Plane Crash

[Mystery Man]

I can see that in David's heart he had a plan to get rid of him, allow him to be killed.

But again what bothers me is that he was not judged for murder.....a life for a life.

Unless his judgement was not his life but his son's?

Moses committed Murder also and was not punished for it by God.  And God did take a life from David. His son's life. 

good point Kensington, so, Mystery man, does that mean that Moses isnt in heaven either, as well as David not being there (becuase he killed Uriah)? What about those who have killed others in war? Are they not going to heaven either? What about those who have had babies aborted? What about Nicky criz and others who murdered before they saved?
Of course they will all be there if they have accepted jesus as Lord becuaase he forgives ALL sins except the one mentioned in the Bible.

Moses is not a murderer either   <leaveing out punctuation mark becaue it looks too much like an upside down tie>

[Mystery Man]

Thou shalt not "kill" is the Hebrew word -"ratsach" , and this word means - "Murder" !

What was the cultural definition then of "murder" in those days? Did it have multiple meanings? Was it any death except in times of war?

The cultural definition was - "Thou shalt not kill" (murder) .  The "Law" was the Law of God, not the law of the land .

When God sent Nathan to King David, Nathan did not use the same Hebrew word for murder. 

[marc]

What in the world is this thread about???

[Mystery Man]

Does not anyone understand that killing one of the enemy of God is not murder ?  Moses killed an enemy of God.  

The Egytian smiting a Hebrew -- which means the Egytian killed a Hebrew. Exodus 2:11 - the word "smiting" is the Hebrew word - "nakah".  

Moses "slew" the Egytian.  The Hebrew word for "slew" is this same word - "nakah"

Notice that neither the Egytian nor Moses murdered anyone.  That is because the Hebrew word for murder , being - "ratsach" is not used in either statement.

[HeRestoresMyHeart]

 

[fanuvmxpx]

Does not anyone understand that killing one of the enemy of God is not murder ?  Moses killed an enemy of God.  

The Egytian smiting a Hebrew -- which means the Egytian killed a Hebrew. Exodus 2:11 - the word "smiting" is the Hebrew word - "nakah".  

Moses "slew" the Egytian.  The Hebrew word for "slew" is this same word - "nakah"

Notice that neither the Egytian nor Moses murdered anyone.  That is because the Hebrew word for murder , being - "ratsach" is not used in either statement.

So if a Muslim kills me, for no reason, its murder. But if I kill him, for no reason, its not? This is why holy wars still exist.

[Jimbob]

What in the world is this thread about???

Stubbornness?

[Nevertheless]

What in the world is this thread about???

Instead of "Plane Crash" perhaps it should have been named "Train Wreck".

[Mere Nick]

What in the world is this thread about???

The great enjoyment one receives from hot fried okra and ice cold beer on tap.

[Bonnie]

I can see that in David's heart he had a plan to get rid of him, allow him to be killed.

But again what bothers me is that he was not judged for murder.....a life for a life.

Unless his judgement was not his life but his son's?

Amen,  the baby's life was not spared. And David also had the son he loved most turn on him and attack him in war - Absalom. Absalom's long curly hair got twisted in the branches of a tree and he lost his life.  God refused to let David build the house of worship for him because he had shed innocent blood, which greatly distressed David. His son Solomon built it later.
David paid a dear price for his sins.  God was merciful in sparing his life.

[Mystery Man]

What in the world is this thread about???

Instead of "Plane Crash" perhaps it should have been named "Train Wreck".

Well, you women are to blame.  :)

[kensington]

What in the world is this thread about???

Instead of "Plane Crash" perhaps it should have been named "Train Wreck".

Now are you sure that is the right word for "Train Wreck" and you didn't use the term of the culture for "Train ride"?  Be sure.

[chosenone]

Does not anyone understand that killing one of the enemy of God is not murder ?  Moses killed an enemy of God.  

The Egytian smiting a Hebrew -- which means the Egytian killed a Hebrew. Exodus 2:11 - the word "smiting" is the Hebrew word - "nakah".  

Moses "slew" the Egytian.  The Hebrew word for "slew" is this same word - "nakah"

Notice that neither the Egytian nor Moses murdered anyone.  That is because the Hebrew word for murder , being - "ratsach" is not used in either statement.

uriah definately was not the enemy of God

[chosenone]

I can see that in David's heart he had a plan to get rid of him, allow him to be killed.

But again what bothers me is that he was not judged for murder.....a life for a life.

Unless his judgement was not his life but his son's?

Amen,  the baby's life was not spared. And David also had the son he loved most turn on him and attack him in war - Absalom. Absalom's long curly hair got twisted in the branches of a tree and he lost his life.  God refused to let David build the house of worship for him because he had shed innocent blood, which greatly distressed David. His son Solomon built it later.
David paid a dear price for his sins.  God was merciful in sparing his life.

Yes very true, he did pay for his terrible actions. Whenever we committ such awful sins there are always consequenses, whether they be on us or on our family.

