Matthew 28:16-20

[Lively Stone]

I never have said that God can not give all gifts to this day just saying that they were for a purpose just as Jesus told the Apostles

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth Acts 1:8 (KJV)

and in some lands that purpose has been fulfilled or God has failed. Not all Gifts are needed and therefore no longer given to each and every person.

Please tell us what lands have already seen the purposes of God fulfilled, and please tell us where God has failed.

Obviously people have failed God by not jumping into that river and being baptized in power. These are the hindrances in the Body of Christ that we have to work doubly hard to overcome their complacency.

[yogi bear]

The church has been built it is now being added to and the words of God should be sufficient do you really still need signs to make you believe.

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 20:29-31 (KJV)

[yogi bear]

I never have said that God can not give all gifts to this day just saying that they were for a purpose just as Jesus told the Apostles

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth Acts 1:8 (KJV)

and in some lands that purpose has been fulfilled or God has failed. Not all Gifts are needed and therefore no longer given to each and every person.

Please tell us what lands have already seen the purposes of God fulfilled, and please tell us where God has failed.

Obviously people have failed God by not jumping into that river and being baptized in power. These are the hindrances in the Body of Christ that we have to work doubly hard to overcome their complacency.

this is prime reason that study can not be done on these forums. That is really a child of God show what Spiritual gift has been given you. Do you really want to act in this behavior if so it will do me no good to try and talk with you.

[yogi bear]

Are you saying that the Church is not here in the States?

[Lively Stone]

The church has been built it is now being added to and the words of God should be sufficient do you really still need signs to make you believe.

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 20:29-31 (KJV)

The Church of Jesus Christ is still being built---one living stone upon another (some are obviously not so lively!). It will be complete when Jesus comes for her---not before.

God is mighty and gracious to continue giving us many signs and wonders in this age.

[yogi bear]

It is established and we are adding to it not establishing it there is a difference. God did not fail to build his church that has been done he is adding to it not establishing it.

[Lively Stone]

It is established and we are adding to it not establishing it there is a difference. God did not fail to build his church that has been done he is adding to it not establishing it.

That is not Biblical.

[yogi bear]

It is established and we are adding to it not establishing it there is a difference. God did not fail to build his church that has been done he is adding to it not establishing it.

That is not Biblical.

If you can not understand that fundamental truth then we have nowhere to go you will not see the truth in anything if you can not see the truth in that. I just do not really know where else to go with you if you reject that fundamental truth. I am sorry but you need to go back to the milk and see what God has done.

[Joyfullee]

It is established and we are adding to it not establishing it there is a difference. God did not fail to build his church that has been done he is adding to it not establishing it.

What about the spiritual growth of each of those who have been added?  The Spiritual gifts that God gives to each member is for the purpose of spiritually growing each one of those members.

Eph 4:13  (UNTIL)   Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Blessings

[Joyfullee]

Yogi, are you an adherent of Dispensationalism? (If you don't mind my asking.)

Blessings

[Lively Stone]

It is established and we are adding to it not establishing it there is a difference. God did not fail to build his church that has been done he is adding to it not establishing it.

That is not Biblical.

If you can not understand that fundamental truth then we have nowhere to go you will not see the truth in anything if you can not see the truth in that. I just do not really know where else to go with you if you reject that fundamental truth. I am sorry but you need to go back to the milk and see what God has done.

Had the milk, and enjoying my steak, thanks!

[yogi bear]

No You are not listening you are just reading what I say and you are hearing what you want. I never said the Spirit does not give gifts today I never said that God can not give what he wishes.

What I said is the Spirit gives the gifts we need to spiritually grow each one of us and those members
We are given gifts but that does not mean we need the gifts that others got. I pointed you to many passages that explain why some were given such gifts that purpose has been fulfilled that is fact it is clearly told in the word.

You are not reading what I am posting or you just flat out refuse to look at what the word says.
You asked "are you an adherent of Dispensationalism" I do not even know what that is but a label you must be trying to put on me to avoid what the word says. GOD DID ESTABLISH HIS CHURCH  He did not fail in that quest he did establish it whether you wish to believe it or not. The accompanying signs does not need to be any longer to confirm we are to have faith. Why do we need the signs. We need other gifts now to further the growth no establish the church.

