The Holy Spirit is The Father ----- and The Son :)

[BornToReign]

 ::smile::Isaiah 38:16 CJB
Adonai, by these things people live; in all these is the life of my spirit. You're restoring my health and giving me life


And of Jesus Christ, the birth was thus: For his mother Mary having been betrothed to Joseph, before their coming together she was found to have conceived from the Holy Spirit -Matt.1:18YLT


1 Corinthians 15:45 CJB
In fact, the Tanakh says so: Adam, the first man, became a living human being;o but the last "Adam" has become a life-giving Spirit.

Romans 8:10 CJB
However, if the Messiah is in you, then, on the one hand, the body is dead because of sin; but, on the other hand, the Spirit is giving life because God considers you righteous.

John 3:6 ESV
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The giver of life....

For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. -John 5:21

[LightHammer]

The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. He is God the Holy Spirit not God the Father.

If the Holy Spirit is the Father how can He proceed from Himself?

[BornToReign]

Matthew 16:16 ESV
Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

2 Corinthians 6:16 ESV
What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

[LightHammer]

Matthew 16:16 ESV
Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

2 Corinthians 6:16 ESV
What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

God the Holy Spirit not God the Father.

[BornToReign]

Acts 7:51 ESV
"You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.

Matthew 1:18 ESV
[The Birth of Jesus Christ] Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 1:20 ESV
But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

[BornToReign]

John 5:21 ESV
For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.

For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, -Col.2:19

For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell -Col.1:19


Romans 8:11 ESV
If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. -John 5:21

That is if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you.

[BornToReign]

Matthew 11:27 ESV
All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

[gospel]

The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. He is God the Holy Spirit not God the Father.

If the Holy Spirit is the Father how can He proceed from Himself?

Succinct Sound and clear without question ...

its like why would the Spirit even write The Word distinguishing between Himself and the Father
If there were no distinction He'd just recorded God

God hovered above the water

God descended in bodily form upon Jesus

I will pray the Father that He should come as Another comforter

etc etc

If you apply this to every place the Holy Spirit is mentioned

It totally alters scripture to make a very very weak unsubstantiated point

[daq]

Matthew 16:16 ESV
Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

2 Corinthians 6:16 ESV
What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

God the Holy Spirit not God the Father.

Do you not recognize the difference between the names Theou and Christou in the sacred texts of Scripture? What ever happened to discipleship? None of the Gospels contradict the others and each one is true: Therefore all four of them must be meshed together as one, like the four levels of a four story house viewed as a blueprint from above where the Architect sees every level at one time. If one plan does not show a certain section of the drawing then another plan does. Matthew clearly states that the Spirit of the Theou descended upon Christ. No other Gospel tells us exactly who the Spirit is because MATTHEW ALREADY TOLD US IN THE FIRST BOOK OF THE NEW TESTAMENT.

It was the Pneuma of the Theou which descended like a dove and lighted upon Christ Yeshua. The Theou is YHWH the Father.

Matthew 3:16 KJV
16.  And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Matthew 3:16 TUA
16.  Baptistheis de ho Iesous euthus anebe apo tou hudatos, kai idou,eneochthesan auto hoi ouranoi, kai eiden to Pneuma tou Theou katabainon hosei peristeran kai erchomenon epauton.

Matthew 3:16
16.  And being immersed, the Yeshua went up straightway out of the water: and, behold, were opened unto him the heavens, and he saw the Spirit of the Theou descending as a dove, and lighting upon him.

You either believe the Scripture or you do not ...  

[gospel]

The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. He is God the Holy Spirit not God the Father.

If the Holy Spirit is the Father how can He proceed from Himself?

Succinct Sound and clear without question ...

its like why would the Spirit even write The Word distinguishing between Himself and the Father
If there were no distinction He'd just recorded God

God hovered above the water

God descended in bodily form upon Jesus

I will pray the Father that He should come as Another comforter

etc etc

If you apply this to every place the Holy Spirit is mentioned

It totally alters scripture to make a very very weak insubstantial point

The Holy Spirit is certainly God

But He is not the Father

The distinction is clear and without question from Genesis to Revelation

[daq]

The fourth Gospel proves the Theou is YHWH the Father ~

John 1:1-3 KJV
1.  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2.  The same was in the beginning with God.

Notice in the Greek Transliterated that the second time the word "theos" is written it is not capitalized. This is because the same word also means DEITY or DIVINITY.

John 1:1-2 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented Bible)
1.  En arche en ho Logos, kai ho Logos en pros ton Theon, kai theos en ho Logos.
2.  Houtos en en archepros ton Theon.

The Literal Bible w/vertical Strong's #'s recognizes this FACT ~

John 1:1 LIT (Literal Bible w/vertical Strong's Ref.#'s)
1.
  |1722| In
  |9999| {the}
  |0746| beginning
  |2258| was
  |3588| the
  |3056| Word,
  |2532| and
  |3588| the
  |3056| Word
  |2258| was
  |4314| with
  |3588| -
  |2316| God,
  |2532| and
  |2316| deity
  |2258| was
  |3588| the
  |3056| Word.

Original Strong's Ref. #2316
Romanized  theos
Pronounced theh'-os
of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with GSN3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:
KJV--X exceeding, God, god[-ly, -ward].

Original Strong's Ref. #4314
Romanized  pros
Pronounced pros
a strengthened form of GSN4253; a preposition of direction; forward to, i.e. toward (with the genitive case the side of, i.e. pertaining to; with the dative case by the side of, i.e. near to; usually with the accusative case the place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation, i.e. whither or for which it is predicated):
KJV--about, according to, against, among, at, because of, before, between, ([where-])by, for, X at thy house, in, for intent, nigh unto, of, which pertain to, that, to (the end that), X together, to ([you]) -ward, unto, with(-in). In comparison it denotes essentially the same applications, namely, motion towards, accession to, or nearness at.

John 1:1-2 TUA - Rendering
1.  En arche en ho Logos, kai ho Logos en pros ton Theon, kai theos en ho Logos.
1.  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [the side of] the Theon, and deity was the Word.
2.  Houtos en en arche pros ton Theon.
2.  This One was in the beginning with [the side of] the Theon.

[daq]

The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. He is God the Holy Spirit not God the Father.

If the Holy Spirit is the Father how can He proceed from Himself?

Succinct Sound and clear without question ...

its like why would the Spirit even write The Word distinguishing between Himself and the Father
If there were no distinction He'd just recorded God

God hovered above the water

God descended in bodily form upon Jesus

I will pray the Father that He should come as Another comforter

etc etc

If you apply this to every place the Holy Spirit is mentioned

It totally alters scripture to make a very very weak unsubstantiated point

Your statement is false logic based on the reasoning of man.
YHWH is omnipresent: The three heavens cannot contain him  ~

1 Kings 8:26-29 KJV
26.  And now, O God of Israel, let thy word, I pray thee, be verified, which thou spakest unto thy servant David my father.
27.  But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
28.  Yet have thou respect unto the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O Lord my God, to hearken unto the cry and to the prayer, which thy servant prayeth before thee to day:
29.  That thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, even toward the place of which thou hast said, My name shall be there: that thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which thy servant shall make toward this place.

