Tithing - A Criticism Answered

[larry2]

.

[Talking Donkey]

The Bible says that if I decide to be vegetarian, it is acceptable to God, but if I teach it, it is wrong (1Tim 4:1-3).  The same thing for living a cellibate life, it is ok if I decide to do it myself, but it is wrong to teach it as a doctrine of God.  The same conclusion can be reached concerning tithing.

The Law of Tithing (as given to Moses)

1.  Only land owners (farmers) that were growing crops or raising cattle in Israel had to tithe.  People that did not own land could not tithe.  The only thing acceptable as a tithing offering were agricultural products like corn, wine, strong drinks, oil, tithe of the herd or of the flock like lambs, sheep, goats, etc.. (see Deu 14:23,26; 2Chr 31:6; Neh 10:37;  Neh 13:5,12).  The poor people that did not own any land could not tithe.  When Peter caught 153 fishes (John 21:11), he owed nothing as tithe offering because it is the tithe of the land, not the sea.  The Lord referred to this arrangement as:

a.   The tithe of the land (Lev 27:30)
b.   The tithe of the ground (Neh 10:37)
c.   The tithe of the field (Deu 14:22; 2Chr 31:4-6; Neh 12:44)

2.  Carpenters were not required to tithe 10% of their income.  According to the law of Moses, money was not accepted by God as a tithe offering.

3.  The Israelites had to give 10 % of their land products to the Levites because they did not have land as an inheritance.  They had the Lord as their inheritance. 

4.  Tithing was also given to the poor and needy (widows, orphans, newcomers to the land).  Tithing was part of God's welfare program. (Deu 12:29; Deu 14:28-29; Deu 26:12-13).  The poor did not give tithe, the poor received the tithe (Deu 14:28-29; Deu 26:12-13).  To ask the poor to tithe is exactly the opposite of what God established in His Word.

5.  The tithing for the poor had to be placed at the entrance of the cities in Israel where the Levites and the poor will come to collect it (Deu 14:28-29).  The Levites will then bring the tithes to the Temple in Jerusalem.

6.  The tithing offering for the Levite was only acceptable by God when it was presented to the Levites in the Temple of God in Jerusalem (Deu 12:5-6,11,18; Deu 14:23).   God repeated that every time he mentioned the law of tithing.

7.  God gave warnings to the people of not changing the law of tithing based on human reasoning, not to change it into something that made sense or was right in the eyes of the people, not to add or subtract from it, but to teach it exactly the way the commanded it (Dec 12:8,32).

8.  If the Jews lived too far from Jerusalem, they were allowed to turn their agricultural products (their tithe) into money (to eliminate traveling with produce and animals).  But once they arrived at Jerusalem, they had to turn the money into agricultural products before bringing the offering to God because God did not accept money as a tithing offering.  The reason was so that the tithing offering could be eaten before the Lord in his Temple. (Deu 14:24-26).

9.  Because they had to bring their tithes to the Temple in Jerusalem, God did not make it a burden to those living far away from Jerusalem, to travel every week or every month to bring the tithe.  Instead, he told the Israelites that they had to bring their tithes once every 3 years. That year was called the year of tithing (see Deu 14:28; Deu 26:12; Amos 4:4).

10.  If the people failed to bring in their tithes in the year of tithing, they were commanded by the law to bring them back the next year of tithing (3 years later) with 20 percent interest.  To be financially accurate, twenty percent interest every 3 years translates to 6.3 % interest per year or 0.12 % interest per week.  It is not 20% interest added the next Sunday after someone missed the offering. See Lev 27:31.

11.  The tithe or the 10th part of the agricultural products in Israel belonged to the Lord.  It really belonged to him because man put the seed on the ground, but it was the Lord that made it grow.  The Lord did most of the work.  That is why he considered it robbery not to give Him his part.  He had earned it.  The Lord in turn, gave what belonged to him to the Levite and the poor. (Lev 27:30; Num 18:24; Deu 26:12; Neh 13:5; Mal 3:8-10).   

12.  The tithe was defined as the tenth part (the last 10th, not the first 10th).  If a man had 39 sheep born in his farm, he owed 3 sheep as his tithes, not 4 (see Lev 27:32). 

13.  The Law of God required the Levites to give a tenth of the tithes that they received back unto the Lord. (Num 18:26).  This had to be the best of the tithe and the Levite had to give it to the priests that ministered in the Temple (for their consumption).

14.  People did not GIVE tithes to God, they PAID tithes to God because it belonged to God.  To not do it, was robbing God. Because the tithe did not belong to the people, they could not give it, they had to pay it.  We cannot give what does not belong to us.  In the NT we are called to GIVE 2Cor 9:7) because it really belongs to us (Acts 5:4).

Because the Temple is no longer in place in Jerusalem and there are no Levites running a priesthood anymore, all the laws connected with the Levitical priesthood and the Temple are no longer in effect.  That is why the Jews do not kill a lamb during Passover, no one offers animals for sin offerings, there are no more animal sacrifices.  Those laws are gone with the Temple and the priesthood.  The law of tithing is part of that group.  Rom 4:15; Rom 5:13 and 1 Jo 3:4 say that where there is no law, there is no transgression, and sin cannot be inputted where there is no law.  Because of that, since the Temple was destroyed and the Levitical priesthood disappeared, no one is robbing God of anything when people fail to bring their tithes (their agricultural products to the Levites in the Temple). 

Furthermore, Colossians 2:14 and Eph 2:15 reiterate that Jesus removed those laws when he was nailed to the cross.

Col 2:14  Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Eph 2:15  Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments; for to make in himself of two one new man, so making peace. 

