Why Porn???

[mark s]

Turning people into objects, to fulfill your lusts.

That's what porn is all about, fulfilling the desires of the flesh without having to invest from the emotions or intellect, and without having to become vulnerable to another person. It's a way to vicariously allow the flesh freedom seemingly without the consequences or risks of the actual behavior. That's a fiction, of course, as it carries it's own consequences, often times just as brutal.

Pornography by its very nature cannot satisfy the viewer's actual need/desire, and therefore, if a person permits them self to look, the viewer will virtually always escalate their pornography viewing, both in quantity and "quality" (if I can use that word), and when there is perversion present, the viewer will, again, virtually always, escalate in depravity.

Physiological reactions to viewing pornography involve the release of chemicals in the brain that produce a "high", or "rush", such as serotonin, dopamine, and adrenaline, among others. The body's desire to replicate that chemical "rush" can produce "cravings" for pornography in the same way that the body's desire for salt can produce cravings for french fries.

Moreover, when the body's natural production of these neurotransmitters and hormones is altered by unnatural processes, such as viewing pornography, its natural production can diminish, leaving the person caught in a cycle of ever-diminishing natural production, and ever-increasing need of that unnatural stimulus.

This is the same process that leads many people into extended drug use. Many drugs do this exact same thing, as they mimic the effects of natural chemicals in the brain, causing the brain to reduce it's natural production, leaving the drug user to seek the drug in order to function, much less replicate the "high".

In this way, drug use and pornography are much the same thing, the primary difference being how the chemical changes in the brain are induced. But once those changes are induced, and the brain's natural chemistry becomes altered - compromised - the same results can follow, including the loss of inhibition, risk awareness, critical reasoning, judgment, and fear of consequences. This can easily (and often does) lead to self-destructive behaviors, as other considerations are discarded in the quest for stimulation.

The similarity of the brain's responses to both drugs and pornography has also been substantiated by modern brain-mapping technology.

In spite of the viewer's intellectual awareness that the pornographic images are staged, they are nonetheless perceived and stored by the brain as "real", and the messages contained within the images are included in the mind's perception of reality.

Instead of private, personal, intimate and loving relationships, the opposite becomes normalized. Animal behavior and biological activity replaces the human, as people become "redefined" according to the plethora of pornographic images. This is called "scripting", as the pornographic images are used by the brain to define expectations, and to project erroneous interpretations of other people's behaviors.

BTW, all of this is true of any pornography, regardless of the source, whether online, in print, in movies, or on TV. The internet, however, provides access to a high volume of material, and can accelerate the process. And furthermore, this is also true of pornographic fantasizing. What's happening in the brain is just the same. The root issue is indulging sexual lust within the mind. It destroys.

Actual emotions, perceptions, and desires become covered up with counterfeit feelings and perceptions.  Brain chemistry becomes unbalanced.  Our feelings of guilt, shame, weakness, and condemnation become overwhelming.  Pornography becomes a barrier against living our true lives, as we feel trapped inside a secret inner life.

The good news?

If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation. Old things are passed away, behold, all things are new - now all things are of God.

While all of this is true of the flesh - and as such, you may find yourself in a fight - it's not true of your born-again spirit. Deliverance is at hand. You can walk away. Oftentimes, pornography viewing is a person's response to something deeper inside, such as fear of intimacy, and when the band-aid comes off, the actual wound is revealed.

It may not be possible to really understand why you keep doing it until you stop for an extended period of time, long enough to begin to see how you really feel, and think about yourself and others, without the artificial internal culture of pornography.

For someone who has viewed pornography excessively over long periods of time, the sudden cessation may result in a withdrawal experience as the brain works to re-regulate itself. You just have to wait this out, as your chemistry normalizes.

Remember - as a child of God, you are forgiven. God does not chase after you to judge you, and condemn you, He chases you to help you, to counsel you, to strengthen you, to lead you into a life of freedom and righteousness, white as snow.

And make no mistake - He'll use whatever means He needs to, because that's how much He loves you.

Proverbs 14:27 "The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, that one may avoid the snares of death."

