Who creates our soul?

[Lively Stone]

What I have said is the truth. If you want to believe a complicated mess, be my guest.

And what complicated mess would that be ?
Eccl.12v7 ?
Gen.2v7 ?
Ezek.18v4 ?
Where are your scriptures to support your belief ?

Old Testament:

Deuteronomy 6:4-5
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one! You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

'Heart' refers to the spirit, 'soul' is the mind, and 'strength' refers to bodily might.


New Testament:

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Lively Stone]

As we are created in the image of God, we are three: body, soul and spirit.

I am a spirit. I have a soul and a body.

The soul is the seat of the mind, will and emotions---the personality. The body ceases to live when its life, found in the spirit, departs. The soul goes with it.

Eccl.12v7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was ; and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Why are you adding a soul when it is not mentioned ? Don't you know we are not to add or take away from the word of God

Souls refer to people. It is our personality, our presence---who we are. I am not taking away from the word of God. I am explaining it in simple terms.

As I understand it soul IS the person. Adam was obviously a soul before life was breathed into him and that made him a living soul.(there is a scripture ref to dead souls , must look for it) So if a Being can be a soul in an inanimate state it can hardly be considered to have character traits or a personality.?? All these are contained in the spirit in man which returns to God when we die. Eccl.12v7. A soul is just not mentioned since it is a fleshly decaying body Ezek.18v4. It is the spirit that carries human information to God.

Yes, we often use the word, 'soul' to denote a person, such as in nautical speech---'All souls on board" etc. But the true soul of man is his inner self---his mind, will and emotions---all that comprise his unique personality.

Animals also have souls---personalities, minds. What sets them apart from man is that they have no spirits. That is what God breathed into Adam. When an animal dies, his body has just ceased to function. When a human dies, his body has ceased to function, but his spirit moves on and it takes the soul with it. We go to God, if we have accepted Christ, by whom we are known, and we retain our personhood before Him.

Friend , if you had scripture to support your belief we might have a valid discussion - but you have not !!! It is not your soul that contains your characteristics/personality but your spirit. That is what scripture says. Ascribing this function to your soul will also end in death with it. Your choice !

All scripture validates the tripartite makeup of human beings.

[Beta]

As we are created in the image of God, we are three: body, soul and spirit.

I am a spirit. I have a soul and a body.

The soul is the seat of the mind, will and emotions---the personality. The body ceases to live when its life, found in the spirit, departs. The soul goes with it.

Eccl.12v7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was ; and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Why are you adding a soul when it is not mentioned ? Don't you know we are not to add or take away from the word of God

Souls refer to people. It is our personality, our presence---who we are. I am not taking away from the word of God. I am explaining it in simple terms.

As I understand it soul IS the person. Adam was obviously a soul before life was breathed into him and that made him a living soul.(there is a scripture ref to dead souls , must look for it) So if a Being can be a soul in an inanimate state it can hardly be considered to have character traits or a personality.?? All these are contained in the spirit in man which returns to God when we die. Eccl.12v7. A soul is just not mentioned since it is a fleshly decaying body Ezek.18v4. It is the spirit that carries human information to God.

Yes, we often use the word, 'soul' to denote a person, such as in nautical speech---'All souls on board" etc. But the true soul of man is his inner self---his mind, will and emotions---all that comprise his unique personality.

Animals also have souls---personalities, minds. What sets them apart from man is that they have no spirits. That is what God breathed into Adam. When an animal dies, his body has just ceased to function. When a human dies, his body has ceased to function, but his spirit moves on and it takes the soul with it. We go to God, if we have accepted Christ, by whom we are known, and we retain our personhood before Him.

Friend , if you had scripture to support your belief we might have a valid discussion - but you have not !!! It is not your soul that contains your characteristics/personality but your spirit. That is what scripture says. Ascribing this function to your soul will also end in death with it. Your choice !

All scripture validates the tripartite makeup of human beings.

There is no scripture stating that the soul goes back to God with the spirit. This is a human fabrication leading into falsehood.

[Lively Stone]

As we are created in the image of God, we are three: body, soul and spirit.

I am a spirit. I have a soul and a body.

