse, but only that in my experience of things people have done , he doesnt seem to bless those marriages where people have been unfaithful or left their spouses for someone else or whatever it was Did you know that marriages where one spouse hs left someone else to be with this present person are far more likely to fail than those where this hasnt happened?. this maybe proves the point that they arent blessed.He cant bless us when we are disobedient can he?

We can only go on what you have told us cos we arent mind readers. If you had come here and said that he has had numerous affairs or whatever, our advice would have been totally different.

[kensington]

This is supposed to be a Christian forum, so I find it kind of disturbing that no one mentioned a single Bible verse to support anything they said. I have done quite a bit of research and learning on the subject of marriage since my worries became more serious. I am unhappy with the responses that I received not because I am waiting for someone to bow down to my supposed desires to hear lies that go against the Bible, and I am upset that you would even assume such a thing. And I am not desperately searching for a reason to divorce my husband. Judgemental assumptions that others' intentions are so evil is also of the devil.

I didn't want to type up the whole miserable story for the world to read about why my marriage has fallen apart (or never existed) and I suppose that is why the responses I received were on the note that they were. I thought I should take my issue to the greater body since I just moved overseas and don't have a church yet and my husband refuses counseling - but apparently this wasn't a good idea.

I find it odd for someone to tell me that divorcing my husband in order to marry someone else would be a curse, insomuch as a remarriage would not be blessed. That's what my husband did in order to be with me, but according to you all is good and well, right? Wrong. So God's grace extends to him marrying me, but not in the case if I were to remarry? That is very contradictive, something that God's Word is not.

There's no need to respond further. I went to God myself and I have my answers.

First of all, you came here, we did not go out and find you and stick our noses in to your marriage.  You came here.  Second...  Cortinthians is where Paul teaches on Bible and Jesus taught it in the gospels.  READ THE WORD.  Each post you post to us, confirms you are not searching for truth, you are searching for permission to sin.  It's not there... it's not here... it's not anywhere.  You married your husband, and now accuse him of sin in marrying you.  If it was sin for him, it will be sin for you.  His sin is in the past, and you are married to him now. 

If you think that I did not mention scripture... then you need to read the BIBLE and my posts again.  I told you about the woman Jesus found to have been married 5 times...  (John 4:16-18)and he told her to stop sinning, to receive the water He has for her.  Now, that is where you and your husband are.  He has done what he did, and you are seeking to do the same thing...   I say to you, you have a husband, you are married, and your husband has had 2 wives and is married to you...  (THIS IS WHERE YOU ARE NOW) .. that is EXACTLY what Jesus told the woman in the BIBLE.  You say you have read it, and researched it... BUT...  you missed the passages on do divorce for the believer?  You missed the passages where Jesus spoke to this woman who had 5 husbands and was in a relationship of fornication?  How is that?  Did you miss (Revelation 21)  where Jesus says that "No adulterers" will get into Heaven?   He means, people who know the truth, as you now do, who continue to seek after marriages that don't belong to them.  Did you miss (Hebrews 10:26-31)?  Where he says that those who continue to "WILLFULLY" sin can lose their salvation and stand judgment, even face the fire that is to consume the enemies?  That passage is for believers who decide what they want to do is more important than what the Bible says even though they know what it says and claim to believe it. 

A wife is married to her husband as long as he lives.  Except in the case of adultery...   not yours his... and not his where he was already getting a divorce and you married him.  If He cheats on you, then you could have grounds for divorce.  But,  AND I MENTIONED THIS SCRIPTURE TOO... "if you are married to a non believer who is content to stay with you, stay with them, do not divorce, because they could be saved due to your witness"...  (I Corinthians 7).

I've spoken nothing but the word to you, but you didn't see it...  Do you read the Bible?  I spoke much scripture to you.  I spoke scripture to you right from the first post I made to you.  I posted truth to you in faith. You continue to reject it because you want to excuse your actions.  But, you wil be wrong... you will be in sin if you leave your husband for a nother man.  You will be committing adultery. 

