Is Universalism Biblical? ( A Closer Look )

[gospel]

Is Universalism Biblical?

From an article published by Reasoning from the Scriptures Ministry

       Universalism states that sooner or later all people will be saved. This position holds that the concepts of hell and punishment are inconsistent with a loving God.

       The older form of universalism, originating in the second century, taught that salvation would come after a temporary period of punishment. The newer form of universalism declares that all men are now saved, though all do not realize it. Therefore the job of the preacher and the missionary is to tell people they are already saved. Certain passages - John 12:32, Philippians 2:11, and 1 Timothy 2:4 - are typically twisted out of context in support of universalism.

       Such passages, interpreted properly, do not support universalism:

           * John 12:32 says that Christ's work on the cross makes possible the salvation of both Jews and Gentiles. Notice, however, that the Lord - in the same passage - warned of judgment of those who reject Christ (v. 48).
           * Philippians 2:10-11 assures us that someday all people will acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, but not necessarily as Savior. (Even those in hell will have to acknowledge Christ's Lordship.)
           * First Timothy 2:4 expresses God's desire that all be saved, but does not promise that all will be. This divine desire is only realized in those who exercise faith in Christ.

       The Scriptures consistently categorize people into one of two classes (saved/unsaved, also called believers/unbelievers), and portray the final destiny of every person as being one of two realities (heaven or hell).

           * In Matthew 13:30 Jesus in a parable said, "Let both [tares and wheat] grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn." Here unbelievers and believers are spoken of as tares and wheat. Two classes!
           * In Matthew 13:49 Jesus said, "This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous." Again, two classes are mentioned - unbelievers and believers spoken of as the wicked and the righteous.
           * In Matthew 25:32 Jesus said that following His second coming, "All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." Here believers and unbelievers are differentiated by the terms "sheep" and "goats." The sheep will enter into God's kingdom (vs. 34) and inherit eternal life (vs. 46). The goats go into eternal punishment (vs. 46).
           * In Luke 16:26 we find Abraham in the afterlife telling the unsaved rich man: "Between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us." Hades apparently had two compartments: "paradise" for the saved, and "torments" for the unsaved - and these compartments were separated by a great chasm or gulf.

       Clearly, then, the Scriptures speak of two classes of people (the saved and the unsaved) and two possible destinies (heaven for the saved; hell for the unsaved). And each respective person ends up in one of these places based upon whether or not he or she placed saving faith in Christ during his or her time on earth (Acts 16:31).

[jiggyfly]

Gen 12:3 And in you [Abraham] all the families of the earth will be blessed.

Gen 22:18 And in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice. [This promise is repeated over and over throughout scripture.]

Num 14:20 So the Lord said [speaking to Moses, who is a foretype of Christ as our intercessor], "I have pardoned them according to your word; but indeed, as I live, all the earth will be filled with the glory of the Lord."

II Sam14:14 For we shall surely die and are like water spilled on the ground which cannot be gathered up again. Yet God does not take away life, but plans ways so that the banished one may not be cast out from him.

I Kings 8:43 Hear Thou in heaven Thy dwelling place, and do according to all for which the foreigner calls to Thee, in order that all the peoples of the earth may know Thy name, to fear Thee, as do Thy people Israel, and that they may know that this house which I [Solomon] have built is called by Thy name.

I Kings 8:60 So that all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God; there is no one else.

II Kings19:19 That all the kingdoms of the earth may know that Thou alone, O Lord, art God.

I Chron 16:34 O give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; For His mercy (lovingkindness, NAS) endureth forever.

II Chron 20;21

Give thanks to the Lord, for His mercy endureth forever.

Ps 9:7-8 But the Lord abides forever; He has established His throne for judgment, and He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute (minister, KJ) judgment for [not against] the peoples with equity.

Ps 22:27-30 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations will worship before Thee. For the kingdom is the Lord's, and He rules over the nations. All the proud [literally, "fat ones"] of the earth will eat and worship, even he who cannot keep his soul alive. Posterity will serve Him.

Ps 30:5 For His anger is but for a moment, His favor is for a lifetime; Weeping may last for the night, but a shout of joy comes in the morning.

Ps 33:8 Let all the earth fear the Lord; let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.

Ps 46:10 Cease striving [be still] and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations; I will be exalted in the earth.

Ps 65:2,5 To Thee all men [lit. all flesh] come...Thou who art the trust of all the ends of the earth and of the farthest sea.

Ps 66:1,4 Shout joyfully to God, all the earth...All the earth will worship Thee, and will sing praises to Thee; they will sing praises to Thy name.

Ps 67:1-7 God be gracious [ed., grace to us] to us and bless us, and cause His face to shine upon us, that Thy way may be known on the earth, Thy salvation among all nations...Let all the peoples praise Thee. Let the nations be glad...for Thou wilt judge the peoples with uprightness, and guide the nations on the earth...that all the ends of the earth may fear Him.