Love in Christ,
Mark

[Juggernaut]

Great information Mark.  While I was lifting weights today,  I thought of how the devil operates to destroy man.  The devil can not even come close to God but he attacks God's creation (us) because he envies the fact we have an opportunity make it to heaven.  What we must do is turn away from lusts of the flush and follow God's narrow path.  In the end it will be worth it   Porn destroys millions of lives and the addiction is strong only God can cleanse the mind from this.  God Bless!

[LightHammer]

Way easier said than done. 

[canuck]

Excellent post , Mark s !! Something all readers on this forum should
study. Bondage to any sin has roots much deeper than we can ever imagine.

Thanks for sharing this...

canuck

[Memphis Dwight]

I just -- I just don't know.  I mean, it seems that this issue comes up over and over here and at other evangelical forums.  

Its almost as if churchianity has been reduced down to a handful of over simplistic doctrines.  

If everyone reading this is content with their belief system in regards to "lust", pornography, masturbation, then thats great.  But if not, allow me to ask a few questions that may provoke you to expand your thinking on these things.

Okay so here we go.  Now most evangelicals would say that a man in possession of  Playboy magazine is in sin.  And they would go to Matthew 5:26-27.  But what some have not figured out is that in that verse, the greek word for lust is the same as for covet.  And then the same greek for woman is the same word for wife.  

So if we look at that passage translated with this understanding:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a wife to covet her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
And then if we use the minds that God gave us, we would understand that the passage simply means:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on (another man's) wife to covet her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

And since the word heart historically has meant the core of a man, his heart and mind, then we should understand that Christ was simply telling these Pharisees that all of the commandments were equal in value.  He was telling them that if they were going to break the commandment about coveting, that they were also scheming in their minds to commit adultery.  

Okay, so lets suppose a man doesn't own a Playboy magazine.  But lets say that he once owned many many many Playboy magazines but has since gotten rid of them.  But his memory is still good.  Is there seriously someone that will say that this man, if he is conjuring up an image from memory of some naked woman he is in sin?  Why?  You may be like Marc and say something like "WHY HE'S OBJECTIFYING HER.  HE IS MAKING HER INTO A SEX OBJECT."  To which I ask, where is any of this in the bible?  Where is there any indication in the Holy Scriptures that if a man is imaging a nude woman in his mind he is OBJECTIFYING her?  That smacks more of feminism than of the ancient religion of Christ.  +

And finally, for all of you that may still think that sexual thoughts are inherently evil and made clean only through the sacrament of marriage, of HOLY marriage no less, why is it sin for a man to masturbate but not to have nocturnal emissions?  He's thinking about it in a dream!  Why is a night dream about sex less sinful than a day dream?  

[DaleinTn]

And finally, for all of you that may still think that sexual thoughts are inherently evil and made clean only through the sacrament of marriage, of HOLY marriage no less, why is it sin for a man to masturbate but not to have nocturnal emissions?  He's thinking about it in a dream!  Why is a night dream about sex less sinful than a day dream?  

I think the difference is that we can't go to bed and then control what we dream about, or at least, I can't.  But, this brings up a very important point.  This is why we must be so careful of what we allow into our brains.  If these images are not in there, we won't have them being played out in our dreams.  Also, if these images are already in there, are we "feeding" that nature?  If we have been born again, we should be a new creature.  But, is it possible that we have "stained" that one too?  I take the position that we must do like Joseph:

So it was, as she spoke to Joseph day by day, that he did not heed her, to lie with her or to be with her.
But it happened about this time, when Joseph went into the house to do his work, and none of the men of the house was inside,
that she caught him by his garment, saying, "Lie with me." But he left his garment in her hand, and fled and ran outside. Gen 39:10-12

We must flee the devil in all his forms!

my two cents

[mark s]

Its almost as if churchianity has been reduced down to a handful of over simplistic doctrines.

Hi Memphis Dwight,

I think Christianity is a handful of simplistic doctrines.

The flesh is corrupt, cannot be improved, and is eternally condemned.
Trusting Jesus through His death and Resurrection rescues us from that condemnation, giving us eternal life.
His Life within us will produce His works through us, transforming us to be like Him.
These works are all expressed in this: Love God, and love others.