[Lively Stone]

Yogi~

Please show us where 'some' gifts are no longer needed. Why do you think the Church is not in need of every help Holy Spirit is offering us? Do you think the Church is mature and not in need of every single gift?

I believe you, like many, have misinterpreted scripture to suit perhaps a fear of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. Many believe that the marvelous power gifts given to the Apostles died out when they died. Not so. What the apostles had, the Lord passed on to enable men women and children alike from the first church on to the present. Nothing has changed! Sin still abounds and we are still serving the King as light and salt in the earth, and we need the gifts!

[yogi bear]

I have decided that we see things to far apart for me to continue in this discussion and and I by the guidance of the Spirit do not think if profitable for me to continue in this discourse so I will humbly bow out and just follow this in the shadows.

Thanks for giving me the chance to speak my peace on these matters and hope all will continue to study Gods gracious word. May God bless and be with you all as you continue in your study of his word.

[Lively Stone]

I have decided that we see things to far apart for me to continue in this discussion and and I by the guidance of the Spirit do not think if profitable for me to continue in this discourse so I will humbly bow out and just follow this in the shadows.

Thanks for giving me the chance to speak my peace on these matters and hope all will continue to study Gods gracious word. May God bless and be with you all as you continue in your study of his word.

I am sure the Spirit would want you to take a back seat and read this discourse for your sake, and I appreciate that.

[yogi bear]

Thank you I much appreciate your kind words

[P.F.]

There sure is a lot of haughtiness in this thread lately.  And what is even sadder is it is focused on who is superior than the other with respect to the Holy Spirit.

[Joyfullee]

No You are not listening you are just reading what I say and you are hearing what you want. I never said the Spirit does not give gifts today I never said that God can not give what he wishes.

You are mistaken.  I understand what you're saying, but do not agree with you.


What I said is the Spirit gives the gifts we need to spiritually grow each one of us and those members
We are given gifts but that does not mean we need the gifts that others got. I pointed you to many passages that explain why some were given such gifts that purpose has been fulfilled that is fact it is clearly told in the word.


We do not all get the same gifts, nor do we get them all.  But God can activate any gift for any person anytime He wants to, beyond the original gift/s given at the time of salvation.

God specifically gave gifts that were needed when He was starting His church, those gifts are still given today, because they are still needed.  Just as new members were added to the church at the beginning, they are still being added today.


You are not reading what I am posting or you just flat out refuse to look at what the word says.


I have read exactly what you have posted and I believe it is you that just flat out refuse to look at what God's Word actually states.


You asked "are you an adherent of Dispensationalism" I do not even know what that is but a label you must be trying to put on me to avoid what the word says.


The only reason I asked about Dispensationalism is because many who adhere to their beliefs carry the same misconceptions about God's Word as you do.  I do not put people in boxes.


GOD DID ESTABLISH HIS CHURCH  He did not fail in that quest he did establish it whether you wish to believe it or not. The accompanying signs does not need to be any longer to confirm we are to have faith. Why do we need the signs. We need other gifts now to further the growth no establish the church.

Yes, God did establish (to bring into existence, found) His church and is still building that very same church today and will continue to build until the day Jesus returns.  The gifts are given today to build and grow the members of the church. (for the same purpose as when it was being established)  WE don't need the signs, the signs are the evidence of the gift/s of the indwelling Holy Spirit as the church's individual members do the work that God has called each one to. That includes you.

Blessings

[Joyfullee]

Yogi~

Please show us where 'some' gifts are no longer needed. Why do you think the Church is not in need of every help Holy Spirit is offering us? Do you think the Church is mature and not in need of every single gift?

I believe you, like many, have misinterpreted scripture to suit perhaps a fear of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. Many believe that the marvelous power gifts given to the Apostles died out when they died. Not so. What the apostles had, the Lord passed on to enable men women and children alike from the first church on to the present. Nothing has changed! Sin still abounds and we are still serving the King as light and salt in the earth, and we need the gifts!

