follow-up to the unforgivable sin post I made Long but feedback is appreciated!

[volsfan1]

This is something that has been bothering me and I decided to look up more about it. I found this site which seems to have things with a common them among other sites. There are two points that I will make and I would like for you to say whether you agree with them and why or why not.

Here is the site in case you want to refer to it but I would like responses on the two main points I listed.

http://www.johnnyleeclary.com/unforgivable_sin.htm

The unforgivable sin (according to this site), was meant for the pharisees. When they saw Jesus perform these miracles in person, they knew that it had to be the work of the holy spirit. However. they attributed these miracles to be the work of the devil or because Jesus was demon possessed. This leads me to a couple of the main points that I want to see if you agree with.

1. This website claims that the unforgivable sin cannot be committed today. The reason is because Jesus is not alive for us to see these miracles performed today. Therefore, even if somebody thinks to himself or says to someone else that they think the miracles Jesus performed were the work of the devil or because he was demon possessed, that would not be an unforgivable sin because  you did not actually see these miracles performed by Jesus himself in person while he was alive on the earth.

2. It claims that if you are worried that you may have committed the unforgivable sin, you haven't. The reason being is because the worry that you may have committed it is the holy ghost/spirit working in you and you have conviction and your heart isn't completely hardened.

I am not extremely knowledgeable on the Bible and these are just two main points that I found from this site and others and wanted to get your feedback.

It makes sense because it seems like to me if there was an unforgivable sin, it would not be easy to commit. In fact, it seems like it would be near impossible to commit. Which would make sense if you can't commit the sin today and was just meant for the pharisees in particular.

Thank you for you responses.

[poptart]

Jessbuds gave the answer in your other thread, volsfan.

Not believing in Jesus Christ is the unforgivable sin.


If you look at Matthew 16:13-20, you see that Peter makes the confession that Jesus is the Christ.

In verse 17, Jesus tells him that he is blessed, and that flesh and blood has not revealed that fact to him, but the father has revealed it to him.

Now we know that the father did not speak directly to Peter.
It was the HOLY SPIRIT that "spoke" and revealed it to him.

And likewise, see 1Corinthians 12:3.

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Spirit draws people to the truth and the Holy Spirit reveals to them that Jesus is the Christ.

Now when the Holy Spirit reveals to a person (as with the Pharisees) that this Jesus IS the Christ, and that person DENIES it, is there any hope for that person?

The person who denies Jesus Christ,when the Holy Spirit has revealed the truth to them, is, as Jesus is recorded to have said in Mark 3:28, in danger of eternal damnation.

[volsfan1]

yeah I got a lot of responses from that other post. It still left me with some questions though as I was searching for more in depth info on it. But I'm glad so many people responded to it. This article I found just gives a lot more detail to the unforgivable sin that everyone is afraid of committing instead of just not being saved.

[HRoberson]

The unforgivable sin (according to this site), was meant for the pharisees. When they saw Jesus perform these miracles in person, they knew that it had to be the work of the holy spirit. However. they attributed these miracles to be the work of the devil or because Jesus was demon possessed.

The above is correct.

1. This website claims that the unforgivable sin cannot be committed today. The reason is because Jesus is not alive for us to see these miracles performed today. Therefore, even if somebody thinks to himself or says to someone else that they think the miracles Jesus performed were the work of the devil or because he was demon possessed, that would not be an unforgivable sin because  you did not actually see these miracles performed by Jesus himself in person while he was alive on the earth.

This I don't know about - but I doubt it's veracity.

2. It claims that if you are worried that you may have committed the unforgivable sin, you haven't. The reason being is because the worry that you may have committed it is the holy ghost/spirit working in you and you have conviction and your heart isn't completely hardened.

This is an interesting concept and I think it has merit.

[volsfan1]

yeah the thing about it not being able to be committed today is just  a lot of peoples stance that it had to be something you did after seeing visual proff in person of his miracles. I the idea of being worried about it is something I have read on many sites in addition to the other point.

