What was abolished and nailed to the cross?

[Hobie]

What was abolished and nailed to the cross?

Many people conclude, that when the New Testament speaks about a law that has been abolished and nailed to the cross, it includes the 10 Commandments. Well you may have to go back and restudy the New Testament since there are instances in the New Testament where Paul or one of the other authors commands their readers to obey one or more of those commandments. For example, Paul says in the following passage:

Ephesians 6:1-3
(1) Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
(2) Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;)
(3) That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Yet we read Paul in another instance say that the commandments have been done away with:

Ephesians 2:15
(15) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace

Yet despite what some might want to say, there is a difference here. One of these is a commandment contained within the Decalogue, the 10 Commandments, of which Moses said that God "added no more

[OldDad]

What Is the Law of God for Christians Today?

[Hobie]

What Is the Law of God for Christians Today?

If the Lord of the Sabbath changes the Sabbath gift He gave at Creation and His Commandments, I am sure He would let us know....

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


So then it comes down to whether you choose to follow mans false doctrines and traditions or Gods commandments...?

There are many who try to nullify Gods Commandments and put in mans traditions or ideas but the law remains.

"Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Matthew 15:3,9.

"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Proverbs 14:12.

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." 2 Corinthians 4:4.

Many people follow the traditions that have been handed down to them by their family, friends, and church leaders. They are sincere in their beliefs, but quite often, they have grave misunderstandings or are unaware of the truth of the Sabbath day. Tradition seemingly is more important than God''s Word, the Holy Scriptures.

Pagan influence gave a opening that allowed the leaders centuries ago  to tamper with God''s law with the intent to deceive the whole world. This gross deception has led many to believe that the Lord''s Day is Sunday. Shall we follow tradition or the Word of God?

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the time and the law." Daniel 7:25, R.S.V.

So who or what religious system claims authority to have changed God''s eternal law?

"The pope is of so great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret even divine laws The pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth." Translated from Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca (Ready Library), "Papa," art.2.

So who do we follow, Christ who as Creator gave us the Sabbath or man who thinks they can change His gift to worship another..

[OldDad]

The role of the law in Christian life

[Amo]

OldDad, I havent had time to thoroughly examine all of the link you are supplying everyone with concerning SDA's, but want to share the results of what I have examined already. As usual, I have found your internet site to be filled with lies and twisted facts. The following posts address some of the same.

Seventh-day Adventists
Won't Tell You
Seventh-day Adventists won't tell you they are behind the "Revelation Seminars" they sponsor. They act all" interdenominational" if questioned. Watch out for these SDA outreaches as well: Voice of Prophecy, Faith for Today, It is Written, The Quiet Hour, Amazing Facts etc. They also hide behind Heath oriented shows on the networks, and sponsor stop-smoking clinics etc, all as introductions to Seventh-day Adventism.

There are some SDA's that try to hide their identity at first when holding meetings. This is because they fear losing attendees that have been prejudiced by people and materials such as this internet site before having a chance to hear both sides of the issue. There are of course two sides to every issue. It is only the ignorant, or those who have something to hide, that do not want to afford others the freedom of hearing and choosing for themselves what the truth is.

I do not agree with hiding ones identity as some SDA's do, I think it is wrong. However, since there is no SDA pope, and rightly so, then there is no one to dictate to all SDA's on the finer details of how and why they will do everything they do. It is not right for you to apply the above to all SDA's. I have been in the Church for 28 years and almost every REVELATION SEMINAR I know of has been held right in the local SDA church, or in a building right adjacent to it. Though some are guilty of trying to reach those who may have been previously prejudiced, the vast majority are not.

Thus the above statement is a half truth at best. It is a misrepresentation of the facts intended to produce a false perception in relation to all SDA's. Since there is really no such thing as a half truth, lets call it what it really is, a lie. As far as all trying to act interdenominational, baloney. Almost all churches of any significant size have independent ministries that do not include the name of their denomination in their titles. The same goes for the outreach programs. What church out their will not gladly use such programs and accept the interest of the attendees in further understanding the mission and truths of the church which sponsors the program?

This internet site that you promote is just more of the same mentality going on all over the world. It is an attempt to control and manipulate the minds of others through falsehood and misrepresentations. To prevent them form inquiry into teachings and ideas which contradict your own, and keep them from making their own decision regarding the truth. All lying is about manipulation. You may think what you want about SDA's but this one thing I know, I myself, and almost every SDA I have ever met will admonish all to examine the scriptures thoroughly for themselves to come to a knowledge of the truth. It is never the Spirit of God that deters one from thinking for themselves.


Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Even God says "come let us reason together

[Amo]

They revere their founding prophetess, Ellen G. White, and made this statement in their "Ministry" Magazine of Oct. 1981 and have never retracted it:
"We believe the revelation and inspiration of both the Bible and Ellen White's writings to be of equal quality. The superintendence of the Holy Spirit was just as careful and thorough in one case as in the other".

Lets take a little look at context here. The following is the opening paragraph of the above article.

"For Seventh-day Adventists the one standard, rule, and ultimate authority for doctrine is the Bible. All other doctrinal authorities are subordinate. "God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms," Ellen White wrote (The Great Controversy, p. 595). "The Bible, and the Bible alone, is to be our creed, the sole bond of union. . . . Let us lift up the banner on which is inscribed, The Bible our rule of faith and discipline."—Selected Messages, book 1, p. 416.

[davidandme]

What Is the Law of God for Christians Today?

The Law of God point out sins. 

[Hobie]

and is the basis of how the wicked will be judge at the end...

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

[Hobie]

What Is the Law of God for Christians Today?

Does God change His law

[4WD]

Does God change His law

Do you offer animal and/or other sacrifices?

[piecrust]

Hebrews 8:13

[4WD]

Hebrews 8:13

Heb 8:13  In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Not a thing there about changing laws.  You do not seem to understand the difference between law(s) and  covenant(s).

[beam]

What was abolished and nailed to the cross?

The Sinai covenant was nailed to the Cross Amo. If it wasn't there would be no reason or need for Jesus to have ratified a new covenant with His own blood.

Many people conclude, that when the New Testament speaks about a law that has been abolished and nailed to the cross, it includes the 10 Commandments.[/quote]
Read Paul's lips Amo.  2Cor3: 7 The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses' face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. 8 Shouldn't we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life? 9 If the old way, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God! 10 In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. 11 So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever!

What laws were etched in stone Amo.  Please tell us why we should not believe what is written so plain that a child can comprehend?

Well you may have to go back and restudy the New Testament since there are instances in the New Testament where Paul or one of the other authors commands their readers to obey one or more of those commandments. For example, Paul says in the following passage:

Ephesians 6:1-3
(1) Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
(2) Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;)
(3) That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Yet we read Paul in another instance say that the commandments have been done away with:

Ephesians 2:15
(15) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace

Yet despite what some might want to say, there is a difference here. One of these is a commandment contained within the Decalogue, the 10 Commandments, of which Moses said that God "added no more

Add no more???  So it is okay to blaspheme another?   It is okay not to love your fellow man even though it is the greatest command concerning our fellow man?  It is okay to gossip, be a slacker, be a bragger, it is okay to disobey civil law?  How about slander?   Read the following from Gal 5 Amo:  19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, 21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!

24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there. 25 Since we are living by the Spirit, let us follow the Spirit's leading in every part of our lives. 26 Let us not become conceited, or provoke one another, or be jealous of one another.

Yet you keep thumping the 10 commandments as the standard of right.  Pretty weak standard when it is written that the other sins listed in Gal 5 will keep one out of Heaven.

[4WD]

beam,

What is sin?

[Amo]

The Sinai covenant was nailed to the Cross Amo. If it wasn't there would be no reason or need for Jesus to have ratified a new covenant with His own blood.

Many people conclude, that when the New Testament speaks about a law that has been abolished and nailed to the cross, it includes the 10 Commandments.
Read Paul's lips Amo.  2Cor3: 7 The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses' face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. 8 Shouldn't we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life? 9 If the old way, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God! 10 In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. 11 So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever!

What laws were etched in stone Amo.  Please tell us why we should not believe what is written so plain that a child can comprehend?

Add no more???  So it is okay to blaspheme another?   It is okay not to love your fellow man even though it is the greatest command concerning our fellow man?  It is okay to gossip, be a slacker, be a bragger, it is okay to disobey civil law?  How about slander?   Read the following from Gal 5 Amo:  19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, 21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!

24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there. 25 Since we are living by the Spirit, let us follow the Spirit's leading in every part of our lives. 26 Let us not become conceited, or provoke one another, or be jealous of one another.

Yet you keep thumping the 10 commandments as the standard of right.  Pretty weak standard when it is written that the other sins listed in Gal 5 will keep one out of Heaven.