The soul is the seat of the mind, will and emotions---the personality. The body ceases to live when its life, found in the spirit, departs. The soul goes with it.

Eccl.12v7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was ; and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Why are you adding a soul when it is not mentioned ? Don't you know we are not to add or take away from the word of God

Souls refer to people. It is our personality, our presence---who we are. I am not taking away from the word of God. I am explaining it in simple terms.

As I understand it soul IS the person. Adam was obviously a soul before life was breathed into him and that made him a living soul.(there is a scripture ref to dead souls , must look for it) So if a Being can be a soul in an inanimate state it can hardly be considered to have character traits or a personality.?? All these are contained in the spirit in man which returns to God when we die. Eccl.12v7. A soul is just not mentioned since it is a fleshly decaying body Ezek.18v4. It is the spirit that carries human information to God.

Yes, we often use the word, 'soul' to denote a person, such as in nautical speech---'All souls on board" etc. But the true soul of man is his inner self---his mind, will and emotions---all that comprise his unique personality.

Animals also have souls---personalities, minds. What sets them apart from man is that they have no spirits. That is what God breathed into Adam. When an animal dies, his body has just ceased to function. When a human dies, his body has ceased to function, but his spirit moves on and it takes the soul with it. We go to God, if we have accepted Christ, by whom we are known, and we retain our personhood before Him.

Friend , if you had scripture to support your belief we might have a valid discussion - but you have not !!! It is not your soul that contains your characteristics/personality but your spirit. That is what scripture says. Ascribing this function to your soul will also end in death with it. Your choice !

All scripture validates the tripartite makeup of human beings.

There is no scripture stating that the soul goes back to God with the spirit. This is a human fabrication leading into falsehood.

Scripture speaks of the spirit and the soul using the same terms, so it would be pretty confusing for the average person to make swift conclusions about this, but having been taught the word for years, I can safely say that as the soul of man consists of the individual personality, it will go with the spirit when it departs the human body. Only the body remains on earth to decay.

It is by the soul that we know anything, that we communicate, that we express ourselves, and when we are in the presence of Jesus, all these faculties will be present.

[Beta]

Ezek.18v4, 20 says : the soul that sinneth it shall die.

If all souls return to God at death what happens to sinners who can not be in the presence of God ?

[Lively Stone]

Ezek.18v4, 20 says : the soul that sinneth it shall die.

If all souls return to God at death what happens to sinners who can not be in the presence of God ?

It means all sinners die.

Souls = people.

[Beta]

Ezek.18v4, 20 says : the soul that sinneth it shall die.

If all souls return to God at death what happens to sinners who can not be in the presence of God ?

It means all sinners die.

Souls = people.

Now you say Souls are people (also my understanding)
yet a few posts back you said souls are our personality / Characteristics which return to God .
Afraid trad christians are as clear as mud when it comes to body. soul, spirit as well as their belief in the trinity. Confusion all - so I will leave it there my friend. No offence intended.

[Lively Stone]

Ezek.18v4, 20 says : the soul that sinneth it shall die.

If all souls return to God at death what happens to sinners who can not be in the presence of God ?

It means all sinners die.

Souls = people.

Now you say Souls are people (also my understanding)
yet a few posts back you said souls are our personality / Characteristics which return to God .
Afraid trad christians are as clear as mud when it comes to body. soul, spirit as well as their belief in the trinity. Confusion all - so I will leave it there my friend. No offence intended.

The soul is the seat of our mind, will, emotions. It is where our personality shines out of. 'Soul' is the word that is used in archaic English to denote PERSONHOOD. We still see it used today, especially in nautical language, such as in the phrase, "all souls on board".

We are indeed tripartite beings: body, soul and spirit. It isn't confusing.

[Beta]

Ezek.18v4, 20 says : the soul that sinneth it shall die.

If all souls return to God at death what happens to sinners who can not be in the presence of God ?

It means all sinners die.

Souls = people.

Now you say Souls are people (also my understanding)
yet a few posts back you said souls are our personality / Characteristics which return to God .
Afraid trad christians are as clear as mud when it comes to body. soul, spirit as well as their belief in the trinity. Confusion all - so I will leave it there my friend. No offence intended.

