Is our understanding of the Trinity, correct?

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Oh I see.  I didn't see that it cut off and continued later.  My bad there.

But, if the Word WAS God, then how do you come to the conclusion that God created "another" god?

[Stosh]

But, if the Word WAS God, then how do you come to the conclusion that God created "another" god?

Good question.
In the book of Revelations chapter 3:14 Jesus says that he is the beginning of the creation of God. And since we know, or should know, that Jesus was the Word before becoming flesh man, and since it is recorded in the book of John that the Word was God, and was with God, then it should be apparent that God created another God to be with him. And with this knowledge we then see that since the Word created all other things whether in heaven or in earth, then the Word is the actual Creator God revealed in the old testament.

I can only speculate as to why the Eternal God needed another Creator God but it is possible that the Eternal Holy Spirit is to Pure and to Holy to come into direct contact with his sinful creation of flesh man and therefore it was necessary for him to create another Creator God that could be a mediator between the Holy Spirit and man.

If this is the first time you've heard this, then I know it can be confusing, but if you study the scriptures with this understanding then the scriptures will make more sense to you then they can with man's interpretation of the word.  For we are told in scripture that the word is not meant for any private interpretation.  And we are also told that the scriptures are spiritually discerned. And we are told that we are to compare spiritual things with spiritual things. And we are told that we need that no man teach us but that the Holy Spirit will teach us all things.  So then it is not by the wisdom of man that we can know the things of God but by God's Holy Spirit that is in us. Man can study the word for all eternity and never come to the truth in the word unless God reveals his truth to him through his Holy Spirit.  This is just the way it is.

Jas 1:5  If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jas 1:6  But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7  For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Jas 1:8  A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

[Insight]

An interesting debat
e.  But what I see here is the wisdom of man arguing with the wisdom of man trying to explain what is revealed only by the wisdom of God.

I am sure you will help us all to discover the Wisdom of God?

I have wrestled with this subject for quite some time and it wasn't until I gave up trying to understand of my own will and asked God to reveal his truth concerning this subject of the trinity to me that God revealed his truth to me. And I must say that the truth of who God is makes our understanding of the scriptures new and alive.  

A private revelation? Interesting!

Now before we can understand what God is revealing in his word, we first need to understand how to receive God's truth. And to understand this is to rely on God for understanding and not on the wisdom of man..  And herein is the problem with the teachings of man.  Man continually tries to interpret God's word instead of allowing God to interpret his own word for us.

This is truth...if one has the discipline to follow the Father without personal bias – lets see if you maintain the course shall we?

Now as stated in your posts, the word of God is not intended for any private interpretation.  And further more, the word says that the scriptures are spiritually discerned.  So then the question is, how do we spiritually discern the scriptures.  And the answer is, we allow the Holy Spirit that is within us to guide us into all truth by comparing scripture with scripture.

Are you able to show forth an understanding of the Holy Spirit being actually deposited in you? I would be interested in how you support your understanding.

If you believe one needs the Holy Spirit deposited within for an understanding of the Scriptures, then already your previous statement's  are flawed – buts let's see your reasoning first.

For we are told in 1 John 2:27 But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it has taught you, you shall abide in him.

27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Can you define the anointing?  You presume this passage supports your idea of the Holy Spirit being deposited in to a believer.

You see later in this passage John defines this anointing but I don't think you have grasped John's teaching.

I am keen to see how disciplined you are to adhering your own claims.

We shall see.

So then, you see that it is not by the wisdom of man but by the Spirit within us that we get understanding.  

Again your understanding needs further clarification.

I will wait before responding.

Also, note what is recorded for us in 1 Cor. 2:12-13. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Again defining exactly what has been received you may like to go back to Johns epistle for defining precisely what has been received.

Now as one of you stated, the word trinity is not found in the Bible.

Correct.

And for good reason...which I hope you will expound.

There is mentioned a Godhead but not a trinity.  Now,  keeping in mind,  as one of you also stated, the word God as used in the Bible is a title denoting the Creator.  So it can mean more than one spirit being.  So with that said, Let us delve into the word and learn about God.

So what does scripture tell us of God.  God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (Joh 4:24)   God is Holy,  "For I am the LORD your God: you shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and you shall be holy; for I am holy:".....(Lev 11:44)   God is Love,  "He that loves not knows not God; for God is love. (1Jn 4:8)   And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him. "(1Jn 4:16)  God is Righteous. "The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works." (Psa 145:17)   So, Who is God?  God is a loving, righteous, Holy Spirit.  God exist as a Holy Spirit.  This then is what our God exist as.  He is a Holy Spirit that is Loving and Righteous in all his ways. So if God is a Holy Spirit, then all aspects of God is Holy Spirit whether it is one two or three beings.

