Bablylon

[mclees8]

That is funny, you said this in an earlier post desertknight -

The Spanish Inquisition did not in fact involve any Protestants. It involved Muslims and Jews mostly. The Spanish had just completed an 800 year war to retake their country back for Christendom. It had been under Islam that whole time.

After 800 years of bloody fighting, the Christian Spanish wanted to ensure their counrty remained Christian. And so it sought to seek out any non-christians or those pretending to be. It wasn't actually started by the Catholic Church, but by the Christian King and Queen of Spain.

You seem to want to side step the issue. You say, no it wasn't the Mother church that did evil it was that Evil king and queen of Spain. The question here is the inquisitions being a just biblical thing. did the popes ever have heretics burned at the stake. Did the early church ever have such tribunals. Paul taught about church order and conduct. he said do not allow someone who is practicing amoral things to be put out of the church but not for ever if he repents. This is the extent of church authority. This was in autonmous settings. They were not a religious political power that delt death to anyone. Nothing biblical about the inquisitions. The fact that the church of Rome no longer does these thing is proof that they were unbiblical and evil.   They did these thing as A religious political power which in it self was unbiblical to anything the Christ founded.

God bless

God bless 

I didn't know Muslims and Jews were baptized members of the Catholic Church.

Nope, not me.  You must have me confused with another poster.  I never said that.

The king and queen of Spain were Roman Catholic.  The inquisition was invented by the Church of Rome, not the king and queen of Spain.

The Inquisition was, the Spanish Inquisition was not.  It's like saying that when Muslims argue that our invasion of Iraq was a "crusade".  Just because someone uses the same terminology does not make it the same thing, if it did, then we can assume they are right and George Bush, being a member, launched the Methodist Crusade into Muslim lands.   I don't think so.  That it was an inquisition carried out by a Catholic monarch and civil government with the Church's acquiescence is true, that it was the Church's, has clearly been proven not to be the case.  In any case it does not negate the collapsing of all the balderdash about "millions killed by the Catholic Church" nonsense.

[Amo]

Nope, not me.  You must have me confused with another poster.  I never said that.

My bad. 

The Inquisition was, the Spanish Inquisition was not.  It's like saying that when Muslims argue that our invasion of Iraq was a "crusade".  Just because someone uses the same terminology does not make it the same thing, if it did, then we can assume they are right and George Bush, being a member, launched the Methodist Crusade into Muslim lands.   I don't think so.  That it was an inquisition carried out by a Catholic monarch and civil government with the Church's acquiescence is true, that it was the Church's, has clearly been proven not to be the case.  In any case it does not negate the collapsing of all the balderdash about "millions killed by the Catholic Church" nonsense.

The millions dying, may be close to true through the history of the crusades alone, considering all who died on both sides. 

[desertknight]

Nope, not me.  You must have me confused with another poster.  I never said that.

My bad.  

The Inquisition was, the Spanish Inquisition was not.  It's like saying that when Muslims argue that our invasion of Iraq was a "crusade".  Just because someone uses the same terminology does not make it the same thing, if it did, then we can assume they are right and George Bush, being a member, launched the Methodist Crusade into Muslim lands.   I don't think so.  That it was an inquisition carried out by a Catholic monarch and civil government with the Church's acquiescence is true, that it was the Church's, has clearly been proven not to be the case.  In any case it does not negate the collapsing of all the balderdash about "millions killed by the Catholic Church" nonsense.

The millions dying, may be close to true through the history of the crusades alone, considering all who died on both sides.  

1.  No problem.

2.  While I certainly would not defend every action in the Crusades, I will most certainly defend their justification and their purpose.  It's a bit hard for Muslims to criticise our invasion of Palestine and our re-taking the Holy Lands during the Crusades whilst they were busy occupying Christian lands for over 500 years and making chattel slaves of the Christian faithful.  The last Muslim siege of Europe ended at the gates of Vienna Austria in AD 1683, just twenty years before the birth of Benjamin Franklin.  Thank God for our Catholic Knights in their duty and for today-we fight the Saracens still.



HM John III and the Polish Knights breaking the siege of Vienna AD1683.

[mclees8]

Nope, not me.  You must have me confused with another poster.  I never said that.

My bad.  

The Inquisition was, the Spanish Inquisition was not.  It's like saying that when Muslims argue that our invasion of Iraq was a "crusade".  Just because someone uses the same terminology does not make it the same thing, if it did, then we can assume they are right and George Bush, being a member, launched the Methodist Crusade into Muslim lands.   I don't think so.  That it was an inquisition carried out by a Catholic monarch and civil government with the Church's acquiescence is true, that it was the Church's, has clearly been proven not to be the case.  In any case it does not negate the collapsing of all the balderdash about "millions killed by the Catholic Church" nonsense.