I got that too while I was writing my last post.

Blessings

[Lively Stone]

There sure is a lot of haughtiness in this thread lately.  And what is even sadder is it is focused on who is superior than the other with respect to the Holy Spirit.

That is a misapprehension of what is being said.

Rather than criticize those who bother to stick their necks out and stand up for the truth, why not enter in and help?

[P.F.]

There sure is a lot of haughtiness in this thread lately.  And what is even sadder is it is focused on who is superior than the other with respect to the Holy Spirit.

That is a misapprehension of what is being said.

Rather than criticize those who bother to stick their necks out and stand up for the truth, why not enter in and help?

It's spot on sadly.  Truth should be spoken in love.

[Lively Stone]

There sure is a lot of haughtiness in this thread lately.  And what is even sadder is it is focused on who is superior than the other with respect to the Holy Spirit.

That is a misapprehension of what is being said.

Rather than criticize those who bother to stick their necks out and stand up for the truth, why not enter in and help?

It's spot on sadly.  Truth should be spoken in love.

If there was no love, then I wouldn't care or bother to present what God says---or do you mean hearts and flowers, and toothache-y sugar talk?

[Jimmy]

Yogi~

Please show us where 'some' gifts are no longer needed. Why do you think the Church is not in need of every help Holy Spirit is offering us? Do you think the Church is mature and not in need of every single gift?

I believe you, like many, have misinterpreted scripture to suit perhaps a fear of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. Many believe that the marvelous power gifts given to the Apostles died out when they died. Not so. What the apostles had, the Lord passed on to enable men women and children alike from the first church on to the present. Nothing has changed! Sin still abounds and we are still serving the King as light and salt in the earth, and we need the gifts!

You have just presented the basis the Catholics cite for their authority of apostolic succession.  They are wrong too.

It is not yogi who has misinterpreted scripture.  Anyone who thinks that the Farewell Discourse of Jesus at the last supper is directed to them personally is way beyond the pale of acceptable interpretation.

The truth in your position is the last phrase in the last line above:

....we need the gifts!

Not God, not the church, you - you "need" the gifts even if you have to imagine them.

[Lively Stone]

Yogi~

Please show us where 'some' gifts are no longer needed. Why do you think the Church is not in need of every help Holy Spirit is offering us? Do you think the Church is mature and not in need of every single gift?

I believe you, like many, have misinterpreted scripture to suit perhaps a fear of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. Many believe that the marvelous power gifts given to the Apostles died out when they died. Not so. What the apostles had, the Lord passed on to enable men women and children alike from the first church on to the present. Nothing has changed! Sin still abounds and we are still serving the King as light and salt in the earth, and we need the gifts!

You have just presented the basis the Catholics cite for their authority of apostolic succession.  They are wrong too.

That is not true. The Catholic belief on apostolic succession is nothing like what the Lord has done for the Church.

It is not yogi who has misinterpreted scripture.  Anyone who thinks that the Farewell Discourse of Jesus at the last supper is directed to them personally is way beyond the pale of acceptable interpretation.

Actually, it is for us all.

The truth in your position is the last phrase in the last line above:

....we need the gifts!

Not God, not the church, you - you "need" the gifts even if you have to imagine them.

We all need them if we are to be effective workers for the Kingdom of God.

[Joyfullee]

1Cr 12:6   And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

Phl 2:13   For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

1Th 2:13   For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.


One cannot accomplish the work that God has given one without the effective working of the indwelling Holy Spirit through them; without that, one is only attempting to do what they think God wants of them and that would be through the flesh, the carnal nature....which is not of God.

Blessings

[Jimmy]

Yogi~

Please show us where 'some' gifts are no longer needed. Why do you think the Church is not in need of every help Holy Spirit is offering us? Do you think the Church is mature and not in need of every single gift?

I believe you, like many, have misinterpreted scripture to suit perhaps a fear of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. Many believe that the marvelous power gifts given to the Apostles died out when they died. Not so. What the apostles had, the Lord passed on to enable men women and children alike from the first church on to the present. Nothing has changed! Sin still abounds and we are still serving the King as light and salt in the earth, and we need the gifts!

