Question about divorce

[mommabrownbear]

Ok so I have been a Christian for a little over a year now.  I left my husband just before being saved.   Legally we are still married, but I couldn't see myself going back to him.  I know it says in the bible that except for adultery you shouldn't divorce.  Is that the only reason??  My husband is an alcoholic, and can be very abusive when he drinks.  I decided that I needed to get myself and my daughter out of that situation, it was not good for either of us.  Is this going against what God wants me to do?

[Memphis Dwight]

Well if your husband hates you, then he is required by biblical precept to divorce you.  Now you won't hear this from many, but it is true.  But you want to ask yourself, am I being the wife that I should be?  Because if you are not, then his hating you and divorce will not be his wrong but rather yours.  You know in your heart of hearts whether or not it is him that is failing to be a good husband or yourself. 

As far as his drinking goes, that is his business.  The wife is not to be a ruler over her husband. 

His abuse?  Is it verbal?  Is it physical.  Because the latter is something you need to get away from.  The former is a different matter and  I would suggest you do some serious praying. 

And the child.  The biblical pattern for divorce is laid out in Deut 24:1.  The wife is given the bill of divorce, in her hand, and is sent out.  Not the child.  You have no God given right to allow the courts to take a man's family from him.  Regardless of how mean he is.  God will deal with your husband if he is in the wrong.   The wife does not have the right to have the children included in the 'cutting off' in divorce. 

I pray that you work this out and do everything according to God's will.   

[Sherman Nobles]

Mommabrownbear,

In short, it's your decision whether or not to divorce your husband.  Through his alcoholism and abuse your husband is unfaithful to you and your marriage covenant.  Thus you are morally free to divorce him if you believe that's the best thing to do for your daughter and for him.  Many times love must be tough and hold others accountable for their actions. 

As you noted, many believe that the only viable reason for divorce is adultery; however, such is a misinterpretation of scripture.  If you're interested and think it might be helpful, you can read the following thread which reviews briefly the various scriptures, concepts, and doctrines concerning MDR.
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php/topic,20182.0.html

Blessings,
Sherman

[cristals mama]

His abuse?  Is it verbal?  Is it physical.  Because the latter is something you need to get away from.  The former is a different matter and  I would suggest you do some serious praying.   

wrong- verbal abuse (true verbal abuse, not just a difference of opinion or mutual bad attitudes) can kill- it kills from the inside without leaving visible bruises but can be just as deadly!   As the Bible says and this is only one example:  "the power of life and death is in the tongue".  The old school yard chant "stick and stones...." is a huge bunch of untrue garbage, when your spirit is crushed over and over it is truly devastating in many ways- I know from 1st hand experience.

Also, a women submitting to her husband has no relation to taking whatever abuse or inappropriate behavior he feels like dishing out- the husband also has a duty to love and protect his wife and when that is done in the example of Jesus then the love, respect and submission of the wife is a natural result!

[cristals mama]

Mommabrownbear,

In short, it's your decision whether or not to divorce your husband.  Through his alcoholism and abuse your husband is unfaithful to you and your marriage covenant.  Thus you are morally free to divorce him if you believe that's the best thing to do for your daughter and for him.  Many times love must be tough and hold others accountable for their actions. 

As you noted, many believe that the only viable reason for divorce is adultery; however, such is a misinterpretation of scripture.  If you're interested and think it might be helpful, you can read the following thread which reviews briefly the various scriptures, concepts, and doctrines concerning MDR.
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php/topic,20182.0.html

Blessings,
Sherman

and once again, God bless you Sherman!

[Quinn]

No advice, just support from someone who has been where you are now, and made it through the fog.  Hang in there, and take care of your precious child!
 

[k-pappy]

Ok so I have been a Christian for a little over a year now.  I left my husband just before being saved.   Legally we are still married, but I couldn't see myself going back to him.  I know it says in the bible that except for adultery you shouldn't divorce.  Is that the only reason??  My husband is an alcoholic, and can be very abusive when he drinks.  I decided that I needed to get myself and my daughter out of that situation, it was not good for either of us.  Is this going against what God wants me to do?

If he abused you in any way, stay away.  Abuse is abuse.  Period.  I will pray for you and your daughter.  May you find peace.

