There is an issue tht has not left my mind for a while concerning the scriptures

[arleigh]

I had been reviewing many things that Jesus taught and the way He lived,  and compared thje laws and culture He did not recognize(behave).
I have to assume that Jesus would not break His own laws, God's laws , so there were laws that men established in God' s sted, just as Paul established himself an athourity and laid down a few edicts, Jesus did not ever imply. (I know I'll get an argument out of this , just hear me out. 
It also occured to me that knowing that the Bible is a culmination of men's assyembly,and not a complete work in and of it's self. all that God spoke and speaks, is not there.
  God continues to speak to us today,and give instuction into our daily lives,via the Holy Spirit Jesus provided availability to all believers.
And I know there is a danger of people being drawn off on tangents and cults with this statement but the fact is ,Jesus gave His instruction to the disciples to be guided of the Holy Spirit in Jesus place.
All early christians had, was the old testament and the Holy Spirit, but christianity fell into the same pit the jews did when Moses led them to the promised land. They wanted a king in stead of being governed by God.  Human nature tends to think some one can be blamed thus providing an excuse for living out side Gods governing,= sin.
  Jesus raised the bar of responsibility, and Paul lowers it again. grace. the saME AS THE JEWS DID WITH THE LAW.
  When they had brought the woman caught in adultery before Jesus, they broke the law.
According to the law, both the man and the woman were both to be stoned; where was the man ?
    Pauls charictor came from this same culture of compromise. . His emphisis on love may seem admirable but not accurate. Paul both a man from a political back ground, taught a political compromise, Jesus did not.
God deserves our obedience, not substatute simlitudes that men mimic with out the relationship of obedience Jesus taught, by His life by his word by His provision. this obedience is not to the letter of men's invention, whom teach for doctrinre the commandments of men.
   Sin reigns in a persons life, living with out the instruction of the Holy spirit. This is where the scribes and pharesees choose to fail, this is where christians choose to  fail.
  Accept a man is born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven.
   A man not yielded  or has given up being yielded to the Holy Spirit has no part with God.
the way is narrow, and can only be found through the continious guidance of the Holy Spirit, who teaches in Jesus' sted, and reaferms the things Jesus taught.
For scriptural references I give you Mathew,Mark Luke and John.
We owe God, personal obedience.

[gospel]

I had been reviewing many things that Jesus taught and the way He lived,  and compared thje laws and culture He did not recognize(behave).
I have to assume that Jesus would not break His own laws, God's laws , so there were laws that men established in God' s sted, just as Paul established himself an athourity and laid down a few edicts, Jesus did not ever imply. (I know I'll get an argument out of this , just hear me out. 
It also occured to me that knowing that the Bible is a culmination of men's assyembly,and not a complete work in and of it's self. all that God spoke and speaks, is not there.
  God continues to speak to us today,and give instuction into our daily lives,via the Holy Spirit Jesus provided availability to all believers.
And I know there is a danger of people being drawn off on tangents and cults with this statement but the fact is ,Jesus gave His instruction to the disciples to be guided of the Holy Spirit in Jesus place.
All early christians had, was the old testament and the Holy Spirit, but christianity fell into the same pit the jews did when Moses led them to the promised land. They wanted a king in stead of being governed by God.  Human nature tends to think some one can be blamed thus providing an excuse for living out side Gods governing,= sin.
  Jesus raised the bar of responsibility, and Paul lowers it again. grace. the saME AS THE JEWS DID WITH THE LAW.
  When they had brought the woman caught in adultery before Jesus, they broke the law.
According to the law, both the man and the woman were both to be stoned; where was the man ?
    Pauls charictor came from this same culture of compromise. . His emphisis on love may seem admirable but not accurate. Paul both a man from a political back ground, taught a political compromise, Jesus did not.
God deserves our obedience, not substatute simlitudes that men mimic with out the relationship of obedience Jesus taught, by His life by his word by His provision. this obedience is not to the letter of men's invention, whom teach for doctrinre the commandments of men.
   Sin reigns in a persons life, living with out the instruction of the Holy spirit. This is where the scribes and pharesees choose to fail, this is where christians choose to  fail.
  Accept a man is born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven.
   A man not yielded  or has given up being yielded to the Holy Spirit has no part with God.
the way is narrow, and can only be found through the continious guidance of the Holy Spirit, who teaches in Jesus' sted, and reaferms the things Jesus taught.
For scriptural references I give you Mathew,Mark Luke and John.
We owe God, personal obedience.

Perhaps there is no contradiction but rather it is your understanding of what Jesus meant that is askew?

In fact I am sure that whenever there seems to be a conflict or contradiction in the Word it is not the Word that is wrong but rather

Our understanding of it

I submit to you that you are correct that Jesus raised the bar

However you haven't seemed to grasp the heart of what Jesus was saying by doing so was....

The bar was raised to a place where it was being made abundantly clear that fulfilling righteousness was IMPOSSIBLE for man

and only Possible for God

You have been assuming the bar was raised for us to do more

But I believe scripture makes it clear

The bar was raised for man to ONLY DEPEND ON JESUS AND HIS WORK

That is in fact the entire context of what He preached

REST IN ME

The problem with that is that too many of us do not understand that RESTING in Jesus is how WE OVERCOME sin, disobedience and everything that exalts itself above the Name and Knowledge of God

That is why we are exhorted by Paul to

LABOR TO REST and that in itself, in the natural, in the flesh appears to be a contradiction if you will, a complete oxymoron .....

yet in the Spirit

It is the Wisdom of God....LABOR TO REST!

That is where the Bar was raised

[canuck]

Great response, Gospel...

canuck

[larry2]

Paul received a revelation, and a dispensation to reveal the finished gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to the Church. Which doctrines that were hidden from previous generations now made known are not to be counted the word of God. We read in Romans 2:16, "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." Hope you're ready when you ignore this and the following scriptures, but most of all I hope you find understanding of Paul's words to be the words of Jesus.
 
Ephesians 3:3  How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
 
Galatians 1:1  Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Galatians 1:11  But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

Galatians 1:12  For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:25  Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God;

Colossians 1:26  Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

[Saul 25]

Jesus only spoke the exact mind of God concerning sin so that people would know just how far they were from God and how much they needed a Savior.  Paul taught the mind of Jesus not the mind of Paul.  Jesus through Paul was demonstrating to us just how kind and compassionate God would be to those who accepted the sacrifice of Christ.

[alive_n_christ]

First of all, you're entitled to accept or reject the Bible or parts of the Bible, if that is what you so desire to your own demise, but may I encourage you to not do that for your own soul sake.