Ps 68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, Thou hast led captive [ed., capture in order to set free] Thy captives; Thou hast given gifts among men, even among the rebellious also, that the Lord God may dwell there.

Ps 69:34 Let heaven and earth praise Him, the seas and everything that moves in them.

Ps 72:8-19 May He also rule from sea to sea, and from the river to the ends of the earth...and let all kings bow down before Him, all nations serve Him...Let all nations call Him blessed...And may the whole earth be filled with His glory. Amen and Amen.

Ps 86:9 All nations whom Thou hast made shall come and worship before Thee, O Lord; And they shall glorify Thy name.

Ps 96:1-12 Sing to the Lord, all the earth...His wonderful deeds among all the peoples...Tremble before Him, all the earth...Then all the trees of the forest [ed., a metaphor for all the peoples of the earth] will sing for joy before the Lord, for He is coming...

Ps 98:3,4 All the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God. Shout joyfully to the Lord, all the earth; break forth and sing for joy and sing praises.

Ps 145:9-10 The Lord is good to all, and His mercies are over all His works. All Thy works shall give thanks to Thee, O Lord, and Thy godly ones shall bless Thee.

Ps 145:14-16 The Lord sustains all who fall, and raises up all who are bowed down. The eyes of all look to Thee, and Thou dost give them their food in due time. Thou dost open Thy hand, and dost satisfy the desire of every living thing.

Ps 145:21 And all flesh will bless His holy name forever and ever.

Ps 150:6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord. Praise the Lord!


Is 19:21 Thus the Lord will make Himself known to Egypt [Ed., they were enemies of God at the time], and the Egyptians will know the Lord in that day. They will even worship with sacrifice and offering, and will make a vow to the Lord and perform it.

Is 19:22 And the Lord will strike Egypt, striking but healing; so they will return to the Lord, and He will respond to them and will heal them.

Is 25:6-8 And the Lord of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain [Mount Zion]...and on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples, even the veil which is stretched over all nations. He will swallow up death for all time, and the Lord God will wipe tears away from all faces.

Is 26:9 For when the earth experiences Thy judgments, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.

Is 40:5 Then the glory of the Lord will be revealed, and all flesh will see it together; for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

Is 45:22-23 Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; [Ed., This is a firm declaration of His purpose, not a general call or request for repentance, as is evident by the rest of the verse.] For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, the word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

Is 53:6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; But the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him.

Is 66:18 For I know their works and their thoughts; the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and see My glory.

Is 66:23 All mankind will come to bow down before Me, says the Lord.

Lam 3:31-32 For the Lord will not reject forever, for if He causes grief, then He will have compassion according to His abundant lovingkindness.

Daniel 7:27 Then the sovereignty, the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.

Micah 4:6-7

"In that day," declares the Lord, "I will assemble the lame, and gather the outcasts, even those whom I have afflicted. I will make the lame a remnant, and the outcasts a strong nation, and the Lord will reign over them in Mount Zion from now on and forever.
Micah 7:18-19 Who is a God like Thee, who pardons iniquity and passes over the rebellious act of the remnant of His possession? He does not retain His anger forever, because He delights in unchanging love. He will again have compassion on us; He will tread our iniquities underfoot. Yes, Thou wilt cast all our sins into the depths of the sea.

Hab 2:14 For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

Zeph 2:11 The Lord will be terrifying to them, for He will starve all the gods of the earth; and all the coastlands of the nations will bow down to Him, every one from his own place.

Zeph 3:8-9 Indeed, My decision is to gather nations, to assemble kingdoms, to pour out on them My indignation, all My burning anger; for all the earth will be devoured by the fire of My zeal. For then I will give to the peoples purified lips, that all of them may call on the name of the Lord, to serve Him shoulder to shoulder.

Hag 2:6-9 For thus says the Lord of hosts, "Once more in a little while, I am going to shake the heavens and the earth, the sea also and the dry land. And I will shake all the nations; and they will come [or, the Desire of all nations will come] with the wealth of the nations; and I will fill this house with glory," says the Lord of hosts. "The silver is Mine, and the gold is Mine," declares the Lord of hosts. "The latter glory of this house will be greater than the former," says the Lord of hosts, "and in this place I shall give peace," declares the Lord of hosts.

Zech 2:10-11 Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and I will dwell in your midst, declares the Lord. And many nations will join themselves to the Lord in that day and will become My people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you.

Zech 9:10 And He will speak peace to the nations; and His dominion will be from sea to sea, and from the River to the ends of the earth.

Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, My name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense is going to be offered to My name, and a grain offering that is pure; for My name will be great among the nations," says the Lord of hosts.

Mal 2:10 Do we not all have one father? Has not one God created us?

Mt 18:12,14 What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? Thus it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.

Lk 2:10 And the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which shall be for all the people."