Is this not simple?

. . . but not easy, is it?

Okay so here we go.  Now most evangelicals would say that a man in possession of  Playboy magazine is in sin.  And they would go to Matthew 5:26-27.  But what some have not figured out is that in that verse, the greek word for lust is the same as for covet.  And then the same greek for woman is the same word for wife.  

So if we look at that passage translated with this understanding:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a wife to covet her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
And then if we use the minds that God gave us, we would understand that the passage simply means:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on (another man's) wife to covet her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

And since the word heart historically has meant the core of a man, his heart and mind, then we should understand that Christ was simply telling these Pharisees that all of the commandments were equal in value.  He was telling them that if they were going to break the commandment about coveting, that they were also scheming in their minds to commit adultery.

Let me ask you . . . is it the old, fallen, flesh nature that wants that Playboy magazine?  Or is it the new creation, the righteous and holy Christ-life nature that wants that Playboy magazine?

Okay, so lets suppose a man doesn't own a Playboy magazine.  But lets say that he once owned many many many Playboy magazines but has since gotten rid of them.  But his memory is still good.  Is there seriously someone that will say that this man, if he is conjuring up an image from memory of some naked woman he is in sin?  Why?  You may be like Marc and say something like "WHY HE'S OBJECTIFYING HER.  HE IS MAKING HER INTO A SEX OBJECT."  To which I ask, where is any of this in the bible?  Where is there any indication in the Holy Scriptures that if a man is imaging a nude woman in his mind he is OBJECTIFYING her?  That smacks more of feminism than of the ancient religion of Christ.  +

Is this love - the commitment to the well being of another - or self-service?  Can we be tempted by the memory of sin to commit that sin again?  Yes, I think we can.  Is that being tempted a sin of itself?  No, I don't think it is.  But what do we do with that thought?  Do we take it captive, to the obedience of Christ?  Or do we nourish it, cherish it, and return to our original lust?

Can a man see an unclothed woman and not sin?  I don't believe the seeing is the sin.  Does a man seek out to see unclothed women?  Why?  To what purpose?  If the purpose is sin, than that to him is sin.

Where is it coming from?  The new nature, created patterned after God Himself, righteous and holy, or the old nature, seeking to fulfill it's lusts?

And finally, for all of you that may still think that sexual thoughts are inherently evil and made clean only through the sacrament of marriage, of HOLY marriage no less, why is it sin for a man to masturbate but not to have nocturnal emissions?  He's thinking about it in a dream!  Why is a night dream about sex less sinful than a day dream?

Remember, the more you entertain lustful thoughts in you mind, the more lustful thoughts you will have.  Can we always control every thought?  I haven't been able to.  But in Christ, we have the ability to overcome.

Is a wet dream sin?  I don't know.  How much to we contribute to our dreams?  But what do we do when we wake up?  Consign it to the Lord, and get on with living in righteousness?  Or dwell on, and cherish it?

And finally, my brothers, be strong in the LORD, and in the power of His might!

Love in Christ,
Mark

[canuck]

And finally, for all of you that may still think that sexual thoughts are inherently evil and made clean only through the sacrament of marriage, of HOLY marriage no less, why is it sin for a man to masturbate but not to have nocturnal emissions?  He's thinking about it in a dream!  Why is a night dream about sex less sinful than a day dream?  

Good questions.
Masturbation (as a physical act by itself ) is not anymore sinful than a back massage. But it's what we do with our minds during that exercise that dictates whether or not we have crossed into sin. If we are able to shut out lewd thoughts and still bring ourselves to a climax, (quite possible, since I have done that), can we be accused of sinning? Probably not. I never felt any conviction or the need to confess and repent.

Notwithstanding, if while men masturbate, they imagine mounting the attractive girl next door, or somebody else's wife or any other woman, they move into either an act of mental fornication or adultery. As with Christ's assessment in Matt. 5:27,28 the lustful imagination/look becomes sin even as does the very physical act.