Good.

Now, we are told in scripture that the Word God is the first created of God.  Now any student of the word should know that the Word became Jesus the Christ in the flesh.  So in the book of Rev. we read, Rev  3:14  " And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; these things says the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

[Stosh]

I am sure you will help us all to discover the Wisdom of God?

I'm afraid I can't help you though because I can tell from the way you've worded your reply that you already know all there is to know of God. But I will reply to you anyway.

This is truth...if one has the discipline to follow the Father without personal bias – lets see if you maintain the course shall we?

An unnecessary bit of sarcasm

A private revelation? Interesting!

Yes, I believe it is.

The topic was the trinity, and I was explaining how to receive the truth in God's word.  There is so much confusion between the various teachings of the churches that I was attempting to enlighten you, but I see that you already know all things so my response to you would probably not bear any fruit.  But I will respond to your questions after you enlighten me with your understanding.

So with that said, you teach me since you know it all.  You tell me who God is.  You explain the Godhead to me.  You explain the Father The Son and the Holy Spirit. You explain how they can be one. You explain the anointing and the Holy Spirit to me.  Since you say that the Word wasn't created, you explain John 1:1-4 to me.  I'd be interested in your interpretation.  And while you're at it, explain to me the reason for the creation of man.  Let's see what your understanding of who the Word of God is. I already sense that you're going give me that time honored teaching that it is the Eternal Father.

Are you able to show forth an understanding of the Holy Spirit being actually deposited in you?

And you'll need to rephrase this question as I don't get "Are you able to show forth an understanding of the Holy Spirit being actually deposited in you?".  How am I to show forth an understanding? 

[Insight]

I am sure you will help us all to discover the Wisdom of God?

I'm afraid I can't help you though because I can tell from the way you've worded your reply that you already know all there is to know of God. But I will reply to you anyway.

This is truth...if one has the discipline to follow the Father without personal bias – lets see if you maintain the course shall we?

An unnecessary bit of sarcasm

A private revelation? Interesting!

Yes, I believe it is.

The topic was the trinity, and I was explaining how to receive the truth in God's word.  There is so much confusion between the various teachings of the churches that I was attempting to enlighten you, but I see that you already know all things so my response to you would probably not bear any fruit.  But I will respond to your questions after you enlighten me with your understanding.

So with that said, you teach me since you know it all.  You tell me who God is.  You explain the Godhead to me.  You explain the Father The Son and the Holy Spirit. You explain how they can be one. You explain the anointing and the Holy Spirit to me.  Since you say that the Word wasn't created, you explain John 1:1-4 to me.  I'd be interested in your interpretation.  And while you're at it, explain to me the reason for the creation of man.  Let's see what your understanding of who the Word of God is. I already sense that you're going give me that time honored teaching that it is the Eternal Father.

Are you able to show forth an understanding of the Holy Spirit being actually deposited in you?

And you'll need to rephrase this question as I don't get "Are you able to show forth an understanding of the Holy Spirit being actually deposited in you?".  How am I to show forth an understanding? 

I perceive you were easily offended. Also your reply lacked Scripture; it failed to deal with the Spiritual content of my post.

It appears you could not afford me the same respect as I paid you in dealing with your post.

Best we wait for a change of heart.

Insight

[bemark]

Chapter 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

Gen 1:1-3 (NKJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
John 1:1-5 (NKJV)

[Insight]

Chapter 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

Gen 1:1-3 (NKJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
John 1:1-5 (NKJV)

Good.

Earth = the natural creation revealing the 7 stages of spiritual development

Jesus Christ = the spiritual creation which is the fulfilment of the Man of God made in the image and after the likeness of the Elohim (angels)

Both Gen 1 and John 1 speak beautifully together once you understand Jesus is first-born of the Spirit. First man to be obedient unto the death and raised to glory not that he had the glory in person with God prior else it would not be inherited Glory but something else.

Insight

[Stosh]

Ok, I'll give you answers even though I know that you won't receive them because you already believe you have the truth.

I am sure you will help us all to discover the Wisdom of God?

