Who is to be BORN again ?

[dan p]

 Hi to all , and this subject is all over the internet , that we are born again .

And all use John 3:3 , Except a man be born again he cannot see the Kingdom o0f God .

#1 , The  Context is what ?   It is Jewish !!!  Who will dispute that ??

#2 , Could it be talking about the Nation as a whole Check Isa 66:8  , where a nation shall be born in one day ?

#3 , And when will we see that Kingdom ?

#4 , Where is that Kingdom setup, on earth or in heaven ??


Then in verse 5 , to be  "  born again "  it has to be by Water  and the  Spirit  and does this mean that they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and does the Context reveal that ??

And I thought that we are saved by Grace in Eph 2:8 ??

Then in verse 9 , Nicodemus says , how can these thing be .

Then in verse 12 , Jesus says , If I had told Earthly things , and you believe not , How shall you believe , if I tell

you of Heavenly things ??

What is verse 12 saying ??

It , means  that Earthly things are here on earth !!

Heavenly things are from heaven , and these are 2 different thing and will not meet .

In 1 Cor 5:17 , says that we are new creatures or new creation in Christ , and that is different than John 3:3 , 5 ,12 .

To be " born "  is GENNAO , which is in the Aorist tense , which is in the Past .

It is in the Passive Voice , which means that God is doing all the work and not man !

It is in the Subjunctive Mood , which means this " born again "  experience  CAN  happen to all Jews , which we now know , IT  did not happen .

[winsome]

Hi to all , and this subject is all over the internet , that we are born again .

And all use John 3:3 , Except a man be born again he cannot see the Kingdom o0f God .

#1 , The  Context is what ?   It is Jewish !!!  Who will dispute that ??

#2 , Could it be talking about the Nation as a whole Check Isa 66:8  , where a nation shall be born in one day ?

#3 , And when will we see that Kingdom ?

#4 , Where is that Kingdom setup, on earth or in heaven ??


Then in verse 5 , to be  "  born again "  it has to be by Water  and the  Spirit  and does this mean that they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and does the Context reveal that ??

And I thought that we are saved by Grace in Eph 2:8 ??

Then in verse 9 , Nicodemus says , how can these thing be .

Then in verse 12 , Jesus says , If I had told Earthly things , and you believe not , How shall you believe , if I tell

you of Heavenly things ??

What is verse 12 saying ??

It , means  that Earthly things are here on earth !!

Heavenly things are from heaven , and these are 2 different thing and will not meet .

In 1 Cor 5:17 , says that we are new creatures or new creation in Christ , and that is different than John 3:3 , 5 ,12 .

To be " born "  is GENNAO , which is in the Aorist tense , which is in the Past .

It is in the Passive Voice , which means that God is doing all the work and not man !

It is in the Subjunctive Mood , which means this " born again "  experience  CAN  happen to all Jews , which we now know , IT  did not happen .

In John 3:3 Jesus was speaking directly to a Jew but that does not mean that his words are not applicable to us all. I wasn't there when Jesus said (for example) the beatitudes, but I think they apply to me. If we think that what Jesus said applied only to those people he spoke to then there is no point in reading the gospels.

We are born again in Christian Baptism whether we are Jews or Gentiles. That is when the grace that Eph 2:8 mentions is applied to us.

Yes, God is doing all the work. We cannot save ourselves. We cannot apply grace to ourselves. We cannot make ourselves children of God. We cannot enter the kingdom of heaven though our own power.

[dan p]

[quote au

In John 3:3 Jesus was speaking directly to a Jew but that does not mean that his words are not applicable to us all. I wasn't there when Jesus said (for example) the beatitudes, but I think they apply to me. If we think that what Jesus said applied only to those people he spoke to then there is no point in reading the gospels.

We are born again in Christian Baptism whether we are Jews or Gentiles. That is when the grace that Eph 2:8 mentions is applied to us.

Yes, God is doing all the work. We cannot save ourselves. We cannot apply grace to ourselves. We cannot make ourselves children of God. We cannot enter the kingdom of heaven though our own power.

[/quote]

Hi , and the Gospels , the Jews had the opportunity to accept their Messiah and they refused and were set aside .

But they did experience the Holy Spirit power that was prophesied in Joel 2 and be glad to respond to any question concerning the Gospels .   Why not respond to John 20:22 and 23 in my OP ,  if you believe that the gospels are for today    Would like to see your exegesis

[winsome]

In John 3:3 Jesus was speaking directly to a Jew but that does not mean that his words are not applicable to us all. I wasn't there when Jesus said (for example) the beatitudes, but I think they apply to me. If we think that what Jesus said applied only to those people he spoke to then there is no point in reading the gospels.

We are born again in Christian Baptism whether we are Jews or Gentiles. That is when the grace that Eph 2:8 mentions is applied to us.

Yes, God is doing all the work. We cannot save ourselves. We cannot apply grace to ourselves. We cannot make ourselves children of God. We cannot enter the kingdom of heaven though our own power.

Hi , and the Gospels , the Jews had the opportunity to accept their Messiah and they refused and were set aside .

