Men - married...but still "burning"

[chosenone]

Phoebe, you are a well known man hater. The verse quoted is pretty clear and so are your feelings: Men are bad because they want to have sex.

God gave men a sex drive and I believe one of the reasons he created marriage was to provide an outlet for this. One of the reasons he gave men this drive was so that they would seek intimacy with their wives. Sex is a good thing and to men it feels like a necessary thing. Women shouldn't withold it.

Not being a man, nor having any interest in understanding male feelings regarding this I wouldn't expect you to understand. It almost feels like you can't breathe.

You read the Bible however you want to suit your needs.

Whether phoebe hates men or not I am not sure, but she definately had a real downer on them.I am sure there are reasons  for that but it isnt at all helpful, and it is glaringly obvious.

[phoebe]

Phoebe, you are a well known man hater. The verse quoted is pretty clear and so are your feelings: Men are bad because they want to have sex.

God gave men a sex drive and I believe one of the reasons he created marriage was to provide an outlet for this. One of the reasons he gave men this drive was so that they would seek intimacy with their wives. Sex is a good thing and to men it feels like a necessary thing. Women shouldn't withold it.

Not being a man, nor having any interest in understanding male feelings regarding this I wouldn't expect you to understand. It almost feels like you can't breathe.

You read the Bible however you want to suit your needs.

Your armchair psychoanalysis of me ("man hater") is not permissible.  It's also wrong.  Flat out.  "well known"?  Really.  Who on this board knows me personally that can verify that statement to you?  No one. Who is qualified to make such a diagnosis?  No one.  Not even Doc Roberson.

Who is the one in a happy, satisfying marriage, you...or me?  Me.  Not you.  Need I say more?

[phoebe]

BTW, "fulfill his duty" was a reference to sex for the purpose of producing a legal heir.  That's all.

BCV?  Care to expand on this?

1 Cor. 7:3 - The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.  (NAS)

Did you want the whole study on food, shelter and marital rights?  That's a big study, and I doubt that anyone here is really interested. 

[phoebe]

Phoebe, you are a well known man hater. The verse quoted is pretty clear and so are your feelings: Men are bad because they want to have sex.

God gave men a sex drive and I believe one of the reasons he created marriage was to provide an outlet for this. One of the reasons he gave men this drive was so that they would seek intimacy with their wives. Sex is a good thing and to men it feels like a necessary thing. Women shouldn't withold it.

Not being a man, nor having any interest in understanding male feelings regarding this I wouldn't expect you to understand. It almost feels like you can't breathe.

You read the Bible however you want to suit your needs.

Nice thoughts.  Lovely philosophy.  "How's that workin' for ya?"

Sir, you seem to think the only reason women don't have sex is an act of punishment or revenge.  I see this by your use of the word "withhold".  Not so.  There are many reasons, if men would care to investigate.  It's self-preservation, self-protecting.  Not always from their husbands, but sometimes it is.  Is this too complicated for you?

[Some] Men have yet to learn to let God fulfill their needs, so all their seeking is in human flesh.  Indeed, I think they believe He cannot.  Is this not so?  Why else so much dependency on and obsession of a human being?

" You read the Bible however you want to suit your needs."

Don't make this statement again.  I do more than just a light cursory or literal modern culture reading.  I actually study in full context to find out what was being said to the people who heard it.  The result is not always what tradition has taught, or what is comfortable to us.  We have to deal with it.  Whatever you get out of 1 Cor.  MUST flow through the sieve of "love each other as I have love you."  Must.  There is no way around it. If it doesn't flow, then it is in conflict with "love each other" and indicates their is something wrong with our interpretation/application/understanding.    Demanding and expecting sex does not flow.  Commanding sex does not flow.  It clogs and chokes.  It uses, abuses.  Sex is a gift, to be loved and cherished and used wisely.  It does not, was never intended to, replace God, to become an idol.  

[chosenone]

Phoebe, a lot of bitterness towards men comes over in many of your posts.
What you said to carwhisperer was totally uncalled for and cruel.     

[chosenone]

Phoebe, you are a well known man hater. The verse quoted is pretty clear and so are your feelings: Men are bad because they want to have sex.

God gave men a sex drive and I believe one of the reasons he created marriage was to provide an outlet for this. One of the reasons he gave men this drive was so that they would seek intimacy with their wives. Sex is a good thing and to men it feels like a necessary thing. Women shouldn't withold it.