I will if you are guided into all truth by the Spirit that is in you.  Unfortunately, I perceive that you are guided by your own wisdom and not by the Spirit of Truth.

A private revelation? Interesting!

God deals with each of us individually so we each receive his truth as a private revelation. I receive the truth by meditating on the word and allowing the Holy Spirit to bring to mind scriptures relevant to the subject I am meditating on.  

This is truth...if one has the discipline to follow the Father without personal bias – lets see if you maintain the course shall we?

I speak what the Spirit has shown me to be truth.  If you think that this is being bias, then I so be it.  I don't speak the things that man's wisdom has taught me, but what the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual things.  Where do you get your knowledge from?  Is it from man's teachings or from God.
God had his word written in such a way as to confound the wisdom of man.  Man with his worldly wisdom can spend an eternity trying to know the things of God and never attain to the truth for it will always be beyond his grasp.  For to know the things of God we have to rely completely on God for his revealing of the truth.

Are you able to show forth an understanding of the Holy Spirit being actually deposited in you? I would be interested in how you support your understanding.

If you believe one needs the Holy Spirit deposited within for an understanding of the Scriptures, then already your previous statement's  are flawed – buts let's see your reasoning first.

God has given each of us a portion of his Spirit.  This Holy Spirit is God himself.  He has taken of himself, the very Spiritual substance by which he exist, and he has put himself into us.  Ref. all of 1 Cor. chapter 2, In verse 12 it says we received the Spirit which is of God. 1 Cor. 3:16. Here it is revealed that the Spirit of God dwells in us. Jn, 7:37-39  Here it is revealed that we receive the Holy Spirit when we believe on, (or in), Christ. Jn 14:16-18, 15:26, 16:13-14, Acts 2:4, 2:17-18,  Rm. 8:1-15, Notice that in verse 9 it says that the Spirit of God dwells in us.  I could go on posting scripture but I think you can see that it is God's Spirit that is in those who have believed in Christ.

As a response to your second statement. God states many times in scripture that it is by his Spirit that we know the things of God.  He repeatedly states that we do not receive the knowledge of God by man's wisdom.  1Co 2:9  But as it is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10  But God has revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11  For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Joh 14:26  But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 16:13  Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
So as you can see, we know the things of God by the Spirit of God.  And this Spirit of God is God himself.  He has put a part of himself in us.

27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.  Mine

Can you define the anointing?  You presume this passage supports your idea of the Holy Spirit being deposited in to a believer.  

You see later in this passage John defines this anointing but I don't think you have grasped John's teaching.

I am keen to see how disciplined you are to adhering your own claims.

We shall see.

Yours

This anointing is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.  It is what is called God within us. And since the Father and the Son, (the Word), are both called God, then it is the Holy Spirit that is both the Father and the Son. They are both of the One Holy Spirit that is the Eternal God.  There are two beings that are called God but there is only one that is the Eternal.  The other is a created God.  This is what the scriptures teach.

So then, you see that it is not by the wisdom of man but by the Spirit within us that we get understanding.

Mine

Again your understanding needs further clarification.  I will wait before responding.

yours

All things are of God.  Even our ability to understand God's word is a gift of God.  He gives us this gift by putting his Spirit in us, and it is only by this Spirit within us that we are able to know the things of God.  We cannot with our own physical minds understand the things of God.  Man can obtain all of the worldly knowledge that mankind has acquired all generations and man still will not be able to know the things of God unless God himself reveals his truths to us through his Spirit.  

Again defining exactly what has been received you may like to go back to Johns epistle for defining precisely what has been received.

As noted earlier, the Holy Spirit is what has been received.  Each of us received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Now as one of you stated, the word trinity is not found in the Bible.

Mine

Correct.  And for good reason...which I hope you will expound.

yours

The word trinity isn't found in the Bible because there is no trinity.  There is but One Eternal Holy Spirit that is called God.  And yet there are two Holy Spirits that are called God.  The Eternal Holy Spirit created another Holy Spirit of and by his Spirit and gave him the same power and the authority to be a Creator God just as the Eternal is. But since the created can never be equal to the Creator, the created God is inferior to the Eternal God.  

You are close to understanding the work of the Father in the Son.

However you fail to understand the Word was not created for the Word has always been the Word or power of Yahweh on High.

The Word became Flesh.

So Jesus is as much a creation of God as Gen 1:1 which is why John is making the strong illusion to the creative works.  Whereas Gen 1:1 is the physical creative work John 1:1 is the spiritual creative work of course both having an Alpha and Omega or beginning and end – Yahweh as you will know has no beginning and no end!