The reason it's easy for me to believe these things that I found is because I just can't imagine there being a sin that somebody could commit today that would ban them from entering heaven if they truly changed their ways or were sorry for something. I guess there is no definite way of knowing either way.

They also said that since it says in the Bible what you need to be saved, it doesn't say except for those who have committed the unforgivable sin. Who knows, but I would like to think that there is nothing I could do in this world bad enough to prevent me from getting into heaven if I asked forgiveness.

[kensington]

Not believing in Jesus Christ is the unforgivable sin.


  NO IT IS NOT  ... this is a false teaching, or a misunderstanding of scripture.

The WORD says that you can Blaspheme or degrade and speak against Jesus and be forgiven...  so not believing in him keeps you from salvation, but it IS NOT the same thing as Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit.

The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are THREE separate yet joined REAL beings...  They speak separately, and as one.  They move as one yet do different things.  Jesus walked as a real flesh and blood man, and it was the spirit within Him that He sent back to us after He rose up and ascended to Heaven... Jesus HIMSELF is actually physically seated at the right hand of the Father speaking to Him each and every moment of time for us and about us... and the Separated part of Him that is the Holy Spiirit is HERE moving among us, dwelling in us, representing Jesus and the Father for us.

To blaspheme the Holy Spirit and to degrade who He is and what He doe, His purpose and His reality in your life is to commit the unforgiveable sin. 

I have also heard two other thoughts on this teaching in the OP...

If you can ask yourself if you have committed this sin, you probably have not. It's a conscience sin of rejecting the Holy Spirit out of your life AFTER salvation.

The second thing is that Nonbelievers cannot commit this sin, for you would have to have Received Jesus as LORD and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in order to reject Him from you.

But, not believing in Jesus yet.... is not the unforgivable sin.  That is simply rejecting salvation.  You must believe that Jesus is the Messiah to receive Him as Messiah, but that can all be washed clean by the blood of the Lamb, at the MOMENT of salvation when the Holy Spirit does draw someone who does not believe to a place and time where they will believe.  That is the purpose of the Holy Spirit... to draw nonbelievers to a state they will believe and to guide them to receive Jesus as LORD. 

You have to have KNOWLEDGE of the Holy Spirit to Blaspheme Him.  Once you have done that, you will know He left you, and that will be unforgivable on judgment day. 

[kensington]

"The Holy Spirit draws people to the truth and the Holy Spirit reveals to them that Jesus is the Christ."   This is truth.

"Now when the Holy Spirit reveals to a person (as with the Pharisees) that this Jesus IS the Christ, and that person DENIES it, is there any hope for that person?" YES.. EVERY MOMENT OF EVERY DAY until the day they die and pass into eternity the Holy Spirit will continue to try to draw them. It's not a one shot deal with the LORD OF LORDS..   That is NOT what He died beaten half to death on a cross for. 

[HRoberson]

Who knows, but I would like to think that there is nothing I could do in this world bad enough to prevent me from getting into heaven if I asked forgiveness.

This is correct, but it perpetuates a misconception.

Our job isn't to "get into Heaven."

Our job is to live the life we've been called to live.

"Heaven" is a result of having the focus of living God-lives on this planet.

[kensington]

Who knows, but I would like to think that there is nothing I could do in this world bad enough to prevent me from getting into heaven if I asked forgiveness.

This is correct, but it perpetuates a misconception.

Our job isn't to "get into Heaven."

Our job is to live the life we've been called to live.

"Heaven" is a result of having the focus of living God-lives on this planet.

I disagree... I think that our focus should be that when this "job" is done, we can and will spend eternity with the Savior, the Messiah, Jesus Christ... if that is in Heaven... so be it.  My focus is not on this job, it's on the eternity that awaits me when this is over.  Be it tomorrow or in 100 years.  Eternity with Jesus is the prize and that is what we are "running" for.

[volsfan1]

well aftert reading these other posts I have no idea what the unforgivable sin is. You claim it isn't unbelief until the day you die but a lot of people say it is.

