Dave Hunt A woman Rides the Beast

[Creationist]

A woman Rides The Beast by Dave Hunt, This video in my opinion was Excellent in the fact that it was well presented and that it was a very factual Doc By Dave Hunt about The Daniels prophecies and how they were fulfilled and also other prophecies in the bible and there irrefutable accuracy i should say. he also talks about the Fourth Beast that Represented Rome and How the woman Riding on the Beast was the Catholic church . In This 60min Program, Dave Hunt also Explains and Exposes the Roman Catholic Churches Past and also Secrets hidden within the church Itself and the Real Truth on system of The Catholic church and Its Teachings.

I hope You Christains/Protestants out there will love this Doc and Catholics ......well might Think again about Wat church the want to stay with.   (typos )

PLEASE TO DO NOT DEABATE OR ARGUE ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PLEASE KEEP YOU OPPINON TO YOURSELF FOR OTHER DISCUSSION, PLZ JUST VOTE BUT JUST DONT START UP ANY DEBATES PLZ.

Here is a Video on youtube it was uploaded by permission which it states at the beginning of the video.

v=[youtube=425,350]w5Ke7Tn3uOU[/youtube]

ENJOY Dave hunt Dave hunt Dave hunt Dave hunt ( cheering on)

[fanuvmxpx]

hey look its that false god guy again.

[Creationist]

Ok i have run a few numbers and the video will take at least 46.65 minutes to load half way while you watch the first half of the video the othe half will load up as well.

before you start the count down press play on the video wait for the video to star uploading then as soon as you hear or have visual of the video playing go back to 00.00 on they slide bar on the player and then press the pause button.

[katholikos]

.

Dave Hunt is a full-fledged liar. He tells so many blatant lies about Catholicism that I don't see how he can look himself in the mirror. Here is an mp3 of Karl Keating, president of Catholic Answers, confronting Hunt in person on a live show about his false statements: MP3 LINK


In his 1994 book, A Woman Rides the Beast, Hunt presents nine arguments to try to prove this. His claims are a useful summary of those commonly used by Fundamentalists, and an examination of them shows why they don't work.

 
#1: Seven Hills

Hunt argues that the Whore "is a city built on seven hills," which he identifies as the seven hills of ancient Rome. This argument is based on Revelation 17:9, which states that the woman sits on seven mountains.

The Greek word in this passage is horos. Of the sixty-five occurrences of this word in the New Testament, only three are rendered "hill" by the King James Version. The remaining sixty-two are translated as "mountain" or "mount." Modern Bibles have similar ratios. If the passage states that the Whore sits on "seven mountains," it could refer to anything. Mountains are common biblical symbols, often symbolizing whole kingdoms (cf. Ps. 68:15; Dan. 2:35; Amos 4:1, 6:1; Obad. 8–21). The Whore's seven mountains might be seven kingdoms she reigns over, or seven kingdoms with which she has something in common.

The number seven may be symbolic also, for it often represents completeness in the Bible. If so, the seven mountains might signify that the Whore reigns over all earth's kingdoms.

Even if we accept that the word horos should be translated literally as "hill" in this passage, it still does not narrow us down to Rome. Other cities are known for having been built on seven hills as well.

Even if we grant that the reference is to Rome, which Rome are we talking about—pagan Rome or Christian Rome? As we will see, ancient, pagan Rome fits all of Hunt's criteria as well, or better, than Rome during the Christian centuries.

Now bring in the distinction between Rome and Vatican City—the city where the Catholic Church is headquartered—and Hunt's claim becomes less plausible. Vatican City is not built on seven hills, but only one: Vatican Hill, which is not one of the seven upon which ancient Rome was built. Those hills are on the east side of the Tiber river; Vatican Hill is on the west.

 
#2: "Babylon"—What's in a Name?

Hunt notes that the Whore will be a city "known as Babylon." This is based on Revelation 17:5, which says that her name is "Babylon the Great."

The phrase "Babylon the great" (Greek: Babulon a megala) occurs five times in Revelation (14:8, 16:19, 17:5, 18:2, and 18:21). Light is shed on its meaning when one notices that Babylon is referred to as "the great city" seven times in the book (16:19, 17:18, 18:10, 16, 18, 19, 21). Other than these, there is only one reference to "the great city." That passage is 11:8, which states that the bodies of God's two witnesses "will lie in the street of the great city, which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified."

"The great city" is symbolically called Sodom, a reference to Jerusalem, symbolically called "Sodom" in the Old Testament (cf. Is. 1:10; Ezek. 16:1–3, 46–56). We also know Jerusalem is the "the great city" of Revelation 11:8 because the verse says it was "where [the] Lord was crucified."

Revelation consistently speaks as if there were only one "great city" ("the great city"), suggesting that the great city of 11:8 is the same as the great city mentioned in the other seven texts—Babylon. Additional evidence for the identity of the two is the fact that both are symbolically named after great Old Testament enemies of the faith: Sodom, Egypt, and Babylon.