Hobie started this thread beam, and the posts you are quoting and replying to are his not mine. You've done this before. Seems like perhaps you have a little to much Amo on the brain.

[Amo]

The Sinai covenant was nailed to the Cross Amo. If it wasn't there would be no reason or need for Jesus to have ratified a new covenant with His own blood.

Many people conclude, that when the New Testament speaks about a law that has been abolished and nailed to the cross, it includes the 10 Commandments.
Read Paul's lips Amo.  2Cor3: 7 The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses' face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. 8 Shouldn't we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life? 9 If the old way, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God! 10 In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. 11 So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever!

What laws were etched in stone Amo.  Please tell us why we should not believe what is written so plain that a child can comprehend?

Add no more???  So it is okay to blaspheme another?   It is okay not to love your fellow man even though it is the greatest command concerning our fellow man?  It is okay to gossip, be a slacker, be a bragger, it is okay to disobey civil law?  How about slander?   Read the following from Gal 5 Amo:  19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, 21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!

24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there. 25 Since we are living by the Spirit, let us follow the Spirit's leading in every part of our lives. 26 Let us not become conceited, or provoke one another, or be jealous of one another.

Yet you keep thumping the 10 commandments as the standard of right.  Pretty weak standard when it is written that the other sins listed in Gal 5 will keep one out of Heaven.

Yes we know that you believe God established death during the old covenant, but then changed His mind and decided to establish life in the new covenant. We just don't worship the same god that you do.

[current occupant2]

Heb 8:13  In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Not a thing there about changing laws.  You do not seem to understand the difference between law(s) and  covenant(s).

The OLD covenant was the Ten Commandments  Ex. 34:28.

The NEW covenant is not the Ten Commandments.  Hebrews 8:6 and onward...

[4WD]

The OLD covenant was the Ten Commandments  Ex. 34:28.

NO !!  NO !!

A covenant is an agreement, a pledge, a compact.  What such agreement was established by God in the giving of those ten commandments?

Again, you do not understand the difference between a law and a covenant.

[beam]

Yes we know that you believe God established death during the old covenant, but then changed His mind and decided to establish life in the new covenant. We just don't worship the same god that you do.

I didn't write 2Cor3:7-11 Amo.  Paul did and I believe Paul over all that the Adventist church teaches that differs with him.   All of the scriptures reveal parts of God's plan of salvation.  Why He had to make a new covenant with Israel and why did Israel reject the Sinai covenant so that Jesus had to come and rescue them from that covenant and allow you and me to join in in the new covenant is not easy to see, but it is part of that plan laid out before the foundation of the Earth.   Why you can't accept the fact that we are under a totally new covenant with better promises is not easy for me to see either.  Are you so programmed that you cannot read 2Cor3:7-11 and see that the 10 commandments were the guide of the Israelites and all they could do if not heeded completely is to cause death?   Our new covenant of grace can cover the sins committed.   Our High Priest paid the price personally.  I cannot help it if the Sabbath command was one of the 10 commandments.  Paul did not separate the Sabbath command from the other 9.  They all were the ministry of death.  Do you believe you can keep Sabbath any better than the Israelites did?  If you do you are just fooling yourself, brother.  Yet your revered prophet tells you if you do not keep it you will loose your eternal inheritance.  Pretty strong words if you believe what she wrote.

[current occupant2]

NO !!  NO !!

A covenant is an agreement, a pledge, a compact.  What such agreement was established by God in the giving of those ten commandments?

Again, you do not understand the difference between a law and a covenant.

An agreement is nothing with out the stipulations and provisions of the agreement. 

The BIBLE SAYS that the words of the covenant are the words of the 10 commandments - Exodus 34:28 and Deut 4:13. 

And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Exodus 34:27-28 -

And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deuteronomy 4:13 -

[4WD]

current occupant2,

I asked

What such agreement was established by God in the giving of those ten commandments?

You didn't answer.  That is because you apparently have no idea what that covenant was.

