Was Saul/Paul water Baptized ??

[gospel]

The Cornelius incident was not the norm. It was an exception. It didn't nullify what the Eunuch knew to do after Phillip taught him the scriptures.

Sure it was.  Cornelius believed and then was baptized in water.  It just doesn't fit what you've been taught about the time frame of salvation.

The Eunuch believed and was baptized in water.  And so on and so on.

If you're going to make presumptions then for you it is so on and so on...

However when one reads what is actually there one can see that in Acts 8:37 Phillip required the Eunuch to meet a condition before being "WATER" baptized

That condition "BELIEVING IN HIS HEART AND CONFESSING HIS BELIEF IN JESUS" is  EVIDENCE OF BAPTISM IN THE HOLY GHOST

This is what you guys are missing, what happens in the heart is by the Power of God through the Holy Ghost, it has nothing to do with water

We are Baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Ghost, that Baptism is administered by the Holy Ghost, water baptism is administered by a man

Cornelius was Baptized into the Body of Christ when the Holy Ghost fell upon him

read it again...carefully this time

It's right there, its just that many of you have been so conditioned to the idea of John;s baptism you can't tell or see the difference between John's or Jesus

Jesus Baptism is Spiritual from heaven, John's Baptism is physical from earth

The Baptism that truly matters is the one that circumcises the heart, the spiritual one the one from heaven The Baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire

[gospel]

In Acts 2, they were baptized (in water) in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It couldn't have been that they were Holy Spirit baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how we got to this point, but...

At Pentecost, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room.

The "gift of the Holy Spirit" was promised to the mob in the street below (Acts 2:38) upon their water baptism.

What makes you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room?  The Bible doesn't say that.

No surprise there because in many instances you don't have the slightest clue of what the bible says.

I really don't have time and too little patience to debate someone that believes people are born sinless and pure  

So.....

Moving right along to something that matters....  

[Jaime]

Gospel, Jimmy had a pertinent question that I would think you would want to address, if not for Jimmy's sake but for the rest of us yearning masses.

[Lively Stone]

In Acts 2, they were baptized (in water) in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It couldn't have been that they were Holy Spirit baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how we got to this point, but...

At Pentecost, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room.

The "gift of the Holy Spirit" was promised to the mob in the street below (Acts 2:38) upon their water baptism.

What makes you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room?  The Bible doesn't say that.

What bible are you reading? 

[Jaime]

In Acts 2, they were baptized (in water) in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It couldn't have been that they were Holy Spirit baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how we got to this point, but...

At Pentecost, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room.

The "gift of the Holy Spirit" was promised to the mob in the street below (Acts 2:38) upon their water baptism.

What makes you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room?  The Bible doesn't say that.

What bible are you reading?  

Acts 2:1 Now when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all with one accord in one place.

It depends on who were the "all"? the 12 in 1:26 or the the 120 mentioned earlier in chapter 1.

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spoke out to them, "You men of Judea, and all you who dwell at Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen to my words.

(Let's see how nice we all can respond to each other!) Maybe even avoid terms like, "you just don't get it do you?" (Not talking to you Lively, just for general consumption.)

[Lively Stone]

It was the full 120 disciples that were in the upper room. The twelve were not referred to as 'the believers', but the larger group of approximately 120 were. There were no chapter divisions in the text originally, so we can be safe in thinking that the gathering was that original group of 120 men and women called to receive that important baptism of the Holy Spirit to preach the Gospel in other tongues!

[Jaime]

It was the full 120 disciples that were in the upper room. The twelve were not referred to as 'the believers', but the larger group of approximately 120 were. There were no chapter divisions in the text originally, so we can be safe in thinking that the gathering was that original group of 120 men and women called to receive that important baptism of the Holy Spirit to preach the Gospel in other tongues!

Lively, thank you for your response. This is an interesting question and I'm glad it came up. I had never really thought about it until now. I did some looking online and came up with the following link that seems to defend the 12 being the ones.

http://www.ntrf.org/articles/article_detail.php?PRKey=27

Based on 2:14, I tend to agree with the 12.  But it is interesting. Notice no one was bayonetted in my response. It is really easy to be civil. I don't know why I and others can't seem to sustain the niceness.

[Lively Stone]

It was the full 120 disciples that were in the upper room. The twelve were not referred to as 'the believers', but the larger group of approximately 120 were. There were no chapter divisions in the text originally, so we can be safe in thinking that the gathering was that original group of 120 men and women called to receive that important baptism of the Holy Spirit to preach the Gospel in other tongues!