The soul is the seat of our mind, will, emotions. It is where our personality shines out of. 'Soul' is the word that is used in archaic English to denote PERSONHOOD. We still see it used today, especially in nautical language, such as in the phrase, "all souls on board".

We are indeed tripartite beings: body, soul and spirit. It isn't confusing.

So what about S O S as a distress signal ?
Would that ask to save our personhood/characteristics or simply our physical person - as we are in the flesh ?
Which Gen.2v7 refers to = a physical body ( from the dust of the ground )Never mind what a person is like on the inside , they could be good or evil. All we would be concerned with is saving our skin. It is referred to Soul which can die - the rest of us is spirit which can not die.
It would be so much easier if people would refer to our make-up as Body and Spirit instead of confusing soul with both.

[Lively Stone]

Ezek.18v4, 20 says : the soul that sinneth it shall die.

If all souls return to God at death what happens to sinners who can not be in the presence of God ?

It means all sinners die.

Souls = people.

Now you say Souls are people (also my understanding)
yet a few posts back you said souls are our personality / Characteristics which return to God .
Afraid trad christians are as clear as mud when it comes to body. soul, spirit as well as their belief in the trinity. Confusion all - so I will leave it there my friend. No offence intended.

The soul is the seat of our mind, will, emotions. It is where our personality shines out of. 'Soul' is the word that is used in archaic English to denote PERSONHOOD. We still see it used today, especially in nautical language, such as in the phrase, "all souls on board".

We are indeed tripartite beings: body, soul and spirit. It isn't confusing.

So what about S O S as a distress signal ?
Would that ask to save our personhood/characteristics or simply our physical person - as we are in the flesh ?
Which Gen.2v7 refers to = a physical body ( from the dust of the ground )Never mind what a person is like on the inside , they could be good or evil. All we would be concerned with is saving our skin. It is referred to Soul which can die - the rest of us is spirit which can not die.
It would be so much easier if people would refer to our make-up as Body and Spirit instead of confusing soul with both.

The soul refers to the personhood, and his entity. Every being has a soul--even animals, most of whom have will, a range of emotions, and subtle personalities. But they do not have spirits, which God has given only man, when He breathed into Adam that spirit as His very breath, that sets us apart from every creature He has created on the face of this Earth.

Yes, the word, 'soul' does confuse people, which is why I take the opportunity to explain the difference between that and 'spirit', often.

[ajb4]

Hello again Beta,

I wondered if you might be willing to share your understanding of the verse offered earlier;

1 Thessalonians 5:23.  More specifically, why the distinction between body, soul and spirit in this scripture?

Also, if you please,  do you adhere to the doctrine of the Trinity?

Thank you for your consideration. God bless.

[Beta]

Hello again Beta,

I wondered if you might be willing to share your understanding of the verse offered earlier;

1 Thessalonians 5:23.  More specifically, why the distinction between body, soul and spirit in this scripture?

Also, if you please,  do you adhere to the doctrine of the Trinity?

Thank you for your consideration. God bless.

1Thes.5v23; And the very God of peace 'sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless 'unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The difference is that of a ' living body ' as compared to a 'dead body'...or 'a living soul to a dead soul.
To be honest I don't think man can always correctly figure out everything God is doing. The Bible says we can't and that is why we people have all our different beliefs. It takes GOD to reveal truth to us when He thinks fit....and we are to wait on Him.

No I do not believe in the trinity (though I was raised RC).
Jesus says : I and my Father are one. (He does not include the HS as a Person to make it 3) which I believe to be the 'POWER of God and can be given to man as many scriptures speak of. You can not receive another Being into your mind/spirit...only their spirit.
I generally let others have their views and opinions though quite firm in my own  

[ajb4]

Thank you Beta, for sharing your thoughts with me. 

I share your opinion of man's inability to comprehend all things Godly.  You stated you are firm in your understanding / belief of these concepts, so do you believe that God has revealed it to you to be correct, or that He has done so to those you know / follow?

