Tithing - A Criticism Answered

[garyarnold]

I am simply sharing what the Lord has spoken to us.

And I have shared what the Lord has spoken to me, which is the opposite of what you claim the Lord said to you.

Again, the ONLY way you can possibly know if it were really the Lord who speaks is IF what is spoken lines up perfectly with His Word.

The Lord has told me to tell the people that he did NOT intend for anyone to tithe on their income.  That lines up perfectly with His Word.

[NTPREACHER4U]

Malachi 3:7-12

Giving to God a Tenth Part
7 "From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My Laws and have not obeyed them.....

Did you actually read verse 7 above?  Pastor's seldom start with verse 7 because it totally destroys their tithing arguments.

Now, do you know exactly which laws the Israelites had turned aside from and not obeyed?  Try Leviticus 27:30-33 and Numbers 18, which God commands His tithe be taken to the Levites.

You see, if you are going to quote Malachi 3:7, what you are quoting is saying that if you don't follow God's laws, you will be robbing Him.  Do YOU follow God's laws and tithe from crops and animals raised on the Holy land?  Do YOU follow God's law and take the tithe to the Levites?  If you take the tithe to other than a Levite, per Malachi 3:7-10 YOU are robbing God.

We were living under a curse for not tithing, under a great deal of debt and trouble. That trouble was certainly not the blessing of God! Within a few months of beginning to tithe, we were completely out of debt. God honoured us and caused our dollars to go further than they would have had we not honoured Him first with our finances.

God's word is gold!

According to scriptures, you are not tithing unless it is food to be consumed by the Levitical priesthood. Also, the year of the tithe where you feed the father less, widows and the preists.

Paul is very clear, that those that preach the gospel live of the gospel. He didn't say the tithe.    

1Cr 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen

1Cr 9:10   Or saith he [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

1Cr 9:10   Or saith he [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

1Cr 9:12   If others be partakers of [this] power over you, [are] not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.  

1Cr 9:13   Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live [of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

1Cr 9:14   Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.  

1Cr 9:15   But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for [it were] better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.  

Nothing about tithing there and he is talking about money.

1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer [is] worthy of his reward.

Which confirms what Jesus taught as well

Luk 10:7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.

Here is robbering in the NT.

2Cr 11:8 I robbed other churches, taking wages [of them], to do you service.

2Cr 11:9   And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all [things] I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and [so] will I keep [myself].  

2Cr 12:14 Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you; and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours, but you: for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children.

and

1Th 2:6 Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor [yet] of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.

Paul and those he sent was not burdesome to the church but preached the gospel with power and signs following.

Grace to all.

According to God I am tithing. Thanks.

If you believe you are tithing according the Old Testament, then you don't know what it says about tithing. Not one place is the tithe money and they had money since Genesis. It was the Isrealites that had crops from their harvest, animals spices are these are things you eat, not money. Then you have to bring them to the temple and present them to the Leviictical priest who had no land but the tithe was their reward for their work of the temple.

If you do none of these, then how can you say you are tithing according to  God. Show me the scriptures that you are doing, that says you tithe from your income. It's not in the OLD Testament. Jesus was God in the flesh and it is not recorded that anyone tithed to him or that he tithed from his income he recieved from his work in the ministry.

The New Testament never says how much to give when you give alms or give to the a pastor or man of God the preaches the gospel.

Prove yourself that you be in the faith. Examine yourself that Jesus Christ is in you and his words are in you teaching and correcting one another. The law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Today God is talking to us by his Son that he made the heir of the world. What did Jesus say about Tithing to his followers?

Grace to all.

[NTPREACHER4U]

The full tithe is to go to the storehouse---the local church.
That's not Biblical.

Malachi 3:10-11
Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
      That there may be food in My house,
Notice the word FOOD in my house?  FOOD, not money.
     

      " If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
      And pour out for you such blessing
RAIN.  The blessing was RAIN so that...
      That there will not be room enough to receive it.

       11 " And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes,
      So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground,
      Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field,

[NTPREACHER4U]

No changing is happening. It is revelation--rhema.

It is nothing but your mind.  You've been brainwashed.  That's all there is to it.

But if it makes you happy, maybe helps your ego, you will do what you want to do and rationalize it.

Jesus paid the whole price.  Those who think tithing is appropriate today are generally cheapskates.  They give a tenth and think they have done their part.

