Papacy - right or wrong?

[Catholica]

Lol Catholica. Does It Offend You That I Say I Am Gods Son Because You Are Not But Slander Me? John 10:35,36 Galatians 3:26 The Man Without The Spirit Does Not Accept The Things That Come From The Spirit Of God For They Are Foolishness To Him And He Cannot Understand Them Because They Are Spiritually Discerned.

What exactly do you mean that you are God's son?  I believe that all the baptized are adopted sons and daughters of God, but not literally God's son.  There is only one Son of God and that is Jesus Christ.

Do you, or do you not, believe that you are God, Visionary?  It should be an easy question to answer.

[Visionary]

Read It Again Catholica. Galatians 3:26 How can you be Gods Son And Not Be Gods Son? You Are Speaking Like A Foolish Woman Who Has Never Known The Father!

[Catholica]

Read It Again Catholica. Galatians 3:26 How can you be Gods Son And Not Be Gods Son?

By adoption.

Galatians 4
4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
5 to ransom those under the law, so that we might receive adoption.
6 As proof that you are children, 4 God sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!"
7 So you are no longer a slave but a child, and if a child then also an heir, through God.

We are called God's sons because He adopted us.  That does not make us the Son of God.  Jesus is the Son of God, and we are not Jesus.  We are God's sons by adoption.

So I ask you again, do you say that you are God?

Another question... do you ever sin?

[Visionary]

Let Me Ask This Again Catholica. How Can You Say You Are Gods Son And In The Same Breath Say You Are Not Gods Son? Adoption Has Nothing To Do With This Contradiction That Comes From A Liar! Either You Are Gods Son Or You Are Not!!!! 1 John 5:11,12

[Visionary]

Romans 8:14-16 But You Have Not Testified To The Truth Catholica!

[Visionary]

1 John 3:1,2 The Reason You Dont Know Us And Ask Us To Introduce Ourselves And Slander Us Saying He Claims To Be God Etc... Is Because ... The Reason The World Does Not Know Us Is Because They Did Not Know Him! Jeremiah 35:15

[Catholica]

Let Me Ask This Again Catholica. How Can You Say You Are Gods Son And In The Same Breath Say You Are Not Gods Son? Adoption Has Nothing To Do With This Contradiction That Comes From A Liar! Either You Are Gods Son Or You Are Not!!!! 1 John 5:11,12

Visionary, whomever you are.  I challenge you to type a simple post.  In that post, simply type the words "Jesus is Lord". 

[Visionary]

The Funny Thing Is Catholica That Every One Of You Catholics Have Implied Is This: Unless You Wear A Long Flowing Robe And Hold The Title Of Pope You Cannot Be Sent By God. Interesting Thing Though... Those God Chose For Himself Did Not Wear Expensive Clothes Or Even Claim To Come From God. But Rather Lived As Strangers In The World Destitute And Without A Place To Lay Their Heads Wearing Rags And Not Riches. Therefore The One Who Belongs To God Hears What God Says. John 12:38-50

[Catholica]

The Funny Thing Is Catholica That Every One Of You Catholics Have Implied Is This: Unless You Wear A Long Flowing Robe And Hold The Title Of Pope You Cannot Be Sent By God. Interesting Thing Though... Those God Chose For Himself Did Not Wear Expensive Clothes Or Even Claim To Come From God. But Rather Lived As Strangers In The World Destitute And Without A Place To Lay Their Heads Wearing Rags And Not Riches. Therefore The One Who Belongs To God Hears What God Says. John 12:38-50

"Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit."  1 Corinthians 12:3

Now repeat after me:

Jesus is Lord.

[Visionary]

Mark 3:29 Assume what you will Catholica but know that the result is eternal contempt.

[Catholica]

Mark 3:29 Assume what you will Catholica but know that the result is eternal contempt.

You make things very clear.  The hate in your posts is clear; your hate for the Church and for the Blessed Mother is clear, your inability to say "Jesus is Lord" is clear.  You should seek spiritual help, and seek it soon, and I will pray a Novena of Rosaries for you this week, as well as a Novena to St. Michael for your deliverance.

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.  Amen.