And, if you please, how do view the events described in Luke 3:22:

"And the Holy Ghost descended in bodily shape like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from Heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased"

As it would seem evident that the nature of God is fully present in this description.

Also Matthew 12:32 " and whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come."

How would you view blaspheme against the 'power' of God, as opposed to the 'person' of God?

And, as for living within us, James 4:5 "Or do you think that the scripture says in vain, "the Spirit who lives in us yearns jealously?"

Does a 'power' possess emotions (jealousy)? And what Spirit lives in us, body and soul that we are?

Thank you again for your indulgence and patience.  God bless

[Beta]

Thank you Beta, for sharing your thoughts with me. 

I share your opinion of man's inability to comprehend all things Godly.  You stated you are firm in your understanding / belief of these concepts, so do you believe that God has revealed it to you to be correct, or that He has done so to those you know / follow?

And, if you please, how do view the events described in Luke 3:22:

"And the Holy Ghost descended in bodily shape like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from Heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased"

As it would seem evident that the nature of God is fully present in this description.

Also Matthew 12:32 " and whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come."

How would you view blaspheme against the 'power' of God, as opposed to the 'person' of God?

And, as for living within us, James 4:5 "Or do you think that the scripture says in vain, "the Spirit who lives in us yearns jealously?"

Does a 'power' possess emotions (jealousy)? And what Spirit lives in us, body and soul that we are?

Thank you again for your indulgence and patience.  God bless

Friend , I don't think we should make this discussion all about 'ME'. My views are not 'all-important. It would be nice to hear YOUR opinion and I guess they would be different from mine. however it would give us something to discuss ? ? ?  (but I would ask to keep them short and to the point  )

[Jimmy]

I have these questions for you, if you believe in annihilationism: Who creates our soul?  Is that creation good or evil?

Zec_12:1  The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:

Now to all those who believe in original sin --  Do you really believe that God who forms the spirit of man within him, forms a spirit which is dead in sin in the very outset?

[Merryone]

God creates man who possesses a soul. It is good, but it is tainted by the fall, but the spirit of man is void of the knowledge of God until the spirit of God awakens it.

[Jimmy]

God creates man who possesses a soul. It is good, but it is tainted by the fall, but the spirit of man is void of the knowledge of God until the spirit of God awakens it.

How, precisely, was it tainted by the fall?

[Merryone]

God creates man who possesses a soul. It is good, but it is tainted by the fall, but the spirit of man is void of the knowledge of God until the spirit of God awakens it.

How, precisely, was it tainted by the fall?

Since Adam and Eve's sin, all mankind now are tainted with sin. It can be said that it is in our DNA. No one is born knowing God as Adam and Eve were created to know God. That is the result of their sin separating them from God.

When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Romans 5:12

There is no argument that cab stand up to this truth.

[Jimmy]

God creates man who possesses a soul. It is good, but it is tainted by the fall, but the spirit of man is void of the knowledge of God until the spirit of God awakens it.

How, precisely, was it tainted by the fall?

Since Adam and Eve's sin, all mankind now are tainted with sin. It can be said that it is in our DNA. No one is born knowing God as Adam and Eve were created to know God. That is the result of their sin separating them from God.

When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Romans 5:12

There is no argument that cab stand up to this truth.

Jesus countered that idea with his oft quoted

John 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The spirit is not born of flesh.  It is not in our DNA. Adan and Eve cannot separate anyone but themselves from God.


Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
Rom 8:39  nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Only we, ourselves, can separate us from God - no one else and nothing else!!

[Merryone]

God creates man who possesses a soul. It is good, but it is tainted by the fall, but the spirit of man is void of the knowledge of God until the spirit of God awakens it.

How, precisely, was it tainted by the fall?

Since Adam and Eve's sin, all mankind now are tainted with sin. It can be said that it is in our DNA. No one is born knowing God as Adam and Eve were created to know God. That is the result of their sin separating them from God.

When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Romans 5:12

There is no argument that cab stand up to this truth.

Jesus countered that idea with his oft quoted

John 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The spirit is not born of flesh.  It is not in our DNA. Adan and Eve cannot separate anyone but themselves from God.


Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
Rom 8:39  nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are all born of the flesh and it is tainted with the curse of sin.When we are born of the spirit, that is wiped away.

[Jimmy]

God creates man who possesses a soul. It is good, but it is tainted by the fall, but the spirit of man is void of the knowledge of God until the spirit of God awakens it.

How, precisely, was it tainted by the fall?

Since Adam and Eve's sin, all mankind now are tainted with sin. It can be said that it is in our DNA. No one is born knowing God as Adam and Eve were created to know God. That is the result of their sin separating them from God.

When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Romans 5:12

There is no argument that cab stand up to this truth.

Jesus countered that idea with his oft quoted

John 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The spirit is not born of flesh.  It is not in our DNA. Adan and Eve cannot separate anyone but themselves from God.


Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
Rom 8:39  nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are all born of the flesh and it is tainted with the curse of sin.When we are born of the spirit, that is wiped away.

So you really believe that God gave you a spirit tainted with the curse of sin.  I find that absolutely unbelievable that anyone would think that of God.

[Merryone]

God creates man who possesses a soul. It is good, but it is tainted by the fall, but the spirit of man is void of the knowledge of God until the spirit of God awakens it.

How, precisely, was it tainted by the fall?

Since Adam and Eve's sin, all mankind now are tainted with sin. It can be said that it is in our DNA. No one is born knowing God as Adam and Eve were created to know God. That is the result of their sin separating them from God.

When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Romans 5:12

There is no argument that cab stand up to this truth.

Jesus countered that idea with his oft quoted

John 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The spirit is not born of flesh.  It is not in our DNA. Adan and Eve cannot separate anyone but themselves from God.


Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
Rom 8:39  nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are all born of the flesh and it is tainted with the curse of sin.When we are born of the spirit, that is wiped away.

So you really believe that God gave you a spirit tainted with the curse of sin.  I find that absolutely unbelievable that anyone would think that of God.

Yes he did. I was born a sinner, just like king David said he was. No one on this planet since Adam has ever been born without the curse of sin. It is only unbelievable to those who like to think that they are good, even though God tells us all that no one is good, and all of us have sinned and all come short of the glory of God. Either God is right or he's a liar and there are those who don't really need a saviour. That is a lie from the pit.

[Jimmy]

God creates man who possesses a soul. It is good, but it is tainted by the fall, but the spirit of man is void of the knowledge of God until the spirit of God awakens it.

How, precisely, was it tainted by the fall?

Since Adam and Eve's sin, all mankind now are tainted with sin. It can be said that it is in our DNA. No one is born knowing God as Adam and Eve were created to know God. That is the result of their sin separating them from God.

When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Romans 5:12

There is no argument that cab stand up to this truth.

Jesus countered that idea with his oft quoted

John 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The spirit is not born of flesh.  It is not in our DNA. Adan and Eve cannot separate anyone but themselves from God.


Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
Rom 8:39  nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are all born of the flesh and it is tainted with the curse of sin.When we are born of the spirit, that is wiped away.

So you really believe that God gave you a spirit tainted with the curse of sin.  I find that absolutely unbelievable that anyone would think that of God.

Yes he did. I was born a sinner, just like king David said he was. No one on this planet since Adam has ever been born without the curse of sin. It is only unbelievable to those who like to think that they are good, even though God tells us all that no one is good, and all of us have sinned and all come short of the glory of God. Either God is right or he's a liar and no one really needs a saviour.

Your statement, "Yes he did", ought to be the clue to you just how wrong, just how heinous is the concept of original sin.

[Merryone]

God creates man who possesses a soul. It is good, but it is tainted by the fall, but the spirit of man is void of the knowledge of God until the spirit of God awakens it.

How, precisely, was it tainted by the fall?

Since Adam and Eve's sin, all mankind now are tainted with sin. It can be said that it is in our DNA. No one is born knowing God as Adam and Eve were created to know God. That is the result of their sin separating them from God.

When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Romans 5:12

There is no argument that cab stand up to this truth.

Jesus countered that idea with his oft quoted

John 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The spirit is not born of flesh.  It is not in our DNA. Adan and Eve cannot separate anyone but themselves from God.


Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
Rom 8:39  nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are all born of the flesh and it is tainted with the curse of sin.When we are born of the spirit, that is wiped away.

So you really believe that God gave you a spirit tainted with the curse of sin.  I find that absolutely unbelievable that anyone would think that of God.

Yes he did. I was born a sinner, just like king David said he was. No one on this planet since Adam has ever been born without the curse of sin. It is only unbelievable to those who like to think that they are good, even though God tells us all that no one is good, and all of us have sinned and all come short of the glory of God. Either God is right or he's a liar and no one really needs a saviour.

Your statement, "Yes he did", ought to be the clue to you just how wrong, just how heinous is the concept of original sin.

There's nothing heinous about it, although sin is heinous. It is reality. Pride is what keeps people from realizing it. One correction, though: We are born innocent, but because of the fall of man, we are born with the curse of sin on us. Our spirits are born empty or dead to the things of God, until the Holy Ghost comes to influence us.

[DaveW]

I have these questions for you, if you believe in annihilationism: Who creates our soul?  Is that creation good or evil?

You have to define what you mean by 'soul.' It is used about a dozen different ways in scripture.  The most frequent use simply means an individual person.

[Jimmy]

God creates man who possesses a soul. It is good, but it is tainted by the fall, but the spirit of man is void of the knowledge of God until the spirit of God awakens it.

How, precisely, was it tainted by the fall?

Since Adam and Eve's sin, all mankind now are tainted with sin. It can be said that it is in our DNA. No one is born knowing God as Adam and Eve were created to know God. That is the result of their sin separating them from God.

When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Romans 5:12

There is no argument that cab stand up to this truth.

Jesus countered that idea with his oft quoted

John 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The spirit is not born of flesh.  It is not in our DNA. Adan and Eve cannot separate anyone but themselves from God.


Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
Rom 8:39  nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are all born of the flesh and it is tainted with the curse of sin.When we are born of the spirit, that is wiped away.

So you really believe that God gave you a spirit tainted with the curse of sin.  I find that absolutely unbelievable that anyone would think that of God.

Yes he did. I was born a sinner, just like king David said he was. No one on this planet since Adam has ever been born without the curse of sin. It is only unbelievable to those who like to think that they are good, even though God tells us all that no one is good, and all of us have sinned and all come short of the glory of God. Either God is right or he's a liar and no one really needs a saviour.

Your statement, "Yes he did", ought to be the clue to you just how wrong, just how heinous is the concept of original sin.

There's nothing heinous about it, although sin is heinous. It is reality. Pride is what keeps people from realizing it. One correction, though: We are born innocent, but because of the fall of man, we are born with the curse of sin on us. Our spirits are born empty or dead to the things of God, until the Holy Ghost comes to influence us.

It absolutely is heinous. The very idea that God would give a tainted, fallen spirit to us is repulsive if you even think about it a little.  That is the scourge of Augustine who invented it.  Our spirits are from God.  They are not tainted when given.  They become tainted when we sin.  That is why we have to be REborn, i.e.,  REgenerated.

[Merryone]

God creates man who possesses a soul. It is good, but it is tainted by the fall, but the spirit of man is void of the knowledge of God until the spirit of God awakens it.

How, precisely, was it tainted by the fall?

Since Adam and Eve's sin, all mankind now are tainted with sin. It can be said that it is in our DNA. No one is born knowing God as Adam and Eve were created to know God. That is the result of their sin separating them from God.

When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Romans 5:12

There is no argument that cab stand up to this truth.

Jesus countered that idea with his oft quoted

John 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The spirit is not born of flesh.  It is not in our DNA. Adan and Eve cannot separate anyone but themselves from God.


Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
Rom 8:39  nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are all born of the flesh and it is tainted with the curse of sin.When we are born of the spirit, that is wiped away.

So you really believe that God gave you a spirit tainted with the curse of sin.  I find that absolutely unbelievable that anyone would think that of God.

Yes he did. I was born a sinner, just like king David said he was. No one on this planet since Adam has ever been born without the curse of sin. It is only unbelievable to those who like to think that they are good, even though God tells us all that no one is good, and all of us have sinned and all come short of the glory of God. Either God is right or he's a liar and no one really needs a saviour.