This suggests that Babylon the great may be Jerusalem, not Rome. Many Protestant and Catholic commentators have adopted this interpretation. On the other hand, early Church Fathers often referred to Rome as "Babylon," but every references was to pagan Rome, which martyred Christians.

 
#3: Commits Fornication

Hunt tells us, "The woman is called a 'whore' (verse 1), with whom earthly kings 'have committed fornication' (verse 2). Against only two cities could such a charge be made: Jerusalem and Rome."

Here Hunt admits that the prophets often referred to Jerusalem as a spiritual whore, suggesting that the Whore might be apostate Jerusalem. Ancient, pagan Rome also fits the description, since through the cult of emperor worship it also committed spiritual fornication with "the kings of the earth" (those nations it conquered).

To identify the Whore as Vatican City, Hunt interprets the fornication as alleged "unholy alliances" forged between Vatican City and other nations, but he fails to cite any reasons why the Vatican's diplomatic relations with other nations are "unholy."

He also confuses Vatican City with the city of Rome, and he neglects the fact that pagan Rome had "unholy alliances" with the kingdoms it governed (unholy because they were built on paganism and emperor worship).

 
#4: Clothed in Purple and Red

Hunt states, "She [the Whore] is clothed in 'purple and scarlet' (verse 4), the colors of the Catholic clergy." He then cites the Catholic Encyclopedia to show that bishops wear certain purple vestments and cardinals wear certain red vestments.

Hunt ignores the obvious symbolic meaning of the colors—purple for royalty and red for the blood of Christian martyrs. Instead, he is suddenly literal in his interpretation. He understood well enough that the woman symbolizes a city and that the fornication symbolizes something other than literal sex, but now he wants to assign the colors a literal, earthly fulfillment in a few vestments of certain Catholic clergy.

Purple and red are not the dominant colors of Catholic clerical vestments. White is. All priests wear white (including bishops and cardinals when they are saying Mass)—even the pope does so.

The purple and scarlet of the Whore are contrasted with the white of the New Jerusalem, the Bride of Christ (Rev. 19:8). This is a problem for Hunt for three reasons: (a) we have already noted that the dominant color of Catholic clerical vestments is white, which would identify them with New Jerusalem if the color is taken literally; (b) the clothing of the Bride is given a symbolic interpretation ("the righteous acts of the saints;" 19:8); implying that the clothing of the Whore should also be given a symbolic meaning; and (c) the identification of the Bride as New Jerusalem (Rev. 3:12, 21:2, 10) suggests that the Whore may be old (apostate) Jerusalem—a contrast used elsewhere in Scripture (Gal. 4:25–26).

Hunt ignores the liturgical meaning of purple and red in Catholic symbolism. Purple symbolizes repentance, and red honors the blood of Christ and the Christian martyrs.

It is appropriate for Catholic clerics to wear purple and scarlet, if for no other reason because they have been liturgical colors of the true religion since ancient Israel.

Hunt neglects to remind his readers that God commanded that scarlet yarn and wool be used in liturgical ceremonies (Lev. 14:4, 6, 49–52; Num. 19:6), and that God commanded that the priests' vestments be made with purple and scarlet yarn (Ex. 28:4–8, 15, 33, 39:1–8, 24, 29).

 
#5: Possesses Great Wealth

Hunt states, "[The Whore's] incredible wealth next caught John's eye. She was 'decked with gold and precious stones and pearls . . . ' [Rev. 17:4]." The problem is that, regardless of what it had in the past, the modern Vatican is not fantastically wealthy. In fact, it has run a budget deficit in most recent years and has an annual budget only around the size of that of the Archdiocese of Chicago. Furthermore, wealth was much more in character with pagan Rome or apostate Jerusalem, both key economic centers.

 
#6: A Golden Cup

Hunt states that the Whore "has 'a golden cup [chalice] in her hand, full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.'" This is another reference to Revelation 17:4. Then he states that the "Church is known for its many thousands of gold chalices around the world."

To make the Whore's gold cup suggestive of the Eucharistic chalice, Hunt inserts the word "chalice" in square brackets, though the Greek word here is the ordinary word for cup (potarion), which appears thirty-three times in the New Testament and is always translated "cup."

He ignores the fact that the Catholic chalice is used in the celebration of the Lord's Supper—a ritual commanded by Christ (Luke 22:19–20; 1 Cor. 11:24–25); he ignores the fact that the majority of Eucharistic chalices Catholics use are not made out of gold, but other materials, such as brass, silver, glass, and even earthenware; he ignores the fact that gold liturgical vessels and utensils have been part of the true religion ever since ancient Israel—again at the command of God (Ex. 25:38–40, 37:23–24; Num. 31:50–51; 2 Chr. 24:14); and he again uses a literal interpretation, according to which the Whore's cup is not a single symbol applying to the city of Rome, but a collection of many literal cups used in cities throughout the world. But Revelation tells us that it's the cup of God's wrath that is given to the Whore (Rev. 14:10; cf. Rev. 18:6). This has nothing to do with Eucharistic chalices.