The millions dying, may be close to true through the history of the crusades alone, considering all who died on both sides.  

1.  No problem.

2.  While I certainly would not defend every action in the Crusades, I will most certainly defend their justification and their purpose.  It's a bit hard for Muslims to criticise our invasion of Palestine and our re-taking the Holy Lands during the Crusades whilst they were busy occupying Christian lands for over 500 years and making chattel slaves of the Christian faithful.  The last Muslim siege of Europe ended at the gates of Vienna Austria in AD 1683, just twenty years before the birth of Benjamin Franklin.  Thank God for our Catholic Knights in their duty and for today-we fight the Saracens still.



HM John III and the Polish Knights breaking the siege of Vienna AD1683.

There is no justification. For the crusades or the inquisitions period. These things were about law and control. which it was by reason of their political power  but this was not anything of Jesus church. The Lord is about salvation not domination. Domination is still there goal but it will be disguised. They will be  of the UN. They send their deligates their and the pope schools on Moral responsibility  to them.  Our hope is not of this world or its present moral and political fabric, but the one Christ will bring when he comes again.  The pope will follow after antichrist.

God bless

God bless

[desertknight]

There is no justification. For the crusades or the inquisitions period. These things were about law and control. which it was by reason of their political power  but this was not anything of Jesus church. The Lord is about salvation not domination. Domination is still there goal but it will be disguised. They will be  of the UN. They send their deligates their and the pope schools on Moral responsibility  to them.  Our hope is not of this world or its present moral and political fabric, but the one Christ will bring when he comes again.  The pope will follow after antichrist.

God bless

1.  We not only have the right, the justification, we have the obligation to defend the faith, the faithful, and the innocent.

2.  When you talk about the Catholic Church or Pope "dominating" the world "government" of the UN....well, you just loose me.  I can't believe that a rational person believes such nonsense.  The Pope may have spoken to the General Assembly and may have an ambassador there, so do we Americans and every other country, but the Pope "dominates" it?  LoL.  The Pope has about as much power in the UN as they guy that makes the coffee there.  The only power that the Vatican wields is that of moral persuasion in areas of human rights and the protection of life.  You are against this?  When the Vatican tries to stop a war or genocide, tries to keep children from being killed in the womb, we should all applaud it, not condemn it.

I am really, totally dumbfounded by any idea that you may have of this vast power of the Vatican.  It just seems nutty and I am not saying that as a Catholic, I think most people would think it is a bit nutty.  Nothing personal, I've read some views on this board that are definitely different than what I hear people around the water cooler talking about and the Vatican being in control of world events is certainly one of them.   

[walker starr]

   The true reasons for the inquisition and the crusades were Greed and hatred.

[winsome]

   The true reasons for the inquisition and the crusades were Greed and hatred.

No they weren't

[mclees8]

There is no justification. For the crusades or the inquisitions period. These things were about law and control. which it was by reason of their political power  but this was not anything of Jesus church. The Lord is about salvation not domination. Domination is still there goal but it will be disguised. They will be  of the UN. They send their deligates their and the pope schools on Moral responsibility  to them.  Our hope is not of this world or its present moral and political fabric, but the one Christ will bring when he comes again.  The pope will follow after antichrist.

God bless

1.  We not only have the right, the justification, we have the obligation to defend the faith, the faithful, and the innocent.

2.  When you talk about the Catholic Church or Pope "dominating" the world "government" of the UN....well, you just loose me.  I can't believe that a rational person believes such nonsense.  The Pope may have spoken to the General Assembly and may have an ambassador there, so do we Americans and every other country, but the Pope "dominates" it?  LoL.  The Pope has about as much power in the UN as they guy that makes the coffee there.  The only power that the Vatican wields is that of moral persuasion in areas of human rights and the protection of life.  You are against this?  When the Vatican tries to stop a war or genocide, tries to keep children from being killed in the womb, we should all applaud it, not condemn it.

I am really, totally dumbfounded by any idea that you may have of this vast power of the Vatican.  It just seems nutty and I am not saying that as a Catholic, I think most people would think it is a bit nutty.  Nothing personal, I've read some views on this board that are definitely different than what I hear people around the water cooler talking about and the Vatican being in control of world events is certainly one of them.   

Please let me make a correction here. I never meant he dominated the UN. it is being there in the first place and why. Do you  think the church will make the world a better place  by counseling the leaders of the world. They want world peace and to be the center of world religion, they want the UN to be governing power of the world. This will ultimately result in one world government and religious order. no evidence of this Just something I know.