Your statement, "Yes he did", ought to be the clue to you just how wrong, just how heinous is the concept of original sin.

There's nothing heinous about it, although sin is heinous. It is reality. Pride is what keeps people from realizing it. One correction, though: We are born innocent, but because of the fall of man, we are born with the curse of sin on us. Our spirits are born empty or dead to the things of God, until the Holy Ghost comes to influence us.

It absolutely is heinous. The very idea that God would give a tainted, fallen spirit to us is repulsive if you even think about it a little.  That is the scourge of Augustine who invented it.  Our spirits are from God.  They are not tainted when given.  They become tainted when we sin.  That is why we have to be REborn, i.e.,  REgenerated.

You can't blame God for it. He set the laws in motion. since the fall of man, every person born has been born under the curse of sin. There is only one way out, and that is through Jesus Christ and what he did for us at Calvary.

No one doesn't sin.

[Beta]

I have these questions for you, if you believe in annihilationism: Who creates our soul?  Is that creation good or evil?

Zec_12:1  The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:

Now to all those who believe in original sin --  Do you really believe that God who forms the spirit of man within him, forms a spirit which is dead in sin in the very outset?

As I understand it 'the spirit in man is our human ability to think and reason and is given to every person whether they accept God/Christ or not. This human spirit or mind empowers man to function in his/her earthly life.
The human spirit in man is NOT the Holy Spirit and has become polluted and pervertsd Rom.8v7. Therefore man will die unless he repents for the soul that sins shall die. The human spirit on it's own does not give us eternal life .God has to add HIS HS to ours upon our obedience to Him Acts 5v32.

[Beta]

God did not give us a 'tainted spirit...absolutely not !

But the spirit in man which is for our earthly life has the ability to sin and become polluted ....it is our own doing through free choice whether or not we want to love and obey God. Disobedience was /is man's downfall.

[Merryone]

The spirit in man is inert in the unsaved person. When we receive Jesus Christ as our own savior, he comes in to dwell in that spirit by His spirit. It becomes alive and perfect with his presence there and contains all the blessings and promises that come with salvation. It is the soul of man that is tainted, which is the personhood and the mind of man.

[Beta]

The spirit in man is inert in the unsaved person. When we receive Jesus Christ as our own savior, he comes in to dwell in that spirit by His spirit. It becomes alive and perfect with his presence there and contains all the blessings and promises that come with salvation. It is the soul of man that is tainted, which is the personhood and the mind of man.

Joh.14v23,24 seems to show there is a condition attached to the promise of Jesus  making his 'abode in man. It has to do with 'obedience and 'keeping the Word of God. That is again restated in Heb.5v9.and there is no getting away from that no matter how man squirms and wriggles against the Word.
How can man be 'renewed in the mind if he won't accept a new way of life ? 

[ajb4]

Hello Beta,

I'm sorry if it seemed I was focusing too much on your viewpoints. I confess that I do hold some different understanding of scriptures than what you have stated here, but I do not claim exclusive knowledge. Reason dictates that there can be only one truth, and it seems we are both searching to understand what that truth is. Knowing, in full assurance of faith, that the truth is contained in the Word of God, I am seeking to resolve these differences, and hopefully, benefit us both. 

I am curious if you might indulge me, as this forum is for nontraditional theology, with what denomination/sect/doctrine/faith do your theological viewpoints align?  (if any).  Please do not feel obliged to answer if you do not wish to do so. I think mine mostly align with an orthodox, evangelical, non-denom., Wesleyan, inerrancy of the Bible, sort of perspective -- awkward I know. I was raised an RC as well, but do not agree with their doctrine and conventions.

Thank you and God bless.

[Beta]

Hello Beta,

I'm sorry if it seemed I was focusing too much on your viewpoints. I confess that I do hold some different understanding of scriptures than what you have stated here, but I do not claim exclusive knowledge. Reason dictates that there can be only one truth, and it seems we are both searching to understand what that truth is. Knowing, in full assurance of faith, that the truth is contained in the Word of God, I am seeking to resolve these differences, and hopefully, benefit us both. 