O Glorious Archangel St. Michael, Prince of the heavenly host, be our defense in the terrible warfare which we carry on against principalities and powers, against the rulers of this world of darkness, and spirits of evil.

Come to the aid of man, whom God created immortal, made in His own image and likeness, and redeemed at a great price from the tyranny of the devil. Fight this day the battle of the Lord, together with the holy angels, as already thou hast fought the leader of the proud angels, Lucifer, and his apostate host, who were powerless to resist Thee, nor was there place for them any longer in heaven. That cruel, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil or Satan, who seduces the whole world, was cast into the abyss with his angels.

Behold, this primeval enemy and slayer of men has taken courage. Transformed into an angel of light, he wanders about with all the multitude of wicked spirits, invading the earth in order to blot out the name of God and of His Christ, to seize upon, slay and cast into eternal perdition souls destined for the crown of eternal glory. This wicked dragon pours out, as a most impure flood, the venom of his malice on men; his depraved mind, corrupt heart, his spirit of
lying, impiety, blasphemy, his pestilential breath of impurity and of every vice and iniquity. These most crafty enemies have filled and inebriated with gall and bitterness the Church, the Spouse of the Immaculate Lamb, and have laid impious hands on her most sacred possessions. In the Holy Place itself, where has been set up the See of the most holy Peter and the Chair of Truth for the light of the world, they have raised the throne of their abominable impiety, with the iniquitous design that when the Pastor has been struck, the sheep may be scattered.

Arise then, O invincible Prince, bring help against the attacks of the lost spirits to the people of God, and give them the victory. They venerate Thee as their protector and patron; in Thee Holy Church glories as her defense against the malicious power of hell; to Thee has God entrusted the souls of men to be established in heavenly beatitude. Oh, pray to the God of peace that He may put Satan under our feet, so far conquered that he may no longer be able to hold men in captivity and harm the Church. Offer our prayers in the sight of the Most High, so that they may quickly conciliate the mercies of the Lord; and beating down the dragon, the ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, do Thou again make him captive in the abyss, that he may no longer seduce the nations. Amen.

V. Behold the Cross of the Lord; be scattered, hostile powers.
R. The Lion of the tribe of Judah has conquered, the root of David.
V. Let Thy mercies be upon us, O Lord
R. As we have hoped in Thee.
V. O Lord, hear my prayer.
R. And let my cry come unto Thee

LET US PRAY
God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, we call upon Thy holy name, and we humbly implore Thy clemency, that by the intercession of Mary, ever Virgin Immaculate and our Mother, and of the glorious Archangel St. Michael, Thou wouldst deign to help us against Satan and all other unclean spirits, who wander about the world for the injury of the human race and the ruin of souls. Amen.

[Selene]

You make things very clear.  The hate in your posts is clear; your hate for the Church and for the Blessed Mother is clear, your inability to say "Jesus is Lord" is clear.  You should seek spiritual help, and seek it soon, and I will pray a Novena of Rosaries for you this week, as well as a Novena to St. Michael for your deliverance.

Wow!  There's a lot of posts here, since I went to sleep.  Imagine that!  He can't even say "Jesus is Lord."  How hard can that be?

[Visionary]

Yes that ancient serpent the devil called the pope jesus and the church a king and rejected the word given to her and became filled with contempt for the holy things of God and made her prayer to angels and to those in their graves and rejected the son for her appropriation of sin and failed to recognize the time the son came to her to turn her from her evil practices. Jeremiah 35:15

[Selene]

Yes that ancient serpent the devil called the pope jesus and the church a king and rejected the word given to her and became filled with contempt for the holy things of God and made her prayer to angels and to those in their graves and rejected the son for her appropriation of sin and failed to recognize the time the son came to her to turn her from her evil practices. Jeremiah 35:15

Sorry Visionary.  I know you would like to think that you are God and that we should follow you.  But we're not going to follow you.   We already believe in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.  We don't need to follow you.  We have Christ as the Head of our Church, 

[mclees8]

Yes Selene we are all Catholic but not all Roman Catholic.  this is not proof of the supremacy of the Roman church. Ignatius was not Roman Catholic. he was Bishop of Antioch and not subject to Rome or Peter. You don't see either mentioned in this do you  Roman Catholic papacy that shanghaied Christianity   did not exist at his time. The church then was the church in whatever city the church was. The church was not governed then by Rome or any church in Rome. Let any who are sent be true to his calling and not self seeking. Let him be of a pure heart and not self exalting. We are not exalting the clergy and the clergy is not self exalting itself as the Roman catholic church did. If Ignatius did not walk in this he already took a wrong path himself.