In the Beginning was the Word:
They Two cannot be separated in the Beginning ...
Thus the Name of YHWH need not appear until Genesis 2  ~

Genesis 1:1-31
1.  In the beginning 'Elohiym created the heaven and the earth.
2.  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of 'Elohiym moved upon the face of the waters.
3.  And 'Elohiym said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4.  And 'Elohiym saw the light, that it was good: and 'Elohiym divided the light from the darkness.
5.  And 'Elohiym called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6.  And 'Elohiym said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7.  And 'Elohiym made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8.  And 'Elohiym called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9.  And 'Elohiym said, Let the waters under the Heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10.  And 'Elohiym called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and 'Elohiym saw that it was good.
11.  And 'Elohiym said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12.  And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and 'Elohiym saw that it was good.
13.  And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14.  And 'Elohiym said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15.  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16.  And 'Elohiym made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17.  And 'Elohiym set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18.  And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and 'Elohiym saw that it was good.
19.  And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20.  And 'Elohiym said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21.  And 'Elohiym created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and 'Elohiym saw that it was good.
22.  And 'Elohiym blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23.  And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24.  And 'Elohiym said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25.  And 'Elohiym made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and 'Elohiym saw that it was good.
26.  And 'Elohiym said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27.  So 'Elohiym created man in his own image, in the image of 'Elohiym created he him; male and female created he them.
28.  And 'Elohiym blessed them, and 'Elohiym said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29.  And 'Elohiym said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30.  And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31.  And 'Elohiym saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 2:1-4
1.  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2.  And on the seventh day 'Elohiym ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3.  And 'Elohiym blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which 'Elohiym created and made.
4.  These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that YHWH 'Elohiym made the earth and the heavens.

[daq]

Galatians 1:1 KJV
1.  Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Galatians 1:1 TUA
1.  Paulos apostolos ouk ap anthropon oude dianthropou alla dia Iesou Christou kai Theou Patros touegeirantos auton ek nekron,

Galatians 1:1 Literal Rendering
1.  Paulos, an apostle - not from men, nor through man, contrariwise through Yeshua Christou, and Theou the Father, who did raise him out from the dead;

 

[daq]

Hi BTR  
Do you know why the difference in the following two passages?

Matthew 10:16-20 KJV
16.  Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17.  But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18.  And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19.  But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20.  For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mark 13:9-11 KJV
9.  But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10.  And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11.  But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

HINT: TIMING IS EVERYTHING!  

 

[BornToReign]

Hi BTR  
Do you know why the difference in the following two passages?

Matthew 10:16-20 KJV
16.  Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17.  But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18.  And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19.  But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20.  For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mark 13:9-11 KJV
9.  But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10.  And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11.  But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

HINT: TIMING IS EVERYTHING!  

 

Hi daq  

Been off a couple days, my modem got surged in a storm and I had to wait on a replacement.

I would say that the differences are there because one was for them literally and physically as truth.  
The other passage is meant for us and understood figuratively and spiritually as truth.

[daq]

Hi BTR  
Do you know why the difference in the following two passages?

Matthew 10:16-20 KJV
16.  Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17.  But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18.  And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19.  But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20.  For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mark 13:9-11 KJV
9.  But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10.  And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11.  But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

HINT: TIMING IS EVERYTHING!  

 

Hi daq  

Been off a couple days, my modem got surged in a storm and I had to wait on a replacement.

I would say that the differences are there because one was for them literally and physically as truth.  
The other passage is meant for us and understood figuratively and spiritually as truth.

Remember the comments concerning John 7:39?  

John 7:37-39 KJV
37.  In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38.  He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39.  (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

The word "GIVEN" is not found in the text of John 7:39.
The translators simply "assumed" and added it:

John 7:39 TUA
39.  (Touto de eipen peri tou Pneumatos {*} ho emellonlambanein hoi pisteusantes eis auton, oupo gar en Pneuma, hoti Iesous oudepo edoxasthe.)
39.  (But this he spake concerning the Spirit {*} which was about to be received of those faithful-believing into him; because not yet was Spirit, for Yeshua not yet was glorified.)

John 7:37-39 YGB (Young's Literal Bible)
37.  And in the last, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, 'If any one doth thirst, let him come unto me and drink;
38.  he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;'
39.  and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

FOR NOT YET WAS [THE HOLY] SPIRIT
BECAUSE YESHUA WAS NOT YET GLORIFIED!

There is a difference between Spirit Holy and Holy Spirit, (the order of the words written in the original Greek). In Matt.10:20 the disciples are sent on a missionary journey, (before the Crucifixion of Christ). However, in Mrk.13:11 the comments concern the end of the age. I will quote here from the Greek TUA Transliterated Unaccented Bible just to show the importance of the order of the words in the Greek concerning "Pneumatos Hagiou" and how this fact is lost in the various translations into English. In the Gospel of Matthew the order of the words changes only AFTER the resurrection of Yeshua:

Matthew 1:18 TUA
18.  Tou de Iesou Christou he genesis houtos en:Mnesteutheises tes metros autou Marias to Iosef,prin e sunelthein autous heurethe en gastri echousa ek Pneumatos Hagiou.

Matthew 1:18
18.  Now the birth of Yeshua Christou was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child from [the] Pneumatos Hagiou.

Pneumatos Hagiou  ~  Spirit Holy

Matthew 1:20 TUA
20.  Tauta de autouenthumethentos, idou, angelos Kuriou kat onar efaneauto legon, "Iosef huios Dauid, me fobethesparalabein Mariam ten gunaika sou, to gar en autegennethen ek Pneumatos estin Hagiou!

Matthew 1:20
20.  But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her from Pneumatos it is Hagiou!

ek Pneumatos estin Hagiou!  ~  from Spirit it is Holy!

Matthew 3:11 TUA
11.  "Ego men humas baptizo en hudati eis metanoian,ho de opiso mou erchomenos ischuroteros mou estin, hououk eimi hikanos ta hupodemata bastasai.  Autos humasbaptisei en Pneumati Hagio kai puri,

Matthew 3:11
11.  I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you en Pneumati Hagio, and with fire:

en Pneumati Hagio  ~  in Spirit Holy

Matthew 12:32 TUA
32.  Kai hos ean eipe logon kata touHuiou tou Anthropou, afethesetai auto.  Hos d an eipekata tou Pneumatos tou Hagiou, ouk afethesetai autooute en touto to aioni oute en to mellonti!"

Matthew 12:32
32.  And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against tou Pneumatos tou Hagiou, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

tou Pneumatos tou Hagiou  ~  the Spirit the Holy

Matthew 28:18-20 TUA
18.  Kai proselthon ho Iesous elalesen autois legon,@"Edothe moi pasa exousia en ourano kai epi tes ges.
19.  Poreuthentes oun matheteusate panta ta ethne, baptizontes autous eis to onoma tou Patros kai tou Huiou kai tou Hagiou Pneumatos,
20.  didaskontes autous tereinpanta hosa eneteilamen humin.  Kai idou, ego methhumon eimi pasas tas hemeras heos tes sunteleias touaionos."{*}^

Here the order of the words is intentionally reversed for the first time, in the first book, and in the first Gospel account of all of the New Testament:

Hagiou Pneumatos  ~  Holy Spirit

Matthew 28:18-19
18.  And the Yeshua came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19.  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations-Gentiles, immersing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, even the Hagiou Pneumatos,
20.  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you all the days until the consummation of the aionos. Amen.