I am curious if you might indulge me, as this forum is for nontraditional theology, with what denomination/sect/doctrine/faith do your theological viewpoints align?  (if any).  Please do not feel obliged to answer if you do not wish to do so. I think mine mostly align with an orthodox, evangelical, non-denom., Wesleyan, inerrancy of the Bible, sort of perspective -- awkward I know. I was raised an RC as well, but do not agree with their doctrine and conventions.

Thank you and God bless.

Oh hello there ,
thought you had vanished from these forums !
Well, as you can see there are some very strange claims to a variety of belliefs and truths all supposedly based on scripture....so I'm not sure mine would be any more enlightening.
I firmly believe that truth is 'revealed by God and none of us can work it out for ourselves...but neither is it revealed all in one go. I believe it is revealed as one puts it into practice bit by bit. If we don't begin to live the first basic belief there will not follow any more. God will not have His precious knowledge wasted or trampled underfoot.
I could point you to the website of my Church if you had a true interest but there are rather strict requirements like
keeping the Sabbath and annual feasts,
tithing, and
food laws.
These are not particularly favoured by most so we are not a popular Church.

[ajb4]

Dear Beta,

Thank you for your gracious response. My personal experience with 'popular' churches has not always been a spiritually fulfilling one. 

I perceive we are in full agreement with our understanding of the challenges in attaining God's truth. Still, I find the pursuit of His truth such a wonderful adventure, I can't help but inquire about the why's and how's when someone has reached a different understanding than have I.  As fellow travelers on that road, it seems ever more essential to cross reference through scripture, prayer and Godly counsel to maintain perspective and direction.  I suspect you might agree.

Your desire to maintain spiritual observances and disciplines to honor God seems fully praiseworthy to me. As long as the purpose of those things is understood in light of the scriptures, and not in an attempt to add to the already fulfilled work of Christ, I can find no discord. The church I attend maintains the sacraments of baptism and communion, with services conducted by scriptural exegesis, and independent weekly life group (bible study) meetings. We agree with the Apostles / Nicene creed(s) as stated in the registration portion of this forum.

I inquire of your perspective not for judgement, because that is not mine, but for understanding.  It seems that when we are forced to support our perspective, we can more deeply examine and understand it ourselves.  I am truly thankful for your willingness to share your viewpoints.  God bless.

[ByHisGrace07]

In reading the Genesis account of when God created the first man we learn what is the essence of a human being. At least the way God originally intended man to be.

In the beginning:

1)God said, Let Us make man in Our image, in Our likeness.

2)So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

More specifically:

3)God formed the man from the dust of the ground.

4)He then breathed into his nostrils the "breath of life" (being the Holy Spirit).

5)Then man became a living soul.

So from this we learn that man is a spirit, brought forth from the Holy Spirit who is life w/in us. As spirits living in the earth, we live w/in a human vessel; a physical body made from the earth. In order to function in a physical world. Having the "breathe of life" within us is also, what gives us our identity as one who bears the "image and likeness of God".  The image that God desired to be multiplied throughout the earth. But this is what was lost when man fell into sin.

We also, have a soul. Although, man was originally intended to be one in spirit w/God and one another by His Spirit, we each have a soul giving us our individuality. Our difference in personality, feelings, opinion, taste, intentions and will is an expression of our souls. Like w/everything we see in the creation, God wanted variety also, amongst us.

Now every human being has a body, a spirit and a soul. But not every human being has the "breath of life". Only those who have repented of their sinful nature, choosing to surrender to the will of God. In the process, receiving the indwelling of the Spirit of God (who is life), who in turn along w/the word (the Bible) direct our souls, hearts, and minds in our new life and walk w/God.

As for those who DO NOT walk in repentance, not having the Holy Spirit, life is not present w/in them. They're alive in the natural sense. But spiritually are dead. Remaining disconnected from God.

When you die, your body returns to the dust from where it came, but your spirit and soul continue...either in heaven or hell. It is because we have a soul that whether we are in body or in spirit we continue to have our individuality.