As for nocturnal emissions vs. a daydream, the latter is controllable by the individual experiencing that particular contemplation; whereas the night dream is not controllable. Ever try to stop an unwanted dream in midstream while asleep?  Perhaps there are some who are able to do this. But I have never found any measure of control over my dreams while asleep. In that respect, how can one be guilty of sin when a sex dream comes upon you without your contemplative will? And since you can't shut it down, how can you even categorize it as being sinful? God allows it for a reason, and I think the nocturnal emission is His way to allow a release of the backed up prostatic fluids that if not released from time to time in the healthy, virile male, will  cause considerable discomfort.

canuck

[concerned]

Is it not better to watch pornography than cheat on your partners, if you are sexually deprived.

[mark s]

Is it not better to watch pornography than cheat on your partners, if you are sexually deprived.

Same thing . . . imo.  Both are taking what should be your mate's and giving it to another.

[concerned]

mark s

I agree but in the real world, there often problems in that department, iyho do you think porn hurts us in any way. How does god view porn, has he accepted it as part of modern times www. Re we being unfaithful looking at porn.

Best wishes.

[Nathanael]

I think that God views porn as a corruption of the gift of sexuality. Something designed as an intimate expression of a loving bond between husband and wife is not meant to be used in such a manner.

I think its very harmful to marriages if either partner is viewing pornography. Its an invasion into a sacred area that is to be kept between husband and wife. Its a degradation of something very special.

If you are not married, it is still a misuse of a God given gift, and makes you party to the perpetuation of a pretty vile industry. You become one of its customers. Would you be happy to be a customer of a energy company that you totally knew was pouring vast amounts of poison into the worlds rivers? same principle, only perhaps the pollution of porn is worse for all.

[concerned]

Nathanael

Thanks for your reply I agree, but is not a male doctor entering a womans body, invading her private parts, losing her dignity in the name of medicine, is that not worse than watching porn. I'm sure it is.

loving bond between husband and wife is not meant to be used in such a manner.


VBW

[EJ]

Why not check out www.morethandesire.com

for another opinion, and true experience, with a husband's addiction to watching porn....

[Seva]

If a man's wife were having an emotional affair, then one might understand.

She does not have to get phyisical with the other man. The pain is still there.
She is disconnected from you. You are no longer her hero. been there, it is extremely painful and there is little trust left.

I would imagine that is how the wife feels when a man gets his needs met outside of the marriage.

[johnl]

Way easier said than done. 

All the posts in this thread seem to be very helpful as far as having faith in Christ to resist temptation.   

With so much temptation, including porn, it's amazing to me that marriages can last as long as they do.   It certainly helps to have men of faith that give advice on how to avoid or recoup from these temptations, even if it is a lot easier to talk about it than to actually avoid the temptation.

After committing my life to the Lord when I was 19, I could've easily gotten into a lot of ill-advised marriages, that might've easily led to letting my guard down, to indulge in pornography to fill the void of a dissolute marriage.   However, the Lord led me completely away from marriage, in spite of many strong romantic spells, 3 of which in particular needed very strong healing from the Holy Spirit.   Now I'm probably too old for the younger women to consider me.

At another christian forum, I was trying to use the movie "Inceptions

[asaracini]

Understanding of God's Word and of our own sinfulness makes a man very wise.

Thanks for posting this! You are right Drug use and porn are very similar. And since I have quite all drug and any other usage I will take this step too..!!

Thanks!

[concerned]

I find it difficult to accept porn is bad, when women are being internally examined by male doctors, surely that is more unethical than viewing porn. 

Drugs are another issue, the main problem being addiction and going to all ends to feed it, plus health, family and social problems etc.

[mark s]

I find it difficult to accept porn is bad, when women are being internally examined by male doctors, surely that is more unethical than viewing porn. 

Drugs are another issue, the main problem being addiction and going to all ends to feed it, plus health, family and social problems etc.

Hi Concerned,

Let's say you are correct about doctor's examinations, how does that make a different behavior OK?

Isn't this like saying, "I find it difficult to accept that punching people in the face is bad, when people are being murdered"?

Love in Christ,
Mark

[concerned]

Hi mark, I do not believe that either is ethical, but one seems lesser of the evils.

Looking at a PC monitor is not "Touching" man is put on earth to spread his seed and no profession will ever change that, or mans desires.

