Understanding who Jesus was, the Creator and Lord of the Sabbath.

[Jaime]

Gospel, I don't see Jesus saying the Sabbath was made for man was evidence of him disregarding it. The Sabbath being for man doesn't remove it's status as a blessing TO man from God. Jesus didn't break the Sabbath that God ordained, he properly interpreted it's meaning to be that it was to be a blessing to man. Not some onerous burdensome checklist.

God's intention from the beginning was that the Sabbath was to be for man, to rest and spiritually recharge.

[thethinker]

Amo wrote:

The question is, where do you know that from?  The bible says nowhere, that Jesus is the Sabbath.  This statement is wholly extra biblical.

gospel,

Do these people not read their Bibles? Paul CLEARLY said that the sabbath was a "shadow." The shadow is not the real thing. That to which the shadow points is the real thing. Paul said that the sabbath is the shadow and that Christ is the "substance" (the real sabbath).

Therefore, Jesus is our sabbath as you have said.

thinker

[gospel]

Hobie my friend
you are wasting your time !
There always have been those who resisted the truth.

Paul said that the sabbath was a shadow of Christ and that Christ Himself is the substance.

THIS MEANS THAT THE SABBATH POINTED TO JESUS OUR REAL SABBATH!

thinker

Exactly...Jesus is the Sabbath day of rest and that Day, The Lords Day is Eternal!

Hallelujah!

[thethinker]

Gospel, I don't see Jesus saying the Sabbath was made for man was evidence of him disregarding it. The Sabbath being for man doesn't remove it's status as a blessing TO man from God. Jesus didn't break the Sabbath that God ordained, he properly interpreted it's meaning to be that it was to be a blessing to man. Not some onerous burdensome checklist.

God's intention from the beginning was that the Sabbath was to be for man, to rest and spiritually recharge.

Jaime,

You gravely err! Paul said that the sabbath was the "shadow" and that Christ is the "substance." Hebrews says that when the substance appeared the shadow passed away. This is called "the NEW covenant"!

Christ is our sabbath because we REST in His finished work. No degree in rocket science is needed.

thinker

[gospel]

Gospel, I don't see Jesus saying the Sabbath was made for man was evidence of him disregarding it. The Sabbath being for man doesn't remove it's status as a blessing TO man from God. Jesus didn't break the Sabbath that God ordained, he properly interpreted it's meaning to be that it was to be a blessing to man. Not some onerous burdensome checklist.

God's intention from the beginning was that the Sabbath was to be for man, to rest and spiritually recharge.

Yet and still, He honored it only "as was His custom"

He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read. Luke 4:16


The Holy Spirit does not waste words or use them loosely, the phrase "as was His custom", is there specifically to relay that FOR JESUS the Sabbath was a custom NOT A REQUIREMENT as many have wrongly assumed

Jesus Himself being the SUBSTANCE of that which the SIGN pointed to was not subject to the Sign for He was the fulfillment of the Sign

His purpose, mission and ministry His very reason for coming as a man was specifically to Make those who receive Him, Holy.... a people belong to God!

That my friend is what Jesus came to do and meaning and the purpose of the SIGN of the Sabbath

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 1 Peter 2:9

[thethinker]

gospel wrote:

The Holy Spirit does not waste words or use them loosely, the phrase as  was His custom is there specifically to relay that FOR JESUS the Sabbath was a custom NOT A REQUIREMENT as many have wrongly assumed

Exactly! How could He be "Lord" of the sabbath if He was required to keep it?

thinker

[larry2]

We know that Jesus is the Sabbath!

The question is, where do you know that from?  The bible says nowhere, that Jesus is the Sabbath.  This statement is wholly extra biblical.  You may search the scriptures and find many different titles for Christ, but you will never see Him called the Sabbath, or Sabbath rest.  The Sabbath has always been a sign of entering into God's rest.  It was instituted by Christ Himself at creation, which is why Christ is Lord of the Sabbath, not the Sabbath.