You can use the Old Testament as your guideline if you wish.  I will continue to use the Holy Spirit and be a generous giver, from the heart, as the Spirit leads me.  I have been blessed financially (and in many other ways) beyond my dreams without ever tithing.  Yet I know many who believe in tithing and have trouble making it from paycheck to paycheck.

Actually it is the anti-tither that tends toward cheapness. I find it insulting that what God has spoken to me and my husband you denounce as brainwashing. Of course it isn't at all.

Paying the tithe is the outward expression of inner commitment — or lack of it. It is material and financial surrender prompted by spiritual surrender.

The tenth is only the start.

We know that God owns everything and he has given us the role of stewardship, with the firstfruits returning to Him. It is a pleasure to honour and worship God in this way.

I don't know ANY tithers (and most people I know are tithers) who live paycheck to paycheck and have financial difficulties. God's promise of provision comes into play for them.

I can say the opposite. I know a lot of tithers that are financilly broke, living pay check to pay check. When I did tithe(deiceved) I had to get a second job to make ends meet, which I was hardly home, but when I saw the truth, that tithing is not a NT teaching that Jesus  taught and that we are to be led by the Spirit and to give cheerfully, I never lived in lack again. In fact I paid my debts off, cleaned my credit up and gave as the Lord directed me always cheefully. And as a gentile that turned to God, the leaders in the book of Acts never told them to tithe but those that told them to follow the law of Moses were falser brethern trying to subvert thier souls.

Grace to all.

[Lively Stone]

No changing is happening. It is revelation--rhema.

It is nothing but your mind.  You've been brainwashed.  That's all there is to it.

But if it makes you happy, maybe helps your ego, you will do what you want to do and rationalize it.

Jesus paid the whole price.  Those who think tithing is appropriate today are generally cheapskates.  They give a tenth and think they have done their part.

You can use the Old Testament as your guideline if you wish.  I will continue to use the Holy Spirit and be a generous giver, from the heart, as the Spirit leads me.  I have been blessed financially (and in many other ways) beyond my dreams without ever tithing.  Yet I know many who believe in tithing and have trouble making it from paycheck to paycheck.

Actually it is the anti-tither that tends toward cheapness. I find it insulting that what God has spoken to me and my husband you denounce as brainwashing. Of course it isn't at all.

Paying the tithe is the outward expression of inner commitment — or lack of it. It is material and financial surrender prompted by spiritual surrender.

The tenth is only the start.

We know that God owns everything and he has given us the role of stewardship, with the firstfruits returning to Him. It is a pleasure to honour and worship God in this way.

I don't know ANY tithers (and most people I know are tithers) who live paycheck to paycheck and have financial difficulties. God's promise of provision comes into play for them.

I can say the opposite. I know a lot of tithers that are financilly broke, living pay check to pay check. When I did tithe(deiceved) I had to get a second job to make ends meet, which I was hardly home, but when I saw the truth, that tithing is not a NT teaching that Jesus  taught and that we are to be led by the Spirit and to give cheerfully, I never lived in lack again. In fact I paid my debts off, cleaned my credit up and gave as the Lord directed me always cheefully. And as a gentile that turned to God, the leaders in the book of Acts never told them to tithe but those that told them to follow the law of Moses were falser brethern trying to subvert thier souls.

Grace to all.

Many non-tithers have more money that tithers, but they still suffer lack of on various fronts. They do not trust God completely with everything, nor do they believe that God owns everything, but they hold that their money is their very own.

[Talking Donkey]

Thank God for New Testament preachers!

We know there are bacteria and germs in our hands.  People get sick for not washing their hands.

Shall I preach that we are called to wash our hands before eating as a Rhema word?  

Shall I quote the old testament where it says the priest had to wash their hands before entering the Tabernacle as proof that we will be blessed if we wash our hands and be robbed of a health-blessing if we don't?

Peace

[garyarnold]

We know that God owns everything and he has given us the role of stewardship, with the firstfruits returning to Him.

Firstfruits means the first of the PRODUCE, not money or income.

Proverbs 3:9 (KJV)  "Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

[NTPREACHER4U]

I find it insulting that what God has spoken to me and my husband you denounce as brainwashing.

I don't believe it was God who spoke to you and your husband.  The reason I can't believe it, is because it contradicts God's Word.

Furthermore, just a few years ago I was asked by a pastor if I would teach a Sunday School Class in finances.  I agreed.  While preparing for the class is when I discovered that everything I had been taught about tithing was wrong.  I went back to the pastor and told him what I had found.  He said he would do his own research.  Days later he stopped teaching Malachi 3, and a few weeks later he stopped teaching tithing altogether.