Lively, thank you for your response. This is an interesting question and I'm glad it came up. I had never really thought about it until now. I did some looking online and came up with the following link that seems to defend the 12 being the ones.

http://www.ntrf.org/articles/article_detail.php?PRKey=27

Based on 2:14, I tend to agree with the 12.  But it is interesting. Notice no one was bayonetted in my response. It is really easy to be civil. I don't know why I and others can't seem to sustain the niceness.

Wow! I do not like that link and what it has concluded. A site that denies that women were anointed in the Holy Spirit and to put forth that view, I am sorry, but it is a slap in the face of God.

Look at one of the comments there:

"This is possible, but improbable. How many houses have you seen in the modern day could seat that many? How much less so in that day?"

Obviously no one does any research. Why do people insist on reading the Scriptures with today in mind?


I love this fellow who has a ministry and a TV show and has written books on the times of Christ as seen through the Hebrew culture of the time. He visits the holy land regularly and does his program from there. His name is Joe Amaral and the show is called 'First Century Foundations'. http://www.firstcentury.tv/

He did a program once from a place that they say was a replica of the Upper Room that the disciples regularly rented out for use as Jesus required. It is a HUGE room and it would hold 120 men and women.

At any given time, Jesus had AT LEAST 500 disciples following him everywhere! They included men, women and youth.  So, why would 120 be an unbelievable number? I think it is because people have religious mindsets and can only think in terms of the almighty sacred twelve! Well, God was in the business of explosively establishing the church with force! It was from this Pentecost that Peter was able to preach and hold a large audience and 3000 people were saved in that day!

[Jaime]

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spoke out to them, "You men of Judea, and all you who dwell at Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen to my words.

[gospel]

It was the full 120 disciples that were in the upper room. The twelve were not referred to as 'the believers', but the larger group of approximately 120 were. There were no chapter divisions in the text originally, so we can be safe in thinking that the gathering was that original group of 120 men and women called to receive that important baptism of the Holy Spirit to preach the Gospel in other tongues!

Lively, thank you for your response. This is an interesting question and I'm glad it came up. I had never really thought about it until now. I did some looking online and came up with the following link that seems to defend the 12 being the ones.

http://www.ntrf.org/articles/article_detail.php?PRKey=27

Based on 2:14, I tend to agree with the 12.  But it is interesting. Notice no one was bayonetted in my response. It is really easy to be civil. I don't know why I and others can't seem to sustain the niceness.

These types of discussions are frustrating for me, but I will try to remain centered.

One reason it is so frustrating is I find it almost deplorable that there are some believers who want to believe in the least of what God has done, the least of what God has given us and the least of what we have as believers, so please try to understand that for those of us who actually believe what the scriptures say about, Believers as....

1. Having all things pertaining to life and godliness, Blessed with every spiritual blessing,
2. Strong in the Lord and the Power of His Might, Partakers of God's Divine Nature
3. Having weapons of warfare not of this world but mighty in God for the tearing down of strongholds
4. Heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus, Heirs of the blessings of Abraham
5. Jesus is so are we in this world, and what ever we pray we should believe we receive and we shall have    
6. Having the manifestation of the Spirit given to every believer to profit all
7. Sanctified, Redeemed, a royal priesthood, Accepted in the beloved

which are just some of God's provisions for us as a starter....

Well

I'm sorry, but please understand the whole framework and basis of certain questions and insinuations are already an affront to us and an assault on our Faith.
So..
You have to forgive us when we get a little irritable when other "believers" come along trying to tell us, the promises of God were only for 12 human beings that are dead and gone....

....In fact that idea has the distinct aroma of the leftover remnants of the traditional interpretation of Roman Catholicism in that it propagates the notion that only 12 men are special above all other believers and that my dear friends is simply a lie...sorry to be so blunt but the truth is the truth anyway!  

None of the apostles, neither the original twelve nor the numerous others throughout the epistles ever taught such a notion and in fact by their own teachings taught the exact opposite.

That said  


As Lively appropriately pointed out...the chapter divisions were not there originally and that alone is the only basis for presuming 108 people left the Upper Room between choosing the 12th leader out of the 120 and the arrival of God the Holy Spirit which in fact is the only "stated" reason all 120 were there!

Sadly what some believers do not understand is that Jesus always had an outer circle of disciples as well as an inner circle.

Quite obviously everyone knows about the inner-circle of 12 but religious tradition seeks to distract believers from realizing there was always an outer circle of 120  

and similarly one hundred and twenty is not just an arbitrary, random number.

