WHAT ARE THE SABBATHS IN COLOSSIANS 2:16, 17 SHADOWS OF?

[MARTIN]

What are the Sabbaths in Colossians 2:16, 17 shadows of?? and what are the "good things" to come in verse 17 referring to??

I am looking forward to discussing these questions and hopefully we will all learn from this exchange.

An illustration that we might consider--if we have a shadow of a house, we already know that the shadow is not the house. The house is something of substance. It is the house that caused the shadow.

[Amo]

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ....................................................................................................................16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

The Sabbath days mentioned above, are not the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, but the Sabbath days of the ceremonial laws.  None of the ten commandments are mentioned in the above verses.  It is all about not being worried about the commandments and doctrines of men.  This can absolutely not be said regarding any of the ten commandments, all of which were spoken and written by God Himself.  Beside the fact that Paul would be contradicting his own words in other scriptures, if he were telling people not to worry about keeping the fourth commandment.

Here are some other scriptures where Paul is talking about the ten commandments.

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 7:14  For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Romans 8  1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.  2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.  3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:  4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.  6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.  7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.  8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.  9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.  10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

You cannot establish a law, by ignoring it.  It is the carnal mind that is not subject to the law of God, and neither indeed can be, not the mind which has the Holy Spirit of God.

The ceremonial laws were tied to the sanctuary and it's services. Most of which were types and shadows of Christ's life, death, resurrection, ministry as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary, and final victory over sin and Satan for all those who have put their trust in Him.

[MARTIN]

Amo, we would definitely agree on the points that you mentioned.  I would like to add a little more specific detail regarding what are the "things to come" in connection with the "Sabbath days".  

What are these "Sabbath days" shadows of?  A shadow has no substance of itself.  If a "Sabbath" is a "shadow", it is definitely not of substance.  But a substance causes a shadow.  Therefore, a "shadow" of a Sabbath, would necessarily be caused by the 7th-day Sabbath.  The 7th-day Sabbath is the only Sabbath that is not a  "shadow" or a "type" or a "prophecy".  Simply because it, the 7th-day Sabbath, is the substance that causes the shadow.  

The "shadow of the things to come" refers to the fulfillment of the types, both those relating to the first advent, as well as the types relating to the second advent.  In 31 C.E.  when the spring feasts met fulfillment, all 8 of the "shadowy Sabbaths" listed in the spring feasts (Lev 23:11-21 KJV) came on 7th-day Sabbaths.  Jesus Himself gave us this interpretation by His fulfillment of these "shadowy Sabbaths" in the year of His crucifixion.

I would just add that the Passover, the Wave Sheaf, the 7th day of Unleavened Bread, and the Day of Pentecost were not specified in Leviticus to be "shadowy Sabbaths".  Therefore, in 31 C.E. these day mentioned did not fall on the 7th-day Sabbath.

[Charles Sloan]

The passover was a shadow of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, so maybe their is a similar parallel with the sabbath.

[Amo]

The passover was a shadow of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, so maybe their is a similar parallel with the sabbath.

The problem with the above, is that the sabbath was instituted before the fall, before there was even a need for a savior.  It was established by God, in a world without sin.  It's significance therefore, cannot be in regards to sin and salvation alone, as the passover obviously is, since it was intended to be kept by sinless humanity, as well now, as sinful humanity.  Yet it certainly has implications, and even amplified significance in a fallen world, in desperate need of entering into God's rest. 

Exod 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

God alone can sanctify anything.  He sanctified the seventh day at creation, since the fall, it has become a sign that He alone can sanctify the sinner.  The day is observed by faith alone in God's word regarding it.  Faith in God's word is the key to salvation, and therefore our sanctification also.  The seventh day sabbath is intricately connected to the same.  It will become the deciding issue between those who truly put their faith in God's word, and those who merely give Him lip service.  Between those who have submitted to the authority of God, and those who have chosen to submit to the authority of man, or self if you will.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Before Christ returns, the issue of authority will be settled in each heart.  The two prominent days of worship in this world will be the deciding issue.  Will we submit to the authority of God by observing the day which He blessed and sanctified at creation, reiterated in the ten commandments, established by the perfect obedience of His Son Jesus Christ, and will even be observed by us in heaven, or will we submit to the authority of mankind, and therefore self, in observing the day established by the authority and tradition of mere men?  Not just any man, but the very man of sin spoken of in biblical prophecy.  Who is the man of sin, but the one who establishes sin in the world by law, in contradiction, and rebellion against the law of God.  The final issue of course, revolves around who we will worship, by way of whose word we will put our faith in, mans, or God's.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

May God convict us all of our total dependents upon Him, and our total submission to the authority and power of His word.


Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

[MARTIN]

The passover was a shadow of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, so maybe their is a similar parallel with the sabbath.

If you're meaning the "shadowy Sabbaths",  then, yes, there is an exact parallel.  These are prophecies of 7th-day Sabbaths when the "shadowy Sabbaths"  would be fulfilled, such as in the year of the crucifixion.

[davidandme]

What are the Sabbaths in Colossians 2:16, 17 shadows of?? and what are the "good things" to come in verse 17 referring to??

I am looking forward to discussing these questions and hopefully we will all learn from this exchange.

An illustration that we might consider--if we have a shadow of a house, we already know that the shadow is not the house. The house is something of substance. It is the house that caused the shadow.

The ceremonial sabbaths, of which Paul wrote in Colossians 2:16, 17 and Galatians 4:10, were only a shadow of the sacrifice of Christ and redemption. Thus, they must not be confused with the weekly Sabbath, which was given to mankind as a rest day. It is the Lord's day, which was instituted at creation. Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; Leviticus 23:3; Isaiah 58:13; Mark 2:27, 28.

The ceremonial law included the following shadow sabbaths:
Feast of Unleavened Bread: The passover preceded the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The fifteenth and twenty-first days of the first month of the Jewish year were celebrated as sabbaths with all servile work set aside. Leviticus 23:5-8.
Pentecost or Feast of Weeks: The fiftieth day, counted from the sixteenth day of the first month, was celebrated as a sabbath. Leviticus 23:15, 16, 21; Exodus 34:22.
Feast of Trumpets: The first day of the seventh month, the day of the blowing of trumpets, was held in preparation for the Day of Atonement. Leviticus 23:24, 25.
Day of Atonement: The tenth day of the seventh month, known as the Day of Atonement, was designated as a most sacred sabbath. It was the climax in the series of ceremonial sabbaths. Leviticus 23:27, 28, 31, 32.
Feast of Tabernacles: The fifteenth and twenty-second days of the seventh month were joyfully celebrated as sabbaths of the feast of tabernacles. Leviticus 23:34-36, 39, 40.
If Jesus had abolished the weekly Sabbath and instituted Sunday by His death, then a specific command to that effect would have to be found in the Bible. Neither Jesus nor the apostles reported such a change. Just the opposite is proven by the following texts: Matthew 5:17, 18; 24:20; Acts 13:13, 14, 42-44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:2-4, 11.

[JOHNN]

davidandme:

I would wholeheartedly agree with your first paragraph as that is how I find the evidence in God's Word.

The latter part of your second paragraph regarding, the Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, and the first day and the eighth day of the Feast of Tabernacles, I would also
totally agree with because in Leviticus 23 these days are actually called "Sabbaths".

However, in the first part of your second paragraph are points that are not scripturally supported.  Many today are assuming that Passover, Wave Sheaf, the 7th day of Unleavened Bread, and the Day of Pentecost are "shadowy Sabbaths", when the verses in Leviticus 23, have the Passover on the 14th day of the first month, one day before a "shadowy Sabbath", and the Wave Sheaf offering which is the 16th day of the same month, occurring on "the morrow after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it." Leviticus 23:11 KJV.   The first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (the 15th day of the first month) is indeed a "shadowy Sabbath" as you stated and as the verse above names it as a Sabbath.  But the 7th day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (the 21st day of the first month), although having requirements of "no servile work", is not listed as a "shadowy Sabbath", but rather it is shown to come one day before a "shadowy Sabbath"--this Sabbath being the first "shadowy Sabbath" in the 7 Sabbath count to the day just before the Day of Pentecost.