2 Timothy 3:16-17~~All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for
                                doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
                                That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all
                                good works.

2 Peter 3:13-18~~Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens
                             and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
                             Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent
                            that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
                            And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
                            even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom
                            given unto him hath written unto you;  As also in all his epistles,
                             speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to
                            be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
                              as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
                            Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware
                             lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from
                            your own stedfastness.
                             But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour
                             Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

May I remind you, the book of Peter was written by the Apostle Peter, who was also the Lord's disciple and followed Christ when Christ was here on this earth and  was an eye witness of Christ and this was what he had to say regarding Paul's writings.
It don't surprise me that some want to reject portions of the scripture rather than obeying it, for mankind loves darkness instead of light because their deeds are evil.
John 3:19-21~~And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and
                         men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
                        For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light,
                        lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to
                        the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought
                        in God.

[ela]

I had been reviewing many things that Jesus taught and the way He lived,  and compared thje laws and culture He did not recognize(behave).
I have to assume that Jesus would not break His own laws, God's laws , so there were laws that men established in God' s sted, just as Paul established himself an athourity and laid down a few edicts, Jesus did not ever imply. (I know I'll get an argument out of this , just hear me out. 
It also occured to me that knowing that the Bible is a culmination of men's assyembly,and not a complete work in and of it's self. all that God spoke and speaks, is not there.
  God continues to speak to us today,and give instuction into our daily lives,via the Holy Spirit Jesus provided availability to all believers.
And I know there is a danger of people being drawn off on tangents and cults with this statement but the fact is ,Jesus gave His instruction to the disciples to be guided of the Holy Spirit in Jesus place.
All early christians had, was the old testament and the Holy Spirit, but christianity fell into the same pit the jews did when Moses led them to the promised land. They wanted a king in stead of being governed by God.  Human nature tends to think some one can be blamed thus providing an excuse for living out side Gods governing,= sin.
  Jesus raised the bar of responsibility, and Paul lowers it again. grace. the saME AS THE JEWS DID WITH THE LAW.
  When they had brought the woman caught in adultery before Jesus, they broke the law.
According to the law, both the man and the woman were both to be stoned; where was the man ?
    Pauls charictor came from this same culture of compromise. . His emphisis on love may seem admirable but not accurate. Paul both a man from a political back ground, taught a political compromise, Jesus did not.
God deserves our obedience, not substatute simlitudes that men mimic with out the relationship of obedience Jesus taught, by His life by his word by His provision. this obedience is not to the letter of men's invention, whom teach for doctrinre the commandments of men.
   Sin reigns in a persons life, living with out the instruction of the Holy spirit. This is where the scribes and pharesees choose to fail, this is where christians choose to  fail.
  Accept a man is born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven.
   A man not yielded  or has given up being yielded to the Holy Spirit has no part with God.
the way is narrow, and can only be found through the continious guidance of the Holy Spirit, who teaches in Jesus' sted, and reaferms the things Jesus taught.
For scriptural references I give you Mathew,Mark Luke and John.
We owe God, personal obedience.

Perhaps there is no contradiction but rather it is your understanding of what Jesus meant that is askew?

In fact I am sure that whenever there seems to be a conflict or contradiction in the Word it is not the Word that is wrong but rather

Our understanding of it

I submit to you that you are correct that Jesus raised the bar

However you haven't seemed to grasp the heart of what Jesus was saying by doing so was....

The bar was raised to a place where it was being made abundantly clear that fulfilling righteousness was IMPOSSIBLE for man

and only Possible for God

You have been assuming the bar was raised for us to do more

But I believe scripture makes it clear

The bar was raised for man to ONLY DEPEND ON JESUS AND HIS WORK

That is in fact the entire context of what He preached

REST IN ME

The problem with that is that too many of us do not understand that RESTING in Jesus is how WE OVERCOME sin, disobedience and everything that exalts itself above the Name and Knowledge of God

That is why we are exhorted by Paul to

LABOR TO REST and that in itself, in the natural, in the flesh appears to be a contradiction if you will, a complete oxymoron .....

yet in the Spirit

It is the Wisdom of God....LABOR TO REST!

That is where the Bar was raised

Very well said gospel!!! 

[arleigh]

Let me re
mind that 2 Tim 2;15 is a reference to old testament scriptuires. Letters were assyembled many years later MEN established them together as a canon . Have none of you ever studdied the bible history ?
  The most of them were letters, not writen as SCRIPTURES. most were writen as a historical record, much like Matthew , Mark, Luke, and John.
  Paul did not write scripture, he wrote letters. His perspective , His instruction. though He ahd been taught of the spirit to some degree, he also was a pharesee acustomed to throwing His weigh around, and he did use it.
The only Scriptures in my understanding are the things God said or Jesus said spicifically.
As i had made clear before Jesus did not behave men's additions to the law writen in the bible, He behaved His Father.
One must decide what is it they worship .
One's concept of God based on scriptures they choose,
or God Hmself . Jesus said God is Spirit, not scripture.

[arleigh]

Just a couple of comments
Paul recognized a problem
2 Cor.10;5,
1 Timothy 6;
One can get caught up in strifes over words, writen or otherwise.
I recomend the tutelage of the Holy Spirit, FOR A number of reasons.
He Is God's / Jesus' authorized teacher.
He always speaks the same truth,
Those taught of the Spirit tend to find a great deal in common.
any doctrinal differences are usually issues one has not yet been Spirit instructed.
Every one of us are teachable , and at the same time are quite aware of the source of our tutelage and do not waver from that.
The Bible is a fine source for getting started but like milk , it is not suppose to be the only thing in our diet spiritually. Healthy feeding comes only through the Holy spirit, as well as His guidance through out the day. the scriptures do not provide a personal relationship,Only the born again, regularly Spirit filled lifestyle does. Needing God ,hungering and thirsting after his righteousness,
  Jesus raised the bar Paul lowered it .
who's commands are going to stand up standing before Jesus on that day ?

[alive_n_christ]

Again, one can choose to accept or reject the bible as a whole or in part if that is what one chooses to do, but the Bible is still the Bible, regardless how it is accepted or rejected.
Just as Christ is the Son of God, regardless if the world accepts or rejects him.

However, when someone claims to be led of the Spirit of God but yet chooses to reject the Bible in part or as a whole, it poses a question. 
How can they be led by the very one they choose to reject?

For see, if one rejects the Bible as a whole or in part, which was inspired by the very Spirit of God, then how can they at the same time, be led by the Spirit of God?