Matt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The Sabbath day itself is not that rest, it is a specific time allotted by Christ Himself to enter into that rest in a way that is not possible on other days.  Number one, because the day was blessed and sanctified by Christ, who is God, who alone can bless and sanctify anything.  Number two, because having set the day aside for nothing other than quality time with God, there are not the distractions of every day life to interfere.  The day is observed by faith alone.  There is nothing apart from the word of God alone that makes the day appear different from any other in any way.  What is entering into God's rest, if it is not having faith in His word, and acting accordingly? 

Hebrews 4:9  There remaineth therefore a rest (a keeping Sabbath) to the people of God.

Hebrews 4:10  For he that is entered into His rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Hebrews 4:11  Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

[Lively Stone]

God's intention from the beginning was that the Sabbath was to be for man, to rest and spiritually recharge.

That's right. The Sabbath has morphed into a day for the religious who use it to worship God collectively (among many things), but we are called to worship the Lord continually.

[gospel]

We know that Jesus is the Sabbath!

The question is, where do you know that from?  The bible says nowhere, that Jesus is the Sabbath.  This statement is wholly extra biblical.  You may search the scriptures and find many different titles for Christ, but you will never see Him called the Sabbath, or Sabbath rest.  The Sabbath has always been a sign of entering into God's rest.  It was instituted by Christ Himself at creation, which is why Christ is Lord of the Sabbath, not the Sabbath.

Matt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The Sabbath day itself is not that rest, it is a specific time allotted by Christ Himself to enter into that rest in a way that is not possible on other days.  Number one, because the day was blessed and sanctified by Christ, who is God, who alone can bless and sanctify anything.  Number two, because having set the day aside for nothing other than quality time with God, there are not the distractions of every day life to interfere.  The day is observed by faith alone.  There is nothing apart from the word of God alone that makes the day appear different from any other in any way.  What is entering into God's rest, if it is not having faith in His word, and acting accordingly? 

Hebrews 4:9  There remaineth therefore a rest (a keeping Sabbath) to the people of God.

Hebrews 4:10  For he that is entered into His rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Hebrews 4:11  Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

The Sabbath Day is in fact is also referred to in Isaiah as the Year of the Lords Favor and the Day of Vengeance of our God

In each case the word "day" and the word "year" refer to the present age in which we have the distinct privilege of living in

There are no days, weeks, months or years in the spiritual realm or in eternity.

Hence these are not specific days or years as we would think of them but our understanding of days, weeks and years are shadows, symbols and signs pointing to the Eternal spiritual substance of set and appointed times established by God from the foundation of the world to accomplish His set plan and purpose


This is the day the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it. Psalm 118:24


We are living in the Lord's Day!

It is in fact an Age, the Age of Grace, a set and appointed time God has established for those who receive His salvation through His Savior Christ Jesus to ENTER INTO HIS REST

Once the time is up, there will be no Grace remaining for those who have not received Jesus, no more Free Gift of righteousness

If I understand scripture correctly at the conclusion of this Age there is no way to enter into The Kingdom, God's rest except by martyrdom

[thethinker]

gospel wrote:

The Sabbath Day is in fact is also referred to in Isaiah as the Year of the Lords Favor and the Day of Vengeance of our God

In each case the word "day" and the word "year" refer to the present age in which we have the distinct privilege of living in

There are no days, weeks, months or years in the spiritual realm or in eternity.

Hence these are not specific days or years as we would think of them but our understanding of days, weeks and years are shadows, symbols and signs pointing to the Eternal spiritual substance of set and appointed times established by God from the foundation of the world to accomplish His set plan and purpose


This is the day the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it. Psalm 118:24


We are living in the Lord's Day!

It is in fact an Age, the Age of Grace, a set and appointed time God has established for those who receive His salvation through His Savior Christ Jesus to ENTER INTO HIS REST

Once the time is up, there will be no Grace remaining for those who have not received Jesus, no more Free Gift of righteousness

If I understand scripture correctly at the conclusion of this Age there is no way to enter into The Kingdom, God's rest except by martyrdom

Your username "gospel" is fitting because you expound the gospel without adulterating it. 

thinker

[gospel]

gospel wrote:

The Sabbath Day is in fact is also referred to in Isaiah as the Year of the Lords Favor and the Day of Vengeance of our God

In each case the word "day" and the word "year" refer to the present age in which we have the distinct privilege of living in

There are no days, weeks, months or years in the spiritual realm or in eternity.

