Understanding who Jesus was, the Creator and Lord of the Sabbath.

[larry2]

Jesus is not a "day" nor is He ever symbolically/metaphorically linked to being a "day

[Hobie]

Jesus is not a "day" nor is He ever symbolically/metaphorically linked to being a "day

[thethinker]

Hobie wrote:

Jesus is not a "day" nor is He ever symbolically/metaphorically linked to being a "day

[larry2]

Jesus is not a "day" nor is He ever symbolically/metaphorically linked to being a "day

[Palmtree77]

Jesus is not a "day" nor is He ever symbolically/metaphorically linked to being a "day

[gospel]

there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

Likewise

There is no day given under heaven by which a man can attain God's Rest

For there is no power ascribed to a day of the week

Days do not exist in Eternity

They are but signs given to us to teach us and guide us to Truth

This is why Days, Years and Seasons are used so loosely in scripture to describe dispensations, ages and epochs

God does not ascribe power to days, nor numbers nor symbols they are given as SIGNS pointing to the Truth

I present to You Jesus

THE TRUTH of everything in the OT, every sign, every shadow and every type all of which were God's Way of pointing to His Savior, His way of sharing His Gospel of His Christ!
This is the way it was preached to them of Old

Jesus is the Lord who makes you Holy

Anyone who thinks Saturday is what makes them Holy they are truly amiss and sadly mistaken

[thethinker]

gospel wrote:

Anyone who thinks Saturday is what makes them Holy they are truly amiss and sadly mistaken

Amen! Jesus makes us holy and the most miserable sinners can plainly see it.

thinker

[Palmtree77]

But gospel,

you sound as though you are saying it is not good to follow the command of the Lord of the Sabbath?

[gospel]

But gospel,

you sound as though you are saying it is not good to follow the command of the Lord of the Sabbath?

What I am saying is the command regarding purpose of the sabbath "day" has been fulfilled

in Christ Jesus

The purpose is in the command

GIVEN AS A SIGN SO YOU WILL KNOW I AM THE LORD WHO MAKES YOU HOLY

A SIGN

A SIGN OF THE COMING OF CHRIST

What do you think Paul was saying?

You are trying to earn favor with God by observing certain days or months or seasons or years.
Galatians 4:10

[larry2]

But gospel,

you sound as though you are saying it is not good to follow the command of the Lord of the Sabbath?

We can try and follow the commands of the Lord if one thinks they can do better than Paul did in Romans Chapter Seven, but why pretend you're doing it when you can't. If it were possible for us to follow the commandments, Jesus would not have had to die.

Galatians 2:21  I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. You might say that you don't follow the law to be justified, or for righteousness; do you still sin? Why if you do?

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 
Galatians 3:2-5 

2  This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
 
3  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4  Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5  He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
 
 

[Hobie]

But gospel,

you sound as though you are saying it is not good to follow the command of the Lord of the Sabbath?

We can try and follow the commands of the Lord if one thinks they can do better than Paul did in Romans Chapter Seven, but why pretend you're doing it when you can't. If it were possible for us to follow the commandments, Jesus would not have had to die.

Galatians 2:21  I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. You might say that you don't follow the law to be justified, or for righteousness; do you still sin? Why if you do?

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 
Galatians 3:2-5 

2  This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
 
3  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4  Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5  He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
 
 

Now my brother you are talking Sanctification. Of our own, we cannot do anything to save ourselves and working to keep the Law will not save you, and we fail everytime. So this is where when we truly accept Christ, we take it to Him and let Christ through the Holy Spirit write the Creators Commandments in our hearts and minds, and experience rebirth and receive the sinless mind of the new man (our faculties of mind and body are sanctified, transformed and come complete with all the righteous fruits and attributes of God's character) and enables us to abide in Jesus and partake of the divine nature and grow in grace and mature in the fruits of the Spirit.

[Palmtree77]

But gospel,

you sound as though you are saying it is not good to follow the command of the Lord of the Sabbath?

What I am saying is the command regarding purpose of the sabbath "day" has been fulfilled

in Christ Jesus

The purpose is in the command

GIVEN AS A SIGN SO YOU WILL KNOW I AM THE LORD WHO MAKES YOU HOLY

A SIGN

A SIGN OF THE COMING OF CHRIST

What do you think Paul was saying?