Does God go against himself?  Of course not.

For a house divided against itself cannot stand.  So, if the Spirit of God inspired the Bible,  but yet would lead us away from certain parts of it and not want us to adhere to certain parts of it, would he not be going against himself, since he obviously did inspire the Bible?

It is very clear to me, the Spirit of God does not operate this way for he is not divided against himself. 

Luke 11:17~~But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided
                      against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house
                      falleth.

So,  the question is this, Since the Bible is the word of God, inspired by the Spirit of God, then why would the Spirit of God ever lead you or me away from his own word?

Personally, I believe the Holy Spirit will never direct one's footsteps away from the Bible.
Here's why:  2 Timothy 3:16-17~~All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is
                                                      profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for
                                                      instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may
                                                      be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

So, do we believe the Holy Spirit who inspired the scriptures is going to lead us away from
the very scriptures he inspired?  If so, where will he lead us? How will he lead us? By what means will he lead us?
We're told here in 2 Timothy chapter 3, verses 16-17, the scriptures are profitable for doctrine.  So, If we're led away from them, then are we led away from doctrine?

The scriptures are also profitable for reproof.  IF we are led away from them, then how will we be reproved?

The scriptures are also profitable for correction.  IF we are led away from them, then how can we be corrected?

The scriptures are also profitable for instruction in righteousness.  So, again, If we are led away from them, then how can we be instructed in righteousness?

The scriptures are also given to us that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.  If we are led away from them, then how can we be made perfect and throughly furnished unto all good works?

So, why would mankind choose to reject the Bible in part or as a whole?
John 3:20-21~~For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light,
                          lest his deeds should be reproved.
                         But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made
                         manifest, that they are wrought in God.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Actually, the word used in 1Tim is graphe, which just means "writing."

"All writing is God-breath..."

[larry2]

Dear Arleigh, you want Jesus' words to believe what Paul was doing?

Acts 9:15. "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he (Paul) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel."
 
Acts 23:11  And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, "Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome."
 
You attempt to make a case that Paul's epistles were not scripture but Peter thought so as he wrote in 2 Peter 3:16, "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

Somehow I'm thinking you're trying to use the old two-gospel or more theory when we read in Romans 1:1, "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God. All the different phases of the gospel such as gospel of the kingdom, the gospel of Jesus Christ, the gospel of the grace of God, the gospel of the uncircumcision, the gospel of the circumcision, the gospel of your salvation, the gospel of peace, and the glorious gospel of the blessed God.     
 
All of these characterizations of the gospel come under the umbrella of the gospel of God which is the fulfilled word of God we see in Colossians 1:25. God did not have one prophet reveal everything to one people at one time, and to repeat something I brought forth earlier in Colossians 1:26, "Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints." If you do not believe a part of God's word you simply will not grow up unto God in all things He has for you to be in His perfect will.

God bless you in Jesus' name.
   


 

[yogi bear]

To that I can agree with you  Larry

[arleigh]

In other words ,
I can make all the same claims Paul did, with all the warnings and commands and call it gospel and every one has to swalllow it.
He was not superman just because of an expirence just as we are not perfect either.
   I hate to say this, but it appears as though Paul worshipped a God of a double standard, some how that just doesn't sound right.
One rule for Jews and a different rule for gentiles. that's obsean. that's not God at least the one I know.
God is righteous and Holy , His charricter has never nor will ever change. Jesus represented Him perfectly in all His ways, yet a man comes fallowing after, and produces a compromise to many of the things God said, through Jesus, and his word, is prefirred over God /Jesus.
  I'm not saying Paul said every thing wrong, but in several issues that have become detramental to christianity as a whole, calling Paul's word gospel, is streching it too far.
  I say that if something does not line up perfectly with God's word is is out of alignment with God's word and there fore not "God's word". Jesus Is God's word,,any argument there ? Is Jesus not God's word??? say it .... 
  I do not fear the judgment of God nor the day I stand befoe Jesus to give account for the things I have been given to teach. which has always been , personal responsibility to be taught of God, and a life of obedience to God through the Holy Spirit ,not only in the understanding of scriptures but in every day affairs.
  One whom is afraid of God's leading and or instructon is alien to God them self .
Jesus said , Blessed are they that DO hunger and thirst after righteousness , for they shall be filled. knowledge is not righteousness, obedience real time is. Matthew 4;4, / 18;3,  2 Corinthians 10;5, ( Paul did get a few things right)
   Now , I ask you , If God is going to choose what is pleasing to Him, what kind of charricter might be prefirred,, the self willed and rebellious , or the transparent and obedient ? Matthew 13;47,-49, John15;
   Finally, I put to you that it is obedience that saves, not faith. demons have the faith most people opreate in, a pale acknowledgment of God, but not submission to Him.
Abraham would not be righteous had He not obeyed .
Needing faith is like saying one needs breath , but breath alone does not produce obedience, lip service does not produce worship.One on one subserviance to God, does.
 
 

[gospel]

In other words ,
I can make all the same claims Paul did, with all the warnings and commands and call it gospel and every one has to swalllow it.
He was not superman just because of an expirence just as we are not perfect either.
  I hate to say this, but it appears as though Paul worshipped a God of a double standard, some how that just doesn't sound right.
One rule for Jews and a different rule for gentiles. that's obsean. that's not God at least the one I know.
God is righteous and Holy , His charricter has never nor will ever change. Jesus represented Him perfectly in all His ways, yet a man comes fallowing after, and produces a compromise to many of the things God said, through Jesus, and his word, is prefirred over God /Jesus.
 I'm not saying Paul said every thing wrong, but in several issues that have become detramental to christianity as a whole, calling Paul's word gospel, is streching it too far.
 I say that if something does not line up perfectly with God's word is is out of alignment with God's word and there fore not "God's word". Jesus Is God's word,,any argument there ? Is Jesus not God's word??? say it ....  
 I do not fear the judgment of God nor the day I stand befoe Jesus to give account for the things I have been given to teach. which has always been , personal responsibility to be taught of God, and a life of obedience to God through the Holy Spirit ,not only in the understanding of scriptures but in every day affairs.
 One whom is afraid of God's leading and or instructon is alien to God them self .
Jesus said , Blessed are they that DO hunger and thirst after righteousness , for they shall be filled. knowledge is not righteousness, obedience real time is. Matthew 4;4, / 18;3,  2 Corinthians 10;5, ( Paul did get a few things right)
  Now , I ask you , If God is going to choose what is pleasing to Him, what kind of charricter might be prefirred,, the self willed and rebellious , or the transparent and obedient ? Matthew 13;47,-49, John15;
  Finally, I put to you that it is obedience that saves, not faith. demons have the faith most people opreate in, a pale acknowledgment of God, but not submission to Him.
Abraham would not be righteous had He not obeyed .
Needing faith is like saying one needs breath , but breath alone does not produce obedience, lip service does not produce worship.One on one subserviance to God, does.
 
