When do I move on?

[mind boggled]

  I love my commitment phobic so called fiancee that tells me he wants to marry me ....but cant give me my engagement ring & formally ask me yet.....I feel so uncomfortable talking about the future he looks scared a lot or clams up.......I've took off my pre-engagement ring last weekend & he talked me into putting it back on....he says if he gives me my engagement ring then hes afraid he might back out of marriage....but he has no doubts about us.....he has a lot of excuses.....he said he had 2 failed marriages....he has a fear....he is going to a pre marital counselor with me at church,but when I think he's making progress then he goes back the other way...this is hard...it hurts me.....he knows it does....I told him I was afraid to but my love for him & living without him is more powerful than my being afraid .....& that God gives us a spirit of faith not fear.......I'm on a constant rollercoaster of emotions...I'm happy....then sad when I get excited about future & he clams up...I feel like he is having doubts...he says he isnt....but if he isnt then why cant he give me the ring? Hes afraid if he gives me the ring then a date will have to be set....but it would tell me hes made up his mind....& I told him we could set a date to set a date......I would have given up but he is going to the counselor with me.......it seemed to be doing good then he is acting strange again....I know God dont want me to be emotionally upset as much as I am.....I'm a positive person & I feel like I'm constantly trying to convince him how right things will be....but sometimes it gets to me...I get hurt....have trouble sleeping....feel insecure....I don't feel special like someone should feel by the person that claims to love them...I want to be happy about a house we could have together....he says he dreads having to do all that moving stuff....I want to have fun looking at houses he brings me down ....everything that has to do with our future he is negative about. i'm.happythen sad ...over & over......he doesnt want me to leave....I ask myself will it hurt more to call it quits or to stay & wait it out ...but for how long? when we fell in love we said a year to get married its a week or so from that...& at least I want my engagement ring...should I give him an altimatum? or just walk when a year comes? or not say anything till the counceling is over? I need more Christian advice....thanks & God bless! mind boggled

[Lenee925]

Sorry I was a little hard to read through all the punctuation. Anyway I don't think you will like my answer but I will give it in love. My BF just broke up with me after 5 1/2 years and a promise ring. I'm heartbroken but I'm glad he did it. If a man wants to marry you, he will. There is no need to allow yourself to be tortured emotionally by a double-minded person. To be frank, he isn't ready. No amount of loving, praying or begging can change that unless it's in his heart. We can pray for God to speak to him but we have to be careful of 'soulish' prayers. I feel that men respond better to action rather than words. Don't give him an ultimatum unless you can back it up and follow through with it. I think it would be worth it to suggest that you two take 'some time apart' to figure out what he really wants to do without playing with your emotions or being negative. God may be trying to show you something but your emotional love for him is in the way. We have to guard our hearts and be very careful of amorous love. We need to have agape love for people and love them they way God does. I know this is hard but I understand. Sometimes you have to back off and let a man decide what he wants to do. When he does you may not like the outcome, but at least you're not wasting your time and can move on to who God really promised you in the first place. I hope this helps dear

[chosenone]

Lenee's post has good advice.
There is no such thing as a pre engagement ring. It means nothing. I echo the advise to have some time apart. This would help him to see what it is he really wants in life and would enable you to listen to God about whether he is the man that God wants for you. Set a time,  maybe 3 months or so and agree to meet after that time to talk and during that time pray hard for God to make it clear.
Do you know why his previous two marriages failed? Has he dealt with the issues that caused his divorces.?It could be that God doesn't want him to marry again,and you have to remember that divorce rates in 3rd marriages are very high, apparently about 73% which means that only one in four third marriages will last, and with this bad start you have to wonder.about this one(even if he did turn up at the church)

From what you said it doesn't sound at all hopeful,and I can understand how hard this is for you. Its like he wants to keep for himself,  but isn't willing to commit.He isnt wanting you to meet anyone else, but doesnt want to marry you himself.  That isn't fair on you. Not being able to even talk about your future together isn't fair.   If he has committment phobia as you have suggested in previous posts he wouldnt have been married twice before.

You said that you are both about 50, so I have to wonder if he will ever change now. I really think seperation is the only way forward for you to find out if he is who God wants for you. I met my second husband when we were in our late 40's, If he hadnt been  prepared to marry me, I am not sure I would have stuck around for too long. I certainly wouldnt have taken him to counselling to make him committ.
You also mentioned before that you are a happy person but he isnt. That is another red flag, there are lots of red flag here,and with 3 failed marriages between you, you cannot ignore them.
As you only see him at weekends, then have that time apart, with no contact at all, Give God a chance to speak to you away from this situation. You cant force him to committ as then he may agree, and later cancel the wedding at the last mimute.If after this time apart nothing has changed then I would say move on.

[comfy]

I am not saying this applies to you, but we need to be moral before marriage. If we aren't the wrong spirit of this, can mess us up. I know from experience, too. And I'd say be prayerful and careful about how we have physical involvement that isn't obviously immoral (1 & 2 Corinthians 6:12); this can be using and not really affection.