"And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:  Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD." Leviticus 23:15, 16 KJV. 
This same verse gives the evidence that the Day of Pentecost came "on the morrow after the seventh Sabbath" which shows that the Day of Pentecost was not a "shadowy Sabbath", either.  It did have requirements of being a "holy convocation" and of doing "no servile work".

As an example, prayer meeting is a "holy convocation", but it is not a "shadowy Sabbath".
Likewise, the seventh day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the Day of Pentecost both were to observed as a "holy convocation", but one came on the day before a "shadowy Sabbath" and the other came "on the morrow" after the "shadowy Sabbath".  And that is just exactly how they fell in the weekly cycle the year of the Saviour's crucifixion. 

When these spring feast had their fulfillment in 31 C.E., the year of the crucifixion, we find
that all the "shadowy Sabbaths" within the spring feast days, all 8 coincided with a holy 7th-day Sabbath.  Passover fell on the 14th day of the first month, a day before a "shadowy Sabbath", on a Friday that year.  The first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the 15th day of the first month  (a "shadowy Sabbath) fell on the 7th day Sabbath that year and the Saviour rested in the tomb.  And Wave Sheaf, the 16th day of the first month, specified to come "on the morrow after the Sabbath, the priest shall wave it" Lev. 23:11 KJV came on a Sunday that year, fulfilling the prophecy of Moses exactly in regard to the events and the timing of the events.

The Day of Pentecost also fulfilled the timing of the old sanctuary prophetic rituals by falling on the "morrow after the seventh Sabbath, shall ye number 50 days" Levitucus 23:16, on a Sunday that year.

Just as you stated, that there would need to be a specific command to change the reverence of the holy 7th day Sabbath to the first day of the week, Sunday, (which there is none), so there would have to be a specific listing or naming of these feast days as Sabbaths when they have been clearly shown to be "on the morrow after the Sabbath, the priest shall wave it", "even unto the morrow after the 7th Sabbath, shall ye number 50 days".  Leviticus 23:11, 15, 16.
I agree that the 7th-day Sabbath has always been unchangeable.  It is not a type, or a shadow, or a prophecy of anything; but, the "shadowy Sabbaths" are types, shadows and prophecies of 7th-day Sabbaths.
   

[JOHNN]

The ceremonial "Sabbath" (shadow Sabbaths) are not the 7th-day Sabbath  Lev. 23:38, 39 (KJV) mentions that there were "Sabbaths" beside the Sabbaths of the Lord:

1. "Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, ... Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day [shall be] a sabbath, and on the eighth day [shall be] a sabbath." Lev. 23:38, 39 KJV.

2. The entire old covenant feast day schedule was based upon the moon cycle.

3. The 7th-day Sabbath was calculated entirely by the sun, each day being measured from sunset to sunset.

4. To enlarge upon the moon cycle, each month began with the new moon. The new moon falls on a different day of the week every month since the moon cycle is not an even 28-day cycle.

5. The special days designated as Sabbaths in Leviticus 23 (KJV) which were dispersed within the spring and fall feast days, were to be calculated from the new moon. Whichever day of the week that the new moon occurred on, then all of the "shadow" Sabbaths, scheduled from that new moon, fell on the same day of a week. For example, if the new moon occurred on a Wednesday, then the 15th day, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread would also occur on a Wednesday as would the other 7 "shadow" Sabbaths in the count to the day just preceding the Day of Pentecost (Lev. 23:15, 16 KJV) If the new moon occurred on the 7th-day Sabbath, then the "shadow" Sabbaths would all coincide with 7th-day Sabbaths until the day just before the Day of Pentecost.

6. This principle holds true for the "shadow" Sabbaths dispersed among the spring feasts scheduled from the first new moon of the year, as well, as those "shadow" Sabbaths of the fall feasts scheduled within the 7th month.

7. Incidentally, there are exactly 12 of these annual "shadow" Sabbaths, 8 of them dispersed within the spring feasts and the remaining 4 among the fall feasts.