[Thankfulldad]

Hi mark, I do not believe that either is ethical, but one seems lesser of the evils.

Looking at a PC monitor is not "Touching" man is put on earth to spread his seed and no profession will ever change that, or mans desires.

There is no justifying porn...it will destroy; and has destroyed way to many lives and marriages...trust me...it destroyed mine.  I thought as you did...looking is better then taking it to the next level.  Regardless...if you look, you are taking your intimacy away from your wife; and trusting satan rather then God. 

God's word is clear...if you even look at another women with lust, you commit adultery...you lust and you cannot have.  It will prove itself time and time again...because it is God's holy infallible word.

[concerned]

Thankfulldad

My point being, please read this article.

A 1993 poll of 400 New Zealand GPs by Alex Thomson found that two-thirds of doctors admitted having sexual feelings for their patients. Four out of five thought sex with a former patient was acceptable and 37% thought dating a current patient was alright. 10% said genital sex was alright in some circumstances.

This is full proof as to why these procedures should be done by lady doctors, there is no such thing as a male doctor, he is a man in a white coat, pretending this examination has no effect on him because he's a doctor. On the positive side there are many more new lady doctors training, right now.

So how does the above compare with watching porn on your PC monitor, there is one vast difference imho. Looking and touching.........The later will effect your marriage more than watching porn imho..................

[Thankfulldad]

Thankfulldad

My point being, please read this article.

A 1993 poll of 400 New Zealand GPs by Alex Thomson found that two-thirds of doctors admitted having sexual feelings for their patients. Four out of five thought sex with a former patient was acceptable and 37% thought dating a current patient was alright. 10% said genital sex was alright in some circumstances.

This is full proof as to why these procedures should be done by lady doctors, there is no such thing as a male doctor, he is a man in a white coat, pretending this examination has no effect on him because he's a doctor. On the positive side there are many more new lady doctors training, right now.

So how does the above compare with watching porn on your PC monitor, there is one vast difference imho. Looking and touching.........The later will effect your marriage more than watching porn imho..................

If you are looking at porn due to a wife that is distant...she will not only remain distant but she will eventually leave you.  You are putting a band aid on a deep wound that is gushing blood and will continue to.  Put on a tourniquet (the Lord Jesus)...and pursue your wife with all purity and sincere love.  Purity is seeing your wife in all sympathy with God; touching her very heart!

I don't know your situation...so forgive me if I am missing the point.  I can only look back on mine...and know that I missed this big time. 

God Bless...

[concerned]

I am comparing porn, against real life situations and the reality of what really matters.

So when posters comment on porn issues !!!

IMHO, one real issue for married couple's' is the effect male doctors can have on the husband, when examinations their wives internally, this can effect their relationship, far more than simply watching porn. The husband is often not present.

I think posters need a more balanced view of the real world and what goes on !!!!!

In reality porn is insignificant in comparison with my subject line, in my opinion there are far more important issue's, out there.

The bottom line, does looking or touching differ, YES........

I would suggest you watching porn, did not finish your relationship, it goes far deeper imho.

Best Wishes   

[Thankfulldad]

I would suggest you watching porn, did not finish your relationship, it goes far deeper imho.

Best Wishes   

Yes...I am sure there were deeper issues; regardless...porn was my outlet instead of working to cure the deeper issues.

God Bless...

[concerned]

IMO there are far more deeper issue's, the mind/memory is layered with problems, some far deeper than others, its an accumulation of problems that lead to the end. Many things in life effects us, I think its called baggage and the reason for future relationship, success or failure, we all have it.

Sure I am right on this subject.

Peace to you brother.

[Thankfulldad]

IMO there are far more deeper issue's, the mind/memory is layered with problems, some far deeper than others, its an accumulation of problems that lead to the end. Many things in life effects us, I think its called baggage and the reason for future relationship, success or failure, we all have it.

Sure I am right on this subject.

Peace to you brother.

Bottom line...all we can do is trust the grace of God in ourself and in others.  Trust God first

[Seva]

My thoughts,

porn is adultery.

Committing adultery will not enhance your marriage.