God bless  

There is only one Catholic Church.  

And that is what ?

True  there is only one church Selene. One universal faith in Christ. No denominations and No RCC. One faith in Christ just as it was from the beginning.   
God bless

[Visionary]

Our Father who is in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. Forgive us our transgressions as we forgive those who transgress against us. Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from the evil one. Thy kingdom be the power and the glory forever and ever. Amen. Therefore since this is how we are to pray... let those who practice witchcraft call upon angels and let those who are diviners call on the dead. For I never knew how true it was that the roman catholic church is the prostitute full of adulteries and blasphemies and evil spirits and the unclean until catholics began to speak! Revelation 17

[mclees8]

Once again... see that you all follow the bishop as jesus follows god is a lie! The church submits to christ-the One And Only True God And Faithful Witness!!!! Are christians slaves to men? He whom the Son sets free is free indeed! Again, I know Jesus said, Where I am there my servant will be. He did not say where my bishop is there I will be! How about you catholics who tell us all these lies from your popes sit down and actually read a bible? Moreover actually sit down and listen to what Jesus says and not some pope! Dont you know God gives the Holy Spirit to those who love him? Do you think he only gives the Holy Spirit to people in "influential positions" to make you their slaves to sin?

St. Ignatius, the one you are calling a liar was instructed by St. John the beloved.  He was ordained Overseer of Antioch by both St. Peter and St. Paul by the laying on of hands.  He was in his eighties when he wrote this letter and he wrote this letter and had it sent while being transported by Roman guards to Rome so that he might be fed to the wild beasts in the Arena.  

He is a Holy martyr of the faith.  


I would ask you who you were instructed by and who appointed you as overseer of right belief but I have a feeling that you will say that the Holy Spirit has taught you.  You treasure your interpretation of the Holy Scriptures above the interpretation of the Holy Scriptures who were instructed by the very men who wrote the very Holy Scriptures you interpret.  But by what authority do you interpret?  By what authority do you call St. Ignatius, Overseer of Antioch where we were first called, "Christians", a "liar"?  

Perhaps St. John the beloved and St. Paul and St. Peter and St. Ignatius' eighty years in service to the Lord (subtract 80 from the year 100 and ponder that reality in the fear of God and with trembling) were not as informed as a man such as yourself.  Maybe.  But do tell us why we should trust you, that you, above them, speak the truth and show us, not by mere private interpretation, that these Saints should be called liars.  





ICXC NIKA

Dear sir Do you think that just because Ignatius was a disciple of John that he was not incapable of error. How do you know that if Igantius could see how his statement had become so distorted and abused he might have torn his clothes

But RC's will use and abuse his statements until Jesus comes. he was not an apostle and there were many other bishops also but that did not make them infallible. Ignatius unwittingly set a seed in motion and just like apostasy it worsens over time until you have a full blown apostate church still abusing letters from  the early church fathers.

God bless

[Catholica]

Mark 3:29 Assume what you will Catholica but know that the result is eternal contempt.

Mark 3:29 But whoever blasphemes against the holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an everlasting sin."

This tells me that you believe that you are the Holy Spirit.

[Visionary]

Are you denying Christ=anointed one came in the flesh Catholica? 1 John 4:1-3 For by your own words you have been tested and found without the Spirit of Truth not just by myself but others who have brought the word of truth to you that you have cast aside for the rules of men.

[Catholica]

Are you denying Christ=anointed one came in the flesh Catholica? 1 John 4:1-3 For by your own words you have been tested and found without the Spirit of Truth not just by myself but others who have brought the word of truth to you that you have cast aside for the rules of men.

No, I don't deny that Jesus came in the flesh.  In fact, the ancient religions are all very incarnational, profoundly so.

1 John 4:1-3 (for reference)
1 Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh belongs to God,
3 and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.