8. One major proof that the "shadow" (ceremonial) Sabbaths of the old covenant system were not 7th-day Sabbaths is in the fall feast days that occurred in the 7th month. The new moon which was the 1st day of this month, is specified to be a Sabbath. Also, the 10th day of this same month has the same specification of being a Sabbath. These two Sabbaths being 9 days apart present an impossibility of both being 7th-day Sabbaths in that particular month. (A deeper study of this phenomenon will show the glorious design behind it, where on the surface it appears to be confusing.)

9. Now, taking another look at Colossians 2:16,17 (KJV) it states that the holydays, new moons, and Sabbath are shadows of things to come.

For example, if I have a pencil, it will make a shadow of a pencil. It will not make a shadow of a cookie, or a dog, or a cat. The shadow of a pencil is not the pencil. Let there be no confusion. One point to remember is that a shadow cannot make another shadow of anything. It is completely impossible.

10. It is an absolute impossibility that this Sabbath could be referring to the 7th day of the week because of the interpretation that the Messiah gave to the "shadow" Sabbaths within the literal 52-days of the spring feasts, from Passover to the Day of Pentecost. The type occurred on the antitype. The "shadow" Sabbaths fell on 7th-day Sabbaths. This is what the "shadow" Sabbaths were shadows of.

[JOHNN]

The Sadducee method of calculating the "shadow" Sabbaths within the annual feasts was to delay the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread until the next 7th-day Sabbath after the Passover that occurred on the 14th of the month. But this creates big problems for an understanding the "shadow" Sabbaths within the fall feasts. And, furthermore, the Messiah did not endorse the Sadducee method of interpretation.

The position that the Wave Sheaf offering was to be observed on the 16th of the first month, just as the Pharisees believed and taught, and just as the Messiah interpreted it when He fulfilled these feasts, is the correct position.

He fulfilled the springs feasts exactly as the Pharisees taught this doctrine. Every "shadow" Sabbath came on the 7th-day Sabbath. That is the reason why these Sabbaths were termed "high days", because the shadow fell on its reality. See John 19:31--KJV"for that Sabbath was an 'high day'". This is speaking the Sabbath that the Messiah lay in the tomb, which was the first day of Unleavened Bread.

The Sadducees position was to celebrate the Passover on the 14th day of the first month and then wait until the next 7th-day Sabbath to continue the schedule of the spring feasts, observing the Wave Sheaf offering "on the morrow after the Sabbath, the priest shall wave it." Lev. 23:11. They viewed this "shadow" Sabbath as a literal 7th-day Sabbath every year--BUT IF THEY DREW THIS POSITION ACROSS TO THE FALL FEASTS THEY HAD A HUGE PROBLEM WITH ALL 4 SABBATHS WITHIN THE FALL FEAST DAYS--because the 1st day of the seventh month which is stated to be a "Sabbath", as was the 10th day, do not consistently fall on the 7th-day Sabbath each year. Nor is it possible that it could ever be, since the Day of Atonement is scheduled on the 10th day of the 7th month.

The Sadducees perception was only in the physical realm--only that which they could see with their physical eyes, they had no spiritual eyesight. The texts below show some of what they believed.

"The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection,.." Matthew 22:23 KJV

"Then came to [him] certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection;" Luke 20:27 KJV

"For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both..." Act 23:8 KJV

This would be the reason that the Messiah gave such positive warnings against the doctrine of the Sadducees, and demonstrated the validity of the position of the Pharisees, and admonished believers to follow the teachings of the Pharisees, yet not to do as they do, as they were hypocrites--saying one thing and doing another.

Luke 24:44-46-"KJV And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:"

In these verses, the Messiah repeats to the disciples the subjects that He had discussed with them before His death. Now He opens their understanding so that they perceive the meaning of the old covenant system-the law of Moses-besides other Scriptures. In verse 46 He actually states, "THUS IT IS WRITTEN, AND THUS IT BEHOVED CHRIST TO SUFFER, AND TO RISE FROM THE DEAD THE THIRD DAY:'

[MARTIN]

The evidence for a future fulfillment of the fall feasts is:

[/b]

1.
The spring feasts were fulfilled in a literal 52-day setting in 31 C.E.   There is inspired evidence showing that the spring feasts will have an application for the end-time, as well, which I will explain later.