In Christ,
KP

[chosenone]

If he is REALLY abusive I would stay away, but I woudnt be thinking of divorce, certainly not so soon. I would pray and suggest that he get some sort of help to deal with his drinking, and tell him that if he does you will support him and maybe also get some help together.
It sounds as if he is ok when not drinking and I guess he is a man who you did love as you wouldnt have married him. Give him time, and let God work in the situation. He really can work miracles so dont give up without giving it some time and prayer. God can and does turn situations like this around.After all you have found Christ and he may do too if you keep on praying for him and trying.
Maybe if you go to a church you could ask one or two people there for their help and prayers for you both.

[LOVE2DAY]

A HUSBAND SHOULD LOVE HIS WIFE AS HIMSELF.
BUT STILL YOU ARE NOT SOPPOSE TO DIVORCE FOR THIS CAUSE.
NOW I'm NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD LIVE TOGETHER.


The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. 40 But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.
1 Cor 7:39-40 (KJV)


10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:

11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him
1 Cor 7:10-13 (KJV)


7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered
1 Peter 3:7

Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:21-30 (KJV)

editor for typo by admin

[His Princess]

Ok so I have been a Christian for a little over a year now.  I left my husband just before being saved.   Legally we are still married, but I couldn't see myself going back to him.  I know it says in the bible that except for adultery you shouldn't divorce.  Is that the only reason??  My husband is an alcoholic, and can be very abusive when he drinks.  I decided that I needed to get myself and my daughter out of that situation, it was not good for either of us.  Is this going against what God wants me to do?

I think chosenone had the best advice to give.  If this was a dangerous situation for you and your daughter, you should get out, like you have.  But wait and pray and see if things change.  God knows your heart and He will direct you.

[leeford]

Well if your husband hates you, then he is required by biblical precept to divorce you.  Now you won't hear this from many, but it is true.  But you want to ask yourself, am I being the wife that I should be?  Because if you are not, then his hating you and divorce will not be his wrong but rather yours.  You know in your heart of hearts whether or not it is him that is failing to be a good husband or yourself. 

As far as his drinking goes, that is his business.  The wife is not to be a ruler over her husband. 

His abuse?  Is it verbal?  Is it physical.  Because the latter is something you need to get away from.  The former is a different matter and  I would suggest you do some serious praying. 

And the child.  The biblical pattern for divorce is laid out in Deut 24:1.  The wife is given the bill of divorce, in her hand, and is sent out.  Not the child.  You have no God given right to allow the courts to take a man's family from him.  Regardless of how mean he is.  God will deal with your husband if he is in the wrong.   The wife does not have the right to have the children included in the 'cutting off' in divorce. 

I pray that you work this out and do everything according to God's will.  

Very interesting. I hadn't thought about the hate issue but I think you're right. And yes, taking children away from men is cliche' today. The courts seem to have a bias toward women and against men. It seems that to me it should be joint custody except in very rare situations.

[chosenone]

Well if your husband hates you, then he is required by biblical precept to divorce you.  Now you won't hear this from many, but it is true.  But you want to ask yourself, am I being the wife that I should be?  Because if you are not, then his hating you and divorce will not be his wrong but rather yours.  You know in your heart of hearts whether or not it is him that is failing to be a good husband or yourself. 

As far as his drinking goes, that is his business.  The wife is not to be a ruler over her husband. 

His abuse?  Is it verbal?  Is it physical.  Because the latter is something you need to get away from.  The former is a different matter and  I would suggest you do some serious praying. 

And the child.  The biblical pattern for divorce is laid out in Deut 24:1.  The wife is given the bill of divorce, in her hand, and is sent out.  Not the child.  You have no God given right to allow the courts to take a man's family from him.  Regardless of how mean he is.  God will deal with your husband if he is in the wrong.   The wife does not have the right to have the children included in the 'cutting off' in divorce. 

I pray that you work this out and do everything according to God's will.  

Very interesting. I hadn't thought about the hate issue but I think you're right. And yes, taking children away from men is cliche' today. The courts seem to have a bias toward women and against men. It seems that to me it should be joint custody except in very rare situations.

