Would be nice to discuss divorce

[BAH-BLAH]

I see there are tons of old threads being renewed, and a poster that most must be famailiar with, mikesayen, who has strong beliefs as I do, i havent had the time to read those incredibly long posts, but i will, but i notice no one is responding, and since Im new, maybe I am curious what the old guard debates are here, and what the past threads hold and why?

[DCR]

Why do you say that most must be familiar with mikesayen?  He just signed up yesterday.

The only thing I can think of is that he did a forum search on the topics of marriage/divorce/remarriage, and he replied to nearly every thread he could get his hands on, which span across several years.

For a new poster to come on and reply to a whole bunch of threads on a subject, bumping them to the top to dominate all the new posts in the forum is in poor taste, IMO.

[BAH-BLAH]

Sorry, DUH I guess I could have looked at the date he started.
Color me absentminded.

Yes I agree, not only is that bad, but frankly I like posts that have scriptural frame up, but I simply cannot follow his and discern a concise point.

When i get going about divorce i get accused of being a bitter divorced man, Im not divorced, I wonder what drives a person to be that active as he is.

thats why I say, id like to DISCUSS, not just read his proofs

Thanks for the heads up.

[BAH-BLAH]

I was further motivated by the threads up top about sins, and how not only the main guy, corebly, but after several attempts I see pretty much everyone, cannot seem to slip stream divorce into a discussion on sin.

In fact Id say that the thread after 7 pages and 3 attempts to go there by me, and the fact it is ignored, says MUCH about the church and divorce, and we should not be shopcked at the rate in church

[Hot Ice]

One conclusion that I've come to about divorce is taht anyone  who has been approached several times by several Christians, including the pastors, and will not turn away from a dogged determination to divorce, and does so without a biblical reason, has placed themselves in the boat of being treated as an unbeliever (whether they truly are or not), according to scripture--and therefore has no right to expect their mate to remain available to them (though they may).

This has been one of the most painful parts of my situation, as I have to admit I still REALLY love my girl, and wish she had gone another way......

I've been dating some (nothing big;  just lunch "dates" I'm thinking of checking out a movie with someone this weekend, as well), but have dealt with a big squeeze of realization that I'm still "programmed" for her, and have no tools to "just get over it".  It's going to be a process, I can see.

ANYWAY, too many people avoid this subject out of an attempt to silence their own conscience, having divorced or planned near-future divorce for the wrong reasons--most of them emotionally-driven!

[larry2]

I'm not quite sure what most believe the rules on marriage are, but if we will adhere to those instructions given us, we will have a good marriage. To go another way brings consequence sometimes that endures a lifetime. Much like other things it is said all men cannot receive this saying. Can one be forgiven? Yes, but we may have left responsibility that is very hard to reconcile of conscience and financially.

The very biggest thing I see being a problem is the fact most are not equally yoked to start with. They may both be believers, but at greatly different stages of growth. One might still be enthused with the world, and the other pursuing a closer walk with Christ; there is sure to be dissention. Many Christians not finding a mate right off attempt to evangelize someone and believe they will continue in the faith; a very big mistake many times. Of all things you ever do, get this right to start with.

In Jesus' name - larry2

[BAH-BLAH]

I disagree that if we adhere to those things we will have a good marriage. This is the thing that gets a little confused about God and marriage. he did tell us how to do it, and in other areas of life he tells us how to go, and he will bless the right choices....but marriage see, it involves 2 people. its possible that one can do everything as near perfect as man can, and the other leave. So, thats why the efforts to strengthen marriage are great, but they aint gonna truly fix a problem.

the family that prays togethr stays together.....until they divorce

[larry2]

I disagree that if we adhere to those things we will have a good marriage. This is the thing that gets a little confused about God and marriage. he did tell us how to do it, and in other areas of life he tells us how to go, and he will bless the right choices....but marriage see, it involves 2 people. its possible that one can do everything as near perfect as man can, and the other leave. So, thats why the efforts to strengthen marriage are great, but they aint gonna truly fix a problem.

the family that prays togethr stays together.....until they divorce

Maybe that's your problem; you didn't notice the word "WE."  Amos 3:3  Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

In Jesus' name - larry2


 

[BAH-BLAH]

I disagree that if we adhere to those things we will have a good marriage. This is the thing that gets a little confused about God and marriage. he did tell us how to do it, and in other areas of life he tells us how to go, and he will bless the right choices....but marriage see, it involves 2 people. its possible that one can do everything as near perfect as man can, and the other leave. So, thats why the efforts to strengthen marriage are great, but they aint gonna truly fix a problem.

the family that prays togethr stays together.....until they divorce

Maybe that's your problem; you didn't notice the word "WE."  Amos 3:3  Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

In Jesus' name - larry2


 

I saw "we". I took that to mean US here at the forum, the folks to whom you speak when you type, which would mean, in speaking to us collectively, you are speaking to a whole bunch of folks who individuallt represent ONE side of each marriage.

[chaz345]

One reason that the church is so ineffective at dealing with divorce is that unlike any other sin(yes I know that not all divorce is sin, but the huge majority, lacking the one Biblical exception are) people are very quick to taken the "it's OK God forgives" line of thinking, even BEFORE the deed has been done.  Can you imagine any Christian saying that to another who said they were considering having an affair, or looking at porn or stealing something?  What's the difference? Why is divorce treated so differently? Almost like it's OK even if there no Biblical cause.