"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth: Go therefore, and teach all nations-Gentiles: immersing them in the name of the Father and the Son: even the Holy Spirit."

The Holy Spirit is the Father and the Son
They Two are One!

 

[BornToReign]

Isaiah 63:10 ESV
But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit; therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them.

saiah 63:11 ESV
Then he remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people. Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit,

Psalm 51:11 ESV
Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.

Hi daq.

I am wondering do these passages have the Holy Spirit reversed also?


It would follow that Yeshua had his own Spirit, being the Son of the Father, As well as the Father Spirit dwelling in Him after baptism?

Making Him a separate being, No? The Man Yeshua had to of had his own being.

Amen that they Two are One. But is that One as in One being or Two operating as in one unit?


John 18:37 ESV
Then Pilate said to him, "So you are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world--to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice."

[daq]

Hi BTR
The point which was made in the Gospel of Matthew is separate to that book. It has nothing to do, (as far as I know) with the wording in the verses you have quoted. If you simply mean are they reversed in their translation into English then yes they are:

Isaiah 63:10-11 TUA
10.  whemah maruww`itsbuw 'et- ruwach qadshow wayehapek lahem l'owyeb huw'nilcham- bam.
11.  Wayizkor ymey- `owlam Mosheh `amow -- 'Ayeh hama`alemmiyam 'et ro`ey tso'now? 'Ayeh hasam bqirbow 'et- ruwach qadshow,

Ruwach(#7307) Qadsh-Qodesh(#6944)  =  Spirit Holy

Psalms 51:11 TUA
11.  (51:13 in Heb.)'Al- tashliykeniy milpaneyka w-Ruwach Qadsh 'al- tiqachmimeniy.

However, more importantly "soul" and "spirit" are not the same thing; and the misunderstanding of the two has caused great confusion within the body of Christ. Spirit is like "wind" or "breath" and is of a transient nature. At one moment a person may exhibit the qualities of "the spirit of Elijah" wanting to "call down fire" upon his enemies; and Yeshua would say to him: "Ye know not of what spirit ye are" as he did say to "the Sons of Thunder" James and John when they asked of him the same. However, the nephesh-soul is stationary with each man or woman. In fact, the nephesh-soul is "the man" and the body-temple is the "vehicle" which the nephesh-soul of the man "operates" like a car or machine.

Yeshua poured out his NEPHESH-SOUL unto death:

Isaiah 53:10-12
10.  Yet it pleased YHWH to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul (HSN#5315 nephesh) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of YHWH shall prosper in his hand.
11.  He shall see of the travail of his soul, (HSN#5315 nephesh) and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12.  Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul (HSN#5315 nephesh) unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Genesis 1:1-2
1.  In the beginning 'Elohiym created the heaven and the earth.
2.  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit (HSN#7307 ruwach) of 'Elohiym moved upon the face of the waters.

Original Strong's Ref. #7307
Romanized  ruwach
Pronounced roo'-akh
from HSN7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions):
KJV--air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-])wind(-y).

In the beginning was the Word: There simply cannot be a YHWH with no capability to speak; otherwise he would be no YHWH at all. Therefore, wheresoever is YHWH, (who is omnipresent and eternal Spirit) there also is his Word, Christ Yeshua.

Now therefore this may seem extremely complicated at the start but if you can grasp the concepts below through prayerful study in the Spirit then you will find that the following is steady and true throughout the Scripture. And these things will force you into a deeper discipleship in the Word if you will adhere to the rules provided in the Scripture by what is written.

Adam was NOT said to be given Ruwach-Spirit:

Genesis 2:7 KJV
7.  And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed (HSN#5301 naphach) into his nostrils the breath (HSN#5397 nshamah) of life; (HSN#2416 chay) and man became a living (HSN#2416 chay) soul (HSN#5315 nephesh).

Genesis 2:7 TUA
7.  Wayiytser YHWH 'Elohiym 'et- ha'adam `apar min-ha'damah wayipach b'apayw nishmat chayiym wayhiy ha'adamlnepesh chayah.

Original Strong's Ref. #5301
Romanized  naphach
Pronounced naw-fakh'
a primitive root; to puff, in various applications (literally, to inflate, blow hard, scatter, kindle, expire; figuratively, to disesteem):
KJV--blow, breath, give up, cause to lose [life], seething, snuff.

Original Strong's Ref. #5397
Romanized  nshamah
Pronounced nesh-aw-maw'
from HSN5395; a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal:
KJV--blast, (that) breath(-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

Original Strong's Ref. #2416
Romanized  chay
Pronounced khah'-ee
from HSN2421; alive; hence, raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year), strong; also (as noun, especially in the feminine singular and masculine plural) life (or living thing), whether literally or figuratively:
KJV-- + age, alive, appetite, (wild) beast, company, congregation, life(-time), live(-ly), living (creature, thing), maintenance, + merry, multitude, + (be) old, quick, raw, running, springing, troop.

Original Strong's Ref. #5315
Romanized  nephesh
Pronounced neh'-fesh
from HSN5314; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):
KJV--any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X [dis-]contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure,  (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

You see nowhere is the man Adam stated to be given Ruwach-Spirit. Adam was given the "breath of life" and became a "living soul" but none of those words are RUWACH. Those who receive Ruwach-Spirit receive it when they are born from above, (Jn.3:1-8). Thankfully we have the quote from Paul revealing the corresponding Greek words for what is written in Genesis 2:7~

1 Corinthians 15:45
45.  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living (GSN#2198 zao) soul; (GSN#5590 psuche) the last Adam was made a quickening Spirit (GSN#4151 pneuma).

Original Strong's Ref. #2198
Romanized  zao
Pronounced dzah'-o
a primary verb; to live (literally or figuratively):
KJV--life(-time), (a-)live(-ly), quick.

Original Strong's Ref. #2222
Romanized  zoe
Pronounced dzo-ay'
from GSN2198; life (literally or figuratively):
KJV--life(-time). Compare GSN5590.

Original Strong's Ref. #5590
Romanized  psuche
Pronounced psoo-khay'
from GSN5594; breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from GSN4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from GSN2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew HSN5315, HSN7307 and HSN2416):
KJV--heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

Original Strong's Ref. #4151
Romanized  pneuma
Pronounced pnyoo'-mah
from GSN4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:
KJV--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare GSN5590.

You now have the whole lesson before you concerning these three words in Hebrew and in Greek. They are as follows and correspond throughout the entire body of Scripture. If there is anything that does not add up according to your doctrine then your doctrine is incorrect and must be adjusted accordingly, (and at the start this may be painful when you first discover what it means in many different instances).

HSN#7307 Ruwach-Spirit  =  GSN#4151 Pneuma-Spirit

HSN#5315 Nephesh-Soul  =  GSN#5590 Psuche-Soul

HSN#2416 Chay-Life  =  GSN#2198/2222 Zao-Zoe-Life

Every soul of man is in opposition to YHWH and shall be put to death.
Yeshua was/is both man-Adam-nephesh-soul and fully 'Elohiym-Spirit.
Therefore was he tempted in all points like as we are; yet without sin.
The soul retains the will to live and to conquer: even animals have it.

 

[BornToReign]

Hi daq.

