Sex before marriage, what effect does it have on a persons relationship?

[chosenone]

I have been pondering this question.
I know two people, one, my ex husbands sister, and another a close male friend of my husband and I, who are Christians but who are also having sex with their partners and arent married.
Now we have said to them that God clearly tells us not to have sex unless we are married, one cant see anything worng with lving with her non Christian boyfriend(she is 53,and he refuses to marry her), and the other knows it is wrong but does it anyway(he is 42).

I am wondering what you guys think is the effect that this sin has on the relationship and  the people involved? Does it stop Gods blessings? If the friend in my story marries(which they are intending to do sometime) will the marriage be affected by starting in sin? 
Has anyone had experience of this?Is this sin as serious as adultery?

Thanks Guys. I am a thinker and often ponder things like this.

[JohnDB]

Chosenone said:
Now we have said to them that God clearly tells us not to have sex unless we are married, one cant see anything worng with lving with her non Christian boyfriend(she is 53,and he refuses to marry her), and the other knows it is wrong but does it anyway(he is 42).

Obviously your handling of the situation is going to leave much to be desired.

Are you sure you understand what love is or telling someone the truth in love is about?
So far, with what you have explained, this is exactly the way Jesus said not to go about it.

But carry on if you feel you must.

[zoonance]

sin is sin.  encouraging spiritual death can't be good.  Course, having sex with everyone but the person you expect to marry clearly has an effect on a person's relationship but it is harder to see how premarital sex affects a relationship IF it is really the beginning of a 50 year monogamous one.  You pretty much are left with trusting God and His Word that sin is sin and no amount of "determing the effects" matter because He isn't blessing it.

[chosenone]

Chosenone said:
Now we have said to them that God clearly tells us not to have sex unless we are married, one cant see anything worng with lving with her non Christian boyfriend(she is 53,and he refuses to marry her), and the other knows it is wrong but does it anyway(he is 42).

Obviously your handling of the situation is going to leave much to be desired.

Are you sure you understand what love is or telling someone the truth in love is about?
So far, with what you have explained, this is exactly the way Jesus said not to go about it.

But carry on if you feel you must.

John you have no idea how we said what we did and the relationship that we have with these people, so please dont judge us. The close friend is like a brother to us and we have known him a long time, have helped him out and supported him many times and we have a brilliant relationship with him. He knows without us having to say anything that this is worng, but he knows how we feel and that he isnt doing the right thing. We dont preach, but we do say that God cant bless his relationship. Honest words to someone that we love and care about. I have known my sister in law for 35 years, we have a good relationship where we can be honest . Do you suggest that we let them think that God wont care if they have sex or not and that it wont make any difference to his future? Now THAT would be unloving.

[chosenone]

sin is sin.  encouraging spiritual death can't be good.  Course, having sex with everyone but the person you expect to marry clearly has an effect on a person's relationship but it is harder to see how premarital sex affects a relationship IF it is really the beginning of a 50 year monogamous one.  You pretty much are left with trusting God and His Word that sin is sin and no amount of "determing the effects" matter because He isn't blessing it.

I guess that neither couple can guarantee that they will stay together especially as neither are married.Our friend has only been with this lady for 3  months. He says they will marry later on. I agree that God cant bless it. How can He? if I was committing adultery on my husband He wouldnt bless me either, and I wouldnt expect him to.

[JohnDB]

Chosenone said:
Now we have said to them that God clearly tells us not to have sex unless we are married, one cant see anything worng with lving with her non Christian boyfriend(she is 53,and he refuses to marry her), and the other knows it is wrong but does it anyway(he is 42).

Obviously your handling of the situation is going to leave much to be desired.

Are you sure you understand what love is or telling someone the truth in love is about?
So far, with what you have explained, this is exactly the way Jesus said not to go about it.

But carry on if you feel you must.

John you have no idea how we said what we did and the relationship that we have with these people, so please dont judge us. The close friend is like a brother to us and we have known him a long time, have helped him out and supported him many times and we have a brilliant relationship with him. He knows without us having to say anything that this is worng, but he knows how we feel and that he isnt doing the right thing.We dont preach, but we do say that God cant bless his relationship. Honest worrds to someone that we love and care about.  Do you suggest that we let him think that God wont care if he has sex or not and that it wont make any difference to his future? Now THAT would be unloving.

again...you are judging me.