When I saw the scriptures contradicted everything I have been taught about tithing, I prayed and prayed and prayed and ask the Lord to please show me the truth.  The Lord spoke to me and explained that tithing is on HIS miracles and NOT man's income.  He told me to "tell the people" that He never intended man to tithe on his income.

What I heard matches up perfectly with the scriptures.  What you heard does not.  The tithe was only on God's miraculous increase of FOOD from crops and animals.  Wage earners did not tithe.  Jesus, as a carpenter, did not tithe.  Until one gets the revelation from God that the Biblical tithe ALWAYS came from God's miracles and NEVER from man's income, one will never understand the Biblical tithe.

Awesome. The same thing happen to me.  A brother was struggling finanacilly and I wanted to help him out by finding the scriptures on tithing the NT and oops.....I couldn't. They are not there. Only in the OT will find the teaching and instructions on tithing. the curse for not and the blessings for doing it, but not in the NT.

Grace to all.

[gospel]

I believe tithing is of God, I believe God shows us in His Word that it is one of the ways He operates and it is embedded in the workings of the Universe as a principle... yet in the New Testament there are no curses from God attached to those who do not tithe

Look at it this way

The numbers 1-10 are representative of all numbers in that if you can count to ten you are able to count to infinity because once you get to ten you start over

So 10% represents the whole, mathematically and spiritually for God is the Master Mathematician but I digress

Now...in the world system, money is the means of exchange but before money, barter was the common means of exchange among the common person that being wheat, grain, oil, cattle and the like

In any case those things represent material substance and as such a means of exchange in the world system

However in the Kingdom, Faith is the means of exchange, in that the scripture says

The just shall live by Faith and Jesus even said if you have faith as small as a mustard seed you can basically do and have whatever you want.

Now back to God operating through tithing

God gave Jesus,

Jesus represented all humanity

Based on the principle of representation that the tithe represents

One can say Jesus was the tithe for mankind, taken one step further, the way I understand scripture

Jesus sacrifice was what the tithe represents

In other words I believe the tithe was a sign pointing to God's Plan of Salvation

Yet, even with that said, as a principle it is still effective according to the manner set forth in following scripture


If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. Romans 11:16

Mammon, or money is referred to by Jesus as unrighteous, yet Jesus respected those who handled it in a righteous manner and often cited wise managers for being wise and prudent in their way of handling it

Jesus definitely spoke favorably of expecting a return on that which was sown or invested

God expected a return on sowing Jesus

Jesus being sown made what remained ( us ) Holy and acceptable to God

When we tithe, we do so as unto God, and the 10% we give represents the whole of what we have and as such makes what remains holy

In other words tithing blesses what remains

This is why you hear people that tithe often having miraculous stories of blessings that cannot be explained in any other way, so much so that some people tithe beyond 10% to 20,30 and I have heard of some who are wealthy living off the tithe and giving the larger portion to the church

But back to the ordinary tither, I know for instance, my tires last longer, far less unexpected financial problems seem to pop up, our family tends to stay more healthy for extended periods of time and people in positions of authority tend to show us favor in approving projects, deals, promotions so on and so on, where others more qualified are not approved we are.

Things like that just cannot be explained or explained away...we believe it is through tithing, what remains is blessed

Because of Jesus, When we receive Him as Lord, we are made righteous and now belong to God, meaning we are Blessed.
Those who remain in the world are unrighteous AND DO NOT belong to God

To be made righteous they must give their lives as well

When we tithe our money, we are saying what we have left belongs to God and it is now righteous

When we do not tithe, what we have left remains identified with the world, unrighteous and as such is remains vulnerable to the ways of the world, so to speak

So Malachi is not saying God curses you

The curse is in the world

In the same way not being saved does not mean God curses you

The curse is in the world and you are already part of it

Lastly since what we tithe is on a means of exchange

one can exchange time and service in lieu of money

What I have stated is not conclusive by any means just the way I understand it

Sorry for the lengthiness 


I will say that tithing does not make one acceptable or unacceptable to God only Salvation through Christ

"What sorrow awaits you Pharisees! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore justice and the love of God. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things. Luke 11:42

Luke 18:12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'

[Lively Stone]

Thank you for your wise addition to this thread, gospel. You get manna!