You have just presented the basis the Catholics cite for their authority of apostolic succession.  They are wrong too.

That is not true. The Catholic belief on apostolic succession is nothing like what the Lord has done for the Church.

It is true.  The basis you cite for the reason you believe as you do is precisely the same reason they give for apostolic succession.

It is not yogi who has misinterpreted scripture.  Anyone who thinks that the Farewell Discourse of Jesus at the last supper is directed to them personally is way beyond the pale of acceptable interpretation.

Actually, it is for us all.

Yes, it is for us all.  But it is not, as you seem not to understand, about any of us.

The truth in your position is the last phrase in the last line above:

....we need the gifts!

Not God, not the church, you - you "need" the gifts even if you have to imagine them.

We all need them if we are to be effective workers for the Kingdom of God.

No we do not.  We have the Scriptures.  They are sufficient.  That is obvious since some much of Christendom does not adhere to your Pentecostal beliefs and alleged abilities.

[Jimmy]

1Cr 12:6   And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

Phl 2:13   For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

1Th 2:13   For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.


One cannot accomplish the work that God has given one without the effective working of the indwelling Holy Spirit through them; without that, one is only attempting to do what they think God wants of them and that would be through the flesh, the carnal nature....which is not of God.

Blessings

And therein is the problem.  The indwelling Holy Spirit has nothing to do with the gifts that you proclaim.  It was not the indwelling Holy Spirit with gave the disciples or anyone else the power to work signs, wonders and miracles.  The indwelling Holy Spirit is the promise to all who are saved.  It is the signature difference between salvation under the OT and salvation under the NT.

The gifts that were given were over and beyond the giving of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

[Lively Stone]

No we do not.  We have the Scriptures.  They are sufficient.  That is obvious since some much of Christendom does not adhere to your Pentecostal beliefs and alleged abilities.

The scriptures are sufficient, but unless you  experience the Rhema of God---the specific word to you, personally, you will be powerless to do what God has called you to do without hardship.

God's Rhema word and His anointing is what makes the word come alive personally and His anointing is what authorizes you to go and do what He calls you to do and achieve great success and without the hardship you would have if you had done things in your own strength.

Think of the pool of healing in which sick people would drop into when the Spirit stirred up the water---the first one in gets healed. Rhema works like that in our lives. The word of God is the pool, but when Holy Spirit stirs it up, and drops personal revelation into you, you've got something amazingly powerful from Him that can change your life and your direction and bless you with ministry and growth---and it will extend to affect other people's lives!

John 6:63
The Spirit alone gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words (RHEMA) I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

[Lively Stone]

It is true.  The basis you cite for the reason you believe as you do is precisely the same reason they give for apostolic succession.

That is false. Perhaps you need to bone up on Catholicism, but better than that---study the word more closely.

Yes, it is for us all.  But it is not, as you seem not to understand, about any of us.

No---it is about Jesus. You are choosing to misinterpret in this thread for argument's sake.

No we do not.  We have the Scriptures.  They are sufficient.  That is obvious since some much of Christendom does not adhere to your Pentecostal beliefs and alleged abilities.

God believes we do need the gifts. That is why He makes them available to us. Scriptures are sufficient for knowledge, but empowerment comes by Holy Spirit. Don't deny Him His ministry in the Body. That is a huge spiritual blunder.

FYI, for your pigeonholing pleasure: I am not Pentecostal.

[Joyfullee]

1Cr 12:6   And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

Phl 2:13   For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

1Th 2:13   For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.


One cannot accomplish the work that God has given one without the effective working of the indwelling Holy Spirit through them; without that, one is only attempting to do what they think God wants of them and that would be through the flesh, the carnal nature....which is not of God.

Blessings

And therein is the problem.  The indwelling Holy Spirit has nothing to do with the gifts that you proclaim.  It was not the indwelling Holy Spirit with gave the disciples or anyone else the power to work signs, wonders and miracles.  The indwelling Holy Spirit is the promise to all who are saved.  It is the signature difference between salvation under the OT and salvation under the NT.