If you simply mean are they reversed in their translation into English then yes they are:

Yes this is all I meant, I was just covering all bases.

I agree with everything you posted in #15 totally makes sense.

this last post, soul and spirit, answers many questions and thank you so much for sharing. I greatly appreciate your time and pray many blessings to you in return. If you keep feeding me I will need your address so I can tithe to you. 

Thank you very much!

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Hi BTR 
Do you know why the difference in the following two passages?

Matthew 10:16-20 KJV
16.  Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17.  But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18.  And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19.  But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20.  For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mark 13:9-11 KJV
9.  But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
10.  And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11.  But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

HINT: TIMING IS EVERYTHING! 

Mark doesn't contain a lot of the details the other gospels do. 

I've been told this has to do with when Mark was written - earlier than the others, at a time when the Jewish Sanhedrin still held power, and was willing and able to persecute you if you "named names" or said something they deemed doctrinally or politically incorrect.

Jarrod

[gospel]

Hi BTR
The point which was made in the Gospel of Matthew is separate to that book. It has nothing to do, (as far as I know) with the wording in the verses you have quoted. If you simply mean are they reversed in their translation into English then yes they are:

Isaiah 63:10-11 TUA
10.  whemah maruww`itsbuw 'et- ruwach qadshow wayehapek lahem l'owyeb huw'nilcham- bam.
11.  Wayizkor ymey- `owlam Mosheh `amow -- 'Ayeh hama`alemmiyam 'et ro`ey tso'now? 'Ayeh hasam bqirbow 'et- ruwach qadshow,

Ruwach(#7307) Qadsh-Qodesh(#6944)  =  Spirit Holy

Psalms 51:11 TUA
11.  (51:13 in Heb.)'Al- tashliykeniy milpaneyka w-Ruwach Qadsh 'al- tiqachmimeniy.

However, more importantly "soul" and "spirit" are not the same thing; and the misunderstanding of the two has caused great confusion within the body of Christ. Spirit is like "wind" or "breath" and is of a transient nature. At one moment a person may exhibit the qualities of "the spirit of Elijah" wanting to "call down fire" upon his enemies; and Yeshua would say to him: "Ye know not of what spirit ye are" as he did say to "the Sons of Thunder" James and John when they asked of him the same. However, the nephesh-soul is stationary with each man or woman. In fact, the nephesh-soul is "the man" and the body-temple is the "vehicle" which the nephesh-soul of the man "operates" like a car or machine.

Yeshua poured out his NEPHESH-SOUL unto death:

Isaiah 53:10-12
10.  Yet it pleased YHWH to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul (HSN#5315 nephesh) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of YHWH shall prosper in his hand.
11.  He shall see of the travail of his soul, (HSN#5315 nephesh) and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12.  Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul (HSN#5315 nephesh) unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Genesis 1:1-2
1.  In the beginning 'Elohiym created the heaven and the earth.
2.  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit (HSN#7307 ruwach) of 'Elohiym moved upon the face of the waters.

Original Strong's Ref. #7307
Romanized  ruwach
Pronounced roo'-akh
from HSN7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions):
KJV--air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-])wind(-y).

In the beginning was the Word: There simply cannot be a YHWH with no capability to speak; otherwise he would be no YHWH at all. Therefore, wheresoever is YHWH, (who is omnipresent and eternal Spirit) there also is his Word, Christ Yeshua.

Now therefore this may seem extremely complicated at the start but if you can grasp the concepts below through prayerful study in the Spirit then you will find that the following is steady and true throughout the Scripture. And these things will force you into a deeper discipleship in the Word if you will adhere to the rules provided in the Scripture by what is written.

Adam was NOT said to be given Ruwach-Spirit:

Genesis 2:7 KJV
7.  And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed (HSN#5301 naphach) into his nostrils the breath (HSN#5397 nshamah) of life; (HSN#2416 chay) and man became a living (HSN#2416 chay) soul (HSN#5315 nephesh).

Genesis 2:7 TUA
7.  Wayiytser YHWH 'Elohiym 'et- ha'adam `apar min-ha'damah wayipach b'apayw nishmat chayiym wayhiy ha'adamlnepesh chayah.

Original Strong's Ref. #5301
Romanized  naphach
Pronounced naw-fakh'
a primitive root; to puff, in various applications (literally, to inflate, blow hard, scatter, kindle, expire; figuratively, to disesteem):
KJV--blow, breath, give up, cause to lose [life], seething, snuff.

Original Strong's Ref. #5397
Romanized  nshamah
Pronounced nesh-aw-maw'
from HSN5395; a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal:
KJV--blast, (that) breath(-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

Original Strong's Ref. #2416
Romanized  chay
Pronounced khah'-ee
from HSN2421; alive; hence, raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year), strong; also (as noun, especially in the feminine singular and masculine plural) life (or living thing), whether literally or figuratively:
KJV-- + age, alive, appetite, (wild) beast, company, congregation, life(-time), live(-ly), living (creature, thing), maintenance, + merry, multitude, + (be) old, quick, raw, running, springing, troop.

Original Strong's Ref. #5315
Romanized  nephesh
Pronounced neh'-fesh
from HSN5314; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):
KJV--any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X [dis-]contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure,  (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

You see nowhere is the man Adam stated to be given Ruwach-Spirit. Adam was given the "breath of life" and became a "living soul" but none of those words are RUWACH. Those who receive Ruwach-Spirit receive it when they are born from above, (Jn.3:1-8). Thankfully we have the quote from Paul revealing the corresponding Greek words for what is written in Genesis 2:7~

1 Corinthians 15:45
45.  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living (GSN#2198 zao) soul; (GSN#5590 psuche) the last Adam was made a quickening Spirit (GSN#4151 pneuma).

Original Strong's Ref. #2198
Romanized  zao
Pronounced dzah'-o
a primary verb; to live (literally or figuratively):
KJV--life(-time), (a-)live(-ly), quick.

Original Strong's Ref. #2222
Romanized  zoe
Pronounced dzo-ay'
from GSN2198; life (literally or figuratively):
KJV--life(-time). Compare GSN5590.

Original Strong's Ref. #5590
Romanized  psuche
Pronounced psoo-khay'
from GSN5594; breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from GSN4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from GSN2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew HSN5315, HSN7307 and HSN2416):
KJV--heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

Original Strong's Ref. #4151
Romanized  pneuma
Pronounced pnyoo'-mah
from GSN4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:
KJV--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare GSN5590.

You now have the whole lesson before you concerning these three words in Hebrew and in Greek. They are as follows and correspond throughout the entire body of Scripture. If there is anything that does not add up according to your doctrine then your doctrine is incorrect and must be adjusted accordingly, (and at the start this may be painful when you first discover what it means in many different instances).

HSN#7307 Ruwach-Spirit  =  GSN#4151 Pneuma-Spirit

HSN#5315 Nephesh-Soul  =  GSN#5590 Psuche-Soul

HSN#2416 Chay-Life  =  GSN#2198/2222 Zao-Zoe-Life

Every soul of man is in opposition to YHWH and shall be put to death.
Yeshua was/is both man-Adam-nephesh-soul and fully 'Elohiym-Spirit.
Therefore was he tempted in all points like as we are; yet without sin.
The soul retains the will to live and to conquer: even animals have it.