Acts 1 is merely where the place where this outer circle was noted in number. The RCC did not change scripture, they just interpreted in a way that would serve to minimize the empowerment of all believers.

Empowerment of the masses through the Truth of the Gospel was the last thing political leaders and monarchs either needed or desired. The last thing any of them wanted was a bunch of little Jesus's running about speaking truth breaking bondages, yokes and mental and spiritual strongholds.
To achieve their purpose they employed the talents of RC church leaders and where ever Christianity was spread, RC church leaders made sure Christianity produced a passive, spiritually impotent, spiritually ineffectual mindset...sheep in the lowest meaning of the term, those who could be manipulated and controlled with minimal effort.

The first task was taking women out of any capacity of leadership and interpreting scripture in such a way as to re-establish cultural bias in regard to women, not change it but interpret it and focus on certain verses out of context but I digress...

Back to the disciples of Jesus    

In the inner circle of 12 there was another inner circle of 3, Peter, James and John  

In addition the bible makes it clear that of the 120 disciples, at some point 72 of them were sent out with the same authority as that of the 12.

That fact alone and the fact that the word "apostle" literally means one who is sent, totally deflates the idea of any idea of exclusivity of the 12 in terms of doing the work of an apostle.

In the case of the 72 no names were mentioned, so no one knows who they were, yet there is no reason scriptural or otherwise to assume they were not taught and trained in the same manner as the 12 and in fact the following verses show they did have the same "spiritual" authority and power.

The only distinction is that they were not in leadership in relation to the entire group of disciples

We know they had the same spiritual authority and power because of what Jesus said to them in His instructions

Luke 10:16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.

[Lively Stone]

Gospel, you are a blessing! Excellent!

[gospel]

Gospel, you are a blessing! Excellent!

God Bless you Lively Stone.... "discipled" minds think alike!

and manna to you

[Jimmy]

In Acts 2, they were baptized (in water) in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It couldn't have been that they were Holy Spirit baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how we got to this point, but...

At Pentecost, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room.

The "gift of the Holy Spirit" was promised to the mob in the street below (Acts 2:38) upon their water baptism.

What makes you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room?  The Bible doesn't say that.

What bible are you reading?  

It really doesn't matter which Bible I am reading.  I don't know of a single translation that says that the events of  Acts 2:4 constitute Baptism in the Holy Spirit.  Now you may make the assumption that is the case and try to argue for that position.  But Lively, it is not a given that you are correct.  And in fact I can make an argument that you are not correct.  Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

For what it is worth, I think a credible argument can be made that Acts 2:41 was in fact limited to the 12 and not to the 120 that was mentioned in Acts 1:15.  Acts 2:1 suggests that one or even several days passed between the events of Acts 1:15-26 and the events in Acts 2:1 and following.  In fact there is reason to believe that the events on Pentecost discussed in Acts had nothing to do with the upper  room of Acts 2 but were in fact elsewhere.

Here again, you can make whatever assumptions you wish in your interpretation, and argue from that point of view.  But the Bible makes no such statement.  You must first answer the question of how much time passed between the events of Acts 1:15 and Pentecost in Acts 2:1

[Lively Stone]

In Acts 2, they were baptized (in water) in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It couldn't have been that they were Holy Spirit baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how we got to this point, but...

At Pentecost, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room.

The "gift of the Holy Spirit" was promised to the mob in the street below (Acts 2:38) upon their water baptism.

What makes you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room?  The Bible doesn't say that.

What bible are you reading?  

It really doesn't matter which Bible I am reading.  I don't know of a single translation that says that the events of  Acts 2:4 constitute Baptism in the Holy Spirit.  Now you may make the assumption that is the case and try to argue for that position.  But Lively, it is not a given that you are correct.  And in fact I can make an argument that you are not correct.  Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

For what it is worth, I think a credible argument can be made that Acts 2:41 was in fact limited to the 12 and not to the 120 that was mentioned in Acts 1:15.  Acts 2:1 suggests that one or even several days passed between the events of Acts 1:15-26 and the events in Acts 2:1 and following.  In fact there is reason to believe that the events on Pentecost discussed in Acts had nothing to do with the upper  room of Acts 2 but were in fact elsewhere.

Here again, you can make whatever assumptions you wish in your interpretation, and argue from that point of view.  But the Bible makes no such statement.  You must first answer the question of how much time passed between the events of Acts 1:15 and Pentecost in Acts 2:1

What do you think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is?

[gospel]

In Acts 2, they were baptized (in water) in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It couldn't have been that they were Holy Spirit baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how we got to this point, but...