You are trying to earn favor with God by observing certain days or months or seasons or years.
Galatians 4:10

Paul was speaking of the Law of Moses, not the Sabbath.He was preaching against Collective Salvation in which we do what we do because of the commandments of men, not the instruction of Christ through the Spirit.

[Palmtree77]

We can try and follow the commands of the Lord if one thinks they can do better than Paul did in Romans Chapter Seven, but why pretend you're doing it when you can't. If it were possible for us to follow the commandments, Jesus would not have had to die.

The commandments are in Christ, Faith in Christ at the Cross keeps the commandments.

Jesus lives and because he lives, the commandments can be kept in us by Faith in him.

The Law of the mind abides by the Cross which is the way to Life.

Romans 7:25 "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."


This is the work of FAITH NOT FLESH.By the Cross we have this Victory.

Glory to the King!!!

[Hobie]

But gospel,

you sound as though you are saying it is not good to follow the command of the Lord of the Sabbath?

What I am saying is the command regarding purpose of the sabbath "day" has been fulfilled

in Christ Jesus

The purpose is in the command

GIVEN AS A SIGN SO YOU WILL KNOW I AM THE LORD WHO MAKES YOU HOLY

A SIGN

A SIGN OF THE COMING OF CHRIST

What do you think Paul was saying?

You are trying to earn favor with God by observing certain days or months or seasons or years.
Galatians 4:10

Paul was speaking of the Law of Moses, not the Sabbath.He was preaching against Collective Salvation in which we do what we do because of the commandments of men, not the instruction of Christ through the Spirit.

The truth is being unveiled before their very eyes, but everyone has a choice whether to lend a ear and hear and open and see......

Now lets go back now to the beginning and look at that. Adam and Eve were not and could not be classified as Jewish when the Creator gave them the seveth day for the Sabbath. "God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it" (Genesis 2:3) before sin entered. "Sanctified" means "to be set apart for holy use." So you have to ask yourself, was the Sabbath only for the Jews or all manking, as the only ones in the Garden of Eden for whom the Sabbath was "set apart

[Jaime]

Hobie, they don't believe scripture like that. Especially like Zechariah 14 that says we will be celebrating the Feast of Sukkot in Jerusalem worshipping Jesus reigning as king after he touches down on the mount of Olives and the mountain splits from East to West.

[Palmtree77]

Hobie, they don't believe scripture like that. Especially like Zechariah 14 that says we will be celebrating the Feast of Sukkot in Jerusalem worshipping Jesus reigning as king after he touches down on the mount of Olives and the mountain splits from East to West.

Praise the Lord Jaime, 

Isn't it cool how the Lord through our satellites let man find a fault line there?

He only confirms his word more and more.

[thethinker]

Hobie, they don't believe scripture like that. Especially like Zechariah 14 that says we will be celebrating the Feast of Sukkot in Jerusalem worshipping Jesus reigning as king after he touches down on the mount of Olives and the mountain splits from East to West.

1. Jesus is DISTINGUISHED from Jehovah throughout Zechariah:

Zechariah 14 says NOTHING about Jesus descending to the Mt. of Olives. It says that JEHOVAH's feet will stand on the Mt. of Olives. Jesus is DISTINGUISHED from Jehovah in the context:

7 " Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd,
     Against the Man who stands next to me,

[jojo50]

I'm sorry you refuse to believe the scriptures, which IS the words of Jehovah God. You want to believe Jesus said he was equal to the Father, based on (John 5:18), Jesus NEVER said he was. He was showing the reasons why the false ministers of his day wanted him dead. It was THEM, who took it as what Jesus meant. Also you kind of make what you say contradictory. Because you first say this...

[Palmtree77]

You can mention Translator error, but I prefer to trust his word through the AV that says this

From the Interlinear.

Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day on the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the East; and the Mount of Olives shall divided from it's middle, from the east and to the west, a very great valley."

Jesus created it and he will finish it when he returns.

If you say He has fulfilled this, you are right, but if you say he does not yet have to fulfill that is error.

His word yet lives, what you're saying means it doesn't.  Either it does, or it doesn't.