 

The only thing I can say is

You're caught up in a maze of human reason, with your understanding bogged down in the mire of intellectual rationalization in a tangled web of worldly wisdom  

In short you seem to be quite confused, juggling and trying to make sense out of any thought that goes through your mind and your thought process seems to be bouncing all over the place with no anchor

Why do I say that?

Your statement that Demons HAVE FAITH...
is quite ridiculous ....if they did they would be pleasing to God

Besides what in God's Name would lead you to a conclusion that totally contradicts the Word of God....but a demon?


By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; Hebrews 11:17

Come back to the Light!

[rarejewel]

I had been reviewing many things that Jesus taught and the way He lived,  and compared thje laws and culture He did not recognize(behave).
I have to assume that Jesus would not break His own laws, God's laws , so there were laws that men established in God' s sted, just as Paul established himself an athourity and laid down a few edicts, Jesus did not ever imply. (I know I'll get an argument out of this , just hear me out. 
It also occured to me that knowing that the Bible is a culmination of men's assyembly,and not a complete work in and of it's self. all that God spoke and speaks, is not there.
  God continues to speak to us today,and give instuction into our daily lives,via the Holy Spirit Jesus provided availability to all believers.
And I know there is a danger of people being drawn off on tangents and cults with this statement but the fact is ,Jesus gave His instruction to the disciples to be guided of the Holy Spirit in Jesus place.
All early christians had, was the old testament and the Holy Spirit, but christianity fell into the same pit the jews did when Moses led them to the promised land. They wanted a king in stead of being governed by God.  Human nature tends to think some one can be blamed thus providing an excuse for living out side Gods governing,= sin.
  Jesus raised the bar of responsibility, and Paul lowers it again. grace. the saME AS THE JEWS DID WITH THE LAW.
  When they had brought the woman caught in adultery before Jesus, they broke the law.
According to the law, both the man and the woman were both to be stoned; where was the man ?
    Pauls charictor came from this same culture of compromise. . His emphisis on love may seem admirable but not accurate. Paul both a man from a political back ground, taught a political compromise, Jesus did not.
God deserves our obedience, not substatute simlitudes that men mimic with out the relationship of obedience Jesus taught, by His life by his word by His provision. this obedience is not to the letter of men's invention, whom teach for doctrinre the commandments of men.
   Sin reigns in a persons life, living with out the instruction of the Holy spirit. This is where the scribes and pharesees choose to fail, this is where christians choose to  fail.
  Accept a man is born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven.
   A man not yielded  or has given up being yielded to the Holy Spirit has no part with God.
the way is narrow, and can only be found through the continious guidance of the Holy Spirit, who teaches in Jesus' sted, and reaferms the things Jesus taught.
For scriptural references I give you Mathew,Mark Luke and John.
We owe God, personal obedience.

Great Post! I totally am feeling you and get where you are going on this one..TOTALLY!

[rarejewel]

arleigh,

I read the rest of your posts and we are definitely on the same page. Keep breaking it down, your doing a good job.

That is why we need the Holy Spirit to guide us in all things.

There are some things that Paul says that he says are his own opinion and not a command from God.

Paul also as many men back then had that 'sexist' attitude toward women. Women were property..We have the scriptures telling women not to speak in church..--Hence now we have total doctrines that say God is saying women are not called to teach or preach.

Yes, he was a man of God and God has given us his letters that have been very powerful in our lives, but we still must remember he was still a man...and some things he spoke were merely his 'opinion' and were not meant to be made into 'doctrines' that still today DIVIDE.

As you said, the early Christians did not have a "Bible" and 'New Testament'. These people were totally powerful and anointed to unlike many Christians today.

They brag and sit around talking about how much they READ the Bible yet many still have come to an understanding of what it is saying....

Amen!

[rarejewel]

Well, I will say this..the powers that be at the time ( and still a power today) the RCC really did a number on Christians and they used the Bible to do it.

I can't wait until that day when God totally removes the blinders and coverings off the eyes of his people. It is coming...

[gospel]

arleigh,

I read the rest of your posts and we are definitely on the same page. Keep breaking it down, your doing a good job.

That is why we need the Holy Spirit to guide us in all things.

There are some things that Paul says that he says are his own opinion and not a command from God.

Paul also as many men back then had that 'sexist' attitude toward women. Women were property..We have the scriptures telling women not to speak in church..--Hence now we have total doctrines that say God is saying women are not called to teach or preach.

Yes, he was a man of God and God has given us his letters that have been very powerful in our lives, but we still must remember he was still a man...and some things he spoke were merely his 'opinion' and were not meant to be made into 'doctrines' that still today DIVIDE.

As you said, the early Christians did not have a "Bible" and 'New Testament'. These people were totally powerful and anointed to unlike many Christians today.

They brag and sit around talking about how much they READ the Bible yet many still have come to an understanding of what it is saying....

Amen!

Arleigh if I were you I would take that pat on the back very lightly especially
if you take into account that rare jewel is a die hard believer of Universal Reconciliation aka Christian Universalism

You guys are on the same page? 

[alive_n_christ]

2 Peter 1:20-21~~Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 2:1-3~~But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways, by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

2 Peter 3:1-3~~This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

2 Peter 3:14-16~~Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

1 Timothy 4:1-2~~Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Galatians 1: 8-9~~But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

1 Corinthians 3:1-3~~And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal and walk as men?

Take it or leave it, my friends, there it is.  If you dispute it, you are simply disputing God's word, for God's Spirit moved on all these men to write the Bible and if you reject God's word, well, it's not God rejecting you, but it's you rejecting him and you can say the bible was just written by men, but God's spirit moved upon those men and if you're going to say you trust the leading of the Spirit of God, then you're going to have to accept the Bible as a whole instead of just what tickles your own ears.

[rarejewel]

arleigh,

I read the rest of your posts and we are definitely on the same page. Keep breaking it down, your doing a good job.

That is why we need the Holy Spirit to guide us in all things.

There are some things that Paul says that he says are his own opinion and not a command from God.