      The current law of tithing preached in today's protestant churches (requiring that 10% of our gross salaries belong to God and that we are robbing him if we do not do that) is not in the Bible.  That is a commandment of man.  God said that our heart is far from God and our worship is in vain when we teach as doctrines commandments of men. 

Shalom

[NTPREACHER4U]

The Bible says that if I decide to be vegetarian, it is acceptable to God, but if I teach it, it is wrong (1Tim 4:1-3).  The same thing for living a cellibate life, it is ok if I decide to do it myself, but it is wrong to teach it as a doctrine of God.  The same conclusion can be reached concerning tithing.

The Law of Tithing (as given to Moses)

1.  Only land owners (farmers) that were growing crops or raising cattle in Israel had to tithe.  People that did not own land could not tithe.  The only thing acceptable as a tithing offering were agricultural products like corn, wine, strong drinks, oil, tithe of the herd or of the flock like lambs, sheep, goats, etc.. (see Deu 14:23,26; 2Chr 31:6; Neh 10:37;  Neh 13:5,12).  The poor people that did not own any land could not tithe.  When Peter caught 153 fishes (John 21:11), he owed nothing as tithe offering because it is the tithe of the land, not the sea.  The Lord referred to this arrangement as:

a.   The tithe of the land (Lev 27:30)
b.   The tithe of the ground (Neh 10:37)
c.   The tithe of the field (Deu 14:22; 2Chr 31:4-6; Neh 12:44)

2.  Carpenters were not required to tithe 10% of their income.  According to the law of Moses, money was not accepted by God as a tithe offering.

3.  The Israelites had to give 10 % of their land products to the Levites because they did not have land as an inheritance.  They had the Lord as their inheritance. 

4.  Tithing was also given to the poor and needy (widows, orphans, newcomers to the land).  Tithing was part of God's welfare program. (Deu 12:29; Deu 14:28-29; Deu 26:12-13).  The poor did not give tithe, the poor received the tithe (Deu 14:28-29; Deu 26:12-13).  To ask the poor to tithe is exactly the opposite of what God established in His Word.

5.  The tithing for the poor had to be placed at the entrance of the cities in Israel where the Levites and the poor will come to collect it (Deu 14:28-29).  The Levites will then bring the tithes to the Temple in Jerusalem.

6.  The tithing offering for the Levite was only acceptable by God when it was presented to the Levites in the Temple of God in Jerusalem (Deu 12:5-6,11,18; Deu 14:23).   God repeated that every time he mentioned the law of tithing.

7.  God gave warnings to the people of not changing the law of tithing based on human reasoning, not to change it into something that made sense or was right in the eyes of the people, not to add or subtract from it, but to teach it exactly the way the commanded it (Dec 12:8,32).

8.  If the Jews lived too far from Jerusalem, they were allowed to turn their agricultural products (their tithe) into money (to eliminate traveling with produce and animals).  But once they arrived at Jerusalem, they had to turn the money into agricultural products before bringing the offering to God because God did not accept money as a tithing offering.  The reason was so that the tithing offering could be eaten before the Lord in his Temple. (Deu 14:24-26).

9.  Because they had to bring their tithes to the Temple in Jerusalem, God did not make it a burden to those living far away from Jerusalem, to travel every week or every month to bring the tithe.  Instead, he told the Israelites that they had to bring their tithes once every 3 years. That year was called the year of tithing (see Deu 14:28; Deu 26:12; Amos 4:4).

10.  If the people failed to bring in their tithes in the year of tithing, they were commanded by the law to bring them back the next year of tithing (3 years later) with 20 percent interest.  To be financially accurate, twenty percent interest every 3 years translates to 6.3 % interest per year or 0.12 % interest per week.  It is not 20% interest added the next Sunday after someone missed the offering. See Lev 27:31.

11.  The tithe or the 10th part of the agricultural products in Israel belonged to the Lord.  It really belonged to him because man put the seed on the ground, but it was the Lord that made it grow.  The Lord did most of the work.  That is why he considered it robbery not to give Him his part.  He had earned it.  The Lord in turn, gave what belonged to him to the Levite and the poor. (Lev 27:30; Num 18:24; Deu 26:12; Neh 13:5; Mal 3:8-10).   

12.  The tithe was defined as the tenth part (the last 10th, not the first 10th).  If a man had 39 sheep born in his farm, he owed 3 sheep as his tithes, not 4 (see Lev 27:32). 

13.  The Law of God required the Levites to give a tenth of the tithes that they received back unto the Lord. (Num 18:26).  This had to be the best of the tithe and the Levite had to give it to the priests that ministered in the Temple (for their consumption).

14.  People did not GIVE tithes to God, they PAID tithes to God because it belonged to God.  To not do it, was robbing God. Because the tithe did not belong to the people, they could not give it, they had to pay it.  We cannot give what does not belong to us.  In the NT we are called to GIVE 2Cor 9:7) because it really belongs to us (Acts 5:4).

Because the Temple is no longer in place in Jerusalem and there are no Levites running a priesthood anymore, all the laws connected with the Levitical priesthood and the Temple are no longer in effect.  That is why the Jews do not kill a lamb during Passover, no one offers animals for sin offerings, there are no more animal sacrifices.  Those laws are gone with the Temple and the priesthood.  The law of tithing is part of that group.  Rom 4:15; Rom 5:13 and 1 Jo 3:4 say that where there is no law, there is no transgression, and sin cannot be inputted where there is no law.  Because of that, since the Temple was destroyed and the Levitical priesthood disappeared, no one is robbing God of anything when people fail to bring their tithes (their agricultural products to the Levites in the Temple). 