The children should be with whoevever does the main parenting unless there is a good reason why not. if they are older they should choose who they live with. My brothers children live with him becuase that is where they want to be(they are teenagers) after their mum left him for the man she was having her forth affair with.
My husband was forced to leave his home and his boys (they were 17 and 20 at the time) after his wife met someone else and and was  divorcing him, as she was never going to leave herself, so sometimes it is very unfair.
However if both parents are reasonable  there is usually a good compromise that can be reached.

[mommabrownbear]

If he is REALLY abusive I would stay away, but I woudnt be thinking of divorce, certainly not so soon. I would pray and suggest that he get some sort of help to deal with his drinking, and tell him that if he does you will support him and maybe also get some help together.
It sounds as if he is ok when not drinking and I guess he is a man who you did love as you wouldnt have married him. Give him time, and let God work in the situation. He really can work miracles so dont give up without giving it some time and prayer. God can and does turn situations like this around.After all you have found Christ and he may do too if you keep on praying for him and trying.
Maybe if you go to a church you could ask one or two people there for their help and prayers for you both.

I never really loved him, when we met I was young and stupid, I was only 18, and he was 28... I was at a bad point in my life, on drugs, and having multiple sex partners.  He got me pregnant though, and it hit me, that i needed to grow up and be responsible, I had a kid inside of me.  So I got off the drugs, and married the father of my child, because I felt it was the right thing to do.  I never really loved him though, it was just something I thought I had to do.   I grew out of the dumb party stage, but he never did and when he was still a drunk party boy at age 31 and abusing me, I had decided that it was best that I get me and my daughter out of that situation.  I have been trying to be nice to him.  Even though at this point I can't stand to be around him, he is still "daddy" to my daughter, and I will never take that away from her as long as she is safe.  He lives with his parents now, so I know she will be cared for and safe (even if it is be her grandparents) so she does see him, however, most of the time he chooses not to see her, he always has some excuse why he can't take her.  So... all the comments about how it's not fair to the father, I try not to make it that way, he is still her dad, and I am ALOT nicer than I should be with the situation but he doesn't really have an interest in seeing her...

[hiskid46]

Ok so I have been a Christian for a little over a year now.  I left my husband just before being saved.   Legally we are still married, but I couldn't see myself going back to him.  I know it says in the bible that except for adultery you shouldn't divorce.  Is that the only reason??  My husband is an alcoholic, and can be very abusive when he drinks.  I decided that I needed to get myself and my daughter out of that situation, it was not good for either of us.  Is this going against what God wants me to do?

Strong's Hebrew #7971 Shalach

*        The common word shalach translated as: " put away" or "putteth away" is (the same as       the Greek equivalent of the word apoluo) which means" to send, separate, send away or       leave," NOT divorce.
*        Used 878 times in the Old Testament.
*        13 times related to a separation in marriage or intimate relationship (not divorce).
*        865 times used in other ways.
*        Shalach NEVER meant divorce, but a "separation."

Book of Matthew 19, ( Matt 19 ) Bible Study on Divorce (Putting Away) and Remarriage.
As we study the Greek and Hebrew words in Matt 19 and Malachi 2 we will learn that "divorce" was NOT what Jesus was teaching about, but rather, "putting away" which is far different than divorce.
Book of Matthew 19, ( Matt 19 ) Bible Study on Divorce (Putting Away) and Remarriage.
As we study the Greek and Hebrew words in Matt 19 and Malachi 2 we will learn that "divorce" was NOT what Jesus was teaching about, but rather, "putting away" which is far different than divorce. The book of Matthew 19:10 continues with everyone "never marrying." We will learn what "Not all can receive 'THIS SAYING' (being single?)'" means, and the myth of the "exception clause."

By: Stephen Gola




Instant Printable PDF Download


Understanding what happened in Malachi 2:10-16 is KEY to understanding Matthew 19:3-12 ( Matt 19 ).

Malachi 2:16a reads, "For the Lord God of Israel says that HE HATES DIVORCE (putting away).

[chosenone]

Thanks hiskid I have heard the same thing about the words putting away and divorcing being different.

[elijah_101]

This is To HisKids46

Your Post does not Make any sense

Most of your Quotes has Nothing to Do with Divorce and Remarriage

Like Sending People away

Posted by hiskid46

Noe sending a Bird out...