[garyarnold]

One can say Jesus was the tithe for mankind, taken one step further, the way I understand scripture

Jesus sacrifice was what the tithe represents

In other words I believe the tithe was a sign pointing to God's Plan of Salvation

How absolutely terrible to infer that Jesus was the "tenth" for mankind.  Tithe means a tenth or tenth part.

How absolutely terrible to infer that Jesus sacrifice was only a tenth.

According to the International Bible Encyclopedia, the days of mere bartering ended before the days of Abraham.

Here are just a few examples from The Word to show they did, in fact, use money in Biblical times.

The tithing law itself proves they had both money and a marketing system for buying and selling their crops and animals (Deuteronomy 14:24-26).

THE PURCHASE OF LAND WITH MONEY BY ABRAHAM - Genesis 23:15-16

THE PURCHASE OF LAND WITH MONEY BY JACOB - Genesis 33:19

JOSEPH WAS SOLD TO THE ISHMEELITES FOR MONEY - Genesis 37:28

A MONEY OFFERING TO BE USED FOR THE SERVICE OF THE TABERNACLE - Exodus 30:14-16,

USING SHEKEL OF SILVER TO VALUE A RAM - Leviticus 5:15

THE FOLLOWING VERSES REFER TO WAGES: Genesis 29:15, Genesis 30:28, Genesis 31:7-8, Genesis 31:41, Exodus 2:9, Leviticus 19:13, Malachi 3:5, etc.

THEY HAD A MONEY STANDARD

There are several places in Scripture indicating that scales were used to weigh metals and other items. The Law of Moses, for example, commands Jews not to use dishonest standards, but instead, to use honest scales and honest weights. (See also Deut. 25:13-15; Job 6:2-3; 31:6; Psa. 62:9; Prov. 11:1; 16:11; 20:10, 23; Isa. 40:12; 46:6; and Jer. 32:10).

Leviticus 19:35-36 – Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight or quantity. Use honest scales and honest weights, an honest ephah and an honest hin. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt.

In order for money to be an exchangeable equivalent for other commodities in today's society, there must be a standard in place. Likewise, the Old Testament also had a set standard both prior to the law and during the law. A reference to a pre-law standard is in Genesis 23:16.

Merchants in biblical times traveled from place to place conducting business. According to the written law, the standard weight for metals was set according to the sanctuary shekel (See also Ex 30:13, 24; 38:24-26; Lev. 5:15; Num. 7:13-86; 18:16).

Leviticus 27:25 – Every value is to be set according to the sanctuary shekel, ...

In addition, 2 Samuel 14:26 shows that the weight standard for the shekel was set by the royal standard. No matter which era in history is studied, there existed a standard for the weight of precious metals.

Money was also used throughout the law. For example, God's people gave money to support the tabernacle (Ex. 30:14-16; 38:24-31). There are many other examples that illustrate money's place within the written law and indicate that money was indeed a part of everyday life. Exodus 35 provides such an example.

Exodus 35:5, 21-22 – From what you have, take an offering for the LORD. Everyone who is willing is to bring to the LORD an offering of gold, silver and bronze;

And there are many more examples to show that money was used for everyday transactions well before the Levitical tithe.

The number ten symbolizes a whole item, and also completion.

From Christian Resources Today, "Ten : 10  - Biblical Meaning of Number: deals with completeness that happens in a divine order or completed during a course of time. There's nothing that is left wanting within the complete cycle the number ten has just completed.

[gospel]

How absolutely terrible to infer that Jesus was the "tenth" for mankind.  Tithe means a tenth or tenth part. How absolutely terrible to infer that Jesus sacrifice was only a tenth.

In your zeal to argue you missed something, "PRINCIPLE"

The tithe " REPRESENTS" all your money

Jesus "REPRESENTED" all of mankind

The principle is "REPRESENTATION"

God gave Jesus and gained a family


I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. John 12:24


If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. Romans 11:16

"PRINCIPLE"

According to the International Bible Encyclopedia, the days of mere bartering ended before the days of Abraham.

So what!!

They still tithed in wheat and grain, sometimes out of all they had AND money

What is your point?

The number ten symbolizes a whole item, and also completion.