 
#7: The Mother of Harlots

Now for Hunt's most hilarious argument: "John's attention is next drawn to the inscription on the woman's forehead: 'THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH' (verse 5, [Hunt's emphasis]). Sadly enough, the Roman Catholic Church fits that description as precisely as she fits the others. Much of the cause is due to the unbiblical doctrine of priestly celibacy," which has "made sinners of the clergy and harlots out of those with whom they secretly cohabit."

Priestly celibacy is not a doctrine but a discipline—a discipline in the Latin Rite of the Church—and even this rite has not always been mandatory. This discipline can scarcely be unbiblical, since Hunt himself says, "The great apostle Paul was a celibate and recommended that life to others who wanted to devote themselves fully to serving Christ."

Hunt has again lurched to an absurdly literal interpretation. He should interpret the harlotry of the Whore's daughters as the same as their mother's, which is why she is called their mother in the first place. This would make it spiritual or political fornication or the persecution of Christian martyrs (cf. 17:2, 6, 18:6). Instead, Hunt gives the interpretation of the daughters as literal, earthly prostitutes committing literal, earthly fornication.

If Hunt did not have a fixation on the King James Version, he would notice another point that identifies the daughters' harlotries with that of their mother: The same Greek word (porna) is used for both mother and daughters. The King James Version translates this word as "whore" whenever it refers to the mother, but as "harlot" when it refers to the daughters. Modern translations render it consistently. John sees the "great harlot" (17:1, 15, 16, 19:2) who is "the mother of harlots" (17:5). The harlotries of the daughters must be the same as the mother's, which Hunt admits is not literal sex!

 
#8: Sheds the Blood of Saints

Hunt states, "John next notices that the woman is drunk—not with alcohol but with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus . . . [cf. verse 6]." He then advances charges of brutality and killing by the Inquisitions, supposed forced conversions of nations, and even the Nazi holocaust!

This section of the book abounds with historical errors, not the least of which is his implication that the Church endorses the forced conversion of nations. The Church emphatically does not do so. It has condemned forced conversions as early as the third century (before then they were scarcely even possible), and has formally condemned them on repeated occasions, as in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 160, 1738, 1782, 2106–7).

But pagan Rome and apostate Jerusalem do fit the description of a city drunk with the blood of saints and the martyrs of Jesus. And since they were notorious persecutors of Christians, the original audience would have automatically thought of one of these two as the city that persecutes Christians, not an undreamed-of Christian Rome that was centuries in the future.

 
#9: Reigns over Kings

For his last argument, Hunt states, "Finally, the angel reveals that the woman 'is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth' (verse 18). Is there such a city? Yes, and again only one: Vatican City."

This is a joke. Vatican City has no power over other nations; it certainly does not reign over them. In fact, the Vatican's very existence has been threatened in the past two centuries by Italian nationalism.

Hunt appeals to power the popes once had over Christian political rulers (neglecting the fact that this was always a limited authority, by the popes' own admission), but at that time there was no Vatican City. The Vatican only became a separate city in 1929, when the Holy See and Italy signed the Lateran Treaty.

Hunt seems to understand this passage to be talking about Vatican City, since the modern city of Rome is only a very minor political force. If the reign is a literal, political one, then pagan Rome fulfills the requirement far better than Christian Rome ever did.

[tinker]

Very good video.Since we started Bible study and have a clearer understanding of the Gospel and about salvation, my family who were Roman Catholics have been converted to Christianity. Thank you Lord Jesus.             

[katholikos]

Very good video.Since we started Bible study and have a clearer understanding of the Gospel and about salvation, my family who were Roman Catholics have been converted to Christianity. Thank you Lord Jesus.             

Sorry to bust your bubble, but Catholics ARE Christians. Your statement is not based in reality. Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today's Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)  Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history. Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church's divine origin. Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church's leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.


If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2).

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn't mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23).  But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus' Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20).  For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28).  Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius's time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2).

These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary's special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself.

Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Man's ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man's effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20).

He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus' authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.

[sopranette]

Again with the seven hills and Rome! *sigh*

Vatican Rome is not the city built on seven hills.  Jerusalem is.  Look through the Theology section, and it's been discussed ad nauseum already.

love,

Sopranette

[Creationist]

THIS IS NOT THE TOPIC TO DEBATE

[Creationist]

Here is the place to Debate on the Video.

Rules .

PLZ NO POINTLESS PERSONAL AGRUEMENTS THAT GO ON FOREVER
DONT GO OF TOPIC STAY ON
NO CALLING PPL CUTLTIST , HERITICS ECT

[sopranette]

Oh, a poll.  That makes it so much better.

love,

Sopranette

[Creationist]

I now in my heart that Hunt speaks the truth i have no doubt that he speaks the truth when i hear his voice i hear the truth just like Jesus altho i havent heard his voice i hear what the bible has to say and i read truth, but when i hear wat the Catholic Traditions say i hear Lies and i hear antilove .
But that is MY opinion im not saying thats the Truth but in my mind it is the Truth no one can change IT !