(God giving Abraham the Promised Land)

(Moses delivering Israel from Egypt)

Joshua 6:25: (Rahab hid the Spies)

of the house of Elisha. And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go

Jesus feeds the Five Thousand

Man with/ 2000 plus Demons

Woman with the Issue of Blood

This is out of Context

These are The  Wonders of GOD


What you put on your Post...Needs More Studying Time

Divorce and Puting away is the Same ...

You cant Divorce...If you dont put them away

You Cannot Remarry...If you do not Get a Divorce

Eather way..You Commit adultery  if you Remarry...

The bible Does not Say Put away and remarry Luke 16:18

nor Does the Scripture Say..Divorce and remarry Matthew 19:9

If you Do you Commit Adultery...Luke 16:18

Please read the Scripture


They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you,

Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery:

and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Matt 19:7-9 (



What u say  Does not Bear record with the truth 1 John 4:1

Even in Mans law....You must Get a divorce to Put away your Wife or Husband

You cannot Remarry...If you do not get a Divorce

Romans 7 Is Self Explanatory...Bound Till DEATH do you PART!!!

For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband

So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man,

she shall be called an adulteress:

but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Romans 7:2-3

Even God said in Isaiah 50:1

Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away?

God made man...Heaven and Earth...You are Not God...

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. Romans 11:1

And so all Israel shall be saved: Romans 11:26-27

as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

[chosenone]

Elijah are you a mormon?

[fanuvmxpx]

Elijah are you a mormon?

And once you answer that, explain to us how leaving your wife for another woman, and not preparing a writ of divorce, is still divorce.

[SealedEternal]

Thanks hiskid I have heard the same thing about the words putting away and divorcing being different.

Actually if you read what scripture says you'll see that's a lie:

Matthew 19:3-8  Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"  And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,  and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?  "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."  They *said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?"  He *said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce (put away) your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

It was the Pharisees who taught that it was legal to "divorce" (put away) their wives as long as they filled out the proper paperwork, but Jesus never mentioned the paperwork issue as being relevent. He said that Moses "permitted" a man to put away his wife under the Old Covenant because of their hard heartedness, but stated that it was never God's original plan. Then He went on to state that those Old Covenant people who divorced for causes other than premarital fornication, which is what the Law of Moses allowed for, were committing adultery in remarriage because their divorces were not recognized by God, and they could not simply separate with paperwork what He had joined.

Matthew 19:9  "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for fornication, and marries another woman commits adultery. And the one who marries her who was put away commits adultery. "

Later when his disciples asked about the issue again, He stated that there are no exceptions whatsoever for New Covenant people:

Mark 10:10-12  And again, in the house His disciples asked Him about the same. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."

Matthew 19:10-12  The disciples *said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."  But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."

Even His own disciples were shocked to find out how the Pharisees had been misusing this Law and just how perminent the marriage covenant actually is, but the fact remains that according to Him "everyone" who divorces and remarries is entering an extramarital relationship and will not enter His Kingdom unless they repent (turn) from this sin and forsake the adulterous affair.

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.

[Tantor]

Well... you read a lot of your own doctrine into that which has already been proven to be false... so you wasted a lot of time.

[SealedEternal]

Well... you read a lot of your own doctrine into that which has already been proven to be false... so you wasted a lot of time.

It is the legalistic false doctrine of the Pharisees which is claimed to "true" here, saying that all God cares about is the legal paperwork being filed,  but Jesus absolutely refuted them and His doctrine is clear:

Genesis 2:21 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22 The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. 23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man." 24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

Malachi 2:13 "This is another thing you do: you cover the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping and with groaning, because He no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand. 14 "Yet you say, 'For what reason?' Because the LORD has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. 15 "But not one has done so who has a remnant of the Spirit And what did that one do while he was seeking a godly offspring? Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against the wife of your youth. 16 "For I hate divorce," says the LORD, the God of Israel, "and him who covers his garment with wrong," says the LORD of hosts. "So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously." 17 You have wearied the LORD with your words Yet you say, "How have we wearied Him?" In that you say, "Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and He delights in them," or, "Where is the God of justice?"

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. 24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. 28 So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30 because we are members of His body. 31 FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. 32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

Matthew 5:31-32 "It was said, 'WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE'; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Matthew 19:4-6 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'? "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

Mark 10: 6-12 "But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE. "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." In the house the disciples began questioning Him about this again. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.

[Tantor]

Sorry.. that's just your twist on it...

