Is Matt 28:19 , for today ??

[dan p]

  Hi to all and I submit to all that Matt 28:19  is  NOT  for  Gentiles !!

The  CONTEXT  of Matt 10:5 is  the 12 and Jesus commands them where to go !

#1 , Go , not into the way of the  GENTILES /  ETHNOS .

#2 , And  DO NOT  go into any city of the Samaritians enter ye not .

#3 , And verse 6 tells  them ,  BUT , go rather to the House of Israel .

  This CONTEXT  tells us WHO and gives a Timeline , Jesus sent them forth , verse 5 , now .

Then , John 11:50 , shows another use of the Greek word  ETHNOS / the Jewish  Nation .

#4 , Caiaphas , in verse 50 and 51  , that the  WHOLE  NATION / ETHNOS , show another translation .

#5 , The same Greek word that is used in Matt 10:5 ,  GENTILE / ETHNOS .


#6 , The  CONTEXT  in  Matt 28 :16 are the disciples and  NOT  Gentiles but  JEWS !!

#7 , And in Matt 28:19 , they are to GO , AND TEACH ALL  NATIONS / ETHNOS , same Greek word that is used in John 11:50 and in verse 51 !!

The question that is  NEVER  ASKED  and  NEVER  ANSWERED  as  to why  they , the disciples  ARE  sent to all Nations /  ETHNOS ??


Because the Jewish  /  ETHNOS  are scattered among the Roman empire and the John the Baptist , message of Matt 3:1-11  needs to reach them and they the  ( JEWS )  NEED repentance and Baptism  before their  MESSIAH  can accept them .

I submit that the so-called Great  Commission is all Jewish and has nothing to do with us !!!

The Greek word  ETHNOS ,  can be translated by the following English words ,  Heathen  , Gentiles , Nation .

[larry2]

No, this will take place in the millennium when Jesus has taken that power given Him.

[blituri]

Dan cannot read BLACK text on BROWN paper: hasn't turned to the Lord.

Abraham was not a Jew: Here is the ONLY spiritual covenant made to ALL people. Why accuse God of  being a respecter of persons?

Gen. 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying
       I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven,
       and as the sand which is upon the sea shore;
       and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen. 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
       because thou hast obeyed my voice.

The GENTILES are GENTILES: these were the 70 nations: that's all. The Jews under the Monarchy asked to be GENTILES and God ABANDONED them to that.  He didn't say a blessing FIRST to the Jews and THEN to the Gentiles.

H1471 gôy gôy go'ee, go'-ee Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:—Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

You are saying that Jesus FAILED to be that promised seed (singular).

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
       All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matt. 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
      1. baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
       2. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
           and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.  Matt. 28:20

G1484 ethnos eth'-nos Probably from G1486 ; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan):—Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

That is why Christ in Spirit had already informed any literate person:

Is. 49:5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant,
      to bring Jacob again to him,
      Though Israel be not gathered,
      yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.
Is. 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest
     be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob,
     and to restore the preserved of Israel:
     I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles,
     that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Jesus send the Apostles to ALL of the nations He was promised to BLESSED. You are denying that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God Who SEPARATED His people  in the synagogue FROM the cursed people of the Monarchy.

Paul was a Jew and literate too: He was convincing the racist Jews that they had absolutely no superior priority.

Gal. 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith,
       the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal. 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith,
     preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal. 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal. 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:
      for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things
     which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal. 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident:
      for, The just shall live by faith. (before, during, after the Law)
Gal. 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal. 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal. 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham
       might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ;
       that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

G1484 ethnos eth'-nos Probably from G1486 ; a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan):—Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

There was no blessing through David or Solomon or any earthly Monarch who did NOT follow Moses.

Jesus died on the cross for the GENTILES.  The Believer's Baptism of TWO GOSPELS calls Paul a liar. The only way that either Jew or Gentile could appropriate that blood was being BAPTIZED in water after which they were FREE FROM SIN. Just as with the Jews at Pentecost--all guilty of one thing or another and  probably NONE directly crucifying Jesus--Paul show that being baptized made one FREE OF SIN which is the meaning of being saved by THE FAITH of Jesus Christ.

Gal. 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal. 3:27 For (I mean that) as many of you
     as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal. 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek,
      there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female:
      for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal. 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed,
      and heirs according to the promise.  