[rezar]

I now in my heart that Hunt speaks the truth i have no doubt that he speaks the truth when i hear his voice i hear the truth just like Jesus altho i havent heard his voice i hear what the bible has to say and i read truth, but when i hear wat the Catholic Traditions say i hear Lies and i hear antilove .
But that is MY opinion im not saying thats the Truth but in my mind it is the Truth no one can change IT !

The woman riding the Beast is apostate Israel (1st century) she's the harlot. There is none other.
It's 1st century Jerusalem. Figuratively called Sodom & Egypt & literally "where the Lord was crucified."

[Creationist]

But why would god call the city of god Jerusalem when you guys say that it would be the harlot it does not make not make any sense when compared to The alternative The Catholic Church , honestly think logically for one second.

Look i don't have anything against Catholic PPL i just don't like their traditions and there opinions

[katholikos]

I now in my heart that Hunt speaks the truth i.....

Hunt is a liar

[Amo]

Sorry to bust your bubble, but Catholics ARE Christians. Your statement is not based in reality. Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today's Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)  Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history. Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

Even if all of the above statement were true, which it is not, it would prove nothing concerning the authenticity of the Church of Rome.  The Jews of Jesus' day made the same claim.  They could boast of a longer and more exact lineage than the Church of Rome will ever be able to, and be speaking the absolute truth.  Yet John the Baptist gave them the following warning, which is every bit as applicable to the Church of Rome today, as it was to the Jews of Jesus Day.

Matt 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

The age of a Church means nothing.  It's lineage means nothing.  It's adherents to the word of God alone proves the authenticity of any Church claiming to represent Christ in this world. 

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church's divine origin. Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church's leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

Baloney.  The history of the Church of Rome testifies to the exact opposite effect.  That is, that she relied on the power and militaries of the kings of the earth for her survival and exaltation in this world.  Murdering, torturing, and imprisoning countless millions that would not bow to her authority.  How dare you attribute these actions to the Holy Spirit of God.  The Church of Rome is that apostate Christian institution which first replaced the power of the Holy Spirit, with the power of the state.  Thus she has always sought, and does continually seek adulteress relationships with the kings of this earth.  Thus to date she has established diplomatic relationships with almost all the governments of this earth.  This very thing IS that which BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH, is said to do in biblical prophecy.

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

No other religion on earth has been, or is, as politically active and intertwined with the kings and governments of this earth, than the Church of Rome.

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church of Rome therefore, obviously does not qualify.

[rezar]

  Boy, I've never seen such junk as you posted by that fella Hunt. First & foremost, he has no Biblical exegesis to be found. He lifts some chapters from Revelation (the most symbolic book in the Bible, but nowhere can he compare scripture to scripture. He ignores all the OT eschatological prophecies AND the entire N.T. at that also!
He misses a very important premise, if not the whole premise of the tale of the 2 Jerusalems. Spoken by Isaiah & spoken by St.Paul, & especially spoken by Jesus.

I can't stop laughing at the claim about the "cup" held by the woman on the Beast being compared to the eucharist! My head is spinning, I never heard THAT one before. If it wasn't so pathetic (from his tunnel vision) I'd copy it for a good laugh over to my preterist buddies on another site!

First of all, Jesus wept over Jerusalem- not Rome!
The "cup" of the harlot (Israel of the flesh) in Rev17-her drunk with the blood of the saints & the martyrs of Jesus is a parallel & the fulfillment of (for the cup was "now" full -in Rev.) to Mt.23:29-36,
29 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, 'If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.'
31 "Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (emph. mine)

Maybe you should re-read Isaiah 65& 66. It's about the faithful remnant of Israel (the descendants of Jacob) the children of the promise, in contrast with Israel of the flesh only (the Jerusalem that was "now"- in Paul's days, in bondage with her children).
In Isa.65, God says he would create a new heavens & a new earth- a Jerusalem with rejoicing. This is the new heaven & new earth which would be under the Messiah. This would be the church!
Notice in Isaiah 65:15,16 God says: 15 You shall leave your name as a curse to My chosen;
      For the Lord GOD will slay you,
      And call His servants by another name;
       16 So that he who blesses himself in the earth
      Shall bless himself in the God of truth;
      And he who swears in the earth
      Shall swear by the God of truth;
      Because the former troubles are forgotten,
      And because they are hidden from My eyes. (emph. mine)

And what praytell do you think or conclude was that other name? Christian! correct!
That's right. God ended his theocratic relationship with Judaism in AD70.

Abraham, Isaac & Jacob sat down at the one time celebration (the Wedding Feast of the Lamb)- the sons of the Kingdom-
as opposed to what the Master of the house (Jesus speaking a parable in front of the leaders of the synagogue)-
27 But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.' 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. 29 They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last.

[katholikos]

  Boy, I've never seen such junk as you posted by that fella Hunt......

Junk is right. Like I said, Dave Hunt tells so many blatant lies about Catholicism that I don't see how he can look himself in the mirror. Here is an mp3 of Karl Keating, president of Catholic Answers, confronting Hunt in person on a live show about his false statements: MP3 LINK

Even if all of the above statement were true, which it is not, it would prove nothing concerning the authenticity of the Church of Rome.....