Not being a man, nor having any interest in understanding male feelings regarding this I wouldn't expect you to understand. It almost feels like you can't breathe.

You read the Bible however you want to suit your needs.

Your armchair psychoanalysis of me ("man hater") is not permissible.  It's also wrong.  Flat out.  "well known"?  Really.  Who on this board knows me personally that can verify that statement to you?  No one. Who is qualified to make such a diagnosis?  No one.  Not even Doc Roberson.

Who is the one in a happy, satisfying marriage, you...or me?  Me.  Not you.  Need I say more?

Anyone, whatever the state of their marriage, or even if they are single, can read what God says, and is allowed to have an opinion based on that, without having their marriage attacked.

[chosenone]

I swear it is all these crazy topics that just make me even more glad I am not married!

And, Phoebe, you aren't a man hater but you know better than to listen to that twaddle anyway.

Dont let it put you off. I know some brilliant marriages where each spouse tries to love and please their spouse and obey God.  I just find it very sad where one spouse makes all the effort and the other seems not to bother, or even care much about their spouses needs. There are some relationships where one does all the giving and one all the taking.A friend of mine has just ended his relationship with a woman like that(a taker), and not before time either, they were getting married in a few months.Saved himself a lot of grief.

[DCR]

BTW, "fulfill his duty" was a reference to sex for the purpose of producing a legal heir.  That's all.

BCV?  Care to expand on this?

1 Cor. 7:3 - The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.  (NAS)

Did you want the whole study on food, shelter and marital rights?  That's a big study, and I doubt that anyone here is really interested.  

No need to get into that big study.  The immediate context of the passage is not that hard to understand.


1 Corinthians 7
1 Now for the matters you wrote about: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.

[JMT]

BTW, "fulfill his duty" was a reference to sex for the purpose of producing a legal heir.  That's all.

BCV?  Care to expand on this?

1 Cor. 7:3 - The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband.  (NAS)

Did you want the whole study on food, shelter and marital rights?  That's a big study, and I doubt that anyone here is really interested.  

No need to get into that big study.  The immediate context of the passage is not that hard to understand.


1 Corinthians 7
1 Now for the matters you wrote about: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.

[JMT]

Sir, you seem to think the only reason women don't have sex is an act of punishment or revenge.  I see this by your use of the word "withhold".  Not so.  There are many reasons, if men would care to investigate.  It's self-preservation, self-protecting.  Not always from their husbands, but sometimes it is.  Is this too complicated for you?

[Some] Men have yet to learn to let God fulfill their needs, so all their seeking is in human flesh.  Indeed, I think they believe He cannot.  Is this not so?  Why else so much dependency on and obsession of a human being?

This seems inconsistent to me...

Women that don't have sex do it for many reasons: self preservation, self protecting...

Men need to learn to let God fulfill their needs...

If we are going to treat others with consistency, shouldn't the women who feel the need to self preserve and self protect (if its not about the dh, but something from their past and he was innocent of) do the same?  Shouldn't they learn to lean on the Lord and cast their fears upon Him so that they no longer feel the need to protect themselves?(let God do it IOW)  I see the need to protect self at all cost even from someone who is innocent as being just as obesessed and dependant on a human being...the human being of self.

[phoebe]

Sir, you seem to think the only reason women don't have sex is an act of punishment or revenge.  I see this by your use of the word "withhold".  Not so.  There are many reasons, if men would care to investigate.  It's self-preservation, self-protecting.  Not always from their husbands, but sometimes it is.  Is this too complicated for you?

[Some] Men have yet to learn to let God fulfill their needs, so all their seeking is in human flesh.  Indeed, I think they believe He cannot.  Is this not so?  Why else so much dependency on and obsession of a human being?

This seems inconsistent to me...

Women that don't have sex do it for many reasons: self preservation, self protecting...

Men need to learn to let God fulfill their needs...

If we are going to treat others with consistency, shouldn't the women who feel the need to self preserve and self protect (if its not about the dh, but something from their past and he was innocent of) do the same?  Shouldn't they learn to lean on the Lord and cast their fears upon Him so that they no longer feel the need to protect themselves?(let God do it IOW)  I see the need to protect self at all cost even from someone who is innocent as being just as obesessed and dependant on a human being...the human being of self.