God bless

[Amo]

2.  While I certainly would not defend every action in the Crusades, I will most certainly defend their justification and their purpose.  It's a bit hard for Muslims to criticise our invasion of Palestine and our re-taking the Holy Lands during the Crusades whilst they were busy occupying Christian lands for over 500 years and making chattel slaves of the Christian faithful.  The last Muslim siege of Europe ended at the gates of Vienna Austria in AD 1683, just twenty years before the birth of Benjamin Franklin.  Thank God for our Catholic Knights in their duty and for today-we fight the Saracens still.

Yes Catholics and Muslims have this much in common.  They both believe God is on their side, and that He has called His Church to raise literal armies to destroy heretics.  If this were God's plan, then Jesus Christ would have handed over the literal sword to His Church to continue the literal war that He would have started when here.  Show us where the new covenant, or testament in Christ's blood, ever admonished such actions.  You cannot.

You talk about the crusades against the Muslims, what about the crusades against, and the genocide of the Cathars?  They were not military threats, yet your Church exterminated them for their beliefs.  How about the Albigensian Crusade, and the Waldenses, and countless others whose lives were snuffed out because they would not bow the knee to Rome?  Christ's Church absolutely is not involved in the same.

John 18:35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Self defense is one thing, active aggression, persecution, torture, murder, and compulsion are another all together.  These are the traits of the children of the prince of this world, not the prince of heaven. 

[Amo]

Babble on, Babble on, and on the day of the destruction, you are in for a big surprize.

Of course I do not agree, and I will leave your fate in his hands, they are much more capable than mine.  On the other hand, even if I was wrong, and the Catholic Church was God's true Church on earth, I would gladly burn in hell forever, rather than worship a God that would even do such a thing.  Not an issue with me really though, my Christian faith has never been about self preservation.  It is about finding the truth, and falling in love with it, and His name is Jesus Christ.

[desertknight]

Yes Catholics and Muslims have this much in common.  They both believe God is on their side, and that He has called His Church to raise literal armies to destroy heretics.  If this were God's plan, then Jesus Christ would have handed over the literal sword to His Church to continue the literal war that He would have started when here.  Show us where the new covenant, or testament in Christ's blood, ever admonished such actions.  You cannot.

The difference is that God is on the side of "Israel", His Church, and not the false prophet and satanic evil of Islam.  Did God endorse raising literal armies to destroy the enemies of Israel?

Deut. 7:1-2, "When the LORD, your God, brings you into the land which you are to enter and occupy, and dislodges great nations before you--the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites: seven nations more numerous and powerful than you-and when the LORD, your God, delivers them up to you and you defeat them, you shall doom them. Make no covenant with them and show them no mercy."

Deut.  20:2-4  "When you are about to go into battle, the priest shall come forward and say to the soldiers:  Hear, O Israel! Today you are going into battle against your enemies. Be not weakhearted or afraid; be neither alarmed nor frightened by them.  For it is the LORD, your God, who goes with you to fight for you against your enemies and give you victory."

I could go on, but that would mean cutting and pasting a fair amount of the OT.  Why do you think God has changed His mind?  Why do you think He is less protective of the Israel of the New Covenant, His Church?

You talk about the crusades against the Muslims, what about the crusades against, and the genocide of the Cathars?  They were not military threats, yet your Church exterminated them for their beliefs.  How about the Albigensian Crusade, and the Waldenses, and countless others whose lives were snuffed out because they would not bow the knee to Rome?  Christ's Church absolutely is not involved in the same.

Though the Church may have erred in it's harshness toward these heretics, it is about the most sinful thing you can do in the world to not just work to loose your own salvation, but to start heresies that condemn others to eternal hell.  The Church has always taken that seriously. More souls were saved than lives lost in suppressing these heretics.

Gal. 1:9  "As we said before, so say I now again: If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that which ye have received, let him be accursed!"

John 18:35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

That has nothing to do with any prohibition of Christ's Church not being involved with affairs of the world.  Nothing.  You really do not get that Christ is telling them He is the Son of God here?  You have totally missed the very obvious meaning of this passage.  Christ is conveying here, that He is the Son of God, and not the simple political insurgent, a usurper of the crown, that they believe Him to be.  Christ is being asked if He is the Jewish revolutionary who He was accused of being by being lauded as "King", He is telling Pilate the truth they do not understand, that they are about to crucify God incarnate and that He willingly goes to His death.  Christ is making the point to them that they do not understand who they are about to crucify.