Furthermore, Colossians 2:14 and Eph 2:15 reiterate that Jesus removed those laws when he was nailed to the cross.

Col 2:14  Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Eph 2:15  Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments; for to make in himself of two one new man, so making peace. 

      The current law of tithing preached in today's protestant churches (requiring that 10% of our gross salaries belong to God and that we are robbing him if we do not do that) is not in the Bible.  That is a commandment of man.  God said that our heart is far from God and our worship is in vain when we teach as doctrines commandments of men. 

Shalom

Well said and explained.  At the time the scriptures were being written the temple was still standing and Paul and others stated that how we are no longer undert the law of Moses, from the dietary laws, observing days and tithing. Jesus was not born of the tribe of Aaron but of Judah, which Moses gave nothng about the alter and Jesus is our High Priest which means also a changing of the law, which is the New Covenant of our sins being forgiven being made alive together with Christ, recieving the filling of the Holy Spirit along with the gifts of the Spirit and promise of eternal life and waiting for Jesus to appear who has delierved us from the wrath to come.

Grace to all.

[Lively Stone]

The first ten per cent of all we make in our house is God's. He honours His promises to us according to His word when we do that.

This is a spiritually discerned principle, and to tell people that they shouldn't tithe is wrong. Let the Lord influence every believer, rather than being a naysayer. He desires to be the Lord of ALL in our lives. Standing in the way of that in people's lives will bring penalty for false counsel.

[Talking Donkey]

The first ten per cent of all we make in our house is God's. .

(Comment deleted - please don't say things like that.) Rom 4:4 and Acts 5:4 states our money is ours.  That is why we can GIVE it away.  Otherwise, we cant give what does not belong to us.
The tithe was defined as the tenth part (the last 10th, not the first 10th).  If a man had 39 sheep born in his farm, he owed 3 sheep as his tithes, not 4 (see Lev 27:32).

He honours His promises to us according to His word when we do that.

God is faithful indeed.  There are promises made concerning our giving in 2Cor 9:6 but that has nothing to do with the man-made doctrine of modern tithing (10% salary).  The tithing law passed away with the Temple. That verse deals with giving as we purposed in our hearts.

This is a spiritually discerned principle,

Do you mean it cannot be found in the NT?  yeah, I agree.

...and to tell people that they shouldn't tithe is wrong. Let the Lord influence every believer, rather than being a naysayer. He desires to be the Lord of ALL in our lives. Standing in the way of that in people's lives will bring penalty for false counsel.

No one here said we should not give 10%.  No one here said that.  People need to know the difference between what is in the Bible and what is man-made doctrine.  God wants us in the NT to give AS WE PURPOSED IN OUR HEARTS.  Go preach that.

If people will give God the benefit of the doubt and trust him... instead of a man-made law, they will see God is far more powerful to influence his people to be giving generously than trying to inspire them with guilt and remorse.  Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Shalom

[Talking Donkey]

I do not know who deleted my "socially-retarded" comment... But I am extremely thankful for that.

Man, I am grateful-grateful indeed.

I stand corrected... And blessed by your action.

Well noted.

I was wrong.  I stand corrected.  My sincere apologies.  I will go back to my barn to meditate on my donkeyness.

Peace

[Lively Stone]

I do not know who deleted my "socially-retarded" comment... But I am extremely thankful for that.

Man, I am grateful-grateful indeed.

I stand corrected... And blessed by your action.

Well noted.

I was wrong.  I stand corrected.  My sincere apologies.  I will go back to my barn to meditate on my donkeyness.

Peace

I really appreciate you making sure I know what was deleted from your post. It does my heart good.

[Lively Stone]

The first ten per cent of all we make in our house is God's. .

(Comment deleted - please don't say things like that.) Rom 4:4 and Acts 5:4 states our money is ours.  That is why we can GIVE it away.  Otherwise, we cant give what does not belong to us.
The tithe was defined as the tenth part (the last 10th, not the first 10th).  If a man had 39 sheep born in his farm, he owed 3 sheep as his tithes, not 4 (see Lev 27:32).

90% is ours. We give out of that.

God is faithful indeed.  There are promises made concerning our giving in 2Cor 9:6 but that has nothing to do with the man-made doctrine of modern tithing (10% salary).  The tithing law passed away with the Temple. That verse deals with giving as we purposed in our hearts.

There is nothing man-made about tithing. It was never man's idea, because we are basically greedy and self-serving. The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

We are to give as God leads, but tithing isn't giving. We give a gift and we can be as liberal as we choose, but we pay a tithe.

Do you mean it cannot be found in the NT?  yeah, I agree.

Jesus approved of it and said it was good. As He approved of it, we know it is not rescinded, and neither are the distinct promises of God concerning it. If there is a promise of God connected to anything, we can surely hold Him to it.

No one here said we should not give 10%.  No one here said that.  People need to know the difference between what is in the Bible and what is man-made doctrine.  God wants us in the NT to give AS WE PURPOSED IN OUR HEARTS.  Go preach that.

Giving is separate from the tithe. We are to do that, too.

If people will give God the benefit of the doubt and trust him... instead of a man-made law, they will see God is far more powerful to influence his people to be giving generously than trying to inspire them with guilt and remorse.  Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

It is the mark of absolute trust, as God says, to tithe.

[Talking Donkey]

The first ten per cent of all we make in our house is God's. .