Also, are you saying degrading the holy spirit is the unforgivable sin. I think that could be unforgivable. To me, an unforgivable sin would have to be something that is impossible to do unless you put so much effort into it that it consumes your life. I done' know what it could be. I've seen two different views now.

[volsfan1]

well I guess I just can't worry about it. If I commit it I commit it. All I can do is the best I can to improve myself and try to reach where I want to get.

[volsfan1]

It still makes the most sense to me that it would be rejecting Jesus Christ into your life until the day you die.

[volsfan1]

here is one more link I found that discusses it in detail. Whether it's right or not is anyones guess. It makes sense though.

http://net-burst.net/guilty/sin.htm

[kensington]

well aftert reading these other posts I have no idea what the unforgivable sin is. You claim it isn't unbelief until the day you die but a lot of people say it is.

Also, are you saying degrading the holy spirit is the unforgivable sin. I think that could be unforgivable. To me, an unforgivable sin would have to be something that is impossible to do unless you put so much effort into it that it consumes your life. I done' know what it could be. I've seen two different views now.

We become believers when we get saved. Before that, we did not believe or we would not have been walking in sin... any sin.  But, once we did believe, we received salvation. If not believing in Jesus for salvation or as your Savior was unforgivable... we would all go to hell. Because none of us were believers until we believed. But, when we believed and received Him, He gave us salvation and granted us forgiveness of sin... All sin.  And then imparted His Holy Spirit to us to dwell in us.  Before that, we had no knowledge of the workings of the Holy Spirit and didn't even know Him, or how He works or what He does in us.  Of course we rejected that, we did not believe we needed salvation.  That is what a nonbeliever is... we were all nonbelievers at one time... until we believed.

BUT...  The Holy Spirit, God Himself in Spirit came to live in us, His holiness dwells in us, and that is the only way to blaspheme.  For the Holy Spirit to be there when you do it, and then, He departs and is not there.  He was not there present in your life, dwelling in your heart before you believed, the BIBLE is clear that He comes in at Salvation, before that... He called you, beckoned to you. But, He was not in you.

[kensington]

It still makes the most sense to me that it would be rejecting Jesus Christ into your life until the day you die.

Except that Jesus made it clear that you could be forgiven of blasphemy towards God and even Him... Jesus, but not the Holy Spirit.  HE separated the three beings for this one point.

So.. If rejection of Jesus was the unforgivable sin...  He would not have needed to include or clarify that it was the sin of insulting the Holy Spirit.  Yes, rejecting Jesus will damn you, if you do it till eternity.  But, you can actually receive Jesus as LORD and still commit the unforgivable sin if you decide to sin that far.

[volsfan1]

Well it is kind of confusing. The theory that I agree with is that the unforgivable sin is not being saved when you die. That doesn't mean that if you do not believe or are not saved when you are alive that you can't be. It's just saying that if you die and aren't saved that is the unforgivable sin because of the finality of it.

[HRoberson]

Well it is kind of confusing. The theory that I agree with is that the unforgivable sin is not being saved when you die. That doesn't mean that if you do not believe or are not saved when you are alive that you can't be. It's just saying that if you die and aren't saved that is the unforgivable sin because of the finality of it.

In the context of the original passage, the above is incorrect.

[kensington]

here is one more link I found that discusses it in detail. Whether it's right or not is anyones guess. It makes sense though.

http://net-burst.net/guilty/sin.htm

Well this discourse on the sin, agrees with what I posted to you.  It is not the blasphemy of rejecting Jesus that is unforgivable, it is the blasphemy of insulting His Holy Spirit.  The are two different things. Two different sins, one can be forgiven, and one cannot.

[volsfan1]

but I think the thing that no one knows if what you really have to do. Saying it's blasphemy against the holy spirit still doesn't answer anything because that's not being specific. Like I said, it's something that most people can't do in their life or would be really hard to do.

Unless you also believe the theory that it could only be committed while Jesus was here on earth in physical form.