Paul also as many men back then had that 'sexist' attitude toward women. Women were property..We have the scriptures telling women not to speak in church..--Hence now we have total doctrines that say God is saying women are not called to teach or preach.

Yes, he was a man of God and God has given us his letters that have been very powerful in our lives, but we still must remember he was still a man...and some things he spoke were merely his 'opinion' and were not meant to be made into 'doctrines' that still today DIVIDE.

As you said, the early Christians did not have a "Bible" and 'New Testament'. These people were totally powerful and anointed to unlike many Christians today.

They brag and sit around talking about how much they READ the Bible yet many still have come to an understanding of what it is saying....

Amen!

Arleigh if I were you I would take that pat on the back very lightly especially
if you take into account that rare jewel is a die hard believer of Universal Reconciliation aka Christian Universalism

You guys are on the same page?  

Yes, I am a die hard believer in Universal Reconciliation just as you are a die hard believer in your own pagan-based theories and made-made WOF doctrines.

Amen.

End of story..

The thread has been separated and I will leave it at that.

[arleigh]

Faith as word is not submission, it is wholly a mental regard .
faith can be negitive as well ,when people bord a plane and reherse to them selves I'm going to get sick, they are putting their negitive faith to work.
Demons know God very well, make no mistake. Satan goes before God  regularly bringing accusation about those that claim Jesus name. Satan was coxed into Job's situation, by God, believe me ,there is no lack of communicaton here.
James by the way said "the demons believe in God,, and tremble."

[canuck]

Faith as word is not submission, it is wholly a mental regard .
faith can be negitive as well ,when people bord a plane and reherse to them selves I'm going to get sick, they are putting their negitive faith to work.

Does rehearsing the mantra, " I'm going to get sick " have anything to do with faith? Faith according to Heb. 10:1,6 is dependent on circumstances created and operative outside one's personal control. Willing oneself to be sick is merely the determination not to remain well. We can deliberately alter our mental perspectives so radically as  to cause emotional disease, but to attribute that result to " negative faith" seems to be stretching it.

canuck

[comfy]

Arleigh, your title says you have "an issue". So far, it looks to me like you have only made a general statement, with no specific scripture to show exactly what you are talking about.

How about if you share what is the number-one item in Paul's writing that you feel is not a match with Jesus and all that Jesus did and says.

I mean, put out one thing . . . one clear issue, at a time.

For example, ones point to how Paul says, "Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called." (1 Corinthians 7:20) And then he goes on to apply this to mean, "Were you called while a slave? Do not be concerned about it, but if you can be made free, rather use it." (1 Corinthians 7:21) And then people claim that this shows that Paul was for slavery and therefore could not be in agreement with Jesus.

But the cross of Jesus can make clear what this means. If Jesus was in Heaven, itself, and came here to share with us, even sharing with humans by going through suffering and death, this shows how unconceited Jesus is, though He is so superior. He was willing to come and reach us where we are, and through death to deliver us from sin.

So, I can easily see that Jesus means that someone who is a slave can use this as one's calling, so one can be in a position to reach others who are slaves and slave masters, sharing with others where they are, like Jesus did. Not to mention . . . being a slave is not quite as rough as all that Jesus went through. But if one can become free, "rather use it." Use what you have. With God, you can make His good use of being a free person or a slave, like how Jesus voluntarily made use even of dying on a cross. Jesus says, "'He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.'" (John 12:25) But there are people who are in slavery to the lives they love and want to have for themselves, and they are deeply suffering in the spirit of that. Jesus and Paul understand this.

So, a slave who appreciates Christ's sacrifice for him or her could easily say, "This is not much for Jesus to ask of me, after all He went through for me, to love me." And Paul, himself, suffered much more than a number of slaves do. So, his actions were speaking louder than his words.

Jesus says, "'Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.'" (John 8:36) Jesus knew that sinners who are culturally free are slaves to Satan. And the deep slavery of sin in Satan's rotten messy spirit (Ephesians 2:2) with dominating and dictatorial emotions is worse than physical slavery. So, Jesus was willing to go through all that suffering, in order to get us free from the horribleness and mess that He knows is worse and more damaging than physical suffering and human slavery.

This is what Paul means, too, by saying what he has said. He says, "I will not be brought under the power of any," in 1 Corinthians 6:12. He understand how we humans can be "under the power of" things of this life, including our own so-called sorts of freedom and independence in witch we can get pretty nasty when we don't get things our own way. Paul is showing how in God's love we have such strength and freedom, that our happiness and peace and dignity can not be decided by if we are free or slaves.

So . . . Arleigh . . . how about giving a specific example Which one is your number-one issue?

[gospel]

Faith as word is not submission, it is wholly a mental regard .
faith can be negitive as well ,when people bord a plane and reherse to them selves I'm going to get sick, they are putting their negitive faith to work.
Demons know God very well, make no mistake. Satan goes before God  regularly bringing accusation about those that claim Jesus name. Satan was coxed into Job's situation, by God, believe me ,there is no lack of communicaton here.
James by the way said "the demons believe in God,, and tremble."

arleigh you seem to have a blurred kind of understanding of what faith is when in fact it is not blurry and not at all as you describe it


A basic way to understand faith is as an action word.

In other words faith is acting on what one believes! That's the simplest way to put it

Now that we have that clarified lets define it further for as you have pointed out there are different types of faith.

For instance the faith you ascribe to demons is not the same faith Jesus was referring to when he said have faith in God

How do I know that? Well that's simple...the bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God

There goes that word again... "hearing" but that's another thread and I digress anyway

The Bible kind of faith or shall we say the God kind of faith, the kind of faith that Jesus was referring to in Mark 11:22  and the kind of faith Paul is speaking of in Romans 10:17 is the kind of faith that matters in terms of the Kingdom of God.

Satan knows God exists but Satan's actions reflect faith in his own abilities NOT GODS so no...Satan does not have faith, at least not the same kind of faith we refer to when we speak of faith

The demons which as you know are fallen angels have faith in Satan, for they believed him and turned from God to him...hence they are fallen.

But to a degree you are correct in that God has given to every man a measure of faith ( Romans 12:3 )

However as humans we have a choice to line our faith up with the God kind of faith
Jesus and Paul spoke of

or

the worldly kind of faith we all encounter everyday

Worldly faith is subtle, in fact so much so non believers will tell you they don't operate in faith but we know that is not true because we never seen any of them conducting a stress test on a chair before they sit on it.

They sit on it because they have faith the chair will hold them! Most of them will argue till they are blue that isn't faith but rather scientific conclusion based on the laws of probability and statistical analytical findings which lead them to conclude chairs do not usually break. 