   The fall feasts have never been fulfilled in their literal 22-day setting with all the four "shadow

[MARTIN]

In the Jubile year on the Day of Atonement all the remaining slaves obtained their freedom.  This evidence shows that only the Day of Atonement has extra special significance in two    consecutive years, the Sabbatical year and the Jubile year.  By this divine placement on the tenth day of the seventh month, the Day of Atonement occurs on a 7th-day Sabbath in the Jubile year, the very year of its greatest significance.  Thus arranged the four "shadow

[MARTIN]

the Lord said to follow the teaching of the Pharisees [Matthew 23:2]. Just don't do what they do...as they are hypocrites. The Pharisees began the count of the omer on the 16th.....not the Sunday after the first weekly Sabbath.

Josephus, a reknowned Pharisee; [Antiquities III, Chapter X, Paragraph 5]

"In the month of Xanthicus, which is by us called Nisan, and is the beginning of our year, on the fourteenth day of the lunar month, when the sun is in Aries, (for in this month it was that we were delivered from bondage under the Egyptians,) the law ordained that we should every year slay that sacrifice which I before told you we slew when we came out of Egypt, and which was called the Passover; and so we do celebrate this passover in companies, leaving nothing of what we sacrifice till the day following. The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the passover, and falls on the fifteenth day of the month, and continues seven days, wherein they feed on unleavened bread; on every one of which days two bulls are killed, and one ram, and seven lambs. Now these lambs are entirely burnt, besides the kid of the goats which is added to all the rest, for sins; for it is intended as a feast for the priest on every one of those days. But on the second day of unleavened bread, which is the sixteenth day of the month, they first partake of the fruits of the earth, for before that day they do not touch them. And while they suppose it proper to honor God, from whom they obtain this plentiful provision, in the first place, they offer the first-fruits of their barley, and that in the manner following: They take a handful of the ears, and dry them, then beat them small, and purge the barley from the bran; they then bring one tenth deal to the altar, to God; and, casting one handful of it upon the fire, they leave the rest for the use of the priest. And after this it is that they may publicly or privately reap their harvest. They also at this participation of the first-fruits of the earth, sacrifice a lamb, as a burnt-offering to God. "

[robert two]

  I think this is important as Easter is soon.
The shadow of things to come.
Thursday was a high Day sabbath of the passover.

To get three days & nights in the tomb JESUS had to be on the cross on Wednesday at sunset which then was Thursday night.
JESUS then rose from the dead at sunset the end of SABBATH at the start of the first day of the week.
Think hard about this because if it was Easter as claimed you are short of one night in the tomb.

I really am serious that this should get plenty of answers.

[djconklin]

>To get three days & nights in the tomb JESUS had to be on the cross on Wednesday at sunset which then was Thursday night.


In Jewish thought a part of an 'onah (day) is an 'onah.  So, if we use the hour as the minimum, then Jesus only had to be in the tomb 26 hours.  He died on Friday when the last Passover lamb was being slain and He arose on Sunday morning.

[MARTIN]

"In Jewish thought a part of an 'onah (day) is an 'onah.  So, if we use the hour as the minimum, then Jesus only had to be in the tomb 26 hours.  He died on Friday when the last Passover lamb was being slain and He arose on Sunday morning."
[/quote]

Yes, you are exactly right, it was exactly and precisely according to the type, thank you.

[robert two]

>To get three days & nights in the tomb JESUS had to be on the cross on Wednesday at sunset which then was Thursday night.


In Jewish thought a part of an 'onah (day) is an 'onah.  So, if we use the hour as the minimum, then Jesus only had to be in the tomb 26 hours.  He died on Friday when the last Passover lamb was being slain and He arose on Sunday morning.

Three days and three nights has to be more than 26 hours.
If JESUS died on FRIDAY. in the day time then . we have Sabbath night ans day. The sunday night and part of a day.
Count up.TWO nights and three days.
So Jesus must died on what we call Thursday night.

[djconklin]

>Three days and three nights has to be more than 26 hours.