Which is it?

Revelations 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

[Palmtree77]

I'm sorry you refuse to believe the scriptures, which IS the words of Jehovah God. You want to believe Jesus said he was equal to the Father, based on (John 5:18), Jesus NEVER said he was. He was showing the reasons why the false ministers of his day wanted him dead. It was THEM, who took it as what Jesus meant. Also you kind of make what you say contradictory. Because you first say this...

[Consumingfire]

Hobie, they don't believe scripture like that. Especially like Zechariah 14 that says we will be celebrating the Feast of Sukkot in Jerusalem worshipping Jesus reigning as king after he touches down on the mount of Olives and the mountain splits from East to West.

1. Jesus is DISTINGUISHED from Jehovah throughout Zechariah:

Zechariah 14 says NOTHING about Jesus descending to the Mt. of Olives. It says that JEHOVAH's feet will stand on the Mt. of Olives. Jesus is DISTINGUISHED from Jehovah in the context:

7 " Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd,
     Against the Man who stands next to me,

[thethinker]

You can mention Translator error, but I prefer to trust his word through the AV that says this

From the Interlinear.

Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day on the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the East; and the Mount of Olives shall divided from it's middle, from the east and to the west, a very great valley."

Jesus created it and he will finish it when he returns.

If you say He has fulfilled this, you are right, but if you say he does not yet have to fulfill that is error.

His word yet lives, what you're saying means it doesn't.  Either it does, or it doesn't.

Which is it?

Revelations 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

It says nothing about Jesus' feet standing on the Mt. of Olives. It says that Jehovah's feet would stand on the Mt. of Olives. Jesus had just been distinguished from Jehovah in 13:7. Jehovah "came" from Sinai and the people "sat at His feet" to hear the law. No credible commentator says that Jehovah literally had feet in that instance.

The Hebrew says a "great ravine." http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/zec14.pdf  

A ravine is not a valley. The translators were interpreting. A ravine implies nothing more than a fault line. This fault line is the geological cause of the earthquake that caused the veil of the temple to be rent when Jesus was hanging on the cross. The tombs of many saints were opened because of the earthquake and they came out of them.

The prophecy was fulfilled in Zechariah's time. You believe the futuristic myth.

thinker

[Jaime]

Horse hockey. Jesus Is the image of the invisible God. He Is Jehovah. and Zecharia 14 has not been fulfilled yet.

[Palmtree77]

You can mention Translator error, but I prefer to trust his word through the AV that says this

From the Interlinear.

Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day on the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the East; and the Mount of Olives shall divided from it's middle, from the east and to the west, a very great valley."

Jesus created it and he will finish it when he returns.

If you say He has fulfilled this, you are right, but if you say he does not yet have to fulfill that is error.

His word yet lives, what you're saying means it doesn't.  Either it does, or it doesn't.

Which is it?

Revelations 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

It says nothing about Jesus' feet standing on the Mt. of Olives. It says that Jehovah's feet would stand on the Mt. of Olives. Jesus had just been distinguished from Jehovah in 13:7. Jehovah "came" from Sinai and the people "sat at His feet" to hear the law. No credible commentator says that Jehovah literally had feet in that instance.

The Hebrew says a "great ravine." http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/zec14.pdf 

A ravine is not a valley. The translators were interpreting. A ravine implies nothing more than a fault line. This fault line is the geological cause of the earthquake that caused the veil of the temple to be rent when Jesus was hanging on the cross. The tombs of many saints were opened because of the earthquake and they came out of them.

The prophecy was fulfilled in Zechariah's time. You believe the futuristic myth.

thinker

I agree except...

There is yet to be an earthquake

Revelations 16:18 "And the there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great."




This is the cause..

Revelations 14:And I looked, and lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads."


Remember John lived in the past, but was caught up in the spirit.

He was taken out of the dimension of time thus the events as depicted in the Bible don't have to be in chronological order, hence the earthquake being mentioned in Chapter 16 and the cause in Chapter 14 separately.



I believe this is where the actual concept of Time Travel comes from, another subject.

[thethinker]

Horse hockey. Jesus Is the image of the invisible God. He Is Jehovah. and Zecharia 14 has not been fulfilled yet.