 

daq I must say as intellectual explanations go....this one was done quite well, manna to you!

Whereas I find it troubling at times to see how some people need the Greek, Hebrew and grammatical details to understand what God is saying in His Word

In this response you accommodated that need rather well and you are to be commended for doing so!

Everything you stated some of us have learned in a more simplistic fashion using some of the same scriptures as a basis for our understanding

In a nutshell we believe the bible clearly shows us

Man is a spirit, who lives in a body and has a soul 

The battle is for the soul

The WILL of man is seated on the throne of the soul, The Will is king

The two opposing forces that war over the Will is

a man's spirit and a man's body or flesh ( sarx: sensory perception, through the world ( see 1 John 2:16 )

A man's spirit has no chance of wielding any influence over his soul unless his spirit is quickened by the Holy Spirit and strengthened on a continual diet of spirit food, that being the true manna, The Bread of Heaven, The Holy Word of God.

Otherwise a man's soul is held hostage by his flesh, by worldly stimulation received through his flesh (  sarx ) his sensory perception ( 5 senses )

In Jesus case His Spirit, Quickened by The Holy Spirit by Nature of His Deity was Perfectly led by The Holy Spirit in every way....therefore

As The Living Word, His Spirit within Him was fully nourished and well fed at all times

His soul therefore was totally dominated by His Spirit, by His Divine Nature and not at all by His flesh, His sensory perception, His carnal nature through stimulation which comes from the world ( lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life )

None of these could sway Jesus in any direction or influence or entice His Will

So In Jesus case

He was not subject to any bondage of any stronghold of carnality but

Walked and Lived in the Perfect unshackled Freedom and Liberty of the Holy Spirit

And in so doing His Will was in Perfect Submission to the Divine Will

Anyway thanks again for a brilliant post! 

[BornToReign]

Quote gospel:

Man is a spirit, who lives in a body and has a soul 

That is not what he said.

He said what the Word says. 

Genesis 2:7 KJV
7.  And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed (HSN#5301 naphach) into his nostrils the breath (HSN#5397 nshamah) of life; (HSN#2416 chay) and man became a living (HSN#2416 chay) soul (HSN#5315 nephesh).

1 Corinthians 15:45
45.  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living (GSN#2198 zao) soul; (GSN#5590 psuche) the last Adam was made a quickening Spirit (GSN#4151 pneuma).

Man is a soul who dwells in flesh.

[gospel]

Quote gospel:

Man is a spirit, who lives in a body and has a soul 

That is not what he said.

He said what the Word says. 

Genesis 2:7 KJV
7.  And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed (HSN#5301 naphach) into his nostrils the breath (HSN#5397 nshamah) of life; (HSN#2416 chay) and man became a living (HSN#2416 chay) soul (HSN#5315 nephesh).

1 Corinthians 15:45
45.  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living (GSN#2198 zao) soul; (GSN#5590 psuche) the last Adam was made a quickening Spirit (GSN#4151 pneuma).

Man is a soul who dwells in flesh.

So your understanding is man is not a spirit?

If you were merely a soul you'd be nothing more than an animal

Sorry...but God is a Spirit,

and man is made in the image and likeness of God

That doesn't mean man looks like God

It means man is also a spirit

That is the difference between humans and animals

Humans are spirit beings, whom possess a soul

Man is indeed a spirit being

We have a soul

We live in a body

Although your soul is where your will is, your ego so to speak, along with your personality, your emotions, your memory, your imagination and your intellect

Your spirit is the essence of who you are

Your spirit is what is quickened by the Holy Spirit ...NOT your soul

Your soul cannot be quickened only influenced

by either

Your spirit or by your senses

[BornToReign]

Quote gospel:

Man is a spirit, who lives in a body and has a soul  

That is not what he said.

He said what the Word says.  

Genesis 2:7 KJV
7.  And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed (HSN#5301 naphach) into his nostrils the breath (HSN#5397 nshamah) of life; (HSN#2416 chay) and man became a living (HSN#2416 chay) soul (HSN#5315 nephesh).

1 Corinthians 15:45
45.  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living (GSN#2198 zao) soul; (GSN#5590 psuche) the last Adam was made a quickening Spirit (GSN#4151 pneuma).

Man is a soul who dwells in flesh.

So your understanding is man is not a spirit?

If you were merely a soul you'd be nothing more than an animal

Sorry...but God is a Spirit,

and man is made in the image and likeness of God

That doesn't mean man looks like God

It means man is also a spirit

That is the difference between humans and animals

Humans are spirit beings, whom possess a soul

Man is indeed a spirit being

We have a soul

We live in a body

Although your soul is where your will is, your ego so to speak, along with your personality, your emotions, your memory, your imagination and your intellect

Your spirit is the essence of who you are

Your spirit is what is quickened by the Holy Spirit ...NOT your soul

Your soul cannot be quickened only influenced

by either

Your spirit or by your senses

We are a living soul in a physical body. When we are born again we receive Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:45 ESV
Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being";the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Genesis 2:7 KJV
7.  And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed (HSN#5301 naphach) into his nostrils the breath (HSN#5397 nshamah) of life; (HSN#2416 chay) and man became a living (HSN#2416 chay) soul (HSN#5315 nephesh).

1 Corinthians 15:45
45.  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living (GSN#2198 zao) soul; (GSN#5590 psuche) the last Adam was made a quickening Spirit (GSN#4151 pneuma).




Edited: deleted a comment that was in error.

[gospel]

We are a living soul in a physical body. When we are born again we receive Holy Spirit.

Are you now  denying that man is a spirit being?


Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23


Breakdown as you like just as long as you understand

The Holy Spirit does not live in your soul

And nor will He

For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:11

In this verse you can see how a man's spirit is to a man the way God's Spirit is to God?

Your soul is something you possess, something you have

Your spirit is the person within you, your spirit is who you are

Jesus said

"In your patience possess you your souls." Luke 21:19

Your soul is something you can lose or keep

Your spirit cannot be lost, it is literally you!

The spirit of man is the lamp of the LORD, searching all his innermost parts Proverbs 20:27


Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! Hebrews 12:9

God is the Father of spirit not our soul

The soul is your personality, your will your emotions your imagination, memory and intellect

Not submitted to the the spirit man within you its of no use to God

In short

The soulish realm is not the realm of the Spirit. its the source of much which is contrary to the Divine Nature

It must be controlled, under subjugation to the spirit of a man, who is being led of the Spirit of God

In the OT
David commands his soul, he speaks to his soul and gives his soul instructions

The "he" part of David that speaks to David's soul is David's spirit

Read the Psalms you'll see David commands his soul to bless the Lord, he commands his soul to be still, he asks his soul why are you troubled?

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

The new creation is the new man within you, the new regenerated spirit within you

You soul is not made new...to the contrary its where all of our bad habits and wrong mindsets reside

Its is the new man who has to transform the old man of the soul in order to cause us to walk in the newness of life

And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Colossians 3:10

God referred to Jacob as Jacob when he was being soulish but the realm man within Jacob was Israel

Same with Peter, when he was functioning more in the soulish realm Jesus referred to him as Simon

However the spirit man within Simon was Peter

[daq]

Hi BTR
A tithe to me? I know you kid but not so for this reason: For if my offering is an offering unto YHWH and you partake of it then the glory be to Him.