[volsfan1]

but what does insulting the holy spirit mean you have to do. It's actually something you can't be forgiven for. Is it meant in literal terms. Like I've already said, I don't understand what you could possibly say or do that could warrant unforgiveness whil you are alive. Unless you aren't willing to repent. I'm under the assumption that you are saying there is an unforgivable sin you can commit that would still be unforgivable no matter what you did to try and change that.

[HRoberson]

Saying it's blasphemy against the holy spirit still doesn't answer anything because that's not being specific.

Start with the original text, and argue from there.

[volsfan1]

it also says in that article that Paul said that they could be forgiven if they were willing to repent of their beliefs.

[HRoberson]

it also says in that article that Paul said that they could be forgiven if they were willing to repent of their beliefs.

Don't read the article.

Start with the original passage. The context is rather clear.

[kensington]

but I think the thing that no one knows if what you really have to do. Saying it's blasphemy against the holy spirit still doesn't answer anything because that's not being specific. Like I said, it's something that most people can't do in their life or would be really hard to do.

Unless you also believe the theory that it could only be committed while Jesus was here on earth in physical form.

That is not possible, because until Jesus died and rose again and ascended to the Father... the Holy Spirit was not separate, and we know that they are separate when Jesus says that they are three separate sins and only one is unforgivable.

While Jesus was here on earth, you could reject him and speak against him and still be forgiven... Paul would be a good example of that.   And actually you could do both while he lived and both after he ascended.

And if rejecting Jesus was the same as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which did not come to us until he ascended... tell my WHY Jesus spoke to them as separate actions clearly.

[volsfan1]

hroberson, sorry are you referring to my original post or something else?

[kensington]

Is it meant in literal terms.

BINGO.

[volsfan1]

well I guess it just comes down to the fact that I don't know what blasphemy against the  holy spirit means. It's very difficult to convey on a screen and understand it because it's such a confusing subject. I hope I have not committed this sin though and if I have I guess that's that huh?

[HRoberson]

hroberson, sorry are you referring to my original post or something else?

The original passage in Scripture from whence comes the term "unforgivable sin."

"All sin may be forgiven Man, except......"

[kensington]

but what does insulting the holy spirit mean you have to do. It's actually something you can't be forgiven for. Is it meant in literal terms. Like I've already said, I don't understand what you could possibly say or do that could warrant unforgiveness whil you are alive. Unless you aren't willing to repent. I'm under the assumption that you are saying there is an unforgivable sin you can commit that would still be unforgivable no matter what you did to try and change that.

I believe this is why some teach that if you ask if you have done it, you probably haven't.   I'm sure there will be those who will and won't care right to judgment.  

I personally rely on Hebrews 10:26...  we have to grow into reading deeper word.  

If someone receives salvation, and they do get mad enough to shake their fist in the face of God, and out right reject him, and insulting and berating the Holy Spirit, telling Him to leave and that they don't want him.  That is just what they will get. Who do  we think we are that we can take the precious salvation He died to provide for us and throw it back as it is a rag?  Step one step past that warning to insult His Spirit, is EXACTLY what blasphemy is.

He said plainly, you can reject and insult me, and my Father God, but you cannot do that to my Spirit.  It's so clear a 3rd grader can understand it.  For that is the reading level the Bible is written on.

[kensington]

hroberson, sorry are you referring to my original post or something else?

The original passage in Scripture from whence comes the term "unforgivable sin."

"All sin may be forgiven Man, except......"

I thought that was what you intended, but did not want to speak for you.

[volsfan1]

I understand that, I just don't know if I've ever done it. I don't even know for sure if I'm saved right now in my life.

[HRoberson]

I understand that, I just don't know if I've ever done it. I don't even know for sure if I'm saved right now in my life.

What do you understand?

What is "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" according to the original passage?

[volsfan1]

according to what you and the other poster said, it's rejecting the spirit of God after you have been saved.

[HRoberson]

according to what you and the other poster said, it's rejecting the spirit of God after you have been saved.

Not in the original passage it isn't.

[volsfan1]

I don't need to just give up trying if I'm worried about it but I don't know how much further I can go if I have committed something unforgivable.