Oh I'm more than close, I'm dead on.  You, on the other hand, are real good at putting forth the assumption that you have the truth but I have yet to see anything from you showing your knowledge of the truth.  The only thing I have seen from you so far is your criticism of my teachings.  But so be it.  

The Eternal has no beginning and no end.  Yahweh, the Word, has a beginning, he was created, but he has no end for the Eternal has given him the gift of immortality, and because of this gift of immortality, he is now eternal too because he will live forever.  You think the Word is the Eternal and I say that the Word is the first created being of the Eternal.  This Yahweh of the old testament is the Word but he is not the Eternal Holy Spirit. This is why you cannott understand what I am teaching.  It's because you believe what the wisdom of man teaches as to who God is, and I teach what the Holy Spirit has shown me in the word concerning God's truth. And it's not a private revelation to me, for God will reveal it to whomever will ask him for his truth if they will only lay aside their own wisdom and understanding and ask God for his truth.  

I get the sense that you think Jesus and the Word are two separate beings.  

Am I correct in assuming that you think the Word is the Eternal Father and that Jesus only came into existence with his physical birth?  If so then you are mistaken.  

Look what is recorded for us here in the book of Ephesians .  And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: (Eph 3:9)   Jesus could not have created all things if he didn't exist before his earthly existence.  And so he had to have existed as the Word.  

John 1:1-3 & Rev 1:8 presents you with a great problem.

These verses don't present me with any problem.  I understand them quite clearly.   Explanation of Jn 1:1-3
The Word as the created God was in the beginning with God.  So the Word who was to become the Son was in the beginning with the Eternal Father.  What beginning?  The beginning of the creation of God.  And the Word was God because the Eternal created him with all of attributes that the Father possessed.  And this Word is the Creator God of all other things by the will of the Eternal Father.  So the Eternal Father is the true Creator of all things because he created the Word, but the Word is the Creator God of all  things other than himself by the will and the command of the Father.  

And this teaching makes clear Gen 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

"And God said, Let us"  With this understanding of who God is, we can see that it was the Eternal God talking with the Word God.  

Explanation of Rev 1:8     I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus Christ is the first and the last.  He is the first created of God as the Spirit Word of God.  Now he is also the first created of God to be a Spirit Son of God.  The Word wasn't created as the Son of God, but as a Spirit being that was to become the Son of God.  And Jesus as the Son of God is the first flesh man to be raised from the dead to be with the Father.  Jesus is also the first and the last to have done the perfect will of the Father and to sit at the Fathers side.  All power and authority  in heaven and in earth being put under his control.  Now this Word, by giving up his divinity and being born as flesh man, and fulfilling the perfect will of the Father, earned the honor of becoming the Eternal's Son.

Again you have another problem with John 1:1-3 Rev 1:8 and Col 1:15

John and Rev already answered.  Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:  This word translated image is better translated "like or similar".  The definition given in the Strong's Concordance is,  G1504 εἰκών eikōn i-kone'
From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.  So, Son is like, the resemblance of, the Father.  And the word "creature" is defined in the Strong's
as,  G2937 κτίσις ktisis ktis'-is
From G2936; original formation (properly the act; by implication the thing, literally or figuratively): - building, creation, creature, ordinance.  So this verse is better translated Who is the likeness of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.  

Firstborn translates to a beginning which of course Yahweh is without.

Answered

If as you say Jesus is the firstborn of a creation (spiritual) and we also take part in that same birth to receive the same reward as he then Jesus is strikingly different than Him who gave him that spiritual birth (resurrection from the dead)

The flesh man Jesus was strikingly different in that he was flesh and blood.  But now he has returned to his Spirit existence so he again is like the Father.  

Joh 17:5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.  

As you can see, Jesus existed with the Father before the very creation of the world.

For is Jesus was given his very life, position at the right-side of the Father through submitting to death, resurrection and ascension...

Then the question must be asked "how many times did Jesus die?

[Insight]

Stosh

Due to the size of your post and out of respect for the effort you have invested I will spend some time answering your thoughts.

While I am doing this would you mind providing the following request:

It appears you do not believe in orthodox Trinitarian teaching.

Would you mind giving me a simple definition of the Godhead.

Here is mine

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Godhead

1. God - Yahweh (with His Power (i.e. Holy Spirit)
2. Christ

Over

3. Man
4.Woman

This may allow me to better understand where you are coming from.