At Pentecost, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room.

The "gift of the Holy Spirit" was promised to the mob in the street below (Acts 2:38) upon their water baptism.

What makes you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room?  The Bible doesn't say that.

What bible are you reading?  

It really doesn't matter which Bible I am reading.  I don't know of a single translation that says that the events of  Acts 2:4 constitute Baptism in the Holy Spirit.  Now you may make the assumption that is the case and try to argue for that position.  But Lively, it is not a given that you are correct.  And in fact I can make an argument that you are not correct.  Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

For what it is worth, I think a credible argument can be made that Acts 2:41 was in fact limited to the 12 and not to the 120 that was mentioned in Acts 1:15.  Acts 2:1 suggests that one or even several days passed between the events of Acts 1:15-26 and the events in Acts 2:1 and following.  In fact there is reason to believe that the events on Pentecost discussed in Acts had nothing to do with the upper  room of Acts 2 but were in fact elsewhere.

Here again, you can make whatever assumptions you wish in your interpretation, and argue from that point of view.  But the Bible makes no such statement.  You must first answer the question of how much time passed between the events of Acts 1:15 and Pentecost in Acts 2:1

Only thing wrong with your credible argument is it ignores the reason the 120 went there in the first place

The only thing your argument supports is that 12 men were more specially endowed  than all other believers, which puts you in camp which holds a belief that is nothing but an off shoot of what Roman Catholics hold to...that only 12 men were empowered by Jesus...

Unfortunately Luke 10:16,17 shows that idea to be the farce that it is


You must first answer the question of how much time passed between the events of Acts 1:15 and Pentecost in Acts 2:1

That is the question you have to ask.... the rest of us are satisfied with what is written
Jesus said go and wait His disciples all 120 of them went and wait

Everything else, every speculation, every assumption to the contrary and every doubt concerning the 120 disciples commitment and desire to heed the instruction of Jesus is human wisdom in its rawest and worse form

14They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.

15In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty)


Peter stood up among the 120 believers and spoke to the 120 believers



Still speaking Peter said the person they chose needed to be someone who went in and out AMONG US


21Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us

US is those of whom he stood up to address...THE 120

Responding to Peter




"They" the 120 believers as a group proposed 2 men




"They" the 120 believers prayed


No where from Peter standing up to the end of chapter 1 is their a distinction or delineation of who Luke is referring to as "They"

Luke the writer is speaking of the group of believers as "THEY"


It should be noted here HE is acting as a witness, one whom himself is there but at the same time NOT ONE OF THE 12

In Chapter 2 the very first verse

"THEY" refers to the same

As Lively Stone very aptly pointed out there were no divisions of chapter and verse, these were added by scribes much later


In addition it should be further noted that Basic Common Grammatical practice forbids a writer to start a sentence referring to a group of people that have not been specified as THEY  

Therefore the "they" in Acts chapter 2 verse 1 is a direct reference to the "us" Peter cited and the THEY cited by Luke

I would add anything can be argued or debated

and in the realm of human reason, anything can be reasoned for or against

There is human reason to support anything even the most abhorrent of things, abortion, drugs, sexual perversions and quite a few ridiculous things can be made to appear reasonable in the realm of human reason...

...but as believers a word of caution is

don't bank on it!

[stevehut]

Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

Now, that's a new one on me.  And I thought I had heard anything.   

[gospel]

Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

Now, that's a new one on me.  And I thought I had heard anything.  

Amazing and I'm sure unwittingly and unknowingly...

In what he is saying regarding the 3000

Jimmy is actually agreeing with the same idea that I've been putting forth and I'm sure he does not realize it yet....

What I have been saying and trying to say

Where baptism is mentioned and water is not, many believers assume water but...

The Baptism of the Holy Spirit that Jesus came to bring, The Baptism of Holy Ghost and Fire does not require water,

This baptism comes about by

1. The hearing of the gospel
2. The piercing, cutting, regeneration of the heart
3. and the confession of Jesus as Lord

At this point a believer is supernaturally BAPTIZED INTO, IMMERSED into the Body of Christ

If one reads the epistles one will see, where water is not mentioned this is what has occurred

The Baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire!

The Upper Room was an Infilling to Overflowing, the empowerment of the Holy Spirit ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO GO YE INTO THE WORLD to preach the Gospel

It cannot be done "effectively" with the empowerment of the Holy Spirit

Which is why Jesus told the 120 to wait for Him!