As I noted: "In Jewish thought a part of an 'onah (day) is an 'onah."

[robert two]

>To get three days & nights in the tomb JESUS had to be on the cross on Wednesday at sunset which then was Thursday night.


In Jewish thought a part of an 'onah (day) is an 'onah.  So, if we use the hour as the minimum, then Jesus only had to be in the tomb 26 hours.  He died on Friday when the last Passover lamb was being slain and He arose on Sunday morning.

Going on the BIBLE texts giving the day of the week this does not look like the answer though.
From the time he was sentence to death till he rose is 3 nights and 3 days.

[djconklin]

You appear to be getting hung up on the number three.

When Christ said that there were 12 hours in a day , do you take that literally?

You also have the problem with the day Christ was crucified being called a "high sabbath."

[robert two]

You appear to be getting hung up on the number three.

When Christ said that there were 12 hours in a day , do you take that literally?

You also have the problem with the day Christ was crucified being called a "high sabbath."

Strangely you are blaming me for things in the BIBLE.
I never wrote the BIBLE.
THREE well in the BIBLE Jesus says three days and three nights and that is compared to JOHNAH in the belly of the FISH.
So THREE must mean something ?

Then 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of darkness seems to be OKAY from GENESIS.

The there were PASSOVER HIGH days they were regarded as sabbaths. That is from the BIBLE too.
That does not solved the issue of one night short. But id we take from when he was sentenced to death then that is the correct days and nights.

But I am asking if that can be seen as right.
Not as a HUNGUP though.

[djconklin]

>Strangely you are blaming me for things in the BIBLE.

I didn't blame you for anything.  Why lie about me?

[robert two]

>Strangely you are blaming me for things in the BIBLE.

I didn't blame you for anything.  Why lie about me?

So you did not say I had a HANGUP it was someone else that posted that ?

Well sorry if that is the case.

[djconklin]

The "hangup" in on the number three.  I'm obviously not blaming you for something that is in the Bible.

We're done.

[robert two]

The "hangup" in on the number three.  I'm obviously not blaming you for something that is in the Bible.

We're done.

When JESUS was on the cross it became dark as night.
Could we count that as NIGHT ?

[MARTIN]

THREE well in the BIBLE Jesus says three days and three nights and that is compared to JOHNAH in the belly of the FISH.
So THREE must mean something ?

Then 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of darkness seems to be OKAY from GENESIS.

The there were PASSOVER HIGH days they were regarded as sabbaths. That is from the BIBLE too.
That does not solved the issue of one night short. But id we take from when he was sentenced to death then that is the correct days and nights.

But I am asking if that can be seen as right.
Not as a HUNGUP though.
[/quote]


Robert Two-

Yes, three does mean something, or the Messiah would not have given it as a sign.  But let's take a closer look at just what the Messiah actually said.  He said, "As Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly,..." Matthew 12: 40 KJV

Jonas was not dead for three days and three nights--He was a captive and a prisoner for three days and three nights.  "So must the Son of Man be...." Matthew 12:40

The Messiah was taken captive on what we consider as Thursday night, a few hours after sunset.  His sentencing was quite some hours later, so it didn't really have anything to do with His sentencing.

Therefore, He was a captive prisoner exactly like Jonas for three days and three nights.

The post by Mr. Conklin explains how the Hebrews consider time.  If it involved any portion of a day, it was considered one day.

I hope this explains it.

There was only one "high Sabbath" (John 19:31) during the 8 days of Passover (these 8 days would include the Passover and the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread), and this "high Sabbath" occurred on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread in the year the Messiah was crucified which was the fifteenth day of the first month.  The next "shadow Sabbath" did not occur until the day after the 7th day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.  This is the way the feasts were scheduled in Leviticus 23 and this is how they were fulfilled in 31 C.E.

[robert two]

 OKAY.
Then what does this mean?

In the heart of the earth.

As JONAH was not dead in his 3 days & 3 nights.

If I take from the time JESUS was sentenced till he rose from the dead.
The right time.

What are your thoughts on this.?

[MARTIN]

OKAY.
Then what does this mean?