Well it is true. Whether you believe it or not is neither here nor there

[kensington]

In Revelation 17, John sees a gaudy dressed prostitute on a beast with seven heads and ten horns (vs4). That is a pretty significant fact,  the indication that early in the rule of the Antichrist, apostate or false religion symbolized by the prostitute, will play a major role in uniting the world under the Antichrist.  As beast comes into prominence, the apostate church or false religion will seek to promote world unity apart from  the moral values and principles of the Word of God.  The apostate church, that supports eastern mysticism and non- Christian philosophy, will seek to express her aims through political power: a union with the Antichrist.

I believe the Catholic Church will be the prostitute/woman on the beast.   The woman is a religious system...  that will be corrupted after the Anti Christ comes on the scene. The leader will fall for his lies and help him to deceive millions of peoples to follow him and to receive His mark due to their trust of this religious leader.  What religion has that kind of leader?  The Catholic Church. This church will play a major role in uniting the world under the Anti Christ.  No other religion has the means to reach that far.  Some have said it will be the Muslim religion in the last few years, but that won't be, because the world will not have a trust for them, due to the things they have perpetrated against mankind.

The seven heads are interpreted to be the seven Hills, as well as kings and kingdoms, Some Bible scholars believe this to be Rome,, the place from where the false religion is directed in the last days, scholars have traced the movement of very ancient Babylonian mystery religions to Rome.  They note that certain pagan practices were incorporated in to Christian beliefs, creating confusion, and blurring biblical requirements for Christian living.

The traditions of men over the centureies has replaced the commandments of the Word of God. In fact, error has been in the church from it's earliest days, but the tendency among many Christian Churches today is to reject the Bible standard and to substitute a host of other man made options. This practice will increase quickly as the doctrine of dvils finds it's way into the false religion system of the world. It will reach it's height as Satan's agent sows his doctrines and wins the admiration of the earth's masses. The amount of success the false system has achieved and is yet to achieve is indicated in Revelation 17:15.

"The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages"   The angel interprets this plainly for you.

Then a very dramtic change of mind and policy comes about, and the beast and the prostitute part company. As the Beast turns against the false religious system and will destroy it completely. (Vs 16).  The Antichrist will become the supreme symbol of worship and the false prophet will lead the multitudes of people to complete commitment to him. No one will be able to function without supporting the ungody policies of Satan's agent. And, with the ten leaders of the end-time coalition supporting him, the Antichrist's system will have what appears to be universal control until God's word is fulfilled. The prostitute is said to be the city that exercises control over the leaders of the earth (vs 18).

It cannot be Israel/Jerusalem since Israel seems to have more enemies than friends and the Jewish faith does not surround have global implications nor control kings and kingdoms. The Jewish faith cannot be the false religion and the chosen people whom the LORD shuttles away to Petra to hide for a time and a time until the nations of the world march under the Antichrist against them and He returns to defend them. It can't be both.  You cannot dismiss the whole of the Revelation that way to prove it. The apostate church will have one leader.. only one religion has a leader who is seen and recognized around the world, the Catholic Church.

However, I can never understand why Catholics get so distraught over the facts of the Revelation, since it's clear it all takes place after the Antichrist comes on the scene, and the true church, the believers are gone from the earth.  The restrainer is gone... which is the church, the body of Christ, the visable church through which the Holy Spirit moves. Anyone truly saved, won't be here.  After that, what happens to any religion on earth isn't our concern... God has said He will keep us out of it. He does.  If you are a truly saved Catholic then it doesn't concern you.

[katholikos]

....I believe the Catholic Church will be the prostitute/woman on the beast.....

Not only is that wrong, and not only is that a poor interpretation of the scriptures, but it is also highly insulting. Thank God most protestants don't share that POV.

Anti-Catholics frequently identify the beast with a future "restored Roman Empire," which they also wish to connect in one way or another with the Catholic Church.  To find out who the beast really is, one has to take a serious look at the text in question. Often people reason like this: The beast has ten horns and rises from the sea (13:1). In Daniel 7, the prophet Daniel saw a series of four beasts rising from the sea, the last of whom had ten horns (Dan. 7:7). Therefore, John's beast is the same as the fourth beast of Daniel. That beast symbolized the Roman Empire. Therefore, this beast symbolizes the Roman Empire.

One problem with this reasoning is that it focuses only on part of the symbolism in Revelation 13. Not only does the beast John sees have ten horns, like Daniel's fourth beast, it also has a body like a leopard (13:2a), like Daniel's third beast (7:6), feet like a bear's (13:2b), like Daniel's second beast (7:5), and a mouth like a lion, like Daniel's first beast (7:4). The beast John sees thus incorporates symbolism from all of Daniel's four beasts, making it impossible to simply identify it with the fourth of the series.

This is part of the "fusion imagery" which Revelation contains. Just as John saw angels around God's throne (4:6-8) which incorporated elements of both Isaiah's seraphim (Is. 6:2-3) and Ezekiel's cherubim (Ezek. 10:10-14), now he sees a beast which incorporates elements of all the Daniel 7 beasts. This suggests that the new beast is like those four—the same kind of thing as they are—but not to be identified with any one of them.