I have to add, it's what I have been mulling over for some time and the more I reflect on the scriptures, the promise of the Holy Ghost Baptism, knowing this Baptism was to be for all believers...the more I believe what I am saying is true and verified in the Word

Which is why Jesus never water baptized anyone

And why Paul stated it was not his particular emphasis or concern

The Baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire is the ministry of the Holy Ghost and is administered by Him upon

1.Hearing, 2. Believing and 3. Confessing or Calling Upon the Name of Jesus!!!!

He immerses us into the Body of Christ

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13

[Jimmy]

In Acts 2, they were baptized (in water) in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It couldn't have been that they were Holy Spirit baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how we got to this point, but...

At Pentecost, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room.

The "gift of the Holy Spirit" was promised to the mob in the street below (Acts 2:38) upon their water baptism.

What makes you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room?  The Bible doesn't say that.

What bible are you reading?  

It really doesn't matter which Bible I am reading.  I don't know of a single translation that says that the events of  Acts 2:4 constitute Baptism in the Holy Spirit.  Now you may make the assumption that is the case and try to argue for that position.  But Lively, it is not a given that you are correct.  And in fact I can make an argument that you are not correct.  Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

For what it is worth, I think a credible argument can be made that Acts 2:41 was in fact limited to the 12 and not to the 120 that was mentioned in Acts 1:15.  Acts 2:1 suggests that one or even several days passed between the events of Acts 1:15-26 and the events in Acts 2:1 and following.  In fact there is reason to believe that the events on Pentecost discussed in Acts had nothing to do with the upper  room of Acts 2 but were in fact elsewhere.

Here again, you can make whatever assumptions you wish in your interpretation, and argue from that point of view.  But the Bible makes no such statement.  You must first answer the question of how much time passed between the events of Acts 1:15 and Pentecost in Acts 2:1

What do you think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is?

I think that baptism of the Holy Spirit is what each and every Christian receives when the are saved. 

1Co 12:13  For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

If you wish, I can email you a brief study that I put together.  It is about 4 pages long and I think a bit too much for a forum.

[Jimmy]

Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

Now, that's a new one on me.  And I thought I had heard anything.  

It is not new at all.  I agree that it is not the predominant view, but it is, I believe, the correct biblical view.  I believe it is what was received by those who obeyed Peter when they asked him what they should do in Acts 2:37.  The result of course is presented in Acts 2:38.  What better gift of the Holy Spirit can you even imagine than the baptism of the Holy Spirit which was promised by both John the Baptist and Jesus Himself.

We are baptized in the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ when we are water baptized.  John the Baptist said that Jesus would be the one to do it.  I believe that.  He does that when we submit to being water baptized.

[gospel]

In Acts 2, they were baptized (in water) in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It couldn't have been that they were Holy Spirit baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how we got to this point, but...

At Pentecost, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room.

The "gift of the Holy Spirit" was promised to the mob in the street below (Acts 2:38) upon their water baptism.

What makes you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room?  The Bible doesn't say that.

What bible are you reading?  

It really doesn't matter which Bible I am reading.  I don't know of a single translation that says that the events of  Acts 2:4 constitute Baptism in the Holy Spirit.  Now you may make the assumption that is the case and try to argue for that position.  But Lively, it is not a given that you are correct.  And in fact I can make an argument that you are not correct.  Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

For what it is worth, I think a credible argument can be made that Acts 2:41 was in fact limited to the 12 and not to the 120 that was mentioned in Acts 1:15.  Acts 2:1 suggests that one or even several days passed between the events of Acts 1:15-26 and the events in Acts 2:1 and following.  In fact there is reason to believe that the events on Pentecost discussed in Acts had nothing to do with the upper  room of Acts 2 but were in fact elsewhere.

Here again, you can make whatever assumptions you wish in your interpretation, and argue from that point of view.  But the Bible makes no such statement.  You must first answer the question of how much time passed between the events of Acts 1:15 and Pentecost in Acts 2:1

What do you think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is?

I think that baptism of the Holy Spirit is what each and every Christian receives when the are saved.  

1Co 12:13  For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

If you wish, I can email you a brief study that I put together.  It is about 4 pages long and I think a bit too much for a forum.

I'm completely aghast!!!

This is what I've been stating all along!

This has to be some sort of trick are you kiddin me?

[Jaime]

Question is, when is the point of salvation Jimmy is ascribing to? I predict no such agreement with you Gospel.

[Jimmy]

Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

Now, that's a new one on me.  And I thought I had heard anything.  

Amazing and I'm sure unwittingly and unknowingly...

In what he is saying regarding the 3000

Jimmy is actually agreeing with the same idea that I've been putting forth and I'm sure he does not realize it yet....