Same thing I said a different way, a 10th of something represents the whole the principle is REPRESENTATION

Yes God wants all of you but don't be religious! In other words that sounds good, it sounds like a nice religious thing to say

But in reality God knows you can't give Him a hundred percent

In other words if you have a job, if you are married, if you have children you already have obligated a huge majority of yourself to things other than God

That's to be expected and God frowns upon those who are not honorable in those responsibilities

The 10th also represents your faith, in that you are not totally dependent upon the world's means of exchange for your well being

It is not for God as much as it is for you

Helping you keep your focus on God's Provision rather than your paycheck

But there is no condemnation... if you don't

I'm just telling you the benefits

You don't have to avail yourself of it ...

....just understand that some people find it a blessing to tithe

others do not

[garyarnold]

Since the word tithe means a tenth, it can't possible represent ALL YOUR MONEY in principle.  That is ridiculous.  You need to find out what a principle is.

Money was NOT accepted as a tithe.  Yet money was REQUIRED to pay the Temple Tax (tribute in KJV).

You come up with some phony principles that don't even make sense. 

If Jesus REPRESENTS a tithe, you are saying that Jesus represents a TENTH.

100% represents ALL, not a tenth.

I can't believe how tithers resort to this kind of cock-and-bull story!

[garyarnold]

The 10th also represents your faith, in that you are not totally dependent upon the world's means of exchange for your well being

Maybe the tenth represents your faith, but surely not mine.  My faith is represented by 100%, not a tenth.

Pastors who teach tithing don't have faith that God will provide for His Church.  The pastor is putting his faith in man - that man will provide the funds for the church.

Tithing is a scam that started around 1870.  History proves it.  Money has corrupted the church big time.  However, many pastors don't teach tithing.  One, John MacArthur, has a mega church in Los Angeles, with thousands of members.  He teaches truth, and the money automatically comes in.  He doesn't need to come up with a bunch of bull and tell lies to get the people to give.

[Lively Stone]

The 10th also represents your faith, in that you are not totally dependent upon the world's means of exchange for your well being

Maybe the tenth represents your faith, but surely not mine.  My faith is represented by 100%, not a tenth.

Pastors who teach tithing don't have faith that God will provide for His Church.  The pastor is putting his faith in man - that man will provide the funds for the church.

Tithing is a scam that started around 1870.  History proves it.  Money has corrupted the church big time.  However, many pastors don't teach tithing.  One, John MacArthur, has a mega church in Los Angeles, with thousands of members.  He teaches truth, and the money automatically comes in.  He doesn't need to come up with a bunch of bull and tell lies to get the people to give.

Tithing represents to God that 100% is God's. It is the mark of one who fully trusts God for all things.

[garyarnold]

Tithing represents to God that 100% is God's. It is the mark of one who fully trusts God for all things.

Give scripture, please, to show that a tenth of your income represents to God that 100% is His.

One who fully trusts God for all things isn't concerned about a tenth.  They are concerned about the whole 100%.

[gospel]

Since the word tithe means a tenth, it can't possible represent ALL YOUR MONEY in principle.  That is ridiculous.  You need to find out what a principle is.

Money was NOT accepted as a tithe.  Yet money was REQUIRED to pay the Temple Tax (tribute in KJV).

You come up with some phony principles that don't even make sense. 

If Jesus REPRESENTS a tithe, you are saying that Jesus represents a TENTH.

100% represents ALL, not a tenth.

I can't believe how tithers resort to this kind of cock-and-bull story!

I see you're having difficulty with definitions I'll try again and then after that I'll just leave you to work it out for yourself

Forget 10th for a moment because you're getting hung up on that

Lets deal with Representation

An American Ambassador represents 300 million people, one person, 300 million people

We place an Embassy in a foreign nation, that Embassy represents America...are you following me?

You file an insurance claim they send an insurance agent, the agent is not the company he only represents the company.

Whatever he says to you the company is saying it, because he is an official representative of the company

You're buying a house, they require a down payment to seal the deal but the down payment does not purchase the house it only represents your good faith intention to follow through on the deal

REPRESENTATION!

Jesus fulfilled the Law, He met every requirement of the Old Covenant, He did it on behalf of the Jews and all those whom God would call through them.