You simply don't understand at all what point that it is that I am trying to make here.

But the truth remains...
your friends seem to have the major points of the faith better than you do for some reason.

We all are growing...all moving forward towards a specific goal...some just move faster and more directly towards that than others do...and your friends have outpaced you at the moment in this area.

Sokay...we like ya anyway.

[JMT]

But the truth remains...
your friends seem to have the major points of the faith better than you do for some reason.

We all are growing...all moving forward towards a specific goal...some just move faster and more directly towards that than others do...and your friends have outpaced you at the moment in this area.

I am sorry for butting in...

Can you explain what you mean by the above statement?  Thank you. 

[walker starr]

   Responding to the thread title: It depends entirely upon the individuals who
   engage in such practices.  It could be wrong to do so or it could be very
   beautiful and right and wonderful.

[Rachel]

It's not something I feel comfortable thinking about.  I don't feel it's my place to decide what is right or wrong for someone else.  God is not bound by rules and He has His plan for each of us.  I say I would let it be and not let that pondering take time away from my Lord.*


*saying that has given me something to consider about my own behavior today. 

[chosenone]

But the truth remains...
your friends seem to have the major points of the faith better than you do for some reason.

We all are growing...all moving forward towards a specific goal...some just move faster and more directly towards that than others do...and your friends have outpaced you at the moment in this area.

I am sorry for butting in...

Can you explain what you mean by the above statement?  Thank you. 

Jmt I am the OP and I have no idea either.I cant work this out. He seems to be seeing things here that I have never written or said.

[chosenone]

   Responding to the thread title: It depends entirely upon the individuals who
   engage in such practices.  It could be wrong to do so or it could be very
   beautiful and right and wonderful.

Do you believe that God tells us to wait till marriage before we have sex?

[chosenone]

It's not something I feel comfortable thinking about.  I don't feel it's my place to decide what is right or wrong for someone else.  God is not bound by rules and He has His plan for each of us.  I say I would let it be and not let that pondering take time away from my Lord.*


*saying that has given me something to consider about my own behavior today. 

So if I was committing adultery, which God also forbids, then  no other Christian should point out that I am sinning and that my faith is at stake? Not even a close friend or relative who loves me? Boy I hope that someone would love me enough to tell me. 

[chosenone]

Chosenone said:
Now we have said to them that God clearly tells us not to have sex unless we are married, one cant see anything worng with lving with her non Christian boyfriend(she is 53,and he refuses to marry her), and the other knows it is wrong but does it anyway(he is 42).

Obviously your handling of the situation is going to leave much to be desired.

Are you sure you understand what love is or telling someone the truth in love is about?
So far, with what you have explained, this is exactly the way Jesus said not to go about it.

But carry on if you feel you must.

John you have no idea how we said what we did and the relationship that we have with these people, so please dont judge us. The close friend is like a brother to us and we have known him a long time, have helped him out and supported him many times and we have a brilliant relationship with him. He knows without us having to say anything that this is worng, but he knows how we feel and that he isnt doing the right thing.We dont preach, but we do say that God cant bless his relationship. Honest worrds to someone that we love and care about.  Do you suggest that we let him think that God wont care if he has sex or not and that it wont make any difference to his future? Now THAT would be unloving.

again...you are judging me.

You simply don't understand at all what point that it is that I am trying to make here.

But the truth remains...
your friends seem to have the major points of the faith better than you do for some reason.

We all are growing...all moving forward towards a specific goal...some just move faster and more directly towards that than others do...and your friends have outpaced you at the moment in this area.

Sokay...we like ya anyway.

can you explian how you know what faith they have when you know nothing about them except that they are committing sexual immorality? Can you also explian why pointing something so vitally important out to a close friend or relative is worng when their future and faith is at stake? Is it better that they are left to reap the results of what they are doing, going against what God tells them? Just to finish, they have both been Christians for many many years.

[JohnDB]

But the truth remains...
your friends seem to have the major points of the faith better than you do for some reason.

We all are growing...all moving forward towards a specific goal...some just move faster and more directly towards that than others do...and your friends have outpaced you at the moment in this area.