You said your husband pretended to be a Christian and married you,  but you married him too.  And that means you married a nonbeliever, that is on you.  But, according to the Apostle Paul ... it is NOT reason for divorce.  You are to stay.  (Corinthians 7)  You keep blaming your husband for marrying you, and you take no responsibility for yourself.  You are already in the middle of an affair emotionally with the other man. You are already in sin.  You are lying to yourself and your husband... sin again.  You are lying about what the word says... sin again.  You are denying the LORD to be LORD of your life by searching out ways to NOT do what he asks of you.. sin again.  You said the things we told you from the word was from the devil... you are on the verge of blasphemy.  How badly do you really want this man?  Enough to go to Hell for it?  Go ahead...  I can't stop you... But I have warned you.  As does the WORD, the LORD and evidently your conscience or you wouldn't be so up in arms about hearing the truth.

Read the BIBLE about those who reject the truth for a lie...  this is where you are right now.  (Romans 1:18-19)...  Read (Romans 7:14-18)  and see what God means about right in us verses wrong by the word.  Read Romans 6:1-7 and see how we are supposed to be dead to sin and these questions should not be a conflict for us.

You are mad at your husband because he was getting a divorce before you met him?  And then he married you?  But, you married him also.  And if you married a nonbeliever, you are married to them.  I Corinthians 7 again.

Jesus speaks on divorce in Matthew 19....  verse 9...  "But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife except for immorality and marry another, commits adultery"... Jesus said that.  Your husband has not cheated on you... you married him full well knowing he was divorced.  He has not cheated on you with another woman...  you have no cause for divorce. 

I have just repeated everything I said to you to begin with... with scripture references... and again, you know the truth.  No one contridicted the word... the difference is that YOU KNOW the truth, and your husband had already done what he did BEFORE you married him, YOU cannot hold him in judgment for that, to marry another.  That is not your job.  But, you already know that you will be committing adultery to leave him and remarry.  Sorry...  but you asked.  You want to use his sin .... to excuse you sin...  Can you show me where that is in the BIBLE?  I've shown you where it says that you will be wrong to divorce him. 

You can only divorce him for the adultery he commits against you... not any that he committed to someone else to marry you.  BUT... didn't you say he was divorcing already when you met him?  Thus he did not cheat on her, divorce her to marry you...  but if any one could divorce him it would be her... and she already did.  Now you are married to him...  In the LORD.  WHY?  Because you are a believer.  You are a believer aren't you?  If so, then the WORD is for you.. and I have given you the word.  From the beginning. 

[chosenone]

All of the advice that was given to you was Biblical. We wouldnt have said it otherwise.
Both I and my husband are divorced and are now married to each other (obviously) and I have looked deepy into teh teaching on divorce and remarriage and what the Bible says on it,and have heard many different people teach on the subject. I also have loads of experience of marriages that have been destroyed after one spouse committed sexual immorality including both my husbands first marriage and also my first marriage, and several marriages in our families also, and the BIble is very clear on what is and is not  allowed as far as being unfaithful is concerned. 
This is the advice that you were given.
i truly hope that your marriage will be blessed. It says in proverbs whan talking about marriage  "may you be blessed with the rewards of fidelity" That is an indication that we will be blessed if we are faithful to our spouses, even if we are tempted not to be..

[eveink]

Wow. That's a lot of finger pointing and accusations. And again, so many assumptions that I can barely count them. Maybe you should read the forum rules again. And maybe you should also read the Bible again before you send people to hell with your words.

[chosenone]

Wow. That's a lot of finger pointing and accusations. And again, so many assumptions that I can barely count them. Maybe you should read the forum rules again. And maybe you should also read the Bible again before you send people to hell with your words.

So if you ask something and are then given answers acording to the Bible, that is finger pointing is it? People  can only go on what you have told them cant they?
I know that it isnt easy to hear what we dont want to hear. I am sure that has happened to all of us at some point, but do you want the truth or do you want to be told that it is ok to do what you want? its your choice. 

[kensington]

Wow. That's a lot of finger pointing and accusations. And again, so many assumptions that I can barely count them. Maybe you should read the forum rules again. And maybe you should also read the Bible again before you send people to hell with your words.

Did you not come here and ask us what you should do?  Did you not come here and seek to know what we think... maybe you should read the forum rules before you come and assume that if you say "please" we will tell you it's okay for you to sin.  Maybe that is the point...  You wanted your husband and you got him, now you want this other man and you are set on getting him, you just aren't used to people telling you NO... are you? 

If you think we broke any forum rules, report us...  Trust me, the mods here are not asleep and they would let us know. 

I told you... if you REALLY want to go off in the sin of adultery and fornication... go ahead. We can't stop you.  But, if you want to know what the word says... then we have given you that.  You are accountable for what you have learned here.  God knows we told you the truth. He knows that you know the truth.  You cannot just go in sin and blame us because we didn't say it in a way that you liked.  We told you truth. 