Lk 15:4-7 What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture, and go after the one which is lost, until he finds it? And when [Ed., not if] he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing... I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents, than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

Lk 23:34 Jesus said, "Father forgive them; they know not what they do."


Jn 1:29 The next day he [John the Baptist] saw Jesus coming to him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"


Jn 3:17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through Him.

Jn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.


Acts 3;20-21 And that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the times of the restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

Rom 5:18-20 So then as through one transgression [Adam's] there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness [Christ's] there resulted justification of life to all men. For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One, the many will be made righteous. And the Law came in that the transgression might increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more!

[Ed., As J.B. Phillips so succinctly puts it, "Grace is the ruling factor!"]
Rom 8:19-21 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it in hope, that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Rom 11:15 For if their rejection [i.e., the Jew's rejection of Christ] be the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

Rom 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in; and thus all Israel will be saved.

Rom 11:32,33

For God has shut up all in disobedience that He might show mercy to all. Oh the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!
Rom 11;36 For from Him [Christ] and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

Rom 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and stand he will, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Rom 14:11 For as it is written, "As I live", says the Lord, "every knee shall bow to me [ie. repentance], and every tongue shall give praise to God". [ie. worship]

[jiggyfly]

I Cor 3:15 If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire.

I Cor 5:4,5 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. [See I Peter 4:6!]

I Cor 13:8 Love never fails.


I Cor 15:22,28

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive. But each in his own order... [Ed., This phrase is the real key to understanding God's purposes in relation to His time schedule.] "And when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, that God may be all in all."

I Cor 15:54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory."


II Cor 5:14,15 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, that they should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

II Cor 5:18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ, and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was [Ed., and is] in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Gal 3:8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the nations by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations shall be blessed in you."


Eph 1:9,10 He make known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things upon the earth.

Eph 1:22,23 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fulness of Him who fills all in all.

Eph 3:8-11 To me [Paul]...this grace was given...to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things; in order that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Eph 4:5,6 There is...one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

Eph 4:10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.

Phil 2:9-11 Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Phil 3;21 ...who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

Col 1:19-22 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fulness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach.


Col 3:11 Christ is all, and in all.


I Tim 1:13 Even though I [Paul] was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor, yet I was shown mercy, because I acted ignorantly in unbelief.


I Tim 1:15 Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I [Paul] am foremost.

[Ed., Again, if Paul is the foremost sinner, then hasn't God's plan of redemption been accomplished to the foremost?]
I Tim 2:5,6 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to be borne at the proper time.


I Tim 4:10 It is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.


Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men.

Heb 1:2 In these last days He has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Heb 2:8 For in subjecting all things to him [ie., man], He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him...But we do see Him who has been made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God He might taste death for every one.

Heb 9:26 But now once at the consummation He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

I Pet 2:12 Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may on account of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.

I Pet 3:18-20 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah...

I Pet 4:6 For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that even though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God. (see I Cor 5:5)

II Pet 3:8,9 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing [literally "not purposing", from the Greek: boulema, "predetermined purpose"] that any should perish but for all to come to repentance.


I John 4:14 And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Rev 5:13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."

Rev 15:3,4 And they sang the song of Moses... and the song of the Lamb, saying, "Great and marvelous are Thy works, O Lord God, the Almighty; Righteous and true are Thy ways, Thou King of the Nations. Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Thy name? For Thou alone art holy; For all the nations will come and worship before Thee, for Thy righteous acts have been revealed."

[GTM]

jiggyfly

Doe this mean that I can go out and get drunk tonight and chase women?

GTM

[Bon Voyage]

jiggyfly

Doe this mean that I can go out and get drunk tonight and chase women?

GTM

I guess so.  Sin so grace can abound.

[Bonnie]

jiggyfly

Doe this mean that I can go out and get drunk tonight and chase women?

GTM

Hey, GTM.

[GTM]

Bonnie

Hey, GTM.

Hey to you too! It has been a while.

I am just seeing if I can stir up some dust.   

God Bless

GTM

[Bonnie]

Bonnie

Hey, GTM.

Hey to you too! It has been a while.

I am just seeing if I can stir up some dust.   

God Bless

GTM

LOL
Always nice to see you posting. 

[GTM]

Bonnie

  You are always like a breath of Fresh Kentucky Air. 

God Bless.

GTM

[jiggyfly]

jiggyfly

Doe this mean that I can go out and get drunk tonight and chase women?

GTM

Is that what is in your heart?

[jiggyfly]

So no one has an answer to the scriptures I posted other than straw man posts. Jest all you want but I did post more than just a scripture or two that support Universal Reconciliation. I know that many of you will just dismiss my post, ignore the scriptures and continue to embrace unending torment in hell as the truth even though it conflicts with scripture and God's character

1John 4:17-18  God is love. When we take up permanent residence in a life of love, we live in God and God lives in us. This way, love has the run of the house, becomes at home and mature in us, so that we're free of worry on Judgment Day—our standing in the world is identical with Christ's. There is no room in love for fear. Well-formed love banishes fear. Since fear is crippling, a fearful life—fear of death, fear of judgment—is one not yet fully formed in love.