Insight

[cs80918]

Stosh

Due to the size of your post and out of respect for the effort you have invested I will spend some time answering your thoughts.

While I am doing this would you mind providing the following request:

It appears you do not believe in orthodox Trinitarian teaching.

Would you mind giving me a simple definition of the Godhead.

Here is mine

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Godhead

1. God - Yahweh (with His Power (i.e. Holy Spirit)
2. Christ

Over

3. Man
4.Woman

This may allow me to better understand where you are coming from.

Insight

Is God the Holy Spirit?

How does God the father relate to the holy spirit?

[Insight]

Stosh

Due to the size of your post and out of respect for the effort you have invested I will spend some time answering your thoughts.

While I am doing this would you mind providing the following request:

It appears you do not believe in orthodox Trinitarian teaching.

Would you mind giving me a simple definition of the Godhead.

Here is mine

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Godhead

1. God - Yahweh (with His Power (i.e. Holy Spirit)
2. Christ

Over

3. Man
4.Woman

This may allow me to better understand where you are coming from.

Insight

Is God the Holy Spirit?

How does God the father relate to the holy spirit?

Look up Luke 1:35 and tell me what the Holy Spirit is?

Insight

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Is God the Holy Spirit?

How does God the father relate to the holy spirit?

Yes.  Roughly the same way the brain relates to the spinal cord.

[Insight]

Is God the Holy Spirit?

How does God the father relate to the holy spirit?

Yes.  Roughly the same way the brain relates to the spinal cord.

This answer is deeper than first imagined for its understanding is in the mind, thought and action.

Beautiful.

[Stosh]

The Godhead

1. The Eternal Holy Spirit  ( referred to by the title God )
2.  The Son ( Also referred to by the title God.)  ( First existed as the created Word, the beginning of the creation of God. )  ( Is the creator of all things other than himself) ( relinquished his divinity by the will of the Eternal Father in order to become the flesh man Jesus. )

[Insight]

The Godhead

1. The Eternal Holy Spirit  ( referred to by the title God )
2.  The Son ( Also referred to by the title God.)  ( First existed as the created Word, the beginning of the creation of God. )  ( Is the creator of all things other than himself) ( relinquished his divinity by the will of the Eternal Father in order to become the flesh man Jesus. )

Do you have a Bible verse(s) to support your Godhead?

[Stosh]

They are the only two gods mentioned in the Bible.  In order to be a member of a Godhead you would have to be a God.  God the Father and God the Son, the Godhead

[bemark]

Chapter 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

Gen 1:1-3 (NKJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
John 1:1-5 (NKJV)

Good.

Earth = the natural creation revealing the 7 stages of spiritual development

Jesus Christ = the spiritual creation which is the fulfilment of the Man of God made in the image and after the likeness of the Elohim (angels)

Both Gen 1 and John 1 speak beautifully together once you understand Jesus is first-born of the Spirit. First man to be obedient unto the death and raised to glory not that he had the glory in person with God prior else it would not be inherited Glory but something else.

Insight

That's interesting about the seven stages of spiritual development could you please expand this.

Stosh

Due to the size of your post and out of respect for the effort you have invested I will spend some time answering your thoughts.

While I am doing this would you mind providing the following request:

It appears you do not believe in orthodox Trinitarian teaching.

Would you mind giving me a simple definition of the Godhead.

Here is mine

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Godhead

1. God - Yahweh (with His Power (i.e. Holy Spirit)
2. Christ

Over

3. Man
4.Woman

This may allow me to better understand where you are coming from.

Insight

Is God the Holy Spirit?

How does God the father relate to the holy spirit?

Look up Luke 1:35 and tell me what the Holy Spirit is?

Insight

Insight have you ever felt the Holy Spirit come upon you and enter through you?Do you know what he feels like?

And also interesting about the seven stages about spiritual development in relationship to creation and could you please expand this

[Insight]

Chapter 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

Gen 1:1-3 (NKJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
John 1:1-5 (NKJV)

Good.

Earth = the natural creation revealing the 7 stages of spiritual development

Jesus Christ = the spiritual creation which is the fulfilment of the Man of God made in the image and after the likeness of the Elohim (angels)

Both Gen 1 and John 1 speak beautifully together once you understand Jesus is first-born of the Spirit. First man to be obedient unto the death and raised to glory not that he had the glory in person with God prior else it would not be inherited Glory but something else.