Self defense is one thing, active aggression, persecution, torture, murder, and compulsion are another all together.  These are the traits of the children of the prince of this world, not the prince of heaven.

We are not the Amish, we have read the OT.  Our eventual kingdom may not be of this world, but while we are here on earth, we must live in it.  Sometimes the best defence is an offence.  I think after these Saracens murdered over 3,000 of my countrymen in front of my eyes, all of my good will and "understanding" with them ran out.  I hope they convert and I pray for them, but we are fools if we do not see that there are wolves at our door.  We are not fit to be called "men" if we do not protect our families, our countries and our Holy Faith.  

[Amo]

The difference is that God is on the side of "Israel", His Church, and not the false prophet and satanic evil of Islam.  Did God endorse raising literal armies to destroy the enemies of Israel?

Deut. 7:1-2, "When the LORD, your God, brings you into the land which you are to enter and occupy, and dislodges great nations before you--the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites: seven nations more numerous and powerful than you-and when the LORD, your God, delivers them up to you and you defeat them, you shall doom them. Make no covenant with them and show them no mercy."

Deut.  20:2-4  "When you are about to go into battle, the priest shall come forward and say to the soldiers:  Hear, O Israel! Today you are going into battle against your enemies. Be not weakhearted or afraid; be neither alarmed nor frightened by them.  For it is the LORD, your God, who goes with you to fight for you against your enemies and give you victory."

I could go on, but that would mean cutting and pasting a fair amount of the OT.  Why do you think God has changed His mind?  Why do you think He is less protective of the Israel of the New Covenant, His Church?

Why is your Church so determined to reestablish the old covenant?  Of course the only scriptures you can find to support Christ's Church raising literal armies, come from the OT, for there is nothing in the NT to support such.  I guess you might as well though, since you have also resurrected a literal priesthood from the old covenant.  You are once again placing mere men between humanity and their God, something Christ specifically came to do away with.  By your confession to the priests, and homage to the Pope even above God's word, you have replaced the new covenant in Christ, with an old covenant type, which was meant to be abolished.  This is not to mention your transubstantiation, which also makes your adherents dependent upon the priesthood, once again placing mere men between humanity and Christ, their only hope and Savior.

Though the Church may have erred in it's harshness toward these heretics, it is about the most sinful thing you can do in the world to not just work to loose your own salvation, but to start heresies that condemn others to eternal hell.  The Church has always taken that seriously. More souls were saved than lives lost in suppressing these heretics.

Gal. 1:9  "As we said before, so say I now again: If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that which ye have received, let him be accursed!"

Yes, let him be accursed, and God will take care of that.  All the Popes and Catholics who participated in the extermination of those who simply chose to believe differently than them, will themselves burn in the lake of fire, unless they later repented and confessed their sin.  Just as all will also, who have done the same for any institution.  Do you really think that anyone who accepted the Catholic faith simply because they thought they would be killed if they didn't, will be saved?  If you do, you truly do not understand the gospel at all.  This is not even to mention the fact that no one will ever be saved because they are a Roman Catholic, or member of any other denomination either, but only in Christ alone. 

Sir, I believe the false teachings and doctrines of the Church of Rome, can lead one straight to the lake of fire.  Should I therefore start killing all Roman Catholics?  What could be more blasphemous than assuming that prerogative which belongs only to God Himself, which even He does not exercise, and will not, until the day which He has appointed for the same.  By doing so in her history, the church of Rome has revealed herself for that which she really is, one who wishes to supplant God Himself.  This is the mindset of Satan himself.

That has nothing to do with any prohibition of Christ's Church not being involved with affairs of the world.  Nothing.  You really do not get that Christ is telling them He is the Son of God here?  You have totally missed the very obvious meaning of this passage.  Christ is conveying here, that He is the Son of God, and not the simple political insurgent, a usurper of the crown, that they believe Him to be.  Christ is being asked if He is the Jewish revolutionary who He was accused of being by being lauded as "King", He is telling Pilate the truth they do not understand, that they are about to crucify God incarnate and that He willingly goes to His death.  Christ is making the point to them that they do not understand who they are about to crucify.

Baloney! Observe the following.

John 7:6 Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.
7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

The deeds of the Church of Rome, in slaughtering countless people who would not agree with her, were evil, and of this world, not of God.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

There is a separation between Christ's true Church and this world.  One's actions and teachings prove which we are from.  The history of the Church of Rome proves they are from the latter.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The world cannot receive the Spirit of truth, sent to Christ's here on earth, who keep the commandments of God.  Nor can the Church of  Rome receive the Spirit of truth sent by Christ to His Church, for she has sought to change God's commandments, and teach men also to disregard some of them.  Thus proving once again, that she is not Christ's church, but the church of this world, usurping the name and authority of Christ.  Thus she teaches humanity to ignore certain of the commandments of God, which Christ Himself admonished all humanity to keep. 