But they did experience the Holy Spirit power that was prophesied in Joel 2 and be glad to respond to any question concerning the Gospels .   Why not respond to John 20:22 and 23 in my OP ,  if you believe that the gospels are for today    Would like to see your exegesis

Many accepted and were baptised into the kingdom - 3,000 on Pentecost day and many more afterwards.

I don't see John 20:22 and 23 in your OP

[dan p]

[quote author=winsome link=t.

We are born again in Christian Baptism whether we are Jews or Gentiles. That is when the grace that Eph 2:8 mentions is applied to us.

Yes, God is doing all the work. We cannot save ourselves. We cannot apply grace to ourselves. We cannot make ourselves children of God. We cannot enter the kingdom of heaven though our own power.

[/quote]

Hi winsome , where is it said , " christian baptism " ?

Eph 2:8 , and it says ,  "  for by grace are you saved  through faith , and not of yourselves , it is the gift of God .

Where is there  " christian baptism " here ??

It is a gift of God , so where is Baptism ??

Heb 6: 1 and 2 , says that the Jews and to FORSAKE  the teachings of Jesus and that means to forsake Baptisms , what say you to Heb 6:2

[winsome]

We are born again in Christian Baptism whether we are Jews or Gentiles. That is when the grace that Eph 2:8 mentions is applied to us.

Yes, God is doing all the work. We cannot save ourselves. We cannot apply grace to ourselves. We cannot make ourselves children of God. We cannot enter the kingdom of heaven though our own power.

Hi winsome , where is it said , " christian baptism " ?

Eph 2:8 , and it says ,  "  for by grace are you saved  through faith , and not of yourselves , it is the gift of God .

Where is there  " christian baptism " here ??

It is a gift of God , so where is Baptism ??

Heb 6: 1 and 2 , says that the Jews and to FORSAKE  the teachings of Jesus and that means to forsake Baptisms , what say you to Heb 6:2

I used the term Christian baptism rather than just baptism to avoid confusion with the baptism of John.

Eph 2:8. You can't just take one verse in isolation. Paul was not writing a manual of systematic theology, he was writing letters to address particular situations. You have to take many pieces of scripture into account to get the whole picture. For example regarding salvation Paul says:
..he saved us through the bath of rebirth.. (Ti 3:5)
Peter says  .....this prefigured baptism, which saves you now (2Pet 3:20-21).
However there have been enough Baptism threads without starting another one.

Heb 6:1,2 does NOT say to forsake the teaching of Jesus and forsaking baptism.
Therefore, let us leave behind the basic teaching about Christ and advance to maturity, without laying the foundation all over again: repentance from dead works and faith in God,  instruction about baptisms and laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
Baptism, laying on of hands etc. are the basic teachings, the foundations. Heb is saying let's move on from them to advance to maturity. It does not say abandon them. It's like Paul saying moving on from milk to meat. If you abandon the foundations the structure will collapse.

Dan
You have a theory about two gospels but seem unwilling to explain and justify it. You seem to want to dance around asking questions when you should be supplying some solid evidence for your novel theories.

As I said in the "Is there more than ONE GOSPEL?

[dan p]

We are born again in Christian Baptism whether we are Jews or Gentiles. That is when the grace that Eph 2:8 mentions is applied to us.

Yes, God is doing all the work. We cannot save ourselves. We cannot apply grace to ourselves. We cannot make ourselves children of God. We cannot enter the kingdom of heaven though our own power.

Hi winsome , where is it said , " christian baptism " ?

Eph 2:8 , and it says ,  "  for by grace are you saved  through faith , and not of yourselves , it is the gift of God .

Where is there  " christian baptism " here ??

It is a gift of God , so where is Baptism ??

Heb 6: 1 and 2 , says that the Jews and to FORSAKE  the teachings of Jesus and that means to forsake Baptisms , what say you to Heb 6:2

I used the term Christian baptism rather than just baptism to avoid confusion with the baptism of John.

Eph 2:8. You can't just take one verse in isolation. Paul was not writing a manual of systematic theology, he was writing letters to address particular situations. You have to take many pieces of scripture into account to get the whole picture. For example regarding salvation Paul says:
..he saved us through the bath of rebirth.. (Ti 3:5)
Peter says  .....this prefigured baptism, which saves you now (2Pet 3:20-21).
However there have been enough Baptism threads without starting another one.

Heb 6:1,2 does NOT say to forsake the teaching of Jesus and forsaking baptism.
Therefore, let us leave behind the basic teaching about Christ and advance to maturity, without laying the foundation all over again: repentance from dead works and faith in God,  instruction about baptisms and laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
Baptism, laying on of hands etc. are the basic teachings, the foundations. Heb is saying let's move on from them to advance to maturity. It does not say abandon them. It's like Paul saying moving on from milk to meat. If you abandon the foundations the structure will collapse.

Dan
You have a theory about two gospels but seem unwilling to explain and justify it. You seem to want to dance around asking questions when you should be supplying some solid evidence for your novel theories.

As I said in the "Is there more than ONE GOSPEL?