In the heart of the earth.

As JONAH was not dead in his 3 days & 3 nights.

If I take from the time JESUS was sentenced till he rose from the dead.
The right time.

What are your thoughts on this.?

Here is some Bible evidence that you might consider.

In the parable that the Messiah gave in Matthew 13 about the Sower and the Seed, He tells about the Son of Man sowing the good seed in the earth.  Later, when He interpreted this parable, He made the statement,

"...then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. Matthew 13:19.

Notice the words, "in his heart", even though the  actual parable relates the action of sowing seeds in the earth.  Thus the Messiah made the connection between the earth and it being the heart of man.

"The heart of the earth" then might be taken to show Him being subject to the evil will of man versus being free to minister God's love to others. 

When before Pilate, the Messiah was asked certain questions, He gave no response.  Finally, Pilate stated,

"Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?" Matthew 19:10. 

The Messiah responded,

"Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above:" Matthew 19:11

As part of God's plan to save man, God allowed the Messiah to be a captive of man's sinful will for three days and three nights, from what we term as, Thursday night when He was taken prisoner, until the dawn of Sunday when He was resurrected.

[robert two]

 It appears you have the answers I was looking for.
Thankyou for you time.
So in the control of this earth for three days.
Seems a quick fix.

[MARTIN]

It appears you have the answers I was looking for.
Thankyou for you time.
So in the control of this earth for three days.
Seems a quick fix.

It can be difficult sometimes to understand the evidence in such a way that it harmonizes with all the other evidence.  Through the aid of the Holy Spirit, our understanding can be opened.

[JOHNN]

FROM ONE NEW MOON TO ANOTHER AND FROM ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER

THE NEW MOON AND ITS CONNECTION TO THE LUNAR (SHADOW) SABBATHS
THE LUNAR (SHADOW) SABBATHS AND THEIR CONNECTION TO THE HOLY 7TH-DAY SABBATH

Isaiah 66:22, 23 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.  And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

[MARTIN]

DAYS SPECIFIED AS SABBATHS IN THE FALL FEASTS
USING A LITERAL TRANSLATION OF THE BIBLE LIKE THE  KJV.

(1)   Feast of Trumpets Leviticus 23:24                                A  SHADOWY  SABBATH

(2)   Day of Atonement  Leviticus 23:27                                 A  SHADOWY  SABBATH

(3)   1st day of Feast of Tabernacles Leviticus 23:34             A  SHADOWY  SABBATH

(4)   8th day of Feast of Tabernacles Leviticus 23:36            A  SHADOWY  SABBATH
       


"...In the seventh month, in the first [day] of the month, shall ye have a Sabbath,

[djconklin]

Where'd you get the term "shadowy sabbath"?  Its not found in the Bible.

Did you look at http://www.666man.net/Colossians_2_16-17_By_David_Conklin/colintro.html; I didn't cover exactly what you are talking about, but it is necessary to see if what you are thinking matches.

[MARTIN]

Where'd you get the term "shadowy sabbath"?  Its not found in the Bible.

Did you look at http://www.666man.net/Colossians_2_16-17_By_David_Conklin/colintro.html; I didn't cover exactly what you are talking about, but it is necessary to see if what you are thinking matches.

The words of the verse in Colossians 2:16, 17 are:

"...the sabbath [days]: Which are a shadow..." O.K. so these Sabbaths are defined as:

"shadow Sabbaths"--or--"Sabbath which are a shadow".   The terms here are the same.

Some use the term "ceremonial Sabbaths", which is not found in the Bible or in the Spirit of Prophecy.  So that term is more difficult to connect with the terms the Bible uses.

Yes, I did look at the link you gave.  But one could not compare the Messiah's interpretation of the "shadow Sabbaths" with all the conjectures of uninspired human philosophy.  There would be absolutely no comparison whatsoever.

[Michael G]

SABBATHS PLURAL are special days of rest with Festivals pointing to Christ sacrifice and work fulfilled at the cross, resurrection and ascension....

SABBATHS  DAYS are pointing toward Christ's passing Character  and should be specified by the words "DAYS or SABBATHS