In Zechariah Jesus is distinguished from Jehovah. He is the man who "stands next" to Jehovah. Read the whole book and you will see that Christ is distinguished from Jehovah throughout. You cannot just invoke Chrit's deity to the exclusion of distinctions in a given context. For instance, Isaiah 53 says, "Jehovah laid on Him (Christ) the iniquity of us all." Are not Christ and Jehovah distinguished by Isaiah?

Your arguments for a physical coming of Christ from Zechariah 14 are invalid because of 13:7.

thinker

[Palmtree77]

In the rabbinic interpretation of the Law there were and are priorities. If one is hungry as David was, Jesus said in affect eating in David's case took precedence over ceremomy. Just as Jesus said if your donkey is in a ditch on the Sabbath get him out. If your neighbor needs you, help him. The sabbath was meant as a blessing not as a curse. if Jesus broke the sabbath as God intended, he would have clearly sinned and he never did.

In that day it was common to test a rabbi's yoke or interpretation of Torah, by asking him which commandment was the greatest. Some said Sabbath, some would say another law. In a conflict such as doing good on the Sabbath, a decision had to be made. When Jesus was asked what was the greatest commandment, he said Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart.......... and the second most important was to love thy neighbor as thy self.

As I have stated, Jesus observed the Sabbath AS WAS HIS CUSTOM!

If the custom conflicted with the plans and purpose of God and / or subverted or hindered Jesus ministry or mission the Custom was brought into obedience to the Perfect Will of the Father
The Perfect Will of God from the foundations of the world is that Jesus be our Sabbath Rest!

As should be our custom if persuaded on our own mind.


Jesus is our Cross, not Sabbath rest.

[gospel]

Horse hockey. Jesus Is the image of the invisible God. He Is Jehovah. and Zecharia 14 has not been fulfilled yet.

THANK YOU!!!!!!

Christ Jesus is God, Christ Jesus is the Sabbath Rest, Christ Jesus is the Passover Lamb, Christ Jesus is the Jubilee

CHRIST JESUS IS THE ALL IN ALL!

HE IS THE WORD MADE FLESH, WHO WAS WITH GOD AND WHO IS GOD

Through whom all things were made

The 1st, the author, the beginning , the last, the finisher, perfecter and the end

If anyone does not understand that means He IS God, all the reading and citing verses in the world cannot help them to understand or save them

Colossians 2:9

New Living Translation (©2007)
For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.

English Standard Version (©2001)
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

International Standard Version (©2008)
because all the essence of deity inhabits him in bodily form.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
All of God lives in Christ's body,

[Palmtree77]

Horse hockey. Jesus Is the image of the invisible God. He Is Jehovah. and Zecharia 14 has not been fulfilled yet.

THANK YOU!!!!!!

Christ Jesus is God, Christ Jesus is the Sabbath Rest, Christ Jesus is the Passover Lamb, Christ Jesus is the Jubilee

CHRIST JESUS IS THE ALL IN ALL!

HE IS THE WORD MADE FLESH, WHO WAS WITH GOD AND WHO IS GOD

Through whom all things were made

The 1st, the author, the beginning , the last, the finisher, perfecter and the end

If anyone does not understand that means He IS God, all the reading and citing verses in the world cannot help them to understand or save them

Colossians 2:9

New Living Translation (©2007)
For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.

English Standard Version (©2001)
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

International Standard Version (©2008)
because all the essence of deity inhabits him in bodily form.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
All of God lives in Christ's body,

Amen,

so then please tell me, who do we trust for Salvation? God or his word?

[Jaime]

Horse hockey. Jesus Is the image of the invisible God. He Is Jehovah. and Zecharia 14 has not been fulfilled yet.

In Zechariah Jesus is distinguished from Jehovah. He is the man who "stands next" to Jehovah. Read the whole book and you will see that Christ is distinguished from Jehovah throughout. You cannot just invoke Chrit's deity to the exclusion of distinctions in a given context. For instance, Isaiah 53 says, "Jehovah laid on Him (Christ) the iniquity of us all." Are not Christ and Jehovah distinguished by Isaiah?