[GTM]

Jiggyfly

you quoted

I Pet 2:12 Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may on account of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.

lets start with this one.

What role doe this verse play in universalism?

GTM

[jiggyfly]

Jiggyfly

you quoted

I Pet 2:12 Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may on account of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.

lets start with this one.

What role doe this verse play in universalism?

GTM

In this scripture who is going to glorify God? The slandering Gentiles.

Is there any order to your questioning or is it random? Wouldn't be better to start with the first and work down to the last, or is this the first one on the list that you question?

[GTM]

Jiggyfly

In this scripture who is going to glorify God? The slandering Gentiles.

That isn't what the text says.

(Amplified)  12Conduct yourselves properly (honorably, righteously) among the Gentiles, so that, although they may slander you as evildoers, [yet] they may by witnessing your good deeds [come to] glorify God in the day of inspection [[a]when God shall look upon you wanderers as a pastor or shepherd looks over his flock].

This text is not understood as an absolute but as a result of our action. "That they may", suggests the idea that "they might" not that "they will".



I

s there any order to your questioning or is it random? Wouldn't be better to start with the first and work down to the last, or is this the first one on the list that you question?

I just grabbed one and thought I would run with it. 

GTM

[Debbie_55]

if we are already saved according to Universalism then what was the whole purpose of Jesus life, death and resurrection. would not all of that be in vain! Is it not Jesus that said in John 10:9 I am the door, if any man enter in, he shall be saved. John 14:6 Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Romans 10:9, 10 if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shall be saved. Vs.10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

These scriptures show me that I have to repent of my sins and ask Jesus into my heart to have a personal relationship with Him. Here are a few more that teaches us how to be saved. There are so many religions out in the world and the only way we will ever know truth is by the Spirit of God teaching us all things. God is not about a mans choice of religion, God is about a personal relationship with His son Christ Jesus.

John 3:3-21 except a man be born again of water and Spirit he cannot enter into the
Kingdom of God. Vs.6 that which is born of the Flesh is flesh and that which is born of the
Spirit is spirit. Flesh cannot perceive the things of the Spirit and is enmity against God,
Romans 8:6, 7.

John 9:31  Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshiper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.   

[jiggyfly]

if we are already saved according to Universalism then what was the whole purpose of Jesus life, death and resurrection. would not all of that be in vain! Is it not Jesus that said in John 10:9 I am the door, if any man enter in, he shall be saved. John 14:6 Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Romans 10:9, 10 if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shall be saved. Vs.10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

These scriptures show me that I have to repent of my sins and ask Jesus into my heart to have a personal relationship with Him. Here are a few more that teaches us how to be saved. There are so many religions out in the world and the only way we will ever know truth is by the Spirit of God teaching us all things. God is not about a mans choice of religion, God is about a personal relationship with His son Christ Jesus.

John 3:3-21 except a man be born again of water and Spirit he cannot enter into the
Kingdom of God. Vs.6 that which is born of the Flesh is flesh and that which is born of the
Spirit is spirit. Flesh cannot perceive the things of the Spirit and is enmity against God,
Romans 8:6, 7.

John 9:31  Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshiper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.  

First off Debbie where did you get the idea that that Universal Reconciliation teaches such a thing? Has anyone here that supports UR beliefs said anything along these lines?  You know there is a difference between stating everyone one is reconciled and everyone will be reconciled. I think you may be confused about what UR is and what it teaches? It might be a help for you to read some of the other threads here concerning the topic.

UR believes that all will be reconciled back to Father through Christ.

[jiggyfly]

Jiggyfly

In this scripture who is going to glorify God? The slandering Gentiles.

That isn't what the text says.

(Amplified)  12Conduct yourselves properly (honorably, righteously) among the Gentiles, so that, although they may slander you as evildoers, [yet] they may by witnessing your good deeds [come to] glorify God in the day of inspection [[a]when God shall look upon you wanderers as a pastor or shepherd looks over his flock].

This text is not understood as an absolute but as a result of our action. "That they may", suggests the idea that "they might" not that "they will".



I

s there any order to your questioning or is it random? Wouldn't be better to start with the first and work down to the last, or is this the first one on the list that you question?

I just grabbed one and thought I would run with it. 

GTM

True but it does show that it is a possibility, doesn't it?

[Dayvd]

Universalism states that sooner or later all people will be saved. This position holds that the concepts of hell and punishment are inconsistent with a loving God.

       The older form of universalism, originating in the second century, taught that salvation would come after a temporary period of punishment. The newer form of universalism declares that all men are now saved, though all do not realize it. Therefore the job of the preacher and the missionary is to tell people they are already saved.