I am sorry for butting in...

Can you explain what you mean by the above statement?  Thank you. 

certainly...
I would be extremely happy to.

The main points of the faith of which I hold are all about grace, mercy, forgiveness, longsuffering. All of these are elements of Love...agape love.

finger pointing out areas of sin in someone's life is the worst thing a "Christian" can do.  Jesus, Peter, Matthew, Luke, John, Paul, Jude, James, and Barnabus (writer of Hebrews) all say that this behavior isn't to be tolerated whatsoever.

Jesus used the worst foul language of that day and time at the Pharisees because of this behavior.

We set aside sins...giving them up to God because of the goodness that we personally perceive about God...not because of any rule of man that he can twist out of scripture. God doesn't demand them of us...we have to give them with a glad heart and willing spirit. NOT BY BROWBEATING. even if the browbeating isn't done with words.

God writes the laws on our hearts...no man knows what is written on anyone's heart except his own. God and our individual selves know what is written there. 

There is a fine, fluid line of law, righteous behavior, and love.

Far be it from me to offer advice and council to someone who never asked or wanted it to begin with about a sin such as what Chosenone is discussing.

To me, and I don't think I am alone, it is tantamount to straining a gnat and swollowing a camel.

All a matter of a righteous attitude and heart.
I will admit though that when it comes to those who seem to wish to promote self righteousness I am a bit forward...but then again so was my Teacher. 

[Thankfulldad]

It's not something I feel comfortable thinking about.  I don't feel it's my place to decide what is right or wrong for someone else.  God is not bound by rules and He has His plan for each of us.  I say I would let it be and not let that pondering take time away from my Lord.*


*saying that has given me something to consider about my own behavior today. 

So if I was committing adultery, which God also forbids, then  no other Christian should point out that I am sinning and that my faith is at stake? Not even a close friend or relative who loves me? Boy I hope that someone would love me enough to tell me. 

We will live with the consequences of our sins...

Until we have Jesus in our hearts...and love as He loves us; we will look to others to fill our needs.  Sex is a big need for most (me too!)...regardless, if we are followers of Jesus, we will listen to what He says; and trust in Him.  His blessing will far exceed the temporary high that sex gives......in the end though, we are still hungry for unconditional love; that only Jesus can give. 

We are forgiven...but, are we growing and living in peace?  Are we resting in His love, or our lust?  Our hope is not in sex or the person we are having sex with...our hope must be found in Jesus; He is our husband...the only One that can fullfill our heart.

[Ben]

I am quite shocked by most of the above responses from most and especially JohnDB.  It is obvious the devil has wormed his way into his "modern" thinking.  What a crock of baloney he is spouting.  Jesus "pointed the finger" at the woman caught in the act of adultery in John 8 (of course this is in the scriptures and these old fairy tales are too old and just plain silly for some "modern thinkers amoung us) but assuming you believe in the scriptures what did He say to her?  Please go on in your adulterous relationship because one shouldn't point fingers at another's sin, right?  NO. He said "Go now and leave your life of sin." My oh my was He ever judgmental.  

What did St. Paul do when he learned about a man sleeping with his father's wife as written about in 1 Cor 5:1, "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles--that a man has his father's wife!"  Did he tell the Corinthians to allow the man to continue because "we are all sinners and we shouldn't judge one another?"  No he told them to "hand the man over to Satan" (verse 5.)

Sin is sin and God will judge.  We can sweeten it and call it "mistakes" or "modern thought" but the truth is it is sin, filthy dirty sexual sin,  the same sin St. Paul warned us about in 1 Cor 6:18 when he said, "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body."  (I know I'm quoting that from same old dusty book that is so old fashioned and so out of date with you modern thinkers, but since we are all sinners and since we cannot judge one another you cannot judge me for quoting from it.

Ben

[JohnDB]

can you explian how you know what faith they have when you know nothing about them except that they are committing sexual immorality? Can you also explian why pointing something so vitally important out to a close friend or relative is worng when their future and faith is at stake? Is it better that they are left to reap the results of what they are doing, going against what God tells them? Just to finish, they have both been Christians for many many years.

because they seem to forgive your behavior of condemning them & love you anyway...

Their humility and love is an example of what it is that we are to try to attain...