But, I'll tell you what... go ahead and blame me if you decide to do this sin... see how that goes for you.  I'll take the blame... if you really think God will blame me when you divorce your REAL husband to seek someone you had sex with as a teen.  Somehow, I just don't think the "the Christians made me do it" defense will work, just because I did not say "Sweetie or honey pie" when I served you truth.  But, you are welcome to try. 

Jesus says what you think are grounds for divorce and remarriage is "SIN"...  That is the bottom line. 

[k-pappy]

eveink, before you accuse everyone here of being judgmental, please look at what you wrote and try to see it with an outside eye.  From the outside, it seems like you are trying to find a reason to divorce your husband now that you have been reunited with your first love.  There has been little in the way of scripture because there is no scripture to support what you want to do.

I may be way off base, so please permit me to ask the following questions:

1)  Has your husband ever abused you in any way?
2)  Has your husband ever been unfaithful to you in any way?

Above all, please be patient...some people here my be a little too straight and forward, but there is a lot of good advice presented here.

You will be in my prayers.

In Christ,
KP

[kensington]

Oh K-pappy...  You flatter me.  "Too straight forward" with the truth when "ASKED"?

I suppose I can deal with the honor... since Jesus and John the Baptist too were "too straight forward".  God Bless.

How are you by the way... I see your pick and you look nothing like I imagined! LOL...  I do recognize those coveralls though.  LOL.  Keep up the good work sailor!  I still hope you and my husband can meet one day!  He was home for Thanksgiving but won't be home for Christmas...  our first Christmas without each other in 22 1/2 years.  Oh well, it was bound to happen once in his career.  Merry Christmas to you. :)

PS... is there anything from "HOME" you'd like to have this Christmas?  I'd be glad to sen it, from my family to you!

[Sherman Nobles]

eveink,

Welcome to the forum and I'm sorry that you've felt judged and condemned through various posts thus far; it's likely most did not mean it to come across that way. Writing is a very limited means of communication; things often comes across much harsher than what the author intended. 

Anyhow, you might find the following thread helpful. 
Marriage, Divorce, & Remarriage
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php/topic,20182.0.html

In 2000 I came across some information that revolutionized my understanding of what Jesus said.  Basicly, I found out that Jesus was in Mt. 19 explaining the reason Moses was inspired to legislate the bill of divorce - to stop men from expelling their wives and yet retaining right over/to them and not allowing them to go on with their lives, leaving them in a terrible position legally and socially.  The modern day Jewish Agunah problem is related to this.  In the ancient near-east a man could expell his wife from his care, but she still belonged to him (was bound/chained to him).  The purpose of the bill of divorce was to legally free her to marry another man.  Deut. 24:1-4 is where the bill of divorce was legislated for the nation of Israel. 

There is so very much to explain that I encourage you to read the thread previously mentioned. 

For example, biblically a couple is married by Covenant (OT) and Law (NT), both of which reflect that MDR is under civil authority.  Sexual intercourse does not constitute marriage in either the OT or NT. Marriage is a covenant/contract that is governed by limited civil authority. 

Well, I'll write more when I can.

Blessings,
Sherman

[kensington]

I read that thread, and that is a lot of type written word Sherman.   I think the simple question begs a simple answer..  If she leaves her husband whom she is married to, so that she can marry the other man whom she wants... is it biblical?  The simple answer is, NO... it is adultery.  And it doesn't matter what her husband did before she met and married him.  He married her, and she married he in good faith.  To call that "not marriage" now that another man has entered the picture, is a lie.  God Bless.

[His Princess]

I read that thread, and that is a lot of type written word Sherman.   I think the simple question begs a simple answer..  If she leaves her husband whom she is married to, so that she can marry the other man whom she wants... is it biblical?  The simple answer is, NO... it is adultery.  And it doesn't matter what her husband did before she met and married him.  He married her, and she married he in good faith.  To call that "not marriage" now that another man has entered the picture, is a lie.  God Bless.

I absolutely agree.  You've stripped away all the hype and pared it down to simple facts.  There's no way around it.

[k-pappy]

Oh K-pappy...  You flatter me.  "Too straight forward" with the truth when "ASKED"?

I suppose I can deal with the honor... since Jesus and John the Baptist too were "too straight forward".  God Bless.