So Jiggy and others are these accurate statements regarding UR?

Is there 2 forms of UR and if so which form do you find to be most Bibically correct?

Any other statements that you'd add to better clarify or communicate your belief of UR?

Sorry Jig, I just can't get my brain around the idea of reading multiple threads to find those few posts that may or may not describe the UR beliefs.

[jiggyfly]

Universalism states that sooner or later all people will be saved. This position holds that the concepts of hell and punishment are inconsistent with a loving God.

       The older form of universalism, originating in the second century, taught that salvation would come after a temporary period of punishment. The newer form of universalism declares that all men are now saved, though all do not realize it. Therefore the job of the preacher and the missionary is to tell people they are already saved.

So Jiggy and others are these accurate statements regarding UR?

Is there 2 forms of UR and if so which form do you find to be most Bibically correct?

Any other statements that you'd add to better clarify or communicate your belief of UR?

Sorry Jig, I just can't get my brain around the idea of reading multiple threads to find those few posts that may or may not describe the UR beliefs.

The belief of UR that I hold to and am familiar with is the belief that all will be reconciled to Father through Christ. Read some of the other threads concerning this topic and I think it will be very clear what Sherman, I and some of the others believe (by the way there are more than just a few). If your not willing to read the previous posts in another thread,  then isn't it logical to assume that you won't read it here in this thread?

[farouk]

Ms Debbie:

Good verses quoted.

The bottom line: where does the Person and work of Christ fit in? is a good one to ask in relation to any scheme of things that people might suggest.

Take care.

if we are already saved according to Universalism then what was the whole purpose of Jesus life, death and resurrection. would not all of that be in vain! Is it not Jesus that said in John 10:9 I am the door, if any man enter in, he shall be saved. John 14:6 Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Romans 10:9, 10 if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shall be saved. Vs.10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

These scriptures show me that I have to repent of my sins and ask Jesus into my heart to have a personal relationship with Him. Here are a few more that teaches us how to be saved. There are so many religions out in the world and the only way we will ever know truth is by the Spirit of God teaching us all things. God is not about a mans choice of religion, God is about a personal relationship with His son Christ Jesus.

John 3:3-21 except a man be born again of water and Spirit he cannot enter into the
Kingdom of God. Vs.6 that which is born of the Flesh is flesh and that which is born of the
Spirit is spirit. Flesh cannot perceive the things of the Spirit and is enmity against God,
Romans 8:6, 7.

John 9:31  Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshiper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.   

[GTM]

JiggyFly

you quoted:

True but it does show that it is a possibility, doesn't it?

But do you agree that they aren't the same thing? Might and will point to two very distinct and different outcomes.

What does the Greek say?

1 Peter 2:12

This text must be understood as a hypothesis or the the antecedent of a conditional proposition.

Here is what the Greek text looks like.

τὴν ἀναστροφὴν ὑμῶν ἐν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν ἔχοντες καλήν, ἵνα ἐν ᾧ καταλαλοῦσιν ὑμῶν ὡς κακοποιῶν ἐκ τῶν καλῶν ἔργων ἐποπτεύοντες δοξάσωσιν τὸν θεὸν ἐν ἡμέρᾳ ἐπισκοπῆς.

Lets first of all take a look at  καταλαλοῦσιν. This is a strong term and in the best manuscripts it speak about that which is  in the accusative case.  ἀναστροφὴν (behavior) and καλήν (excellent) are both accusative. This means to accuse based upon those two terms. In this case the term accuse is a hypothesis or in other words they might accuse you. The text doesn't say that they will accuse you. And the idea of us not living the Holy Life is that there will possibly be malicious gossip.

ἐποπτεύοντες (present active participle nominative plural masculine) The best manuscripts have this as an aorist participle.

It is most likely that the aorist participle was used to tell the readers (Christians) that the Gentiles of Asia (Those watching) must observe their good works which they performed before there would be a  conversion of those who hypothetically were doing the observing and the accusing . This makes the statement conditional.

In the preceding phrase we see the use of the Greek term ek  (ἐκ) which clearly point to the idea of "from". In this case it would be from their good works. Not only are these works seen but it is good that they are seen. As a result of this hypothetical statement we see that they might glorify God on the day of visitation.

Visitation doesn't speak of the Lords return but to a future time when they hear the good News of the Gospel. If you would like, we can take a look at the Greek in regards to that idea also. But I believe that at this point, it is safe to say that this text isn't one that clearly points to all will be saved.


God Bless

GTM



       

[Dayvd]

The belief of UR that I hold to and am familiar with is the belief that all will be reconciled to Father through Christ. Read some of the other threads concerning this topic and I think it will be very clear what Sherman, I and some of the others believe (by the way there are more than just a few). If your not willing to read the previous posts in another thread,  then isn't it logical to assume that you won't read it here in this thread?