It isn't inconsistent at all.  Yes, it's true for both.  Women learn to fill with God and release the need for sex.  Men seem unwilling to go that far.  The motive is different.  Generally, men just want to get satisfaction and release.  To them, getting that is the filling of God.  But is it?  Isn't that seeking God with an agenda for self-satisfaction?  For women who avoid it, it's about things much deeper than a physical desire.  It involves the WHOLE woman.  There is so much behind a woman who avoids sex.  And most of the time it is not punishment, or "withholding".  A woman seeks peace.  Does her mate not desire that for her?  Whether he is the source or not, doesn't he want peace for her??  God does.


Paul said it was better to what?  Not touch a woman.  Then he makes allowances for their weaknesses.  His word: weaknesses.  Shouldn't we be seeking to be stronger in faith, in spirit, in body?  Not yielding to and feeding that weakness?  Do men ever think about these things?

We've come a long way from the Garden where we God designed us to become one.  We still seek self rather than God.  That's what I see.

[phoebe]

Hebrews 13:4 says the marriage bed is to be amiantos, "undefiled", unsoiled, "free from that by which the nature of a thing is deformed and debased, or its force and vigour impaired"

Marriage and everything in it is honorable.  It is to be treated with respect, with agape love, with self-sacrifice. 

And the preceding vs. 3b: "...Take thought for those who have been badly treated as if it were happening to you in person."



The call for godliness is not easy.  But it's still there.  We can do anything through Christ.  Or we can't.

[Thankfulldad]

Men seem unwilling to go that far.  The motive is different.  Generally, men just want to get satisfaction and release.  To them, getting that is the filling of God.

Wow...as a man, I am offended.  It goes way deeper then that my dear friend...it is becoming one with my wife, truly one!  You have a warped view of men....

[chosenone]

Men seem unwilling to go that far.  The motive is different.  Generally, men just want to get satisfaction and release.  To them, getting that is the filling of God.

Wow...as a man, I am offended.  It goes way deeper then that my dear friend...it is becoming one with my wife, truly one!  You have a warped view of men....

Totally agree, what a rediculous think to say.Phoebe, I feel sorry for you, you have obviously met some bad men who have influenced your perceptions. MY dad was a womaniser who had affairs, but despite that i know that many men want to have sex through love and a mutual joining, NOT just for the physical release. That is a very judgemental thing to say, and in my experience, not true.

[phoebe]

Men seem unwilling to go that far.  The motive is different.  Generally, men just want to get satisfaction and release.  To them, getting that is the filling of God.

Wow...as a man, I am offended.  It goes way deeper then that my dear friend...it is becoming one with my wife, truly one!  You have a warped view of men....

You are one of the "generally" then, if you are offended?  No, that isn't what you meant.  But maybe what you said.  Being "truly one" is so much more than a physical act.  It's part of it, definitely, but it does not define it.  The fact that you think it does says a lot.

I've had some bad experiences, true.†  But those do not color my view of all men.  Men color it for me.  I draw conclusions about men from what what they say and what they do.  In this forum the men say it themselves.  I don't have to.  I said "most", and that may be because those who think and act otherwise are too silent and those who are self-centered, selfish, and not seeking God's place in their emptiness are too vocal.  Often, even "usually", those are the ones who get angry with me for pointing out these things.  Sometimes they are not accurate conclusions, but sometimes they are dead on.  An introspective look might be a good thing, might bring God's filling.  But it seems one would rather just point fingers and accuse one of being a "man hater"  (that one always make me laugh), or as you said, "warped" in my thinking (another good belly laugh), than seek God's Face. 

If absence of sex brings peace to one's wife, how many husbands are willing to say, "Please, Father, remove from me all desire for sex for the sake of my wife"??  There are a few who have posted here who would say this prayer.  I see their agape in their words.  For them, I ask God to restore physical intimacy in their marriage, but only if it is His Will.  For the rest...keep seeking God first.  He is our Sustainer and our Healer.

When necessary, one can have intimacy in marriage without sex.  It is possible.  Maybe no one told the men.



†  In my first marriage, I was laid up in a hospital bed in traction for weeks following a bad car-motorcycle accident.  My husband dealt with his "needs" in two ways:  1) He went home with one my nurses and her husband for "dinner" and participated in a ménage à trois with them.  (They had the nerve to write on my cast); 2) A plain old, ordinary, gonorrhea carrying hooker.  Lovely, huh?  Are all men like that?  Certainly not.  Not my late husband, not my present husband.  If only someone had come to him and said, "Ask God to quiet your desires for this time."  No, their thoughts ran more to giving ME a book telling me how to satisfy my husband while bedfast.  As if I didn't know.   