Hi gospel
While I appreciate your kind words I must say that BTR has better understood what was said. And I do love the way he states: "he said what the Word says" because by this I know that for the most part he not only understood what was said but he also perceives my true desire and intent. Spirit is of a "transient nature" which is why we are told to test the spirits. This was why I used the analogy of the Spirit of Elijah previously above, (and in another thread recently, ::winking:: at Jarrod).

Elijah was a man faced-"anthropos" (Greek) who was similar to us men-"aner" (Greek) but not necessarily the same although the two words "anthropos" and "aner" are confused in many places and difficult to differentiate. However, when the Spirit of Elijah was taken up from the man he then shaved his head because his master and "head-covering" had been removed, (Elijah was a very "hairy man") and "hair" in the Scripture is spiritual in the sense of spirit-soul-money, (Ezekiel 5:3, Deuteronomy 14:25). The name of the man was thus changed to Elisha; and when Elisha returned from the Jordan there were none who recognized him even though he had received a "double portion" (because he saw the Spirit of Elijah go up in the whirlwind). If I remember correctly there were some children who did not understand, poking fun at him, who said: "Go up, thou bald head! Go up, thou bald head! And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of YHWH. And there came forth two she-bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

For the same reason John the Baptist went before the Master in the spirit and power of Elijah as foretold by Gabriel in Luke 1:17. Yet later when John was asked if he was indeed Elijah he denied it, and stated that he was not; and why? Because they did not understand that Elijah is Spirit, and that Spirit was upon John even though John himself was the man, (nephesh-soul). This all can be found by those willing to search the Scripture: Start by finding out who it was that was told to anoint Jehu as king over Israel; then find out who finally does actually anoint Jehu as king over Israel; it was neither a man named "Elijah" nor was it Elisha who anointed Jehu as king. And just because we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit of YHWH and His Christ does not mean that we will not be approached and tempted by other spirits. Every servant will surely be tested before the Master puts him in charge of all his goods.

What shall a man give in exchange for his soul-psuche?

Matthew 10:27-28 KJV
27.  What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28.  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: (psuche) but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul (psuche) and body in hell.

Revelation 6:9 KJV
9.  And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls (psuche) of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 20:4 KJV
4.  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls (psuche) of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Luke 12:16-20
16.  And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich anthropos brought forth plentifully:
17.  And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
18.  And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
19.  And I will say to my soul, (psuche) Soul, (psuche) thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20.  But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul (psuche) shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

 

[BornToReign]

Quote daq:

Hi BTR
A tithe to me? I know you kid but not so for this reason: For if my offering is an offering unto YHWH and you partake of it then the glory be to Him.

  Amen!

Well may you receive many overflowing blessings for your offerings my friend, and I know that you do.




Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

[gospel]

Hi gospel
While I appreciate your kind words I must say that BTR has better understood what was said. And I do love the way he states: "he said what the Word says" because by this I know that for the most part he not only understood what was said but he also perceives my true desire and intent. Spirit is of a "transient nature" which is why we are told to test the spirits. This was why I used the analogy of the Spirit of Elijah previously above,

It is quite alright ...

I know what the Word says and that is all the endorsement I need.

In that regard my response included 7 "count em" scriptures

None of them can be explained away through persuasive words of man's wisdom

So

If you believe you are a soul man then so be it

God however is not a soul, me I am likened unto the image of God,
The Father of spirits.

God is my Father and your too if you would agree with The Word
But He is the Father of spirits and in regards to souls...the judge, not the Father


For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:11

And by the way there is nothing at all transient about the spirit of a man within him.

So if that's where your intellectual understanding of the word has led you to believe, despite the volumes of information you seem to dispense ...
you nevertheless are sadly mistaken and confused

[daq]

Hi gospel
While I appreciate your kind words I must say that BTR has better understood what was said. And I do love the way he states: "he said what the Word says" because by this I know that for the most part he not only understood what was said but he also perceives my true desire and intent. Spirit is of a "transient nature" which is why we are told to test the spirits. This was why I used the analogy of the Spirit of Elijah previously above,

It is quite alright ...

I know what the Word says and that is all the endorsement I need.

In that regard my response included 7 "count em" scriptures

None of them can be explained away through persuasive words of man's wisdom

So

If you believe you are a soul man then so be it

God however is not a soul, me I am likened unto the image of God,
The Father of spirits.

God is my Father and your too if you would agree with The Word
But He is the Father of spirits and in regards to souls...the judge, not the Father


For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:11

And by the way there is nothing at all transient about the spirit of a man within him.

So if that's where your intellectual understanding of the word has led you to believe, despite the volumes of information you seem to dispense ...
you nevertheless are sadly mistaken and confused

You will need to start with the words of the Master before you can understand anything Paul or anyone else has written. The only direct words of Christ you have quoted so far were from Luke 21 which supports what I have already stated from the Scripture. The rest of the verses you have quoted are most likely taken out of context by yourself.

Luke 21:19 KJV
19.  In your patience possess ye your souls (psuche).

Matthew 16:25-26 KJV
25.  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26.  For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul (psuche)? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul (psuche)?

Matthew 22:37-38
37.  The Yeshua said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, (psuche) and with all thy mind.
38.  This is the first and great commandment.

There are tons more Scripture quotes just like these from the Gospel accounts. Therefore it is you who do not understand what you read in the Epistles of the New Testament because you do not comprehend the Word and Doctrine of Christ FIRSTLY. Do you understand what "firstly" means?

FIRST OF ALL ~ FOREMOST ~ BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE 

[daq]

God however is not a soul, me I am likened unto the image of God,
The Father of spirits.

This statement alone shows that you speak from another spirit which tells you things that are in opposition to the Truth of Scripture:

Matthew 12:15-18
15.  But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
16.  And charged them that they should not make him known:
17.  That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
18.  Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul (psuche) is well pleased: I will put my Spirit (pneuma) upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Also BTR
Please notice in the Matthew 12:18 quote of Isaiah 42:1 how the words match up perfectly between the Hebrew and the Greek as stated previously above:

Isaiah 42:1 KJV
1.  Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul (HSN#5315 nephesh) delighteth; I have put my Spirit (HSN#7307 ruwach) upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

HSN#7307 Ruwach-Spirit = GSN#4151 Pneuma-Spirit

HSN#5315 Nephesh-Soul = GSN#5590 Psuche-Soul

HSN#2416 Chay-Life = GSN#2198/2222 Zao-Zoe-Life

[gospel]

FIRSTLY the fact that I didn't understand your post when I thought I did is a testament to what I FIRST said when I FIRST addressed you in this forum  

Which is that many if not most of your posts are W-W-W-W-AY TOO complex, yet the Gospel is not

Secondly I want you to descend from the ivory tower of academia with me if but for a few minutes, don yourself in the garb of a Galilean, read this verse which you yourself posted and allow me to ask you one simple question about verse 26

Matthew 16:25-26 KJV
25.  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26.  For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul (psuche)? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul (psuche)?

Okay verse 26 have you read it very carefully and slowly?
Good! You're a fairly pleasant guy so I will assume you have....

Here's what I need to know...

Lets look at the following words; man, he and his

1. Are these not nouns and pronouns and as such the subject of the verse...In other words this verse is talking about a man...correct?