Another problem is that Daniel's fourth beast does not symbolize the Roman Empire—at least not as its primary referent. Instead, its main referent is the kingdom that resulted when Alexander the Great's kingdom fell apart.

Among the horns of Daniel's fourth beast arose one particular little horn who blasphemed God (7:8). This little horn symbolizes Antiochus IV ("Antiochus Epiphanes"), the Selucid king who conquered Jerusalem, blasphemed God, and desecrated the temple, and set up the first "abomination of desolation" (Dan. 11:31, 12:11, 1 Macc. 6:7) by setting up an idol of Jupiter Olympus in the holy place. (There are other times an "abomination of desolation" is set up, cf. Matt. 24:15-16, Luke 21:20-21.)

What Daniel's four beasts have in common is that they are all pagan kingdoms that persecuted and conquered God's people, Israel. John's beast is the same kind of thing—a conquering pagan empire. Since it comes after Daniel's four beasts, Rome is the logical candidate. But it's not a future, "restored Roman Empire." It's the real thing, the pagan Roman Empire of the early centuries. This is confirmed by several lines of evidence.

First, the book of Revelation is explicit in stating that it concerns events that will happen "soon" (1:1, 2:16, 3:11, 22:6, 7, 12, 20). This indicates that the bulk of the events of the book (those that precede the Millennium of Rev. 20:1-10, in which we are now living) should take place shortly after the book was written, likely in the A.D. 60s.

Second, we are told that the number of the beast is 666 and that this is the number of a man's name (13:18). Not coincidentally, the persecuting, pagan Roman Empire was headed in the A.D. 60s by Caesar Nero, whose name happened to add up to 666 in the Hebrew system of letters and numbers. (In Hebrew, "Caesar Nero" = "NRWN QSR" = N 50 + R 200 + W 6 + N 50 + Q 100 + S 60 + R 200 = 666; a variant spelling of the name, NRW QSR, adds up to 616, which some manuscripts have in place of 666).

Third, the seven heads of the beast are identified as seven mountains (17:9). Though this is not certain, these are likely the seven hills on which the city of Rome was built. (Vatican Hill, however, was not one of the seven; it is on the side of the Tiber River opposite the seven.)

Thus there is good evidence that the beast from the sea is the pagan Roman Empire of the first century and, in particular, the emperor at its head. This, again, is like Daniel's four beasts, who were described both as four kings (Dan 7:17) and four kingdoms (cf. Dan. 7:23).

Further confirmation is found in Revelation speaking of the Jewish temple as if it were still operating (11:1), but soon to be trampled by the gentiles, along with the holy city (11:2). Shortly after Nero's reign, the gentiles did indeed invade Jerusalem, trample it, and destroy the temple.

This suggests not only that the beast corresponded to the Roman empire in general and Caesar Nero in particular but also that the book of Revelation itself was written sometime in the early A.D. 60s, during Nero's reign, just before the Jewish War that led to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in A.D. 70.

[kensington]

The Vatican rules Rome...  Insulting towards who... are you the Pope?  Are you Rome?  Are you the Vatican?

DO NOT try to take biblical discussion and turn it into some personal thing that becomes a battle of words...  It won't get us anywhere. 

I plainly said, If you are a true believer, you won't be here when it happens and it has nothing to do with you.  You cannot be insulted by something that has nothing to do with you, unless you choose to take that on yourself. No one insulted you...

[sopranette]

Good job, Katholikos!  Very accurate. 

love,

Sopranette

[kensington]

BTW... I believe what I believe, and I don't believe that any of that you posted has much at all to do with future events, the antichrist, the apostate church, and the religious leader who deceives the masses to follow the Antichrist...  

I just don't.  Sorry...  I have studied this on the secondary level and I'm not intimidated by someone saying... "That is wrong"...  at all.  God Bless.  

BTW... I am not "anti-Catholic"... I could be termed "anti-Catholicism"... but not anti Catholic.  I love Catholics, I really do, I am related to a bunch of them... and I married one after he got saved. I should probably post the videos of his testimony here too. 

[katholikos]

The Vatican rules Rome... 

LOL. Now THAT is just dumb. Rome is the Capitol of Italy. Vatican City State is a seperate sovereign nation. Prime Minister Berlusconi would be the man in charge of the city of Rome.

Insulting towards who... are you the Pope?  Are you Rome?  Are you the Vatican?

Insulting towards me, yes. The pope, like any other Christian, is my brother in Christ, and he's yours too. Maybe you should have a more Christian attitude towards him.

DO NOT try to take biblical discussion and turn it into some personal thing that becomes a battle of words...  It won't get us anywhere....

I'd say you did just that when you insulted the largest Christian Church in the world. You probably broke a forum rule too. I'm going to read them again to see.

And by the way, I gave a detailed BIBLICAL explanation  which pretty much destroyed your POV. But I guess you missed that part.

[katholikos]

Good job, Katholikos!  Very accurate. 

love,

Sopranette

Thank you. I appreciate that

[kensington]

Go ahead... and while you are at it, go on into the Catholic forum and see that things like that are said all the time. 