Not quite.

[gospel]

Seriously I think you're jokin, you argued persistently with me when I told you the 3000 were not Baptized in water....

You cannot believe both, at least I don't see how you can

Knowing that they were baptized by Holy Ghost and Fire

[Lively Stone]

In Acts 2, they were baptized (in water) in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It couldn't have been that they were Holy Spirit baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how we got to this point, but...

At Pentecost, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room.

The "gift of the Holy Spirit" was promised to the mob in the street below (Acts 2:38) upon their water baptism.

What makes you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room?  The Bible doesn't say that.

What bible are you reading?  

It really doesn't matter which Bible I am reading.  I don't know of a single translation that says that the events of  Acts 2:4 constitute Baptism in the Holy Spirit.  Now you may make the assumption that is the case and try to argue for that position.  But Lively, it is not a given that you are correct.  And in fact I can make an argument that you are not correct.  Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

For what it is worth, I think a credible argument can be made that Acts 2:41 was in fact limited to the 12 and not to the 120 that was mentioned in Acts 1:15.  Acts 2:1 suggests that one or even several days passed between the events of Acts 1:15-26 and the events in Acts 2:1 and following.  In fact there is reason to believe that the events on Pentecost discussed in Acts had nothing to do with the upper  room of Acts 2 but were in fact elsewhere.

Here again, you can make whatever assumptions you wish in your interpretation, and argue from that point of view.  But the Bible makes no such statement.  You must first answer the question of how much time passed between the events of Acts 1:15 and Pentecost in Acts 2:1

What do you think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is?

I think that baptism of the Holy Spirit is what each and every Christian receives when the are saved. 

1Co 12:13  For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

If you wish, I can email you a brief study that I put together.  It is about 4 pages long and I think a bit too much for a forum.

It would be good for you to research the NT and discover for yourself how every believer experienced a subsequent experience with the Holy Spirit, His baptism in power...all occurred after salvation.

[Jaime]

Lively, I thought you had stated the baptism of the Holy Spirit WAS salvation, now this?

[Lively Stone]

Lively, I thought you had stated the baptism of the Holy Spirit WAS salvation, now this?

I never expressed that.

[Jaime]

Gospel, you are a blessing! Excellent!

God Bless you Lively Stone.... "discipled" minds think alike!

and manna to you

I'm certainly discipled and I don't think like you an some things.

[Jimmy]

In Acts 2, they were baptized (in water) in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It couldn't have been that they were Holy Spirit baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how we got to this point, but...

At Pentecost, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room.

The "gift of the Holy Spirit" was promised to the mob in the street below (Acts 2:38) upon their water baptism.

What makes you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room?  The Bible doesn't say that.

What bible are you reading?  

It really doesn't matter which Bible I am reading.  I don't know of a single translation that says that the events of  Acts 2:4 constitute Baptism in the Holy Spirit.  Now you may make the assumption that is the case and try to argue for that position.  But Lively, it is not a given that you are correct.  And in fact I can make an argument that you are not correct.  Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

For what it is worth, I think a credible argument can be made that Acts 2:41 was in fact limited to the 12 and not to the 120 that was mentioned in Acts 1:15.  Acts 2:1 suggests that one or even several days passed between the events of Acts 1:15-26 and the events in Acts 2:1 and following.  In fact there is reason to believe that the events on Pentecost discussed in Acts had nothing to do with the upper  room of Acts 2 but were in fact elsewhere.

Here again, you can make whatever assumptions you wish in your interpretation, and argue from that point of view.  But the Bible makes no such statement.  You must first answer the question of how much time passed between the events of Acts 1:15 and Pentecost in Acts 2:1

What do you think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is?

I think that baptism of the Holy Spirit is what each and every Christian receives when the are saved. 

1Co 12:13  For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

If you wish, I can email you a brief study that I put together.  It is about 4 pages long and I think a bit too much for a forum.

It would be good for you to research the NT and discover for yourself how every believer experienced a subsequent experience with the Holy Spirit, His baptism in power...all occurred after salvation.

I take it that you have a "Pentecostal view" of the Christian and the Holy Spirit.

[Jaime]

Lively, I thought you had stated the baptism of the Holy Spirit WAS salvation, now this?

I never expressed that.

I'm pretty sure Gospel has, so ya'll may not be as like-minded as Gospel thought.

[gospel]

Gospel, you are a blessing! Excellent!

God Bless you Lively Stone.... "discipled" minds think alike!

and manna to you

I'm certainly discipled and I don't think like you an some things.