These are the Majors and not the minors.

But...since so many seem to believe otherwise.

The line is this in the scripture that was just posted.

... such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles

In other words this behavior is something that everyone understood to be wrong and immoral. As such it was besmirching the name of Christ. Blaspheming/taking the Lord's name in vain.

I am not saying that we have a license to sin...far from it. But that sanctification is a process and not an end result. How fast someone is sanctified is not my or anyone else's call...only God. And I would not even presume to touch anything that belongs to God...at all.

[Thankfulldad]

Sin is sin and God will judge.  We can sweeten it and call it "mistakes" or "modern thought" but the truth is it is sin, filthy dirty sexual sin,  the same sin St. Paul warned us about in 1 Cor 6:18 when he said, "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body."  (I know I'm quoting that from same old dusty book that is so old fashioned and so out of date with you modern thinkers, but since we are all sinners and since we cannot judge one another you cannot judge me for quoting from it.

Ben

Hi Ben,

Man will always fail in one way or the other.  It might be sex outside of marriage...it might be anger or hate...it might be lust of the heart...it might be following rules for salvatioin...it might be by thinking our human efforts are enough to please God.  All these are sins...and we will pay the consequences for them.

Until we abandon our thinking, our will, our ways...and give Jesus control of our life; we will fail.  It is easy to point the finger and judge the obvious sins of others...and miss our own sins of the heart (the heart is wicked and deceitful).  The more we give up...the more God takes control, and the less we will sin.  Give the Spirit of God freedom to rule in our life, and be filled and overflowing with His love...and sin fades away...along with our human desires, efforts, failures and pride.

[HeavensTears]

Hi Chosenone.

Always remember 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 13, 18-20, 7:1-9, and especially 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 and Hebrews 13:4.

I myself was once involved in a relationship similar to what your OP said. I was 31 and he was 41. He was recently divorced and I have never been married. To make a long story short, we both were wrong in indulging in sexual immorality and we knew it. No matter how often we fought about stuff and pointed the finger at one another, we were wrong. The Holy Spirit convicted me very strongly and I foolishly ignored Him because I was too caught up in wanting to please my boyfriend and not upset him. I was what you call "stuck on stupid".  

Four months later, I ended the relationship because I was so sick of all the drama. Because I shared my body with this man, it was very hard on me emotionally and I'm sure it was for him, too. But as hard as that was back then, it pales in comparison to the folly of blatently disobeying God. Let me tell you that indulging in the fleeting pleasures of sin is not worth trampling on the blood of Christ and grieving the Holy Spirit of grace AND being under the judgement of God (Hebrews 10:26-31). The reason I pointed out those particular scriptures is because I knew better but choose not to do better.

In conclusion, if a man and a woman are in love but neither one of them is willing to marry each other (for whatever reason), then neither do they have any entitlement, right, nor authority over each other's bodies sexually. No ring, no willingness of a life long committment to one another til death do you part, then no sex. Period. End of discussion. It's just like that song that Beyonce sings: "if you like it and you love it, put a ring on it." My goodness, if a secular song is about doing right, how much more so should christians do what is right?  

If you love your boyfriend/girlfriend, do the right thing and honor each other by getting married. In doing the right thing, more importantly, God is honored and glorified.

[HeavensTears]

One more thing. To me, its pretty insulting to marry just to legitamize having sex with one another. 


If you want to marry, make sure you have pure motives.

[JMT]

Sigh...going out on a limb here.

I had someone point the finger at me over this issue *years* ago.  I am *so* glad they did!  It was the wake up call that I needed.  Didn't change my behavior over night and I wasn't hounded by the one who told me to stop. She just pulled me aside once and said, I know what you are doing and it is breaking God's heart! STOP!

Everyday, her words haunted me until I finally gave in to the Holy Spirit and repented.  My walk increased amazingly!  I was on the road to recovery from shame and guilt and becoming a truly healthy individual.

She came at me not with condemnation, but the confession that she had walked the same way and learned that it wasn't worth it.  It was a comfort, a blessing and I know God was honored by her obedience to Him for speaking up to me.  One talk was all it took.