Actually no I don't believe it is logical.  Personally if it were me I'd jump at every opportunity to clearly explain my beliefs.  There have been multipe requests made for a clear plain explanation of UR.  Multiple times you and others have commented that others seemingly don't understand UR based on the comments being made.  When asked your reply is that I should read thru multiple threads with a large number of posts all in hopes of somehow piecing together some sort of clear statement. 

Honestly Jig your response is rather 'off putting'.  While I am somewhat interested in a civi discussion of UR, this guessing of meanings and hide & seek is quickly cooling what interest I had.  I did start a search on you and Sherman and quickly came to the conclusion I simply am unwilling to do such a thing.  I've worked all day and am in pain.  I have no time for such nonsense.  So I went to Wiki and will use their understanding.  If it doesn't fit or is incorrect.. you've been given multiple opportunities.

Universal reconciliation, also called universal salvation or sometimes simply universalism, is the doctrine or belief of some Christians that all will receive salvation, regardless of belief, because of the love and mercy of God.

This is the main belief that distinguishes Christian Universalism from other forms of Christianity. Universal reconciliation states that every person will eventually experience salvation. Most forms of the doctrine assert that the suffering and crucifixion of Jesus Christ is the mechanism that provides reconciliation for all humankind and atonement for all sins. This concept is distinct from Unitarian Universalism, which is a syncretic religion that does not attribute particular properties such as salvation to Jesus.

Universal reconciliation is intimately related with the problem of Hell. There are various beliefs and views concerning the process or state of salvation, but all universalists conclude that it ultimately ends in the reconciliation and salvation of all mankind.

The belief in the eventual salvation of all humankind has been a topic of debate throughout the history of the Christian faith. In the early Church, universalism was a flourishing theological doctrine.

[jiggyfly]

JiggyFly

you quoted:

True but it does show that it is a possibility, doesn't it?

But do you agree that they aren't the same thing? Might and will point to two very distinct and different outcomes.

What does the Greek say?

1 Peter 2:12



This text must be understood as a hypothesis or the the antecedent of a conditional proposition.

Here is what the Greek text looks like.

τὴν ἀναστροφὴν ὑμῶν ἐν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν ἔχοντες καλήν, ἵνα ἐν ᾧ καταλαλοῦσιν ὑμῶν ὡς κακοποιῶν ἐκ τῶν καλῶν ἔργων ἐποπτεύοντες δοξάσωσιν τὸν θεὸν ἐν ἡμέρᾳ ἐπισκοπῆς.

Lets first of all take a look at  καταλαλοῦσιν. This is a strong term and in the best manuscripts it speak about that which is  in the accusative case.  ἀναστροφὴν (behavior) and καλήν (excellent) are both accusative. This means to accuse based upon those two terms. In this case the term accuse is a hypothesis or in other words they might accuse you. The text doesn't say that they will accuse you. And the idea of us not living the Holy Life is that there will possibly be malicious gossip.

ἐποπτεύοντες (present active participle nominative plural masculine) The best manuscripts have this as an aorist participle.

It is most likely that the aorist participle was used to tell the readers (Christians) that the Gentiles of Asia (Those watching) must observe their good works which they performed before there would be a  conversion of those who hypothetically were doing the observing and the accusing . This makes the statement conditional.

In the preceding phrase we see the use of the Greek term ek  (ἐκ) which clearly point to the idea of "from". In this case it would be from their good works. Not only are these works seen but it is good that they are seen. As a result of this hypothetical statement we see that they might glorify God on the day of visitation.

Visitation doesn't speak of the Lords return but to a future time when they hear the good News of the Gospel. If you would like, we can take a look at the Greek in regards to that idea also. But I believe that at this point, it is safe to say that this text isn't one that clearly points to all will be saved.


God Bless

GTM



     

Yes I agree that "might" is more accurate but they are not forced to glorify God. But this is just one verse out of many.

But lets look at what this visitation is to be exactly, I personally don't agree with limiting it to "hearing the gospel".

[jiggyfly]

The belief of UR that I hold to and am familiar with is the belief that all will be reconciled to Father through Christ. Read some of the other threads concerning this topic and I think it will be very clear what Sherman, I and some of the others believe (by the way there are more than just a few). If your not willing to read the previous posts in another thread,  then isn't it logical to assume that you won't read it here in this thread?

Actually no I don't believe it is logical.  Personally if it were me I'd jump at every opportunity to clearly explain my beliefs.  There have been multipe requests made for a clear plain explanation of UR.  Multiple times you and others have commented that others seemingly don't understand UR based on the comments being made.  When asked your reply is that I should read thru multiple threads with a large number of posts all in hopes of somehow piecing together some sort of clear statement. 