[Mystery Man]

We are to forgive those who trespass against us, correct ?

How does one who is murdered , forgive that person who murdered them ?

Use scripture if you are going to reply to the question please.

[Mystery Man]

Does not anyone understand that killing one of the enemy of God is not murder ?  Moses killed an enemy of God.  

The Egytian smiting a Hebrew -- which means the Egytian killed a Hebrew. Exodus 2:11 - the word "smiting" is the Hebrew word - "nakah".  

Moses "slew" the Egytian.  The Hebrew word for "slew" is this same word - "nakah"

Notice that neither the Egytian nor Moses murdered anyone.  That is because the Hebrew word for murder , being - "ratsach" is not used in either statement.

uriah definately was not the enemy of God

True, but the enemy killed him correct ?  The children of Ammon.

[Bonnie]

We are to forgive those who trespass against us, correct ?

How does one who is murdered , forgive that person who murdered them ?

Use scripture if you are going to reply to the question please.

When you sin you do so against God.

[Mystery Man]

We are to forgive those who trespass against us, correct ?

How does one who is murdered , forgive that person who murdered them ?

Use scripture if you are going to reply to the question please.

When you sin you do so against God.

The question was about forgiveness and how one forgives.    Never put your right shoe on your left foot, and never put your left shoe on your right foot. 

I am beginning to understand how Jonah felt when he went unto the people of Nineveh

[HeRestoresMyHeart]

I am beginning to understand how Jonah felt when he went unto the people of Nineveh

Self righteous and condescending?

[Mystery Man]

I am beginning to understand how Jonah felt when he went unto the people of Nineveh

Self righteous and condescending?

I am waiting for God to give me a gourd.

[OneLung]

I am beginning to understand how Jonah felt when he went unto the people of Nineveh

Self righteous and condescending?

[Mystery Man]

 

[OneLung]

Come on MM, you got to admit, you set yourself up and she nailed you. haha!!

[Mystery Man]

Come on MM, you got to admit, you set yourself up and she nailed you. haha!!

would you like a gourd as well ?

[OneLung]

Come on MM, you got to admit, you set yourself up and she nailed you. haha!!

would you like a gourd as well ?

Is this "upside down" day?  HeRestoresMyHeart is being a smart a** and MM is being sensitive. 

[Mystery Man]

 

[HeRestoresMyHeart]

Is this "upside down" day?  HeRestoresMyHeart is being a smart a** and MM is being sensitive. 

hmmm, never occurred to me but maybe...

[Bonnie]

We are to forgive those who trespass against us, correct ?

How does one who is murdered , forgive that person who murdered them ?

Use scripture if you are going to reply to the question please.

When you sin you do so against God.

The question was about forgiveness and how one forgives.    Never put your right shoe on your left foot, and never put your left shoe on your right foot. 

I am beginning to understand how Jonah felt when he went unto the people of Nineveh

Well, you could let a giant fish swallow you.

[OneLung]

We are to forgive those who trespass against us, correct ?

How does one who is murdered , forgive that person who murdered them ?

Use scripture if you are going to reply to the question please.

When you sin you do so against God.

The question was about forgiveness and how one forgives.    Never put your right shoe on your left foot, and never put your left shoe on your right foot. 

I am beginning to understand how Jonah felt when he went unto the people of Nineveh

Well, you could let a giant fish swallow you.

That was Ahab.

[chosenone]

We are to forgive those who trespass against us, correct ?

How does one who is murdered , forgive that person who murdered them ?

Use scripture if you are going to reply to the question please.

their family can forgive him. Jesus forgives us even if the person that we sinned against doesnt or cant. For example if someone is unfaithful to their spouse, and if later they are truly repentant, they are forgiven,even if their spouse cannot. Our salvation doesnt depend on whether man forgives us but whether God does

[Mystery Man]

We are to forgive those who trespass against us, correct ?

How does one who is murdered , forgive that person who murdered them ?

Use scripture if you are going to reply to the question please.

their family can forgive him. Jesus forgives us even if the person that we sinned against doesnt or cant. For example if someone is unfaithful to their spouse, and if later they are truly repentant, they are forgiven,even if their spouse cannot. Our salvation doesnt depend on whether man forgives us but whether God does

Try and understand, that if you forgive someone it will be forgiven of you as well.  Our forgiveness of others is up to the individual who has had a trespass against us.   The one who trespassed against us, needs to ask for forgivenss as well, for their own lives.

So how does the one who was murdered forgive the one who murdered them ?

[chosenone]

We are to forgive those who trespass against us, correct ?

How does one who is murdered , forgive that person who murdered them ?

Use scripture if you are going to reply to the question please.

their family can forgive him. Jesus forgives us even if the person that we sinned against doesnt or cant. For example if someone is unfaithful to their spouse, and if later they are truly repentant, they are forgiven,even if their spouse cannot. Our salvation doesnt depend on whether man forgives us but whether God does

Try and understand, that if you forgive someone it will be forgiven of you as well.  Our forgiveness of others is up to the individual who has had a trespass against us.   The one who trespassed against us, needs to ask for forgivenss as well, for their own lives.