How are you by the way... I see your pick and you look nothing like I imagined! LOL...  I do recognize those coveralls though.  LOL.  Keep up the good work sailor!  I still hope you and my husband can meet one day!  He was home for Thanksgiving but won't be home for Christmas...  our first Christmas without each other in 22 1/2 years.  Oh well, it was bound to happen once in his career.  Merry Christmas to you. :)

PS... is there anything from "HOME" you'd like to have this Christmas?  I'd be glad to sen it, from my family to you!

Ha!  Well, I don't have the beard anymore...that was for a MWR fundraiser during our last deployment.  I missed Thanksgiving, but get Christmas with my family.  We are going to Tokyo after New Year's...should be fun!  I appreciate the offer, btw.  I will be in Guam next month and will pick up some missed items...if you do not mind I will take a rain check though?

In Christ,
KP

[kensington]

Anytime!

[Sherman Nobles]

I read that thread, and that is a lot of type written word Sherman.   I think the simple question begs a simple answer..  If she leaves her husband whom she is married to, so that she can marry the other man whom she wants... is it biblical?  The simple answer is, NO... it is adultery.  And it doesn't matter what her husband did before she met and married him.  He married her, and she married he in good faith.  To call that "not marriage" now that another man has entered the picture, is a lie.  God Bless.

I'm glad you read the thread.  If you recall, I noted in there that Jesus specifically said that to divorce one spouse in order to marry another is committing adultery.  However, Eveink, in her original post, mentioned several things that underscored her confusion over the basic principles of MDR, confusion caused by some of the errant principles of the traditional doctrine and the emotional challenges she is facing (feeling decieved by her current husband and thus questioning the viability of a marriage built upon deception, feeling somewhat guilty over having any part in the demise of his first marriage, and feeling emotionally distanced from her husband and "re-attached" to the love of her youth).   

This web of feelings and errant beliefs is keeping her from making wise decisions.  It's my hope that the thread I mentioned might help clear up some of this for her if she reads through it.  Sometimes, simple directives just don't meet the needs that people have.  Information and grace empowers people to make wise decisions.  Rules/directives rarely empower people to make wise decisions, much less empower then to have right attitudes.  In fact, if one's attitude is negative, one can "obey" a directive and still end up with a negative result.  However, if one's attitude is right, makeing wise decisions and actually living out those wise decisions is much easier.

In other words, my desire is to empower Eve to make wise decisions and live wisely, not to just tell her what to do. 

For example, one thing not addressed by anyone in this thread, that I recall, is the viability of her current marriage.  Apparently, her current husband married her under false pretences, pretending to be a Christian.  Is a marriage based on false pretences a viable marriage?  Are marriage vows binding when they are made under false pretences?  In other words, if her husband is really not a Christian, but pretended to be so in order to marry Eve because he knew her requirements for marriage, does such deception by her husband free her from any sense of commitment to him before God?  In the Catholic Church this would be grounds for an Annulment - a declaration that the "marriage" was never a viable marriage to begin with.

[kensington]

Talk about contributing to the confusion.. In your sincere efforts to appear to be mentally superior and more intelligent or learned than the rest of us posting to this forum, just compounds the problem.  As I see it..  If you read the OP as you suggested we may have missed a point, you would see, she is simple in her type, using plain terms and speaking on the basic level of language... just like the rest of us.

Your academic level of human discussion closes understanding. IMO.

But, to the point you got around to making eventually... I did address her marriage and the viability of it.  It's a valid marriage... I addressed that twice.  The first time I told her the truth... they were together for for long enough for her to have examined him, and to search out if he was the king of man she wanted to marry. 

Second...  the WORD is specific concerning Belivers who marry.  We are warned to not become unequally yoked with someone, but NO WHERE are we given that as a reason to leave or abandon marriage.  Not at all.  INfact... Paul goes head on to teach if you are "MARRIED TO AN UNBELIEVER" then you do not leave... they may leave, but you do not leave.

I'm sorry, she said he was in the process of divorcing when she met him...  so at that point, she had choices, and she made them.  She is as accountable to those choices as he is.  His trying to be what she wanted him to be so she would marry him does not make him a liar... and even if he was, it is not grounds for divorce.

The fact that the Catholic church would allow that, just validates my already high level of disregard for their doctrines... because, it's not biblical.  It's not in the word.  Paul taught to be content in whatever state you are in... at the time.  So, for her... at this time, she is married to a man she knew long enough to marry.  Don't you wonder, if this OTHER man had not come back into the picture if she would be searching out a divorce from this husband she is bound to?  I do.  She did not imply in any way that she had second thoughts about her marriage until after she realized she still loved her first love. 