I did not insult the Catholic church to imply that the system (according to Revelation)  will become the religion of the world ruler known as the Antichrist who is to come.  It's not the church today that will become the apostate, it is those who are left here when the church is taken out, and the Holy Spirit is not restraining evil. 

Hey... if I'm wrong and it turns out to be the Baptist or the A/G church, I won't be insulted one bit... cause I know it won't pertain to me, it's a future event, that involves mankind choosing evil over the Word of God... no matter what religion they are. 

I did not insult "the Pope"..  I nor you will know who is leading the apostate church when the time comes.  He may be a pope, he may be someone who steps in and deceives the people, calling himself the pope.  But, I believe it is the Catholic system that enables this to happen and gives the people trust in Satan's agent. They follow him because he represents a form of godliness that is not of God. Will that be the Pope? Maybe... Will it be this Pope?  No one can say.

I don't believe that you did destroy my point of view... you posted some remarks that states a different point of view... but it did not destroy my point of view.   

[katholikos]

What kind of Christian goes out of their way to be rude to people and then justify their rudeness. Is that how the Holy Spirit works in your life? I feel sorry for you.

[kensington]

What kind of Christian goes out of their way to be rude to people and then justify their rudeness. Is that how the Holy Spirit works in your life? I feel sorry for you.

What kind?  You tell me... you said this... I didn't. 

You need to take a deep breath.  You seem to think this forum is where you post your truth and no one can disagree.  It's not.  This forum is for all Christians who want to post here. I am one. I did not go out of my way to insult you.. I have not insulted you...  I posted to the topic, and you didn't like it, you took insult to it... that is your choice.  I'm not insulted that you posted all that you did.  I don't take it personal at all... It doesn't change my mind, but I'm not the least bit insulted by it.  Peace.

[katholikos]

What kind of Christian goes out of their way to be rude to people and then justify their rudeness. Is that how the Holy Spirit works in your life? I feel sorry for you.

What kind?  You tell me... you said this... I didn't. 

You need to take a deep breath.  You seem to think this forum is where you post your truth and no one can disagree......

YOUR kind, thats what kind.

You posted a long post. I posted a long rebuttle. Thats great.

But as in the other threads, that isn't good enough for you. You proceed to make ridiculous remarks because you can't stand that you were bested by a Catholic: "The Vatican rules Rome", blah blah blah. Your anti-Catholicism drips from your tounge like the venom it is. You call my Church "The Beast" and then right after that you tell me that I "cannot be insulted by something that has nothing to do with you."

Oh, suuurrre, why should I be insulted that my Church and my faith is referred to as the beast? What in the world was I thinking? Give me a break.

Its sad that there are always one or two of your kind in every forum, anti-Catholic bigots. I've seen them all my life. Your just another of their ilk.

[kensington]

Your church is not the Beast... you need to read it again.  That is not what I said.

"Their ilk"?   Are you kidding me? ...  That is just nuts.  As in silly.  LOL.  Name calling...   

[sopranette]

What I don't understand if so many of us agree that we are in the Last Days, then shouldn't we be trying to unite to continue the Great Commission, by finding some common ground between all of our brothers and sisters?  It's a waste of time to be bickering about such petty stuff!  And all the unbeliever sees is a faith so full of squabbling, he wants nothing to do with any of it.

love,

Sopranette

[kensington]

What I don't understand if so many of us agree that we are in the Last Days, then shouldn't we be trying to unite to continue the Great Commission, by finding some common ground between all of our brothers and sisters?  It's a waste of time to be bickering about such petty stuff!  And all the unbeliever sees is a faith so full of squabbling, he wants nothing to do with any of it.

love,

Sopranette

I agree that we should be pressing on in the Great Commission. But, finding a common ground is not the great commission,  going into all the world and preaching salvation to the lost is. And yes.. we should be looking for every chance to do that daily.  To see a lost soul saved, to see a sinner repent and find forgiveness, to bring in the harvest for Jesus... not for religions or denoms. 

But, to lift up the oppressed and to feed the hungry...  I'm for that.  To preach deliverance to those who are bound.  To set the captives free.  To be laying on of hands and praying for the sick.  To offer ourselves to those in need where we can if it will show them the LOVE of GOD.

Yet, I'm not going to feel guilty about what I believe or think or post in a posting forum set up for just that.  That's not Jesus... 

[tinker]

Very good video.Since we started Bible study and have a clearer understanding of the Gospel and about salvation, my family who were Roman Catholics have been converted to Christianity. Thank you Lord Jesus.             

Sorry to bust your bubble, but Catholics ARE Christians. Your statement is not based in reality. Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today's Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)  Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history. Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church's divine origin. Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church's leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.


If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2).

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn't mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23).  But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus' Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20).  For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28).  Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius's time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2).

These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary's special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself.

Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Man's ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man's effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20).

He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus' authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.

I only know that the Church the lord Jesus founded has existed all these time. The Church consist of his true followers and he is the Chief High Priest. All others spurious claims by any religion I do not recognised.  You say you are a Christian,and you say your religion is divine and 2000 yr old as per your post,so you are trying to userp Lord Jesus rightful place as head by using your religion?