Hence these are not specific days or years as we would think of them but our understanding of days, weeks and years are shadows, symbols and signs pointing to the Eternal spiritual substance of set and appointed times established by God from the foundation of the world to accomplish His set plan and purpose


This is the day the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it. Psalm 118:24


We are living in the Lord's Day!

It is in fact an Age, the Age of Grace, a set and appointed time God has established for those who receive His salvation through His Savior Christ Jesus to ENTER INTO HIS REST

Once the time is up, there will be no Grace remaining for those who have not received Jesus, no more Free Gift of righteousness

If I understand scripture correctly at the conclusion of this Age there is no way to enter into The Kingdom, God's rest except by martyrdom

Your username "gospel" is fitting because you expound the gospel without adulterating it. 

thinker

To God be ALL the Glory thinker...

I must say your presence in this forum has been very encouraging to me and I believe several of us

I pray you continually remain steadfast in all that which the Lord has given you!

[WorshippingJesus]

Gospel, I don't see Jesus saying the Sabbath was made for man was evidence of him disregarding it. The Sabbath being for man doesn't remove it's status as a blessing TO man from God. Jesus didn't break the Sabbath that God ordained, he properly interpreted it's meaning to be that it was to be a blessing to man. Not some onerous burdensome checklist.

God's intention from the beginning was that the Sabbath was to be for man, to rest and spiritually recharge.

Hi Jaime

The scriptures tell us Jesus was working on the Sabbath day.

Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, "AND I, TOO, AM WORKING.

[thethinker]

Gospel, I don't see Jesus saying the Sabbath was made for man was evidence of him disregarding it. The Sabbath being for man doesn't remove it's status as a blessing TO man from God. Jesus didn't break the Sabbath that God ordained, he properly interpreted it's meaning to be that it was to be a blessing to man. Not some onerous burdensome checklist.

God's intention from the beginning was that the Sabbath was to be for man, to rest and spiritually recharge.

Hi Jaime

The scriptures tell us Jesus was working on the Sabbath day.

Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, "AND I, TOO, AM WORKING.

[Jaime]

Jesus only broke the Pharisees perverted sabbath. He did not break God's sabbath. The Pharisees had built innumerable fences around God's simple command ao as to make Gos's sabbath unrecognizable.

[thethinker]

Jesus only broke the Pharisees perverted sabbath. He did not break God's sabbath. The Pharisees had built innumerable fences around God's simple command ao as to make Gos's sabbath unrecognizable.

Jesus said that David broke the sabbath and was justified. This was BEFORE the Pharisees. It is sometimes permissible to break the letter of the law. Jesus broke the letter of the law regarding the sabbath and was justified as David.

thinker

[Jaime]

In the rabbinic interpretation of the Law there were and are priorities. If one is hungry as David was, Jesus said in affect eating in David's case took precedence over ceremomy. Just as Jesus said if your donkey is in a ditch on the Sabbath get him out. If your neighbor needs you, help him. The sabbath was meant as a blessing not as a curse. if Jesus broke the sabbath as God intended, he would have clearly sinned and he never did.

In that day it was common to test a rabbi's yoke or interpretation of Torah, by asking him which commandment was the greatest. Some said Sabbath, some would say another law. In a conflict such as doing good on the Sabbath, a decision had to be made. When Jesus was asked what was the greatest commandment, he said Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart.......... and the second most important was to love thy neighbor as thy self.

[thethinker]

In the Law there are priorities. If one is hungry as David was, Jesus said in affect eating in David's case took precedence over ceromy. Just as Jesus said if your donkey is in a ditch on the Sabbath get him out. If your neighbor needs you, help him. The sabbath was meant as a blessing not as a curse.
if Jeaus broke the sabbath as God intended, he would have clearly sinned and he never did.

If I witness a child being forced into a car and kidnapped and I run a red light to catch up to get the license plate number I still have broken the letter of the law. Even though it may be for the better good I still would be breaking the law.