To say it is 'his' would require you to do a greek study on the passages since 'he' never spoke the Kings English.

Besides... the KJV is such a horrible version to base doctrine on.. it has so many errors it's not even worth studying anymore.

Seriously, if you are really that serious about it, you should research the Greek and Hebrew and go from there.. as all translations are done from a biased position.. and from based on my research of the KJV it's probably the most biased version ever.

Maybe we should adopt the Old Testament law and STONE the adulterer.. so it becomes a non-issue.

[SealedEternal]

Sorry.. that's just your twist on it...

To say it is 'his' would require you to do a greek study on the passages since 'he' never spoke the Kings English.

First of all I purposely only used His Word and didn't add any commentary so it can't be "my twist". Secondly His Word is clear on this issue in whatever language you read it in, and it is false teachers who always want to play games with words and languages to claim He really doesn't mean what He says. We will all be judged on the basis of His intent regarding those words above, so you can play games and tell yourself they don't mean what they say, but it's not going to change the truth.

SealedEternal

[Tantor]

Sorry.. that's just your twist on it...

To say it is 'his' would require you to do a greek study on the passages since 'he' never spoke the Kings English.

First of all I purposely only used His Word and didn't add any commentary so it can't be "my twist". Secondly His Word is clear on this issue in whatever language you read it in, and it is false teachers who always want to play games with words and languages to claim He really doesn't mean what He says. We will all be judged on the basis of His intent regarding those words above, so you can play games and tell yourself they don't mean what they say, but it's not going to change the truth.

SealedEternal

You do realize that the KJV was specifically translated to be in harmony with the then accepted Anglican doctrinal traditions.

So in essence, the KJV was twisted to fit the Anglican view of marriage..

FYI.. I get very offended by anyone saying that any english translation is his WORD.. because none of them are.

[SealedEternal]

Besides... the KJV is such a horrible version to base doctrine on.. it has so many errors it's not even worth studying anymore.

I didn't use the KJV, but all literal translations of those verses say the same thing so it's a moot point.

Seriously, if you are really that serious about it, you should research the Greek and Hebrew and go from there.. as all translations are done from a biased position.. and from based on my research of the KJV it's probably the most biased version ever.

I have, and those verses mean exactly what they say in the literal English translations.

Maybe we should adopt the Old Testament law and STONE the adulterer.. so it becomes a non-issue.

Why?

SealedEternal

[Tantor]

Besides... the KJV is such a horrible version to base doctrine on.. it has so many errors it's not even worth studying anymore.

I didn't use the KJV, but all literal translations of those verses say the same thing so it's a moot point.

Seriously, if you are really that serious about it, you should research the Greek and Hebrew and go from there.. as all translations are done from a biased position.. and from based on my research of the KJV it's probably the most biased version ever.

I have, and those verses mean exactly what they say in the literal English translations.

Maybe we should adopt the Old Testament law and STONE the adulterer.. so it becomes a non-issue.

Why?

SealedEternal

So the innocent person has a dead spouse and they are then free to marry anyone they like.... you know they did stone adulterers during Jesus time...

[chosenone]

Thanks hiskid I have heard the same thing about the words putting away and divorcing being different.

Actually if you read what scripture says you'll see that's a lie:

Matthew 19:3-8  Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"  And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,  and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?  "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."  They *said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?"  He *said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce (put away) your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

It was the Pharisees who taught that it was legal to "divorce" (put away) their wives as long as they filled out the proper paperwork, but Jesus never mentioned the paperwork issue as being relevent. He said that Moses "permitted" a man to put away his wife under the Old Covenant because of their hard heartedness, but stated that it was never God's original plan. Then He went on to state that those Old Covenant people who divorced for causes other than premarital fornication, which is what the Law of Moses allowed for, were committing adultery in remarriage because their divorces were not recognized by God, and they could not simply separate with paperwork what He had joined.

Matthew 19:9  "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for fornication, and marries another woman commits adultery. And the one who marries her who was put away commits adultery. "

Later when his disciples asked about the issue again, He stated that there are no exceptions whatsoever for New Covenant people:

Mark 10:10-12  And again, in the house His disciples asked Him about the same. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."

Matthew 19:10-12  The disciples *said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."  But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."