So ask one of them if tomorrow exists, they say no to which I say but you've made plans for tomorrow, next week, next month and you have a 5 year business plan that's a lot of effort to put into something that does not exist...a true die-hard, dyed in the wool non believer will try to tell you that planning for the future has nothing to do with faith

But we know different don't we?

It is indeed faith but it is not necessarily the kind of faith Jesus and Paul spoke of and that's the difference between what the demons believe, what the world believes and what we believe

So when people use that scripture from James to minimize the importance of faith  I kindly try to show them how they are taking it out of context of what James was talking about which was

Faith is an action word

In other words I know you are a believer because you do the things a believer should do, visit the sick feed the hungry, clothe the poor, etc, etc

Because faith is acting on what one believes

Abraham went to a place he did not know because he believed God, you call that obedience but the difference between the 2 is this

Anyone can do something out of obedience and still not believe

God is not looking for just obedience, He is looking for someone who can believe what they cannot see for if I am just obedient for the sake of being obedient I can decide not to be obedient when it suits me

Ahhhhhh but if I believe.....

All things are possible to them that believe Mark 10:27

I can achieve the impossible

Short version

They're extraordinarily obedient in North Korea but in South Korea....
there are millions of believers

Now choose

[arleigh]

If we cannot agree that the word believe and faith are some what interchangable , then please forgive me.
  James made it clear James 2;19 the devils believe and tremble.
We posess faith in many things having nothing to do with God , for instance you posess faith in your internet connection otherwise you would not be here. you might even equire faith of others in your ability to drive , fly a plane or do your job. If they do not have faith in you they do not get in the car with you . In that case their faith is excersized in the expectation that it is unsafe to ride with you.
  if people are going to srtive over words to no profit this is all pointless.
I am not saying that every thing Paul said is wrong, but there are certain issues Paul has introduced that even conflict with Him self and the things Jesus taught.
Paul came from a back ground of being "word dependent" not taught of the spirit or "spirit dependent" and after being saved discovered the tutelage of the spirit. But jumped into ministry before He had cleared up his past and brought it with him, including it with the gospel. His declaration of apostleship is his own , keep that in mind.
All of you have a bible before you, each look at it from their own frame of reference, the teachings you have recieved in the past doctrine of men.
  All my references come from all that is contained in scripture, I prefir to believe Jesus.
God did not instruct to be taught of Paul nor did God endorce Paul as He did Jesus.
Adam first Got God's word face to face, then Adam chose to prefir a twist to God's word.calling God a liar.
  Jesus laid out spicific responsibility and requirments to enter the Kingdom of heaven.
For reference I give you Matthew Mark Luke and John.
Accountability and obedience are manditory according to Jesus teaching and lifestyle.
Paul comes along with the law and grace as though God has approved of sin. Just do the best you can fallowing these rules of mine, and my rules are the only ones that count , because I said so.
  He talks of being led of the spirit Romans 8;but then excludes the spirit's influence making himself the athourity.
He even admits still being plegged with sin, yet he knows the leading of the spirit, and knows there is a conflict. because he is still struggling with reconsiling Jesus Gospel to his past education based on the letter.His greek culture also lended him the tendency to rely on love rather than accountability.
  Jesus emphisized accountability far more than love is ever mentioned.
  Paul did not have the advantage of the gospels, so it is understandable that his perspective is blurred in certain areas, the disciples distrust of Him most  likely kept them at a distance. 
In those things Paul agrees in Jesus teaching , I have no problem, but I do not regard Paul an athourity over Jesus.
Is Jesus the living word of God , or is Paul.?
whom is it that is going to be on the thrown passing judgment ?
 

[arleigh]

Just for the record
I have  no ties with christian universalism,
as a matter of fact, one very strong issue is that I believe Jesus 1000% and put every thing He said ahead of any one else in scripture.
This also means i believe in Jesus exclusivity for salvation and the narrow way He taught lived and expects out of His believers,
by definition of narrow , the only way to know the way is to be born again and Filled with the Holy spirit,  and  not jusr=t as an expirence but Having His tutelage through out my life. Not for the sake of being smart but to kknow His voice to obey God through him as Jesus said.
The Holy Spirit reaferms the the things Jesus taught and a great deal more .
Jesus did not chase after any one, nor argue to change any one's mind, the closest He got to repeating Him self was to explain a parable to his disciples that He did not intend every one to get the first time. Crowds fallowed Jesus for entertainment , He knew only the hungry for truth would hang on for further teaching.
  Very few in this world are going to be saved , just as the flood and Lot's family only a few .
   Heaven has a size limitation (Revelations) joohn was instructed to mesure it so it means literally a spicific volume. Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is like a man casting his net into the sea and drawing it out he decides what is worth keeping and what is not .
Many people think that because they made some decision 10 years ago every thing is okey dokey, but they have done nothing with the relationship and are resting on a lot of false information living like the rest of the world never taught that this faith is relationship based , not merely thought or good deeds or teaching sunday school or being a missionary. if there is no obedience to God on a pesonal level they have no relationship.
Matthew 7;21,22,23,
If they merely hang on to Christ like a leach God the father will remove them John 15; just as you would removes leaches off of your own children. sadly some parents
do not recognize all the different leaches in the world ( religious one's included)and act to remove them, from them selves nor their children.
The Holy Spirit gives direction where the goods in my charge are to go, I have to choose to obey but it is my choice to obey.
God does not dictate, but He guides my way. I ask often because I need His input often.
He does not respond on command, and I don't expect him to, but in His time ,and that is fine I know He knows what is best. And at times I do not hear from Him I simply trust his providence to work things our ahead of me , and He does.
Because this is a warfare, I have had several dealings with Satan and his own (both people and demons) and I am well aware of the battle at hand . I thank Jesus for the power of His name , with out whom I would be distroyed, and because of Jesus I am preserved and so amazed.
Should he take me home today, I would be tickled out of my sox.
I understand the problem of legalism and the letter, and Jesus did too, that is the whole reason for the Baptism and renewal of the Holy spirit to His cherished believers.
  Men then abused the scriptures then, just as they do today, the woman caught in adultery was illegally taken to be stoned , they knew it and Jesus wrote the law on the ground, proving He knew it as well, and they were in trouble .
  Obedience does not come from the scriptures but from a relationship with God. The scriptures are a map but the Holy spirit, is the guide through the map. One can know the map like the back of their hand every mound every valley tree rock bush, but with out the Holy spirit all you'll do is wander at your own guess work or some one elses.
  Jesus said , that nether jeruselam nor some mountain ARE NOT THE PLACE TO WORSHIP GOD BUT IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH, THOSE ARE THE ONES GOD SEEKS AFTER TO WORSHIP HIM.
  So one must decide where their worship is directed , whom gets premeir devotion and obedience honesty.
family
work
play
church
ministry
golf
relationships
posessions,
influence
education,
music,
worship music,
investments
Jesus himself
Ideally we all answer Jesus, but in honesty He usually get the bottom of the list in the lives of many.
And it is because they are not taught that it is an on going relationship of obedience.