Finding ways to excuse her out of her marriage, is not helping her.  Unless her husband has been sexually immoral in THIS marriage... she is married. Are you suggesting that she now become a Catholic so she can claim to have an invalid marriage and divorce?  I wonder what Jesus would call that?...  Oh yeah... He would call that adultery.

[chosenone]

Talk about contributing to the confusion.. In your sincere efforts to appear to be mentally superior and more intelligent or learned than the rest of us posting to this forum, just compounds the problem.  As I see it..  If you read the OP as you suggested we may have missed a point, you would see, she is simple in her type, using plain terms and speaking on the basic level of language... just like the rest of us.

Your academic level of human discussion closes understanding. IMO.

But, to the point you got around to making eventually... I did address her marriage and the viability of it.  It's a valid marriage... I addressed that twice.  The first time I told her the truth... they were together for for long enough for her to have examined him, and to search out if he was the king of man she wanted to marry. 

Second...  the WORD is specific concerning Belivers who marry.  We are warned to not become unequally yoked with someone, but NO WHERE are we given that as a reason to leave or abandon marriage.  Not at all.  INfact... Paul goes head on to teach if you are "MARRIED TO AN UNBELIEVER" then you do not leave... they may leave, but you do not leave.

I'm sorry, she said he was in the process of divorcing when she met him...  so at that point, she had choices, and she made them.  She is as accountable to those choices as he is.  His trying to be what she wanted him to be so she would marry him does not make him a liar... and even if he was, it is not grounds for divorce.

The fact that the Catholic church would allow that, just validates my already high level of disregard for their doctrines... because, it's not biblical.  It's not in the word.  Paul taught to be content in whatever state you are in... at the time.  So, for her... at this time, she is married to a man she knew long enough to marry.  Don't you wonder, if this OTHER man had not come back into the picture if she would be searching out a divorce from this husband she is bound to?  I do.  She did not imply in any way that she had second thoughts about her marriage until after she realized she still loved her first love. 

Finding ways to excuse her out of her marriage, is not helping her.  Unless her husband has been sexually immoral in THIS marriage... she is married. Are you suggesting that she now become a Catholic so she can claim to have an invalid marriage and divorce?  I wonder what Jesus would call that?...  Oh yeah... He would call that adultery.

My thoughts on reading  Sherman nobles post were exactly what you said and that is that he is just confusing the situation. The fact is that they are married. Maybe she should have noticed that he wasnt really acting like a Christian, maybe he was  good at acting, but the fact is that they are now married, and unless he committs sexual immorality she cannot Biblically divorce him.

[avenger]

HRoberson said - In response to your unasked question, "would it be OK if I dumped my current husband, and lived with my liaison?" the answer is again, no.

You nailed it sir, that is in a nutshell what she came here seeking permission and/or justification for.  I do not understand why folks think their intentions won't become clear as a bell, then they get angry when the answers they get are not the one's they wanted.

Avenger 

[chosenone]

HRoberson said - In response to your unasked question, "would it be OK if I dumped my current husband, and lived with my liaison?" the answer is again, no.

You nailed it sir, that is in a nutshell what she came here seeking permission and/or justification for.  I do not understand why folks think their intentions won't become clear as a bell, then they get angry when the answers they get are not the one's they wanted.

Avenger 

You have a good point.

[Sherman Nobles]

Talk about contributing to the confusion.. In your sincere efforts to appear to be mentally superior and more intelligent or learned than the rest of us posting to this forum, just compounds the problem.  As I see it..  If you read the OP as you suggested we may have missed a point, you would see, she is simple in her type, using plain terms and speaking on the basic level of language... just like the rest of us.

"efforts to appear to be mentally superior and more intelligent or learned" - my original post was not to you, but was written to eveink.  If you don't see the complexity of issues and feelings she's dealing with, oh well.  But there is no reason for you to make such a judgemental statement concerning my "efforts".  And if you're having a difficult time understanding my posts, maybe you should just not read them.

Your academic level of human discussion closes understanding. IMO.

Of course, you're welcome to your opinion. 

But, to the point you got around to making eventually... I did address her marriage and the viability of it.  It's a valid marriage... I addressed that twice.  The first time I told her the truth... they were together for for long enough for her to have examined him, and to search out if he was the king of man she wanted to marry. 