[broach972]

THIS IS NOT THE TOPIC TO DEBATE

Sorry, but this should be debated.  You just don't introduce a video about a book that has been debunked even by the strongest of anti-Catholics and simply say "Don't Debate".  This book is a joke and serious intellectuals could never take it seriously.

[antiaging]

Very good video.Since we started Bible study and have a clearer understanding of the Gospel and about salvation, my family who were Roman Catholics have been converted to Christianity. Thank you Lord Jesus.             

Sorry to bust your bubble, but Catholics ARE Christians. Your statement is not based in reality. Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today's Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)  Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history. Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church's divine origin. Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church's leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.


If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches (Lutheran, Baptist, Anglican, and so on). The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2).

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn't mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23).  But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus' Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20).  For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28).  Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius's time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2).

These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary's special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself.

Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Man's ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man's effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20).

He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus' authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.

Not sorry to burst your bubble, but Roman catholicism started in about 313 AD with the edict of Constantine. There were Christian churches in existence before Roman catholicism was invented.
The Roman emporer Nero (reigned from AD 54-68) regarded Christianity as a threat because Christians would not recognize Caesar as a god. If Christianity would spread, he would lose control of the people. Nero paid spies to set up false Christian churches, (many were in Jewish Synagogues), to lure true Christians into these churches so that they could be arrested and killed. Under orders from Nero, his spies, pretending to be Christian, set fire to the city of Rome. This was done to justify the massacre of the true christians; the fire was blamed on the Christians and they were to be put to death in the arenas. For over 200 years following this, Rome persecuted Christians and killed them, but Rome was unable to stop Christianity. The Roman emporer Constantine, (reigned from AD 306-307 took advantage of the growing wave of Christianity by saying that he had become a Christian. He issued an edict of Tolerance proclaiming that Christianity is to be tolerated and it is to be accepted as the new Roman religion. This is the true beginning of the Roman catholic church and it happened long after Peter was dead. Peter died somewhere around AD 67. When Peter was alive, there was no Roman Catholic church. When Peter was alive, Nero was killing Christians in the arenas as enemies of the State of Rome.
The Roman Empire was never converted to true christianity. The emporer
Constantine and his servents created a new state religion for Rome that
was a mixture of pagan Roman religious tradition mixed with christianity
and they called it catholicm. Only this false Roman form of christianity
was to be allowed by the state of Rome. The true christians that
practiced Christianity the way that the Bible says to do it, were hunted
down by the Roman state and killed. The true christians realized that
satan had created a murderous religious monster (catholicism) and tried
to call it christian. The true christians ran for the hills. By the time that the protestant reformation was about to start, the catholic church had become so corrupt, that they were torturing and murdering people, in inquisitions, to steal their lands and properties, the pope got half and the king of Spain got the other half. Any real Christian, that knew the true teachings of Christ in the New Testament, could easily see that the catholic hierarchy was evil and corrupt and catholicism was not a real Christian church. That is why the protestants, that were in the catholic church, broke away from it and returned to the original teachings of the New Testament to find true Christianity. There were always isolated groups of Christians that followed the New Testament from the first century onward, and they were never members of the catholic church. These are the ones that Rome tried to hunt down and kill and they ran for their lives and hid out in isolated places. They had the original unaltered Old and New Testament, the massoretic text, later compiled by the massoretes, and the byzantine or textus receptus new testament. These texts were copied word for word and handed down as parchiaments got too old. The real texts, of the real unchanged original scriptures were translated into middle English in the King James bible.
Let a cardinal himself tell you about roman catholicism.
Cardinal Newman admits in his book that; the "temples,
incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, Holidays, and
seasons of devotion, processions, blessings of the fields,
sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests, munks and nuns),
images, and statues... are all of PAGAN ORIGIN." The Development of the Christian Religion Cardinal Newman
p.359


The vatican has been lying for centuries to claim Peter as the first pope, and to claim that he is buried at the vatican.
Read this book:
Peter's Tomb Recently Discovered in Jerusalem, published by F. Paul Peterson, P O Box 7351, Ft. Wayne IN 46807, copyright 1960

Research the book, THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE JESUITS, by catholic French historian Edmond Paris; it shows details of how the jesuits instigated world wars 1 and 2. Hitler was catholic.
The Jewish holocaust [IT WAS AGAINST THE JEWISH RELIGION, NOT THE RACE.] was one of their latest inquisitions. Catholic president Diem of Viet Nam had an inquisition against the bhudists in the vietnam era of the 6os.
Alberto Rivera, former Jesuit priest, said they are planning a future inquisition.
Get on google and research, THE EXTREME OATH OF THE JESUITS.

[Creationist]

THIS IS NOT THE TOPIC TO DEBATE

Sorry, but this should be debated.  You just don't introduce a video about a book that has been debunked even by the strongest of anti-Catholics and simply say "Don't Debate".  This book is a joke and serious intellectuals could never take it seriously.

i tried to post a topic for debating o the video .