[phoebe]

Men seem unwilling to go that far.  The motive is different.  Generally, men just want to get satisfaction and release.  To them, getting that is the filling of God.

Wow...as a man, I am offended.  It goes way deeper then that my dear friend...it is becoming one with my wife, truly one!  You have a warped view of men....

Totally agree, what a rediculous think to say.Phoebe, I feel sorry for you, you have obviously met some bad men who have influenced your perceptions. MY dad was a womaniser who had affairs, but despite that i know that many men want to have sex through love and a mutual joining, NOT just for the physical release. That is a very judgemental thing to say, and in my experience, not true.

chosenone, stop psychoanalyzing me.  I am tired of it.  Save your pity for someone who needs it.

The fact is I DID have some bad experiences.  But it does not define my thinking.  I learned from it.  And I want to help others avoid the trap, both men and women.  More the pity if I keep silent.

The men themselves have written here about this physical need and the lack of the filling.  The whole point of the thread.

I made a generalized statement.  Not personal, which is more than I can say for you.

[phoebe]

Will leave you all to continue judging me, my past, and my motives.  Will continue praying that we all seek God first, truly above all, even mates.  My husband will be making a treacherous drive home soon as we are in the middle of this impending "historic" winter storm and I want to prepare to make the drive worth his while.

Au revoir, mes ami.

[Thankfulldad]

Will leave you all to continue judging me, my past, and my motives. 

Funny...I though you were judging me

[chosenone]

Will leave you all to continue judging me, my past, and my motives.  Will continue praying that we all seek God first, truly above all, even mates.  My husband will be making a treacherous drive home soon as we are in the middle of this impending "historic" winter storm and I want to prepare to make the drive worth his while.

Au revoir, mes ami.

[chosenone]

Men seem unwilling to go that far.  The motive is different.  Generally, men just want to get satisfaction and release.  To them, getting that is the filling of God.

Wow...as a man, I am offended.  It goes way deeper then that my dear friend...it is becoming one with my wife, truly one!  You have a warped view of men....

Totally agree, what a rediculous think to say.Phoebe, I feel sorry for you, you have obviously met some bad men who have influenced your perceptions. MY dad was a womaniser who had affairs, but despite that i know that many men want to have sex through love and a mutual joining, NOT just for the physical release. That is a very judgemental thing to say, and in my experience, not true.

chosenone, stop psychoanalyzing me.  I am tired of it.  Save your pity for someone who needs it.

The fact is I DID have some bad experiences.  But it does not define my thinking.  I learned from it.  And I want to help others avoid the trap, both men and women.  More the pity if I keep silent.

The men themselves have written here about this physical need and the lack of the filling.  The whole point of the thread.

I made a generalized statement.  Not personal, which is more than I can say for you.

So if you have put it behind you and learnt form it why are you still so bitter? I know several women who have been badly hurt by men, including myself and two women in my close family, but none of them have this attitude towards men.

[DCR]

I don't have any interest here in speculating on the effects of anyone's past.  But, what I do see is some faulty doctrine being taught here.  That's what I'm addressing.

First of all...

Women learn to fill with God and release the need for sex.

Trying to read between the lines here of what's being implied... does this say that "learning to fill with God" and "releasing the need for sex" are mutually exclusive things?  Basically, are we saying renouncing sex (even in marriage) is some sort of spiritual goal?  Whether the claim that women do that and men don't is only secondary to the issue of an underlying teaching I'm hearing here that sex should be cast off by the more spiritual person.  Am I understanding that correctly?

 

Paul said it was better to what?  Not touch a woman.  Then he makes allowances for their weaknesses.  His word: weaknesses.  Shouldn't we be seeking to be stronger in faith, in spirit, in body?  Not yielding to and feeding that weakness?  Do men ever think about these things?

So, sex even within the confines of marriage... is feeding weakness?  Is that what you're saying?  This appears to come awfully close to asceticism (see Colossians 2:21-23).

Hebrews 13:4 says the marriage bed is to be amiantos, "undefiled", unsoiled, "free from that by which the nature of a thing is deformed and debased, or its force and vigour impaired"

Marriage and everything in it is honorable.  It is to be treated with respect, with agape love, with self-sacrifice.  

And the preceding vs. 3b: "...Take thought for those who have been badly treated as if it were happening to you in person."