So you believe her current marriage is valid.  But of course, it really doesn't matter what you believe; what matters is whether it's a valid marriage before the Lord and in her heart and that's for her to decide, not you or me. 

She apparently questions the validity of her marriage because: 1) he is a divorce' that divorced for questionable reasons.  The traditional doctrine of the church would then call into question her current marriage.  Some would go so far as to say that her marriage is not viable and she's living in adultery.  I don't believe that, but that's likely the doctrine of her church and family.

2) He married her under significant false pretences.  The validity of any contract/covenant is questionable if it was entered under false pretences.  For example, if the man was still legally married and yet married her, is she then bound before God in marriage?  I don't believe so.  If the man was truly pretending to be a Christian and yet was only pretending so that she would marry him, if such is the case then she is not bound before God to stay in the bondage of that relationship. 

3) Apparently she questions what marriage is and when the marriage covenant is established, for she questions whether or not she is really married to the first man she was intimate with.  As you likely agree though, intimacy does not establish a marriage covenant.

Second...  the WORD is specific concerning Belivers who marry.  We are warned to not become unequally yoked with someone, but NO WHERE are we given that as a reason to leave or abandon marriage.  Not at all.  INfact... Paul goes head on to teach if you are "MARRIED TO AN UNBELIEVER" then you do not leave... they may leave, but you do not leave.

Of course, Paul is not addressing marriages entered under false pretences.  Rather, Paul is addressing existing marriages where one of the spouses become a Christian.

I'm sorry, she said he was in the process of divorcing when she met him...  so at that point, she had choices, and she made them.  She is as accountable to those choices as he is.  His trying to be what she wanted him to be so she would marry him does not make him a liar... and even if he was, it is not grounds for divorce.

The fact that the Catholic church would allow that, just validates my already high level of disregard for their doctrines... because, it's not biblical.  It's not in the word.  Paul taught to be content in whatever state you are in... at the time.  So, for her... at this time, she is married to a man she knew long enough to marry.  Don't you wonder, if this OTHER man had not come back into the picture if she would be searching out a divorce from this husband she is bound to?  I do.  She did not imply in any way that she had second thoughts about her marriage until after she realized she still loved her first love. 

Finding ways to excuse her out of her marriage, is not helping her.  Unless her husband has been sexually immoral in THIS marriage... she is married. Are you suggesting that she now become a Catholic so she can claim to have an invalid marriage and divorce?  I wonder what Jesus would call that?...  Oh yeah... He would call that adultery.

If you've read my other thread then you know that I disagree with you.  Adultery is not the only morally acceptable reason for divorce; so are abuse, abandonment, and a consistent refusal to fulfill one's expected covenant obligations.  Moses even directed divorce if a man decided to lessen or stop providing for his wife.   

Concerning her becoming a Catholic, please, you know I was suggesting no such thing, not that there would be anything wrong with her becoming a Catholic.   

And if you think I was trying to find a way to "excuse her out of marriage", you're sadly mistaken again.  I was simply trying to empower her to make wise decisions.  Whether she stays in that relationship or not is her decision, not mine nor yours.   

[CDHealy]

eveink:

You  haven't responded to this thread in several messages, and it is not hard to imagine why.

Let me, however, make a suggestion.  I suggest that you do not use these messages boards to guide you in your wrestling with the issue(s) you raised in the opening post.  Message boards are the worst possible forum to handle these matters, however much you may receive some wise and helpful words.

You can only really sort these things out with a gifted pastor and/or counsellor.  I would highly, highly recommend talking through these matters, though given the volatile nature of them, perhaps you should talk them through with a pastor/counselor first, but ultimately with your husband.

I have always thought the opening  up of marriage and sexual relations threads on these forums have been a huge huge mistake, and this sort of thing only confirms it.

[Sherman Nobles]

eveink:

You  haven't responded to this thread in several messages, and it is not hard to imagine why.

Let me, however, make a suggestion.  I suggest that you do not use these messages boards to guide you in your wrestling with the issue(s) you raised in the opening post.  Message boards are the worst possible forum to handle these matters, however much you may receive some wise and helpful words.

You can only really sort these things out with a gifted pastor and/or counsellor.  I would highly, highly recommend talking through these matters, though given the volatile nature of them, perhaps you should talk them through with a pastor/counselor first, but ultimately with your husband.

Good advice CDHealy.