Being a Jew was a nulity: God abandoned them because they refused to listen to His voice at Mount Sinai. People who lived under the LAW were justified by faith which exercised itself in righteousness and justice.

You are a  radically false teacher. You believe what the local Jews believed at Pentecost and most of them were baptized with WIND and FIRE.

[HRoberson]

The problem of course is that ETHNOS (must we capitalize everything?) may well mean NATIONS.

So, when we're talking about a nation, we would use the same word as when we are saying go into all the nations.

Odd, just like English.

But we can tell the difference, can't we?

[Jimbob]

So the commission to go and teach the nations about Jesus doesn't really mean to go and tell the nations about Jesus.    Sorry, but my filter is set to the "if they tell the text doesn't mean what it plainly says, raise the red flag" setting.

[yogi bear]

Yes I do not think this is really worthy of any time to rebuke it is loudly clear something is off here. Must have been sent a strong delusion.

[larry2]

Revelation of the King Pre-figured by Mary Bodie.

       The Kingdom Gospel closes with the appearing of the Lord to the eleven in Galilee as He had appointed: but it seems that His brethren included more than just the apostles. It probably was here that He was revealed to more than five hundred brethren at once, as Paul later informs us - I Cor. 15:6. That gathering was no doubt prophetic of the beginning of the regathering of Israel from the world and the setting up of Christ's Kingdom. The King assures them of having all authority given into His hands, and as such He sends them out to disciple all nations. This is not the message of Paul, nor the Gospel for this age. Simon, which is Peter, at the very first declared the program of God's dealings. Listen; he tells us that God is simply visiting the Gentiles now, taking out of them a people for His name. But later, after this, He will return to Israel, as also the prophets declare, and build again the ruins of David which are fallen down - Acts 15:16,17. Then will be the time when they shall baptize all discipled nations into the Name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The triune God will then be fully revealed. Today, as members of Christ's body, we are baptized into the Name of Jesus, being significant of Him as Head, the fullness of the God-Head dwelling in Him. To be a part of the great Man of destiny, the Christ, who is to rule all nations, is a much greater honor than to be one of a nation even tho' they are disciples. And we note that the twelve, the Kingdom apostles did not follow this prescribed formula, for they obtained the mind of the Spirit for the time and baptized believers into the Name of Jesus - Acts 2:38. The body of Christ was already in formation; for as Paul later informs us, "In one Spirit were we all baptized into one body" - I Cor. 12:13, R. V. 

       Again we emphasize the fact that "all nations" were to be the sphere of the Kingdom message, which certainly does not signify Gentiles only. This is the Kingdom Gospel, therefore this proclamation is especially to Israel who are hidden in the world. They will manifest their character as the true Israel by the reception they accord the messengers of God and their message. The further words, "Lo, I am with you always even unto the end of the age," are a wondrous promise of encouragement. They are applicable at all times, yet will be of special import to the remnant, who shall preach the Gospel of the kingdom, of which those first disciples, who heard these words, were but the earnest. They will no doubt be in desperate need of its comfort and strength and find it a tower in which they may hide in the day of trouble - the hour of judgment which is coming upon the earth.

       The commission that is given the disciples in Mark's Gospel is entirely different from Matthew's. That is only another proof of the inspiration of the Scriptures. They are here sent to preach to every creature, not nations discipled, but individuals converted. Faith that is only implied as necessary in Matthew's words is insisted upon by Mark. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be damned," irrespective of whether he is baptized or not. Then come the signs which followed the Gospel in the beginning and still follow those that believe. Matthew gives us no hint of them because they are in Mark's Gospel in their own proper place, in the sin-offering aspect of the cross. These signs emphasize the fact that the power of Satan over mankind has been broken by the death and resurrection of Christ. The Stronger One has entered the strong one's house and destroyed his goods, as even the very first of the gifts assures. "They shall (cast out demons in my Name," is the glad proclamation that Christ reigns supreme over all the domain which Satan had usurped and held for ages. In the second gift, the new tongue, we have the reversal of the judgment of Babel. There men were scattered by the different tongues in which they spoke: here is the sign that they are united into one body by the one baptism of the Spirit. Men cursed God at the defeat of Babel because they could not understand one another; while at Pentecost they all spoke the same thing. They told of the wonderful works of God and shouted His praise in different languages, signifying that the victory is for the world. All men everywhere are called to praise God.