Insight

That's interesting about the seven stages of spiritual development could you please expand this.

Stosh

Due to the size of your post and out of respect for the effort you have invested I will spend some time answering your thoughts.

While I am doing this would you mind providing the following request:

It appears you do not believe in orthodox Trinitarian teaching.

Would you mind giving me a simple definition of the Godhead.

Here is mine

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Godhead

1. God - Yahweh (with His Power (i.e. Holy Spirit)
2. Christ

Over

3. Man
4.Woman

This may allow me to better understand where you are coming from.

Insight

Is God the Holy Spirit?

How does God the father relate to the holy spirit?

Look up Luke 1:35 and tell me what the Holy Spirit is?

Insight

Insight have you ever felt the Holy Spirit come upon you and enter through you?Do you know what he feels like?

And also interesting about the seven stages about spiritual development in relationship to creation and could you please expand this

Maybe you could start a thread and we can discuss the most important parable in all the Bible.

Gen 1 - The foundation chapter upon which the whole Bible stands.

Insight

[Insight]

They are the only two gods mentioned in the Bible.  In order to be a member of a Godhead you would have to be a God.  God the Father and God the Son, the Godhead

For in him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (Colossians 2:9)

Of course this is post resurrection in his exalted position.

THE GODHEAD - GOD is one, not three.

He has revealed Himself as the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ and of all who are related to Him in faith (Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29-32; 1 Cor. 8:5-6; Eph. 4:6; 1 Tim. 1:17; 2:5.

Yahweh is His Name and the Son is still subject to the Father to this very day.

If Christ was the Godhead singular there would be no reason for him to hand over the rulership and dominion of the earth to his Father.

For he (Yahweh) hath put all things under his (Jesus) feet. But when he (Yahweh) saith all things are put under him (Jesus), it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him (Jesus). And when all things shall be subdued unto him (Yahwhe), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (Yahweh) that put all things under him, that God (Yahweh) may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15:27-28)

Insight

[bemark]

Chapter 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

Gen 1:1-3 (NKJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
John 1:1-5 (NKJV)

Good.

Earth = the natural creation revealing the 7 stages of spiritual development

Jesus Christ = the spiritual creation which is the fulfilment of the Man of God made in the image and after the likeness of the Elohim (angels)

Both Gen 1 and John 1 speak beautifully together once you understand Jesus is first-born of the Spirit. First man to be obedient unto the death and raised to glory not that he had the glory in person with God prior else it would not be inherited Glory but something else.

Insight

That's interesting about the seven stages of spiritual development could you please expand this.

Stosh

Due to the size of your post and out of respect for the effort you have invested I will spend some time answering your thoughts.

While I am doing this would you mind providing the following request:

It appears you do not believe in orthodox Trinitarian teaching.

Would you mind giving me a simple definition of the Godhead.

Here is mine

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Godhead

1. God - Yahweh (with His Power (i.e. Holy Spirit)
2. Christ

Over

3. Man
4.Woman

This may allow me to better understand where you are coming from.

Insight

Is God the Holy Spirit?

How does God the father relate to the holy spirit?

Look up Luke 1:35 and tell me what the Holy Spirit is?

Insight

Insight have you ever felt the Holy Spirit come upon you and enter through you?Do you know what he feels like?

And also interesting about the seven stages about spiritual development in relationship to creation and could you please expand this

Maybe you could start a thread and we can discuss the most important parable in all the Bible.

Gen 1 - The foundation chapter upon which the whole Bible stands.

Insight

So its a yes or a no?

Even in Gen we have Spirit and word working together manifesting the Glory of God.

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist
Col 1:14-17 (KJV)

So Jesus coming forth from God as the word of  God,  speaking through the spirit of God.





Jesus wasn't made in a Image of any created thing.All things where made by him that includes angels

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Gen 1 - The foundation chapter upon which the whole Bible stands.

I think of it more like

Genesis 1 - the poem Moses decided to quote in the forward to the book he was writing.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Is God the Holy Spirit?

How does God the father relate to the holy spirit?

Yes.  Roughly the same way the brain relates to the spinal cord.

This answer is deeper than first imagined for its understanding is in the mind, thought and action.

Beautiful.

It's nice when someone understands what you're talking about, so thanks for that.

[Insight]

Jesus wasn't made in a Image of any created thing.

But when the right time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, subject to the law.

Whose image was he born in?