Jesus was perfectly sinless, perfectly righteous and perfectly pleasing to the Father

Jesus represented YOU AND ME

YOU AND I should have been on the Cross but instead Jesus went to the Cross as Your and My representative

When God sees YOU he sees your REPRESENTATIVE


On top of that God is the one WHO GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN ( see John 3:16 )

Because Jesus went as a representative of ALL MANKIND

God went from having One Begotten Son to having many

He gave one as a representative to gain many

What are you missing about that

GIVING IS A PRINCIPLE,

TITHING IS A FORM OF GIVING

1 TENTH REPRESENTS THE WHOLE for the reasons already given

[garyarnold]

GIVING IS A PRINCIPLE,

TITHING IS A FORM OF GIVING

Using man's definition, tithing is a form of giving.  The Biblical tithe, however, was a payment, not a form of giving, according to Jesus in Matthew 23:23.  The Biblical tithe was a law, like a tax is a law.  The Israelites didn't tithe from the heart anymore than we pay our taxes from the heart.  The Biblical tithe had nothing to do with giving.  That is all man's teachings that misrepresents the Lord's tithe.

The Lord's tithe is defined in Leviticus 27:30-33 and the instructions are in Numbers 18.  Change any of that, and it no longer represents the Lord's tithe.

The word tithe does NOT mean give, it means tenth.  So when you say Jesus is the tithe, you are saying Jesus is the tenth.  The word tithe does not mean ten percent.  It means tenth.

If the Israelites had 19 new born animals in herds and flocks, the tithe was ONE animal.  One out of 19 = 5.26%

You are using the word tithe as though it means give, and it does not.

[larry2]

Matthew 23:23  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Do you mean there was a law of tithing, and a law of judgment, mercy and faith, and they should have done both?

1 Corinthian 16:1  Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

1 Corinthian 16:2  Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
 
Was the "As God hath prospered him," to be everything that person had? Is there the possibility it could have been ten percent?

[garyarnold]

1 Corinthian 16:1  Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

Notice, FOR THE SAINTS.  The collection was for the poor, not for some building, or salaries, etc.

For some, they may have given a tenth.  But tenth is not mentioned or inferred.

And notice in Matthew 23:23, Jesus did NOT say they should be tithing on their INCOME from their professions as teachers and lawyers.  Rather, the tithe came from the herbs - FOOD, and not from their income.

[Talking Donkey]

If we want to argue in favor of being generous with our money, then use the holy standard of the word of God in the new testament (verse 6).

2Cor 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

That principle of reaping proportionally to our sowing is a New Testament principle.  Preach that.  But the moment we mention the word "tithe" we are implying we give 10%, showing off our righteousness.  And when we go around telling others that our standard of giving (>10%) is what triggers blessings...we are crossing the line.   We should be really afraid of venturing into the land of preaching commandments of men, as if they are from God.  Giving is a gift of the spirit, and to measure spirituality relative to man made standard of one of the gifts, is nowhere to be found in the NT.  It is wrong to say that everyone is called to have one particular gift operating at one particular level, and that is what people do when they talk about tithing as something all Christians are called to do.

The tithe in the law of God was for the poor.  To tell the poor the reason they are poor is because they do not tithe goes against the word of God.  It is wrong to get tithe from the poor, the tithe is for the poor, not to get it extracted by telling them of a law that is not in effect.

Peace

[larry2]

1 Corinthian 16:1  Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

Are you familiar with the estimation of value of the tithe of Leviticus Chapter Twenty-seven being turned into silver?

And so I take it to mean that for every purpose of collecting it was to be of crops for the poor, or possible mint and cumin for the preacher? In Revelation Chapters Two and Three, we read of churches at certain locations; how were they supported?  Do you believe that there were any traditions passed down from the fathers they didn't write of? Doesn't as you have prospered indicate some scale of payment such as a percentage?

Personally I do not care than none others honor God in that matter; I feel blessed to have the opportunity to give in support of spreading God's word. If a tenth is not required, neither would any other amount would it? And then whatever we give is to God regardless of who we hand it to.

[garyarnold]

Are you familiar with the estimation of value of the tithe of Leviticus Chapter Twenty-seven being turned into silver?

ONLY IF the tithe of the crops is redeemed (purchased back), in which case a fifth had to be added to the value.  The tithe, itself, could NEVER be money.

The church is to be financed by free-will gifts.  And many churches are.  Many do not teach tithing and they do just fine without having to lie or beg for money.

[garyarnold]

And so I take it to mean that for every purpose of collecting it was to be of crops for the poor, or possible mint and cumin for the preacher?

Are you talking about Old Testament tithing or New Testament giving?

Either way, "collections" could be money or anything.  But the tithe was always FOOD from crops and animals, nothing else.