Even His own disciples were shocked to find out how the Pharisees had been misusing this Law and just how perminent the marriage covenant actually is, but the fact remains that according to Him "everyone" who divorces and remarries is entering an extramarital relationship and will not enter His Kingdom unless they repent (turn) from this sin and forsake the adulterous affair.

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.”

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

I Corinthians 6:9-10 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

SealedEternal

Actually Jesus said that if your spouse committs sexual imorality, you are free to divorce and thus remarry.

[SealedEternal]

So the innocent person has a dead spouse and they are then free to marry anyone they like.... you know they did stone adulterers during Jesus time...

I guess if you're hard hearted like the Old Covenant people and want to condemn those who wrong you so you can get your way, then that makes sense to you. If you have your heart renewed by Christ's Spirit and enter the New Covenant he can teach you to love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, etc.

SealedEternal

[SealedEternal]

Thanks hiskid I have heard the same thing about the words putting away and divorcing being different.

Actually if you read what scripture says you'll see that's a lie:

Matthew 19:3-8  Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"  And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,  and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?  "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."  They *said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?"  He *said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce (put away) your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

It was the Pharisees who taught that it was legal to "divorce" (put away) their wives as long as they filled out the proper paperwork, but Jesus never mentioned the paperwork issue as being relevent. He said that Moses "permitted" a man to put away his wife under the Old Covenant because of their hard heartedness, but stated that it was never God's original plan. Then He went on to state that those Old Covenant people who divorced for causes other than premarital fornication, which is what the Law of Moses allowed for, were committing adultery in remarriage because their divorces were not recognized by God, and they could not simply separate with paperwork what He had joined.

Matthew 19:9  "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for fornication, and marries another woman commits adultery. And the one who marries her who was put away commits adultery. "

Later when his disciples asked about the issue again, He stated that there are no exceptions whatsoever for New Covenant people:

Mark 10:10-12  And again, in the house His disciples asked Him about the same. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."

Matthew 19:10-12  The disciples *said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."  But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."

Even His own disciples were shocked to find out how the Pharisees had been misusing this Law and just how perminent the marriage covenant actually is, but the fact remains that according to Him "everyone" who divorces and remarries is entering an extramarital relationship and will not enter His Kingdom unless they repent (turn) from this sin and forsake the adulterous affair.

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.

[Tantor]

I cannot believe that Jesus would allow an innocent person to be held hostage for the rest of their lives for the behavior of another... it amounts to false imprisonment.

And the laws of this land allow the adulterer to pretty much get away with murder and put the innocent party in agony for the rest of their lives.

That is not the Jesus I know.

His statements were to address another time and culture that no longer exist.

[Sherman Nobles]

Actually, Jesus said that He fully endorsed the Mosaic Law, every word, every letter of it, thus including the bill of divorce.  Sadly, the Pharisees failed to embrace the purpose of and spirit behind the bill of divorce and significantly limited its potential good by only giving men the power to divorce their wives, but not giving women the power to either divorce their husbands or demand a divorce even it they were expelled and their husband married other women. 

The spirit behind the bill of divorce was compassion for the oppressed, and the purpose was to bring a proper legal end to an otherwise broken marriage, and to free expelled/abandoned women to marry again.

Sadly, this is still a problem in today's Judaism because today's Judaism is based on the Pharisees' "MIS-interpretation" of the Mosaic Law.  They've failed to realize that Moses put issues concerning MDR under Domestic authority primarily with limited Civil oversight for the nation of Israel - and NOT under Religious authority.

Even sadder - the church has traditionally done a similar thing through Misinterpreting what Jesus said by taking His words from their context and interpreting them to mean something He never intended.  Shoot, few, very few ministers or theologians have ever even heard of the Agunah problem - the problem of Jewish women who are bound, chained, enslaved to a broken relationship though her husband has remarried or ran off! Frankly, the traditional doctrine of marriage is based on ignorance -- ignorance of the Jewish culture in which, from which, and to which Jesus spoke, and ignorance of the character of Christ!

[elijah_101]

Thanks hiskid I have heard the same thing about the words putting away and divorcing being different.