Yeah but you'll come around  

.....especially when you stop presuming water is necessary for baptism  

[gospel]

Lively, I thought you had stated the baptism of the Holy Spirit WAS salvation, now this?

I never expressed that.

I'm pretty sure Gospel has, so ya'll may not be as like-minded as Gospel thought.

I think we are pretty much like minded however I see the two facets as one or to put another way the two facets are of one Truth

We are baptized "immersed" into the Body

However unlike some of you believe

That baptism qualifies all believers for empowerment from On High such as the 120

For the manifestation of the Spirit, whereby we are empowered to effectively witness, lay hands on the sick, and operate in the Gifts of the Spirit as He leads us in proportion to our faith

So Lively and I do agree!

You guys need to shake the water though...that's where you're stuck

[gospel]

In Acts 2, they were baptized (in water) in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It couldn't have been that they were Holy Spirit baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how we got to this point, but...

At Pentecost, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room.

The "gift of the Holy Spirit" was promised to the mob in the street below (Acts 2:38) upon their water baptism.

What makes you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room?  The Bible doesn't say that.

What bible are you reading?  

It really doesn't matter which Bible I am reading.  I don't know of a single translation that says that the events of  Acts 2:4 constitute Baptism in the Holy Spirit.  Now you may make the assumption that is the case and try to argue for that position.  But Lively, it is not a given that you are correct.  And in fact I can make an argument that you are not correct.  Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

For what it is worth, I think a credible argument can be made that Acts 2:41 was in fact limited to the 12 and not to the 120 that was mentioned in Acts 1:15.  Acts 2:1 suggests that one or even several days passed between the events of Acts 1:15-26 and the events in Acts 2:1 and following.  In fact there is reason to believe that the events on Pentecost discussed in Acts had nothing to do with the upper  room of Acts 2 but were in fact elsewhere.

Here again, you can make whatever assumptions you wish in your interpretation, and argue from that point of view.  But the Bible makes no such statement.  You must first answer the question of how much time passed between the events of Acts 1:15 and Pentecost in Acts 2:1

What do you think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is?

I think that baptism of the Holy Spirit is what each and every Christian receives when the are saved. 

1Co 12:13  For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

If you wish, I can email you a brief study that I put together.  It is about 4 pages long and I think a bit too much for a forum.

It would be good for you to research the NT and discover for yourself how every believer experienced a subsequent experience with the Holy Spirit, His baptism in power...all occurred after salvation.

I take it that you have a "Pentecostal view" of the Christian and the Holy Spirit.

That is the correct view...the 2 go hand in hand

In our fellowship a person is Saved according to Romans 10:9,10 however....

We go on to pray specifically for the infilling of the Holy Spirit according to Luke 11:13

This is a purposeful prayer in the same way Salvation is, in the same way the 120 were there specifically for the purpose of being empowered, activated in their call, according to the Gifts of the Spirit, without whom no ministry can be effective

For God has committed all believers with the ministry of reconciliation but without this purposeful infilling of the Holy Spirit, one's ministry will operate out of one's own mind according to one's own natural ability and the limitation of human reason and human understanding.

This is where a lot of believers are at...

Immersed into the Body but having so many contradictory ideas and doctrines they are stuck in the mire of operating out of natural ability

HAVING NO HOLY GHOST EMPOWERMENT and sadly in many cases these same people deny His empowerment is even available 


 

[Jimmy]

In Acts 2, they were baptized (in water) in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It couldn't have been that they were Holy Spirit baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how we got to this point, but...

At Pentecost, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room.

The "gift of the Holy Spirit" was promised to the mob in the street below (Acts 2:38) upon their water baptism.

What makes you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room?  The Bible doesn't say that.

What bible are you reading?  

It really doesn't matter which Bible I am reading.  I don't know of a single translation that says that the events of  Acts 2:4 constitute Baptism in the Holy Spirit.  Now you may make the assumption that is the case and try to argue for that position.  But Lively, it is not a given that you are correct.  And in fact I can make an argument that you are not correct.  Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

For what it is worth, I think a credible argument can be made that Acts 2:41 was in fact limited to the 12 and not to the 120 that was mentioned in Acts 1:15.  Acts 2:1 suggests that one or even several days passed between the events of Acts 1:15-26 and the events in Acts 2:1 and following.  In fact there is reason to believe that the events on Pentecost discussed in Acts had nothing to do with the upper  room of Acts 2 but were in fact elsewhere.