(Comment deleted - please don't say things like that.) Rom 4:4 and Acts 5:4 states our money is ours.  That is why we can GIVE it away.  Otherwise, we cant give what does not belong to us.
The tithe was defined as the tenth part (the last 10th, not the first 10th).  If a man had 39 sheep born in his farm, he owed 3 sheep as his tithes, not 4 (see Lev 27:32).

90% is ours. We give out of that.

God is faithful indeed.  There are promises made concerning our giving in 2Cor 9:6 but that has nothing to do with the man-made doctrine of modern tithing (10% salary).  The tithing law passed away with the Temple. That verse deals with giving as we purposed in our hearts.

There is nothing man-made about tithing. It was never man's idea, because we are basically greedy and self-serving. The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

We are to give as God leads, but tithing isn't giving. We give a gift and we can be as liberal as we choose, but we pay a tithe.

Do you mean it cannot be found in the NT?  yeah, I agree.

Jesus approved of it and said it was good. As He approved of it, we know it is not rescinded, and neither are the distinct promises of God concerning it. If there is a promise of God connected to anything, we can surely hold Him to it.

No one here said we should not give 10%.  No one here said that.  People need to know the difference between what is in the Bible and what is man-made doctrine.  God wants us in the NT to give AS WE PURPOSED IN OUR HEARTS.  Go preach that.

Giving is separate from the tithe. We are to do that, too.

If people will give God the benefit of the doubt and trust him... instead of a man-made law, they will see God is far more powerful to influence his people to be giving generously than trying to inspire them with guilt and remorse.  Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

It is the mark of absolute trust, as God says, to tithe.

Where does it say we are commanded to tithe a tithe that is not for the levites or to be delivered to the temple in Jesuralem?

Where is that command?  God stated in Deu 12:8,32 that we should not preach a different tithing than what was delivered to Moses.

Peace

[Talking Donkey]

I showed you the scriptures that say that 100% of our money is ours.  What you do with it, is up to you.

God is into givers, not into payers of debt.

The law ruins the offering if we have to do it, instead of doing it because we love to do it.

Peace

[Lively Stone]

Many Christians have not learned the concept of Divine Ownership nor that of Dominion. As a result, they have a distorted view of the purpose of their finances. Here is an explanation of these two important principles.

THE PRINCIPLE OF DOMINION

GENESIS 1:26
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

GENESIS 1:27
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

GENESIS 1:28
Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living t hing that moves on the earth."


The word, 'dominion' comes from the Hebrew word, 'radah' , meaning, 'to rule over, to reign over that which is owned by God'.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance:  radah, raw-daw'; a prim. root; to tread down, i.e. subjugate; spec. to crumble off:-(come to, make to) have dominion, prevail against, reign, (bear, make to) rule, (-r, over), take. In other words, God has given us the ability and the command to rule and reign over his property and to become faithful stewards.

The Law of Tithing

God has given mankind the exclusive right or dominion to rule over His property and world. We have not only been given the right of dominion, but we are also "free moral agents," able to make our own decisions and to determine our own actions. Therefore, man can bless God with his actions or curse God with his actions. Obedience blesses God, while disobedience is a reproach unto God . Tithing blesses, while not tithing is obviously a reproach.


DIVINE OWNERSHIP

If this principle could finally be understood in the hearts of all Christians, then the problems associated with giving and tithing would be over.

GOD OWNS EVERYTHING!

PSALMS 24:1
The earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein .

PSALMS 50:10
For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on a thousand hills.

PSALMS 50:11
I know all the birds of the mountains, And the wild beasts of the field are Mine .

HAGGAI 2:8
'The silver is Mine, and the gold is Mine,' says the Lord of hosts.

EZEKIEL 18:4
"Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine; the soul who sins shall die.

ROMANS 14:8
For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.

1 CORINTHIANS 6:20
For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 CORINTHIANS 10:26
For 'The earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness .'

God owns everything and we are merely stewards over His possessions!

Based upon the above scriptures and many, many others, it is clear that the entire earth, world, gold, silver, animals, and all people are God's! The principle of divine ownership teaches us that there is nothing that does not belong to God Himself! Whereas, the principle of dominion teaches us that mankind has been given stewardship over God's property.

This is a very timely message and teaching for the Body of Christ today! Especially living in a world of intense greed, selfishness and hedonism.

So many Christians today fail to realize that God has asked and even commanded them to give and to tithe! It is a very disappointing fact that 80% of the finances of any church is given by only 20% of the people.

Christian maturity is not based upon the concept of "God, what can You give me?" Rather, it is an attitude which expresses gratitude to God and a thank You, Lord, for what You have done for me, now what can I do for You in return? Mature and even new, well-founded Christians see the need and fill it. They see their responsibility and respond to it.


One of the greatest injustices that many pastors have done to their people is to insist that God demands one-tenth of our income and one-seventh of our week. The implication is that the other nine-tenths of our income and the other six days of the week are ours to do as we please. The real truth is that everything belongs to God! Not only the tithe, but everything else: 100% belongs to Him. We are simply stewards being obedient to our Heavenly Master---Jesus Christ, our LORD and Saviour. The tithe is simply the basic starting point in our Christian financial commitment.

[Talking Donkey]

So, are we robbing Gd when we do not return everything to him?  is that the way to prove there is a law of 10%?

There is no law demanding to give to God 10% of our salary... No where in the Bible.

Is Acts 5:4 a lie?  No it isn't.  Neither is Rom 4:4 a lie.

Peace

[Lively Stone]

So, are we robbing Gd when we do not return everything to him?  is that the way to prove there is a law of 10%?

There is no law demanding to give to God 10% of our salary... No where in the Bible.

Is Acts 5:4 a lie?  No it isn't.  Neither is Rom 4:4 a lie.