In your case, it seems like your relating is not secure. So, your seeming to be affectionate together might not be secure; and so it would be better to stay out of that until and if you become secure, together, *if* you do ever get together with assurance.

My personal take is that I have had relationships on the Net, and one lady was insisting I needed to go visit her so we could communicate more reliably and truly get to know each other. But I got that, with God giving us perception and discernment, we can truly share, even in one another's absence. Love is by faith and not by sight. We can have full love sharing with Jesus our Groom > "whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory," (1 Peter 1:8) So, in God's love, we can have all the best that we have with Jesus, without seeing each other; without needing to be married, any of us now can have the very best of all that God's love has for people who are married.

And it came to me, that if I went to see her, however we were relating on the Internet and phone would become even more intense; so I could tell, by our relating with little, on the Net, how we would be with much, together. Jesus does say, "'He who is faithful in what is least is faithful also in much; and he who is unjust in what is least is unjust also in much.'" (Luke 16:10) In our case, that would mean more misunderstanding, her being hurt, and her wishing and longing for me (when I full well knew I was n-o-t such a great person, and told her so that I was not a person for her to put so many emotional eggs into one basket with me).

So, I'm offering, that however he is, now, he would be so much more in marriage, with so much more involvement to bring out how he is deeply insecure. He has not changed, because his deep character is his *dictator* of what he does. So, if you are just pushing him, by means of counseling and ultimatums and cutting him off the make the point, this might have him make a stretch to make a commitment, maybe, but it can be like he is stretching against a giant invisible elastic band that can snap him back, later; so he needs however God changes his character.

But if God changes him to become a deeply secure person, you do not know what God then will have him doing; God will not make him secure to do what God does not want. So, if God changes him, you will need to be open for what God will have him assured to do once he becomes a secure person in love.

I would not put so many eggs into one basket, emotionally, with him, but get more into sharing with different really loving Christian brothers and sisters. There are Jesus Family people who are more real in love and goodness and caring, than you and he are; so I would think if there are people who are more like Jesus, than you are, that you would appreciate these more mature Christians more than you would want to share with each other

I have seen how seniors in Jesus can be the most sweetly beautiful ladies, so more than any green teen beauty queen who is stressed and foolish and immature. And if you find Jesus to be the most attractive and beautifully wonderful, I would think you would want to share with our senior men who have matured to be like Jesus more than the ones our own age can be sound and good for us, in God's love. So, I'm "curious" why so many of us are so tied up with only someone who is more like ourselves; this can be a sort of self-love. We can't learn how to really love, just by hanging with ones who are the way we want and make us feel what we like.

So, we thank You, LORD, for this, how You can have us learning how to love, by sharing with the various Christian brothers and sisters You have for us, to feed us with their example of how to be in love.

[mind boggled]

  I want to thank all of the wonderful responses I got to my  question from my loving brothers & sisters in Christ! Everything that was written helped me look at things differently,& I totally agree with the doublemindedness...I never thought of that ...but its true hes saying one thing but cant follow with actions...I get it! Also I have a time in my head when I will mention the seperating for a time...so he can let God talk to him & I can meditate on the situation also....If he cant make a commitment by this time...I have no choice because things arent changing...he has me where he wants me....waiting..& enduring the rollercoaster of emotions associated with his indesisiveness...& I know this may mean there may never be a "us" again  but its better than leting him hurt me emotionally with his indecisive actions....for who knows how long...& this isnt treating my body like God wants me to.....It is just so hard to make this decision...but God has given me peace about it so I know its the right thing to do.....God Bless you all for taking the time to help me...I will keep you update.....luv ,your sister in Christ...mind boggled

[Lenee925]

I will be praying for you. Like I mentioned before, my SO was talking marriage with tears in his eyes saying how much he would miss me if I wasn't sharing his life with him, then dumped me Saturday because I refused to shack up with him. He was wavering back and forth between marriage for a while and I would be so sweet and nice and it didn't help change his mind. I'm so glad he dumped me. It's only been like 4 days now and God is giving me so much grace to get over this man and never EVER accept him back when he finally gets a clue. NEXT!

[chosenone]

Mind boggles

its so good when what you feel God is saying to you is confirmed by others isnt it, and I think that seperation thing is the way forward. It will enable you to see the way forward away from the emotional rollercoaster.
I pray that this will make it clear to you.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I think the answer depends on your age (& his).

[Lenee925]

Oh I forgot something, hopefully it will help. I started prayed that if my now ex-boyfriend was not my husband; God would remove him from my life in the context of that relationship. I prayed that prayer for a year and actually was specific in asking God that He would have my ex end it because I wasn't able to give up on the hope of the relationship. God is so good to me that he had him break up with me, and when he did it; it was final. I know it's weird but I put myself in this situation, God did not. Looking back at it, I probably didn't trust the Lord enough to fulfill the promise he gave me in giving me the man of His choosing. Instead I took in a stray and loved him the best I could. In the end it wasn't enough; it never is. I feel that women have to be careful in 'taking in strays'. God has the man that is meant for us and anything other than that is a distraction leading to heartbreak.

Don't believe the negative report of the enemy but believe your Father has a plan for you and a promise for you that He wants to fulfill.