       The taking up of serpents, as well as the annulment of every deadly drink, by faith, further proves that Satan is a conquered foe. All his weapons have been taken out of his hand, as the fifth sign is conclusive evidence - "They shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover." Victory over Satan and victory over sickness are the glorious results of the victory over sin which Christ achieved for man by being made sin. Sin's annulment is the devil's defeat. It deprives him of his power over man. Sickness and death are thereby vanquished. Hallelujah! Thus in Mark we are taken further on than in Matthew. We are not only out of the grave with Christ, but we are taken up to heaven in our representative. Mark gives us a glimpse of the Conqueror ascended and sitting on the right hand of God. He is back whence He came, but not the same. He was there before, eternally equal with God; but now He goes back a Man, a Servant, joined to His people, with whom He is seen here still working. He is one with them forever. It is the place He has chosen. He had to stoop to conquer, but oh, the grandeur of His abasement! To all eternity we shall marvel at the mystery of the Gospel of the Son of God.

[alive_n_christ]

2 Timothy 3: 16-17~~All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for
                                   doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
                                   That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto
                                   all good works.


   Notice it says, "ALL scripture"...not just parts of scripture, but All are given by inspiration of God ( not man, but God) and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.   Why?  So, that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto "ALL" good works.
It would seem that the word of God, then, in it's entirety has something for all of us, not just Jews, not just Gentiles, not just the black, not just the white, not just one particular group while excluding another, but "ALL of us".  The word of God is for all and if we would all accept it as the inspired word of God, we would discover within it by Faith the perfecting Love of God and the guidance and direction in life we all need, so that we would all come into the unity of the Faith in Christ Jesus, being throughly perfected in him.
I understand, though, not everyone will do this.
Still, here is what Paul said unto Timothy here in 2 Timothy regarding the scriptures.

2Timothy 3:14-15~~But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast
                                 been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And
                                 that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are
                                 able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in
                                 Christ Jesus.

[larry2]

Dear alive_n_christ, do you truly believe that everything in the word of God is directed to you personally? I for one do not believe I was given an order to not eat of the tree of knowledge for instance.

Everywhere Abraham walked would be his. What I'm attempt[ting to say is that God worked with the Gentiles after having gone first to the Jews and them for the most part rejecting Him. There were different covenants, different promises, and different rewards.

Those beheaded under the altar in Revelation 6:9 certainly do not have the place of the twenty-four elders in Revelation 4:4.

What do you think of the 144,000 of Revelation Chapter Seven all being Jews and then when they get to heaven in Revelation 14:3 "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth." Us Gentiles cannot share in that.

Anyhow that is my thoughts on it and God bless you in Jesus' name.

[comfy]

I submit that the so-called Great Commission is all Jewish and has nothing to do with us !!!

Well, Jesus did start with the Jews, then the Jews spread the Gospel to us Gentiles.

"My cup runs over." (in Psalm 23:5) What is in your cup will spread to others; so what started with the Jews has spread to us.

Also, we have 1 John 2:2 > "And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." So, Christ is for all of us, not only for the Jews.

And, actually, we who are circumcised in our hearts are all Israelites, while there are Jews who are *not* truly Israelites: "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is  not from men but from God." (Romans 2:28-29)

So, the Great Commission is for Jews . . . for all of us who have been circumcised in our hearts So, if you say it has nothing to do with you, are you saying you are not one circumcised in Christ

Another thing . . . Peter has commanded leaders how they need to serve: "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3) So, our leaders are to be our "examples". An example is a sample of how we all need to be and what we all need to do. Our first examples were told by Jesus to go out into all the world and make disciples of all men. And we are to follow the example of Jesus who was doing this, though at first starting with His Jewish disciples.

[dan p]

[quote author=comfy link=topic=46907.msg82)

So, the Great Commission is for Jews . . . for all of us who have been circumcised in our hearts So, if you say it has nothing to do with you, are you saying you are not one circumcised in Christ

Another thing . . . Peter has commanded leaders how they need to serve: "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3) So, our leaders are to be our "examples". An example is a sample of how we all need to be and what we all need to do. Our first examples were told by Jesus to go out into all the world and make disciples of all men. And we are to follow the example of Jesus who was doing this, though at first starting with His Jewish disciples.
[/quote]

Hi comfy , I did not mention Circumcision in the OP .

Since you brought it up , WAS  Cornelius Circumcised in Acts 10 ?   There is a verse , right ?