Peace

God says we rob Him when we withhold from Him what is His.

You are putting our ability to reason and judge, above the word of God.

If you believe the NT, you will believe it was the HS quoting the OT.

It is bad when we think of ourselves as better than God.  God asked abraham to kill his son, that is in the NT.  Deal with it.

Peace

The only people who make a huge issue of tithing are those that reject it. Those who tithe are happy doing so, do not complain, and receive the promised blessings from God for doing so.

[Talking Donkey]

So, are we robbing Gd when we do not return everything to him?  is that the way to prove there is a law of 10%?

There is no law demanding to give to God 10% of our salary... No where in the Bible.

Is Acts 5:4 a lie?  No it isn't.  Neither is Rom 4:4 a lie.

Peace

God says we rob Him when we withhold from Him what is His.

You are putting our ability to reason and judge, above the word of God.

If you believe the NT, you will believe it was the HS quoting the OT.

It is bad when we think of ourselves as better than God.  God asked abraham to kill his son, that is in the NT.  Deal with it.

Peace

The only people who make a huge issue of tithing are those that reject it. Those who tithe are happy doing so, do not complain, and receive the promised blessings from God for doing so.

God said the Israelites were robbing him (not anyone on the Church), when they did not give God 10% of the produce of the land, because it was God that made the plants grow and bear fruit, it was God the one that did most of the work.  That is why it is written concerning his blessing....

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

See?

I go to a Church with 550 families.  I was the treasurer of that Church for 3 years.  The ones that gave the most were the ones preaching against tithing !!!!  Tithers could not compete with them.

So, stop praising yourself and stop assuming the ones preaching against tithinng give less than you, because one day (who knows?) you might find out, it is not true.   No one is robbing God of anything that is established by a man made command.  10% of people's salary?  Where is that?

Preach Deu 12:8,32 ... preach that, tell people not to distort or change the old tithing law to something that seems good in their eyes... tell them the tithe is only acceptable by God in the Temple in Jerusalem.  Tell them the truth.

DEU 12:5  But unto the place which the LORD your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come:
6  And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
7  And there ye shall eat before the LORD your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and your households, wherein the LORD thy God hath blessed thee.
8  Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.
9  For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.
10  But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;
11  Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:
12  And ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God, ye, and your sons, and your daughters, and your menservants, and your maidservants, and the Levite that is within your gates; forasmuch as he hath no part nor inheritance with you.
13 Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest:
14  But in the place which the LORD shall choose in one of thy tribes, there thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and there thou shalt do all that I command thee.
15  Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart.
16  Only ye shall not eat the blood; ye shall pour it upon the earth as water.
17  Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:
18  But thou must eat them before the LORD thy God in the place which the LORD thy God shall choose, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that is within thy gates: and thou shalt rejoice before the LORD thy God in all that thou puttest thine hands unto.
19  Take heed to thyself that thou forsake not the Levite as long as thou livest upon the earth.
20  When the LORD thy God shall enlarge thy border, as he hath promised thee, and thou shalt say, I will eat flesh, because thy soul longeth to eat flesh; thou mayest eat flesh, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.
21  If the place which the LORD thy God hath chosen to put his name there be too far from thee, then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the LORD hath given thee, as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat in thy gates whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.
22  Even as the roebuck and the hart is eaten, so thou shalt eat them: the unclean and the clean shall eat of them alike.
23  Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.
24  Thou shalt not eat it; thou shalt pour it upon the earth as water.
25  Thou shalt not eat it; that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, when thou shalt do that which is right in the sight of the LORD.
26  Only thy holy things which thou hast, and thy vows, thou shalt take, and go unto the place which the LORD shall choose:
27  And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the LORD thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the LORD thy God, and thou shalt eat the flesh.
28  Observe and hear all these words which I command thee, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee for ever, when thou doest that which is good and right in the sight of the LORD thy God.
29  When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land;
30  Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
31  Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
32  What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Go and preach that.

Peace

[Lively Stone]

I go to a Church with 550 families.  I was the treasurer of that Church for 3 years.  The ones that gave the most were the ones preaching against tithing !!!!  Tithers could not compete with them.

How very sad.

It isn't that way in good, thriving churches where most are tithers. Because we believe in the promises of God concerning the tithe, we benefit by it and our giving is with 'hilarity'. A plain giver could not compete, although we do not invite competition. Tithing is a spiritually discerned practice and not something to demand.

[Talking Donkey]

I go to a Church with 550 families.  I was the treasurer of that Church for 3 years.  The ones that gave the most were the ones preaching against tithing !!!!  Tithers could not compete with them.

Tithing is a spiritually discerned practice and not something to demand.

Well, we agree on that.  God is not demanding 10% of anyone.  And since he is not demanding it, it is not a sin for those not giving 10% of their salary as the man-made ordnance calls for.  We finally agree.

Peace

[Lively Stone]

I go to a Church with 550 families.  I was the treasurer of that Church for 3 years.  The ones that gave the most were the ones preaching against tithing !!!!  Tithers could not compete with them.

Tithing is a spiritually discerned practice and not something to demand.

Well, we agree on that.  God is not demanding 10% of anyone.  And since he is not demanding it, it is not a sin for those not giving 10% of their salary as the man-made ordnance calls for.  We finally agree.

Peace

I believe it is a sin only in those who refuse to do what God is telling them to do. Those who are ignorant of tithing cannot be held accountable for it, and they are included with the disobedient in not receiving the special promises of God concerning the tithe.

[Talking Donkey]

The tithing law went away with the temple. God was very clear, the tithing is only acceptable in the temple.  so, that law is no more.  Where there is no law, there is no transgression.