The call for godliness is not easy.  But it's still there.  We can do anything through Christ.  Or we can't.

Is removing sex from marriage, therefore, a spiritual goal?

[chosenone]

Sex in marriage is blessed by God, and as He made us into sexual beings and inspired the writing of the Song of Songs, I am guessing that He 100% for sex in marriage.
Just my thoughts.

[PatientMan]

This is a very interesting thread because for years I have asked the question, "What if you are married and still burning?"  The posts in this forum are also interesting because most do not present a solution or a path to the solution.  One post mentioned working it out and talking, which is excellent advice.  There were several threads that I read and was quite confused how a man could write those things and then I realized that it was a woman, which was confirmed later by her own post.

I have been married for 23 years.  We now have sex once or twice a month and even those times are not gratifying to me.  I burn all of the time.  Many years ago I began to attempt to teach myself to not need it.  Pheobe's claim that a man can learn to do right has nothing to do with this issue.  Now when I look at my wife my first instinct is to shut myself down.  That approach has caused other issues however.  When my wife is "in the mood" I am already shutting myself down.  It may take a long time for me to give in so to speak.  In the past I would just say to myself that I have to get it when I can and just go with it.  Now, I am so affected by the past 20+ years of dealing with this that the psyche of the situation is almost as powerful as the flesh's yearning and I therefore resist having sex with her.

This situation in my marriage opens a door for temptation.  The bible says to drink from your own cistern.  Again, what if your cistern is dry and you are thirsty.  As time goes on you will get increasingly thirsty.  You'll tend to go to someone else's cistern.  I remember on one occasion that I went on travel for my job and I saw a woman that attracted me.  I started thinking of her in my hotel room.  Get the picture.  I didn't pursue that, but the fact that I thought about it a lot scared me.  Similar situations happened in later years, which also scared me.  People can easily say that the man just has to learn to control himself.  True.  All people should control themselves.  That is one of the fruits of the Spirit.  Why should he have to?  Why should a man get married and then have to deal with not having intimacy with his wife (or a wife her husband)?  That's like inviting a person to a restaurant to play bingo.  I would expect to eat (not that marriage is only about sex, but it is an important aspect)!   Even if the wife has legitimate health issues doesn't resolve this because the man will still burn.  Anyway, the man has to learn to turn himself off as I attempted, find relief elsewhere (another woman, masturbation, porn, blah blah), rape his wife, or deal with the increasing stress of not having sexual relief.

The last option is most interesting.  Even if the husband "respects" his wife and doesn't push the issue he still has to deal with the stress of not having sexual satisfaction within the marriage.  It will affect him all of the time--even in his dreams.  I'm telling you all things I've dealt with for years.  The stress becomes unbarable until perhaps that glorious day when you find relief in the shower.  The stress will affect your health, mindset, mood, etc.  It becomes a constant stress such that the man not only wants to have sex, but now he wants to relieve the stress, which is done by having sex he can't have. The bottom line is that the stress increases.

I understand why people cheat on their spouses.  No it is still not right nor am I condoning it.  However, I understand it.  If you had food in your own kitchen then you wouldn't be tempted to go to someone else's kitchen.  The fact here is that the man isn't getting fed and he remains hungry.  Fighting temptation becomes a lifelong challenge unfortunately.

OK.  What do you do about this?  In the beginning of my marriage I first educated myself as much as I could about the marriage relationship.  That helped a lot. Of course I prayed to God constantly.  I even had pictures of women on my computer. Through the years of studying marriage I learned that you have to communicate.  I would tell my wife how I felt about the marriage.  I would only have these serious talks about once or twice a year (like a state of the union address if you will). That has never seemed to make a difference though, which further increased my frustration.

In any case communication is still extremly important in this issue and any marital issue.  You have to discuss it. Prayer is always necessary.  In the end I believe there has to be a way where we can overcome the flesh and perhaps even subdue these desires.  I think that Jesus didn't have to deal with this or he knew exactly what to do to bring his flesh under submission.  The bible says that he was tempted in all points just like we are, which means that Jesus knew what to do when he saw a woman.  We just don't know how to do that.  The church surely doesn't teach us or really discuss the topic much.