I believe his title is the Son of Man....

[bemark]

Jesus wasn't made in a Image of any created thing.

But when the right time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, subject to the law.

Whose image was he born in?

I believe his title is the Son of Man....

Insight i was talking about before any created thing was made in heaven or earth,  Jesus always was. He was flesh born through Mary by the impartation of the Holy spirit by the perfect will or government of God.The overseer.

[Insight]

Jesus wasn't made in a Image of any created thing.

But when the right time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, subject to the law.

Whose image was he born in?

I believe his title is the Son of Man....

Insight i was talking about before any created thing was made in heaven or earth,  Jesus always was. He was flesh born through Mary by the impartation of the Holy spirit by the perfect will or government of God.The overseer.

You aptly forget Jesus was the Son of Mary and the conception involved her lineage. Jesus was the son of Adam, Abraham & David.

I don't think you get that his very beginning was in the womb of Mary.

Jesus was born of a sinner, born with sin's flesh, having death reigning in his body.  You don't understand that when he died and tasted death he became unclean ( not a sinner ) but tainted by death and thus required cleansing.

How was Jesus cleansed of tasting death? – that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Now there were three ways a person became unclean?

1. Leprosy,

2. Issues - discharges from the body - i.e. an haemorrhage or running sore - related basically to the reproductive organs,

3. Contact with a dead body.

(The three forms of uncleanness are listed together in Num.5:1-4.)

The instructions regarding these forms of defilement were very explicit:

"Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath an issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead: Both male and female shall ye put out, without the camp shall ye put them; that they defile not their camps, in the midst whereof I dwell."

Where did Christ die Bemark?

[bemark]

We have gone over this before insight and not my view or yours is going to change, but one thing I love and it is to dig deeper into his word and I love the fact that you have encouraged me to do so.

I am more interested in what you have to offer throughout scripture not relating to the trinity.Like the sandal thing.That was awesome and I am waiting for more to come from you.Thanks insight

[Insight]

We have gone over this before insight and not my view or yours is going to change, but one thing I love and it is to dig deeper into his word and I love the fact that you have encouraged me to do so.

I am more interested in what you have to offer throughout scripture not relating to the trinity.Like the sandal thing.That was awesome and I am waiting for more to come from you.Thanks insight

Where did Jesus die Bemark?

[bemark]

Insight get to the point of where and why Jesus died at a certain place

[bemark]

I'm always hungry for fresh bread.

[Insight]

I am trying to lead you into the Scripture not just the passages and themes you find interesting but those which will assist in you knowledge leading to salvation.

We have established should a person come into contact with blood or something dead they became unclean.

1. Leprosy,

2. Issues - discharges from the body - i.e. an haemorrhage or running sore - related basically to the reproductive organs,

3. Contact with a dead body.

Jesus suffered from each of these and was crucified outside the camp.

For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. (Hebrews 13:11-13)

If Jesus was required to be sacrificed outside the camp?

The question of why has been put to you, but are you willing to listen?

We shall see.

[bemark]

I am trying to lead you into the Scripture not just the passages and themes you find interesting but those which will assist in you knowledge leading to salvation.

We have established should a person come into contact with blood or something dead they became unclean.

1. Leprosy,

2. Issues - discharges from the body - i.e. an haemorrhage or running sore - related basically to the reproductive organs,

3. Contact with a dead body.

Jesus suffered from each of these and was crucified outside the camp.

For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. (Hebrews 13:11-13)

If Jesus was required to be sacrificed outside the camp?

The question of why has been put to you, but are you willing to listen?

We shall see.

First of all we must establish what must a man do to be saved.You honestly believe  I am not ? a yes or no

[Insight]

The leper with leprosy in his forehead was required to cover his upper lip and cry out, "Unclean, unclean", as a warning to all who approached. The reason for the severity with which God regarded these three kinds of defilement was not simply medical, i.e., the fear of others contracting disease. So rigid were the laws regarding death, that even an open vessel in a tent where a man died was unclean, defiled. The reason for the severity of the regulations is seen in the fact that leprosy, issues and death all taught the divine abhorrence of sin, and its effect, death. It was for this reason that a man with any of these defilements was ostracised from the camp of Israel in which the holiness and righteousness of Yahweh were manifested in the sanctuary.