I acknowledge that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

[Visionary]

It is clear you dont know what you are talking about catholica. First you claimed Jesus is the pope but Jesus is not the pope. Then you claimed the church is a king. But the church is not a king its a kingdom. Now you claim Jesus comes in the flesh but deny God gives the Holy Spirit to men. When will you stop waivering between two opinions? It will not be until you surrender "I" to God so that "I" no longer live but Christ=anointing lives in you! 1 John 2:26 understand the catholic church is not alone in this so it is not a personal attack against you or anyone but a heart felt desire to see none perish. Then read 1 John 2:27 and realize the scripture is spirit-pure water able to wash your mind and renew it in the knowledge of its creator and by faith receive the Holy Spirit!

[Catholica]

It is clear you dont know what you are talking about catholica. First you claimed Jesus is the pope but Jesus is not the pope. Then you claimed the church is a king. But the church is not a king its a kingdom. Now you claim Jesus comes in the flesh but deny God gives the Holy Spirit to men. When will you stop waivering between two opinions? It will not be until you surrender "I" to God so that "I" no longer live but Christ=anointing lives in you! 1 John 2:26 understand the catholic church is not alone in this so it is not a personal attack against you or anyone but a heart felt desire to see none perish. Then read 1 John 2:27 and realize the scripture is spirit-pure water able to wash your mind and renew it in the knowledge of its creator and by faith receive the Holy Spirit!

I never claimed that Jesus was the Pope, nor did I claim that the Pope was Jesus.  The Pope is not Jesus.  I never claimed that the Church is a king.  I do not deny that God gives men the Holy Spirit.  My beliefs are the same as the Catholic Church teaches.  It has never taught that the Pope is God, that the Pope is Jesus, that the Church is a king.  It teaches that men do receive the Holy Spirit.  You have been reading too many nonsense anti-Catholic websites.  They intentionally distort what the Catholic Church teaches.  Why not actually seek to understand what the Church teaches rather than going by what other people say it teaches?

I believe that God gives the Holy Spirit to men, but I also believe that those men who receive the Holy Spirit do not become the Holy Spirit.  These men who receive the Holy Spirit do not become God, that is, since the Holy Spirit is God.

For reference:

1 John 2
26 I write you these things about those who would deceive you.
27 As for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, so that you do not need anyone to teach you. But his anointing teaches you about everything and is true and not false; just as it taught you, remain in him.

[islanddogs]

There have been five main distinctions between catholics and the reformed church. It is important to find out what individuals think of these differences. JC Ryle wrote a book called "beware Churches" which highlights these differences, as an Anglican Bishop in the 19 C he didnt pull his punches, so rememeber the context he wrote in if you decide to read.

He sais they were:
1. That the Pope when speaking Ex Cathedra is not infallible, but that scripture is the final test of what God says to us. The teaching is Sola Scripture.
2. That the Priesthood do not have an elevated position, rather there is a Royal priesthood of all believers, based on the "torn curtain"
3. No transubstantiation. That is that bread and wine actually change to the body of Christ at Mass. It is at this point that the Holy Spirit dwells in us according to the teaching.
4. That the Church is not on a level with scripture, that is that Church tradition is on a level with Biblical teaching.
5. That the birth of Mary was a Virgin Birth did not happen. This was an 18 C vision apparently. Known as the Immaculate Conception, it is this that leads to the worship of Mary.

Not all catholics believe this of course, so you have to check. However the dangers of these teachings are self evident.

[Visionary]

Ok Catholics. Here it is... you choose whether to obey God or men. Come out of her my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues. Revelation 18:4 As God has said, I will live among them and I will be their God and they will be my people. Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing and I will receive you. I will be a Father to you and you will be my sons and daughters. Says, The Lord Almighty.

[chestertonrules]

Ok Catholics. Here it is... you choose whether to obey God or men. Come out of her my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues. Revelation 18:4 As God has said, I will live among them and I will be their God and they will be my people. Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing and I will receive you. I will be a Father to you and you will be my sons and daughters. Says, The Lord Almighty.

Do you believe that Jesus is God?

[Visionary]

Do you still not understand chester? When I asked you, When you enter Gods presence who is there? I dont just believe Jesus is God - I KNOW JESUS IS GOD!