[Amo]

Gen 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Gen 18:17And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

[Jaime]

I was studying this the other day and wondered what laws, and statutes and commandments Abraham kept, since the Torah had not been written yet?

[comfy]

Hi comfy , I did not mention Circumcision in the OP .

Since you brought it up , WAS  Cornelius Circumcised in Acts 10 ?   There is a verse , right ?
[/quote]The circumcision that I'm talking about is the spiritual circumcision "made without hands" (Colossians 2:11), making us all Israelites in the one nation of Jesus Christ, where "There is neither Jew nor Greek" (in Galatians 3:28); "but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit," as we have in Romans 2:29. So, if one receives this circumcision of the heart, one becomes a true Israelite of God's one nation obedient to Christ our King.

So - - - talking about if Cornelius was circumcised physically when Peter and the others came to his house . . . Acts verse 10:45 refers to "those of the circumcision" who were there when Cornelius and others with him had "received the Holy Spirit" (Acts 10:47). I see this could mean Cornelius was not circumcised physically, like Peter and his companions were; but Cornelius *became* circumcised spiritually by the Holy Spirit making him a true Israelite by becoming circumcised in his heart.

And the Holy Spirit makes us witnesses who make disciples of all men, as Jesus has commanded. Once Cornelius and his received the Holy Spirit, they were, Peter said, "just as we," in Acts 10:47.

[dan p]

Dear alive_n_christ, do you truly believe that everything in the word of God is directed to you personally? I for one do not believe I was given an order to not eat of the tree of knowledge for instance.

Everywhere Abraham walked would be his. What I'm attempt[ting to say is that God worked with the Gentiles after having gone first to the Jews and them for the most part rejecting Him. There were different covenants, different promises, and different rewards.

Those beheaded under the altar in Revelation 6:9 certainly do not have the place of the twenty-four elders in Revelation 4:4.

What do you think of the 144,000 of Revelation Chapter Seven all being Jews and then when they get to heaven in Revelation 14:3 "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth." Us Gentiles cannot share in that.

Anyhow that is my thoughts on it and God bless you in Jesus' name.

Hi larry2 , maybe we will not always agree , but good reply , dan p

[dan p]

So the commission to go and teach the nations about Jesus doesn't really mean to go and tell the nations about Jesus.    Sorry, but my filter is set to the "if they tell the text doesn't mean what it plainly says, raise the red flag" setting.

Hi James and I have another reason that what I have written should be taken seriously .

In Num 23:9 and it says that Israel will dwell ALONE , and shall not be Reckoned among the  Nations /Gentiles .

In the Millennium , Israel  are all going to be a Kingdom of Priests , found in  EX 19:6  and in I Peter 2:9 .

The Body of Christ is  NEVER  promised  a  Davidic throne , the Abrahamic Covenant or the Palestinnian or a New  Covenant , like Israel is !!

[eveh]

Jesus and the apostles were sent to the Jews. Paul was sent to the Gentiles.

[dan p]

Jesus and the apostles were sent to the Jews. Paul was sent to the Gentiles.

Hi eveh , amen to your post , dan p

[blituri]

The people or on Mount Zion: they heard SOUNDS LIKE up above them in the air. All of the SOUNDS LIKE are those calculated to induce panic. That is why they  are a sign of IMPENDING JUDGMENT. Therefore, if you are still among the LIVING the angel's message to you was PREACH THE GOSPEL.

No one PLAYS harps in heaven: they HOLD or apprehend the "harps of God" and not the harps of David"

If you dwell on the EARTH and if you are a NATION then the message is for you WHEN the  panic sounds are silenced.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I was studying this the other day and wondered what laws, and statutes and commandments Abraham kept, since the Torah had not been written yet?

Mostly just tithing to Melchizedek.

[blituri]

And when you tithe make sure that you take it out of the king of Sodom's loot.

[dan p]

Dan cannot read BLACK text on BROWN paper: hasn't turned to the Lord.

Abraham was not a Jew: Here is the ONLY spiritual covenant made to ALL people. Why accuse God of  being a respecter of persons?

Hi blituri , and so far you have gotten one thing right and 99% of believers fail to see one thing you got right .

He was ABRAM and then his name was changed to Abraham , a father of many nations , and he was a Gentile at that time .

Even the translators did not catch that in Gal 3:6 and also Rom 4:3 as the KJV has Abraham and you can never trust  tanslations .