There are incidents in the life of the Master which blossom with meaning once the Laws of Uncleanness are understood. Consider the following:

1 Matt.18:1-4 - The leper - Jesus "put forth his hand and touched him". Why do you think that it is recorded specifically that Jesus touched the leper? In what position did such an act place Jesus in relation to the Mosaic Law? Imagine the astonishment of the priest when presented with a cleansed leper? There is obviously great point to the words of Jesus: "Go...shew thyself to the priest...for a testimony unto them." (Matt.8:4).

2. Matt.9:20-22 - The woman with an issue of blood - For twelve years the woman had suffered discomfort and separation from the Temple worship because of this issue. Matthew carefully recorded that the woman "touched the hem of his garment". What position did this place Jesus in regard to the Mosaic Law?

3. Matt.9:23-25 - The dead maid - Again the Inspired narrative recounts "he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose." Ceremonial defilement was technically contracted by Jesus through his deliberate contact with the dead.

Maybe you will start to see how impossible it is for Jesus to be Yahweh who is pure and holy and cannot look upon sin let alone be tainted by death.

Insight

[Insight]

The leper with leprosy in his forehead was required to cover his upper lip and cry out, "Unclean, unclean", as a warning to all who approached. The reason for the severity with which God regarded these three kinds of defilement was not simply medical, i.e., the fear of others contracting disease. So rigid were the laws regarding death, that even an open vessel in a tent where a man died was unclean, defiled. The reason for the severity of the regulations is seen in the fact that leprosy, issues and death all taught the divine abhorrence of sin, and its effect, death. It was for this reason that a man with any of these defilements was ostracised from the camp of Israel in which the holiness and righteousness of Yahweh were manifested in the sanctuary.

There are incidents in the life of the Master which blossom with meaning once the Laws of Uncleanness are understood. Consider the following:

1 Matt.18:1-4 - The leper - Jesus "put forth his hand and touched him". Why do you think that it is recorded specifically that Jesus touched the leper? In what position did such an act place Jesus in relation to the Mosaic Law? Imagine the astonishment of the priest when presented with a cleansed leper? There is obviously great point to the words of Jesus: "Go...shew thyself to the priest...for a testimony unto them." (Matt.8:4).

2. Matt.9:20-22 - The woman with an issue of blood - For twelve years the woman had suffered discomfort and separation from the Temple worship because of this issue. Matthew carefully recorded that the woman "touched the hem of his garment". What position did this place Jesus in regard to the Mosaic Law?

3. Matt.9:23-25 - The dead maid - Again the Inspired narrative recounts "he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose." Ceremonial defilement was technically contracted by Jesus through his deliberate contact with the dead.

Maybe you will start to see how impossible it is for Jesus to be Yahweh who is pure and holy and cannot look upon sin let alone be tainted by death.

Insight

Jesus represented each of these in his own death...

Can you tell me how?

[bemark]

So Jesus demonstrated the Kingdom of God over the Kingdom of darkness.Its about spiritual authority the Good news.

Healing the sick casting out devils etc etc

He is and always was above the laws or should i say the legal right of Satan as prince of the air.

Light invades darkness not the other way round.You cannot see the spirit for the flesh

[Insight]

So Jesus demonstrated the Kingdom of God over the Kingdom of darkness.Its about spiritual authority the Good news.

Healing the sick casting out devils etc etc

He is and always was above the laws or should i say the legal right of Satan as prince of the air.

Light invades darkness not the other way round.You cannot see the spirit for the flesh

Those reading this above post will be  their heads thinking what does this have to do with the Lord Jesus touching the unclean and being treated as unclean in his death?

This is what I consider to be a drawback.  You may feel intimidated by the study and rather than drawing closer to the record you feel the need to reinstate church doctrine that which you were taught as a child.

I understand.

I am trying to lead you into the Scripture not just the passages and themes you find interesting but those which will assist in you knowledge leading to salvation.

We have established should a person come into contact with blood or something dead they became unclean.

1. Leprosy,

2. Issues - discharges from the body - i.e. an haemorrhage or running sore - related basically to the reproductive organs,

3. Contact with a dead body.

Jesus suffered from each of these and was crucified outside the camp.

For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. (Hebrews 13:11-13)

If Jesus was required to be sacrificed outside the camp?

The question of why has been put to you, but are you willing to listen?

We shall see.

First of all we must establish what must a man do to be saved.You honestly believe  I am not ? a yes or no

How can you when clearly we are told...For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. (1 Corinthians 11:29)

So far it is clear you do not understand (discern) the Lord's body - which is why we are having this little chat.