My advice is simple (based on my 23 years of experience dealing with this and yet still maintain an otherwise healthy marriage).  Keep discussing the issue with your wife.  Keep trying to bring your flesh under submission.  I have to say this--find ways to relieve yourself.  In now way am I condoning porn or the like.  Just that there has to be a way to relieve the pressure.   I also found that our sexual desires are most strong when we feed it, therefore it is prudent not to look at things that would stimulate you, i.e., feed the desire.  

I'm sorry to have such a long thread, but I figured this is worth it.  It is senseless to say the woman is suppose to do this and the man is supposed to do that.  I would rather focus the solution.  I suppose that the ultimate solution is to learn to bring the flesh under submission, which is problematic since the bible seems to imply that getting married is an alternate to burning.  If God's power can heal the body then surely his power can bring sexual desires under submission.  However, our first thought is usually how to satisfy those cravings, not subdue them.  I know.  Easier said than done.  I know.  I've been at it for 23 years.  Keep pursuing it without wrecking your marriage. That's an overview of what I have to say about this.

[larry2]

Is removing sex from marriage, therefore, a spiritual goal?

The ultimate goal of us decrepit, dilapidated, feeble old, old people is not to worry about being a serving and loving mate any longer; it has become survival of the fittest. What we lack in the the lust of youth can be passed off as spirituality. Our youth is gone, pleasures have vanished, wrinkles have set in and we remain ugly regardless of the makeup or conditioning we put ourselves through.

Worst of all is the lack of enthusiasm for life long forgotten while we trudge through the way voicing our great accumulation of knowledge, while complaining about everything from scab on our head to bunions on our feet. Let someone have any problem, we have the answer for it even when we haven't necessarily been there and done that, but we read something somewhere and can tell you how you are wrong.

Give us your ear for a moment and maybe you can end up just as miserable as us. Wow it's great being older than dirt.

[Husbandseekinghelp]

All the responses have been helpful - each in their own way.  I thank you all and invite your continued contributions.

I have been struggling with this for 17 years of marriage.  I decided to go online and ask about it because, in spite of the many books I own on Christian marriage (all of which devote at least a chapter to sex in marriage) I have never yet read any Christian author address the issue of prolonged and perpetual resistance to intimacy in a marriage.  Most Christian counselors, and books, basically say the same thing to husbands:  Show affection, do kind things, talk to your wife, be romantic, listen to her desires...and then like magic she will start responding in the bedroom.

I beat myself up with this for years because we had great communication, I loved surprising her, I helped in all the ways I could, tried to be a spiritual leader, led devotions with my family...but this never translated into physical intimacy with a regularity that kept me from burning.  I believe there are many men who need to hear the advice I mentioned above.  But our situation was unique, and I guess it still is. 

At times I have even prayed for my desire to be taken away.  In hindsight, I don't believe this is ordinarily a wise prayer.  It is, in a sense, asking the Lord to take back His gift to us.  A sex drive is not the problem, it is the sinful abuse of this desire that is the real problem.

I continue to trust in the power of God's Word to change hearts and lives.  It changed mine.  I am a sinner saved by the amazing grace of God.  I am going to ask my wife to read again a good book geared toward women on marriage, and I will read again "The Exemplary Husband" by Stuart Scott.  He is very Biblical, though like every book written by human authors, it has its weaknesses.

In the mean time I believe this is all working together for my good, hard as it is. 

Sincerely in Christ,

[chosenone]

Patientman, a very insightful post. 

Larry, life isnt THAT awful is it?

[JMT]

It isn't inconsistent at all.  Yes, it's true for both.  Women learn to fill with God and release the need for sex.  

Then what are they self preserving from?  If they are filled with God why the continued need to self protect?

Marriage is *the* outlet for sex...so I don't understand why a woman who was released from her need for sex would get married at all.  It seems cruel to me to do so.

Men seem unwilling to go that far.  The motive is different.  Generally, men just want to get satisfaction and release.  To them, getting that is the filling of God.  But is it?  Isn't that seeking God with an agenda for self-satisfaction?  

Wow.  Hunh.  Not real sure what to think about the above.  Men express love for their bride through sexual touch and encounters.  They also feel love through those avenues. It is not just fleshly and selfish desire that drives them...it is a God given desire placed in them.  A man who desires his wife is not just seeking self satisfaction, but being a good faithful man who loves his wife and wants to act on that love.  If God was against sexual love, why is the Song of Soloman included in the Bible?