The gifts that were given were over and beyond the giving of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 2

12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Ghost teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14  But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15  But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16  For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him?  But we have the mind of Christ.



You are missing out of so much of our Lord in your daily life, because you refuse the truth of God's very Word.

Everything that LivelyStone and I have attempted to share with you concerning the truth of God's Word, you brush off as foolishness.

Blessings

[Jimmy]

[Think of the pool of healing in which sick people would drop into when the Spirit stirred up the water---the first one in gets healed. Rhema works like that in our lives.

Rhema works like that?

[Jimmy]

1Cr 12:6   And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

Phl 2:13   For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

1Th 2:13   For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.


One cannot accomplish the work that God has given one without the effective working of the indwelling Holy Spirit through them; without that, one is only attempting to do what they think God wants of them and that would be through the flesh, the carnal nature....which is not of God.

Blessings

And therein is the problem.  The indwelling Holy Spirit has nothing to do with the gifts that you proclaim.  It was not the indwelling Holy Spirit with gave the disciples or anyone else the power to work signs, wonders and miracles.  The indwelling Holy Spirit is the promise to all who are saved.  It is the signature difference between salvation under the OT and salvation under the NT.

The gifts that were given were over and beyond the giving of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

1 Cor. 2

12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Ghost teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14  But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15  But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16  For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him?  But we have the mind of Christ.



You are missing out of so much of our Lord in your daily life, because you refuse the truth of God's very Word.

Everything that LivelyStone and I have attempted to share with you concerning the truth of God's Word, you brush off as foolishness.

Blessings

In Corithians 2, Paul was not talking about you are me.  He was presenting his authority and credentials as an apostle. You are not an apostle.

1Co 2:1  And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God.
1Co 2:2  For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
1Co 2:3  And I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling.
1Co 2:4  And my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5  that your faith should not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

How on earth do you guys think that you have the same authority as the apostles.  Unbelievable.

[Jimmy]

Everything that LivelyStone and I have attempted to share with you concerning the truth of God's Word, you brush off as foolishness.

Only because it is.  It is worse than foolishness.  It is a grotesque distortion of God's word.  Neither of you can figure out what of God;s word is for you or about you and what the difference is.  It is just that simple.  The entire Bible is for you.  But in fact not much of it is actually about you.  But you both seem to go through the Bible looking for things God said about others and if it suits you, you simply appropriate it to yourself and think it is God's word.  Foolishness indeed.

[Joyfullee]

Everything that LivelyStone and I have attempted to share with you concerning the truth of God's Word, you brush off as foolishness.

Only because it is.  It is worse than foolishness.  It is a grotesque distortion of God's word.  Neither of you can figure out what of God;s word is for you or about you and what the difference is.  It is just that simple.  The entire Bible is for you.  But in fact not much of it is actually about you.  But you both seem to go through the Bible looking for things God said about others and if it suits you, you simply appropriate it to yourself and think it is God's word.  Foolishness indeed.

1 Cor. 2

12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Ghost teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14  But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Blessings

[Jimmy]

Everything that LivelyStone and I have attempted to share with you concerning the truth of God's Word, you brush off as foolishness.

Only because it is.  It is worse than foolishness.  It is a grotesque distortion of God's word.  Neither of you can figure out what of God;s word is for you or about you and what the difference is.  It is just that simple.  The entire Bible is for you.  But in fact not much of it is actually about you.  But you both seem to go through the Bible looking for things God said about others and if it suits you, you simply appropriate it to yourself and think it is God's word.  Foolishness indeed.

1 Cor. 2

12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Ghost teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14  But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Blessings

As I noted above,

In Corithians 2, Paul was not talking about you are me.  He was presenting his authority and credentials as an apostle. You are not an apostle.

1Co 2:1  And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God.
1Co 2:2  For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
1Co 2:3  And I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling.
1Co 2:4  And my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5  that your faith should not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

How on earth do you guys think that you have the same authority as the apostles.  Unbelievable.