Adultery could very well be the cause of divorce, the only cause in some cases.

A pap smear generally does not turn women on. To the woman, there would be no sin. The only sin would be on the male doctors part if he had a corrupt mind.

Not all men wrestle with the same sexual sins if any at all. If this were the case, dads should not help out with the wife's chores by helping their young children baths.

not trying to slam anyone, just discussing. blessings.

[concerned]

seva, how can you compare looking with touching, there has to be a difference.


Your comment, A pap smear generally does not turn women on. To the woman, there would be no sin. The only sin would be on the male doctors part if he had a corrupt mind.

Man is put on earth to spread his seed, a doctor is no different from any other man, his mind is corrupt in his job, entering a female body, either with speculum or finger/fingers, how can he not have a corrupt mind entering a female sexual organ in that way.

My thoughts, Porn is viewing only, doctors view and feel, both porn viewers and doctors look at the same thing, but the doctor interacts. I draw your attention to my previous post.

Man is man in any guise.

[Seva]

i have seen my four children being born.

i was looking straight into the V. i was in no way turned on. my concern was for was for the mom and the baby. This was before God set me free from lust and porn.

Concerned, I can see your point as well, but i'm not convinced that all male gynocologists have an evil motive. I'm sure there are those who do.

[concerned]

seva, the same here I was present at all births, my point, certain things should be done by lady doctors, unfortunately our culture allows men, until such time as we stop acting like sheep' following others. women allow these procedures because their friends, family do and its become accepted, I doubt many have thought exactly what they are allowing, as its an accepted medical procedure, by many not all. There are many men with my views. The problem being' men do not talk about problems that effect them. Women accept things more readily and don't think/worry. IMO they need to consider the effects on their partner, who is often not present, during these exams.

We all need help from time to time, thanks for your replies.

Peace be with you.

[mark s]

Hi mark, I do not believe that either is ethical, but one seems lesser of the evils.

Looking at a PC monitor is not "Touching" man is put on earth to spread his seed and no profession will ever change that, or mans desires.

Hi Concerned,

"Spread his seed"?  Says who?

Genesis 2:24  "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."

The "two" shall be come one flesh.  God's design for man and woman is one man with one woman.

And these desires, would you be speaking of the desires of the fallen, corrupt flesh?  Or the desires of the spirit of the new creation?  I would think the former, not the latter.  And if that is so, well, are we not to put that old man to death?

Love in Christ,
Mark

[mark s]

I am comparing porn, against real life situations and the reality of what really matters.

So when posters comment on porn issues !!!

However, a person's involvement with pornography is a 'real life situation'.

One of the real problems with pornography is society's overall perception that it's "not so bad". 

Again, I don't dispute with you over having a doctor of your own gender.  Of course, with the rising acceptance of homosexuality, this may also carry the same risk.

But that has no relevance to whether pornography is destructive or not.  Again, your argument is like saying it's OK to swallow some poison, because there are worse poisons out there. 

But as a man married for over 20 years, I have no hesitation in saying that whether or not I view pornography has a greater effect on my marriage then the gender of my wife's doctor.  To my mind, there is no comparison between these. 

Love in Christ,
Mark

[mark s]

seva, how can you compare looking with touching, there has to be a difference.

According to Jesus, there is not a difference.

Man is put on earth to spread his seed,

Again, I dispute the validity of this statement.

[concerned]

marks, you have to look at the real world and what is happening, rather than what should happen. I am a married man for 40 years. The comparison is totally different. One looks and the other looks and touches a part of the body shared by married or partnered couples. Logically speaking IMHO porn has to be the lesser of the two evils.

Just because a medical procedure is accepted by society' because of its past history and acceptance by women, who follow others, does not make it right, in biblical times did mans wife undergo these obtrusive personal examination by men.

IMHO we need to look at the reality of what is happening in today's society and consider the effects, rather than accept things, because our friend family and society does.

One has to be suspicious of any man undertaking that kind of work, man will spread his seed, that is how the world goes round, would god send a stallion below because he procreated with different mares, or if he watched his brother procreate with another mare. We all share the same planet. I am not saying we should un-faithful!