[larry2]

And so I take it to mean that for every purpose of collecting it was to be of crops for the poor, or possible mint and cumin for the preacher?

Are you talking about Old Testament tithing or New Testament giving?

Either way, "collections" could be money or anything.  But the tithe was always FOOD from crops and animals, nothing else.

Tithing or giving was sanctified unto the Lord in my thought. Leviticus 27:16  And if a man shall sanctify unto the LORD some part of a field of his possession, then thy estimation shall be according to the seed thereof: an homer of barley seed shall be valued at fifty shekels of silver. If a person redeemed that given to the Lord, there was the twenty percent estimation value added.
 
Were there laws governing giving? What of that that was to be given unto parents before the Church? That's where love was applied instead of law such as the corbin vowed. To me you can call our giving anything that satisfies you; do you believe it should be done and why if I might ask?

[garyarnold]

Were there laws governing giving?

Yes, there were.  There was mandatory giving, and there was free-will giving.

Tithing or giving was sanctified unto the Lord in my thought.

ONLY the tithe defined in Leviticus 27:30-33 was a Holy tithe.  It was Holy because it came from the Holy land.

In Leviticus 27, Moses is speaking to those who inherited the promised land.  He is not speaking to anyone else.  

What does all that have to do with tithing today?  NOTHING.

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was equal percentage (a tenth). The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving ten percent.

It is a moral obligation for those attending church services to support the church in all ways, including financial.  I always have, but not by tithing.  I also help families that I know are in need.  I believe that God wants me to be a generous giver, and I happen to be a cheerful giver.  I never think about the percent of my income that I am giving.  I think about the amount that is NEEDED to be given.

[Talking Donkey]

Let me say it again,

There is nothing wrong with being a vegetarian Christian.

There is nothing wrong with being single (unmarried) Christian.

There is nothing wrong with giving 10% of my salary to God.

But the Bible clearly states in 1 Tim 4:1-3 that the idea of teaching vegetarianism or celibacy as a more spiritual way of living, the teaching becomes a doctrine of devils.  there is nothing wrong with the practice, and yet, there is everything wrong with the teaching.  Why is it wrong?  Because when people start adding laws that did not come from God, they are taking the place of God.  Tithing is like that.  There is nothing wrong with the practice.  But we should not be teaching it as a doctrine of God.  There is no law of tithing since the temple disappeared.  As a result, no one is robbing God of anything by not giving to him.  God is not after our wallets!  The love of money is the root of all evil.  There is no evil in God.   God is after our hearts.  The issue here is not whether we should give.  That is a no brainer.  The issue is:  Are we now under the law of tithing?  Because if we are not, people should stop preaching that.  Let's stop measuring spirituality relative to our checkbook.  God is more impressed with people that do not praise themselves, do not accuse others, and are not into the righteousness of man (self righteousness).

God rather surrounds himself with grateful sinners that do not tithe, than with self righteous saints that go around telling people that we are all called to be like them.

Two men went to pray.... One was religious and tithed, the other one was a compulsive sinner in Luke 18:9-14....  The compulsive sinner went to heaven, the tithe went to he'll.   There is nothing wrong with tithing, but boosting about it sort of ruins everything about it.

Peace

[Lively Stone]

Let me say it again,

There is nothing wrong with being a vegetarian Christian.

There is nothing wrong with being single (unmarried) Christian.

There is nothing wrong with giving 10% of my salary to God.

But the Bible clearly states in 1 Tim 4:1-3 that the idea of teaching vegetarianism or celibacy as a more spiritual way of living, the teaching becomes a doctrine of devils.  there is nothing wrong with the practice, and yet, there is everything wrong with the teaching.  Why is it wrong?  Because when people start adding laws that did not come from God, they are taking the place of God.  Tithing is like that.  There is nothing wrong with the practice.  But we should not be teaching it as a doctrine of God.  There is no law of tithing since the temple disappeared.  As a result, no one is robbing God of anything by not giving to him.  God is not after our wallets!  The love of money is the root of all evil.  There is no evil in God.   God is after our hearts.  The issue here is not whether we should give.  That is a no brainer.  The issue is:  Are we now under the law of tithing?  Because if we are not, people should stop preaching that.  Let's stop measuring spirituality relative to our checkbook.  God is more impressed with people that do not praise themselves, do not accuse others, and are not into the righteousness of man (self righteousness).

God rather surrounds himself with grateful sinners that do not tithe, than with self righteous saints that go around telling people that we are all called to be like them.