[Amo]

I didn't write 2Cor3:7-11 Amo.  Paul did and I believe Paul over all that the Adventist church teaches that differs with him.   All of the scriptures reveal parts of God's plan of salvation.  Why He had to make a new covenant with Israel and why did Israel reject the Sinai covenant so that Jesus had to come and rescue them from that covenant and allow you and me to join in in the new covenant is not easy to see, but it is part of that plan laid out before the foundation of the Earth.   Why you can't accept the fact that we are under a totally new covenant with better promises is not easy for me to see either.  Are you so programmed that you cannot read 2Cor3:7-11 and see that the 10 commandments were the guide of the Israelites and all they could do if not heeded completely is to cause death?   Our new covenant of grace can cover the sins committed.   Our High Priest paid the price personally.  I cannot help it if the Sabbath command was one of the 10 commandments.  Paul did not separate the Sabbath command from the other 9.  They all were the ministry of death.  Do you believe you can keep Sabbath any better than the Israelites did?  If you do you are just fooling yourself, brother.  Yet your revered prophet tells you if you do not keep it you will loose your eternal inheritance.  Pretty strong words if you believe what she wrote.

Same old crap Beam. Twisting Paul's words, mine, and anyone else's who will disagree with you. SDA's and or EGW did not make up new covenant commandment keeping, or seventh day Sabbath observance. It was believed, practiced, and preached by many a Christian long before us. Even Paul preached and practiced it, you simply ignore those scriptures or twist them to your own ends. You deny and vehemently attack those who would keep the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ by faith in the same.

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You are just another drop of water in the flood the enemy has cast out of his mouth trying to swallow up the truth. You do always war against those who would keep the commandments of God and give the testimony of Jesus Christ. So be it.

[piecrust]

What is sin?

Anything not of faith.

[Amo]

Anything not of faith.

Correct of course.

Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Here is another correct statement.

1 Joh 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

[4WD]

Here is another correct statement.

1 Joh 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

How is it possible to transgress the law if the law has been abolished?

[Amo]

How is it possible to transgress the law if the law has been abolished?

Good question. Why would one of Christ's chosen Apostles say it was so for the new covenant era?

[current occupant2]

current occupant2,

I asked You didn't answer.  That is because you apparently have no idea what that covenant was.

And you ignore the words of scripture that the words of the covenant were the words of the Ten Commandments. 

The covenant is covered in exodus 24:1-8 where in the stipulations of the 10 commandments were written in a book, read to the people and the people said according to the record in those verses.  The covenant was then dedicated with blood.

Believe the words of the Bible, AM0

[piecrust]

Correct of course.

Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Here is another correct statement.

1 Joh 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Have a look at that verse in another translation.  English Standard Version
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

Doesn't mention the Law.

[4WD]

1 John 3:4 (ESV)  Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

[Amo]

Have a look at that verse in another translation.  English Standard Version
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

Doesn't mention the Law.

Seriously?

lawless[ law-lis ]

adjective
contrary to or without regard for the law:
lawless violence.

being without law; uncontrolled by a law; unbridled; unruly; unrestrained:
lawless passion.

illegal:
bootleggers' lawless activity.

1 Joh 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law.(KJ21)

4 Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.(ASV)

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness [ignoring God's law by action or neglect or by tolerating wrongdoing—being unrestrained by His commands and His will].(AMP)

4 Everyone who commits (practices) sin is guilty of lawlessness; for [that is what] sin is, lawlessness (the breaking, violating of God's law by transgression or neglect—being unrestrained and unregulated by His commands and His will).(AMPC)

[piecrust]

You've missed the whole point.  Would you like a link to the Greek?

[4WD]

And what was the whole point that was missed?

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Bean: #12
The Sinai covenant was nailed to the Cross

SDA? DUH!

Dispensationalists? GUGH!

Do you, see two stone-tables with Ten Commandments written on them nailed onto That Cross?

No? Well, I do!

Yes? Well, I see more!

I see The Two Great Laws, in fact, more, THE ONE GREATEST COMMANDMENT of all in the Body of flesh soul spirit mind and LIFE NAILED ONTO THAT CROSS, "AND THE WRITING WAS: THE KING OF THE JEWS, JESUS OF NAZARETH".

"THIS JESUS you crucified and with wicked hands have killed God raised Saviour Lord God and Christ."

Come you antinomians, come kick against the pricks - one, two, ten of them - may Christ be the Thorn in your side forever.

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

CO2: #19
An agreement is nothing with out the stipulations and provisions of the agreement. 
The BIBLE SAYS that the words of the covenant are the words of the 10 commandments - Exodus 34:28 and Deut 4:13.

So what's your point? To show the Sabbath was given to the Jews only? So the Sabbath is not for Christians? Yes?

Then fine! Just so then the LORD GOD gave Himself to the Jews only, and YOU ARE LEFT WITH NO LORD OR GOD. Yes?

Happy now?

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Blasphemy the vogue...

<God's old covenant> aka <The Sinai covenant was nailed to the Cross>