[blu]

I had been reviewing many things that Jesus taught and the way He lived,  and compared thje laws and culture He did not recognize(behave).
I have to assume that Jesus would not break His own laws, God's laws , so there were laws that men established in God' s sted, just as Paul established himself an athourity and laid down a few edicts, Jesus did not ever imply. (I know I'll get an argument out of this , just hear me out. 
It also occured to me that knowing that the Bible is a culmination of men's assyembly,and not a complete work in and of it's self. all that God spoke and speaks, is not there.
  God continues to speak to us today,and give instuction into our daily lives,via the Holy Spirit Jesus provided availability to all believers.
And I know there is a danger of people being drawn off on tangents and cults with this statement but the fact is ,Jesus gave His instruction to the disciples to be guided of the Holy Spirit in Jesus place.
All early christians had, was the old testament and the Holy Spirit, but christianity fell into the same pit the jews did when Moses led them to the promised land. They wanted a king in stead of being governed by God.  Human nature tends to think some one can be blamed thus providing an excuse for living out side Gods governing,= sin.
  Jesus raised the bar of responsibility, and Paul lowers it again. grace. the saME AS THE JEWS DID WITH THE LAW.
  When they had brought the woman caught in adultery before Jesus, they broke the law.
According to the law, both the man and the woman were both to be stoned; where was the man ?
    Pauls charictor came from this same culture of compromise. . His emphisis on love may seem admirable but not accurate. Paul both a man from a political back ground, taught a political compromise, Jesus did not.
God deserves our obedience, not substatute simlitudes that men mimic with out the relationship of obedience Jesus taught, by His life by his word by His provision. this obedience is not to the letter of men's invention, whom teach for doctrinre the commandments of men.
   Sin reigns in a persons life, living with out the instruction of the Holy spirit. This is where the scribes and pharesees choose to fail, this is where christians choose to  fail.
  Accept a man is born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven.
   A man not yielded  or has given up being yielded to the Holy Spirit has no part with God.
the way is narrow, and can only be found through the continious guidance of the Holy Spirit, who teaches in Jesus' sted, and reaferms the things Jesus taught.
For scriptural references I give you Mathew,Mark Luke and John.
We owe God, personal obedience.

You talk about the holy spirit, yet you run paul down, MY, MY! Wasn't it HItler who said the letters of paul were unbiblical also?  I hope you stop banging your head against a wall.

[ela]

I had been reviewing many things that Jesus taught and the way He lived,  and compared thje laws and culture He did not recognize(behave).
I have to assume that Jesus would not break His own laws, God's laws , so there were laws that men established in God' s sted, just as Paul established himself an athourity and laid down a few edicts, Jesus did not ever imply. (I know I'll get an argument out of this , just hear me out. 
It also occured to me that knowing that the Bible is a culmination of men's assyembly,and not a complete work in and of it's self. all that God spoke and speaks, is not there.
  God continues to speak to us today,and give instuction into our daily lives,via the Holy Spirit Jesus provided availability to all believers.
And I know there is a danger of people being drawn off on tangents and cults with this statement but the fact is ,Jesus gave His instruction to the disciples to be guided of the Holy Spirit in Jesus place.
All early christians had, was the old testament and the Holy Spirit, but christianity fell into the same pit the jews did when Moses led them to the promised land. They wanted a king in stead of being governed by God.  Human nature tends to think some one can be blamed thus providing an excuse for living out side Gods governing,= sin.
  Jesus raised the bar of responsibility, and Paul lowers it again. grace. the saME AS THE JEWS DID WITH THE LAW.
  When they had brought the woman caught in adultery before Jesus, they broke the law.
According to the law, both the man and the woman were both to be stoned; where was the man ?
    Pauls charictor came from this same culture of compromise. . His emphisis on love may seem admirable but not accurate. Paul both a man from a political back ground, taught a political compromise, Jesus did not.
God deserves our obedience, not substatute simlitudes that men mimic with out the relationship of obedience Jesus taught, by His life by his word by His provision. this obedience is not to the letter of men's invention, whom teach for doctrinre the commandments of men.
   Sin reigns in a persons life, living with out the instruction of the Holy spirit. This is where the scribes and pharesees choose to fail, this is where christians choose to  fail.
  Accept a man is born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of heaven.
   A man not yielded  or has given up being yielded to the Holy Spirit has no part with God.
the way is narrow, and can only be found through the continious guidance of the Holy Spirit, who teaches in Jesus' sted, and reaferms the things Jesus taught.
For scriptural references I give you Mathew,Mark Luke and John.
We owe God, personal obedience.

When I got saved long ago, at the end of the Jesus movement, the teaching was different. We prized the gospels...not saying more then any of the other books, but as much or maybe even a little more. As reading what Jesus said and seeing how He lived was what we were taught was what Christianity was all about. We were taught that everything else revolved around Christ and His life and words. So, we spent lots of time there and essentially used Jesus words and life as a measure when trying to figure out the rest of scripture.

However, I value all of scripture and everything has it's reason and place....it is just learning how to see and understand how everything works together....which, I also have to say doesn't seem to be taught either these days, which urged me to write about "The Big Picture".....

I also have to say that JESUS Himself saves.....as nothing else is perfect enough to do that. Not our doctrinal beliefs or our behaviors or our works.....so, I personally will not pick at you for your beliefs. God will show you were you need and I need to be shown differently.

[mjrhealth]

See this word," WORD", wish it had never being invented. Everytime people read the word" word" in the bible, they take it to be the written leeter, something that God had put on paper, The only things that God ever penned was the 10 commandments, and something He wrote on a wall to a bad King. When Gods word is mentioned ,It is either His spoken word , or Jesus that it is referenced to not the bible, yet its what we have being taught and refurse to question incase we upset God even though to many it is not right.