If people are not receiving a blessing, then they are accountable, for God is still making his blessings contingent upon the practice,... So, make up our mind.  If it is a law that is still in effect today, then it is a sin not to do it, and we are accountable.  Which is it?  Make up your mind.

There is only one answer.  In the NT, God wants us to Give (not pay) as we purpose in our hearts.  That is the only money God sees as welcome, the only kind we give with cheerful heart.  Tithings are not a gift, they are a payment, like my mortgage.  The bank never sends me a letter back praising my faithfulness in making the payments because payments have nothing to do with the cheerfulness of the heart.  They are an obligation.  God is not interested in that kind of offering.

Besides, tithing speaks about the righteousness of man.  In the NT, we are all about the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and none of ours.  Actually, our righteousness is manure, dung... Phil 3:4-9.  Our righteousness is the righteousness of Jesus imputed on us by faith.  The only one worth anything, or worth talking about.

Peace

[Lively Stone]

The tithing law went away with the temple. God was very clear, the tithing is only acceptable in the temple.  so, that law is no more.  Where there is no law, there is no transgression.

If people are not receiving a blessing, then they are accountable, for God is still making his blessings contingent upon the practice,... So, make up our mind.  If it is a law that is still in effect today, then it is a sin not to do it, and we are accountable.  Which is it?  Make up your mind.

There is only one answer.  In the NT, God wants us to Give (not pay) as we purpose in our hearts.  That is the only money God sees as welcome, the only kind we give with cheerful heart.  Tithings are not a gift, they are a payment, like my mortgage.  The bank never sends me a letter back praising my faithfulness in making the payments because payments have nothing to do with the cheerfulness of the heart.  Tere are an obligation.  God is not interested in that kind of offering.

Besides, tithing speaks about the righteousness of man.  In the NT, we are all about the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and none of ours.  Actually, our righteousness is manure, dung... Phil 3:4-9.  Our righteousness is the righteousness of Jesus imputed on us by faith.  The only one worth anything, or worth talking about.

Peace

Tithing is not Mosaic law---it came before Mosaic Law. Abraham tithed. Jacob tithed. It is beyond the Law.

Tithing doesn't speak of our righteousness, but rather speaks of our complete trust in the Father, Jehovah Jireh, from whose hand we receive EVERYTHING, and who owns EVERYTHING.

[garyarnold]

Tithing is not Mosaic law---it came before Mosaic Law. Abraham tithed. Jacob tithed. It is beyond the Law.

Tithing doesn't speak of our righteousness, but rather speaks of our complete trust in the Father, Jehovah Jireh, from whose hand we receive EVERYTHING, and who owns EVERYTHING.

Please show me scripture which tells us that Jacob tithed.  He made a vow WITH CONDITIONS, but I find no scripture showing that he ever honored that vow.

Please show scripture where Abram ever tithed anything other than war spoils.  Please show me scripture to show that Abraham tithed more than one time.

Hebrews 7:7 (KJV)  "And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

[Talking Donkey]

The tithing law went away with the temple. God was very clear, the tithing is only acceptable in the temple.  so, that law is no more.  Where there is no law, there is no transgression.

If people are not receiving a blessing, then they are accountable, for God is still making his blessings contingent upon the practice,... So, make up our mind.  If it is a law that is still in effect today, then it is a sin not to do it, and we are accountable.  Which is it?  Make up your mind.

There is only one answer.  In the NT, God wants us to Give (not pay) as we purpose in our hearts.  That is the only money God sees as welcome, the only kind we give with cheerful heart.  Tithings are not a gift, they are a payment, like my mortgage.  The bank never sends me a letter back praising my faithfulness in making the payments because payments have nothing to do with the cheerfulness of the heart.  Tere are an obligation.  God is not interested in that kind of offering.

Besides, tithing speaks about the righteousness of man.  In the NT, we are all about the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and none of ours.  Actually, our righteousness is manure, dung... Phil 3:4-9.  Our righteousness is the righteousness of Jesus imputed on us by faith.  The only one worth anything, or worth talking about.

Peace

Tithing is not Mosaic law---it came before Mosaic Law. Abraham tithed. Jacob tithed. It is beyond the Law.

Tithing doesn't speak of our righteousness, but rather speaks of our complete trust in the Father, Jehovah Jireh, from whose hand we receive EVERYTHING, and who owns EVERYTHING.

The Greek word for that is boloney (bologna).

There was no law of tithing before Moses.  

Abraham tithed the spoils of war, not his salary.  He gave 10% to Melchizedeck and 90% back to the people, he kept nothing of the spoils of war for himself.  Do you tithe like that?  Do you keep nothing for yourself?  Abraham gave in accordance to NT way of doing business, he gave as he purposed in his heart.  He did not go around preaching that to be under a blessing, people needed to be like him and give 10%.  Abraham never preached a tithing law like you are doing.

Jabot made a conditional vow...  And the reason why he made a vow was because there was no law of tithing back then.

Jesus recommended us to avoid making vows...

And tithing is counted for sure as our own righteousness, if it is not our righteousness, who's is it?

I preached tithing for many years.... Been there, boasted about that...already.

The practice of tithing is before the law, Yes.  But the law of tithing, started with Moses and was finished at the cross and went away with the destruction of the temple.  I asked an orthodox Jew if he tithed and he told me:  "I can't, there is no temple.". Now, that's a man that knows the word well.

Peace

[Lively Stone]

There is always an excuse in those who reject the tithe. I had them all at one time, but the difference was that I wanted to know what God thought about it, so I prayed and prayed and asked God to show me the truth and then I set about to wait on His answer. I didn't argue my points...I waited on God because I wanted to please Him rather than myself.