Actually if you read what scripture says you'll see that's a lie:

Matthew 19:3-8  Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"  And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,  and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?  "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."  They *said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?"  He *said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce (put away) your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

It was the Pharisees who taught that it was legal to "divorce" (put away) their wives as long as they filled out the proper paperwork, but Jesus never mentioned the paperwork issue as being relevent. He said that Moses "permitted" a man to put away his wife under the Old Covenant because of their hard heartedness, but stated that it was never God's original plan. Then He went on to state that those Old Covenant people who divorced for causes other than premarital fornication, which is what the Law of Moses allowed for, were committing adultery in remarriage because their divorces were not recognized by God, and they could not simply separate with paperwork what He had joined.

Matthew 19:9  "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for fornication, and marries another woman commits adultery. And the one who marries her who was put away commits adultery. "

Later when his disciples asked about the issue again, He stated that there are no exceptions whatsoever for New Covenant people:

Mark 10:10-12  And again, in the house His disciples asked Him about the same. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."

Matthew 19:10-12  The disciples *said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."  But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."

Even His own disciples were shocked to find out how the Pharisees had been misusing this Law and just how perminent the marriage covenant actually is, but the fact remains that according to Him "everyone" who divorces and remarries is entering an extramarital relationship and will not enter His Kingdom unless they repent (turn) from this sin and forsake the adulterous affair.

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.

[chosenone]

Thanks hiskid I have heard the same thing about the words putting away and divorcing being different.

Actually if you read what scripture says you'll see that's a lie:

Matthew 19:3-8  Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"  And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,  and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?  "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."  They *said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?"  He *said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce (put away) your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

It was the Pharisees who taught that it was legal to "divorce" (put away) their wives as long as they filled out the proper paperwork, but Jesus never mentioned the paperwork issue as being relevent. He said that Moses "permitted" a man to put away his wife under the Old Covenant because of their hard heartedness, but stated that it was never God's original plan. Then He went on to state that those Old Covenant people who divorced for causes other than premarital fornication, which is what the Law of Moses allowed for, were committing adultery in remarriage because their divorces were not recognized by God, and they could not simply separate with paperwork what He had joined.

Matthew 19:9  "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for fornication, and marries another woman commits adultery. And the one who marries her who was put away commits adultery. "

Later when his disciples asked about the issue again, He stated that there are no exceptions whatsoever for New Covenant people:

Mark 10:10-12  And again, in the house His disciples asked Him about the same. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."

Matthew 19:10-12  The disciples *said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."  But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."

Even His own disciples were shocked to find out how the Pharisees had been misusing this Law and just how perminent the marriage covenant actually is, but the fact remains that according to Him "everyone" who divorces and remarries is entering an extramarital relationship and will not enter His Kingdom unless they repent (turn) from this sin and forsake the adulterous affair.

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.

[k-pappy]

Chosenone, would you mind sharing where you got your statistics?

I think your number is a little high.

Thanks!

In Christ,
KP

[chosenone]

Thanks hiskid I have heard the same thing about the words putting away and divorcing being different.

Actually if you read what scripture says you'll see that's a lie:

Matthew 19:3-8  Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"  And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,  and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?  "So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."  They *said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?"  He *said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce (put away) your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

It was the Pharisees who taught that it was legal to "divorce" (put away) their wives as long as they filled out the proper paperwork, but Jesus never mentioned the paperwork issue as being relevent. He said that Moses "permitted" a man to put away his wife under the Old Covenant because of their hard heartedness, but stated that it was never God's original plan. Then He went on to state that those Old Covenant people who divorced for causes other than premarital fornication, which is what the Law of Moses allowed for, were committing adultery in remarriage because their divorces were not recognized by God, and they could not simply separate with paperwork what He had joined.

Matthew 19:9  "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for fornication, and marries another woman commits adultery. And the one who marries her who was put away commits adultery. "

Later when his disciples asked about the issue again, He stated that there are no exceptions whatsoever for New Covenant people:

Mark 10:10-12  And again, in the house His disciples asked Him about the same. And He *said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."

Matthew 19:10-12  The disciples *said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."  But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."

Even His own disciples were shocked to find out how the Pharisees had been misusing this Law and just how perminent the marriage covenant actually is, but the fact remains that according to Him "everyone" who divorces and remarries is entering an extramarital relationship and will not enter His Kingdom unless they repent (turn) from this sin and forsake the adulterous affair.

Luke 16:18 "Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries one who is divorced from a husband commits adultery.