John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Christ is not manifested to the world, but only those who love Him and are in this world.  Forced or coerced submission is from beneath, not above.  It cannot produce true conversion, and is not acceptable to God.  If it was, there would be no sin, or sinners.  If God believed in force, He would certainly not need your Church, or any other to carry out forced submission to Himself.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you:not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

It is the world that persecutes sir, not the Church of Christ.  If your Church has been involved in massive persecution, which it has, then it is not the Church of Christ.  Christ ever and only used the power of persuasion by way of the conviction of the Holy Spirit of God upon the human heart.  His true Church will only do likewise.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.


Christ's Church is not of this world, even as He Himself was, and is not of this world.  He has sent His Church into the world, even as His Father sent Him into the world.  This of course did not include armies of heaven forcing the worlds submission to His authority.  If it did, it would have been the end of this world, and the beginning of the new heaven and earth which are yet future.  Nor has Christ commissioned His Church to do that which He did not do, but to the contrary, to follow His example.  To do otherwise in God's name, is blasphemous. 

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

We have already discussed the above.  It means just what it says.  Just as Christ did not come to fight a literal war, but a spiritual one, so will His Church do the same.  Any Church claiming to be Christ's, which changes the gospel from a spiritual war, to a literal one, is a false Church.

Gal 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Persecuting, imprisoning, torturing, and killing those who disagree with you, is participating in the evils of this world, not spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

The methodology and practices of those of this world, are not to be used by Christ's Church for the spreading of the gospel.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

If a Church is going to practice the philosophy, vain deceit, traditions of men, after the rudiments of this world, it is not of Christ.  The history of the Church of Rome is filled with the same.

Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthyJ they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

If the persecutions of the above scriptures upon God's people sound familiar, it is because the Church of Rome inflicted the same upon countless people throughout it's history. 

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

One cannot be any friendlier with the world, than to be the one in control of the same.  Thus Rome has been friendlier with this world than any other supposed Christian entity that has ever existed.  She is also continuously seeking and maintaining intimate and illicit relationships with the kings and rulers of this world proving her love for the same, above Christ and His Church.  The Church never spread the gospel so fast as when she was persecuted by the kings of this earth, but empowered by the Holy Spirit of God.  Nor so slowly as when she had the favor of the same, but lacked the latter.  The latter encumbers the Church with the cares, politics, wars, and all rudiments of this world.

I Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

The above needs no comment.

I Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

How is it that the world both knoweth, and is intimately involved with the Church of Rome?

I Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.


Rome speaketh to the world, and the world heareth them, because they are of the world, and not of Christ.  Thus through the false doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, Rome denies that Christ came in the flesh through the teaching of His mother being separated from the rest of humanity at birth, and the fact that His Father was God.  Thus separating Christ from the rest of humanity which He came to save, by way of denying that He came in the same sinful fallen nature and flesh which we all posses.

I Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

It is our faith that overcomes the world, not literal armies that kill the same.

II Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Rome does not keep the commandments of God, or the doctrine of Christ regarding the same and many other things, and as already stated, denies that Christ came in our human flesh through the false doctrine of the immaculate conception. 

We are not the Amish, we have read the OT.  Our eventual kingdom may not be of this world, but while we are here on earth, we must live in it.  Sometimes the best defence is an offence.  I think after these Saracens murdered over 3,000 of my countrymen in front of my eyes, all of my good will and "understanding" with them ran out.  I hope they convert and I pray for them, but we are fools if we do not see that there are wolves at our door.  We are not fit to be called "men" if we do not protect our families, our countries and our Holy Faith.

You protect your families, and your country, but do not presume to be the protector of the Holy Faith sir, by killing or persecuting those who do not agree with your interpretation of the same. That is God's prerogative, not yours, and at present, he does neither.  Those who think like you, do not just war against those who they consider a military threat, they do, and have exterminated entire populations and peoples simply because they would not submit to your faith.  Even though they were no threat to life, limb, or property of the same.  God does not need you or your Church to hunt down and kill or persecute all those who will not submit to your faith.  The act of doing so itself is blasphemous.  If Christ is truly your king, then follow His example.  Leave the old covenant sir, and enter into the new.  It is also blasphemous to reestablish that which God has chosen to abolish in and through His precious Son Jesus Christ.