Your arguments for a physical coming of Christ from Zechariah 14 are invalid because of 13:7.

thinker

Double Horse Hockey.

God himself came to tabernacle among us in the body of Jesus. Jesus is always the embodiment of God. The visible manifestation of Jehovah. I contend it was Jesus who walked in front of Moses as Moses was protected in the cleft of the rock.

[fish153]

I'm sorry you refuse to believe the scriptures, which IS the words of Jehovah God. You want to believe Jesus said he was equal to the Father, based on (John 5:18), Jesus NEVER said he was. He was showing the reasons why the false ministers of his day wanted him dead. It was THEM, who took it as what Jesus meant. Also you kind of make what you say contradictory. Because you first say this...

[Jaime]

Jesus was the "I AM" in the burning bush.

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM."

And he is the Yahweh of Zechariah 14.

[thethinker]

Horse hockey. Jesus Is the image of the invisible God. He Is Jehovah. and Zecharia 14 has not been fulfilled yet.

In Zechariah Jesus is distinguished from Jehovah. He is the man who "stands next" to Jehovah. Read the whole book and you will see that Christ is distinguished from Jehovah throughout. You cannot just invoke Chrit's deity to the exclusion of distinctions in a given context. For instance, Isaiah 53 says, "Jehovah laid on Him (Christ) the iniquity of us all." Are not Christ and Jehovah distinguished by Isaiah?

Your arguments for a physical coming of Christ from Zechariah 14 are invalid because of 13:7.

thinker

Double Horse Hockey.

God himself came to tabernacle among us in the body of Jesus. Jesus is always the embodiment of God. The visible manifestation of Jehovah. I contend it was Jesus who walked in front of Moses as Moses was protected in the cleft of the rock.

Jaime,

Each reference to Jehovah in the scripture must be interpreted within it own context. Beginning with 13:7 and following Jesus is DISTINGUISHED from Jehovah. Let's assume for the sake of argument that Jehovah in chapter 14 is Jesus. This still  cannot prove a physical coming for His coming from Mount Sinai was not a physical coming. Yet it says that He "came" and that the people "sat at His feet" to receive the law.

Christ is distinguished from Jehovah throughout Zechariah. In 1:12 the Angel of Jehovah (Christ) addresses Jehovah saying, "O JEHOVAH of armies, how long will YOU YOURSELF not show mercy to Jerusalem?"

So the Futurists got nuttin my friend! Furthermote, the end of chapter 14 says that the people will offer animal sacrifices. This necessarily puts the fulfillment of the prophecy in the past. God will NEVER bring sacrifices back.

I contend it was Jesus who walked in front of Moses as Moses was protected in the cleft of the rock.

This would not justify your putting words into Zechatiah's mouth.

Your conclusions fail on three counts:

1. The prophecy says that JEHOVAH would stand on the Mt. of Olives and the Shepherd (Christ) had just been distinguished from Jehovah as He is distinguished from Jehovah throughout Zechariah.

2. The original Hebrew requires no more than a fault line run through the Mt. of Olives. There is a fault line that runs through the Mt. of Olives. Ergo....

3. Paul said that Jesus would descend to the lower skies and that His people would be "caught up" to meet Him. This denies a coming to the earth.

thinker

[Jaime]

Christ is no Angel, he IS Jehovah.

And just a fault won't cut it, ..........ergo:

Zech14:4 His feet will stand in that day on the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in two, from east to west, making a very great valley. Half of the mountain will move toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Just saying ergo.

[Jaime]

God and the Alpha and Omega are one in the same to dwell with his people here in the New Jerusalem that will come down to the New Earth. Jesus will most certainly set foot on the earth again.

Revelation:
21:2 I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready like a bride adorned for her husband.
21:3 I heard a loud voice out of heaven saying, "Behold, God's dwelling is with people, and he will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
21:4 He will wipe away from them every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; neither will there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more. The first things have passed away."
21:5 He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." He said, "Write, for these words of God are faithful and true."
21:6 He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give freely to him who is thirsty from the spring of the water of life.

[gospel]

Jesus was the "I AM" in the burning bush.

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM."

And he is the Yahweh of Zechariah 14.

Mucho manna to you my friend on this fine day

JESUS IS GOD!