As for the disciples, well, somene already worte about how they eher leettsr never meant to be taken to be scripture, if you are willing to believe the truth, yet why accept the truth, it may cost you friends. I am sure there are a few on this post who know what I mean.    Does it not say in the bible, that Jesus was the word come in the fesh", id not Jesus say, that scripture cant bring you life, only the words that He speaks, as for the disciples.

Gal 1:11  But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12  For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

2Co 3:3  Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

2Co 3:6  Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Are you going to now deny that even the disciples after getting it wrong fo so long." "get the behind me satan". finally came to the conclusion, that the only truth was in Jesus, and there teacher was the Holy spirit, you wonder why we cant do anything, its because we deny the Holy Spirirt, and the truth that is Jesus. if you believe that the bible can replace God, then God must be pretyy small. and I know He is not. You certainly cannot fit Him iside the pages of a book.


Glad to see more are coming to the truth, being a long time coming. Cant wait for the day the scales are lifted from our eyes and the truth is made manifest.

In His Love
                                                         

[Saul 25]

To love God is to love the word of God because God the Spirit has inspired those particular words to be written for our good. 
  The New Testament is God revealed in word form for our minds, when we read it with a desire to know the will of God then God Himself will help us to understand it. There is no separation of God and His word, they are one and the same.

[arleigh]

I was sharing with a friend in church today about what it takes to see the things wde d , walking in the spirit.
oil and water.
If you take a spunge and soak it in oil squeze it and then try to pick up water it is about useless, the same is true with the spunge and starting it soaked in water, it is useless trying to pick uo oil.
if you take the oil soaked spunge and soak it long enough in water, the oil will lift off the spunge with a residue but it will work after a fashon, and the reverse is also true .
We invest a level of concentration in an area and we are soaked in it thuroughly, any thing that is slightly challanging it, we build a fence or a wall to protect our investment.the more challange the higher and deeper the wall in reinforced. the investment into the wall is so great, dynimite can't phase it ,as a matter of fact it just causes the wall to be built so that not even the sound of dynamite can be heard.
At this point pride is so well developed in the wall it is their whole life.
Adam broke God's one law to him , and insted of admitting and repenting he turns around and blames God for the woman. wall brick 1.
Now that Adam has acquired knowledge apart from God, he furthers this wall in the training of Cain. resentment, not repentence, is their wall building.
Man sence has chosen any one else but God, for his input except for the rare fiew.
Let me leap forward here,
Jesus provided that man could be taught of God via the Holy spirit. but the Holy Spirit will not indwell a sin infested person . repentence ,forgiveness and subordenation to God are the prime prerequosits, Jesus examines, to Baptize in the Holy spirit.
Jesus expects us to be thuroughly soaked in Him His spirit His person. this is far more than intellectual studdy this is a real one on one personal relationship.
There is no such thing as a second hand personal realtionship through paper or another man.
I could tell you all God has taught me and it would be cercumventing His design,and  I would be disobedient .
To mimic me or any other man is wrong as well.
  If you soak your self in paper the dry depths of that expirence will not yield the living  person of God, whom want's to be a major part of your life. Paper has it's place as does water, but with out the Holy Spirit (Oil)we lack God's personal guidance we need them both, we can have salvation because of the identity of the Spirit indwelling, but paper has no enduring life and you can be saved with out paper. but not with out the Spirit. John 3;
  But God did not stop speaking ,unless you've put tape over his mouth.
sound insulting ? well much of christianity regards their Bible to be all that God ever has to say. Jesus said Matthew 4;4, , well you read it.
  Jesus also said " I only do the things My Father tells me to do,"
   There are no previously written scriptures to base all the things Jesus did, against, so where does He get off doing things not already written
    God continues to speak to us today.
Be thankful you can read ,early christians did not have that luxury. be thankful you have Jesus gospel . Early christians depended on the Holy spirit far more than we, because we have been taught to rely on men's letters to know God's will to mimic their life(Paul= be fallowers of me) .
  Sorry , I prefiir to be the born of the spirit fallower of Jesus , taught of His holy spirit and walk in obedience , thuroughly soaked in Jesus His written word of course ,but more importantly His Holy spirit Jesus designated to teach in His place.
  When those whom have fallowed Paul inplace of Jesus , face Jesus, on that day where will he see their devotion has been ?

[mjrhealth]

Nice post arleigh, but the luxury of being able to read is one we can ill afford, just look at what it has done, The people in the disciples days and before, had to rely on God, and then the Holy Spirirt, that is where their faith was, but now ,"technology" comes along, the written word. Now God has being replaced, no longer do men rely on the Holy Spirirt, the spoken word .

" The words that I speak, They are spirirt and they are life",

But upon our carnal minds, teh written letter

for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Thank God for His patients with men, for if He was anything like us, we would all surely be lost.

In His Love

[gospel]

If we cannot agree that the word believe and faith are some what interchangable , then please forgive me.
  James made it clear James 2;19 the devils believe and tremble.
We posess faith in many things having nothing to do with God , for instance you posess faith in your internet connection otherwise you would not be here.

They are only interchangeable if you do not know the difference!

People who do not know the difference use them interchangeably however the definition of faith is.... action based upon belief

Hence, here we are once again re-addressing the common mistake of citing James 2:19 out of context!

Actually all James was "really" saying I know what you believe by what you do!

He wasn't saying belief is unimportant, he wasn't saying believing is nothing

He was saying BELIEVING should lead to ACTION

Again acting on what you believe  IS FAITH!

.....Hence FAITH without works is dead faith! Dead faith in turn is NO ACTION based upon what one says one believes

So a Muslim who says he BELIEVES in Jihad..... IN FAITH blows himself up, if he does not, he proves he really does not believe in Jihad 

Likewise

A Christian who BELIEVES in love..... IN FAITH will visit the sick and the imprisoned or feed and clothe those who are hungry and poor

So James is saying SHOW ME YOUR FAITH...

or in other words

SHOW ME WHAT YOU BELIEVE BY WHAT YOU DO

Besides....

Demons do not believe in Jesus the way you do...do they? 

Hopefully you believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior

Obviously non believers and even demons believe Jesus exists

BUT

They do not believe in Him as Lord and Savior! 

See the difference?

In other words demons and unbelievers really DO NOT BELIEVE in Jesus!

Once you see that, you will understand my point which is that James is being terribly misquoted by people using his words to mean something differently than he was actually trying to say

[comfy]

A Christian who BELIEVES in love..... IN FAITH will visit the sick and the imprisoned or feed and clothe those who are hungry and poor

So James is saying SHOW ME YOUR FAITH...

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love." (Galatians 5:6)