I have a friend whose sister was in the same boat.  Her mother plead with her to stop living the way they were, they didn't.  She then told them she would be praying.  The man in the relationship was not a believer at the time. FINALLY a few years later, he turned to the daughter and said "let's get married!  Your mother's prayers are too much for me !" LOL!  It had been years since a word was uttered on the subject.

I say speak if God puts it on your heart, then drop it and let God do with it what He will! 

[walker starr]

   Responding to the thread title: It depends entirely upon the individuals who
   engage in such practices.  It could be wrong to do so or it could be very
   beautiful and right and wonderful.

Do you believe that God tells us to wait till marriage before we have sex?

      I responded to the question posed by the thread title.  My beliefs would
      be the subject of another thread.   GOD Bless.

[chosenone]

Thanks for your answers. Some of them have been really useful. I do feel that for us today this sin has lost its seriousness. I guess we are all affected by the world around us, and because in the world it is the rare exception not to have sex outside marriage, it has affected the church also. It seems to be getting quiet rare now for a Christian couple to wait till marriage and that is sad.  As far as I can see about Jesus He loved people enough to want them to do the right thing. He loved them enough to tell the the truth because of His compassion for them.

I hope and pray that someone who loves me will speak to me if I am way off track in my lifestyle, and point me to what God says. The thing is that God says these things for a reason doesnt He, and that is because he knows the effect that they will have on us if we dont keep to His boundaries.I desperately want those I love to receive all that God has for them, and I kNOW that is they carry on living this way, they will suffer the consequenses, and that is sad. Thank God there is forgiveness when we slip up, but for those who have known Him for years and who still wont listen, what then?

My sister in law did leave her guy friend a while ago because he refused to marry her,but she hated living alone so she went back.
He still wont marry her, and he is still an unbeliever. I suggested that she speak to her pastor and get his advice. She has lived with this man for way over 4 years and only once have I mentioned it to her, and now it is her decision as to whether to listen to God or not. In fact when I met my now husband 5 years ago and told her I was getting married, she suggested that we needed to live together first to make sure that we were compatable and right for each other. All I said then was that we couldnt do that and said nothing more.
It was only when she left him that I spoke to her about it,and said that I knew that was going to happen sooner or later.When she went back and claimed that God was leading her to do that, I gently said that because they werent married and he was an unbeliever, God would never want her to go back to living with him.
She didnt take any offence and now it is her conscience that needs to work. I have done all that I can except pray.

[th1bill]

I have been pondering this question.
I know two people, one, my ex husbands sister, and another a close male friend of my husband and I, who are Christians but who are also having sex with their partners and arent married.
Now we have said to them that God clearly tells us not to have sex unless we are married, one cant see anything worng with lving with her non Christian boyfriend(she is 53,and he refuses to marry her), and the other knows it is wrong but does it anyway(he is 42).

I am wondering what you guys think is the effect that this sin has on the relationship and  the people involved? Does it stop Gods blessings? If the friend in my story marries(which they are intending to do sometime) will the marriage be affected by starting in sin? 
Has anyone had experience of this?Is this sin as serious as adultery?

Thanks Guys. I am a thinker and often ponder things like this.

This involves a biblical teaching that is avoided like the plague.   When we study the subject in the Old Testament we find that marriage, God's way, does not involve a certificate from the state. 
That certificate represents a state tax on marriage and nothing more.  When  Adam coupled, had sex, with Eve they were married.  When Issac went in to Rebecka and coupled with her they were married.  The same is true with Jacob/Israel and both of his wives.  When a man and a woman lay down together, couple, they are married in the eyes of God.  The fact that they, undoubtedly, refuse to recognize this truth places them in the position of sin and any sin, unrepented, is worthy of eternal death.

[zoonance]

so intercourse is marriage?  At least Clinton didn't marry Lewinski.... or did he? 

[tryinghard]

There seems to be two topics going on. I will comment on both.

For the main post:
i  can say from personal experience in my unraveling marriage that having premarital sex was the number one/or two worst thing for my marriage. I can see the negative consequences it is/does have and more than one aspect of my marriage. God willing, I will not be getting divorced. But if my husband leaves me, and I ever consider marriage again, this is a sin that is not worth the consequences.