He has shown me that tithing is for everyone and that it has not been rescinded, for He has impressed upon His people by His Spirit since Abraham to tithe a tenth. It matters not whether it was spoils from battle or not. It is based on the increase.

He is blessed by our complete trust in Him and by our showing it by tithing. It isn't easy sometimes! But His promises are dependable and He makes a way where there seems to be no way---because it is all His in the first place. He is a most generous God for allowing us 90% of our income to do with as we wish.

Closed fists over our dollars and possessions is not trusting God as Provider.

[Lively Stone]

The tithing law went away with the temple. God was very clear, the tithing is only acceptable in the temple.  so, that law is no more.  Where there is no law, there is no transgression.

If people are not receiving a blessing, then they are accountable, for God is still making his blessings contingent upon the practice,... So, make up our mind.  If it is a law that is still in effect today, then it is a sin not to do it, and we are accountable.  Which is it?  Make up your mind.

There is only one answer.  In the NT, God wants us to Give (not pay) as we purpose in our hearts.  That is the only money God sees as welcome, the only kind we give with cheerful heart.  Tithings are not a gift, they are a payment, like my mortgage.  The bank never sends me a letter back praising my faithfulness in making the payments because payments have nothing to do with the cheerfulness of the heart.  Tere are an obligation.  God is not interested in that kind of offering.

Besides, tithing speaks about the righteousness of man.  In the NT, we are all about the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and none of ours.  Actually, our righteousness is manure, dung... Phil 3:4-9.  Our righteousness is the righteousness of Jesus imputed on us by faith.  The only one worth anything, or worth talking about.

Peace

Tithing is not Mosaic law---it came before Mosaic Law. Abraham tithed. Jacob tithed. It is beyond the Law.

Tithing doesn't speak of our righteousness, but rather speaks of our complete trust in the Father, Jehovah Jireh, from whose hand we receive EVERYTHING, and who owns EVERYTHING.

The Greek word for that is boloney (bologna).

There was no law of tithing before Moses.  

Tithing was a practice before Moses.

Those who make the loudest noise against tithing aren't trusting Him fully. Tithing is the ONE thing that God asks us to test Him in. Test Him and find Him faithful!

[garyarnold]

THE FIRST TITHE
Leviticus 27:30-33 defines this tithe as a tenth of crops and animals in herds and flocks.
Numbers 18 gives the ordinances, or instructions, for this tithe, and commands this tithe be taken to the Levites.
Purpose of this tithe:  to support the Levitical Priesthood.

SECOND TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:22-27: aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take for the yearly feast.
Purpose of this tithe:  "that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always

[Lively Stone]

Malachi 3:7-12

Giving to God a Tenth Part
7 "From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My Laws and have not obeyed them. Return to Me, and I will return to you,

[Talking Donkey]

Listen, if you can't find Scriptures to back up your doctrine, please, do not tell me that "God told you specifically... About the doctrine to be ok."  I go with ISA 8:20 To the law and the testimony, if they speak not according to this word there is no light in them.  No one is ever going to get my attention by telling me: "this doctrine is true because God told me."

Let me say it again, stop assuming that those that preach the truth about the super-seeded law of tithing, that they give less than you.  Stop arguing doctrine by attacking the character of those of different opinion.  Who knows... They might be better than you in the area of giving.

And one day we all know.... I am so looking forward for that day.

Peace

[Lively Stone]

Listen, if you can't find Scriptures to back up your doctrine, please, do not tell me that "God told you specifically... About the doctrine to be ok."  I go with ISA 8:20 To the law and the testimony, if they speak not according to this word there is no light in them.  No one is ever going to get my attention by telling me: "this doctrine is true because God told me."

Let me say it again, stop assuming that those that preach the truth about the super-seeded law of tithing, that they give less than you.  Stop arguing doctrine by attacking the character of those of different opinion.  Who knows... They might be better than you in the area of giving.

And one day we all know.... I am so looking forward for that day.

Peace

Are you in competition, here? Who said anything about the amount anyone gives or tithes? How shallow!

You cannot outgive God.

[Talking Donkey]

<<<<Tithing was a practice before Moses.>>>>

Show me the verse that says it was a law before Moses.

<<<<<Tithing is the ONE thing that God asks us to test Him in. Test Him and find Him faithful!
[/quote]

God did not ask any Christian in the NT to test him on that, he told the farmers in Israel to test them on that.  Big difference.

God told us in the NT to give as we purposed in our hearts, not out of necessity !!! Get it?  Do not give because you think have to, do not give because you believe it is needed to meet certain standard, do not give out of necessity.

Peace

[Lively Stone]

<<<<Tithing was a practice before Moses.>>>>

Show me the verse that says it was a law before Moses.

<<<<<Tithing is the ONE thing that God asks us to test Him in. Test Him and find Him faithful!


God did not ask any Christian in the NT to test him on that, he told the farmers in Israel to test them on that.  Big difference.

God told us in the NT to give as we purposed in our hearts, not out of necessity !!! Get it?  Do not give because you think have to, do not give because you believe it is needed to meet certain standard, do not give out of necessity.

Peace

The Bible is the Bible, man. He asks us all to test Him in any promise He has ever made for none of them have gone out of date. Tithing is not a law for us unless you choose to make it one of many legalistic laws that many Christians make.

We pay the tithe because we trust God with EVERYTHING, and His guarantees surrounding the practice are wonderful! We give offerings as we purpose in our hearts.