So how does the one who was murdered forgive the one who murdered them ?

It is Gods forgiveness that we need not mans forgiveness. If I sin against someone and they refuse to forgive me if I repent, that is their sin. We are told to forgive others, but we cannot make anyone forgive. If we come to Jesus truly repentant, is is HE who forgives. What if we sin against some one who dies. Are you saying that we cannot be forgiven becauase that person had since died?

[HeRestoresMyHeart]

We are to forgive those who trespass against us, correct ?

How does one who is murdered , forgive that person who murdered them ?

Use scripture if you are going to reply to the question please.

their family can forgive him. Jesus forgives us even if the person that we sinned against doesnt or cant. For example if someone is unfaithful to their spouse, and if later they are truly repentant, they are forgiven,even if their spouse cannot. Our salvation doesnt depend on whether man forgives us but whether God does

Try and understand, that if you forgive someone it will be forgiven of you as well.  Our forgiveness of others is up to the individual who has had a trespass against us.   The one who trespassed against us, needs to ask for forgivenss as well, for their own lives.

So how does the one who was murdered forgive the one who murdered them ?

Forgiveness by one who was trespassed against is not for the trespasser, it is for the one who was the victim so to speak-  unforgivness by humans does not hurt the sinner it hurts the one sinned against- therefore it is for the benefit/detriment of the one who is or is not doing the forgiving.

I am sure there are quite a few of us who have not been forgiven by others for various things and reasons yet we still have repented before God for our sins and received His forgiveness which is where our salvation lies-  yet many who have not forgiven a trespass against them are walking around in anger and/or bitterness, hence unforgivness hurting the one refusing to forgive as opposed to the one not forgiven by that person!  Human forgiveness does not provide salvation, nor does human unforgiveness prevent another from being saved- only God can do that!

Also if one was murdered without opportunity to forgive (obviously) then they also had no chance to hold any malice in their hearts toward the murderer, therefore if they died knowing God they have nothing to worry about!

[Mystery Man]

We are to forgive those who trespass against us, correct ?

How does one who is murdered , forgive that person who murdered them ?

Use scripture if you are going to reply to the question please.

their family can forgive him. Jesus forgives us even if the person that we sinned against doesnt or cant. For example if someone is unfaithful to their spouse, and if later they are truly repentant, they are forgiven,even if their spouse cannot. Our salvation doesnt depend on whether man forgives us but whether God does

Try and understand, that if you forgive someone it will be forgiven of you as well.  Our forgiveness of others is up to the individual who has had a trespass against us.   The one who trespassed against us, needs to ask for forgivenss as well, for their own lives.

So how does the one who was murdered forgive the one who murdered them ?

Forgiveness by one who was trespassed against is not for the trespasser, it is for the one who was the victim so to speak-  unforgivness by humans does not hurt the sinner it hurts the one sinned against- therefore it is for the benefit/detriment of the one who is or is not doing the forgiving.

I am sure there are quite a few of us who have not been forgiven by others for various things and reasons yet we still have repented before God for our sins and received His forgiveness which is where our salvation lies-  yet many who have not forgiven a trespass against them are walking around in anger and/or bitterness, hence unforgivness hurting the one refusing to forgive as opposed to the one not forgiven by that person!  Human forgiveness does not provide salvation, nor does human unforgiveness prevent another from being saved- only God can do that!

Also if one was murdered without opportunity to forgive (obviously) then they also had no chance to hold any malice in their hearts toward the murderer, therefore if they died knowing God they have nothing to worry about!

Yes, I would say that the murdered person is "obviously" not going to give out forgiveness.  LOL

But it is not about the one murdered.  It is about the murderer.

[Mystery Man]

We are to forgive those who trespass against us, correct ?

How does one who is murdered , forgive that person who murdered them ?

Use scripture if you are going to reply to the question please.

their family can forgive him. Jesus forgives us even if the person that we sinned against doesnt or cant. For example if someone is unfaithful to their spouse, and if later they are truly repentant, they are forgiven,even if their spouse cannot. Our salvation doesnt depend on whether man forgives us but whether God does

Try and understand, that if you forgive someone it will be forgiven of you as well.  Our forgiveness of others is up to the individual who has had a trespass against us.   The one who trespassed against us, needs to ask for forgivenss as well, for their own lives.

So how does the one who was murdered forgive the one who murdered them ?

It is Gods forgiveness that we need not mans forgiveness. If I sin against someone and they refuse to forgive me if I repent, that is their sin. We are told to forgive others, but we cannot make anyone forgive. If we come to Jesus truly repentant, is is HE who forgives. What if we sin against some one who dies. Are you saying that we cannot be forgiven becauase that person had since died?

Excuse me for saying this.  But you are not listening to what I have been asking.

How does the one who was murdered forgive the one who murdered them ?