Oh and by the way a noun is a person place or thing right?
We'll need to refer to that little item later

2. This verse is saying this man can do something right? Doing points to an action ...correct?
The things this man can according to this verse is profit, gain, lose or give and these are all verbs right?...

Ok so ...how am I doing so far and are the Galilean duds nice and comfy?

Hang in there with me I'm almost ready to ask my question

3. The word "his" isn't that whats known as a possessive pronoun which designates "ownership"?

Now that we've gotten that much settled ....

...in the verse in question does it not imply by the use of the word "HIS" that the man, HE has ownership of a thing, possession of a thing, some thing under his authority that belongs to him and in this verse that thing is his soul?

Isn't that correct?

Now here's the question

Why would I distinguish or make a difference between who am I am and what I have unless there was in fact a distinct difference?

In other words why would the verse distinguish a difference between a person, in this case The Man (noun), He ( pronoun) and that which the man has possession of.... in this case HIS ( possessive pronoun ) soul ( noun )

Remember now the little item from earlier...a noun is a person, place or a thing

In this verse the person is The Man ( noun), He ( pronoun)

The thing in this verse is the soul (noun )

He can profit, he can gain by keeping it or he can give it and lose...or as the question is put to us

what can be gained or profited by giving it or losing it

The answered is inferred ....nothing!

Here's my Question: How can you reasonably or logically juxtapose the two as if they are interchangeable calling the thing, that which belongs to the person meaning it is His as if it were actually the person

Answer: You can't!

The person is the being of a human, the man within, the spirit of a man whom in fact is the actual man

That man has a soul and lives in a body

For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 2 Corinthians 4:16

The inner man is your spirit man, your inner being, he is being renewed he is growing stronger wielding more and more influence over your soul hopefully and eventually more influence than your outer man.

He is the "my" when David says "my" soul!

The my is the possessor the person, the soul is the thing

The soul is not your inner man,

By one's spirit, being led of God's Spirit... Christianity seeks to allow God to reign in the soul; and having His seat there, on the throne of our soul, as Lord and ruler ....the external conduct and habits of the sensual realm will be regulated accordingly.

Ok you can shed the garb of a common man now and once again ascend your tower to utter lofty platitudes of grandeur, of which mere mortals such as me have to aspire to doctorate levels just to understand and somewhat comprehend

[daq]

Hi gospel
While I appreciate your kind words I must say that BTR has better understood what was said. And I do love the way he states: "he said what the Word says" because by this I know that for the most part he not only understood what was said but he also perceives my true desire and intent. Spirit is of a "transient nature" which is why we are told to test the spirits. This was why I used the analogy of the Spirit of Elijah previously above,

It is quite alright ...

I know what the Word says and that is all the endorsement I need.

In that regard my response included 7 "count em" scriptures

None of them can be explained away through persuasive words of man's wisdom

So

If you believe you are a soul man then so be it

God however is not a soul, me I am likened unto the image of God,
The Father of spirits.

God is my Father and your too if you would agree with The Word
But He is the Father of spirits and in regards to souls...the judge, not the Father


For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:11

And by the way there is nothing at all transient about the spirit of a man within him.

So if that's where your intellectual understanding of the word has led you to believe, despite the volumes of information you seem to dispense ...
you nevertheless are sadly mistaken and confused

You will need to start with the words of the Master before you can understand anything Paul or anyone else has written. The only direct words of Christ you have quoted so far were from Luke 21 which supports what I have already stated from the Scripture. The rest of the verses you have quoted are most likely taken out of context by yourself.

Luke 21:19 KJV
19.  In your patience possess ye your souls (psuche).

Matthew 16:25-26 KJV
25.  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26.  For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul (psuche)? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul (psuche)?

Matthew 22:37-38
37.  The Yeshua said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, (psuche) and with all thy mind.
38.  This is the first and great commandment.

There are tons more Scripture quotes just like these from the Gospel accounts. Therefore it is you who do not understand what you read in the Epistles of the New Testament because you do not comprehend the Word and Doctrine of Christ FIRSTLY. Do you understand what "firstly" means?

FIRST OF ALL ~ FOREMOST ~ BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE  

God however is not a soul, me I am likened unto the image of God,
The Father of spirits.

This statement alone shows that you speak from another spirit which tells you things that are in opposition to the Truth of Scripture:

Matthew 12:15-18
15.  But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
16.  And charged them that they should not make him known:
17.  That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
18.  Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul (psuche) is well pleased: I will put my Spirit (pneuma) upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Also BTR
Please notice in the Matthew 12:18 quote of Isaiah 42:1 how the words match up perfectly between the Hebrew and the Greek as stated previously above:

Isaiah 42:1 KJV
1.  Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul (HSN#5315 nephesh) delighteth; I have put my Spirit (HSN#7307 ruwach) upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

HSN#7307 Ruwach-Spirit = GSN#4151 Pneuma-Spirit

HSN#5315 Nephesh-Soul = GSN#5590 Psuche-Soul

HSN#2416 Chay-Life = GSN#2198/2222 Zao-Zoe-Life

FIRSTLY the fact that I didn't understand your post when I thought I did is a testament to what I FIRST said when I FIRST addressed you in this forum  

Which is that many if not most of your posts are W-W-W-W-AY TOO complex, yet the Gospel is not

Secondly I want you to descend from the ivory tower of academia with me if but for a few minutes, don yourself in the garb of a Galilean, read this verse which you yourself posted and allow me to ask you one simple question about verse 26

Matthew 16:25-26 KJV
25.  For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26.  For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul (psuche)? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul (psuche)?

Okay verse 26 have you read it very carefully and slowly?
Good! You're a fairly pleasant guy so I will assume you have....

Here's what I need to know...

Lets look at the following words; man, he and his

1. Are these not nouns and pronouns and as such the subject of the verse...In other words this verse is talking about a man...correct?

Oh and by the way a noun is a person place or thing right?
We'll need to refer to that little item later

2. This verse is saying this man can do something right? Doing points to an action ...correct?
The things this man can according to this verse is profit, gain, lose or give and these are all verbs right?...

Ok so ...how am I doing so far and are the Galilean duds nice and comfy?

Hang in there with me I'm almost ready to ask my question

3. The word "his" isn't that whats known as a possessive pronoun which designates "ownership"?

Now that we've gotten that much settled ....

...in the verse in question does it not imply by the use of the word "HIS" that the man, HE has ownership of a thing, possession of a thing, some thing under his authority that belongs to him and in this verse that thing is his soul?

Isn't that correct?

Now here's the question

Why would I distinguish or make a difference between who am I am and what I have unless there was in fact a distinct difference?

In other words why would the verse distinguish a difference between a person, in this case The Man (noun), He ( pronoun) and that which the man has possession of.... in this case HIS ( possessive pronoun ) soul ( noun )

Remember now the little item from earlier...a noun is a person, place or a thing

In this verse the person is The Man ( noun), He ( pronoun)

The thing in this verse is the soul (noun )

He can profit, he can gain by keeping it or he can give it and lose...or as the question is put to us

what can be gained or profited by giving it or losing it

The answered is inferred ....nothing!

Here's my Question: How can you reasonably or logically juxtapose the two as if they are interchangeable calling the thing, that which belongs to the person meaning it is His as if it were actually the person

Answer: You can't!