Honestly Jig your response is rather 'off putting'.  While I am somewhat interested in a civi discussion of UR, this guessing of meanings and hide & seek is quickly cooling what interest I had.  I did start a search on you and Sherman and quickly came to the conclusion I simply am unwilling to do such a thing.  I've worked all day and am in pain.  I have no time for such nonsense.  So I went to Wiki and will use their understanding.  If it doesn't fit or is incorrect.. you've been given multiple opportunities.

Universal reconciliation, also called universal salvation or sometimes simply universalism, is the doctrine or belief of some Christians that all will receive salvation, regardless of belief, because of the love and mercy of God.

This is the main belief that distinguishes Christian Universalism from other forms of Christianity. Universal reconciliation states that every person will eventually experience salvation. Most forms of the doctrine assert that the suffering and crucifixion of Jesus Christ is the mechanism that provides reconciliation for all humankind and atonement for all sins. This concept is distinct from Unitarian Universalism, which is a syncretic religion that does not attribute particular properties such as salvation to Jesus.

Universal reconciliation is intimately related with the problem of Hell. There are various beliefs and views concerning the process or state of salvation, but all universalists conclude that it ultimately ends in the reconciliation and salvation of all mankind.

The belief in the eventual salvation of all humankind has been a topic of debate throughout the history of the Christian faith. In the early Church, universalism was a flourishing theological doctrine.

Well I guess maybe I misjudged your motivation and apologize. If you have read any of the other threads surely you have detected those who disregard and ignore such posts and continually post straw man arguments. Where shall we start?

[k-pappy]

Is Universalism Biblical?

No.

In Christ,
KP

[jiggyfly]

Is Universalism Biblical?

No.

In Christ,
KP

Do you know the scriptures?

Do you believe that Christ succeeded in what He was sent to do? Do you believe that God works everything according to His will and purpose?

[GTM]

Jiggyfly

You said:

Yes I agree that "might" is more accurate but they are not forced to glorify God. But this is just one verse out of many.

You said that they re not forced to glorify God. This statement is very true. But at the same time this text doesn't say that all do glorify God.


I will address the word visitation tonight.

God Bless and have a good day

GTM

[Dayvd]

Where shall we start?

Personally I'd like to hear you, Sherman or one of the others provide a clear explanation of you belief.  I think I've seen enough that it's pretty clear that those who disagree are somewhat confused about what ya'll are saying.

After that I'd suggest posting the 5 strongest Biblical passages that support your belief.

[k-pappy]

Is Universalism Biblical?

No.

In Christ,
Bond

Do you know the scriptures?

Do you believe that Christ succeeded in what He was sent to do? Do you believe that God works everything according to His will and purpose?

Yes, yes an yes.  The answer to the original question is still no.

In Christ,
Bond

[jiggyfly]

Is Universalism Biblical?

No.

In Christ,
Bond

Do you know the scriptures?

Do you believe that Christ succeeded in what He was sent to do? Do you believe that God works everything according to His will and purpose?

Yes, yes an yes.  The answer to the original question is still no.

In Christ,
Bond

So then you don't believe that Christ was sent to save the world or that It is Gods will for none to perish. I hope you know that your belief conflicts with scripture.

[jiggyfly]

Where shall we start?

Personally I'd like to hear you, Sherman or one of the others provide a clear explanation of you belief.  I think I've seen enough that it's pretty clear that those who disagree are somewhat confused about what ya'll are saying.

After that I'd suggest posting the 5 strongest Biblical passages that support your belief.

Sure thing I will work on it tonight when I get home, it may be tomorrow before I post it though, so  your patience is appreciated.

[Debbie_55]

if we are already saved according to Universalism then what was the whole purpose of Jesus life, death and resurrection. would not all of that be in vain! Is it not Jesus that said in John 10:9 I am the door, if any man enter in, he shall be saved. John 14:6 Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Romans 10:9, 10 if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shall be saved. Vs.10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

These scriptures show me that I have to repent of my sins and ask Jesus into my heart to have a personal relationship with Him. Here are a few more that teaches us how to be saved. There are so many religions out in the world and the only way we will ever know truth is by the Spirit of God teaching us all things. God is not about a mans choice of religion, God is about a personal relationship with His son Christ Jesus.

John 3:3-21 except a man be born again of water and Spirit he cannot enter into the
Kingdom of God. Vs.6 that which is born of the Flesh is flesh and that which is born of the
Spirit is spirit. Flesh cannot perceive the things of the Spirit and is enmity against God,
Romans 8:6, 7.

John 9:31  Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshiper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.  

First off Debbie where did you get the idea that that Universal Reconciliation teaches such a thing? Has anyone here that supports UR beliefs said anything along these lines?  You know there is a difference between stating everyone one is reconciled and everyone will be reconciled. I think you may be confused about what UR is and what it teaches? It might be a help for you to read some of the other threads here concerning the topic.

UR believes that all will be reconciled back to Father through Christ.

jiggyfly I got it from what gospel posted about what they believe.