 For women who avoid it, it's about things much deeper than a physical desire.  It involves the WHOLE woman.  There is so much behind a woman who avoids sex.  And most of the time it is not punishment, or "withholding".  A woman seeks peace.  Does her mate not desire that for her?  Whether he is the source or not, doesn't he want peace for her??  God does.

And what does God want for the dh? Peace as well. Peace comes to many a man through the godly outlet of marital sexual encounters.  Doesn't a wife desire peace for her dh?  Shouldn't she?  If he should desire peace for her(as you say) then she should for him as well.  A compromise can surely be met...and I even will go so far as to say if a woman is so totally turned off at the thought of sex with her spouse (that is *not* abusing or mistreating her), she needs a heart and mind changing.  Prayer for God to open her heart to her dh fully and trust God enough to reach out to her dh in a way that no one else in his life can.  His sexuality is intrusted to her and hers to him...God wants it that way.

Paul said it was better to what?  Not touch a woman.  Then he makes allowances for their weaknesses.  His word: weaknesses.  Shouldn't we be seeking to be stronger in faith, in spirit, in body?  Not yielding to and feeding that weakness?  Do men ever think about these things?

He makes allowances because he realizes that not all are *like* him. (Did you notice that women are included in who they should have sex with, so that implies women have the "weakness" too)  He says "I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that." Since he admits that his status is a gift and concedes that others may not have it, it is BETTER to have an active healthy sex life so that sexual immorality be avoided.  It is avoided through marital relations.  

[larry2]

The ultimate goal of us decrepit, dilapidated, feeble old, old people is not to worry about being a serving and loving mate any longer; it has become survival of the fittest. What we lack in the the lust of youth can be passed off as spirituality. Our youth is gone, pleasures have vanished, wrinkles have set in and we remain ugly regardless of the makeup or conditioning we put ourselves through.

Worst of all is the lack of enthusiasm for life long forgotten while we trudge through the way voicing our great accumulation of knowledge, while complaining about everything from scab on our head to bunions on our feet. Let someone have any problem, we have the answer for it even when we haven't necessarily been there and done that, but we read something somewhere and can tell you how you are wrong.

Give us your ear for a moment and maybe you can end up just as miserable as us. Wow it's great being older than dirt.

Larry, life isnt THAT awful is it?

  No it isn't dear sister. On the first of this month I had been retired for eleven years, and when I came to that place in my life I reminded God that I didn't desire to have a do-over as He gave Abraham and Sarah. I wouldn't trade this time of life for an eternity of lives prior to this time. I just enjoy voicing something different to amuse me; you know the comedian that laughs at his own jokes?  

[chosenone]

Yes Larry I understand.
There are many advantages to getting older as well as disadvantages. I am no where near you yet, but at 54, I am creeping towards that age. Most of my very close friends are in their 60's though, which is quite nice as it makes me feel young!
Blessings.

[chosenone]

Jmt
some good thoughts.
I have to say that for me, the closer I get to God, and the more filled with Him I am, the more I want to please him and obey him and be a good wife to my husband. This would obviously include the sexual part of our marriage. I really think that sex in a marriage is SO important, and helps to strengthen it, and cement the couple together. Each spouse can choose how to act in this area but there are always consequences to our choices, whether good or bad.
I cant go along with the idea that the more we are filled with God the more we can do without sex. If we are married, we are SUPPOSED to have sex.Its is good it is godly and it is beneficial.  That is what God says and teaches. Any gift from God is good and beneficial, and sex is one of the gifts.
I once read that for a man, having sex enables him to open up emotionally to his wife, and I have found that to be true. So any wife who says that her husband doesn't meet her emotional needs, while withholding sex or controlling the sex life(as with a women that I know), needs to pray about, and work at, improving the sex life, and things may just  improve dramatically.

Things like this cannot be based on feelings, but on a decision to make our sex lives the best that we can, not to use sex as a controlling thing, and never to reject our spouse sexually. To often be rejected sexually is a hurtful and damaging thing for anyone.

[Husbandseekinghelp]

A couple words of thanks:

Chosenone:  Your replies have conveyed BOTH sympathy and truth.  They have been tremendously encouraging.  Keep up the good work.  And may Christ our Savior continue to bless you and your marriage.

Patientman: Your experience probably comes the closest to what I have been given to bear, and I appreciate your willingness to share it.  May the Lord continue to give you "grace to help in time of need." 

And to everyone else...thanks for listening, reading, responding and basically being there.  It has helped.  I have many sins in my own life to deal with.  This issue is not the defining issue of my life.  By God's grace I will continue "seeking those things that are above" while also managing the trials and disappointments that we must bear below.