On the second topic about telling them:
I do know that the bible says: In Luke 17 it says "if your brother sins, rebuke him". Now I know what you were saying- you are close to these people and it felt like the right thing to do.
I also kind of understand where the other guy is coming from. I live around/with/have family that are Muslim.  I have heard my youngest family members/ brothers and their friends making fun of their own friends who are boys, who wear "dresses". Their justification is that the religion is false. I said- I know you are little boys, but I do not think ANY Muslims have been won to Christ b/c someone made fun of their religious garments....

So it doesn't quite match up but my point is that sometimes saying something like that doesn't help at all, sometimes the best witness is to follow the word and live by example... yet I can't ignore the above verse.

In hindsight- as embarrassing as it would have been for me, as well as shameful, if a christian sister or brother had found out and approached me about a long time ago.. I think it would have been good for me personally.

[lightshineon]

 What I have observed in college. Couples quit going out on dates, instead, They stay in and have sex. I think a loss of respect, and feelings of quilt kind of take over. females  seem to think more of it usually than males, and fall in love, and many times the female is dumped. If a couple is married after sex, no special wedding night. There is also the constant fear of pregnancy. Just things I remember from girls in the dorms.

[chosenone]

There seems to be two topics going on. I will comment on both.

For the main post:
i  can say from personal experience in my unraveling marriage that having premarital sex was the number one/or two worst thing for my marriage. I can see the negative consequences it is/does have and more than one aspect of my marriage. God willing, I will not be getting divorced. But if my husband leaves me, and I ever consider marriage again, this is a sin that is not worth the consequences.

On the second topic about telling them:
I do know that the bible says: In Luke 17 it says "if your brother sins, rebuke him". Now I know what you were saying- you are close to these people and it felt like the right thing to do.
I also kind of understand where the other guy is coming from. I live around/with/have family that are Muslim.  I have heard my youngest family members/ brothers and their friends making fun of their own friends who are boys, who wear "dresses". Their justification is that the religion is false. I said- I know you are little boys, but I do not think ANY Muslims have been won to Christ b/c someone made fun of their religious garments....

So it doesn't quite match up but my point is that sometimes saying something like that doesn't help at all, sometimes the best witness is to follow the word and live by example... yet I can't ignore the above verse.

In hindsight- as embarrassing as it would have been for me, as well as shameful, if a christian sister or brother had found out and approached me about a long time ago.. I think it would have been good for me personally.

tryingishard  thanks for sharing about the bad effects that having sex before marriage had on your marriage. That was what I was asking for.

Please don't get me wrong, I don't 'rebuke' them.(I am definitely not a 'rebuking' sort of person, I am very gentle and loving with those I love) I gently pointed out that God cant bless a relationship where the couple are having sex. I am close to and love these guys, I care about them and want the best for them. Our friend knows full well that what he is doing is wrong, but I don't think he realises what bad effect it will have on his relationship and any possible  future marriage. His girlfriend put pressure on him to have sex, saying things like "well don't you fancy me then?" It concerns me that she doesn't respect his stand on this, but he thinks she is the one and can do no wrong.

Anyway she often stays the night with him now in his bed and they have sex. When we saw him last week, there were comments about how the horse has 'already bolted' and my husband said why not put the horse back in the stable till you get married.lol. If that is 'rebuking' then so be it. He and my husband are VERY close, like brothers. Its a bit like watching someone drive towards a precipice and doing nothing to stop them. I feel sad as I know that there will be consequenses. They are believers.

I do feel a bit sad that I have been attacked here a bit for loving and caring enough to do this. In fact I am amazed at one or two of the responses that seemed to be totally unrelated to what I was trying to ask, I think I may have pressed a button or two.

[chosenone]

so intercourse is marriage?  At least Clinton didn't marry Lewinski.... or did he? 

  Hmmm I wonder if two men who have sex are then married?

[k-pappy]

so intercourse is marriage?  At least Clinton didn't marry Lewinski.... or did he? 

  Hmmm I wonder if two men who have sex are then married?

ewww...

[chosenone]

so intercourse is marriage?  At least Clinton didn't marry Lewinski.... or did he? 

  Hmmm I wonder if two men who have sex are then married?

ewww...

Yeh I agree, but if a man and a women are married when they have sex (which I dont believe at all by the way), then two men are also married presumably when they have sex?