The person is the being of a human, the man within, the spirit of a man whom in fact is the actual man

That man has a soul and lives in a body

For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 2 Corinthians 4:16

The inner man is your spirit man, your inner being, he is being renewed he is growing stronger wielding more and more influence over your soul hopefully and eventually more influence than your outer man.

He is the "my" when David says "my" soul!

The my is the possessor the person, the soul is the thing

The soul is not your inner man,

By one's spirit, being led of God's Spirit... Christianity seeks to allow God to reign in the soul; and having His seat there, on the throne of our soul, as Lord and ruler ....the external conduct and habits of the sensual realm will be regulated accordingly.

Ok you can shed the garb of a common man now and once again ascend your tower to utter lofty platitudes of grandeur, of which mere mortals such as me have to aspire to doctorate levels just to understand and somewhat comprehend

Dear "gospel"
I see that the last post must have cut deep: apparently the lights flickered, then there was probably a buzzing, zapping, and prolonged "pssszzzzttt" sound just before the smoke began pouring from between your ears because your post above is completely incoherent, lol  

However, it was not my intent to cause this to happen to you but then again I am not the one who stated that "G-d however is not a soul" as you did on the previous page. In fact my reply to you was reserved and limited in scope compared to the amount of Scripture which could be posted proving you incorrect. If you have not noticed recently I am not spending much time out in the main forum boards and therefore should not be any threat whatsoever to your perceived "empire" of followers. So why then are you here? Especially if once again you suddenly "do not understand" what is being said? This is not some fancy restaurant dining by the sea as you may be accustomed to, no but rather, this is much more like the "Non-Traditional Theology back-alley Bar-n-Grille"...    And you just got your head handed back to you on a skippers platter by the clear and simple Scripture Truth!

 

[gospel]

I see that the last post must have cut deep: apparently the lights flickered, then there was probably a buzzing, zapping, and prolonged "pssszzzzttt" sound just before the smoke began pouring from between your ears because your post above is completely incoherent, lol

First of all this is not Star Wars, War of the Worlds or The Thunderdome and neither do I see it as an arena where our goal is to annihilate one another.

As indicated by your response ...unfortunately you do

However the fact that you do not understand my points are directly related to your admittedly antagonistic perspective which indicates that of another spirit then one that would be required to understand the heart and intent of the scriptures.... as opposed to the letter of them.

The former understanding is one you lack and the latter of which you are quite accomplished

In fact my reply to you was reserved and limited in scope compared to the amount of Scripture which could be posted proving you incorrect.

Rather than posting numerous amount of scriptures preferably one could and would simply discuss the scriptures already presented, citing where my understanding of those are incorrect.

For instance one would show me where the following verse does not show us a man has a spirit within himself in the same way God has a Spirit both of which serve the same function knowing the thoughts of the man as the Spirit of God knows the thoughts of God.

For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
1 Corinthians 2:11

Simply put, please just explain away my basis for understanding this verse in the manner I do otherwise the verse stands as true according to my understanding of it

NEXT!

If you have not noticed recently I am not spending much time out in the main forum boards and therefore should not be any threat whatsoever to your perceived "empire" of followers. So why then are you here?

How absurd and ridiculous of you! You're seeking dominion sir and I seek accord and understanding.

I see this forum as a place to share the Gospel of Christ and our understanding and accord of the Gospel

In the course of this obviously there is discord and disagreement but through it in ways seen and unseen, bit by bit, painstakingly as it may seem, we are coming to a unity in the faith according to His Sovereign Will

until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.   Ephesians 4:13

Especially if once again you suddenly "do not understand" what is being said? This is not some fancy restaurant dining by the sea as you may be accustomed to, no but rather, this is much more like the "Non-Traditional Theology back-alley Bar-n-Grille"...    And you just got your head handed back to you on a skippers platter by the clear and simple Scripture Truth!

A back alley brawl ...WOW!

Of all the things one can get one's testosterone all worked up over...you choose a Christian forum a place where one comes to share and discuss The Love of God in Christ Jesus according to the Holy Scriptures!

Talk about misplaced intentions gone awry!

[daq]

I see that the last post must have cut deep: apparently the lights flickered, then there was probably a buzzing, zapping, and prolonged "pssszzzzttt" sound just before the smoke began pouring from between your ears because your post above is completely incoherent, lol

First of all this is not Star Wars, War of the Worlds or The Thunderdome and neither do I see it as an arena where our goal is to annihilate one another.

As indicated by your response ...unfortunately you do

However the fact that you do not understand my points are directly related to your admittedly antagonistic perspective which indicates that of another spirit then one that would be required to understand the heart and intent of the scriptures.... as opposed to the letter of them.

The former understanding is one you lack and the latter of which you are quite accomplished

In fact my reply to you was reserved and limited in scope compared to the amount of Scripture which could be posted proving you incorrect.

Rather than posting numerous amount of scriptures preferably one could and would simply discuss the scriptures already presented, citing where my understanding of those are incorrect.

For instance one would show me where the following verse does not show us a man has a spirit within himself in the same way God has a Spirit both of which serve the same function knowing the thoughts of the man as the Spirit of God knows the thoughts of God.

For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
1 Corinthians 2:11

Simply put, please just explain away my basis for understanding this verse in the manner I do otherwise the verse stands as true according to my understanding of it

NEXT!

If you have not noticed recently I am not spending much time out in the main forum boards and therefore should not be any threat whatsoever to your perceived "empire" of followers. So why then are you here?

How absurd and ridiculous of you! You're seeking dominion sir and I seek accord and understanding.

I see this forum as a place to share the Gospel of Christ and our understanding and accord of the Gospel

In the course of this obviously there is discord and disagreement but through it in ways seen and unseen, bit by bit, painstakingly as it may seem, we are coming to a unity in the faith according to His Sovereign Will

until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.    Ephesians 4:13

Especially if once again you suddenly "do not understand" what is being said? This is not some fancy restaurant dining by the sea as you may be accustomed to, no but rather, this is much more like the "Non-Traditional Theology back-alley Bar-n-Grille"...    And you just got your head handed back to you on a skippers platter by the clear and simple Scripture Truth!

A back alley brawl ...WOW!

Of all the things one can get one's testosterone all worked up over...you choose a Christian forum a place where one comes to share and discuss The Love of God in Christ Jesus according to the Holy Scriptures!

Talk about misplaced intentions gone awry!

Your hatred for the Truth and the saints is really beginning to show. You have not answered to any of the truths presented in the first page of this thread and now once again you have succeeded in derailing another thread. I will pray once more for you!  

[BornToReign]

Jesus answered, "Even if I do bear witness about myself, my testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going, but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me. In your Law it is written that the testimony of two people is true. I am the one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me."

And these Two are One Holy Spirit.

Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.  And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:

concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;

concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer;

concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.


"I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
{He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.}

I came from the Father and have come into the world, and now I am leaving the world and going to the Father."

Yet I am not alone, for the Father is with me. - John16


Galatians 4:6 ESV
And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

John 14:28 ESV
You heard me say to you, 'I am going away, and I will come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

John 14:18 ESV
"I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Romans 8:9 ESV
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.


2 Corinthians 3:17 ESV
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.