Here again, you can make whatever assumptions you wish in your interpretation, and argue from that point of view.  But the Bible makes no such statement.  You must first answer the question of how much time passed between the events of Acts 1:15 and Pentecost in Acts 2:1

What do you think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is?

I think that baptism of the Holy Spirit is what each and every Christian receives when the are saved. 

1Co 12:13  For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

If you wish, I can email you a brief study that I put together.  It is about 4 pages long and I think a bit too much for a forum.

It would be good for you to research the NT and discover for yourself how every believer experienced a subsequent experience with the Holy Spirit, His baptism in power...all occurred after salvation.

I take it that you have a "Pentecostal view" of the Christian and the Holy Spirit.

That is the correct view

I don't think so, but you knew that.

[gospel]

In Acts 2, they were baptized (in water) in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It couldn't have been that they were Holy Spirit baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how we got to this point, but...

At Pentecost, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room.

The "gift of the Holy Spirit" was promised to the mob in the street below (Acts 2:38) upon their water baptism.

What makes you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room?  The Bible doesn't say that.

What bible are you reading?  

It really doesn't matter which Bible I am reading.  I don't know of a single translation that says that the events of  Acts 2:4 constitute Baptism in the Holy Spirit.  Now you may make the assumption that is the case and try to argue for that position.  But Lively, it is not a given that you are correct.  And in fact I can make an argument that you are not correct.  Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

For what it is worth, I think a credible argument can be made that Acts 2:41 was in fact limited to the 12 and not to the 120 that was mentioned in Acts 1:15.  Acts 2:1 suggests that one or even several days passed between the events of Acts 1:15-26 and the events in Acts 2:1 and following.  In fact there is reason to believe that the events on Pentecost discussed in Acts had nothing to do with the upper  room of Acts 2 but were in fact elsewhere.

Here again, you can make whatever assumptions you wish in your interpretation, and argue from that point of view.  But the Bible makes no such statement.  You must first answer the question of how much time passed between the events of Acts 1:15 and Pentecost in Acts 2:1

What do you think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is?

I think that baptism of the Holy Spirit is what each and every Christian receives when the are saved. 

1Co 12:13  For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

If you wish, I can email you a brief study that I put together.  It is about 4 pages long and I think a bit too much for a forum.

It would be good for you to research the NT and discover for yourself how every believer experienced a subsequent experience with the Holy Spirit, His baptism in power...all occurred after salvation.

I take it that you have a "Pentecostal view" of the Christian and the Holy Spirit.

That is the correct view

I don't think so, but you knew that.

Yep and ...

that is why you're close but no cigar!

[Jimmy]

In Acts 2, they were baptized (in water) in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It couldn't have been that they were Holy Spirit baptized in order to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Not sure how we got to this point, but...

At Pentecost, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room.

The "gift of the Holy Spirit" was promised to the mob in the street below (Acts 2:38) upon their water baptism.

What makes you think the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was received by the 120 in the upper room?  The Bible doesn't say that.

What bible are you reading?  

It really doesn't matter which Bible I am reading.  I don't know of a single translation that says that the events of  Acts 2:4 constitute Baptism in the Holy Spirit.  Now you may make the assumption that is the case and try to argue for that position.  But Lively, it is not a given that you are correct.  And in fact I can make an argument that you are not correct.  Rather, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what all 3000 mentioned in Acts 2:41 received,

For what it is worth, I think a credible argument can be made that Acts 2:41 was in fact limited to the 12 and not to the 120 that was mentioned in Acts 1:15.  Acts 2:1 suggests that one or even several days passed between the events of Acts 1:15-26 and the events in Acts 2:1 and following.  In fact there is reason to believe that the events on Pentecost discussed in Acts had nothing to do with the upper  room of Acts 2 but were in fact elsewhere.

Here again, you can make whatever assumptions you wish in your interpretation, and argue from that point of view.  But the Bible makes no such statement.  You must first answer the question of how much time passed between the events of Acts 1:15 and Pentecost in Acts 2:1

What do you think that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is?

I think that baptism of the Holy Spirit is what each and every Christian receives when the are saved. 

1Co 12:13  For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

If you wish, I can email you a brief study that I put together.  It is about 4 pages long and I think a bit too much for a forum.

It would be good for you to research the NT and discover for yourself how every believer experienced a subsequent experience with the Holy Spirit, His baptism in power...all occurred after salvation.

I take it that you have a "Pentecostal view" of the Christian and the Holy Spirit.

That is the correct view

I don't think so, but you knew that.

Yep and ...

that is why you're close but no cigar!

Well you do have the cigar, and it stinks.