Is Universalism Biblical?
From an article published by Reasoning from the Scriptures Ministry



        Universalism states that sooner or later all people will be saved. This position holds that the concepts of hell and punishment are inconsistent with a loving God.

        The older form of universalism, originating in the second century, taught that salvation would come after a temporary period of punishment. The newer form of universalism declares that all men are now saved, though all do not realize it. Therefore the job of the preacher and the missionary is to tell people they are already saved. Certain passages - John 12:32, Philippians 2:11, and 1 Timothy 2:4 - are typically twisted out of context in support of universalism.

[jiggyfly]

if we are already saved according to Universalism then what was the whole purpose of Jesus life, death and resurrection. would not all of that be in vain! Is it not Jesus that said in John 10:9 I am the door, if any man enter in, he shall be saved. John 14:6 Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Romans 10:9, 10 if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shall be saved. Vs.10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

These scriptures show me that I have to repent of my sins and ask Jesus into my heart to have a personal relationship with Him. Here are a few more that teaches us how to be saved. There are so many religions out in the world and the only way we will ever know truth is by the Spirit of God teaching us all things. God is not about a mans choice of religion, God is about a personal relationship with His son Christ Jesus.

John 3:3-21 except a man be born again of water and Spirit he cannot enter into the
Kingdom of God. Vs.6 that which is born of the Flesh is flesh and that which is born of the
Spirit is spirit. Flesh cannot perceive the things of the Spirit and is enmity against God,
Romans 8:6, 7.

John 9:31  Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshiper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.   

First off Debbie where did you get the idea that that Universal Reconciliation teaches such a thing? Has anyone here that supports UR beliefs said anything along these lines?  You know there is a difference between stating everyone one is reconciled and everyone will be reconciled. I think you may be confused about what UR is and what it teaches? It might be a help for you to read some of the other threads here concerning the topic.

UR believes that all will be reconciled back to Father through Christ.

jiggyfly I got it from what gospel posted about what they believe.

Is Universalism Biblical?
From an article published by Reasoning from the Scriptures Ministry



        Universalism states that sooner or later all people will be saved. This position holds that the concepts of hell and punishment are inconsistent with a loving God.

        The older form of universalism, originating in the second century, taught that salvation would come after a temporary period of punishment. The newer form of universalism declares that all men are now saved, though all do not realize it. Therefore the job of the preacher and the missionary is to tell people they are already saved. Certain passages - John 12:32, Philippians 2:11, and 1 Timothy 2:4 - are typically twisted out of context in support of universalism.

FYI, I would not put much trust into Gospel's opinion or his posted article its just propaganda. Trust the scriptures, and I posted several times more scripture supporting UR than those listed in the OP.

Universal Reconciliation is the belief that all will eventually be reconciled back to God through Christ just as the scriptures plainly and clearly state. Read the scriptures that I posted and see what you think, but try and do it without a preconceived outcome or paradigm.

Didn't Jesus tell everyone to love their enemies and then they would be like His Father in heaven?  If endless torment were true He would have said torture your enemies and then you will be like My Father in heaven.

Do some word studies on aion, aionios, and olam and you will see things begin to line up without all the conflict that exists between the scriptures and endless torment in hell.

[k-pappy]

Is Universalism Biblical?

No.

In Christ,
Bond

Do you know the scriptures?

Do you believe that Christ succeeded in what He was sent to do? Do you believe that God works everything according to His will and purpose?

Yes, yes an yes.  The answer to the original question is still no.

In Christ,
Bond

So then you don't believe that Christ was sent to save the world or that It is Gods will for none to perish. I hope you know that your belief conflicts with scripture.

That is a pretty presumptuous statement.  You do not even know what my beliefs are.

I'll be nice and tell you my beliefs, and then you prove they conflict with Scripture.

I believe the only way to get to our Father in Heaven is through Jesus Christ.

Prove me wrong.

In Christ,
Bond

[jiggyfly]

Is Universalism Biblical?

No.

In Christ,
Bond

Do you know the scriptures?

Do you believe that Christ succeeded in what He was sent to do? Do you believe that God works everything according to His will and purpose?

Yes, yes an yes.  The answer to the original question is still no.

In Christ,
Bond

So then you don't believe that Christ was sent to save the world or that It is Gods will for none to perish. I hope you know that your belief conflicts with scripture.

That is a pretty presumptuous statement.  You do not even know what my beliefs are.

I'll be nice and tell you my beliefs, and then you prove they conflict with Scripture.

I believe the only way to get to our Father in Heaven is through Jesus Christ.

Prove me wrong.

In Christ,
Bond

Why would I want to prove you wrong? I agree with you on this point and have never said anything to the contrary.

But you answered yes to my questions earlier imply that you agree that Jesus accomplished what He was sent to do, He was sent to save the world. You also agreed that Father works everything according to his will and purpose and His will is that none perish. So do you agree that all will be reconciled?