[Talking Donkey]

In the New Testament we are driven by love generated on the inside of us by the Holy Spirit.

The Old Testament was driving people to do the right thing through the fear of the law and the sentence.

Wanna make Jesus your Lord?  Love him.

Wanna make him our enemy?  Go around taking his place by teaching as doctrines commandments of men.  Then it will be fulfilled, our hearts will be far from him and our worship will be in vain.

If the law could make us perfect (Heb 10:1) we would not need a NT.  No one can trigger a single miracle by keeping the law.  Much less, by keeping man-made laws.

Peace

[garyarnold]

Malachi 3:7-12

Giving to God a Tenth Part
7 "From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My Laws and have not obeyed them.....

Did you actually read verse 7 above?  Pastor's seldom start with verse 7 because it totally destroys their tithing arguments.

Now, do you know exactly which laws the Israelites had turned aside from and not obeyed?  Try Leviticus 27:30-33 and Numbers 18, which God commands His tithe be taken to the Levites.

You see, if you are going to quote Malachi 3:7, what you are quoting is saying that if you don't follow God's laws, you will be robbing Him.  Do YOU follow God's laws and tithe from crops and animals raised on the Holy land?  Do YOU follow God's law and take the tithe to the Levites?  If you take the tithe to other than a Levite, per Malachi 3:7-10 YOU are robbing God.

[Lively Stone]

Wanna truly worship God? Tithe!

The custom of tithing is a timeless practice of worship. The first recorded instance of tithing in the Bible occurs in Genesis 14:14-20. This passage shows that even before any law was written, tithing was the custom.

The practice of giving a tenth of income or property was a part of the Mosaic law (Lev 27: 20). Jacob also, long before the law of Moses, promised that he would give to the Lord a tenth of all he received (Genesis 28:22). The law you refer to comes from the Law of Moses that prescribed tithing in detailed ways that extended in practices observed in Israel's history.

I want you to be assured that God does not make a legal demand declaring that if we don't tithe we will not go to heaven. Salvation's promise transcends legalistic demands. But there is a principle of tithing and giving which God has wrapped into the very structure of creation. When the redeemed learn to let go, to give, to release, room is made for life and abundance to flow into their lives according to God's order.

But as you said, some still ask: "Isn't tithing only in the OT?" or "Isn't it part of the law"? This doubt makes tithing a part of the law and therefore without meaning to the NT believers. Some even say to teach tithing will deprive the believer of liberty and move him or her "into law without grace"

But the truth of the tithe is not only in the OT. The NT shows tithing as being as appropriate today as for believers during all of history. God's word also reveals that all His blessings and covenants are of grace, not law.

Jesus addressed the issue of tithing:
"Woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin, and have neglected the wealthier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith.These you ought have done, without leaving the others undone" (Matt23:23,..Luke 11;42)

Jesus was dealing with the Pharisee, those who attended to the letter of the law but neglected its spiritual demands. In observing that they tithes, Jesus was challenging their supposition that obedience to a "ritual" released them from the larger reality of obedience to love's responsibility.

Tithing as a NT practice is even further verified in the book of Romans. We are specifically admonished to walk "in the steps of faith which our father Abraham" walked (Romans 4:12). In tracing the footsteps of Abraham, we find "and he gave him (Melchizedek) a tithe of all" (Genesis 14:20). Abraham reveals that tithing was established in the Scriptures before the Law of Moses. It precedes and transcends the Mosaic code as a principle built into the fabric of the human order of things.

So, tithing may have begin in the OT, but its spirit, truth and practice continue today

As to budgeting: Look at your budget as it stands today given your situation. After all expenses and debt obligations, is there anything left. Start tithing on what is left and as God allows you to climb out of your obligations then begin to increase. Re-evaluate regularly.

For instance if you have an income of $2000 a month and after you paid your bills have $100 left, tithe on the $100 to start. Then re-evaluate and increase it accordingly until your situation changes.

As to stewardship: We are called to be faithful steward of all our possessions. So tithing and stewardship are not separate issues. We recognize that all we have is from God, including our money

Romans 14:12
1 Corinthians 9: 3-14, 16:1-3
2 Corinthians 8-9

[garyarnold]

Tithing is not a law for us unless you choose to make it one of many legalistic laws that many Christians make.

They WHY did you quote from Malachi 3 which is where God is referring TO HIS LAWS? 

[Lively Stone]

Malachi 3:7-12

Giving to God a Tenth Part
7 "From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My Laws and have not obeyed them.....

Did you actually read verse 7 above?  Pastor's seldom start with verse 7 because it totally destroys their tithing arguments.

Now, do you know exactly which laws the Israelites had turned aside from and not obeyed?  Try Leviticus 27:30-33 and Numbers 18, which God commands His tithe be taken to the Levites.

You see, if you are going to quote Malachi 3:7, what you are quoting is saying that if you don't follow God's laws, you will be robbing Him.  Do YOU follow God's laws and tithe from crops and animals raised on the Holy land?  Do YOU follow God's law and take the tithe to the Levites?  If you take the tithe to other than a Levite, per Malachi 3:7-10 YOU are robbing God.

We were living under a curse for not tithing, under a great deal of debt and trouble. That trouble was certainly not the blessing of God! Within a few months of beginning to tithe, we were completely out of debt. God honoured us and caused our dollars to go further than they would have had we not honoured Him first with our finances.

God's word is gold!

[Lively Stone]

Tithing is not a law for us unless you choose to make it one of many legalistic laws that many Christians make.

They WHY did you quote from Malachi 3 which is where God is referring TO HIS LAWS? 

Malachi 3 contains the promises for us!