[chosenone]

Husbandseekinghelp
Thank you, that has encouraged me greatly. It is a second marriage for both of us, but a very good and blessed one.

[JMT]

Jmt
some good thoughts.
I have to say that for me, the closer I get to God, and the more filled with Him I am, the more I want to please him and obey him and be a good wife to my husband. This would obviously include the sexual part of our marriage. I really think that sex in a marriage is SO important, and helps to strengthen it, and cement the couple together. Each spouse can choose how to act in this area but there are always consequences to our choices, whether good or bad.
I cant go along with the idea that the more we are filled with God the more we can do without sex. If we are married, we are SUPPOSED to have sex.Its is good it is godly and it is beneficial.  That is what God says and teaches. Any gift from God is good and beneficial, and sex is one of the gifts.I once read that for a man, having sex enables him to open up emotionally to his wife, and I have found that to be true. So any wife who says that her husband doesn't meet her emotional needs, while withholding sex or controlling the sex life(as with a women that I know), needs to pray about, and work at, improving the sex life, and things may just  improve dramatically.

Things like this cannot be based on feelings, but on a decision to make our sex lives the best that we can, not to use sex as a controlling thing, and never to reject our spouse sexually. To often be rejected sexually is a hurtful and damaging thing for anyone.

Chosen I agree 100% with your points that I bolded.  SO true!

[HannahT]

Husbandseekinghelp:

I pray that you find other ways of feeling close to your wife.  I know it must hurt. 

There are men and women that struggle with lack of desire, and its roots can be found in so many different places.  I know some were raised with a sense of shame regarding sex, and some do move past it - others struggle all their lifes with it.    At times it could be a lack of self image issue, and are afraid to emotionally open up in that fashion.  They feel they are too dirty, and are frightened to show that part of themselves.   Yet others struggle due to sexual abuse of the past.  Those are just three of many circumstances.

Some find the issue, and others don't.  I don't know if we will ever figure out why.  I don't think things are as black and white as I have seen written in books, articles, etc.  I'm not saying it doesn't work for some, because I would be wrong.  The set of behaviors, attitudes, etc that they have laid out may not work for all.  Don't allow yourself to be labeled due to that.  Life just doesn't work in boxes.

Pray for understanding and enlightenment, and of course pray for your wife.  In the meantime I guess I would advise looking for couples that may deal with this on a different level.  It could be medical for example.  They must learn to cope on a different level to grab hold of that closeness in a different manner.  They may have some viewpoints that others may never relate to.  It may give you some hope, and an avenue we don't stop to think about because we don't HAVE to.  There are many couples that 'can't', and yet have wonderful relationships.  I would seek them out, and they may give you insights that most never had to think about.

This may help you with the hurt in the in between times.  I will be praying for both of you.

[Carwhisperer]

And to everyone else...thanks for listening, reading, responding and basically being there.  It has helped.  I have many sins in my own life to deal with.  This issue is not the defining issue of my life.  By God's grace I will continue "seeking those things that are above" while also managing the trials and disappointments that we must bear below.

I think the main point has been debated to death, and although the majority is not always right I believe that in this case it is. Having said that I will share my own experience. My wife and I struggled in this area. She was abused as a child. Despite this she did a great job of fulfilling my sexual needs. 10 years in, however, things had slowed to 4 to 5 times per month. It got to the point where she thought all I wanted was sex and I thought she never wanted it. We had separated for 3 months 3 years prior and it looked like it was going that way again.

On a lark we decided to try having sex 2 times per week, taking a week off each month for her period. This worked really well for us. It took the tension out of the situation.

However, 7 years later things began to go down hill fast, mostly my fault. On one of our scheduled nights she told me she didn't want to have sex with me indefinitely. I said OK I want you to leave tomorrow. She left the next day and I started looking for a girlfriend that night, succeeding within a couple months.

Later I realized what a mistake I had made. We have been separated for  year and a half. At the moment it looks like reconciliation is a real possibility but I wouldn't have said that a week ago.

I know my situation was not as bad as the OP but I can say that being married to her without a perfect sex life was way better than life without her is.

God really does join married people together in a miraculous way. I had no idea how much she was a part of me until I tried to live without her for a while. We have both described being ripped in two by this separation. I'm not sure what my story means to the OP but it seemed relevant.