[chestertonrules]

Do you still not understand chester? When I asked you, When you enter Gods presence who is there? I dont just believe Jesus is God - I KNOW JESUS IS GOD!

Here's what God said regarding the men he sent:

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Matt 16
19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."


What makes you believe that you can ignore God's instructions?

[Visionary]

Huh Chester? Do You Think I Should Become Like You And Be A Slave To Catholic Heresies And Ignore What God Says? Maybe you should know something about me personally. I was not raised in a home that taught anything religious. In fact the opposite. My parents told us as children not to go to church to do whatever I wanted but with exception not to hide it from them. Then when I reached the age of accountability according to the scriptures Jesus appeared to me several times! He saved me not because of what I did but because of his mercy! HOW IS IT THEN THAT YOU DO NOT OBEY GOD???

[Visionary]

I tell you the truth and anyone else who has ever seen the Lord will tell you the same thing... When you enter Gods presence YOU DIE! John 3:21

[Catholica]

Huh Chester? Do You Think I Should Become Like You And Be A Slave To Catholic Heresies And Ignore What God Says? Maybe you should know something about me personally. I was not raised in a home that taught anything religious. In fact the opposite. My parents told us as children not to go to church to do whatever I wanted but with exception not to hide it from them. Then when I reached the age of accountability according to the scriptures Jesus appeared to me several times! He saved me not because of what I did but because of his mercy! HOW IS IT THEN THAT YOU DO NOT OBEY GOD???

I doubt that Jesus appeared to you, simply because it seems to have made you think that you are God's high prophet, but not in a humble way but in a very prideful way. But you could prove us wrong.  Right now, you sound like a noisy gong because you have acted without charity. (1 Cor. 13:1)

Maybe you could write exactly what this vision said down for us, so that we might know this great vision of prophecy.  After all, we are not to hide our light under a basket, but to place it on a lampstand for all to see.  Matthew 5:15.

[Visionary]

It is written: Do not cast your pearls before swine. If you do they may trample them under their feet and then turn and tear you to pieces. Matthew 7:6 The fact that you demand proof catholica is the fact you do not have faith. 2 Corinthians 13:3-5

[chestertonrules]

Huh Chester? Do You Think I Should Become Like You And Be A Slave To Catholic Heresies And Ignore What God Says? Maybe you should know something about me personally. I was not raised in a home that taught anything religious. In fact the opposite. My parents told us as children not to go to church to do whatever I wanted but with exception not to hide it from them. Then when I reached the age of accountability according to the scriptures Jesus appeared to me several times! He saved me not because of what I did but because of his mercy! HOW IS IT THEN THAT YOU DO NOT OBEY GOD???

I provided the words of God for you.  Do you obey them?  Please explain what these words mean to you:

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Matt 16
19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

[Catholica]

It is written: Do not cast your pearls before swine. If you do they may trample them under their feet and then turn and tear you to pieces. Matthew 7:6 The fact that you demand proof catholica is the fact you do not have faith. 2 Corinthians 13:3-5

Visionary, I have faith in God, not you.  Regardless of what you believe, you are not God.

2 Corinthians 13:1b
"On the testimony of two or three witnesses a fact shall be established."

And verse 3 is referring to Paul, not you.

[Visionary]

And so because so many of you are focused on men and do not hear the Lord will make something perfectly clear to you... 2 Corinthians 5:11-17

[islanddogs]

Do you still not understand chester? When I asked you, When you enter Gods presence who is there? I dont just believe Jesus is God - I KNOW JESUS IS GOD!

Here's what God said regarding the men he sent:

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Matt 16
19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."


Chesterton not wanting to have a war. But we need to be clear on differences. My view as you will have noted is that we look at scripture. For me the fact that we have scripture is the point of Luke 10:16.

I also believe that the Apostles had a distinct role, now completed. and the loosed in heaven and earth is within scripture, We can know what our sins are. It is clear that we do not need a Pope/ Apostle to bring this to us, he has been brought.

I'm assuming the reference to Chesterton is because you are Catholic, do you think the post I made earlier is a fair reflection of our differences.




What makes you believe that you can ignore God's instructions?