[phoebe]

Sorry, DUH...
Color me absentminded.

...

Can do.   

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I didn't really see a question in the OP.

You want to discuss whether divorce is a sin?  always/sometimes/never?

[chosenone]

Mike is on another forum that I go on and he is the same there. only ever posts on this one subject of divorce and reamrriage,and I don't agree with him anyway he says that women whose husbands are unfaithful or sexually sin cant divorce them.Anyone who is obsessed by ONE subject and ONE subject alone is totally out of balance and there is a hidden reason for it.

All I know is that both myself and my husband are divorced, We both had spouses who committed sexual sin. my husband was divorced by his wife and I divorced my husband after God clearly led me to do so.(Three years after I found out the very serious nature of what he had been doing and had had to separate). .

Another thing I know is that neither of us sinned by being divorced.The sin was the sexual sin by our spouses. I have no shame because I did nothing wrong.My husband was divorced by his wife who wanted this other man. he did nothing wrong. He acted with decency,integrity, fairness and kindness throughout.
Also I have the BEST and most wonderful and godly husband ever, he is an amazing dad to my kids who never see their own dad. God has truly restored to us all that the locusts have eaten. I give Hm ALL the Glory.
No one likes divorce, it is horrible and painful but what Satan meant for evil, God  uses for good.

[chosenone]

I see there are tons of old threads being renewed, and a poster that most must be famailiar with, mikesayen, who has strong beliefs as I do, i havent had the time to read those incredibly long posts, but i will, but i notice no one is responding, and since Im new, maybe I am curious what the old guard debates are here, and what the past threads hold and why?

No point in responding to a man who is obsessed on this one subject and this one subject alone.(as he is on another forums also)

[BAH-BLAH]

Well i wasnt suggesting responding to him. I cant wade through all that anyway.
I do see divorce generally as a root cause tragedy in the church, and frankly its taboo to discuss as it leads to gender wars for some reason i never will understand.

I think we all know when it is and isnt sin and we all know where God stands on it....thats not a fruitful topic anyway amongst those who generally agree.

The topic is.....whats to be done? Why do we as a church flat ignore it? Why can we be so bent out of shape about gay marriage, which maybe impacts 3% of the population, even less inside the church, while we are divorcing 1 out of 2?

[BAH-BLAH]

This was on Fox News site today:


"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." (Genesis 2:24) These words predate all governments reminding us that the institution of marriage is God ordained and defined.

Amidst high divorce rates and an unprecedented effort to redefine marriage, I propose 10 truths about marriage:

1.Marriage is a covenant not simply a contract.
2.One must not redefine original intent without the permission of the author.
3.All indicators point toward the emotional, social and economic benefits of marriage.
4.The virtues of commitment and faithfulness must be reclaimed in America.
5.The state of the union is no stronger than the union of our marriages.
6.The marriage penalty tax is contrary to the values we claim to embrace.
7.There is no greater weapon against child poverty and crime than healthy marriages.
8.Strengthen marriage and you strengthen the family.
9.Strengthen families and you strengthen a nation.
10.The definition of marriage was not originally based in social opinion or manmade laws and should not now be reduced to either.

Dr. Francis Schaeffer once said, "If there is no absolute beyond man's ideas, then there is no final appeal to judge between individuals and groups whose moral judgments conflict. We are merely left with conflicting opinions." The definition of marriage was established by an authority higher than that of any government and more sacred than that of any opinion poll. America loses her moorings when we lose our absolutes.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I think that...

The problem most people have with a discussion on divorce vis a vis sin is that, by its nature, divorce leads to a permanent, perpetual, ongoing state.

If that state (divorced) is a state of sin, all hope is lost.  A state of perpetual, unrepentant, ongoing sin going onwards til death can only bring damnation. This is axiomatic in every brand, flavor, and concocted version of Christianity I've ever seen.

I am not going to be the one to say that divorce is such a state, either.  Particularly since I am divorced.

Jarrod

[farouk]

One can repent, by God's grace.

The effects of divorce are permanent, particularly if there is remarriage.

But the whitewash approach is not the Biblical answer.

[BAH-BLAH]

I think that...

The problem most people have with a discussion on divorce vis a vis sin is that, by its nature, divorce leads to a permanent, perpetual, ongoing state.

If that state (divorced) is a state of sin, all hope is lost.  A state of perpetual, unrepentant, ongoing sin going onwards til death can only bring damnation. This is axiomatic in every brand, flavor, and concocted version of Christianity I've ever seen.

I am not going to be the one to say that divorce is such a state, either.  Particularly since I am divorced.

Jarrod

If folks are hearing forever condemnation, they are hearing things and should look to the spirit to see exactly what is He trying to say with that feeling.

To be divorcED is no more a sin than to HAVE murderED. The action is seperate and unique from the state of having done it.
It can lead to a damnable state one can be in...but not that they are damned

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

You can say that, but I think a lot of people see it as an ongoing sin - that is, by remaining apart from the obligation you once pledged, you are continuing to sin.

And in some cases, that is probably a true statement.  I'm sure there are circumstances for which that isn't true as well.

How do we differentiate?