Two men went to pray.... One was religious and tithed, the other one was a compulsive sinner in Luke 18:9-14....  The compulsive sinner went to heaven, the tithe went to he'll.   There is nothing wrong with tithing, but boosting about it sort of ruins everything about it.

Peace

God loves it when we recognize that He doesn't need our money---it's all His anyway, and we are grateful for Him being so generous as to allow us to keep 90% to use at our own discretion.

It is all for our betterment that He wants us to release our tight fists over our money.

No one is boasting about tithing---don't even go there. It is a spiritually discerned discipline and one that includes built-in promises of God. We can't have it better than that!

[garyarnold]

...we are grateful for Him being so generous as to allow us to keep 90% to use at our own discretion.

Sorry, but the 90% is also God's, and He never asked for 10% of your money or income.  It is ALL His.

That's the problem with so many tithers.  They think they can do what they want with the 90%.

God is MORE CONCERNED with what you do with the 90% than He is the 10%.  If you don't realize that, you've missed the whole teaching of finances in the New Testament.

I feel sorry for those who feel the 90% is to be used at your own discretion.  That is what I would call a lack of Biblical understanding.  You are the ones missing out on blessings.  May God show you the truth.

[Talking Donkey]

God is more generous than that.  Far more generous than that.  God allows us to keep it all, if that is what we want.  Here's is an example of someone that sold his farm.  Brought the mney to church, but kept a small part.  H gave beyond tithing.  Got killed anyway.  Notice all his money was declared by God to belong to Ananias.

Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

His sin was lying to impress people.  When we give to impress people, we blew it.

Gd only wants the money that we want to give him.  No more.

Peace

[garyarnold]

Maybe I should have said, They think they can do what they want with the 90% AND STILL PLEASE GOD.

We have control of 100% of our money.  God wants us to be good stewards of 100% of it, not 10%.

[Lively Stone]

Maybe I should have said, They think they can do what they want with the 90% AND STILL PLEASE GOD.

We have control of 100% of our money.  God wants us to be good stewards of 100% of it, not 10%.

Everything belongs to God---even our money. When we pay Him His 10%, He blesses the remaining 90%. That is good stewardship of His money.

[Lively Stone]

God is more generous than that.  Far more generous than that.  God allows us to keep it all, if that is what we want.  Here's is an example of someone that sold his farm.  Brought the mney to church, but kept a small part.  H gave beyond tithing.  Got killed anyway.  Notice all his money was declared by God to belong to Ananias.

Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

His sin was lying to impress people.  When we give to impress people, we blew it.

Gd only wants the money that we want to give him.  No more.

Peace

Do you know why Ananias and Sapphira were judged? Their gift was their own to give---they didn't have to give it. It was unconnected to a tithe. They could have kept 99% if they wanted and still blessed the church. Their lie was that they didn't keep any, even though they did and were within their rights to do so. Indeed, they wanted others to think they were more generous than they really were.

Tithing is not something people blab about doing---it is a private affair between God and the tither. He wants us to give, but He also is blessed by the tithe and He turns it around on the tither, promising protection from the enemy, and abundance of blessings---so much so that we cannot contain it.

[gospel]

1 Corinthian 16:1  Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

Notice, FOR THE SAINTS.  The collection was for the poor, not for some building, or salaries, etc.

For some, they may have given a tenth.  But tenth is not mentioned or inferred.

And notice in Matthew 23:23, Jesus did NOT say they should be tithing on their INCOME from their professions as teachers and lawyers.  Rather, the tithe came from the herbs - FOOD, and not from their income.

Now you're being a little extreme....

For how in the world can the Body of Christ be effective if it's struggling just to keep the lights on?

How can there be mission work in the community or the nations of the world unless there are finances 

How can Christians come to the aid of disaster victims unless there are finances

This is just common sense

If you don't want to tithe fine

and If you don't want to tithe in the church you attend, maybe you should find a church that God is using to advance His Kingdom, where you can see His Handiwork being accomplished ...good ground

I don't believe you will be cursed for not tithing

But I don't see where it ceased from being practiced either

In fact if you read Acts carefully it really seems that the believers probably went above and beyond the tithe

Point is the Body has work to do and in the real world that work requires finances

[garyarnold]

Everything belongs to God---even our money. When we pay Him His 10%, He blesses the remaining 90%. That is good stewardship of His money.

You keep saying that, but have no scripture to back it up.