Jesus broke the letter of the law. John CLEARLY said that Jesus broke the sabbath.

thinker

[Jaime]

If he broke God intended purpose in the law, he sinned. He didn't.

[Jaime]

We can't quote Jesus saying he didn't come to abolish the law and then proceed to defend that he did. Fulfilling it did not mean it was gone. Fulfilling it meant he filled up the law that had been emptied by the Pharisees perversion. This is clear in the context of the surrounding scripture context.

[thethinker]

If he broke God intended purpose in the law, he sinned. He didn't.

He did not sin because He was "Lord of the sabbath."

thinker

[thethinker]

We can't quote Jesus saying he didn't come to abolish the law and then proceed to defend that he did. Fulfilling it did not mean it was gone. Fulfilling it meant he filled up the law that had been emptied by the Pharisees perversion. This is clear in the context of the surrounding scripture context.

He meant that He did not come to abolish it without fulfilling it first. Once fulfilled it passes away or it is not fulfilled.

thinker

[Jaime]

He did bot come to abolish it at all. The problem is with the word fulfill. If it is interpretted correctly, as the Hebrew idiom that Jesus used presented, it clearly means to properly interpret as he did in the surrounding texts, comprising the context.

It would be similar to us saying today, "I did not come to chew your butt out, though I did come to make sure your head is on straight." In 2000 years, if the meaning of those idioms were not grasped, the interpretation might get a little weird.

[Lively Stone]

Jesus broke what the Jews of His day considered law but it was the Talmud---that book of minutia law-wise, that the Pharisees were so anal about that Jesus had derision for.

[gospel]

Gospel, I don't see Jesus saying the Sabbath was made for man was evidence of him disregarding it. The Sabbath being for man doesn't remove it's status as a blessing TO man from God. Jesus didn't break the Sabbath that God ordained, he properly interpreted it's meaning to be that it was to be a blessing to man. Not some onerous burdensome checklist.

God's intention from the beginning was that the Sabbath was to be for man, to rest and spiritually recharge.

Hi Jaime

The scriptures tell us Jesus was working on the Sabbath day.

Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, "AND I, TOO, AM WORKING.

[gospel]

In the rabbinic interpretation of the Law there were and are priorities. If one is hungry as David was, Jesus said in affect eating in David's case took precedence over ceremomy. Just as Jesus said if your donkey is in a ditch on the Sabbath get him out. If your neighbor needs you, help him. The sabbath was meant as a blessing not as a curse. if Jesus broke the sabbath as God intended, he would have clearly sinned and he never did.

In that day it was common to test a rabbi's yoke or interpretation of Torah, by asking him which commandment was the greatest. Some said Sabbath, some would say another law. In a conflict such as doing good on the Sabbath, a decision had to be made. When Jesus was asked what was the greatest commandment, he said Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart.......... and the second most important was to love thy neighbor as thy self.

As I have stated, Jesus observed the Sabbath AS WAS HIS CUSTOM!

If the custom conflicted with the plans and purpose of God and / or subverted or hindered Jesus ministry or mission the Custom was brought into obedience to the Perfect Will of the Father
The Perfect Will of God from the foundations of the world is that Jesus be our Sabbath Rest!

[thethinker]

Jesus broke what the Jews of His day considered law but it was the Talmud---that book of minutia law-wise, that the Pharisees were so anal about that Jesus had derision for.

It does not say that.  It says that Jesus broke the sabbath. If He was Lord of it, then He could break it.

Jesus said that David broke the sabbath. David broke it for the better good and was justified. But Jesus still said that David "BROKE" it. 

Why don't you just accept the testimony of the inspired scripture? John said that Jesus broke the sabbath. He was Lord of it. Case closed!

thinker

[Lively Stone]

Jesus broke what the Jews of His day considered law but it was the Talmud---that book of minutia law-wise, that the Pharisees were so anal about that Jesus had derision for.

It does not say that.  It says that Jesus broke the sabbath. If He was Lord of it, then He could break it.

Jesus said that David broke the sabbath. David broke it for the better good and was justified. But Jesus still said that David "BROKE" it.  

Why don't you just accept the testimony of the inspired scripture? John said that Jesus broke the sabbath. He was Lord of it. Case closed!

thinker

The Talmud heaped loads of rules and guilt upon the Jew, adding commandment upon commandment to what God had already laid down.

I don't deny that Jesus proved the Sabbath as a religious golden calf. I am glad He did, for He is our Sabbath now.

[thethinker]

Gospel, I don't see Jesus saying the Sabbath was made for man was evidence of him disregarding it. The Sabbath being for man doesn't remove it's status as a blessing TO man from God. Jesus didn't break the Sabbath that God ordained, he properly interpreted it's meaning to be that it was to be a blessing to man. Not some onerous burdensome checklist.

God's intention from the beginning was that the Sabbath was to be for man, to rest and spiritually recharge.

Hi Jaime

The scriptures tell us Jesus was working on the Sabbath day.

Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, "AND I, TOO, AM WORKING.

[gospel]

Jesus only broke the Pharisees perverted sabbath. He did not break God's sabbath. The Pharisees had built innumerable fences around God's simple command ao as to make Gos's sabbath unrecognizable.

You should read that post by Worshipping Jesus one more time in fact you should read it again and again because the verses he cited from John 5 are spot on perfect for this topic because they focus in the key thing many of you seem to forget

JESUS IS GOD and GOD CANNOT SIN

JESUS is the image of the character and substance of God, when you have seen Him you have seen the Father

Whatever Jesus did His Father did

What Jesus did was observe the Sabbath as was His Custom

Customs are allowable as long as they do not conflict with God's Perfect Will

Jesus is God and as such Was Always Reflecting the Perfect Will of God

[thethinker]

Jesus broke what the Jews of His day considered law but it was the Talmud---that book of minutia law-wise, that the Pharisees were so anal about that Jesus had derision for.

It does not say that.  It says that Jesus broke the sabbath. If He was Lord of it, then He could break it.

Jesus said that David broke the sabbath. David broke it for the better good but was justified. But Jesus still said that David "BROKE" it.  

Why don't you just accept the testimony of the inspired scripture? John said that Jesus broke the sabbath. He was Lord of it. Case closed!

thinker

The Talmud heaped loads of rules and guilt upon the Jew, adding commandment upon commandment to what God had already laid down.

I gave you the inspired words of Jesus when He said that David "BROKE" the sabbath but was justified. Jesus still said that David "BROKE" it. I gave you the inspired word of John who said that Jesus "BROKE" the sabbath.  But you give me the Talmud.

I give you bread and you give me a stone. Why?

thinker

[Amo]

Hi Jaime

The scriptures tell us Jesus was working on the Sabbath day.

Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, "AND I, TOO, AM WORKING.

[LightHammer]

Hi Jaime

The scriptures tell us Jesus was working on the Sabbath day.

Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, "AND I, TOO, AM WORKING.

[Amo]

He meant that He did not come to abolish it without fulfilling it first. Once fulfilled it passes away or it is not fulfilled.

thinker

NO He did not mean that.  If He did, that would have been easy enough for Him to say, as you just did.  Careful brother, you are putting words into Christ's mouth.  Not very wise.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matt 5:17-19 (KJV)

Your words are in direct contradiction to the words of Christ above.

[gospel]

Hi Jaime

The scriptures tell us Jesus was working on the Sabbath day.

Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, "AND I, TOO, AM WORKING.

[Amo]

It does not say that.  It says that Jesus broke the sabbath. If He was Lord of it, then He could break it.

Jesus said that David broke the sabbath. David broke it for the better good and was justified. But Jesus still said that David "BROKE" it.

Why don't you just accept the testimony of the inspired scripture? John said that Jesus broke the sabbath. He was Lord of it. Case closed!

thinker

Stop twisting scripture to your own end.  The Jews accused Christ of breaking the commandment, but He had not.  Neither did David, which was the whole point of what Christ was saying.  David was on the run from Saul who wanted to kill him.  It is and always has been lawful to do good on the Sabbath.  The Jews though had perverted this truth, and allowed the Sabbath to become a burden and cause of suffering through their demand of overly stringent rules and regulations pertaining to the same.